"You create your reality"

[Aion]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

They might even be just vaguely looking for any victim and so those who already have some sense of victimhood may light up to them, like a predator who smells blood. Amazing how easy we forgive the predator while expecting the victim to rise above.

There is a large part of the Ra Material where Ra discusses 'free will infringement' and indeed it is a crux of the point of the difference between polarities. I have noticed that some in their striving for unity have discarded this notion, instead justifying everything according to free will and it's freedom only. I disagree with this. I believe infringement is not only possible but is also common and that this whole 'you vibrationally called it to you' is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo created by manipulative individuals in order to induce docility towards trauma.

Note, it's not that I don't believe in manifestation, I just think that is different from the fabric of one's life.

[anagogy]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

Right, I hear you and agree. That's why earlier in the thread I said:

Also, keep in mind there is still a rapist in both circumstances who is deliberately attracting someone to rape. While it does take two to tango, so to speak, the fact that one creates their own reality doesn't take away from the negative intent of the rapist. They just happened to be a vibrational match to one another: victim and victimizer. So naturally they end up in the same reality.

[octavia]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

They might even be just vaguely looking for any victim and so those who already have some sense of victimhood may light up to them, like a predator who smells blood. Amazing how easy we forgive the predator while expecting the victim to rise above.

You raise some striking and salient points! Not everything said here resonated with me however I would like to build upon what did, if that is acceptable.

I emphatically agree that regardless of the theoretical vibrational status of the victim, the one who has been infringed upon, the infringement of free will categorically requires an infringing party. And I think that Anagogy is well aware of this as well. However, I believe we can even go a step further and perhaps propose that no such vibrational status of the victim exists, or if it does, it actually exists posterior to the act of infringement itself, and not as a vibrational match with the entity who seeks to infringe. That vibrational status posterior to the event may be instead understood as trauma.

In this specific sense then, I personally believe that it is far more coherent to psychologically explore the infringing party than it is to psychologically explore the party that has been infringed upon, at least in the context of the concept of he who manifests his own reality. For in my limited understanding, excessive and conscious control is the way of the negative path. In turn, I feel that it is also more coherent to politely request of all entities that they respect the free will of others than it is to suggest that it is only through disharmony/unalignment with one's self that they come to be infringed upon.

In the development of this point, let us consider a quote from Q'uo concerning the anger of other selves:

[1996.10.06]Carla: I would like to follow up on that. I’ve watched a couple of relationships which were like this. One person refused to communicate and was simply abusive. This can’t help but hurt. Is there any way to defend oneself against being personally hurt by such abuse? Even words really do hurt.

Q'uo: I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. The most effective means by which we have found that one may deal with such a situation is to work internally upon the self for the building of the confidence that one has not truly generated such feeling but that the entity experiencing the anger has the responsibility of generating that anger, for as those known to this group as Ra have mentioned, there is truly no emotionally charged situation. There are only emotionally charged responses, and each entity will respond to each situation in the way that the entity has biased itself in consciousness previously to this incarnation.

Thus, the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes. The one feeling the anger has the responsibility of dealing with the emotions that come up as a result of experiencing the anger. Thus, if it can be kept in mind and in perspective as to who is responsible for what, it is most helpful, for if the entity that is around another expressing anger takes that anger into the self and feels one way or another, the feelings are this entity’s with which to deal.

I would like to hone in on Q'uo's statement that "..the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes." From this example then, if another entity comes to me in anger, and infringes upon my free will, it may be of far greater magical use to me to recall that this entity's anger, as well as the consequences of how they have chosen to express that anger, is their very own honor/responsibility to process and deal with. This would then in turn empower me to not in any way blame myself for having been infringed upon.

[Aion]

@Anagogy

I do see how you can draw that conclusion but that is not a complete view of the mechanics of vibration according to my understanding. You see, someone who is putting off a stronger vibration of higher amplitude can override a vibration of someone else and even entrain someone else to their vibration. The flaw I see in your suggestions that the victim will always have some desire to be victimized is in the thought that Ra gives - 'Are you not all things?'

This means that in microcosm you actually contain any and all possible desires, good and bad. This is where the problem of infringement comes in. Remember Ra describes negativity as being like a black hole, pulling things in to it. This is the entrainment effect as well. When a negative individual is putting out a powerful vibration they can actually call to desires within an individual and draw them in, hypnotically in a manner.

At this point, however, I don't think that it is always at the 'subconscious willingness of the victim' that this occurs.I believe a powerful vibration can call out desires that were never previously charged and manipulation can be used. In that sense, I think there are more cases of genuine infringement against will than cases of 'happenstance vibrational match'.

Predators will create prey if they find none naturally around them.

[Aion]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

They might even be just vaguely looking for any victim and so those who already have some sense of victimhood may light up to them, like a predator who smells blood. Amazing how easy we forgive the predator while expecting the victim to rise above.

You raise some striking and salient points! Not everything said here resonated with me however I would like to build upon what did, if that is acceptable.

I emphatically agree that regardless of the theoretical vibrational status of the victim, the one who has been infringed upon, the infringement of free will categorically requires an infringing party. And I think that Anagogy is well aware of this as well. However, I believe we can even go a step further and perhaps propose that no such vibrational status of the victim exists, or if it does, it actually exists posterior to the act of infringement itself, and not as a vibrational match with the entity who seeks to infringe. That vibrational status posterior to the event may be instead understood as trauma.

In this specific sense then, I personally believe that it is far more coherent to psychologically explore the infringing party than it is to psychologically explore the party that has been infringed upon, at least in the context of the concept of he who manifests his own reality. For in my limited understanding, excessive and conscious control is the way of the negative path. In turn, I feel that it is also more coherent to politely request of all entities that they respect the free will of others than it is to suggest that it is only through disharmony/unalignment with one's self that they come to be infringed upon.

In the development of this point, let us consider a quote from Q'uo concerning the anger of other selves:

[1996.10.06]Carla: I would like to follow up on that. I’ve watched a couple of relationships which were like this. One person refused to communicate and was simply abusive. This can’t help but hurt. Is there any way to defend oneself against being personally hurt by such abuse? Even words really do hurt.

Q'uo: I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. The most effective means by which we have found that one may deal with such a situation is to work internally upon the self for the building of the confidence that one has not truly generated such feeling but that the entity experiencing the anger has the responsibility of generating that anger, for as those known to this group as Ra have mentioned, there is truly no emotionally charged situation. There are only emotionally charged responses, and each entity will respond to each situation in the way that the entity has biased itself in consciousness previously to this incarnation.

Thus, the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes. The one feeling the anger has the responsibility of dealing with the emotions that come up as a result of experiencing the anger. Thus, if it can be kept in mind and in perspective as to who is responsible for what, it is most helpful, for if the entity that is around another expressing anger takes that anger into the self and feels one way or another, the feelings are this entity’s with which to deal.

I would like to hone in on Q'uo's statement that "..the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes." From this example then, if another entity comes to me in anger, and infringes upon my free will, it may be of far greater magical use to me to recall that this entity's anger, as well as the consequences of how they have chosen to express that anger, is their very own honor/responsibility to process and deal with. This would then in turn empower me to not in any way blame myself for having been infringed upon.

You might say these are some of the steps to the freedom of forgiveness of oneself.

[Minyatur]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

It still would be contained from within your free will. There's a step of light here, that all of your fate (across every density) was your own will and that every interaction you had with others were an answer to a need within yourself and also within themselves. This is not an easy lesson but it remains a fated one because that is how things ever are.

You are co-creator because you have the free will to perceive the truthful mirror of yourself through many-ness, this includes the desire to see yourself through both yourself and others as individualizations and how they inter-connect in their unified dance. I think if one's desires would be stronger than these more fundamental desires at the core of each of us, then you would be able to reject any aspect/facet/portion of your reality. This is a bit like how some can believe what they desire most would be to be alone, I can assure you they have a stronger and more fundamental desire to not be alone and went to great lenghts to get where they are at in their experience of not being alone. Regretting this and believing you want otherwise is just a portion of what it means to not be alone.

I think the more you go to the core of yourself and the more you go toward your fundamental nature which not only allows everything that has happened to you to have happened but also willed it. If you go beyond that, free will is an illusion and you never could have not been that which you are nor could you have not sought to know yourself.

They might even be just vaguely looking for any victim and so those who already have some sense of victimhood may light up to them, like a predator who smells blood. Amazing how easy we forgive the predator while expecting the victim to rise above.

Well that simply depends on which party you are dealing with. If you deal with the predator, you guide the person toward healing in what it specifically requires and if you deal with the victim you also guide the person toward healing in what it specifically requires, both are in need of that. In my own personal opinion, I believe the predator to be much more distorted/broken/hurt and requiring a greater deal of work to find healing. As such, the victim would have an easier time rising above and less steps to take toward healing.

I think people like to sympathize with victims so long they don't go past their tolerance point and end up broken and perceived as something both ugly and evil. Then they move from being something to defend to instead be something to fight against.

There is a large part of the Ra Material where Ra discusses 'free will infringement' and indeed it is a crux of the point of the difference between polarities. I have noticed that some in their striving for unity have discarded this notion, instead justifying everything according to free will and it's freedom only. I disagree with this. I believe infringement is not only possible but is also common and that this whole 'you vibrationally called it to you' is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo created by manipulative individuals in order to induce docility towards trauma.

Free will infringement relates to an aspect of the game, it works with polarity so long you have a limited awareness of the game which makes you feel through polarity. Look right or look left, there is but love/light light/love to see in beings of love/light light/love.

I think to say that you vibrationally called it to you is an attempt to shed light upon the Creator within and alignment with the core of yourself, because any person is the One Infinite Creator.

Note, it's not that I don't believe in manifestation, I just think that is different from the fabric of one's life.

We can call it attraction, spiritual gravity or resonance, here I think it is a matter of whether you want to guide the person toward feeling that everything is well or reinforce their feeling that everything is not well.

If we talk about that this might very well be an unrealistic thing to share with most people, I would agree but this is a forum which seeks to explore these things. I don't believe I can make any person understand it is every being/emotion/event and that all of it is their will, self and object of their purest love, but I think there are individuals of this forum who can awaken to this truth they already contain within but have temporary lost sight of.

[Aion]

Quote

I think that is a very extravagant way to justify suffering and I have no need for such mental gymnastics because I can simply accept that suffering is suffering. I have no need to turn things in to that which that are not, nor to abstract them to the point of dissolution. I see the Void behind all things, I do not need to break them to do so.

You can distort things as much as you wish, but abuse is abuse and no amount of forgiveness or philosophy takes away the pain of trauma when it is being experienced. Remember healing is an exercise to achieve wholeness and wholeness broken means many parts and many sides. Perhaps you have achieved some transcendent state of unity or something and you are now whole and One.

To me it more looks like you are uncomfortable with the existence of the other self and need to reduce everything to yourself to be able to digest that.

As you say, it depends on what you are trying to see with each individual, but I think comparisons of 'less/more' and 'better/'worst' only muddy up the situation. I also disagree, however, that such an infringement is always a result of suffering on the part of the infringer. There is sadism, make no mistake about that and it is not so uncommon I believe.

Philosophically and in our hearts we can make all the justifications and forgiveness we want, but does it really seem sensible to enable through passivity? Personally, and it's just a distortion of mine, I think sadism has received more than enough forgiveness on this planet.

Also, before anybody goes all unityonenessforgivenesslovestuff on me, I love the heart and spirit of all, and I genuinely believe that there is divine, pure spark in all life. That doesn't mean I love everything everyone does. Actions are not a person, but to love a person you do not need to love their actions. I accept that these actions occur and I accept the individuals who have done them, but that doesn't mean I am inclined to twist the suffering in to some beautiful narrative of love. That would be insulting to the sufferers and does them no justice and instead would only service my own ego at my philosophical cleverness.

[anagogy]

@Anagogy

I do see how you can draw that conclusion but that is not a complete view of the mechanics of vibration according to my understanding. You see, someone who is putting off a stronger vibration of higher amplitude can override a vibration of someone else and even entrain someone else to their vibration. The flaw I see in your suggestions that the victim will always have some desire to be victimized is in the thought that Ra gives - 'Are you not all things?'

This means that in microcosm you actually contain any and all possible desires, good and bad. This is where the problem of infringement comes in. Remember Ra describes negativity as being like a black hole, pulling things in to it. This is the entrainment effect as well. When a negative individual is putting out a powerful vibration they can actually call to desires within an individual and draw them in, hypnotically in a manner.

At this point, however, I don't think that it is always at the 'subconscious willingness of the victim' that this occurs.I believe a powerful vibration can call out desires that were never previously charged and manipulation can be used. In that sense, I think there are more cases of genuine infringement against will than cases of 'happenstance vibrational match'.

Predators will create prey if they find none naturally around them.

There is most definitely such a thing as influencing another of course, and I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. However, influence can only occur when there is vibrational overlap between realities, meaning, there has to be some common factor to facilitate that communication. In the same way that you need to be in the same room to physically touch someone, you have to be in a similar, or overlapping, "mental space" to vibrationally touch or influence someone. That can take many forms.

Keep in mind the physical is just an extension of the nonphysical, and the only reason you share a physical space with someone is because you also share (at least, to some minute extent) mental space as well.

You are right, we are all things, but in the illusion we are only some things. You could say those things that we currently appear to be are simply the "active vibrations" within us at the moment. Those vibrations are kept active only by our attention to them (subconscious or otherwise).

So are there situations where an individual influences someone to focus on vibrational activations they don't want? Most definitely (look, I'll do it right now: don't think of a pink elephant!). It happens all the time. But the person's free will to choose their thoughts has not gone away. The infringement is convincing them they have no power to choose. It's like getting them to use their own power against themselves.

What you are calling a powerful vibration that hypnotically draws in others, I would simply call "charisma". In talking about influencing others, I think its important to think about the concept of will. If you don't firmly choose what you think/believe, you will often be swept up into others thoughts, beliefs, desires, and perspectives.

Essentially, no one takes away your ability to choose, unless they talk you into believing you have no choice.

[Minyatur]

I think that is a very extravagant way to justify suffering and I have no need for such mental gymnastics because I can simply accept that suffering is suffering. I have no need to turn things in to that which that are not, nor to abstract them to the point of dissolution. I see the Void behind all things, I do not need to break them to do so.

You can distort things as much as you wish, but abuse is abuse and no amount of forgiveness or philosophy takes away the pain of trauma when it is being experienced. Remember healing is an exercise to achieve wholeness and wholeness broken means many parts and many sides. Perhaps you have achieved some transcendent state of unity or something and you are now whole and One.

To me it more looks like you are uncomfortable with the existence of the other self and need to reduce everything to yourself to be able to digest that.

I fail to see which portion of my post resonated with that suffering is not suffering. That you will suffering does not negate it's existence.

I don't do mental gymnastics for myself, spiritual truths are of a wordless nature and I seek to offer keys that may allow others to find an inner peace I have found within myself. To see with eyes that see only love and light is freeing and most healthy and is a clear view of what is. And so far I think in both your case and the one of others, dismissal of my words always seemed to hint toward that you rather cling to your pain than find to feel better. I can respect that without wanting to reinforce it and also seek for myself to offer a differing perspective.

You stated that you do not love yourself in past threads, I can tell you that you are worth loving and you can call that dismissal of your suffering. But I know you are worth loving and I know you will come to see that yourself and I can repeat it again and again to you until that day comes and I may find joy in that.

There may be parts and many sides, but the transcending truth is that each part and each side is love and light and unity.

[Aion]

@Anagogy

I do see how you can draw that conclusion but that is not a complete view of the mechanics of vibration according to my understanding. You see, someone who is putting off a stronger vibration of higher amplitude can override a vibration of someone else and even entrain someone else to their vibration. The flaw I see in your suggestions that the victim will always have some desire to be victimized is in the thought that Ra gives - 'Are you not all things?'

This means that in microcosm you actually contain any and all possible desires, good and bad. This is where the problem of infringement comes in. Remember Ra describes negativity as being like a black hole, pulling things in to it. This is the entrainment effect as well. When a negative individual is putting out a powerful vibration they can actually call to desires within an individual and draw them in, hypnotically in a manner.

At this point, however, I don't think that it is always at the 'subconscious willingness of the victim' that this occurs.I believe a powerful vibration can call out desires that were never previously charged and manipulation can be used. In that sense, I think there are more cases of genuine infringement against will than cases of 'happenstance vibrational match'.

Predators will create prey if they find none naturally around them.

There is most definitely such a thing as influencing another of course, and I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. However, influence can only occur when there is vibrational overlap between realities, meaning, there has to be some common factor to facilitate that communication. In the same way that you need to be in the same room to physically touch someone, you have to be in a similar, or overlapping, "mental space" to vibrationally touch or influence someone. That can take many forms.

Keep in mind the physical is just an extension of the nonphysical, and the only reason you share a physical space with someone is because you also share (at least, to some minute extent) mental space as well.

You are right, we are all things, but in the illusion we are only some things. You could say those things that we currently appear to be are simply the "active vibrations" within us at the moment. Those vibrations are kept active only by our attention to them (subconscious or otherwise).

So are there situations where an individual influences someone to focus on vibrational activations they don't want? Most definitely (look, I'll do it right now: don't think of a pink elephant!). It happens all the time. But the person's free will to choose their thoughts has not gone away. The infringement is convincing them they have no power to choose. It's like getting them to use their own power against themselves.

What you are calling a powerful vibration that hypnotically draws in others, I would simply call "charisma". In talking about influencing others, I think its important to think about the concept of will. If you don't firmly choose what you think/believe, you will often be swept up into others thoughts, beliefs, desires, and perspectives.

Essentially, no one takes away your ability to choose, unless they talk you into believing you have no choice.

I could stop myself from thinking of the pink elephant because I have good control over my thoughts, but most people would immediately get the image. The thing is that charisma isn't just 'talking', it is energy transfer as well and there are ways to influence people without ever saying a word or without directly influencing their thoughts.

However. I will disagree that these things only occur due to 'vibrational overlap' because this can be induced by a strong vibration from only one side. An energy transfer can be forced.

My analogy is that of a guitar. It can play many notes and sounds at any point but only so many at one time. As you play it takes different forms based on how you are vibrating the strings. The way resonance works is that anything will pick it up. We are like the guitar. We always have everything, but the illusion as you call it is whatever we are currently playing on the guitar. However, if someone suddenly comes in blaring a different tune at a louder volume not only will it drown out your music but it will also cause your guitar to vibrate in ways that you were not causing it to and can even cause notes to emerge due to harmonics that never might have emerged on their own.

You may have all the choice in the world of how you are going to keep playing, for sure, but that's not just what will is about. Will isn't just a matter of what you are doing but also a matter of what you want to do. Even if that person has no control over your guitar, they aren't touching it, they have control over your music because they are forcing you to play against them. This is what I believe infringement is actually like. This wouldn't be a particularly severe infringement but would be nonetheless.

In a situation where it wasn't infringement it would be asking to jam or play with or to just listen first and wait til a break. Then their will to play is respected while also exercising ones own will. I think people often go to extreme examples to try and demonstrate polarity but I think it happens on a much subtler and simpler level more often than not.

[Aion]

I think that is a very extravagant way to justify suffering and I have no need for such mental gymnastics because I can simply accept that suffering is suffering. I have no need to turn things in to that which that are not, nor to abstract them to the point of dissolution. I see the Void behind all things, I do not need to break them to do so.

You can distort things as much as you wish, but abuse is abuse and no amount of forgiveness or philosophy takes away the pain of trauma when it is being experienced. Remember healing is an exercise to achieve wholeness and wholeness broken means many parts and many sides. Perhaps you have achieved some transcendent state of unity or something and you are now whole and One.

To me it more looks like you are uncomfortable with the existence of the other self and need to reduce everything to yourself to be able to digest that.

I fail to see which portion of my post resonated with that suffering is not suffering. That you will suffering does not negate it's existence.

I don't do mental gymnastics for myself, spiritual truths are of a wordless nature and I seek to offer keys that may allow others to find an inner peace I have found within myself. To see with eyes that see only love and light is freeing and most healthy and is a clear view of what is.  And so far I think in both your case and the one of others, dismissal of my words always seemed to hint toward that you rather cling to your pain than find to feel better. I can respect that without wanting to reinforce it and also seek for myself to offer a differing perspective.

You stated that you do not love yourself in past threads, I can tell you that you are worth loving and you can call that dismissal of your suffering. But I know you are worth loving and I know you will come to see that yourself and I can repeat it again and again to you until that day comes and I may find joy in that.

There may be parts and many sides, but the transcending truth is that each part and each side is love and light and unity.

Ah, but see, you again bring up 'better'. Not all pain is emotional and mental, physical pain is not so easy to simply drop but it's effects upon the spirit can be felt just as severely. I do not lament my suffering but rather I believe it is something which has shaped me due to the very fact that despite endless effort, it will not just 'go away with thoughts of love' and it is somewhat naive of you to think that I have not put effort towards 'just letting go'.

At this point I don't think I am even suffering from those emotional or mental issues, I'm just grumpy and cynical because of the hernia. After the surgery I'll probably be in a much more comfortable state and be more peaceable.

[anagogy]

I could stop myself from thinking of the pink elephant because I have good control over my thoughts, but most people would immediately get the image. The thing is that charisma isn't just 'talking', it is energy transfer as well and there are ways to influence people without ever saying a word or without directly influencing their thoughts.

Oh, I agree completely, the "vibrational dialog" that is going on with others includes much more than just words.

However. I will disagree that these things only occur due to 'vibrational overlap' because this can be induced by a strong vibration from only one side. An energy transfer can be forced.

My analogy is that of a guitar. It can play many notes and sounds at any point but only so many at one time. As you play it takes different forms based on how you are vibrating the strings. The way resonance works is that anything will pick it up. We are like the guitar. We always have everything, but the illusion as you call it is whatever we are currently playing on the guitar. However, if someone suddenly comes in blaring a different tune at a louder volume not only will it drown out your music but it will also cause your guitar to vibrate in ways that you were not causing it to and can even cause notes to emerge due to harmonics that never might have emerged on their own.

Yes, it would appear we have somewhat different perspectives on this. I don't believe the energy transfer can be forced (in a total absence of free will sense, however, the 3rd density personality can be easily tricked into various conditions).

The best analogy to relate my perspective would be like a radio station. You can only pick up sounds from the particular radio station you are on (that equals what you are in "resonance" with). Wherever you turn your attention is the station you have tuned to. If you are partially tuned into a station, you might pick up influence, meaning, you might tune in even more, which makes the influence even more clear. Or you might just turn your attention away altogether, and completely shut down its influence.

So infringement from my perspective is essentially holding anothers' attention on what YOU want, despite their desire to focus on what they want. Normally how that is done is through either shock, fear, or awe. These things tend to fixate the interest and attention strongly. So that would be analogous to flipping randomly through the radio stations and suddenly you hear something horrifying and you tune in even more because you are transfixed to know more. Kind of like a train wreck, its horrible, but you can't just ignore it, you have a deep psychological need to know all the grisly details.

P.S.

[Aion]

I think what you say is true for the mind but not for the body and emotions. However, I do believe it is possible to mentally force yourself upon someone. To 'hack' their radio station if you will, but that is an adept phenomenon. It is much easier with the body and emotions I believe and requires not such a high level of discipline. That is, it would be difficult to take over a radio station from afar but not as much so to bust in there manually.

[Minyatur]

Ah, but see, you again bring up 'better'. Not all pain is emotional and mental, physical pain is not so easy to simply drop but it's effects upon the spirit can be felt just as severely. I do not lament my suffering but rather I believe it is something which has shaped me due to the very fact that despite endless effort, it will not just 'go away with thoughts of love' and it is somewhat naive of you to think that I have not put effort towards 'just letting go'.

I don't think you have not put effort towards letting go, you simply have many things to let go of and sometimes healing is not something so much achievable within one lifetime if you are not balanced out of here and were broken apart too deeply. I get why my words can seem to speak of results but they hint about direction. It's not so much about you specifically but the Creator within us. In my own movement away from suffering, I cannot advocate the tools I have used to entertain my suffering with.

Everyone is unique and when I spoke of predator and victims, I said both do require healing and that the steps of this healing is specific to each. We all are distorted in unique ways and I merely try to remove the line between predator/victim because I believe this line often aims at not finding love for those who are the predators and which I find to see victims within. I have compassion for both.

At this point I don't think I am even suffering from those emotional or mental issues, I'm just grumpy and cynical because of the hernia. After the surgery I'll probably be in a much more comfortable state and be more peaceable.

Well that is well, I wish the best for you.

[Aion]

Ah, but see, you again bring up 'better'. Not all pain is emotional and mental, physical pain is not so easy to simply drop but it's effects upon the spirit can be felt just as severely. I do not lament my suffering but rather I believe it is something which has shaped me due to the very fact that despite endless effort, it will not just 'go away with thoughts of love' and it is somewhat naive of you to think that I have not put effort towards 'just letting go'.

I don't think you have not put effort towards letting go, you simply have many things to let go of and sometimes healing is not something so much achievable within one lifetime if you are not balanced out of here and were broken apart too deeply. I get why my words can seem to speak of results but they hint about direction. It's not so much about you specifically but the Creator within us. In my own movement away from suffering, I cannot advocate the tools I have used to entertain my suffering with.

Everyone is unique and when I spoke of predator and victims, I said both do require healing and that the steps of this healing is specific to each. We all are distorted in unique ways and I merely try to remove the line between predator/victim because I believe this line often aims at not finding love for those who are the predators and which I find to see victims within. I have compassion for both.

At this point I don't think I am even suffering from those emotional or mental issues, I'm just grumpy and cynical because of the hernia. After the surgery I'll probably be in a much more comfortable state and be more peaceable.

Well that is well, I wish the best for you.

I understand what you are expressing, it's just not where my focus is right now. I am well acquainted with the concepts but I am exploring the antithesis of unity right now because it is the reflection of my internal state. I cannot force myself in to unity, it is always there, I can only balance myself according to the extremes of my distortions. In that, I have become decidedly 'mortal'. I chose to 'descend' my perspective to that of a regular frightened human, to know the fears that plague my fellow folk.

Death has been close to me this year. This past weekend a friend of mine was struck by a train and passed on. At the beginning of the year my grandfather died of a heart attack. I am in a very mortal, vulnerable state right now and I am expressing and appreciating it for everything that it is, pain and all, instead of hiding in my ignorant divinity.

[AnthroHeart]

Someone once suggested to ask "why am I..." and put something you desire as if it's already happened.

I'd say "why am I an anthro?" The questioning is supposed to be a new way to manifest.

[Mahakali]

So, I've noticed that in the discussions on victims and other such situations the focus has often been upon that of the victim themselves and their position in the process of creation, however I would like to bring light that one's own desires are not the only ones in the universe and that we are co-creators so it is possible to become involved with others' desires as well. In the case of the rape victim, it has to be remembered that the rapist also puts out a powerful emotional vibration and is 'creating their reality' in the same way the victim supposedly is.

They might even be just vaguely looking for any victim and so those who already have some sense of victimhood may light up to them, like a predator who smells blood. Amazing how easy we forgive the predator while expecting the victim to rise above.

You raise some striking and salient points! Not everything said here resonated with me however I would like to build upon what did, if that is acceptable.

I emphatically agree that regardless of the theoretical vibrational status of the victim, the one who has been infringed upon, the infringement of free will categorically requires an infringing party. And I think that Anagogy is well aware of this as well. However, I believe we can even go a step further and perhaps propose that no such vibrational status of the victim exists, or if it does, it actually exists posterior to the act of infringement itself, and not as a vibrational match with the entity who seeks to infringe. That vibrational status posterior to the event may be instead understood as trauma.

In this specific sense then, I personally believe that it is far more coherent to psychologically explore the infringing party than it is to psychologically explore the party that has been infringed upon, at least in the context of the concept of he who manifests his own reality. For in my limited understanding, excessive and conscious control is the way of the negative path. In turn, I feel that it is also more coherent to politely request of all entities that they respect the free will of others than it is to suggest that it is only through disharmony/unalignment with one's self that they come to be infringed upon.

In the development of this point, let us consider a quote from Q'uo concerning the anger of other selves:

[1996.10.06]Carla: I would like to follow up on that. I’ve watched a couple of relationships which were like this. One person refused to communicate and was simply abusive. This can’t help but hurt. Is there any way to defend oneself against being personally hurt by such abuse? Even words really do hurt.

Q'uo: I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. The most effective means by which we have found that one may deal with such a situation is to work internally upon the self for the building of the confidence that one has not truly generated such feeling but that the entity experiencing the anger has the responsibility of generating that anger, for as those known to this group as Ra have mentioned, there is truly no emotionally charged situation. There are only emotionally charged responses, and each entity will respond to each situation in the way that the entity has biased itself in consciousness previously to this incarnation.

Thus, the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes. The one feeling the anger has the responsibility of dealing with the emotions that come up as a result of experiencing the anger. Thus, if it can be kept in mind and in perspective as to who is responsible for what, it is most helpful, for if the entity that is around another expressing anger takes that anger into the self and feels one way or another, the feelings are this entity’s with which to deal.

I would like to hone in on Q'uo's statement that "..the one experiencing the anger and expressing the anger has the responsibility of dealing with that anger and its causes." From this example then, if another entity comes to me in anger, and infringes upon my free will, it may be of far greater magical use to me to recall that this entity's anger, as well as the consequences of how they have chosen to express that anger, is their very own honor/responsibility to process and deal with. This would then in turn empower me to not in any way blame myself for having been infringed upon.

But seriously, though, all things are vibration at base level, so you can't not be a vibrational match for anything that happens to you.

If you were raped, you were vibrating at a place in space/time where the rape could occur, and you were vibrating at a level where you were unable to defend yourself, while vibrating in a universe where the concept of rape exists.

[octavia]

But seriously, though, all things are vibration at base level, so you can't not be a vibrational match for anything that happens to you.

If you were raped, you were vibrating at a place in space/time where the rape could occur, and you were vibrating at a level where you were unable to defend yourself, while vibrating in a universe where the concept of rape exists.

We agree that there are broad vibrational matches to the extent that the same may be said of any material phenomenon. However, the intent of our earlier statement "However, I believe we can even go a step further and perhaps propose that no such vibrational status of the victim exists" was not to deny that an individual who is infringed upon has a vibrational status in the first place, but rather to deny the reality of the archetypal vibrational status of the victim as proposed by Anagogy. This would be the difference between the broad proposal that if someone experiences a certain material phenomenon, that this means that they exist vibrationally on the same planetary sphere wherein that phenomenon may manifest, and the narrow proposal that there is some archetypal vibration within the individual that causes them to experience that material phenomenon. The following quote elaborates upon the concept of the archetypal vibrational status of the victim:

Similarly, a rape victim does not deliberately attract rape, rather, they simply, for whatever reason, get out of alignment with who they really are. We never truly know the contents of another's mind but when someone dwells in emotional negativity for a prolonged period of time it is because their thoughts, or attention, are on what they perceive to be "undesirable circumstances". Negative emotions are always attached to thoughts, even if they are extremely subtle. Wherever you place your attention activates a vibration. You are strumming a vibrational cord. That cord either resonates with your spiritual complex, or it does not, or it sort of does, or it sort of doesn't (lukewarm resonance). You perceive that resonance, or lack thereof, as emotion. That is your translation of it. Emotion is your spiritual compass.

So when you dwell on "what is not wanted", you tend to attract more of that. Your thoughts are magnets for experience, and experiences can be anything: people, places, events, magazine articles, internet sites, whatever. If our thoughts were pure and noncontradicted, the experiential manifestation would be also, however usually at our level, they are not, so often we just get a sort of mish-mash of experience. But whatever we are experiencing, it is a perfect vibrational match to the resonance of our thoughts.

[...]

The more you know what you want, the more you know what you don't want. I bring that up in regards to your question about "victims" because when you get REALLY out of alignment with what is wanted, you get REALLY into alignment with what is NOT wanted. See how that works? So, things like rape (and other horrible shadow things) are the unpleasant negative bounty one reaps of consistently not following their bliss.

[anagogy]

Back when I first learned about the law of attraction and intention-manifestation, I used to think that you had to consciously focus on exactly what you wanted to get it, but I eventually came to realize it doesn't actually work that way.

The infinite understanding present within the intelligent infinity within all things knows EXACTLY what you want at all times, in all spaces, and all places. And when what you wanted fails to occur it is simply due to resistance (which as discussed earlier, could be preincarnatively set up).

Thus, when you release a great deal of resistance you begin to unconsciously and automatically have really good "divine" timing. You don't have to "intend" that your food is made right when you go to a restaurant, it just IS. You don't have to intend for good health, you just thrive. You don't have to intend to have a parking place when you get to the store, there just is one. You don't have to intend that you will have a good experience at a particular social event, you just DO. You don't have to consciously sort everything out. It's already sorted out at the spiritual level. The conscious work is simply in letting go of resistant thoughts/perspectives/beliefs. It is all about allowing. Everything else is automatic and self directing.

This is what I mean when I say you are constantly defining wanted and unwanted. You've had enough life experience to know how you like things, you have preferences whether you realize it or not. And when you are in a state of allowing, you go out into the world and that is exactly what you find. And when you are in a state of resistance, you will find a degree of negation of that.

As the one infinite creator, we manifest absolutely effortlessly. In fact whenever effort is involved it almost always indicates a degree of resistance.

That is the simultaneous curse and benefit of the 3rd density ego. It energizes more unique and interesting desires from the cosmos because the intense degree of separation provides a similar intensity of unique perspective, but it simultaneously vastly increases the likelihood of getting crossways of the current of creative energy that flows among and between all things. There is always a give and take. 2nd density beings are on the other end of the spectrum, being far more allowing and less resistant than humans, but having less specifically focused creative desires.

[sjel]

As the one infinite creator, we manifest absolutely effortlessly. In fact whenever effort is involved it almost always indicates a degree of resistance.

That is the simultaneous curse and benefit of the 3rd density ego. It energizes more unique and interesting desires from the cosmos because the intense degree of separation provides a similar intensity of unique perspective, but it simultaneously vastly increases the likelihood of getting crossways of the current of creative energy that flows among and between all things. There is always a give and take. 2nd density beings are on the other end of the spectrum, being far more allowing and less resistant than humans, but having less specifically focused creative desires.

so fourth density and above is the blissful combination of specific, honed, focused, creative desire, and a simultaenous absence of resistance? that sounds fucking fantastic

[Mahakali]

Note, it's not that I don't believe in manifestation, I just think that is different from the fabric of one's life.

I don't think they're different at all.

I also don't think that you "vibrationally call" everything to you, or at least not consciously.

But I think the key to understanding these things is to remove the illusion that manifestation is different from the fabric of one's life. If everything is one, then all it takes to get out of your problems is hitting the right notes in order to realize the distortion of domination over one's situation.

We're all a part of the original thought, no matter what distortion we may be experiencing, and I think it's that which is truly incredible.

[Aion]

Note, it's not that I don't believe in manifestation, I just think that is different from the fabric of one's life.

I don't think they're different at all.

I also don't think that you "vibrationally call" everything to you, or at least not consciously.

But I think the key to understanding these things is to remove the illusion that manifestation is different from the fabric of one's life. If everything is one, then all it takes to get out of your problems is hitting the right notes in order to realize the distortion of domination over one's situation.

We're all a part of the original thought, no matter what distortion we may be experiencing, and I think it's that which is truly incredible.

Sounds beautiful, but something tells me it's not so 'simple'. Maybe it is simple, who knows. However I see it that manifestation is the ability to call threads from the tapestry of life, but to say it is the same is to say life and 'living' are the same. I am sure you will say that they are. I think, however, that all of the processes within the One, within Infinity, are only definable by their differences.

Otherwise I might as well just shut up and say 'All Is 'One' ad infinitum forever, but that doesn't sounds very fun to me. Yes, all is one, so what? That just means it is what it is and nothing else.

[Mahakali]

Sounds beautiful, but something tells me it's not so 'simple'. Maybe it is simple, who knows. However I see it that manifestation is the ability to call threads from the tapestry of life, but to say it is the same is to say life and 'living' are the same. I am sure you will say that they are. I think, however, that all of the processes within the One, within Infinity, are only definable by their differences.

Otherwise I might as well just shut up and say 'All Is 'One' ad infinitum forever, but that doesn't sounds very fun to me. Yes, all is one, so what? That just means it is what it is and nothing else.

Well, yes, so they are only definable by their differences... but as the quote goes, illusion is complex; truth is simple.

And I think that really is the case. The distortions may be extremely complex, but the process on which they are built is, in and of itself, incredibly simple.

Real black magick is about creating a black hole, or a place where order breaks down completely. STS as many practice it, and as most people on this forum refer to it, I don't think really goes anywhere spiritually.

The more one focuses on trying to understand and manipulate the universe "as it is", according to the laws created by thoughtforms of this logos as well as our own species and probably many others,

but as you begin to vibrate at your own pace, you, like the logos, can create your own physical laws, your own universe.

If you're looking at crystallizing the energy centers and using the central nervous system as catalyst for the use of intelligent infinity, that's fine, but I don't think it ends there, nor does it have to begin with orthodox ways of doing things. All is the creator...

Yeah, it might sound stupid, but I'm starting to catch on to what it really means, starting to understand the reality of it, due to my situation and my own desperate necessity.

[Minyatur]

Yeah, it might sound stupid, but I'm starting to catch on to what it really means, starting to understand the reality of it, due to my situation and my own desperate necessity.

While I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, I'm not sure if you seek to look at the STS path with a look on the simple truth of it like you do on the rest. If you really consider your situation as desperate, then understand that the STS path only offer rejection of yourself and will create further needs of healing.

It's a path where you regret it all before accepting it all, so you can't say you inherently find it all well because you don't, but yeah you will come to understand and forgive yourself because you are all things and all things can be understood. Once understanding is found, forgiveness is inherent because there never really is something to forgive.

[Aion]

Sounds beautiful, but something tells me it's not so 'simple'. Maybe it is simple, who knows. However I see it that manifestation is the ability to call threads from the tapestry of life, but to say it is the same is to say life and 'living' are the same. I am sure you will say that they are. I think, however, that all of the processes within the One, within Infinity, are only definable by their differences.

Otherwise I might as well just shut up and say 'All Is 'One' ad infinitum forever, but that doesn't sounds very fun to me. Yes, all is one, so what? That just means it is what it is and nothing else.

Well, yes, so they are only definable by their differences... but as the quote goes, illusion is complex; truth is simple.

And I think that really is the case. The distortions may be extremely complex, but the process on which they are built is, in and of itself, incredibly simple.

Real black magick is about creating a black hole, or a place where order breaks down completely. STS as many practice it, and as most people on this forum refer to it, I don't think really goes anywhere spiritually.

The more one focuses on trying to understand and manipulate the universe "as it is", according to the laws created by thoughtforms of this logos as well as our own species and probably many others,

but as you begin to vibrate at your own pace, you, like the logos, can create your own physical laws, your own universe.

If you're looking at crystallizing the energy centers and using the central nervous system as catalyst for the use of intelligent infinity, that's fine, but I don't think it ends there, nor does it have to begin with orthodox ways of doing things. All is the creator...

Yeah, it might sound stupid, but I'm starting to catch on to what it really means, starting to understand the reality of it, due to my situation and my own desperate necessity.

I am actually quite, quite familiar with black magic in the way you express it. I know of the bottom of the pit, the black hole as it might be put. The 'isolate psyche-centric reality' is surely an attainable goal, perhaps in some ways desirable. However, in the Void where anything is everything and you are master of all possibilities I found still mystery.

I think it is amusing and admittedly somewhat confused to tote the idea of oneness while also trying to progress the idea of a self isolate universe that is separate from all.

[Mahakali]

While I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, I'm not sure if you seek to look at the STS path with a look on the simple truth of it like you do on the rest. If you really consider your situation as desperate, then understand that the STS path only offer rejection of yourself and will create further needs of healing.

It's a path where you regret it all before accepting it all, so you can't say you inherently find it all well because you don't, but yeah you will come to understand and forgive yourself because you are all things and all things can be understood. Once understanding is found, forgiveness is inherent because there never really is something to forgive.

Maybe. I don't know. Again, maybe what I'm referring to as "black magick" isn't exactly what you're referring to. There is little need for damage - to myself or other-selves - during the alchemical process I'm trying to achieve.

Basically, I want to develop contact with intelligent infinity, and, from there, learn and absorb patterns to use in my own creations before separating.

I am actually quite, quite familiar with black magic in the way you express it. I know of the bottom of the pit, the black hole as it might be put. The 'isolate psyche-centric reality' is surely an attainable goal, perhaps in some ways desirable. However, in the Void where anything is everything and you are master of all possibilities I found still mystery.

I think it is amusing and admittedly somewhat confused to tote the idea of oneness while also trying to progress the idea of a self isolate universe that is separate from all.

And what do you think is the best way to go about attaining this goal?

The concept of oneness is useful in the sense of operating within this illusion for the purpose of healing negative and damaging distortions to the physical body complex and such, as well as working within this illusion to prolong my life within it while I develop myself spiritually.

I've been tortured extensively by negative entities in an attempt to get me to develop brain cancer and such, and I need to be able to perceive no difference between myself and the distortion in question in order to alter it to my liking and get myself to survive long enough to generate the spiritual, intellectual, and emotional distortions that would lead to a desirable afterlife, or extend this one, or whatever the case may be. This is where the concept of one-ness becomes useful.

[Minyatur]

While I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, I'm not sure if you seek to look at the STS path with a look on the simple truth of it like you do on the rest. If you really consider your situation as desperate, then understand that the STS path only offer rejection of yourself and will create further needs of healing.

It's a path where you regret it all before accepting it all, so you can't say you inherently find it all well because you don't, but yeah you will come to understand and forgive yourself because you are all things and all things can be understood. Once understanding is found, forgiveness is inherent because there never really is something to forgive.

Maybe. I don't know. Again, maybe what I'm referring to as "black magick" isn't exactly what you're referring to. There is little need for damage - to myself or other-selves - during the alchemical process I'm trying to achieve.

Basically, I want to develop contact with intelligent infinity, and, from there, learn and absorb patterns to use in my own creations before separating.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure about what you want to do but it still feels like you are merely creating rejection with your own self and that this will need to find resolution somewhen.

[Aion]

While I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, I'm not sure if you seek to look at the STS path with a look on the simple truth of it like you do on the rest. If you really consider your situation as desperate, then understand that the STS path only offer rejection of yourself and will create further needs of healing.

It's a path where you regret it all before accepting it all, so you can't say you inherently find it all well because you don't, but yeah you will come to understand and forgive yourself because you are all things and all things can be understood. Once understanding is found, forgiveness is inherent because there never really is something to forgive.

Maybe. I don't know. Again, maybe what I'm referring to as "black magick" isn't exactly what you're referring to. There is little need for damage - to myself or other-selves - during the alchemical process I'm trying to achieve.

Basically, I want to develop contact with intelligent infinity, and, from there, learn and absorb patterns to use in my own creations before separating.

I am actually quite, quite familiar with black magic in the way you express it. I know of the bottom of the pit, the black hole as it might be put. The 'isolate psyche-centric reality' is surely an attainable goal, perhaps in some ways desirable. However, in the Void where anything is everything and you are master of all possibilities I found still mystery.

I think it is amusing and admittedly somewhat confused to tote the idea of oneness while also trying to progress the idea of a self isolate universe that is separate from all.

And what do you think is the best way to go about attaining this goal?

The concept of oneness is useful in the sense of operating within this illusion for the purpose of healing negative and damaging distortions to the physical body complex and such, as well as working within this illusion to prolong my life within it while I develop myself spiritually.

I've been tortured extensively by negative entities in an attempt to get me to develop brain cancer and such, and I need to be able to perceive no difference between myself and the distortion in question in order to alter it to my liking and get myself to survive long enough to generate the spiritual, intellectual, and emotional distortions that would lead to a desirable afterlife, or extend this one, or whatever the case may be. This is where the concept of one-ness becomes useful.

The best way is to kill your self, the identity you have convinced yourself you are.

[Mahakali]

The best way is to kill your self, the identity you have convinced yourself you are.

How would this help?

I mean... one level, I understand, but if I'm trying to achieve a particular effect, suicide is more likely to be counter-productive...

Breaking myself down is something I understand; I need to figure out hoe to build properly.

I'm trying to figure out where the rules are and how things work here, how exactly thought interacts with reality, and how the unity works, how to tesser and utilize thoughtforms in a powerful enough manner.

[Minyatur]

I'm trying to figure out where the rules are and how things work here, how exactly thought interacts with reality, and how the unity works, how to tesser and utilize thoughtforms in a powerful enough manner.

I guess the key of this would be in asking yourself how you came to be where you are.

What was the free will that lead to your birth and surrounding rules it had to align with.