"The [human] species will never learn to co-exist if given total freedom."

[YinYang]

Acceptance, well, what is there to say about that?

For me it's faith, it's letting go. When you are attached to certain outcomes, there is a kind of a muscle tension and uncomfortableness, which you are not even consciously aware of mostly, you just don't feel at ease or peaceful, and when you let go, the tension just vanishes. Acceptance is freedom. It's knowing that all is well.

Ra: We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next.

I see it very similarly to Parsons, on a grand scale. In an infinite universe, imagine Earth being one grain of sand on our beaches, giving the Creator a unique experience. There are infinite other grains of sand (planets), giving the Creator a unique experience as well. It's all play, creativity, experimentation... with a healthy dose of the element of surprise!

[YinYang]

The parable of the Chinese farmer teaches acceptance and surrender, to no longer look at things as either "good or bad" or "gain or loss", you just surrender to the isness or suchness of it all.

**************************

Once there was a Chinese farmer who worked his poor farm together with his son and their horse. When the horse ran off one day, neighbors came to say, “How unfortunate for you!” The farmer replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

When the horse returned, followed by a herd of wild horses, the neighbors gathered around and exclaimed, “What good luck for you!” The farmer stayed calm and replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

While trying to tame one of wild horses, the farmer’s son fell, and broke his leg. He had to rest up and couldn’t help with the farm chores. “How sad for you,” the neighbors cried. “Maybe yes, maybe no,” said the farmer.

Shortly thereafter, a neighboring army threatened the farmer’s village. All the young men in the village were drafted to fight the invaders. Many died. But the farmer’s son had been left out of the fighting because of his broken leg. People said to the farmer, “What a good thing your son couldn’t fight!” “Maybe yes, maybe no,” was all the farmer said.

**************************

Ra: The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest.

Accepting this gives peace of mind.

[Diana]

When you are attached to certain outcomes, there is a kind of a muscle tension and uncomfortableness, which you are not even consciously aware of mostly, you just don't feel at ease or peaceful, and when you let go, the tension just vanishes.

I agree with this. It also aligns with the wave/particle duality, where the particle function allows for one outcome (attachment to outcome; control), and the wave function allows for all possible outcomes (freedom; possibilities).

For me it's faith, it's letting go.

These are two different concepts. What is it you have faith in? Having faith is attachment to a belief that all is well or that things will come out "right," it is not letting go. Faith is a kind of displaced control, onto some force (OIC, God, the Universe) that is in control. Faith infers an emotional charge; there is no emotional charge in detachment.

Acceptance is freedom. It's knowing that all is well.

Again, two different concepts. Letting go of control, acceptance, detachment, does not mean all is well. One might accept a war of human construct killing and maiming people, animals, plant life, etc., but one does not have to think or believe it is "well." One can still dislike suffering—or let's say not align with suffering—but accept it as the way this realm operates at this point in time for whatever reasons.

[sjel]

From what I understand the veil impedes spiritual momentum - the thicker the veil, the greater the inertia in trying to start towards one polarity or the other.

Just to be clear, I think the veil is at least intended to enhance momentum by creating more intensely polarized experiences.  However, I think it simply doesn't achieve this perfectly in 100% of cases.  I always return to the mystery inherent in all this, the idea that all of this constitutes a foray into the unknown for the Creator.

Well it does enhance momentum - for those who are able to get off the ground. What I meant by inertia is that it's much harder for native Earth entities to begin polarizing in earnest, given the veil thickness. For those who have generous spiritual momentum already accumulated (generally wanderers), the inertia of already being in serious motion gives them an edge.

I'm picturing Juggernaut, from the Marvel universe. When he starts off running he's excruciatingly slow at first - like human speed. When he finally starts to pick up speed, fewer and fewer objects can stop him. At maximum speed, literally no physical object can slow him down. But it takes him a looong time of slow acceleration to get to that point.

[YinYang]

These are two different concepts. What is it you have faith in? Having faith is attachment to a belief that all is well or that things will come out "right," it is not letting go. Faith is a kind of displaced control, onto some force (OIC, God, the Universe) that is in control. Faith infers an emotional charge; there is no emotional charge in detachment.

For me there is a clear distinction between belief and faith, because, in general practise, belief has come to mean a state of mind which is almost the opposite of faith. Belief, as I use the word here, is the insistence that the truth is what one would wish it to be. The believer will open his mind to the truth on one condition that it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go.

Again, two different concepts. Letting go of control, acceptance, detachment, does not mean all is well. One might accept a war of human construct killing and maiming people, animals, plant life, etc., but one does not have to think or believe it is "well." One can still dislike suffering—or let's say not align with suffering—but accept it as the way this realm operates at this point in time for whatever reasons.

Acceptance is the result of faith to me, they are intertwined. Acceptance of the dark and the light. There is no loss, only evolution. No-one will be left behind, however many cycles it takes. Let them sleep, help is available for those who call.

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, the path your life-experience complex has taken. Consider the coincidences and odd circumstances by which one thing flowed to the next. Consider this well.

Each entity will receive the opportunity that each needs. This information source-beingness does not have uses in the life-experience complex of each of those among your peoples who seek. Thus the advertisement is general and not designed to indicate the searching out of any particular material, but only to suggest the noumenal aspect of the illusion.

[AnthroHeart]

Acceptance is the result of faith to me, they are intertwined. Acceptance of the dark and the light. There is no loss, only evolution. No-one will be left behind, however many cycles it takes. Let them sleep, help is available for those who call.

Ra made it sound like repeating third density is a bad thing. Or at least that's what I took from it.

[YinYang]

Ra: is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss.

[GentleReckoning]

 It's always darkest before the dawn, and those of Ra seem to describe polarization as often a very sudden phenomenon, especially sharp swings in polarity from one side to the other.

Perhaps this is the case. I try to focused on me and what I do, because in my opinion everything flows from that. Over the last few decades it has been difficult, however, to see how the world has progressed. This free will mandate for humans causes so much suffering to other life forms. I can easily accept humanity's plight given the collective consciousness—that is not to say I am not saddened by human suffering. But the cruelty and harm done intentionally and because of disconnect and unawareness to other life forms including the planet is hard to bear. Don't get me wrong—I don't dwell on this or even focus on it for any length of time, but there it is as a fact.

There are no excuses, absolutely no excuses!
We know enough to get started seriously.

Everything that is not healed in us we continue to spread over the planet.
The violence we experienced, the hurt and so on, we continuously spread it all over the place and aret even aware of it.
Like the test of humanity we are neither really connected to the earth plane nor are we really connected to the "spirit world".
And i am askingeach of you:
How can you expect other people to heal, to evolve, to chamge if you refuse to take the effort to heal and grow?

I agree with this. We must look within ourselves for healing. We must be courageous to do it. But I don't think there is anything more worthwhile in this life.

And I do think this free will idea can be an excuse for self-indulgence, and not to courageously look at self squarely and honestly. Intellectually, it's easy to say, free will allows for the experiential process to unfold fully. And yet, when does one wake up and make conscious choices that derive from compassion for all, not just self? In 4th density, does anyone imagine they will be doing other beings harm unnecessarily?

For example, when does a person stop eating meat that comes from torture and slavery? I know there will be rolling of eyes from members because Diana has brought up the meat-eating thing again—and it is but one (though huge and terrible) example. But we as humans continue to pillage this planet and the life here for our selfish reasons. So as we awaken, and polarize to STO, I agree with Agua that we must heal ourselves. Because if we don't, we will be unconsciously operating from triggers, and/or operating from a brainwashed position derived from societal propaganda, and not operating from clarity.

If we desire this world to be a more beautiful place, we must be that ourselves. As Gandhi said: Be the change you want to see in the world. Accepting and loving the way things are is not the same as joining in with everything just for the experience. At some point in evolution one makes conscious choices.

You kind of answer your own question. If humans are not beautiful, then they affect reality in such a way that beauty becomes rarer and rarer. If humans act in a way that is beautiful, reality becomes beautiful. This is more a commentary on those that are in 'control', than it is a reflection of those that labor under the illusions they perpetuate...

Beauty is by it's very nature somewhat fragile, and is easily harmed by those that are so removed from the beauty in themselves that they feel they must capture beauty for themselves.

[rva_jeremy]

What I meant by inertia is that it's much harder for native Earth entities to begin polarizing in earnest, given the veil thickness

I just want to make sure I'm hearing your point accurately, sjel--sorry if this is tedious. The situation you're describing sounds exactly like the pre-veil situation those of Ra describe. I mean, I agree with you that it's relatively easy to stay unpolarized, but it sounds like before the veil this situation prevailed much more completely. The sense I get from those of Ra is that, however long we're taking in third density, however many cycles we're repeating, it took folks before the veil much longer.

I think maybe in one sense I can see your point with respect to inertia, narrowly defined, and if this is what you meant from the beginning I apologize. Once you begin to polarize, events and experiences in our veiled condition seem to move one along, but it's quite an act to start that rock rolling. My intuition about the unveiled third density experience is that such inertia was not really achievable even once one started polarizing; since everything is seen as it really is and everything is completely chosen, there's no mysterious catalytic influx to further push you along, to make you go outside your comfort zone and put one's choice to the test.

[Diana]

But we as humans continue to pillage this planet and the life here for our selfish reasons. So as we awaken, and polarize to STO, I agree with Agua that we must heal ourselves. Because if we don't, we will be unconsciously operating from triggers, and/or operating from a brainwashed position derived from societal propaganda, and not operating from clarity.

If we desire this world to be a more beautiful place, we must be that ourselves. As Gandhi said: Be the change you want to see in the world. Accepting and loving the way things are is not the same as joining in with everything just for the experience. At some point in evolution one makes conscious choices.

You kind of answer your own question. If humans are not beautiful, then they affect reality in such a way that beauty becomes rarer and rarer. If humans act in a way that is beautiful, reality becomes beautiful. This is more a commentary on those that are in 'control', than it is a reflection of those that labor under the illusions they perpetuate...

Beauty is by it's very nature somewhat fragile, and is easily harmed by those that are so removed from the beauty in themselves that they feel they must capture beauty for themselves.

I wasn't talking about humans being beautiful, I was talking about humans having compassion and awareness. Because of technology and digital media, humans have every opportunity to be informed. If one is informed, for example, of the extent of starvation in the world, or the suffering of laboratory animals, one now has information that can open one's heart to others.

When I mentioned the world being a beautiful place, I meant a world where we all (humans, animals, plants, the planet, etc.) live in harmony. The glitch in this idea is, of course, humans. I don't mean to have a lack of compassion for humans—it is obviously difficult to be here, and the nature of this existence is what it is (though I do not purport to "know" anything).

Acceptance is the result of faith to me, they are intertwined. Acceptance of the dark and the light. There is no loss, only evolution. No-one will be left behind, however many cycles it takes. Let them sleep, help is available for those who call.

Though we are conversing within a particular subject in this thread, I rarely see references to all life deserving compassion. It's usually just humans. We live on a planet, a being, without whom we couldn't exist in physicality. This opportunity allows us to incarnate, evolve, serve, so it goes way beyond physical. And all the nonhuman life on the planet—what about them? I mean it all including hated species such as insects and rats and viruses. It's all at the mercy of humans. Members here have suggested that the lower life forms serve us by suffering. Perhaps this is true. But does that make it okay? Would anyone here want this to continue? To say all is well because of the dance of light and dark works pretty well when one takes into consideration only humans, who have choice.

We are all one does not mean just humans are all one. When there is war, it's not just humans who suffer. At least humans can attend each others' wounds from various biological and explosive weaponry. Has anyone thought about the wounded animals? The trees?

Jeesh, sometimes I'm a real downer.

[sjel]

Once you begin to polarize, events and experiences in our veiled condition seem to move one along, but it's quite an act to start that rock rolling. My intuition about the unveiled third density experience is that such inertia was not really achievable even once one started polarizing; since everything is seen as it really is and everything is completely chosen, there's no mysterious catalytic influx to further push you along, to make you go outside your comfort zone and put one's choice to the test.

Yeah, this is what I mean. It's really hard to get going, unnaturally hard compared to most post-veil worlds, but once you do, you build up a massive momentum that reaches a strength unheard of.

Interesting connection between pre-veil and post-veil inertia. That totally makes sense, and I didn't think of that. So perhaps what we're heading towards as experimenters is a veil whose initial, starting resistance is equal to that of the pre-veil worlds, but that doesn't completely impede spiritual growth. Maybe a perfectly balanced veil, however that would look.

In a sense, a very thick veil might actually approach the conditions, evolutionarily speaking, that existed pre-veil! Albeit with widespread negative confusion instead of harmonious unpolarization.

[flofrog]

But we as humans continue to pillage this planet and the life here for our selfish reasons. So as we awaken, and polarize to STO, I agree with Agua that we must heal ourselves. Because if we don't, we will be unconsciously operating from triggers, and/or operating from a brainwashed position derived from societal propaganda, and not operating from clarity.

If we desire this world to be a more beautiful place, we must be that ourselves. As Gandhi said: Be the change you want to see in the world. Accepting and loving the way things are is not the same as joining in with everything just for the experience. At some point in evolution one makes conscious choices.

You kind of answer your own question. If humans are not beautiful, then they affect reality in such a way that beauty becomes rarer and rarer. If humans act in a way that is beautiful, reality becomes beautiful. This is more a commentary on those that are in 'control', than it is a reflection of those that labor under the illusions they perpetuate...

Beauty is by it's very nature somewhat fragile, and is easily harmed by those that are so removed from the beauty in themselves that they feel they must capture beauty for themselves.

I wasn't talking about humans being beautiful, I was talking about humans having compassion and awareness. Because of technology and digital media, humans have every opportunity to be informed. If one is informed, for example, of the extent of starvation in the world, or the suffering of laboratory animals, one now has information that can open one's heart to others.

When I mentioned the world being a beautiful place, I meant a world where we all (humans, animals, plants, the planet, etc.) live in harmony. The glitch in this idea is, of course, humans. I don't mean to have a lack of compassion for humans—it is obviously difficult to be here, and the nature of this existence is what it is (though I do not purport to "know" anything).

Acceptance is the result of faith to me, they are intertwined. Acceptance of the dark and the light. There is no loss, only evolution. No-one will be left behind, however many cycles it takes. Let them sleep, help is available for those who call.

Though we are conversing within a particular subject in this thread, I rarely see references to all life deserving compassion. It's usually just humans. We live on a planet, a being, without whom we couldn't exist in physicality. This opportunity allows us to incarnate, evolve, serve, so it goes way beyond physical. And all the nonhuman life on the planet—what about them? I mean it all including hated species such as insects and rats and viruses. It's all at the mercy of humans. Members here have suggested that the lower life forms serve us by suffering. Perhaps this is true. But does that make it okay? Would anyone here want this to continue? To say all is well because of the dance of light and dark works pretty well when one takes into consideration only humans, who have choice.

We are all one does not mean just humans are all one. When there is war, it's not just humans who suffer. At least humans can attend each others' wounds from various biological and explosive weaponry. Has anyone thought about the wounded animals? The trees?

Jeesh, sometimes I'm a real downer.

lol, Diana, I don't think you are a downer today ! It is difficult today not to feel that every bird, cricket, pig, trees are not in fact part of us completely, we just feel that intuitively, and that inherent harmony with them, which is why any violent act happening seem so senseless and out of whack.

[YinYang]

Though we are conversing within a particular subject in this thread, I rarely see references to all life deserving compassion. It's usually just humans. We live on a planet, a being, without whom we couldn't exist in physicality. This opportunity allows us to incarnate, evolve, serve, so it goes way beyond physical. And all the nonhuman life on the planet—what about them? I mean it all including hated species such as insects and rats and viruses. It's all at the mercy of humans. Members here have suggested that the lower life forms serve us by suffering. Perhaps this is true. But does that make it okay? Would anyone here want this to continue? To say all is well because of the dance of light and dark works pretty well when one takes into consideration only humans, who have choice.

We are all one does not mean just humans are all one. When there is war, it's not just humans who suffer. At least humans can attend each others' wounds from various biological and explosive weaponry. Has anyone thought about the wounded animals? The trees?

Jeesh, sometimes I'm a real downer.

I don't think you're a downer, and I think your sentiments are shared by every empath on the planet, which I believe is the majority.

Questioner: Can you tell me why the Earth will be fourth-density positive instead of fourth-density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

I'm a huge animal lover, and lover of nature. I have unfollowed every one of my friends who share animal cruelty stuff of Facebook on a regular basis, simply because I just cannot look at it... I love insects too, even spiders. When one of those nice big ones, that is the size of your hand, decides to share our humble abode with us, I always catch it and throw it outside - and I am PETRIFIED of spiders.

It has taken me some time to get to this point, where I accept all the "ugliness" of this world. It has given me peace of mind. Sometimes I still fall back in the old ways, and get all riled up by something I witness or see in the news...  I have been following Ra's advice about internalising our polarity, starting with myself, my dark and my light. You become more accepting of the dark in others, when you have faced your own darkness, with as much honesty as you can muster.

At some point in your evolution in earlier lifetimes (or this one) you might have done some really atrocious things. Perhaps the majority of earthlings are at an early stage of their 3rd density evolution, which is okay. Allow them their evolution, sow the seed and walk away, without attachment to the outcome.

We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses.

- Carl Jung

Acceptance transforms people, it's love, and love liberates (I'm quick to talk the talk! :-) Still learning to walk the walk). We also know that earth will become 4th density positive, which gives great comfort, to me at least. It could have gone the other way...

As for eating meat, I shared this in the meat thread many moons ago...

[Diana]

I don't think you're a downer, and I think your sentiments are shared by every empath on the planet, which I believe is the majority.

If you are saying the majority of people are empathic, that may be true, but most certainly don't know it or have not gotten connected to it yet. It lies in potential only, or at least, that is what I observe.

I'm a huge animal lover, and lover of nature. I have unfollowed every one of my friends who share animal cruelty stuff of Facebook on a regular basis, simply because I just cannot look at it... I love insects too, even spiders. When one of those nice big ones, that is the size of your hand, decides to share our humble abode with us, I always catch it and throw it outside - and I am PETRIFIED of spiders.

  

If you actually "throw" it, which may have been metaphorical, just know that they break easily. The way I do it is carefully get a large glass over the insect or get it to crawl into it, slide a piece of mail under the glass, upend the glass, carry it outside and set the glass down so the insect/spider can crawl out. 

It has taken me some time to get to this point, where I accept all the "ugliness" of this world. It has given me peace of mind. Sometimes I still fall back in the old ways, and get all riled up by something I witness or see in the news...  I have been following Ra's advice about internalising our polarity, starting with myself, my dark and my light. You become more accepting of the dark in others, when you have faced your own darkness, with as much honesty as you can muster.

I accept this world. I just don't resonate with it. I agree with you that facing your own darkness allows for acceptance of the darkness of in others.

At some point in your evolution in earlier lifetimes (or this one) you might have done some really atrocious things.

Yes this is a possibility. But though I have thought of this, it doesn't really fit for many reasons. Of course, as we evolve, it is likely as Ra said that we experience everything. But for me, it's that I have empathy for all life, not just humans. My grandfather was Iroquois, so perhaps I have it in my genetic line.

Perhaps the majority of earthlings are at an early stage of their 3rd density evolution, which is okay.

I agree that a lot of humanity seems in general to be early stage 3rd still—closer to herd (animal) mentality—though it gets confusing with our level of technology.

Acceptance transforms people, it's love, and love liberates (I'm quick to talk the talk! :-) Still learning to walk the walk). We also know that earth will become 4th density positive, which gives great comfort, to me at least. It could have gone the other way…

You may know that "Earth will become 4th density positive," but I only have working theories. In any case, I accept whatever happens. That does not mean, however, that I don't have a vision of a harmonious existence.

I regret to announce that I am not there yet, I am still a happy meat eater, but I have come across this "refrain from this" and "refrain from that" topic from many mystical authors over the years, and they all say it just doesn't work like that.

You mentioned that you unfriend people on FB for posting animal cruelty. I am just curious as to how you can be a happy meat eater. This is not a judgment. I am genuinely curious, because this gets to the heart of my confusion as to how people can stay disconnected when the information is widely available. I can't understand how you can take pity on a spider but not a cow, fish, or chicken.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear your perspective on this subject.

[Jim Kent +]

You mentioned that you unfriend people on FB for posting animal cruelty. I am just curious as to how you can be a happy meat eater. This is not a judgment. I am genuinely curious, because this gets to the heart of my confusion as to how people can stay disconnected when the information is widely available. I can't understand how you can take pity on a spider but not a cow, fish, or chicken. 


If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear your perspective on this subject.

 

Hi Diana,
 
I cannot and won't speak for anyone else, but as a meat eater, I'd like to chip in and answer your question.
 
I've been a "pantheist" ( let's call it ) for 30 years, that is I believe that every life-form is inhabited by a piece of The Creator, animal and plant.
 
Because of my life-long bias towards Spirituality, the Spiritual aspect of a combined life-form i.e. 2nd and 3rd density Mind / Body / Spirit complexes incarnate in physical life-forms, is far more important to me than the physical host of that Soul.
 
Because of this, the wishes of that Soul, whether it be incarnate in an animal or plant is of equal import to me personally than any considerations of the objective or subjective suffering of farm animals.
 
In my opinion though this in no way excuses or justifies any unnecessary mistreatment of farm-animals including the very existence of factory-farms.
 
I would personally prefer to not have to take the life of any life-form, plant or animal, in order to exist, but I have to eat and to me, ceasing the incarnation of a Soul inhabiting a plant in order to feed is no less ethically significant that taking the life of an animal to feed.
 
And in all honesty, I'm too selfish and lazy to give up eating vegetables and meat but I can maintain my positive polarity whilst still eating meat.
 
I believe that a plant can suffer just as much an animal and has as much right to exist on this planet. An animal can feed many people for many meals, but it often takes many plants to create a single meal.
 
I have often heard the argument from anti-meat-eaters ( not that I'm calling you one of those! ) that eating meat is immoral because it is unnecessary. I would respond to this by asking why you need to use toilet-paper? Billions of contemporary humans do without toilet paper, and so it is clearly unnecessary!
 
For previously mentioned reasons the tree that was killed to wipe your arse has as much right to life on this planet as the pig in your bacon sandwich!    
 
As one of my guides said to me last year whilst considering the ethics of dietary choices: "consumption of any life-form involves suffering"
 
Jim

[rva_jeremy]

There's a tension between, on the one hand, lessening the net suffering in the world, and on the other hand, absolving yourself of participation in the suffering. I'm not sure those are equal positions, but they seem to be conflated often. The latter position too often is coopted into extant institutions that perpetuate suffering, whereas the former position requires real structural change that seems beyond anybody's ability. It's kind of like the folks that harp on people to drive less, when private cars are a drop in the bucket on emissions compared to industrial pollution--it almost seems like the personal activism is a way to deter real political action that could make a difference.

[YinYang]

If you are saying the majority of people are empathic, that may be true, but most certainly don't know it or have not gotten connected to it yet. It lies in potential only, or at least, that is what I observe.

It's interesting that you say this, because it hasn't been my observation. The vast majority of people I encounter, possess empathy. We live in a world pitting us against one another, the way of Earth is separation. The system is set up on the methodology of competition, and yet somehow, we still manage to keep our humanity amidst it all...

If you actually "throw" it, which may have been metaphorical, just know that they break easily. The way I do it is carefully get a large glass over the insect or get it to crawl into it, slide a piece of mail under the glass, upend the glass, carry it outside and set the glass down so the insect/spider can crawl out. 

When I was younger, I would throw it is far as I could, and then I would cut a line back to the house as quickly as my legs could carry me, usually screaming! Lol! Now what I do, is I put it down, and then I use a broomstick to topple the bin over, still vacating the spot in a bit of a hurry! I'm not sure we are speaking of the same mommas   , a glass would be too small, there is a risk of squashing its legs. I use these regular paper bins that you would put in an office, and I slide cardboard underneath. They also don't usually sit there peacefully waiting for you to put the bin over them, when they see you coming closer, it sometimes turns into havoc. The worst thing that can possibly happen, is if they cut a line for the curtain, and hide in there somewhere, or they go sit in the corner, and then you're stuck, because you need them on a flat surface.

Oh the tales I can tell... I was at this barbeque once, and we were all sitting outside by the fire, and we heard screaming from the kitchen. We all jumped up and made our way to the kitchen, and there it sat, the biggest one I've ever seen. Then they were going to kill it, and I said "NO!, I'll catch it!". My one friend's mother was particularly annoying in that situation, at some point she yelled "what's wrong with the child?!?" Lol! I couldn't believe my ears...

I agree that a lot of humanity seems in general to be early stage 3rd still—closer to herd (animal) mentality—though it gets confusing with our level of technology.

Not really, Atlantis achieved the highest level of technological prowess that we know of in our current 3rd density cycle, and look what happened there in the end...

You mentioned that you unfriend people on FB for posting animal cruelty. I am just curious as to how you can be a happy meat eater. This is not a judgment. I am genuinely curious, because this gets to the heart of my confusion as to how people can stay disconnected when the information is widely available. I can't understand how you can take pity on a spider but not a cow, fish, or chicken.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear your perspective on this subject.

I don't know why I don't see the eating of meat as wrong. The supermarket where I buy my meat, says they only sell ethically sourced meat.

Maybe I'm deluding myself... I did buy the book Eating Animals recently, maybe I'll change my view on it after I've read it...

At this point, all I can say is I simply don't know about this one. I have never known any vegetarians personally, braai is a strong part of our culture. We call barbeque "braai" (all our races), and we even have a National Braai Day once a year. When you meet new people, you say to them "come braai with us", not "come over for a drink", or "let's get together"... "let's braai".

Maybe it is just such a part of us, that we never questioned it. I don't know...

[Fuse]

I don't know why I don't see the eating of meat as wrong. The supermarket where I buy my meat, says they only sell ethically sourced meat.

Maybe I'm deluding myself... I did buy the book Eating Animals recently, maybe I'll change my view on it after I've read it...

At this point, all I can say is I simply don't know about this one. I have never known any vegetarians personally, braai is a strong part of our culture. We call barbeque "braai" (all our races), and we even have a National Braai Day once a year. When you meet new people, you say to them "come braai with us", not "come over for a drink", or "let's get together"... "let's braai".

Maybe it is just such a part of us, that we never questioned it. I don't know...

I live in one of the United States' barbecue capitals (Kansas City). It's a passion here, often a way of life. I loved it so much that I got really good at smoking and grilling meats. So delicious.

But I don't think I can eat meat anymore. Weirdly, for me, it has not been an intellectual concern at all. I have been academically aware of the massive suffering caused by factory farming and industrial food for decades, but that never gave me pause when it came to eating organic, ethically sourced meat from animals that hopefully weren't enduring horrific conditions.

Instead, as my spirituality is spiraling positive, it seems like eating meat serves as a drag on my progress. Most of the time the slowdown isn't traumatic, just more like being grounded back to an unpolarized state, but there have been a few times over the last six months where I tasted a piece of meat (usually something my wife had ordered) and something was horrifyingly off with it. The worst was a piece of steak that made me instantly nauseated, but a weird kind of nauseated that I've never felt before, like it came out of my mind more than my stomach. I was chewing this piece of meat, and could tell quite well that there was nothing wrong with it in the traditional sense. I couldn't taste or smell any decay, everything seemed perfectly normal about it, but the instant it hit my mouth, I could sense the wrongness of it, and somehow, as I swallowed it, I knew that this cow had died in fear and pain. It really was kind of horrifying.

I don't think eating meat is a spiritual dealbreaker or anything like that. Jesus shared fish he cooked with his disciples after he resurrected, after all, and the Buddha wasn't a vegetarian and didn't teach vegetarianism. Further, there is a danger, for changing one's diet for the wrong reasons can serve as a distraction to one's spiritual progress, if you start deciding that you're right and every one else needs to be corrected. One can begin to substitute that shallow, surface level change for the real soul level growth one needs to be undertaking, and turn vegetarianism into an idolatrous "Way," rather than a simple dietary choice. (I was thinking of some vegan acquaintances when I wrote this, just an FYI, this isn't aimed at Diana or anyone else here.)

Looking ahead a thousand years, to an Earth inhabited by a fourth density social memory complex...do we really foresee that this enlightened fourth density civilization, in which the vibrational state of the Earth has polarized sufficiently for fifth and sixth density entities to start visiting in the "flesh," will achieve sustenance through the destruction of second density creatures? According to most of the channeled sources I've encountered on this topic, most positively polarized species in the universe do not destroy second density (or other) entities to sustain themselves. They eat the freely offered fruits of second density entities who have incarnated to provide this service. They would never artificially end that service in order to eat the entity itself.

The Jain are really the only people on this planet who pursue that kind of diet. Their dietary traditions are a fascinating study with fifteen hundred years of results to analyze.

[Diana]

Instead, as my spirituality is spiraling positive, it seems like eating meat serves as a drag on my progress. Most of the time the slowdown isn't traumatic, just more like being grounded back to an unpolarized state, but there have been a few times over the last six months where I tasted a piece of meat (usually something my wife had ordered) and something was horrifyingly off with it. The worst was a piece of steak that made me instantly nauseated, but a weird kind of nauseated that I've never felt before, like it came out of my mind more than my stomach. I was chewing this piece of meat, and could tell quite well that there was nothing wrong with it in the traditional sense. I couldn't taste or smell any decay, everything seemed perfectly normal about it, but the instant it hit my mouth, I could sense the wrongness of it, and somehow, as I swallowed it, I knew that this cow had died in fear and pain. It really was kind of horrifying.

I understand this completely and have experienced similar things.

I don't think eating meat is a spiritual dealbreaker or anything like that. Jesus shared fish he cooked with his disciples after he resurrected, after all, and the Buddha wasn't a vegetarian and didn't teach vegetarianism. Further, there is a danger, for changing one's diet for the wrong reasons can serve as a distraction to one's spiritual progress, if you start deciding that you're right and every one else needs to be corrected. One can begin to substitute that shallow, surface level change for the real soul level growth one needs to be undertaking, and turn vegetarianism into an idolatrous "Way," rather than a simple dietary choice. (I was thinking of some vegan acquaintances when I wrote this, just an FYI, this isn't aimed at Diana or anyone else here.)

I don't know about Jesus or Buddha because that is hearsay and subject to human bias in recording events, but I agree that eating meat is not a deal breaker. This doesn't concern me anyway because my compassion for all life is where I'm at, not my concern for my own progress—one flows from the other. My own progress is my responsibility and concern of course, but it's hard for me to ex[plain—I don't separate that out from the whole. A person, presumably, would not decide to not kill her child because that would slow her spiritual progress; she would not kill her child because she loves it. I feel that way about all things, including plants. But as I have reiterated over and over on this forum, plants are inherently different and they in many ways are set up to offer themselves as food.

Looking ahead a thousand years, to an Earth inhabited by a fourth density social memory complex...do we really foresee that this enlightened fourth density civilization, in which the vibrational state of the Earth has polarized sufficiently for fifth and sixth density entities to start visiting in the "flesh," will achieve sustenance through the destruction of second density creatures? According to most of the channeled sources I've encountered on this topic, most positively polarized species in the universe do not destroy second density (or other) entities to sustain themselves. They eat the freely offered fruits of second density entities who have incarnated to provide this service. They would never artificially end that service in order to eat the entity itself.

The Jain are really the only people on this planet who pursue that kind of diet. Their dietary traditions are a fascinating study with fifteen hundred years of results to analyze.

This is how I feel as well.

The Jain are not the only people, though they do have a very strict and dogmatic approach. Many vegans are of the same mind.  

[sjel]

Instead, as my spirituality is spiraling positive, it seems like eating meat serves as a drag on my progress. Most of the time the slowdown isn't traumatic, just more like being grounded back to an unpolarized state

I have felt exactly this. I'm vegetarian for a month now, going on completely vegan. I ate several eggs yesterday and actually felt the same way I used to feel after eating meat: heavy, unpolarized, spiritually slow, clogged up in my energy centers. Vegan it is!

[YinYang]

The only bits I can find in the Ra material are these:

Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the most or the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned, for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.

Questioner: Would Ra please mention which foods are highly probable in not causing any spasming in the instrument’s digestive system?

Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

I'm quite happy not taking any position on this for the moment. Biological existence is such, that you have to kill to live, so then it just becomes a matter of which is ethical to kill and which isn't, and while I haven't read the meat thread (glancing at a few posts was enough to see that the apple cart fell over :-), it appears that its not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

I can see where you are coming from, Diana, and I commend your efforts in raising awareness, I just wonder if using animal cruelty as a means to denounce meat eating is... maybe painting it all with a single stroke... Perhaps the answer lies in ethical sourcing of animal products, which is increasingly happening... I think... or maybe hope!

[YinYang]

Okay, I have spent the last couple of days... looking at some awful things online. I might not be held responsible for my actions if I witness in person what I have seen in some of these videos...

Now I need to restore my peace again, but I just thought I'd let you know, Diana, that I'm pretty much over eating meat for now. I simply cannot be accessory to that, which is what I am if I buy meat.

I'm still happy with eating fish, we had snoek the last couple of evenings, and it was delicious.

I also feel like mentioning that the approach taken by some vegans and vegetarians in the meat thread, made me shake my head in disbelief. No meat eating friend of mine is "conscienceless" or polarising negatively, I know this because I know them, and it was implied in that thread. It reminded me of the pharisees in the bible... making people feel bad about themselves can never yield any positive results. I can also see that the thread was a strong catalyst for many involved, and I learned much :-)

All is well.

[AnthroHeart]

I started becoming vegetarian on my way to vegan because someone on a video said that it was a karma-free diet.
Then I saw another video mentioning more about veganism.

[YinYang]

I started becoming vegetarian on my way to vegan because someone on a video said that it was a karma-free diet.

Well, if that is so, then I have amassed a truckload of karma! :-)

[Jade]

Well, Ra had the same veil thickness as us in their third density, so while a very dense veil can certainly create more of a challenge, it's not the only factor playing a role in the situation that there are few to harvest on earth.

I'm not sure this is true. Ra says their time on Venus was very harmonious and that what causes our "special needs" conditions here on Earth is the many different groups that are coming here to finish out their cycle.

The ones who were harvested to your sphere from the sphere known before its dissolution as other names, but to your peoples as Maldek, incarnated, many within your Earth’s surface rather than upon it. The population of your planet contains many various groups harvested from other second-dimension and cycled third-dimension spheres. You are not all one race or background of beginning. The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum.

And yet while their seeking was harmonious, they say less than 20% of their population was harvested.

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%.

---

I'm quite happy not taking any position on this for the moment. Biological existence is such, that you have to kill to live, so then it just becomes a matter of which is ethical to kill and which isn't, and while I haven't read the meat thread (glancing at a few posts was enough to see that the apple cart fell over :-), it appears that its not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

I know you've changed your position a bit, but I feel like sharing the main difference between what I choose to eat and what I choose not to eat, for me. The fact is, that plants have developed and evolved to have parts of them consumed, while the rest of the plant thrives. Also, almost all plants have developed a system that requires some symbiosis with a being that can voluntarily move itself to different physical locations, whether that be a seed in a bird's beak, on a deer's fur, or in a primate's digestive system, or pollen on a bee or in the air. I can go out to my garden and harvest an entire meal for myself and not kill anything. Many plants thrive after being harvested - and the plants that we "kill" to eat are usually harvested at the end of their natural life cycle, anyway - they've produced their seed/fruit, and now they live on the hope that something will carry its genes away.

Obviously, humans aren't pooping in the dirt so this natural, ideal cycle of symbiosis is also altered. However, some plants have upped their game and are being cultivated by humans! What an amazing turn of luck for a being that directly solicits the help of other beings to help it procreate. Cows never asked for our help in the same way - even as domesticated as they are, you can let a herd of cows free range for years without any requirement of human intervention to help them thrive.

I would say that 99.99% of the meat that's killed in the developed world is killed unethically. Factory farms are a horror. Factory crop farms are also a horror show for the beings who live there, but if you had to choose a job, I think there is a definitely a tangible difference in the amount of suffering one would experience in each place. Also, just by reducing animal farms we reduce crop farms at a multiple rate - because the energy conversion from plant to animal to animal is quite low, we have to grow WAY more crops so that we can grow bacon.

it almost seems like the personal activism is a way to deter real political action that could make a difference.

Blame that one the thickness of the illusion. What else is there in our "singular" version of existence but personal responsibility?

(And for what it's worth, most of the "industrial pollution" in the US is from factory farms...)

And speaking of, I buy toilet paper from 100% recycled sources, whatever that's worth! I make an effort at conscious consumption of almost everything. I definitely do not think that plants are here to be exploited and that animals are only meant to be companions. The point I'm making is that plants have evolved for billions of years working alongside animals but animals have not evolved for very long at all alongside humans - and so far we've done a HORRIBLE job of nurturing the symbiosis that could be developed. We are parasites to the animals we have domesticated. This goes even beyond factory farming. If a snake corralled a wild bird and kept it near its den so that it could eat the egg it lays every day, would we believe that bird led a happy life? What about puppy mills that breed designer dogs that wind up in kill shelters? Yes, there needs to be a huge shift in how humans deal with second density life across the board, and for that matter how we deal with third density life too. But, the idea that since giant, sweeping changes need to be made, so personal responsibility is a cop out, is quite twisted. I thought the whole point was to make personal decisions in spite of, and in the face of society telling you that it's pointless and hopeless, and that the actions of One are meaningless.

[Diana]

Okay, I have spent the last couple of days... looking at some awful things online. I might not be held responsible for my actions if I witness in person what I have seen in some of these videos...

Now I need to restore my peace again, but I just thought I'd let you know, Diana, that I'm pretty much over eating meat for now. I simply cannot be accessory to that, which is what I am if I buy meat.

   

I also feel like mentioning that the approach taken by some vegans and vegetarians in the meat thread, made me shake my head in disbelief. No meat eating friend of mine is "conscienceless" or polarising negatively, I know this because I know them, and it was implied in that thread. It reminded me of the pharisees in the bible... making people feel bad about themselves can never yield any positive results. I can also see that the thread was a strong catalyst for many involved, and I learned much :-)

I think you have to really look at the context. The minority here, who were advocating for the animals, may have said things which sparked your disbelief, but the whole thread must be looked at to have a perspective. And you must be willing to give the vegetarian viewpoint an unbiased look. We were talking about things in general, not pointing fingers. Though understand, there is no way of talking about the plight of meat animals without meat-eaters thinking you are pointing fingers even though you are trying to talk generally.

And if you were to read those threads with an unbiased point of view, I think you might recognize that the vegetarians were attacked mercilessly at times (though many of the more offensive posts were deleted). Or pushed and prodded with unethical posts showing stuffed pigs, or steaming meat. It's not unusual. I have been vegetarian since '93, and I couldn't count the times people have joked "I had baby seal for lunch" thinking it's funny. I don't really care what people say, but it does get old and it's so unnecessary.

I hesitate to tell anyone I'm vegan, because the judgments that immediately arise are extreme. Even members here have accused vegans (in general) of being "extremists and zealots." It's simply not true. It's a biased judgment. All Muslims aren't extremists for example. And how many extremists eat meat? So it is a very skewed perspective.

The vegan perspective must be looked at with compassion (and it is absolutely based on compassion). I can see how unaware people will look at the (sensationalized) news and think that the (hypothetical) vegans/animal activists who broke into a testing lab to illegally film the animals were extremists, vigilantes, etc., when the truth was, one of the "activists" got a job there to do just that, and they came in at night after the other employees had gone home. This isn't really hypothetical because I saw a show on the public station of just this. The two who went to the lab at night, and filmed—among other horrors—a rabbit trying to walk on the floor but could only crawl and writhe in a spastic way, full of some chemical being tested, were both crying witnessing all the suffering. They did this so people would see what really happens to these poor animals in hopes of spreading awareness. If people know about the horrors, perhaps they will then make choices about what to buy that don't support torture and killing. Just as you have done.  

[rva_jeremy]

But, the idea that since giant, sweeping changes need to be made, so personal responsibility is a cop out, is quite twisted.

Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a cop out. In a world of overwhelming dissonance one simply cannot act on every ill at once. One does what one can. And I think there is magical charge to taking responsibility like that -- every act done out of care for the Earth and otherselves is an act of love and therefore never without substance.

That said, the way capitalism has accommodated the lifestyle of conscious consumption is a bit disturbing to me, almost as if it's a mere brand in some instances. For example, a lot of counties and cities just landfill your recycling because it's too expensive to sort. Now, does that mean you should actively not recycle? Of course not. It just means that in this massively complex, highly mediated society we live in, a passive, consumption-oriented approach can gloss over the reality. We don't want the feeling of making a difference to matter more than actually making a difference, but marketing is all about selling you a feeling. The market and purchase decisions are simply insufficient to tackle the problem.

So yes, I agree that personal responsibility is important. I just think we need to be realistic about how directly we can exercise that responsibility, and we ought to take our collective responsibility to act as a people seriously as well. Enter activism and the priority of mobilizing as a people, not as atomized consumers in a mass market, to fully exercise responsibility.

[YinYang]

I'm not sure this is true. Ra says their time on Venus was very harmonious and that what causes our "special needs" conditions here on Earth is the many different groups that are coming here to finish out their cycle.

I think we are saying the same thing, that our veil density is not the only significant factor playing a role in our situation. As I understand it, we have the same sun (sub-logos) and we are in the same solar system, which would make me think we have the same veil density. So I used Venus as an example of a planet with the same veil density as us (that's an assumption, due to us having the same sub-logos and being in the same octave and solar system), who yielded a satisfactory harvest, which is why I mentioned that it's not the only factor playing a role in Earth's disharmony and slow progress, but many other factors also, like the example you gave of our different race origins.

Also I don't know if our veil is particularly dense, I vaguely remember reading something of the sort maybe in the Quo material, or elsewhere. Actually I think I read it in the Bartholomew material from Mary Margaret-Moore.

I know you've changed your position a bit, but I feel like sharing the main difference between what I choose to eat and what I choose not to eat, for me. The fact is, that plants have developed and evolved to have parts of them consumed, while the rest of the plant thrives. Also, almost all plants have developed a system that requires some symbiosis with a being that can voluntarily move itself to different physical locations, whether that be a seed in a bird's beak, on a deer's fur, or in a primate's digestive system, or pollen on a bee or in the air. I can go out to my garden and harvest an entire meal for myself and not kill anything. Many plants thrive after being harvested - and the plants that we "kill" to eat are usually harvested at the end of their natural life cycle, anyway - they've produced their seed/fruit, and now they live on the hope that something will carry its genes away.

I fully agree with you on this, and it's also fresh and alive, whereas meat is decomposing flesh! I also believe Joel Goldsmith and Prentice Mulford, that eating meat becomes unpalatable at a certain point in ones evolution.

As an aside, I'm quite happy these days changing my mind on things. Our society advocates consistency, even to the point where we shame people who change their views on things.

I think you have to really look at the context. The minority here, who were advocating for the animals, may have said things which sparked your disbelief, but the whole thread must be looked at to have a perspective. And you must be willing to give the vegetarian viewpoint an unbiased look. We were talking about things in general, not pointing fingers. Though understand, there is no way of talking about the plight of meat animals without meat-eaters thinking you are pointing fingers even though you are trying to talk generally.

And if you were to read those threads with an unbiased point of view, I think you might recognize that the vegetarians were attacked mercilessly at times (though many of the more offensive posts were deleted). Or pushed and prodded with unethical posts showing stuffed pigs, or steaming meat. It's not unusual. I have been vegetarian since '93, and I couldn't count the times people have joked "I had baby seal for lunch" thinking it's funny. I don't really care what people say, but it does get old and it's so unnecessary.

I hesitate to tell anyone I'm vegan, because the judgments that immediately arise are extreme. Even members here have accused vegans (in general) of being "extremists and zealots." It's simply not true. It's a biased judgment. All Muslims aren't extremists for example. And how many extremists eat meat? So it is a very skewed perspective.

The vegan perspective must be looked at with compassion (and it is absolutely based on compassion). I can see how unaware people will look at the (sensationalized) news and think that the (hypothetical) vegans/animal activists who broke into a testing lab to illegally film the animals were extremists, vigilantes, etc., when the truth was, one of the "activists" got a job there to do just that, and they came in at night after the other employees had gone home. This isn't really hypothetical because I saw a show on the public station of just this. The two who went to the lab at night, and filmed—among other horrors—a rabbit trying to walk on the floor but could only crawl and writhe in a spastic way, full of some chemical being tested, were both crying witnessing all the suffering. They did this so people would see what really happens to these poor animals in hopes of spreading awareness. If people know about the horrors, perhaps they will then make choices about what to buy that don't support torture and killing. Just as you have done.

Yeah, I didn't go that far back in the thread, it was on the last couple of pages where it was implied that meat eaters are pretty much on the STS path... People know themselves, and if you know yourself to be a person of compassion and empathy, such a post is hurtful. It is basically shaming, and when someone is being shamed, they usually go on the attack. From that moment onwards it can only go one way, as it did... Other things like "it's just that the vegan wins on all counts", just turns the situation into "I'm right, you're wrong". Now it's a contest... "win or lose", and it closes the door.

Everyone was also pretty hot under the collar by then, and hurting, so it's easy for me to talk. I can distance myself from it and see what has transpired in a fairly detached way. I agree with you that the vegan viewpoint should be looked at as a viewpoint based on compassion, and I also don't have the answers as to how to open a discussion of this nature without meat eaters feeling judged and shamed. Maybe we should all toughen up, hey? This is a horrific thing which is happening on a very large scale, and I doubt there's a way to bring this to light without very emotional reactions, because no-one wants to think of themselves as being complicit in such horrors.

Anyway, I know the vegans meant well...

the way capitalism has accommodated the lifestyle of conscious consumption is a bit disturbing to me

Western capitalism has moved into very dark territory, devoid of all compassion. I first got a glimpse of it when I read the Amazon article in the New York Times, but I was still to have a personal run-in with this particular brand of capitalism when I took a contract on an American cruise line! Initially I went into shock at what I was seeing and experiencing. It was a climate of fear, but that's a loooong story for another day... I finally got it out of my system now. I became friends with the Platinum photographer onboard, and she called it "concentrated capitalism". She said to me "these people are devils, stop being so outspoken, you've been noticed." I openly called the whole operation criminal.

Then halfway through my contract the story broke in the news that our cruise liner had been intentionally polluting the oceans with a "magic pipe", so I walked into the lab and said "I see we made the news...for all the wrong reasons". My manager immediately shut me up and said "you cannot speak a word of this to anyone, it will land you in a lot of trouble..."

Afterwards, I was wondering if I should put on my whistle blower hat and write an article that exposes the cruise ship industry, but then I saw many have beaten me to it. I doubt I'll ever get the faces of those poor Filipinos out of my head (or their stories), they easily comprise more than 80% of the crew, slave labour working for peanuts... this planet... Any Caucasian Westerner earns more than double than any person of colour from Philippines, Indonesia, India, Mexico etc. for doing exactly the same job, in exactly the same position.

I thought about so many things in the Ra material while I was there, but one quote in particular was quite relevant:

Ra: I am Ra. Any organization which demands obedience without question upon the basis of relative power is functioning according to the above described plan.

[YinYang]

So we've been talking all things vegetarian this afternoon, and an interesting question came up from my friend... What do you feed your dog, who is naturally a carnivore, being descendent from wolves. We don't have cats, but the same applies to cats, members of the feline family.

[Diana]

So we've been talking all things vegetarian this afternoon, and an interesting question came up from my friend... What do you feed your dog, who is naturally a carnivore, being descendent from wolves. We don't have cats, but the same applies to cats, members of the feline family.

I will answer with my perspective.

First I have to say that I made the choice not to have pets anymore after my last cat died. I only had cats because they can be free. I won't keep any animals chained or penned etc. and would not have claws removed or ears and tails clipped. I won't keep fish in an aquarium. I like animals to be free to live their animal lives in as rich a way as possible. My pets are now the wild animals I feed in my yard, the most notable of whom is a mule deer herd.

When I did have cats I was faced with this quandary. I, as human, am made for a vegetarian diet, and I can make that decision for myself. But the quandary is of course, you face supporting the cruel systems that provides the meat for pet food. Cats are purely carnivirous (while dogs are omnivorous and are able to digest plant material). I would not force dogs or cats to be vegetarians (herbivores), which is unnatural for them. A side note is that a lot of cat foods include plant material and grains which are not good for them. So:

1. I found the best ethically-made, cruelty-free cat food I could source on the Internet.

2. Because I let my cats roam free indoors and out, they hunted and ate food that was the most natural for them, so it was a small part of their diet.

One thing I will add is a story about my sister's dog, Tearsha, a sweet German shepard. Tearsha was old and definitely dying. She could barely walk. My mother saw a recipe to make dog food on some chef program she was watching and started making Tearsha's food. If I recall it was very simple: rice and meat. Tearsha recovered and could walk and run again. She lived another 5 or so years.

If it were me, I would do extensive research to determine the best balance of items in a homemade diet, and/or source the best ethically produced and made cruelty-free dog food.