Help...

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Sigh, I feel kind of pathetic doing this but I don't really know what else to do and I can't find my thread where everyone gave me helpful solutions.  And so at the begging and pleading of Earth Spirit to ask for help here from the loving B4 community here I am.

Pretty much today was supposed to be a great day, instead it turned out pretty badly.  Got into a small dumb fight with my mother over the phone and now I can expect to be kicked out and my car taken and sold tonight, pretty much left hanging unless she's just bluffing but I can't tell.

Can anyone offer some resources on where I can go from here?  I apologize if I'm reluctant or distant too, I'm kind of frazzled and freaking out.

[AnthroHeart]

I wish I could help. That doesn't happen to me because I own the home and she stays with me. And I've never kicked her out, even when she threatened stuff.

If you are on disability you can put yourself on for government housing, but the wait is like a year or so (at least it is here).

*hugs* Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[isis]

I can't find my thread where everyone gave me helpful solutions.

here you are
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...#pid225005
and i wish you good luck.

[sjel]

Last time she said she would put you in an institution, and nothing came of that. She sounds like she bluffs big during passionate times. Have no fear, friend.

[Jade]

I'm gonna go with Sjel on this one - your mom's a bluffer.

Good luck though, let us know if you need anything.

[Jade]

Van, have you ever heard of "Grey rock"? It's a technique that abuse victims can use to pacify their abuser.

Your mother appears to enjoy saying things that will rile you up. Maybe it's time you call her bluff and quit acting like what she says is the law that will be handed down. A lot of people have success in these situations by cutting off the supply of drama - instead of you responding like this, feeling totally distraught and lost and dependent upon your mother, you can teach yourself to have a less dramatic/emotional response, or ideally, no emotional response (at least, not in front of her) - if she doesn't get her drama from you, she has to get it elsewhere.

So that's why they call it "grey rock". You attempt to become about as interesting as a rock to the person inciting you. Anyway, I'm not sure if this is feasible in your situation (sometimes mind games like this will aggravate an abuser even more) but for those that seem to be doing is mostly unconsciously (like your mother) - just changing the "output" response from you might change what she tries to "input".

I tried googling for you and found this article. I only read the first part of it (it's long!) but it seems to be pretty legit. (If you read the whole thing and find something objectionable, let me know) http://flyingmonkeysdenied.com/2016/05/0...rspective/

[AnthroHeart]

Grey rock sounds like being passive aggressive.

[Aion]

Grey rock sounds like being passive aggressive.

Well in any situation such as this you can either be passive, aggressive or a combination of the two. Being passive would mean just taking the abuse. Being aggressive would mean fighting back in turn. Passive aggressiveness has a bad social connotation only because aggressive people want to fight head on and passive people want to avoid any fight at all. The fact is that it is just as regular of a defense mechanism as aggression or passivity. People who are passive aggressive usually give a negative connotation towards those who are purely aggressive or purely passive. There is no 'right' way to respond to a situation but there are different effects from different approaches. This is something I actually work with a lot in my own practice and my own self-development is learning about the difference in these approaches. I have learned that each really has its own place. Sometimes aggression is needed in order to get things moving. Sometimes passivity is needed to clear the way. Sometimes passive aggressiveness is needed in order to stand your ground.

Absolutely all of these things can be turned in to tools for manipulation, there is no denying that, but that's again not the nature of the tools but rather the nature of the one who is using them.

And to C_A, unfortunately since I don't know your area or your social situation I don't know what I may offer but emotional support for your troubled mind. I know how scary it is to be unsure if you will have your security suddenly pulled beneath your feet and it's not fun. I wish you the best of luck and wisdom on discerning a path that will aid you in both body and mind.

[Glow]

CA just saw this. What is the update. I know you had an offer for a place to crash.
I can throw money in for travel expenses if that happens.

[earth_spirit]

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[Glow]

I could do similar. What is the bank issue? I'm up across the boarder in another country so not local but the bank thing seems like the first issue that needs to be remedied.

[earth_spirit]

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[Glow]

I just googled chandler Arizona, you have farms around you CA I would start calling around. This time of year even up here in Canada we need people desperately to get the crops growing and harvested.
Some provide accommodation in some form. It might not be a computer job but it would get you fed and at least provide you with a stepping stone.

Just a thought

[Glow]

The reason bank is such a problem is that Coordinate_Apotheosis has student loan debt (FASFA) which prevents him from using his own bank account. I would have already sent him money otherwise. Now, even if I did send him money, it would go to his mother's bank account who would take the money for herself.

I intend to support him monthly thru (someone elses, possibly his friend's) Patreon, GoFundMe, or TransferWise perhaps. Never used TransferWise before but did use the other two.

I am also considering WesternUnion.

ugh student loan... would be so nice if life weren't so complicated.

[Infinite Unity]

He needs to make an account she doesn't know about or have access to. I love how you guys are willing to help CA. If I had funds I surely would. CA keep your head up you are well loved.

[earth_spirit]

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[Jade]

What about a prepaid debit card?

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

SIIIGHHH

I'm so ashamed and embarrassed to ask this of people, I couldn't even bring myself to come into this thread even after E_s talked me into making it until he kept on trying to calm me down and talk me into it.  I have...A really hard time asking for help as if I were a freeloader...  I'm trying to make plans for the future to move out but it all revolved around the money situation.  A large part of my issue with finding a job is consistently keeping up with it, with my home life I can barely function without a job, with one it's like being ground down right towards a strong desire to go kill myself, not that that doesn't happen just living here with my mother anyways.

As you guys called it, she was bluffing.  Still, while I was out trying to figure out what to do, my mother went into my room through my window (I locked the door before I left, didn't want her grabbing my stuff), and took off my door and hide or threw away the hinge bolts (not the hinges themselves) to it and was planning on throwing away the entire door.

I get a text starting with, "dont b pissed off but i took off ur door" and all I could reply was "I don't understand, I thought I didn't live there anymore", and she replies with 'Don't be ridiculous'.  Playing with my mind seems to be a highlight for her controlling nature.

I'm actively looking to find a new manner of holding onto money to save up and move out eventually.  Been talking to a few friends about opening up a joint bank account with them.

Sjel, if it provides perspective, my mother WAS going to put me in an institution for 3 days but 'didn't have the money'.  Although considering her insurance which covers me would have covered it all, I can't tell if that too was a bluff, stacked lies, like pancakes only bitter and sour rather than yummy and sweet.

Van, have you ever heard of "Grey rock"? It's a technique that abuse victims can use to pacify their abuser.

Your mother appears to enjoy saying things that will rile you up. Maybe it's time you call her bluff and quit acting like what she says is the law that will be handed down. A lot of people have success in these situations by cutting off the supply of drama - instead of you responding like this, feeling totally distraught and lost and dependent upon your mother, you can teach yourself to have a less dramatic/emotional response, or ideally, no emotional response (at least, not in front of her) - if she doesn't get her drama from you, she has to get it elsewhere.

So that's why they call it "grey rock". You attempt to become about as interesting as a rock to the person inciting you. Anyway, I'm not sure if this is feasible in your situation (sometimes mind games like this will aggravate an abuser even more) but for those that seem to be doing is mostly unconsciously (like your mother) - just changing the "output" response from you might change what she tries to "input".

I tried googling for you and found this article. I only read the first part of it (it's long!) but it seems to be pretty legit. (If you read the whole thing and find something objectionable, let me know) http://flyingmonkeysdenied.com/2016/05/0...rspective/

Sounds PRECISELY like what I used to do to her as a teenager a bit after my parent's divorced, all it did was make her move to more messed up actions.  It culminated with her physically assaulting me by grabbing me by the hair and dragging me down a hallway, after she punched a hole in my wall, called the police and told them I did it, then had me shipped to a juvenile delinquent center.  Fun fact, when she came to pick me up, I refused to leave with her.  The lady running the place, well, her disposition towards me flipflopped, she thought I was a smart delinquent all nice and quiet, then she saw my mother and how I was around her and the switch flipped.  She wasn't supposed to, but she literally let me stay there an extra day.

Yeah, I preferred a home for juvenile delinquents to my own at one point.  I'm quite honestly extremely relieved that I'm not a physically violent person despite all of this, I have my moments of rampaging, but beyond that I try to lead flies back outside when they get into the house...  (I even have an entire system using light to attract them to the backdoor hah...I just turn off the kitchen light, voila).

Still, it's messed up because nothing I do works, she adapts to me, I adapt to her, I'm trying to earn her love, she's trying to keep me around in her, increasingly, lonely life.  It's a vicious cycle and this is the line for me.  I'm 24 and have no money, no job, and the few things I have she wants to take control of too, I can't function half the time and feel like my life has fallen far beyond apart because of how she's forced my life to unravel.  I wouldn't be in student loan debt had she not forced me to go to the Art Institute otherwise she would have kicked me out, which in retrospect, was probably a lie.  Had I been given the time to research everything, I would've had ONE (maybe two) Majors, not flipped between 4 or 5, I would've been in IT anyways but oriented towards Programming rather than Desktop hardware/firmware/software repair.  I wouldn't have flopped between Digital Film, Media Arts/Animation, Game Design, IT, Psychology, Business/Accounting, and Philosophy.  Jesus that's SEVEN majors!  I was NOT READY, and now I'm suffering for it.

And while I try EXTREMELY HARD to not blame my mom and make her the reason my life has pretty much fallen apart, there is a lot of me that feels that she is the main reason why my life has pretty much fallen apart.  Every attempt I made to be myself was shut down, now I can't even function in being myself independently.  The idea of leaving here is so deeply frightening that I'm physically stunned with fear at the thought of it.  Even being homeless is more acceptable to me than moving out for some reason.

As far as I can tell, I've an abused mindset, and my greatest fear now is...Well studies show that people who are abused in turn are abusive.

I don't want to be abusive, I've already been, others have seen it...That's not me.  Not what I want to be...

So, I need to get out, an I feel like it all starts with finding a way to hold onto my own money.

Grey rock sounds like being passive aggressive.

Well in any situation such as this you can either be passive, aggressive or a combination of the two. Being passive would mean just taking the abuse. Being aggressive would mean fighting back in turn. Passive aggressiveness has a bad social connotation only because aggressive people want to fight head on and passive people want to avoid any fight at all. The fact is that it is just as regular of a defense mechanism as aggression or passivity. People who are passive aggressive usually give a negative connotation towards those who are purely aggressive or purely passive. There is no 'right' way to respond to a situation but there are different effects from different approaches. This is something I actually work with a lot in my own practice and my own self-development is learning about the difference in these approaches. I have learned that each really has its own place. Sometimes aggression is needed in order to get things moving. Sometimes passivity is needed to clear the way. Sometimes passive aggressiveness is needed in order to stand your ground.

Absolutely all of these things can be turned in to tools for manipulation, there is no denying that, but that's again not the nature of the tools but rather the nature of the one who is using them.

And to C_A, unfortunately since I don't know your area or your social situation I don't know what I may offer but emotional support for your troubled mind. I know how scary it is to be unsure if you will have your security suddenly pulled beneath your feet and it's not fun. I wish you the best of luck and wisdom on discerning a path that will aid you in both body and mind.

As someone who's had that security blanket already ripped from underneath him when my mom kicked out my PREGNANT girlfriend even after I made it precisely clear that if she does that she'd be kicking me out too, I can say...  No, it's a reaaaaalllly f***** up shitty experience that ultimately led me to not getting to know my son.  My ex, the mother of my son, has cited my mom as the MAJORITY reason why she didn't want me in our son's life.  As long as my mom's in the picture, my son won't be.

One of the first things I'm going to try to do once I'm independent is find a line of communication with my son...  With my mom out of the picture, my ex might just be okay with this despite everything that's happened between us even after the break up.

Don't ever make a small hole in a wall of a monster's house (from a bed rocking back and forth -cough-) then go on a week long trip to another state to meet your pregnant girlfriends entire family.  My mother literally began harassing her mother on facebook just to make me call her up so she could tell me she's changing the locks and not to come home because we damaged a wall in the room we were living in.

We had to have her relatives buy us a supershuttle just to get back to the house to pack my little Toyota Camry full of an entire room's worth of stuff.  From there it was just hell all the way until our son was born.  Along the way my mother also brought the bedbugs from my old room (at the time anyway, I nazi'd those bedbugs!) to our apartment.  Which you know, ended well.  Not.

She then talked my half brother and his gf into moving down here, then kicked him and her out so I took them in at my apartment at the time, and then he skimped on rent because he was sleeping on the floor and was spending all his money on alcohol, so on Dec 25th stands up at dinner, tells me I'm a piece of s*** and that they won't be paying rent, all because I had an issue with his attitude cause we woke him up from a nap to eat dinner.  Didn't help he was drinking all day.

Wouldn't have happened if not for my mother.

Once I'm out of here, I truly feel that I will be cutting her out of my life completely without exception.

CA just saw this. What is the update. I know you had an offer for a place to crash.
I can throw money in for travel expenses  if that happens.

You've already donated enough to me!  I can't ask you to give me more...

I could do similar. What is the bank issue? I'm up across the boarder in another country so not local but the bank thing seems like the first issue that needs to be remedied.

Basically long story short, I have a crapload of student debt, I think it's over 50k, probably 80k by now what with late fees and interest and whatnot.  As such if I have my own bank account, any income I make will be cut to go to paying those loans.

Thing is the majority of that debt is from the Art Institute, who LIED to me about the costs.  A year in I looked at what I owed versus what they said I would, the difference was literally enough to make me drop the paper.

So like, don't go to the Art Institute, they will take all your money and give you a degree that most places scoff at.

As such I'm sharing a joint acc with my mom, except every bit of money I make is at her disposal, she uses my paychecks for her bills, to help her buy more weed I presume.  When I told her I was saving up to move out, suddenly my money was going to grocery shopping and paying the water, electric, netflix, internet bill...
Need I go on?  I need to find my own way to keep money.  It'd be very helpful if the GOVERNMENT couldn't REACH THEIR G-MANNY HANDS INTO MY PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT, but you know, this is a free country and all, Uncle Sam is free to grab your money just because.

Also doesn't help that in order to even receive FASFA anymore you also need to sign up to be drafted in case time of war breaks out.

Education in America is a MASSIVE SCAM, please, study abroad if possible, study anywhere but inside of America, you will regret it LITERALLY for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

I just googled chandler Arizona, you have farms around you CA I would start calling around. This time of year even up here in Canada we need people desperately to get the crops growing and harvested.
Some provide accommodation in some form. It might not be a computer job but it would get you fed and at least provide you with a stepping stone.

Just a thought

I thought about this a looong time ago.  In thought it sounds perfect, learning how to farm is actually high up on my 'things I want to do' list, learning how to cultivate life and raise it, whether gardening or farming, just sounds so amazing.

So I looked into it.  There's a few different types.  There's ways to do this abroad in other countries or not abroad but within another state, such as Hawaii (would do) or somewhere on the East coast (avoid like plague).  Long story short, the farms out here are bad.  I had a friend who begun working at one for room and board but she didn't realize she was pregnant at the time, once she found out, they fired her on the spot.

Arizona is a 'right to work' state, an employer can fire you for literally nothing.  However, the same applies to an employee quitting.  Out here, the working situation is highly apathetic, filled with unbelievably uncaring people.  Those farm jobs for board, apparently are comparable to slave labor according to my friend.  She'd have to wake up, be out in the field, and if you didn't work hard or fast enough you'd be threatened with being fired right there and tossed on the street there and then.  They did it to her when she told them she was pregnant.

I doubt I'd last long, I'm NOT IN ANY SENSE a high energy person, I work slowly, I work methodically, I focus on details and take my time.  Because if I don't I get so exhausted I have to slow down anyways.  Put it this way, working an overnight job, all I really had to do was clean and take care of customers.  The cleaning work wasn't physically intensive beyond the normal physical work of crouching, bending, getting on hands and knees to scrub.  That alone knocks me out.  I get ground down if I can't work slowly, when I get ground down I start to lose it, patience falls far away, every little thing becomes a big issue, especially if it was birthed by another employee just ignoring it and not doing their job.  Which happens CONSTANTLY anywhere I've worked.

Hell, the last job I was at, McDonalds, the GM on the night shift worked with burnt meat with his BARE HANDS, after leaving them on styrofoam plates that melt and get plastic onto the meat patty before being put into a burger and served.  One of the coworkers, an elderly man, was tasked singlehandedly with moving in the inventory shipments.  OSHA standards require TWO people for any task that is physically hazardous like that.  There was no aprons for dishwashing, the dishwashers had to leave soaking wet.  No one was allowed to take home uniforms, so they had them all there, but by the time morning shift was over there was no CLEAN uniforms to wear, I would need to take a soiled uniform in the dirty bin and wear that THEN WORK WITH FOOD.

I could go on and on about the state of the work place and how it's gone out of control with apathy using 'profit' and 'numbers' as an excuse to perpetuate it further.  The job before McDonalds, Einstein Bagels, they didn't even record my hours or give me a uniform and had me working 10 hour days pretty much doing all of their heavy work while everyone else just took care of customers.  That didn't last long, I don't appreciate ruining my clothes for a job that is SO UNPROFESSIONAL that the boss of the GM fired an incredibly important worker for simply giving her an attitude (cause he was overworked as hell and paid like s***) and left me to work a full 7 days 10+ hours each day, without recording my hours or anything, nothing.  Took them 2 months after I quit to give me my paycheck, took me threatening to sue them for them to get to it.

So, no, when I find a job, it has to be something I can live with, that I can be proud of doing.  That fills me with integrity, and doesn't subject me to unprofessional apathetic uncaring employees or a dick of a manager (extremely important my manager isn't a cruel person otherwise I'm GONE!  I've been managed by a monster my entire life, I don't need a second one.)

I've been trying to get hired at a hookah lounge in the area, I'm extremely passionate about the hookah experience and I have begged the manager at the hookah bar I frequent to consider me, even going as far as to tell him that the hours weren't important and I really just wanted the experience.  Considering their hours are 3pm to 2am, that's so perfectly up my alley.  Otherwise I'm going to look back into a gas station job, might even reapply for the one I used to work at up the street from me since my old manager is finally leaving and his boss who disliked me for not adjusting my plans to work a night I had scheduled off specifically weeks prior with my manager.  He's promoted and no longer the one who looks over applications, so if I can get back in, that'd be swell.

I'm just not looking forward to potentially being robbed, again...

But yeah, those farm jobs, they look enticing but the reality is those people are cold it seems.  I wouldn't last very long...

My ideal job is either a sitting job, or a very slow paced laid back job like tending a hookah bar.

---

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I'm sorry for my vagueness, I struggled greatly with making this thread...I feel very...  Ashamed and embarrassed that I need to bother others to help me just live my life...  But you all have been so thoughtful...Along with E_s's pushing me and not letting me just give up...  Thank you everyone for your support, it is almost literally life changing for me it feels like.

I've been working on programming, although I've been more focused on the writing and graphic art portions of my overall plans than the actual programming (mostly because the programming part I want to tackle solely after I've gotten everything else up like cornerstones).  I have plans, plans on how to live, plans on what to learn, life plans...They didn't go the way I ever thought they would but that's life, and so I need to adapt.

I'm glad to have you all helping me, it's greatly uplifting for the spirit!

[Glow]

Very stressful situation for sure CA. sorry you are dealing with all this. Can I make a few comments.

1. remember you have youth on your side. You have time to fix all this.
2. unfortunatley you may have to pay off those loans before you can afford to move out on your own. You cannot successfully skirt around creditors and the government in this system

Instead of transferring money to your mothers account why not contact the creditors and try to renegotiate payment options so you can start witting that down and let your tax status be legit. Any business you start if you have the money going to an account in a friends name they very likely will be in trouble if they do not claim the deposits made to your account as their own income so unfortunately that has to be dealt with,

Is there anyone you could ask to assist you in that? I hope the jobs you are looking at turn out to be for you but remember sometimes we have to do stuff we don't want to just to survive. My business... I used to puke and yes cry on the way to every single stop... that would be 3-5 stops a day and dear god I was so stressed and scared but there were only worse alternatives so I just did it even though for the first 2 years it basically wrecked me emotionally sometimes there are no other options. Its still hard on me 9 years later but it gets easier as time goes on.

Anyways I am sorry you are facing tall this, just remember you arent alone but you need a plan to be legit $ wise or things are only going to get worse,
You can do this, have more faith in yourself.

[Jade]

I'm just going to lightly echo Glow's sentiment here, about having to work jobs that suck sometimes... obviously it's not ideal, but if the alternative is being beholden to your mother for everything... well... I've had multiple jobs where I also would vomit/cry almost every single day... I had an ulcer when I was 23... But you know what? It was still preferable to living with either of my parents.

Don't feel bad asking for help. Seriously. The Law of One literally says that an entity must ask for help, otherwise you are infringing by offering. So asking for help gives us all a good opportunity to serve you. Thank you.

Also I'm going to reiterate the idea about the debit card, I'm not sure what the drawbacks would be except maybe a monthly fee. It could be loaded at a distance by anyone and many will let you use them at ATMs to withdrawal cash even.

[Glow]

I've never heard of the reloadable debit. You Americans have all the cool stuff.

[GreatSpirit]

That sucks man. I was kicked out of the house before. Luckily I had a friend to stay with for a couple weeks and then I went back but I moved out like a month or 2 later. I just needed to get away from my mom and step-dad. It was like getting a spanking from them because I disrespected them.

But I learned that I was at the mercy of my parents when I lived with them so it's very wise to pick your battles. JUST PLAY THE GAME OF NICENESS until you are able to get your own place. If you can't stand each other, then that's a clear sign to get the hell out of that place.

Best scenario that I hope for you is that you don't get kicked out, keep your car (is it in your name and do you make payments?), and everything chills out.

If you do get kicked out, you still have options. If your car is in your name, then that will be your new address. There's always the homeless shelter/soup kitchens for food. Last but not least, there are the streets. Hell, even jail could be an option as crude as it is. They have food and shelter. Just walk up to a corner store and be like "yo man, just call the cops and tell them I tried to rob you."

You do what you need to do. Peace.

[Stranger]

You need someone you can trust, someone who will be 100% supportive to you and help you come up with a plan to work your way out of your situation. Please find a psychologist. Ideally, look for a Ph.D. or Psy.D. - they get more training. Here's a link: https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Us Americans are mostly apathetic towards all things living.

Jade, Glow, I've been there with the crying AND vomiting, I shut down, how do you manage to keep dealing with it??  I feel like I can't handle it, but only because I've got nothing good to go home too...  I remember when I had my own apartment and I'd come home to my pregnant girlfriend, felt like I could handle anything, until my boss pulled a huge dick move for calling out to stay with her in the hospital and cut all my hours, I literally scoffed in his face as he personally insulted me and told him I was done with his attitude, told him to get counseling, to stop scheduling himself for 50 hours if he didn't like it and to learn how to talk to people.  Fun fact. That job no longer exists, they got shut down.  That manager liked to scream at people until his face was pink.  I would've liked to put it in the pressure cooker there at KFC, whiten up his rawness a bit.

I don't understand people.  I honestly am so disturbed by so many people that I don't even know if I CAN survive working.  Some parts of me would rather live in a tent and survive as a homeless urban nomad...  But I doubt I'd survive long with how low energy I am.

How do you handle it?

GS, the game of niceness gets me used and abused, you don't want to be nice to my mother.  She'll manipulate you down, hard.  I basically live in a room now avoiding her like the plague.

My car situation is my dumbass fault for trusting my mother.  To keep insurance payments low (by like 20-40 dollars) we put my car in her name despite my paying 2k for its total 2.5k price (which was a rip off, had a major engine issue that cost 700, fucking guy lied to and ripped me off, I wish I could make him pay for it in medical bills but I'm just too nice...) and so now she holds it over my head.  As for insurance, I was paying it consistently, only seemed legit, then she started lying about the amount, inflating it above what it actually was, so when I no longer had an income I told her I knew what she was doing and that she can pay for it for a while.  Sure wasn't happy about it but I consider it karma.  You take my money wrongfully I'll make you pay for it.

Love believe it or not, does not change these things or transform them.  It just buries them to come up again worse than ever.  Love isn't meant for these systems of apathy or heavily apathetic people.  Their lessons are far worse than anyone who is loving...

The worst part is I see this apathy I hate so very much in myself.  Especially when I don't censor myself like above.

it is...Deeply, although not absolutely, the worst feeling I've ever known.  From pain to misery, apathy makes me feel sick in a way nothing.else does, except really messed up stuff like torture or physical trauma being inflicted for fun...

Sigh.  So much to do.  If only life had a redo button that wasn't basically suicide, I'd push it and try again but this time gtfo into my own place way sooner...

The bank issue I don't think will become an issue as the business isn't actually a business...  Like I'm not claiming it as an income or anything.  I wouldn't think it'd matter all that much for the other person too since my name is on the account, could just say that that account is almost exclusively used by me.
How would it become a problem???  Is owning a bank account seriously this convoluted?  Its like dealing with my mother in financial form....

GS, I've thought of doing that if I were ever desperate enough, but I'd also honestly rather not be a homeless mentally ill person with a criminal record.  Police don't need an excuse to beat to death literally mentally ill people like that, Nevermind the ones with criminal records.

I'd LOVE to talk to a psychologist or even a counselor.  But the health insurance I share with my mom only works through the people her company redirects us too.  Twice I tried to setup an appointment, twice 7 different places did not return my calls or even pickup the phone after calling several hours apart.  I was seriously flabbergasted at that occurrence.  It felt like the universe conspiring to stop me or something....

I can't afford a psychologist...  Mental health practices should be free and paid for by the government.  Why wouldn't you want a mentally healthy populace??

I seriously do not understand half of this stuff...  I thought America was land of the free not land of the conformity.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Here's a link: https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms

I wonder if I can email any of these people asking about a few free sessions...

[Jade]

Joseph, you have to stop trusting your mother at all. Putting the car title in her name has NOTHING to do with the price of your insurance.

My first piece of advice, a place to start, would be to see if you can't gain possession of that car. Try to buy it back from her, or offer her to buy it from you. Maybe she'd transfer the title to you for $500-$1000 or something - which would be something you could make a gofundme for (and get into writing before you hand her any money).

Maybe if you sit down and have a conversation with her and try to let her know you're going to try to get your stuff together, quit being a burden on her, you have people helping, etc. You've mentioned before that she's been reasonable about certain things. But my primary goal would be securing that vehicle. Shoot, you're in Arizona, you could live in that car year round - not saying that's ideal, but plenty of people do it. I lived out of my car and couch surfed for many months while I was 18-19. Again, better than being at home waiting for the shoe to drop.

As far as holding a job, now that I am spiritually aware and practicing the things I have learned, obviously catalyst is more easy to deal with. Once I was able to free my tie to my abusers in my family, I was able to break that cycle and no longer do I experience that abuse from my bosses. But otherwise, you just have to choose the discomfort/abuse that you prefer - the one you know (mom) or the one that's scary and unfamiliar (capitalist society and job system).

I know your situation sucks, the whole system sucks. But you need to recognize that you made these choices for yourself, on some level - as hard as they are. You incarnated on earth for a material, spiritual, and psychological struggle, as did we all. We have choices to make. If we can learn to best make those choices out of compassion, for yourself and others, then we can begin to find our way to the solution.

I don't mean to be harsh. But I just want to say that it seems like you're having trouble taking responsibility for your situation at all - that you are at the whims of others entirely. This may feel true, this may be true - but you can change that. You can take responsibility, and gain control of your life. And you have help from compassionate people - which is a lot more than most people in situations similar to yours have.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Its precisely with that help I'm planning on making it out in one piece.

...Doesn't the holder of the... eh...  That makes me feel really stupid.

I know that car has me set.  Its probably why she's got her grimey fingers all over it...

You're not wrong.  Responsibility and I rarely see eye to eye.  Many times I don't feel like I'm required to be responsible because any time I am, I get shut down and negated.

I'd have a garden by now but nope, its a trash pile because she thinks a pile of garbage is able to compost.
Would have had 5k saved up instead of 2k but mother kept forcing me to give her money.
Pool would be perfectly fine if she didn't force me to put chemicals in it without running the filters.
House would be well taken care of had she not dictated what is and isn't okay to do.  I can't even leave a plate out for ONE NIGHT without her yelling at me.

I try and she shuts it down.  It gets to a point where I can't even tell what is trying anymore.  It feels like I'm handicapped with responsibility because I was never allowed to or even shown how to be responsible.
Not sure if that shows but I imagine it does vividly.

I never even was given an allowance, I had to use lunch money as my allowance. Had to skip eating just to do things with friend's after school.  When I asked for an allowance and cited ALL my friends get one.  I was told my allowance is living in her house.

Guess who quickly never did another chore except for when he felt like it.

I'd love to be responsible, I was doing really well at it back in 2014 while Living The Law of One, but it all came so uninterruptingly naturally.  so I know I'm capable!  I just don't know how...  and as you see, my gullibility gets me taken advantage of through lies.

I admire your resilience Jade.  I just don't want to perpetuate those environments.  People deserve to be treated with respect when they're working, not like they're disposable garbage.  I'd rather be my own boss if that's what it takes to get away from those environments.

I would lovingly pay off my school loans owed to the community college I went to.  I just don't believe The Art Institute deserves another penny from me.
And if I'm being totally honest, I think no one should have to pay a country back debt owed to it when the country itself is trillions of dollars in debt.
The Government Senators can stop doing their job and still get paid.  Why can't everyone else?
The country can.go trillions in debt and no ones collecting its assets.  Why isn't that true for people?

Debt is a TOTAL SCAM.  I don't think anyone should pay it. I think physical money should replace the virtual system so the government can't just access your account and steal your money, so that people can manage money without going through so many hoops.

I just can't agree with this society.  I won't be very happy inside of it.  I want to find a way to live totally self sufficiently...  That's where my priorities are directed.  I'd rather live in a Van or minihome or a home built into a hill  or tree than pay a mortgage.  I'd love to roll along the countryside in a Van living spiritually doing my freelance work for money, live as I go, earn as I go.

One day...I'm going to keep working towards it.  Towards something that isn't requiring me to be a machine for 40+ hours just to go back to a place I'm not even happy in anyways to repeat until I'm dead.

I want to live life and come to understand the Earth, not just live on it.  But people think that's unrealistic but I KNOW that there IS A WAY.  I will find it through all the chafe and abuse and set backs.

I've already have so much support.  I just need to take action personally...Take responsibility.

You weren't harsh in the least Jade.  No worries

[Stranger]

Here's a link: https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms

I wonder if I can email any of these people asking about a few free sessions...

I thought you said you were on disability?  If so, you should have Medicare?

[Jade]

When you say you have 2k saved, you mean, as of right now you have $2,000 in the bank? Because that changes everything. That's first, second, and last month's rent on an apartment. That's a new car (mine cost me $700). That's freedom right there, man. I've never had $2,000 in the bank.

It seems to me like you've been helping perpetuate this adversarial relationship with your mother. When I was a teenager, I received $10 a week for lunch money, which would feed me 2-3 days, and that's it - PLUS I had nearly 2 hours of chores I had to do every day before I could spend time with my friends. I had to come home after school to complete them - the rules were that I couldn't do them before school. Having money to spend with friends was out of the picture - shoot, having friends was mostly out of the picture. And if I didn't complete my chores, my step mom would steal the cords to my computer - thereby eliminating contact with the rest of my friends.

While my situation was extreme, I don't think it's unreasonable for an adult to expect a teenager to contribute to the house in the form of chores, allowance or not. For you to act like you shouldn't need to contribute to the upkeep of your home by that age was a bit spoiled and entitled. Yes, your mother enabled this, but at any point in you life (past, present, or future) you could take the torch and make choices that are productive instead of destructive. For instance, you talk about what a horrible state your house is in currently - I mean, isn't that a reflection on the choice you made to not contribute to its upkeep? Can you say this is really entirely your mother's fault? When you decided it wasn't worth your effort to take care of your home without a monetary payment, you made the energetic decision that you would rather see your home falling apart than contributing for free.

The point I'm trying to make is that your choices have consequences because they are your choices, not entirely because they are somebody else's choices. For as long as you continue to blame others for your state of being, you will never be able to step beyond that.

Take me for an example. I share some of the trauma I've been through, and it's been pretty tough. But I don't use it to make me bitter or angry. I recognize the value in having struggles, because this is how humans develop empathy. I think back on my experiences, and try to learn them by reframing them. I try to use the weight of my struggles as stepping stones to a higher level of being, and not as burdens that keep pulling me under water. Obviously I am not perfect, and I struggle too, with depression and anxiety, still. But I can look back at where I was when I was your age and see what great strides I've made, and that's very important.

I feel like I have to hammer some of this in because you have been enabled to be irresponsible for so long. Yes, it would be great if we could all just spend our days in a hookah bar without a care in the world. But there is work to do - on our selves, on the collective level. We have to balance work and play, but first and foremost we have to take responsibility for our lives and actions.

You can't just take this philosophy and say "I knew how to use it once but now I'm helpless!" Now that you've read it, you own it, buddy. You have to use it. All of the books and materials are available online for free. Read them again. Apply them. Practice. Meditate. This is all stuff you can do for free in your bedroom, and it will help your life. I don't want to hear any excuses about why anything in this final section of my post is difficult for you to do. It's really not. Do it. Meditate every day. If you don't, you're not choosing to prioritize your spiritual development over the illusion daily, and you'll be stuck.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I should've been clearer, had 2k, spent it all on a car lol

I kept this house clean singlehandedly after my parents divorced, it was a lot of hard work and I was already a low energy person then.  When I realized I wasn't making an allowance whereas all my friends were, and my mom not only not giving me one but then ALWAYS telling me what I did wasn't good enough and amounted up to nothing, you BET I STOPPED DOING STUFF FOR HER.

What's the point in cleaning something if you're just going to be made to feel miserable about it?  She told me I was nothing, I do nothing, and never contribute, sometimes right there while I'm cleaning the damn house.  What am I supposed to do, just take it?  I'm not the kind of way.  I stopped doing things for her.  I still do things for myself and clean the house if others are coming over but mostly I made a choose to NOT let my mother use me, a choice that resulted in a lot of my stuff getting taken away, at one point I was forced to sit in my room with nothing to do for several days, not even a book.

So, I think it's different catalyst and mannerisms of personality.  I worked my butt off to please my mother and she was debasing and condescending and neutralizing the entire way, so I stopped.  And she had to deal with that so that she'd better realize what all I DID do.  Turns out it only works so well though because even to this day she tells me I do absolutely nothing worthwhile or useful.

Be happy you had friends growing up too, I didn't have any except in 5th grade, one guy named Buddy, and then puberty hit and all he EVER wanted to do was go outside and stare at girl's butts, so that friendship dissipated quickly since he also became violent and rude.
6th grade I met one of my best friends, and my first girlfriend, by that point my parent's marriage was basically fallen apart.
7th grade I met another best friend, and then my parents divorced.
8th grade my girlfriend gave me the cold shoulder for two years because I didn't talk to her because of the depression of my family falling apart.  During that beginning time soon after she did that to me, our friend who'd hang out with me now and then would rub it in my face how she knows why my ex isn't talking to me, but won't tell me.  This was also the year my mom first began becoming violent towards to what with grabbing me by the hair and dragging me down a hallway, all because I wouldn't go to bed right there and then.
9th grade I had no friends, everyone had their own group and I was left to the wind.  Total loner all the way into Senior year, hard to make connections when you're already disconnected from yourself.

I don't think it's unreasonable for an adult to expect a child to contribute.  I think it is unreasonable to never praise that child and scold them regardless of whether they do something or not.  I think my choices were well within reason considering the way my mother treated me.

I don't think you understand fully how this philosophy works, owning and enabling.  Being abused is enabling irresponsibility?  You seriously believe the Law of One is a valid excuse to do some of the things done on this planet, don't you.

That's highly, extremely disturbing to me.  I've seen you personally let your abused side get the better of you, I think it's only fair that you realize that I am trying, I'm not just sitting here doing nothing. I have an extremely hard time reaching out, and an even harder time finding motivation to even bother with half of the things I experience.

The Law of One exposed me not just to the higher workings but the lower ones too, you can say I don't take responsibility for my own actions but I'm the one who admits it was my own mind that deposited me in the hell I experienced, and that it is not my mother who ruins my life so much as controls it, and that I can only do so much about it realistically speaking beyond throwing myself onto the street and starting from the very very bottom.  That isn't irresponsible, it's being stuck.  I admit to being irresponsible in the fact that I don't even know how to be responsible beyond what I've already had to figure out on my own.  To being forgetful about things, to not understanding A LOT of things that many people take for granted in this world.

I think it's only fair to offer at least some benefit of a doubt.  I don't like my situation very much and if I knew how to leave it don't you think I would've tried that?  But instead I sit here trying to think it through, I make motions and then recoil because I change my mind because I don't know.  And I'm never going to know until I try, and typically when I try, I get shut down.

If it's irresponsible to be conditioned to be the way I am, and if it's not acceptable to say I HAVE been conditioned by another to BE THESE WAYS, then I don't know what else there is to say to you other than not everything is on you.  You're not responsible for it all, only how you handle it.

I've handled it poorly, I accept that.  I failed to maintain my own place when I was kicked out.  I failed to maintain my status as a father.  I failed on a lot of fronts Jade, and honestly there's more of me than not that wants to just give up because it all seems to futile and pointless.  The entire system in the Law of One is honestly fuel for upsetting me and disturbing me.  I don't personally review it much anymore because very much of it I've let go of because very much of it does not sound like what I am used to, but rather like a close reflection of it.  I don't believe suicide forces you to repeat an incarnation if your free will as a soul truly chooses not to continue such a lesson.  I don't believe homosexuality is an infringement or unnatural, or that there are discarnate negatives going around filling our heads with thoughts that aren't our own.  I just don't believe half of the stuff mostly said about the negative polarity and a majority of the content looks like perfect cannon fodder to formulate a spiritual elitism.

I believe in the Law of One, but not in the same way most do.  Polarity looks like an excuse made to accelerate something that for no other reason beyond because it was desired, exists.  Catalyst sounds like a wild card to overgeneralize in a sweeping manner an entire ecosystem's worth of spiritual phenomena hiding right in plain sight occurring constantly for reasons that are more than just to be responded to for polarity sake.

So when you say to me, it's all on me.  I look at you and say you're me, so it's on you too.  If you saw someone like me on the streets, would you help me or tell me I'm responsible for my situation and to figure it out on my own?  How do you help someone with the mental issues I have?  Someone who's been abused and warped into disbelief of their self?  You've been especially helpful as have others so I'm not saying you're being irresponsible or unhelpful, just that the responsibility argument has gone through my mind well over a hundred times now and I always come back to the same thing.

There are exceptions to what some can be held responsible for.  I'm not saying my life is one, but I am saying my Mother is one.  I have tried my best to help her, to make her kinder, to make her happy.  I've sacrificed a lot for her sake and am realizing it was too much now.

My responsibility wasn't to myself as much as it was to her, and that mission has failed, Jade, and it makes me miserable to think I couldn't help her.  It makes me scared that if I'm like her, I can't be helped either.  Back in 2014, I can't say responsibility was anything beyond remembering and spontaneously doing.  These days I have to think to remember what age I am, never mind all the stuff going on around my life.  Even with bills, I have alarms and reminders because as I am as a being, my mind doesn't think about those things even when it's trying to.  I get lost in there, and it effects my reality somewhat negatively, but in many ways also positively.  I have a great appreciation for all the little things, I forget the big stuff and hold onto the little things.  I forget to take out the trash because I'm busy trying to be happy.  I forget to clean the kitchen because I'm working on a book.  I forget to empty the pool filters because I walked out there to do it and got mesmerized by how beautiful the sun looks when reflecting on water.

I'm just different...  I don't...Want to be irresponsible, and I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO BE ENABLED to be irresponsible, because your saying it, while upsetting, still points out to be true.  And it bothers me, because on one hand it's my fault, and on the other side of the coin it's not humanely my fault, and not even a 'fault' but a life choice/lesson/plan to go through.

So, just realize that I don't want to be irresponsible, I don't want to not make it in life, I just want to be myself and not...Suffer for it.  That shouldn't be so hard regardless of what the Universe/I choose/s.  In some ways I think the hardest part of my life is coming to an end now that I'm becoming more and more aware of how badly messed up I am.

The doors are revealing themselves to gtfo, I'm just reluctant because, I've never been a very courageous person with change.  Change to me was basically my family falling apart, my friends coming then leaving, and my life moving from one place to another without any real changes.  Change to me is more hurtful and harmful from experience than it is delightful and potential for positive change.  I remember back in 2014 I had to conscientiously tackle my lack of faith for a preference of proof/science, and my lack of courage for belief that things will turn out well.

I'm not kidding when I say whoever I was then is not who I am now, at least in manifestation.  I saw my peak, what I could become, and then when the message sank it, it all left me as I moved into the realization that while everything is important, the opposite is equally true.

So, as another said in another thread about an enlightenment experience I had, I've been exposed to the ENTIRE spectrum in this life.  Darkest darkness to the brightest light, I manifest my soul self and my animal self, and I need to discover how to consciously manifest those attributes without losing control to them, on both sides, in love and despair.

Responsibility is an extremely important lesson to learn in this life, which is probably why my suicide is the farthest thing from a valid choice to make in this life, regardless.  The suffering is to souls in their detached time/space not an issue, whereas down here human's literally design reality to avoid it in their personal lives.

In a sense, Earth is the perfect place to go to be accosted with lessons of responsibility.

I just wish I knew what exactly being responsible entailed, I was never even taught how to brush my teeth or comb my hair, so it's very frightening to think about dealing with debt and bills, yet it's doable, I just have so many feelings on the systems at work here and now on Earth.  Extreme parts of me extremely, obviously, want to not participate in this world's systems.  I greatly do not want to live the rest of my life in a building, I want to eventually be as Brian in the book Hatchet was, find my roots here on Earth, and live a life outside of the...I guess you'd call it yellow ray structures that are so backwards and like scams.  You can love something to the end of your mind, it doesn't change it in reality.  Only you change from loving, everyone else has to choose to let you change them, otherwise nothing actually changes.  Sure you fill the atmosphere with light and love, but my focus wasn't on the planet as much as the beautiful souls all on it.  No matter how much you love them, if you can't get through into them, touch their hearts with yours, it's all superficial, face to face rather than soul to soul.  Endless lies and manipulations by humans who don't know any better but then are demanded to be responsible on a planet where human's are designed to be violent and liars and selfish, but we can't demand anything of the universe in return.

The entire game feels, well, simply put, spiritually wrong, and mostly because it was designed to be that way.  And, everyone is just okay with it.  Then there's me.

Still.  If you can offer any advice on what it means to be responsible, to not let yourself be caught up in fear and uncertainty, to make choices without neutralizing yourself, I'm all ears.  Because I'm looking to find a way, it starts with saving money and getting out of here.  I'm already trying to work through the anxiety of going through the job process to really get on my feet and jump as far away from this place as I can.

I have others so willing to help me, it is inspiring to make me help myself so their kindness isn't a waste.  To not get distracted by diversions from reality like reading or smoking or writing or games.

I do need help, Jade.  It's why I'm here and your words are greatly appreciated.  I just wish I didn't need them to be so sharp to get through my thick skull...