Wanting To Be Indian: When Spiritual Searching Turns into Cultural Theft - By Myke Jo

[smc]

Before I go - when I said I felt I'm not much liked here - that's not a sad feeling. Not at all. So if you think I feel that way you're projecting that onto me.
What I do feel is the defensive energy on B4. And a clique. Not all the time. But a lot of the time. And it's tiring. And (imo) it's toxic.
(And it's not just me that feels this way.)

After visiting here I sometimes feel like I have lots of tiny cuts all over. So I log off, and shower, and go outside and sit in the sunshine.
I just don't want to be amongst this energy. I've tried. No can do.

I sincerely wish you all the very best.


https://unsettlingamerica.wordpress.com/...be-indian/

Wanting To Be Indian: When Spiritual Searching Turns into Cultural Theft - By Myke Jo

Many people are searching for a deeper spiritual engagement with the world, and feel a hunger unmet by the teachings and services of religious institutions. Some have begun to take an interest in Native American spiritual practices, and one can easily find workshops and lectures offering Indian rituals and ceremonies to non-Indian people. However, many Native people, including highly respected religious elders, have condemned such “borrowing.” They identify it as a form of cultural exploitation, gravely detrimental to the survival and well-being of Indigenous people.

In this paper, I will be discussing the ethical questions raised by White peoples’ exploration of the religious ceremonies and beliefs of American Indians.1 What is at work here which makes sincere spiritual searching an act of cultural theft? Why are Native peoples endangered by this interest in their beliefs and rituals? How can we respect the cultural integrity of Indian people, and yet also honor deep-felt spiritual desires?

First, I want to introduce myself in relation to this issue. I am a White woman related by matrilineal ancestry to the Innu people, called by the French Montagnais, who are indigenous to the land which is now called Quebec and Labrador. I grew up in White U.S. Christian culture, with fair skin and red hair, and only a reminder that we were “part-Indian” to link me to any other culture. To be White is to fit into the norm in ways that gives one certain advantages denied to those who are not White. And yet the influence of my Innu great-great-great grandmother also shaped my consciousness in a Métis way. Métis are the people and culture which grew from the intermarriage of Indians and Europeans, especially French and Scottish.

This Métis consciousness makes it more complex and confusing to speak about this issue, even as it lies at the heart of my commitment and responsibility to it. Even grammatically, I question how to use “we” and “they” when I might be included in both, but not quite contained in either category. I have heard many Indian people speak out about these issues. I have decided that it is most useful for me to speak as a White woman, to raise the issues in the context of the feminist spirituality movement of which I am a part, that we might be true to our commitment to the survival and liberation of all people. Furthermore, while for me there is an element of seeking my own Native heritage, the current phenomenon of outside interest in Native spirituality is a phenomenon of White culture, and this White phenomenon affects all of us who find ourselves interested in Native Americans. It has been important for my search to get inside this White thing about Indians, to explore and understand how it works in White people, of which I am a part, so that I can understand how it affects Métis people as well.

Since childhood, I have been a spiritual person. As I was becoming an adult, the values of the gospel led me into political activism on behalf of justice and liberation. This path of justice activism led me to understanding the oppression of women, and of myself as a woman. One of the places where women experience oppression is in the area of spirituality and religion. So feminism instigated for me a spiritual search and a transformation, and with many other women I began to seek and create what we called women’s spirituality. This is when I also began to be interested in Native American spirituality.

There is a phenomenon in White culture which affects any interaction between White people and Native Americans. White culture has created an image and called it “Indian.” But this image is a stereotype, and not really informative or accurate about real Native Americans, who are of many diverse cultures. All of us could give details about this stereotype “Indian.” An important aspect of this stereotype “Indian” is that it has two sides, like the two sides of a coin.

One side of the stereotype Indian is the Hostile Savage – the dangerous, primitive warrior who attacked the settlers of the West, or the irresponsible reservation drunk who couldn’t be trusted, the Indian of which it was said, “the only good Indian is a dead Indian.” The other side of the stereotype Indian is the Noble Savage – the innocent primitive who was naturally spiritual and lived in idyllic harmony close to the earth, the Indian of the Thanksgiving stories who helped the Pilgrims survive. These images are embedded deeply in our culture, and are a subliminal backdrop to any of our interactions with Native people or concepts.

When we hear about Indians sharing spiritual wisdom with White people, they call to mind this second stereotype, the friendly noble Indian. When we hear the anger of Indians, it is easy for the first stereotype Indian to re-emerge, the hostile savage. We might feel angry or defensive or fearful.

It is important to realize that these images are really fantasies – projections of fears and dreams of White people onto those perceived as “other.” While the second image, the noble spiritual wise Indian, might seem to be an improvement on the first, it is actually also harmful to Native people. So for any of us with some desire to learn more about Native people, the first layer we encounter is this layer of distortion, like a mask which obscures the voices and experiences of actual Native peoples.

What is called “Native American spirituality” in various New Age movement settings is actually a part of this distorted image. So-called “Native American spirituality” draws on the “Noble Savage” stereotype, mixed with elements of symbol and ritual from various actual Native religious practices. What interests us about these Indians might be the way they are portrayed as having a spiritual world view, while mainstream culture seems increasingly secular. We might be looking for an emphasis on female deities and positive roles for women, or a focus on the earth, grounded in the interconnectedness of all beings. Men have seen the Indian as an image of manhood to be reclaimed.

These can all be important visions, and contain elements of truth. But the mask is still a mask. Andrea Smith, Cherokee activist and member of Women of All Red Nations, points out,

   The ‘Indian ways’ that these white, new-age ‘feminists’ are practicing have very little basis in reality. …these new agers do not understand Indian people or our struggles for survival and thus can have no genuine understanding of Indian spiritual practices.2

Of course, I didn’t know any of this right away. I mentioned that spirituality had led me into political activism. As part of my journey, I was also drawn into political activity with Native people. It was in this context that I began to learn about the lives and issues faced by actual Native Americans. I learned about the continued theft of the land and displacement of its inhabitants. I learned about forced acculturation through forbidding people to practice their religions, sending their children to boarding schools, and forbidding them to speak their languages. I learned about the mining of coal and uranium on reservations with disregard for the consequences on the lives of the communities there. And on and on.

I also learned about the reclamation of Indian pride and identity and the history of resistance to genocide. I learned about current resistance: A.I.M. and Alcatraz and the Wounded Knee occupation. I learned about people like Anna Mae Pictou Aquash and Leonard Peltier. Eventually, I met the Innu people of my own heritage, who have been currently engaged in a battle against the destruction of their land and way of life as they try to stop the building of a huge hydroelectric project, the Saint Marguerite 3 dam. These real people and real struggles began to cut through the stereotypes fostered by our culture, and help me to understand about Native American realities today.

In this way I began to see the vast differences between what was being promoted as “Native American spirituality” and what was actually true for Native peoples’ lives. These differences are not something that can be corrected with more accurate recordings of ceremonies or better teachers. Rather, they are about context and underlying values. They are about power and a history of colonialism.

It is important to look at the bigger context for these questions. We get used to thinking of ethics as an individual matter, where good intentions are uppermost, and right or wrong is something we each of us choose. These are important, but there is another way of thinking about ethics which I find helpful here. That is social ethics–looking at the structures of society and their impact on people. The context here is structural racism.

Structural racism is a system of oppression in which the structures of society are operated and controlled by White people. Racism combines prejudice against people of color with political, economic, and social power over their lives. Racism is in the air we breathe. It is not so much about individual guilt or innocence, as it is an atmosphere of injustice with which we all have to reckon in some way.

We live in a colonialist society. It was built upon the European theft of land. It was built by conquering and destroying the nations of people already here, and it continues its assault on Native lands and culture. This isn’t something we chose, but something we inherited, and thus have to reckon with.

It is in this context that Native Americans identify the use of Native symbols and ceremonies as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation is a form of racism. Cultural appropriation is a weapon in the process of colonization. Cultural appropriation is when a dominating or colonizing people take over the cultural and religious ceremonies and articles of a people experiencing domination or colonization. When Euro-Americans take Native American symbols and ceremonies and use them for our own purposes, we are participating in the process of colonization and the destruction of Native culture.

Janet McCloud, Tulalip elder and fishing rights activist, tells us,

   First they came to take our land and water, then our fish and game. …Now they want our religions as well. All of a sudden, we have a lot of unscrupulous idiots running around saying they’re medicine people. And they’ll sell you a sweat lodge ceremony for fifty bucks. It’s not only wrong, its obscene. Indians don’t sell their spirituality to anybody, for any price. This is just another in a very long series of thefts from Indian people and, in some ways, this is the worst one yet.3

Cultural appropriation is a theft from a people, and also a distortion, a lie spread about a people. It is an assault on the cultural integrity of Native people, and ultimately threatens even the survival of Native people.

When We live in the history of this theft and domination, how do we get to a place of positive connection or cultural sharing? Unfortunately, sincerity is not enough. As I see it, there are three different traps we can fall into as we attempt to reckon with Native American people.

[Minyatur]

I know you are not yet done posting and will happily read the following posts as I don't see a problem with shedding light on the sorrow of others in itself. Still, while I understand your concern, I think it comes down to the very nature of catalyst, it's purpose and also where the evolution of this world is headed.

What is catalyst and what is the purpose of catalyst? I already shared my take on this but maybe it could be well to have your own take. Maybe you don't see a point to catalyst, maybe you don't see how it can be desirable of itself for the ones who experience catalyst, if so then it makes quite a lot of sense we won't find common ground to talk and I should just let you post that which you desire to post without further comments.

To me, the thing is that this planet is moving toward 4D energies and the mentality you share seems dissonant with these energies, or least least does seem so to me.
4D is a plane of transparency of thought and experience, it is a plane where all are seen as the Creator, where self and other-selves are understood to be One in their separate experience and as such the experience of one is the experience of all, the thoughts of one are the thoughts of all and the experiences/thoughts of others are one with you.

To me the movement toward 4D includes the letting go of cultural identity and barriers among individuals. A clinging to be part of a certain group of individuals and dissociation with other groups is dissonant with this movement and might very well be one of the root reason the harvest could be small, because people won't desire to be one with the people of the earth as their heart yearns for a sense of separated identity from others in their evolution. I think the October 1st Q'uo channeling adressed this (Gary: How could the souls who are wounded by war best recover and be made whole again?)

Discussing the reasons why these states of imbalances appeared is well if you desire to balance these energies, if not then they are accentuated and the heart of separation is reinforced.

[BlatzAdict]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I really feel like with the OP type of mentality you can literally take anything into a victim hood complex, you're saying that you're above it but then you're writing about an indigenous culture being diluted because people of non indigenous status have no right to do so and practice in the cultural tradition.

isn't that racist? it's like saying only asians can study kung fu, which i find really really really insulting. Instead of being more understanding of different cultures, you're trying to appropriate them all in the mindset of the westerner.

Everyone is a laid back and nice person when you get to know them, even the worlds controllers are nice, that doesn't make what they are doing right just because they are nice.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, you energetically feed what you pay your mind to. It's only giving more energetic food to negative greetings and entities IMO.

I'm pretty sure that is racist bro, I've lived under the guise of racism my whole life, and a large amount of it comes from people trying to compare or judge a culture, not from that cultures standpoint but from your own. It's folly to do so and just ignorant.

[Minyatur]

Everyone is a laid back and nice person when you get to know them, even the worlds controllers are nice, that doesn't make what they are doing right just because they are nice.

Everyone is literally perfect, confusion and lack of perception is what makes anyone (one) act the way they (it) do(es).

[Diana]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I really feel like with the OP type of mentality you can literally take anything into a victim hood complex, you're saying that you're above it but then you're writing about an indigenous culture being diluted because people of non indigenous status have no right to do so and practice in the cultural tradition.

isn't that racist? it's like saying only asians can study kung fu, which i find really really really insulting. Instead of being more understanding of different cultures, you're trying to appropriate them all in the mindset of the westerner.

Everyone is a laid back and nice person when you get to know them, even the worlds controllers are nice, that doesn't make what they are doing right just because they are nice.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, you energetically feed what you pay your mind to. It's only giving more energetic food to negative greetings and entities IMO.

I'm pretty sure that is racist bro, I've lived under the guise of racism my whole life, and a large amount of it comes from people trying to compare or judge a culture, not from that cultures standpoint but from your own. It's folly to do so and just ignorant.

I am in agreement with both Minyatur and Blatz. 

(Total aside here: I have never told you Blatz that I love your avatar and it makes me smile or downright laugh every time I see it.)

I do not see the efficacy of holding knowledge tightly within a culture, government, elite group, etc. It separates—puts some on this side of the in-the-know fence and the rest on that side of the in-the-know fence. Why not just share? It's up to whomever hears that information to discern for themselves. 

The bottom line is that no one can take away your integrity. Dilution happens all over this world today, because everybody is doing everything and the media is huge.

I honestly think that cultural separations are debilitating, even the fact that we speak different languages. It sets up a situation where we can't understand one another. Preserving cultural traditions for posterity is one thing, but clinging to them is another, and claiming them to be for an elite group only is selfish. I do not mean to belittle the devastation man has perpetrated upon indigenous cultures (I, myself, am 1/4 Iroquois).

The Jewish religion comes to mind. What is the efficacy of clinging to old testament so-called covenants and crazy outdated commands about how to prepare and eat food? In our world today, we have much bigger issues to deal with such as global starvation and warming. We need to stop factory farming animals for instance, not stay in the very narrow groove of worrying about what is unclean.

Also, you claim not to be liked here. Please don't be so sensitive. If I was worried about being liked here I would have left in 2011.  You are no more different than the other members who sometimes find it challenging to be here in this existence. Stand up for your ideas and theories and accept others' opinions—it opens up doors for all of us.

[isis]

I know *'m quite disliked here.

the reality is probably that no one here dislikes you. they may disagree with you at times...but doesn't mean they dislike you.

i love your new username, btw. best one yet.

[Night Owl]

In short you receive as much love from b4 as you send them.... It's only a mirror of yourself. You want to be understood and loved? Then love and understand others. It's not really more complicated than that. I don't think you are not loved here. I think you somehow project a self love issue on others. B4 members are actually just awaiting to love you, but they can only do as much as you let them. The energies you receive from the universe is the energy you send to the universe. Always.

[BlatzAdict]

i am leisurely holding a wine glass, and a wooden pipe. 


in a leisure pose laying on a couch wearing a bathroom robe.. come i will show you my tribble collection. have some Tranya.


I know i know a thousand questions. But first the Tranya.

[Glow]

I am so confused by the cultural appropriation issue.
I guess I could see an issue if someone was irreverent or developed some sort of ego by claiming association with some culture they are detached from in this life but honestly we have likely already been most races. Our physical incarnations don't define our identity the spirit that travels through those incarnations does.

I have past life flashes from Ancient Iceland, one as a native on perhaps a different globe, and I have had a flash as being African, when I took up yoga I found myself doing moves I had never seen naturally as if in an order I knew, somehow I have an innate knowledge of crystals and the power of intent in magic, I'm white Euro/cross living in Canada. Am I really limited to any of that? I'm spirit.

As an aside I don't hate or dislike anyone here.
If this is an issue that bothers you do what you must.

[isis]

stay tuned for the next instalment : The first trap... (can anyone guess what is it?) (yes * know no one read all this and *'m talking to my Elf)

DENIAL.

i'm part seminole indian.

[Kaaron]

I like you...
I feel you on the vibe around here.
Some seem to have a "facebooky" approach to spirituality, in my opinion. Putting only what they want out there, in an attempt to come across in a certain way.
I see alot of cases where those that don't know, talk and those that do know, let it all play out...until it gets out of hand and then chime in with a voice of reason. The newly awoken are full of words, sometimes in greater abundance than sense...so alot turn up with all the answers. Then get upset when their ego becomes apparent and leave or unregister in a huff but not before letting alot of members know how unreasonable and up themselves they are.
I have the above tendancies, so I'll put it out there. I used to care what people thought about the way I said stuff on here. I would make sure I tried to word everything in "Law of One" jargon etc.
Now I just do me, cos I can go read the Law of One if I want to be told about what Ra would say. I wanna know what WE say.

Just wanted to say that.
And that you come across as someone passionate about those who are oppressed...that's awesome and what we need to usher in the new world.
Don't worry too much about the details of s*** tho yo...there will always be those of us who think "we should all just get on and hold hands" and those who are trying to hold onto some semblance of dignity in a dying culture.
I feel that the balance, is realizing that we now live in 4D, so let the culture die and watch the new be reborn, as the worldwide "way" that is to come. Hold hands and rebirth a new culture.

[smc]

Final Post/s to Bring4th:

(Information to help provide an overview for members.)

These are the main people I've been in contact with about "Hohongwitutwia".

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1.0

PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP: All New People Must Read

New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans or NAFPS is an activist group of Native people and our supporters. We began NAFPS five years ago as a Yahoo club/group and went through a lot together, at least eight unsuccessful attempts to shut us down, empty threats of lawsuits, stalkers, identity thieves, libel campaigns, and even death threats. We have emerged from it all relatively unscathed and more determined than ever to continue our work.

Ths group and forum is for those concerned about the fraud, deceit, money hunger, sexual abuse, racism, control, hunger for power and ego, and cult-like tendencies of the New Age movement and pseudo "shamans." We investigate and seek to warn the public about impostors and exploiters posing as Native medicine people or elders. There are more than two hundred impostors out there posing as Cherokee medicine people alone. Multiply that by five hundred Native nations in the US, and add on the exploiters who abuse or lie about practices of Latin America's Indians, and you get an idea of the sheer, massive scope of the problem.

WHAT NAFPS IS AND IS NOT:

1) We are not a "hate" group, any more than a rape crisis center promotes "hate" of men. This is one of the more ridiculous knee-jerk claims thrown at us. Many Nuage frauds are themselves blatantly racist in their contempt for Native people, beliefs, and wishes on these issues.

If anything we are an ANTI-hate group, a HateWatch group specializing in monitoring and warning the public about a special brand of racist, the Nuage fraud or pseudo-shaman leader.

Frankly, most of us in here *don't really care* what the blood quantum, enrollment status, or family history of anyone in here are.

The only time we would care was if someone had lied in order to "pass" or appear "more Indian" to justify their misbehavior.

We accept all kinds of people in here: Native, white, black, Latino, Maori, traditionalist, Christian, pagan, atheist, Muslim, etc.  

We have members from an amazing variety of tribal backgrounds, Anishinaabe, Apache, Cherokee, Choctaw, Lakota, Lenni Lenape, Menominee, Munsee, Navajo, O'odham, and many others.

We gladly accept help from all good people of conscience, because without them we can't stop these frauds. And without them, we wouldn't have had nearly as much success against frauds as we have.

What NAFPS Does, & How We Are Different From Nuage Frauds

1) No one at NAFPS has ever sold ceremonies, workshops, seminars, healings, readings, "asteroid avoidance courses" (yes, some frauds actually do), or anything else like that.

2) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to be a medicine man, elder, healer, wiseman, "don", "ascended master", "avatar", holy man, or anything else that frauds claim to be.

3) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to be descended from Geronimo, Chief Joseph, Black Elk, etc.

4) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to have "channeled" or be the "reincarnation" of those same famous people.

5) No one at NAFPS ever told the gullible, vulnerable, and desperate that they had to put out to take part in a made up ceremony, give head, be sodomized, whipped, and even pay to be sexually abused. No one at NAFPS ever molested children as part of their roles as alleged "great leaders".

6) No one at NAFPS has ever lied or deceived for a living.

7) No one at NAFPS has ever formed a cult around themselves.

8) No one at NAFPS has ever threatened lawsuits at anyone that disagreed with them.

9) No one at NAFPS has ever tried to isolate the people who listen to them from other people, often breaking up families in the process.

10) No one at NAFPS has ever regarded spirituality selling and pay to pray as an acceptable way to make a buck. (Often tens or even hundreds of thousands of them.)

We at NAFPS make no claim to perfection. But...

1) We do research the information we put out.

2) We seek to *prevent* harm to people, not cause harm.

Except to frauds, who we merely wish to bankrupt, drive out of business, or see thrown in jail for some of the worst abuses.

3) That means we take great care with our warnings and pronouncements.

We *do* retract or alter them if new information comes out, or if we inadvertently harm people.

4) We feel free to disagree among ourselves. That much should be obvious.

No one is punished for simple dissent. In more than four years, we've only kicked out perhaps half a dozen people, and in each case after they'd severely disrupted the group for weeks at a time.

5) And this gets down to the final point, again worth repeating:

We are not a "hate" group, but are about as ANTI racist as can be.

Frankly, most of us in here *don't really care* what the blood quantum, enrollment status, or family history of anyone in here are.

The only time we would care was if someone had lied in order to "pass" or appear "more Indian" to justify their misbehavior.

We accept all kinds of people in here. We gladly accept help from all good people of conscience, because without them we can't stop these frauds. And without them, we wouldn't have had nearly as much success against frauds as we have.

Welcome to NAFPS. Feel free to ask questions or comment.

Okay - next:

I'll now post a copy of the investigation NAFPS has already had on:

"Upaava - Your Brother -Hohongwitutiwa- Daniel" - 'Upaava' aka 'Joel Cohen' aka 'Jim Kimmey' aka 'John Cohen' aka 'John Kimmey'

NB: Whether they are all one person I don't yet know. But what applies to 'Upaava' investigated by NAFPS applies equally to B4th's 'Upaava'.

And remember, we have recently had "Hohongwitutiwa" post:

I would like to take a moment to speak about a friend of mine: John Kimmey...  

...I am proud to say John was a friend who shared Hopi knowledge as he learned it and as Kikmongwi David told him to share it. In the talks he gave in his later life, John used the Earth Mother book, recognizing its authenticity and truth. You will no doubt find websites berating John as a fraud, me too, but those sites are filled with misinformation and ignorance of the facts of true Hopi life, as only those who are part of that life truly understand.

So his connection to a known fraud of Hopi is established. Whether he is one in the same person NAFPS hasn't yet established.

  October 27, 2016, 07:45:31 am
NAFPS Forum » General » Research Needed » Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava  (Read 3504 times)
educatedindian
Administrator
  *****
  Posts: 4098
Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« on: July 20, 2010, 07:13:40 pm »

Got a request about him. Seems to be mostly delusional rather than out for profit, but spreads a lot of minsinformation. Here was my response, what I found in a brief search:

Cohen mostly shows up online at a number of spirituality sites trying to convince others of his claims. Except at Indianz.com, where he showed up in 2005 and was mocked quite a bit.

His profile at linkedin.com says he is in the higher education field in Chicago.

His profile at beliefnet says:

"I am a man, now in his sixties...

My background provides me with two different points of view, two different worldviews from which to see and understand the Universe: one from my upbringing and education in mainstream America; and the other from my training and experiences as an adopted member (according to their traditions) of an ancient indigenous people....

I have been sharing these matters with others as a brother (on the Internet, in local talks, and in a university project)...

I hold a B.A. and M.A. at a major university, where my studies have included native peoples, psychology, philosophy, and a broad spectrum of sciences."

I think he's essentially a retired Jewish teacher from Chicago who became fixated on the Hopi to try and find a sense of purpose in his life. He's not out to make money off of prophecies, but he does want attention and spreads lots of false information.

In the thread at Indianz he claims his adopted father died in 1999 at age 102. That fits with the false claims all over the internet by Roy Steevenzs, a Dutch-Indonesian man who calls himself "Roy Littlesun" who was expelled from the Hopi Nation for disruption, making false claims about a Hopi elder, and fundraising for a phony charity. My guess is he found the claims by Steevensz and is repeating them.

I will start a research thread and see if we can find out anything more.

http://alcarroll.com
www.spiritsforsale.com/Webbplats_2/Participants.html
www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AlCarroll
www.lulu.com/spotlight/AlCaroll
www.amazon.com/Al-Carroll/e/B00IZ4FY1S
www.linkedin.com/pub/alton-carroll/13/846/52
www.youtube.com/watch?v=roZL8KJKNfA
========================

educatedindian
Administrator
  *****
  Posts: 4098
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 02:38:47 pm »

Seems he's gotten much worse, peddling his ideas with many frauds like Calleman.

This site is selling seminars for the 2012 hoax. The listing for Cohen shows a small photo of him, a balding grey bearded white man.

http://www.cycles.cc/2012.htm#

Clicking the link marked "adopted tribe member" pulls up this nonsense.

----------------
http://www.cycles.cc/cohen.htm
Joel Cohen
Mother Earth
Earth Cycles
As a young man in the 1960's, Joel met his first spiritual mentor, unbeknown to most a wise and spiritually gifted elder quietly serving our world. From their discussions and the remarkable experiences that occurred in the holy company of his mentor, Joel perceived a larger reality to life and Nature than known in his earlier experiences. During the ensuing years he met his native father, a holy man of an ancient indigenous people who adopted him as his son and member of the tribe. Joel was initiated in the ancient knowledge they had preserved, pertaining to our living Mother Earth, and the cycle within nature that progresses life within sun systems, sometimes called “The Sacred Path or Pattern of Migration.”

Joel shared this knowledge together with his adoptive father until his father’s death past age 100. Joel has continued sharing this information in talks, on the Internet, in a university project, and in a book for more than ten years now.

Joel holds a B.A., and M.A. from the University of Illinois, is a certified hypnotherapist, and, earlier in his life was qualified by Naval Reactors, a division of the Atomic Energy Commission, as an operator of S1C and S5W nuclear engineering plants. About a year and a half of his life was spent under the oceans of the world operating a Polaris submarine nuclear plant.

About This Knowledge

According to the knowledge kept by his adoptive people, and others, we have reentered an ancient cycle, a period which has been known by different names down the ages: the Q’ero Incan people call it “Pachacuti,” some Mayan elders call it “The Shift of The Ages,” The Hopi refer to it as “Purification Time”; it is also known as “The Time of Tribulation,” “The Earth’s Birth Pains,” and “Judgement Day,”....

“I will be presenting this information as best as I can as it was taught to me by my mentors, especially my adoptive native father. It is a giveaway, which means that it is not for sale, but belongs to everyone and is being restored as such. I take no pay for doing this, and any profits due me from the sale of DVDs of this conference have been referred to a Native American charitable organization I have no connection to. This knowledge relates to the Mayan & Hopi information that other speakers will be presenting...."

---------------

And yet, the supposed charity is unnamed. The supposed elder/adoptive father is unnamed. Likely Cohen is making false claims, because it sounds strikingly what Roy Steevensz said about a Hopi elder.

Other frauds at the seminar:
Carl Calleman, Swedish toxicologist who claims to be an expert on Mayan prophecy, behind much of the 2012 hoaxing
John Kimmey, who has spread enormous falsehoods about the Hopi, and even claims to be a Huna and Buddhist teacher
http://dancingawakethefifthworld.com/joh...ey_bio.php

Strange this is, the seminar is being peddled by an institute that studies economic cycles. I wonder what they see in this. Do they think the panic in some circles around the 2012 hoax will affect the economy?

http://alcarroll.com
www.spiritsforsale.com/Webbplats_2/Participants.html
www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AlCarroll
www.lulu.com/spotlight/AlCaroll
www.amazon.com/Al-Carroll/e/B00IZ4FY1S
www.linkedin.com/pub/alton-carroll/13/846/52
www.youtube.com/watch?v=roZL8KJKNfA
=====================

snorks
Posts: 99
 Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 06:00:44 pm »

The institute is considered by many economists to be "fringe".  I used to edit various papers for two economic journals. (Federal Reserve Board's "International Finance Discussion Papers" was one.) Yes, economists do study business cycles but they do not include "the theory of everything" to explain various cycles.

This Institute wants to see what solar flares have on economic activity, etc.  This institute has been around for years, and does generate some interest but not by mainline economists.  So it would stand to reason that they would be interested in what will happen in 2012.  This event is different from Y2K which was studied since that event required businesses to spend money to update their systems, and did have the potential to disrupt commerce.  What effect that the 2012 event would have on business in general is beyond me.  (Other than a cottage industry which sprang up selling books and things.)
=====================

ManyMansions
Posts: 6
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 10:01:07 pm »
 
... thank you for the updates.  John Cohen/AKA A Brother, Upaava has been peddling his message on Unknowncountry.com for just over a year.  I read his e-book, as a give-a-way (as he states), and it's mumbled with every other religious text known to man.  I have yet to find Hopi Prophecy on the world-wide-web which, suggests, I will not find true Hopi Prophecies but rather a mix bag of broken goods.  I have also come across other blogs where John Cohen is peddling his message of doom'n'gloom and others too have questioned Mr Cohen and I have yet to read his answers to any direct question pertaining to his knowledge.
=======================

ManyMansions

  Posts: 6
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 05:55:22 pm »

Educator, native-seed pioneer, Hopi-prophecy interpreter and former Santa Fe resident John Kimmey died from cancer last month in Crestone, Colo. He was 71.

Cremation has taken place but a memorial reception is planned for 1 p.m. May 15 at the New Buffalo Compound in Arroyo Hondo north of Taos.

Kimmey was born on March 29, 1940, in Portland, Ore., to Hazel and James Kimmey, who later moved to the Bay Area of California.

In high school, John Kimmey was active in theater and music, later performing as a drummer with jazz musicians. He served in the Navy in Japan and the Philippines.

In 1965, he moved to New Mexico and obtained teaching certification from the College of Santa Fe in 1967. The next year, Kimmey, wife Marie, Charlie Bentley and Ed Nagel founded the Santa Fe Community School.

In an interview in The New Mexican in 1994, the late Matthew Schwartzman recalled how a fundraiser for Kimmey's school in the 1960s was broken up by the police at the behest of then-Municipal Judge R.E. "Cuate" Chavez, who feared "there was going to be this big hippie be-in and the girls would get naked."

In 1972, Kimmey helped start Taos Learning Centers. In the early 1980s, he taught at the Hopi Nation's Hotvilla-Bacavi Community School on the Third Mesa in Arizona, where he developed an interest in Hopi prophecies through his mentor, David Montongye. Kimmey traveled to New Zealand, Mexico and Canada to talk about the prophecies and wrote two books about them, Light on the Return Path: A Spiritual Survival Manual and The Jack Hopper Trilogy: The Story of a Coyote's Success.

In 2000, the Hopi Nation asked Kimmey to stop telling non-Indians about their prophecies because they are sacred, secret information that should be controlled by the Hopis. Kimmey responded that Montongye and other elders who had given him permission to deliver the prophecies to whites were all dead, so, "I've got a bunch of ghosts to support me, and that's about all."

During the 1980s, while at the Southwest Learning Centers, Kimmey and Seth Roffman founded the Talavaya Center near Española to conserve native agricultural crops by propagating seeds grown for centuries in New Mexico. They developed a seed bank of more than 600 heirloom varieties. In 1985, the United Nations honored him for his efforts in preserving traditional agriculture.

Kimmey returned to Taos in 1987 to found the Sustainable Native Agriculture Center. He traveled to the Northwest to continue his work with native crops, as well as continuing to talk about Hopi prophecies.

In 2004, he moved to Hawaii, where he learned about Huna ceremonial and Buddhist healing practices. After returning to Santa Fe for several years, he moved to Crestone two years ago.

Kimmey is survived by his companion, Marion Harris; his sister, Joan Crowder; three children, Sean Kimmey, Heather Anderson and Erin Kimmey; seven grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/localne...r-learning
=================================

educatedindian
Administrator
  *****
Posts: 4098
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 09:09:23 pm »

When someone, even those with dubious claims and the outright harmful, passes on, we generally move the thread to Archives and mark it No Longer a Matter of Concern.

The exception to that is when there are those continuing to misuse the false information. So we have threads on Castaneda, Robt Franzone, etc.

Cohen is a strange case. No effort made to profit off of falsehoods, but a huge amount of falsehoods spread. A quick search turns up many links to his name. (Not all his, some are for similar words in Hinduism.)

The links he put up are still out there and, not being commercial paid sites, probably will stay there indefinitely. Should we move this thread to Archives or keep it here?

http://alcarroll.com
www.spiritsforsale.com/Webbplats_2/Participants.html
www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AlCarroll
www.lulu.com/spotlight/AlCaroll
www.amazon.com/Al-Carroll/e/B00IZ4FY1S
www.linkedin.com/pub/alton-carroll/13/846/52
www.youtube.com/watch?v=roZL8KJKNfA
=======================

nemesis
Posts: 527
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 09:11:51 am »

My thoughts, for what it's worth....

I know nothing about this person apart from what I have read here and I am not in a position to provide an informed opinion about him personally, however some things stood out for me when I read the thread, which are as follows:

Quote from: ManyMansions on July 28, 2010, 10:01:07 pm

  ... thank you for the updates.  John Cohen/AKA A Brother, Upaava has been peddling his message on Unknowncountry.com for just over a year.  I read his e-book, as a give-a-way (as he states), and it's mumbled with every other religious text known to man.  I have yet to find Hopi Prophecy on the world-wide-web which, suggests, I will not find true Hopi Prophecies but rather a mix bag of broken goods.  I have also come across other blogs where John Cohen is peddling his message of doom'n'gloom and others too have questioned Mr Cohen and I have yet to read his answers to any direct question pertaining to his knowledge.

also

Quote from: educatedindian on November 30, 2011, 09:09:23 pm

  Cohen is a strange case. No effort made to profit off of falsehoods, but a huge amount of falsehoods spread. A quick search turns up many links to his name. (Not all his, some are for similar words in Hinduism.)

  The links he put up are still out there and, not being commercial paid sites, probably will stay there indefinitely. Should we move this thread to Archives or keep it here?


I have concerns about free ebooks and other "freebies" offered by newage frauds, simply because such things can be used by criminals to infect the computers of the unwary with spyware for various criminal motives.

I have no idea if this is the case with the "freebies" of Joel Cohen AKA Upaava, but if the many links still on the www relating to his work are links offering downloadable "freebies" then this is definitely cause for concern.

Even if Joel Cohen / Upaava did not make infected downloadable items available, there is the very real possibility that other newage criminals (of which there are many as we all know) will use the popularity and wide availability of his "work" as an opportunity to infect the computers of the unwary.

I appreciate that this is tangential to the issue of Joel Cohen / Upaava and what category he should be placed in.  I do not consider myself sufficiently informed about him to be able to give an opinion in that respect, but I thought that it might be worth sharing my concerns about all the links and downloads regarding him that are still around.
=======================

ManyMansions
Posts: 6
Re: Joel Cohen AKA Upaava
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 06:09:01 pm »

Nothing new to report. Just wishing the best for all involved and I am gratefully thankful for this website and the value of important, truthful, insights provided throughout.
=======================

Okay: in this last week I've written to NAFPS providing them with Hohongwitutiwa's posts to B4 (and my replies). The main admin/mod has replied in a pm thanking me - and I haven't put any pressure on asking them for any further esearch... it's not my place to.

And they're very busy RIGHT THIS MOMENT involved with:

"Standing Rock tribe protests over North Dakota pipeline"

Clashes erupt as police break up protest camp in the path of pipeline construction that threatens sacred land.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictu...18748.html

Cannon Ball, United States - Thousands of Native Americans have been camping out in North Dakota since April to protest against a pipeline that is meant to cross sacred burial grounds and the Missouri river - the main water source for the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.
Last week, some protesters moved their camp directly in the path of the proposed pipeline as construction nears the river, but on Thursday morning, police descended on the camp with a show of force not yet seen in the months of peaceful protests.
Clad in riot gear and backed by armoured vehicles, the police cleared the protest camp, using sound cannons, pepper spray, taser guns, and shotguns said to contain beanbags against the protesters.

More than 100 people were arrested, including elders praying peacefully in the roadway, according to the Morton County Sheriff Department.

As this recent post from the NAFPS website shows:

Global Moderator
  ***** Posts: 3101
#NoDAPL #StandWithStandingRock Situation is Escalating
« on: October 27, 2016, 10:32:37 pm »

If you are the praying type, I am asking for prayers, for our NAFPS members, advisors, relatives and loved ones on the front line protecting the water and land in North Dakota right now. The situation is deadly and desperate.

Today the pipeline security and law enforcement has escalated severely, throwing concussion grenades at our people, firing "beanbag" rifles into crowds of unarmed water protectors, dragging off people kneeling in prayer.

This has been happening all summer, and is a big reason why things have been quiet around here. Some of our elder members, some of our younger members, many of our core members, are either on the front lines or working to support the front lines through helping with supplies, communications and media. But today everything has intensified. In the USA, aside from some daytime spots on Headline News (basic cable) and Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC, there has been a complete media blackout in the Mainstream Media. Most coverage has come from alternative outlets like Democracy Now, with the  most reliable reports from normal people livestreaming on social media like Facebook and twitter, when we haven't been blocked from uploading and sharing.

Right now the cops are shooting people at point-blank range with "rubber" bullets, which are big, plastic projectiles that can kill. The cops are trying to shoot horses dead and Natives are putting their bodies in between the horses and the guns. Please pray. Hard. And if you are a warrior and can stand, get there. NOW.

Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/hashtag/NoDAPL?src=hash
Facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=%23NoDAPL

Lastly - in case all the above isn't sufficient to show to members the abusiveness of cultural appropriation/fraud: here is additional information about how many Hopi imposters exist and hurt the real Hopi people:

https://www.psiram.com/en/index.php/Hopi...Prophecies

Hopi and Pseudo Hopi Prophecies

Hopi Indians live in one of the most remote regions in the world, the desert in the southwestern United States. Understanding Hopi culture, and Hopi spiritual beliefs in particular, is extremely difficult. The Hopi have survived as a distinct culture for thousands of years by withdrawing from outsiders to avoid conflict. Part of this includes keeping Hopi spiritual traditions as secret as possible from non-Hopi. Hopi practices are so secretive that its members are today legally barred from discussing their religion without express permission from the tribal council. Outsiders are barred from Hopi ceremonies and religious sites, and meddling of any kind in Hopi affairs by non-Hopi is explicitly barred[1]. In 1997, a meeting by the Hopi religious priesthoods decided to restrict access to Hopi villages. The meeting condemned “new-age interpretation and appropriation of Hopi religious practices [and]…self appointed leaders and spokespersons.”[2] Thus any outsider claiming to represent the Hopi, or claiming to be teaching Hopi traditions or expounding on Hopi prophecy is either engaged in deception or fraud, or deluded. Several outsiders claiming to be Hopi spokesmen actually suffer from mental illness.

The central reason for Hopi secrecy is the frequent lies, distortions, and abuse of their spiritual traditions. Their isolation and semi-pacifism (most Hopi will only fight if directly attacked) leads many outsiders to deeply romanticize and exoticize Hopi tradition, projecting their fantasies of a purer and better world upon them. Spiritual exploiters and imposters have frequently taken advantage of the longings of such seekers, seeking to build cults, influence, and power, and gain money or sexually abuse their followings.

The Hopi Nation issued a warning in 2002 entitled, “Cultural Theft and Misrepresentation”: "Over the years many individuals, both Hopi and non-Hopi, have purposely distorted and exploited Hopi spirituality and the Hopi way of life to suit their own ends. The reasons for this misrepresentation vary as much as the people who engage in it. The most common motives, however, are notoriety, profit, or political manipulation. Irrespective of the intent, it all results in an unwanted intrusion by outsiders on the Hopi way of life.

Many, and perhaps most, Hopi people believe that religion is a private matter and that there is already too much information available to non-Hopis about Hopi spirituality. A great deal of knowledge that may have been shared with guests as a courtesy or as privileged information, even in moments of undeserved trust, has been published. These published accounts, be they accurate or misleading, have been misused to replicate Hopi ceremonies and spirituality for profit. In many cases, information has been altered in a way that ignores any spiritual context and religious significance.

Beware of any individual or organization using the Hopi name to promote spiritual workshops, seminars or other "religious" activities. It is not a Hopi cultural value to try and convert non-Hopi people to Hopi religious beliefs or ways. And, sharing religious knowledge for profit is unacceptable to most Hopi people.

Hopi religion is so complex that it is impossible for any one Hopi, traditional group or political faction within Hopi, to know it entirely. Hopi culture and religion as a whole is multifaceted, but there are also variations from village to village, and much of the Hopi ceremonial cycle is secret even among the Hopi. Specific clans and societies are responsible for different aspects of the ceremonial cycle, which in its entirety, make a complementary whole.

Beware, then, of any one person professing to be a traditional spokesperson for the Hopi or even a "traditional’ Hopi. No one person can possibly speak for all Hopi people. Some who profess to do so do not practice the beliefs of Hopi religion or participate in its priesthoods.

The following list includes non-Hopi individuals who are known to profit from Hopi spirituality and culture. Contrary to their claims, none of these individuals are Hopi (either through birth or adoption), represent the Hopi, or speak for any Hopi "elders." We urge you not to donate any money to their causes, purchase their literature, or attend their gatherings."[3]


The Hopi Nation warnings went on to specifically warn about the following people falsely claiming to know or teach Hopi prophecy:

   Katherine Cheshire AKA Dep See Mana or Dee See Mana and Touch the Earth Foundation. The warning condemned her for programs and workshops on Native spirituality.
   Warren Goodman. The warning condemned him for falsely claiming to be Pahana of Hopi legend, falsely claiming possession of sacred stone tablets that are part of Hopi oral tradition, for selling "Armageddon Insurance," and for falsely claiming petrified wood to be medicine wheels, which are not even part of Hopi tradition.
   Thomas Mails, a Catholic priest and the author of The Hopi Survival Kit and other works. The warning condemned Mails for falsely claiming the late Dan Evehema to be a Hopi elder. Evehema did not have any authority to speak on behalf of the Hopi. The warning also condemned Mails for depicting Hopi traditions out of context, incompletely, and inaccurately. The Hopi Nation appealed to Mails to stop. Mails refused the requests.
   Roy Steevensz AKA Roy Little Sun, who is Indonesian but impersonates being a Hopi elder. Steevensz was permanently banned from the Hopi Reservation in 1995 after using the names of Hopi elders in a fraudulent charity. His ex-wife described him as suffering from mental illness worsened by drug abuse.
   Christopher Walker, who falsely claims to have permission from the Hopi to perform ceremonies, many of which are not even Hopi such as Sundances and sweatlodges.
   The late Craig Carpenter was a man of mixed Mohawk and white ancestry claiming to be a Hopi messenger. Condemned by the Hopi tribal council, Carpenter spoke frequently in Europe. A friend, Gary Morris, described Carpenter as suffering greatly from mental illness until his death in 2006.[4]
   Robert Stoup AKA Limping Snow Wolf variously claims to be Lenape or Seneca, and poses as a keeper of Hopi prophecy. The Hopi Nation issued a cease and desist order to him, but Stoup continues his impersonation.[5]
   John Kimney, a white man who calls himself Eesawu, was formally asked by the Hopi Nation to quit posing as a keeper of Hopi prophecy. The tribal preservation office was especially angered by Kimney making money off his claims about prophecy. Kimney at first agreed to stop, then reneged on his promise.[6]
   Robert Morning Sky claims to be Hopi and Apache. He first came to public attention because of the so called Hopi Blue Star Prophecies. But Morning Sky himself admits that he invented the Blue Star Prophecies and they are not part of actual Hopi tradition or prophecy. An article titled, "The Blue Star Hoax" that appeared in LEADING EDGE #95, included this passage. *“Among other things, Morning Sky, a Hopi, claimed that the fabled ‘Blue Star’ does not exist in Hopi legends, teachings or mythology. It was a term that he invented in the early 1970s that has since been pirated by researchers who falsely claimed to have spent time with Hopi Elders learning the secrets of the Blue Star Kachina (a kachina that Morning Sky says doesn't exist), and channelers, psychics and clairvoyants who claim to have received Blue Star revelations from their spiritual sources.” Yet a number of people still push the Blue Star Prophecies as authentic.[7]
   Among them is Miriam Delicado, who also is a major figure in UFO circles. In addition to relying on the false Blue Star Prophecy, she also claims to speak on behalf of Martin Gashweseoma. Gashwesoma is not an authority among the Hopi and was specifically condemned by actual Hopi priests. Delicado was specifically asked by the Hopi tribal council to stop her misrepresentation of both Gashwesoma’s status and Hopi prophecy. She refuses.[8]

There is a single genuine example of Hopi prophecy which Hopi elders wished to share with the world, and chose to do so using their own spokesmen. Thomas Banyacya was a Hopi conscientious objector in World War II. He refused to serve in the US Army and was imprisoned along with Amish, Mennonites, Quakers, and other religious pacifists. When the US dropped atomic bombs on Japan, Hopi elders saw in this the fulfillment of Hopi prophecy about a “gourd of ashes” that would spread poison from the air, with the potential to destroy the world. Hopi prophecies also spoke of a “building of mica on the eastern shore.” Hopi elders believed this prophecy foretold the then-new United Nations building. Banyacya was appointed their tribal spokesman and sent to warn the outside world of the dangers of nuclear weapons and work for peace. Lobbying tirelessly and speaking for nearly forty years against war, materialism, and environmental destruction, in 1992 Banyacya finally spoke at the United Nations Assembly. Speaking in the traditional way, without notes and spontaneously, Banyacya described the prophecy and called for world peace, also carrying out a Hopi blessing with corn pollen in the General Assembly. His mission accomplished, the Hopi Nation maintains the only prophecy to be shared with the world was a success in averting disaster for mankind. Hopi Nation spokesmen strongly deny there are any further prophecies to be shared with outsiders.[9]
Footnotes
“Visitor Guidelines,” http://web.archive.org/web/2003022115074...itors.html, accessed 8-18-10
Issues- Press Releases from Hotevilla Priesthood Assembly,” http://web.archive.org/web/2003022114541...ssues.html, accessed 8-18-10
Hopi Nation, Cultural Theft and Misrepresentation,” http://web.archive.org/web/2004040407095...isrep.html, accessed 8-18-10
“The Late Craig Carpenter,” http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=288.0, accessed 8-18-10
“Limping Snow Wolf,” http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1362.0, accessed 8-18-10
“Hopis Mum on Prophecies,” http://www.gallupindependent.com/1999-20...06-00.html
NHNE News Brief,” http://www.nhne.com/newsbriefs/nhnenb42.html, accessed 8-18-10
“Issues.” “The Dream Masters,” http://www.thedreammasters.org/hopi/mart...eseoma.php, accessed 8-18-10
Robert Thomas Jr., “Thomas Banyacya, Teller of Hopi Prophecy to World,” http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/15/us/tho...world.html, accessed 8-19-10. “Hopis Mum on Prophecies.”

As I said previously, I genuinely wish you all the very best.

Leaving with a song from one of my favourite bands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxTVzi9Nrj4

Darkness Of Greed
- Rage Against the Machine

Greed!
Causing innocent blood to flow
Entire culture, lost in the overthrow
They came to seize and take whatever they please
Then all they gave back was death and disease
My people were left with no choice but to decide
To conform to a system, responsible for genocide
Responsible for genocide
Responsible for genocide...

(Spoken)
'AIDS is killing the entire African nation
And a vaccine is still supposedly under preparation
But these governments, they don't mind the procrastination
They say "We'll kill them off, take their land, and go there for vacation."

My people's culture was strong, it was pure
And if not for that white greed
It would've endured
My people were left with no choice but to decide
To conform to a system
Their souls encaged
Their minds enslaved
I feel the rage
Its brutality can never be undone
But the sun is not yet set
The bass and drums and microphones a threat
That's when ya investigate the crimes from the inside
And see that they're responsible for genocide
Responsible for genocide
Responsible for genocide...

You jam your culture down my throat
Say I'm inferior when I find that I choke
Ya fill my mind with a false sense of history
And then you wonder why I have no identity?
Well I'll strike a match and it'll catch and
Spread the insight we need
A tiny fire, burning bright
Shedding light on the darkness of greed
A yes yes y'all, and ya don't stop
Shedding light on the darkness of greed
A yes yes y'all, and ya don't stop
Shedding light on the darkness of greed

[Dekalb_Blues]

 

... Lucky I didn't post anything about Little Grandmother Kiesha!

 

I (of Euro-Scandinavian ancestry) was inducted as an Ordeal-Tested Arrow Brother (wow!) into the
Lenni Lenape/Minsi-culture-based Witauchsoman Lodge of the Order of the Arrow in the Boy Scouts
of America forty-three years ago-- does this count? I suspect not so much.*  




Meanwhile, the prescient Nicholas Black Elk is certainly having the last (admittedly dark) laugh on "White Civilization".



"I could see that the white man did not care for each other the way our
people did....
They would take everything from each other if they could...
some had more of everything than they could use, while crowds of
people had nothing at all....
This could not be better than the old ways of my people."








* Old joke from early 1930s:
Lone Ranger: Well, Tonto, it looks like this is it -- the Injuns have us surrounded, and we're out of ammo!
Tonto: Hmmm... what you mean "us"-- paleface! 

[Aion]

I don't really know anything about the Hopi so I am ignorant at best. I have quite a few native friends here in Canada and having strong ties to my own roots while I have enjoyed my experiences in sweat lodge and with the philosophy I feel it is more of a natural kinship between the druid and the native philosophies. I am someone who even hates the terms 'black' and 'white'. I hate when people call me 'white' because I'm not, I'm a mix of ethnicities and there is no 'white' race, there are many ethnicities with light skin and many with dark skin. Yet, most would probably just call me a white guy.

I bring this up because the issue of appropriation isn't one dimensional and doesn't affect only one person. As a Celt, I wonder if I should offended by the myriads of 'cool' Celtic knot tattoos or as a Hebrew and Germanic the much abused Tree of Life which are rooted in my cultural heritage. I even know natives who have studied and made used of ideas in Kabbalah alongside their traditional practices, so should I be offended by that?

I am just stringing these questions to illustrate the complexity of the issue in my mind. The ownership of knowledge is easy to talk about but it's not as easy to control in reality. However, the ownership of identity is even harder.

I agree with the refutation of frauds and people out to make a quick buck. However, I don't believe that it is always necessarily out of greed or malice but sometimes people really believe in the paths they are following.

Actually I've been following a lot of business happening around Stone Henge where they are trying to impose fees for parking and other things for gatherings while the local pagans are up in arms over the 'pay to pray' they see it as. It has been interesting to see the words thrown around such as 'Heretic', used by the pagans actually towards those trying to impose the fees.

So basically I want to point out that this is a problem for many traditional cultures and I think we all have to work together to achieve an equitable level of respect and responsibilities. It seems indigenous ways are threatened everywhere whether they are light skinned or dark.

In some ways I consider Natives fortunate to have such direct lineal access to their culture (although much has been disrupted and destroyed there are chains of elder which have preserved many important concepts) in many cases and so they can fight more strongly for it. The natural teachings of European cultures has much less of a continuous line so it is easy to disregard any ownership. I wish I had an elder or two with knowledge of the cultural traditions but they have been so diluted and corrupted that even most people in Ireland don't even know it's part of their history.

[Kaaron]

Does the problem of "appropriation" stem from trying to assign the traits of love, to a set of beliefs and call it a culture?
*I mean...we seem to hold onto, what is essentially a way of being and get caught up in dogma, more than actually LIVING the principles found within it.
Is culture an attempt to use symbols and metaphors as stepping stones to truth?
If so, how do you protect that?
Spreading the knowledge.

I'm afraid the powers that be are just experiencing the natural consequences of holding too much power, for too long.
It requires no "protecting"...only perspectives.

[Spooner]

IMO many of the ideas associated with social justice are deliberate STS concepts intended to humiliate, shame, guilt and otherwise demoralize people for slight or even imaginary offenses. Culture is always in a mode of evolution, fusion, and diversification. It always has been and always will be. You are in no way responsible for the mis-steps of those who came before you any more than you are responsible for their great successes. Indian cultures have appropriated Western Culture and vise versa. Without appropriating Western culture Indian cultures would not exist to nearly the extent they do today. Likewise Western Culture is undergoing a decay and sickness. It reaches out for the tribal wisdom of other cultures to attempt to find footing. This is all permissible under the concept of free will. To judge an entire class as racist because they seek to mimic (and just like children mimic to understand and explore) is not productive to reconciliation and healing.

Disrespecting another culture does not seem productive in the STO path. Neither is judging mimicry as racist. However, if you are extremely attached to the distortion known as culture and believe it belongs exclusively to a racial-genetic grouping then I think it would be natural to continue in your path. Discover, celebrate, respect and preserve your own cultural heritage. However, seeking to control through shame, what another group is doing seems very unproductive.

[rva_jeremy]

Since it's never appropriation when a less powerful person/culture appropriates a more powerful person/culture, it seems clear to me that claims of appropriation are secondary to the real problem of unequal power and more garden-variety oppression. In fact, I think making appropriation such a big deal, let alone a crime, is in some ways tools the system uses to keep first-order oppressions in place by throwing a bone on these second-order oppressions that would have no substance without things like systemic discrimination, violence, etc. I wrote an essay on this theory a few years ago.

[Spooner]

Since it's never appropriation when a less powerful person/culture appropriates a more powerful person/culture, it seems clear to me that claims of appropriation are secondary to the real problem of unequal power and more garden-variety oppression.  In fact, I think making appropriation such a big deal, let alone a crime, is in some ways tools the system uses to keep first-order oppressions in place by throwing a bone on these second-order oppressions that would have no substance without things like systemic discrimination, violence, etc.  I wrote an essay on this theory a few years ago.

Any arrangement enforced by law (violence) is a form of enslavement. Therefore it does not matter which culture is powerful. To make appropriation illegal is simply another form of enslavement by the ruling over another segment of the ruled. To blame the ruled segment as deserving this enslavement because of their race/heritage is simply racism. No amount of semantics can disguise this fact. Seeing the matter in terms of oppressed/oppressor is to propagate the dynamic because it focuses on seizing the reigns of power. In this sense the entire concept of appropriation is just an attempt to use soft power to convince society to turn over it's power to another group. The struggle for power and domination is an STS dynamic and should be dropped completely. This should be no surprise since social justice, appropriation, privilege theory etc comes out of social marxism which is a dualistic dogma used to dominate rather than liberate. All law is violence. Therefore any solution through law is a propagation of violence.

[outerheaven]

bye splash

[isis]

dif-tor heh smusma

[smc]

https://livestream.com/unicornriot/events/6668525

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Monday, November 20, 2016 3:00pm
Prepared by Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council at the Standing Rock Dakota Access Pipeline Resistance Camps

The Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council responded to a mass casualty incident that began at 6pm yesterday evening. Approximately 300 injuries were identified, triaged, assessed and treated by our physicians, nurses, paramedics and integrative healers working in collaboration with local emergency response. These 300 injuries were the direct result of excessive force by police over the course of 10 hours. At least 26 seriously injured people had to be evacuated by ambulance to 3 area hospitals.

Police continuously assaulted demonstrators with up to three water cannons for the first 7 hours of this incident in subfreezing temperatures dipping to 22F © causing hypothermia in the majority of patients treated. Chemical weapons in the form of pepper spray and tear gas were also used extensively, requiring chemical decontamination for nearly all patients treated and severe reactions in many. Projectiles in the form of tear gas canisters, rubber bullets, and concussion grenades led to numerous blunt force traumas including head wounds, lacerations, serious orthopedic injuries, eye trauma, and internal bleeding.

Every emergency medical unit from the Standing Rock Sioux reservation responded to the incident and additional ambulances were sent from Cheyenne River Sioux tribe (South Dakota), Kidder County, and Morton County. 3 seriously injured patients were transported directly by ambulance from the scene and another 23 patients were transported by ambulance after initial assessment and treatment in camp. Injuries from the mass casualty incident include:

• An elder who lost consciousness and was revived on scene
• A young man with a grand mal seizure
• A woman shot in the face by a rubber bullet with subsequent eye injury and compromised vision
• A young man with internal bleeding who was vomiting blood after a rubber bullet injury to his abdomen
• A man shot in the back near his spine by a rubber bullet causing blunt force trauma and a severe head laceration
• Multiple fractures secondary to projectiles fired by police

The Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council condemns the excessive police violence and calls upon law enforcement to cease and desist these nearly lethal actions. Specifically, we demand the cessation of water cannons in subfreezing temperatures.

Our volunteers performed well under challenging circumstances last night, but we would not have been able to do this without the help of water protectors and local community members who transported patients to our clinic, organized warming spaces, and provided food and tea. We specifically want to thank the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe EMS services for their excellent response and highest quality care in an unprecedented situation. “They were phenomenal. They recognized the severity of what we were dealing with, it could have been a lot worse” said Jazmine, a volunteer physician from the Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council.

Donations for the medical and public health response can be made to the Standing Rock Medic & Healer council at www.medichealercouncil.com/donate.

Water is Life, Mni Wiconi

Signed,

Linda Black Elk, PhD, Ethnobotanist, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
Michael Knudsen, MPH candidate, Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council
Noah Morris, EMT
Amelia Massucco, RN
John Andrews, RN
Kristina Golden, EMT, herbalist
Sebastian Rodriguez, RN
Rosemary Fister, RN, MNPHN, DNP Candidate
Rupa Marya, MD, DoNoHarm Coalition, University of California – San Francisco
David Kingfisher, MD, JD, Wichita State University
Jesse Lopez, MD, Heartland Surgical Care
Kalama O Ka Aina Niheu, MD, Aha Aloha Aina
Howard Ehrman, MD, MPH, University of Illinois - Chicago
Geeta Maker-Clark, MD, University of Chicago
Elizabeth Friedman, MD
Vanessa Bolin, ALS Paramedic

Contact: Michael Knudsen, Medic Coordinator and Standing Rock Sioux Tribe ethno-botanist Linda Black Elk, PhD – medichealercouncil@gmail.com

[smc]

https://medichealercouncil.com/donate/

Donate

Thank you for all the amazing support you have shown the Medic & Healer Council!

*** We also need a transport vehicle and snow-ready ATVs URGENTLY – if you have a reliable vehicle you are willing to donate to the cause, please contact us! ***

At this time, we are blessed with lots of donated supplies. There are three main ways you can support the council:

1) Purchase remaining Medic supply needs. See the full list of needs and purchase via our Amazon Wish List https://amzn.com/w/284OV04OWXQG9.
You can also reference that list, purchase items locally, and then mark the items as purchased via the Amazon list.

We are also in need of

   Unflavored Milk of Magnesia
   Wool blankets
   Emergency blankets
   Wool socks
   Wool thermal underwear – NO COTTON
   Hand warmers
   Safety Goggles https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01A12J3G...ref=plSrch
   Trauma kits (portable) http://m.galls.com/elite-first-aid-tacti...auma%20kit
   Straw bales
   Firewood
   Two 4WD trucks for medic vehicles
   One of these for medic evac vehicles: http://argoatv.com/products/frontier-8×8-responder-s

Donated items can be mailed to Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council, PO Box 1251, Bismarck, ND, 58502 – or if you are shipping via UPS or FedEx, please use the address 220 E Rosser Ave #1251, Bismarck ND 58502.

2) Donate funds to allow us to finalize our winter infrastructure needs, for advanced practitioner gear, for climate-controlled storage of medic supplies, and for emergency contingency supply funds
Make a tax deductible donation directly to the Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council
Your donation is tax deductible and processed through our fiscal sponsor, the Florida School of Holistic Living (501c3)

3) Send Herbal remedies.
*** Thanks to everyone who has offered herbal remedies. Our current needs are posted below –

Please, Clearly LABEL everything with ALL ingredients! NO ALCOHOL please!

DRIED HERBS OR GLYCERITES
Cinnamon chips
Wild cherry bark
Wood betony (stachys)
Wild yam
Gravel root/ Joe Pye
Blue vervain
Agrimony
Turkey tail
Black Birch
Shatavari
Elder flower
Elder berry
Linden flower
Licorice
Lemon verbena
Skullcap
Eyebright

Anemone glycerite fresh
Ghost pipe glycerite fresh
Pedicularis glycerite fresh
Skullcap glycerite fresh
Corydalis glycerite fresh

Milky oats ACV (if you made it with fresh oats in the milky stage)

Honey
Neem Oil
1 oz, 2oz plastic dispensing bottles
Organic glycerine
French presses
Wide mouth quart canning jars
2 oz cough syrups to hand out (no alcohol)
Cough drops

Please NONE of the following as we have plenty! Thank you!!
No mullein
No calendula
No hops
No Ladies mantle
No boneset
no Yarrow
No Peppermint
No Slippery Elm
No Chaga

Donated items can be mailed to Standing Rock Medic & Healer Council, PO Box 1251, Bismarck, ND, 58502 – or if you are shipping via UPS or FedEx, please use the address 220 E Rosser Ave #1251, Bismarck ND 58502.

[rva_jeremy]

All law is violence. Therefore any solution through law is a propagation of violence.

Amen!

[smc]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016...sky-injury

Wayne Wilansky, who was not in North Dakota at the time of his daughter’s injury, spoke to the Guardian from the hospital and conveyed his daughter’s account. He maintains that the police account was “completely fictitious” and “bogus nonsense”.

“She wasn’t near the truck at the time it happened and was backing away while being shot with rubber bullets,” he said. “While backing away and trying not to be hit with the bullets the grenade was thrown directly at her and it exploded on her arm.”

A witness, Stephen Joachinson, told the Guardian that he was talking with Sophia Wilansky near the burned vehicle when police started yelling at them on a bullhorn.

“They threatened that they were going to shoot us with less-than-lethal force and within 20 seconds of that warning they just started firing on us,” he said.

The pair began running away, he said, when a concussion grenade exploded behind them. Seconds later, a second concussion grenade struck her arm.

“When she got hit with the rubber bullet she was hurt and she was scared and she ran back, and that’s when they hit her with the concussion grenade and it blew up right on her arm,” Joachinson said.

A spokeswoman for the Morton County sheriff’s department told the Los Angeles Times that officers did not deploy any concussion grenades on Sunday. Officials have said that they deployed teargas, bean-bag rounds, sponge rounds and a water cannon.

Law enforcement officials did not respond to queries from the Guardian seeking a list of all the types of “less-than-lethal” weapons used on Sunday, a list of all the law enforcement agencies present and further details on its statements about the incident.

“The injuries are inconsistent with any resources utilized by law enforcement and are not a direct result of any tools or weapons used by law enforcement,” Iverson said in a statement.

Wayne Wilansky called law enforcement’s denial of using concussion grenades “nonsensical”.

“The doctor pulled shrapnel out of her arm,” he said, adding that surgeons had informed him that the injury was “entirely consistent” with a grenade explosion.

The Standing Rock Healer and Medical Council, a group of medical professionals at the encampments, also rejected the claim that the injury was caused by a propane explosion, citing witness accounts, the “lack of charring of flesh at the wound site” and “grenade pieces that have been removed from her arm in surgery”.

The explosion is under investigation by the North Dakota bureau of criminal investigation with support from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Wilansky said that FBI officers had visited the hospital and collected his daughter’s clothing on Tuesday. A spokesman for the FBI refused to confirm or deny that the agency was involved in the investigation.

Sophia Wilansky is one of thousands of activists who have travelled to the banks of the Missouri river near the Standing Rock Sioux reservation in North Dakota to support the tribe’s efforts to halt the Dakota Access pipeline. Members of the tribe fear that the pipeline – which is slated to cross under the river – will contaminate their water supply and object to construction on land that includes sacred burial sites.

The movement has become a global rallying cry for indigenous rights and anti-climate change activism, but has faced fierce opposition from the pipeline company and local law enforcement. Morton County’s sheriff, Kyle Kirchmeier, said in a statement on Monday that the tribe had been “hijacked” by “violent factions” made up of “evil agitators”.

More than 500 people have been arrested during the months-long standoff, and law enforcement officials have deployed pepper spray, teargas, rubber bullets, Tasers, sound weapons and other “less-than-lethal” methods.

The Mandan police chief, Jason Ziegler, said in a press conference on Monday that law enforcement agencies “can use whatever force necessary to maintain peace”.

Warning: *graphic image* http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-cont...phia-2.jpg

https://www.gofundme.com/30aezxs

"Sophia was safely taken out of North Dakota for emergent surgery and is currently in stable condition. Below is her statement as conveyed by her father, lawyer Wayne Wilansky. “At around 4:30am after the police hit the bridge with water cannons and rubber bullets and pepper spray they lobbed a number of concussion grenades which are not supposed to be thrown at people directly at protesters or protectors as they want to be called. A grenade exploded right as it hit Sophia in the left forearm taking most of the undersurface of her left arm with it. Both her radial and ulnar artery were completely destroyed. Her radius was shattered and a large piece of it is missing. Her medial nerve is missing a large section as well. All of the muscle and soft tissue between her elbow and wrist were blown away. The police did not do this by accident - it was an intentional act of throwing it directly at her. Additionally police were shooting people in face and groin intending to do the most possible damage. Sophia will have surgery again tomorrow as bit by bit they try to rebuild a somewhat functioning arm and hand. The first surgery took a vein from her leg which they have implanted in her arm to take the place of the missing arteries. She will need multiple surgeries to try to gain some functional use of the arm and hand. She will be, every day for the foreseeable future, fearful of losing her arm and hand. There are no words to describe the pain of watching my daughter cry and say she was sorry for the pain she caused me and my wife. I died a thousand deaths today and will continue to do so for quite some time. I am left without the right words to describe the anguish of watching her look at her now alien arm and hand.”
via Bleu Adams

[Plenum]

a separate discussion was split off here:

Urgent Message From Archangel Michael ~ It is Time… Soul Mission Activation

[smc]

"In case you may not have known: people are likely to start dying at Standing Rock-- if they aren't already:

The Standing Rock Medic and Healer Council released this statement: “The physicians and tribal healers with the Standing Rock Medic and Healer Council call for the immediate cessation of use of water cannons on people who are outdoors in 28F ambient weather with no means of active rewarming in these conditions. As medical professionals, we are concerned for the real risk of loss of life due to severe hypothermia under these conditions.”
Not to mention continuous mass tear gas, rubber bullets, as well as stinger grenades and LRAND (Long Range Acoustic Device) for 3 hours

Law enforcement also shot down three media drones and targeted journalists with less lethal rounds.

National Lawyers Guild legal observers on the frontlines have confirmed that multiple people were unconscious and bleeding after being shot in the head with rubber bullets. One elder went into cardiac arrest at the frontlines but medics administered CPR and were able to resuscitate him. The camp’s medical staff and facilities are overwhelmed and the local community of Cannonball has opened their school gymnasium for emergency relief.

IF YOU CAN - PLEASE CALL THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES NOW:

ND Office of the Governor: 701-328-2200.
Morton County Sheriff's Department:
701-328-8118 & 701-667-3330.
ND National Guard: 701-333-2000
202 224.2043 call the senator of North Dakota
202-456-1111

Call often, please.

Please copy and paste. Then pass it on. Thank you."

[isis]

there's always multiple sides to a story.
for the fun of it, i'd like to share some of the other side. this doesn't mean i think this side is right & that i'm on this side.

http://www.insidesources.com/what-the-da...lling-you/

https://www.facebook.com/notes/scott-gat...cation=ufi

I live out here.
The natives were given multiple opportunities to appeal the pipeline during the planning stages. All the other local farmers and ranchers, and even other tribes attended meetings to discuss routing of the pipeline .
The elders from the standing rock reservation skipped every single meeting.
So the pipeline was started (fully permitted and approved btw)
now the pipeline has been under construction for quite a long time, and the natives just started protesting this fall when it started getting close to the Rez.
It doesn't cross the reservation, it doesn't cross any of their property, they have zero legal backing to stop construction.
They are trespassing and violent
Many of those being arrested aren't even from our state, they are shipped in paid protestors just like we've seen at the anti-trump rallies
the police have blocked access to a single bridge, because the protestors set a bunch of vehicles on fire on the bridge and compromised the structural integrity. The entire thing needs repairs before it can have traffic on it again.
The protestors have repeatedly tried to push past these barriers to cross the police line and get closer to the pipeline that has every legal right to be constructed . The police have stood their ground, and been met with violence from these criminals.
the natives are throwing rocks, and throwing burning logs and branches at cops. Molotov cocktails have been thrown at empty vehicles, fires have been started, tires have been slashed, they are dangerous and not in any way being peaceful.

Pretty much all local news is against the protestors, and all national news is for them .... It's almost like the national news people aren't here dealing with these criminals like we are

The natives initially wanted the pipeline over their land, but they demanded too much money so the company moved it. Now they're claiming they own this land too, because of a voided treaty over 150 years ago

It's not even on tribal land, and is being placed within feet of an already existing line. It runs solely across private land, the tribe turned down negotiations to have it run across their land and be paid so the Corps of engineers ran it around tribal land and cut them completely out of the loop
...
I have been keeping up with this fairly regular being Native American myself it caught my attention early on but the more i read the more it seems like they are just angry they lost out on money when they companies decided it would be easier to just go around them than to have them keep dragging their feet, drawing the whole process out.

The tribe was asked to participate in negations like 5 times, the govt said OK if u won't work with us we will just build it. They said OK and now that are throwing a b**** fit

It's already 98% completed. Only a few more weeks of work. (Know people who are working on it.)

As a North Dakotan, all I can say is that everyone is fed up with it here. The actual ND natives are being peaceful but are protesting something illogical. It's a lot safer to have a pipe than semis hauling it. The people that are causing the problems are the media, hippies, and paid protestors. You will see the media and paid protestors being flown in over and over. Next thing you know, they are dressed down like a protestor causing problems for their cameras to record.

The whole protest is a fraud. These are the same "protestors" that show up "anywhere" a "capitalist invest in America" They were at the occupy protest, the BLM protest, and now they get a few Indians to come along and claim "water worry", and some mystical, superstitious bull s*** about it being scared land. All a front for the Soros funded World Communist movement (Green Party). Simple fact, the court has ruled, finish the pipeline, and send the Indians home to their Casino checks, and send the professional protestors to jail.

[Diana]

I live out here.
The natives were given multiple opportunities to appeal the pipeline during the planning stages. All the other local farmers and ranchers, and even other tribes attended meetings to discuss routing of the pipeline .
The elders from the standing rock reservation skipped every single meeting.
So the pipeline was started (fully permitted and approved btw)
now the pipeline has been under construction for quite a long time, and the natives just started protesting this fall when it started getting close to the Rez.

Reminds me of this passage in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when the Vogons announced from their ship to the humans that Earth was about to be obliterated to make way for an interstellar highway:

"There's no point in acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it now."

LOL  

[isis]

The court record reveals that the Standing Rock Sioux refused to meet with corps officials to discuss the route until after site work had begun. That work is now 77 percent completed at a cost of $3 billion.

In response to a lawsuit filed by the Standing Rock Sioux, the court documented “dozens of attempts” by the corps to consult with the tribe. It documented the legal and proper approval process the corps used to permit all of the contested construction sites the tribe claimed were improperly permitted. It even documented evidence that the corps had exceeded the minimum legal requirements during its earnest and lengthy efforts to receive the input of tribal leaders on the pipeline.

http://www.insidesources.com/what-the-da...lling-you/

[Billy]

Whatever the facts may be, this protest, with all the coverage it has been getting, I think will cause people to stop and think about our relationship with the Earth and how we wish to approach it. I think that is a good thing and matters. Do we wish to live in harmony with the planet or to see it as merely something to be used for our own benefit and gain? Our planet is sacred, and if more people had that sort of mindset, how much better the world would be. These kinds of technologies and sources of energy, I don't feel will have a place as humanity continues to evolve. I can't imagine a more enlightened human society using fossil fuels as an energy source.

There are legitimate health concerns related to this pipeline, and I don't think there is any way around that. Wanting clean drinking water is a basic human right and should be extended to all peoples. Regardless, those protesting this pipeline have shown their resolve and it seems to me won't be going away until the pipeline is rerouted. Surely that will end up being the case unless something unthinkable happens.