Courting the maiden

[Jade]

Also wanted to add that I don't think one needs to lie to be courting. If I was for exemple entering a room with people I don't know and engage conversation with females by an identification process like asking what's your name, how old are you, what's your job, what are your interests, where do you live, that would be courting. It could be both considered as a way of attracting others to me and a way of projecting my self on others. But I know that even though I have not lied there is no relevant information to be shared at this point and that by starting off like this I would be myself engaging the conditional and superficial process of identification like reading a facebook profile and that the new relationships would have that as the foundation no matter what happens next. If I instead walk in that room and let nature unfold by itself and speak with those I meet first or those I feel compelled to talk to first, the attraction process will occur anyway and intuition will do the rest without any need for changing myself to please. I trust that someone else's intuition will do the same and that both will meet in an uncondtional athmosphere that makes them want to open to each other without any need for the identification process. That is not courting to me because there is no trying to attract. It just naturally evolve if there is resonance.

I also don't think one can simply switch of archetypal study because they each have different values that cannot be permutated. While astrology focus more on the starting guidelines of your incarnation it cannot define your whole journey. The tarot focus more on the transformation and evolution through the journey and the tree of life focus more and the nature of reality. One can resonate more with one of them but they do not replace one another.

I think you are drawing an arbitrary line between getting to know someone on a mundane level and getting to know someone on a deeper level. It's all under the umbrella of "courting", yes some of it is more superficial than others, but obviously Ra was talking about it at its least superficial and purest level. I guess I understand your issue with semantics, but do you understand then what it means to utilize the transformation? Because I feel like over and over I'm describing the transformation of the mind, but you still take issue with it. What is your understanding of the Transformation of the Mind and how to use it? It's about "choosing betwixt dark and light in the mind". It requires abandoning "one principle governing the use of the deep mind". Asking someone their name and profession is not on the "dark" end of the spectrum, but this analogy is what helps develop the spectrum. Asking their name and profession so that you can catalogue it later for your benefit to seduce them, that would be taking the "plundering" attitude, seeing the mind and the otherselves as only for the use of their resources and the gratification therefrom. Asking the name and profession BECAUSE OF the magnetic draw is just something stupid humans do when they are "courting". Because again, The Fool's Journey, we're all bozos. We know nothing. We think we know our High Priestess, but we never will really know her in 3rd density. So to take that attitude that "I already get what I need from this resource and I don't have to work on the relationship" is not abandoning one of the uses of governing the mind. There is much mystery to be had yet.

I only suggested that you study another archetypical system because it seems to me that the idea of "courting" the High Priestess seems highly unpalatable to you. Yes, the Ra archetypes are about the transformation of mind/body/spirit, and this is the Transformation of the Mind which is the first and most important step. If you recognize that the Tarot is about transformation and evolution, then why are you so resistant to changing anything?

[Minyatur]

I think the purpose of the disagreement was to extend the definition of this archetype and it is something you also did, although you may not see differences in the multiple ways you have defined it, I do see many of them as how it can open another to the archetype.

What it seems to me is that courting image is a love based focus upon the archetype which works for love/wisdom distorted beings whereas a wisdom/love distorted being is unlikely to resonate with this image, which creates a need to develop further what this limited perspective of the archetype opens a window unto. This in no way denies the system nor the archetype.

As I have stated from my personal experiences, there is for me a teaching partnership with my High Priestess, which while not being anything like plundering, is not anything like courting either. So I don't think the polarity of the archetype can be fully expressed through this one image, while I can still see the point that is made through it.

To take your example of going out in the rain and dance, this is not something I would do as I am disonant with it but also is something I would not be asked to do. Here, what I see is that acts of faith can create polarizing moments and I've had some of my own, as it is a natural part of the process which I do not see as courting the High Priestess. The only reason I can perceive that one would be asked to go out and dance in the rain, is because of the nonsense of it, through an act of faith, would create movement within through the feelings it generates. Me, I am someone who will seek to understand why first and this act would thus become meaningless.

A similar occurence I had was that I felt compelled to buy a scratch lottery ticket which "I knew" was a winning one and that I knew I was meant to give it unscratched to an homeless person. Was a 777 ticket that was winning 7$ (yay syncs) and I ended up scrathing it first to see that it was winning beforehand. This ruined the catalyst opportunity I felt compelled to offer and I was allowed to perceive what could've been if I had went with it.

To me, the positive transformation of the mind through the High Priestess will be built upon respect and teaching in a wisdom oriented manner, through interactions between facets of myself.

[Minyatur]

I guess not all can agree with me, but I do think the purpose of every image given is to act as an entry point that needs to be moved beyond. The image is much like a flickering shadow cast upon a wall, that exists through a given angle of the light that illumates the archetype.

[Jade]

That perspective makes me think of this quote:

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this.

It seems to me that you are rationalizing yourself out of serving others. The act becomes meaningless through wisdom? Indeed so does feeding the starving entity. It's about engaging the act of service to others, because of love, because we are in 3rd density moving into 4th. Dancing in the rain is an analogy for an act of service to others on a whim.

Dancing in the rain was not the best analogy on my part. Let me offer, that the High Priestess suggests to you to read a book. Yes you can meditate and obtain the wisdom you need passively without the book, but it's about enjoying the process. The path. Following the clues, the hints, gradually lifting the veil. And then the subsequent integration of the mind into the body complex, to then manifest unity and love as we have learned it within. I don't think we're here to manifest more wisdom.

[Minyatur]

The act I spoke of becomes meaningless through wisdom in regards to myself and did not include service to others.

The example I gave from my own experience was meant to serve others through an act of faith which I was able to discern the meaning of through wisdom.

...

In regards to the starving entity, a wisdom approach would be to ask yourself why it is desired that an entity was starving and what led you to this particular one so that you could feed it in constrast to each ones you had not the opportunity to feed.

Ra said that some come here to be healers and other teachers, I see more value in teaching than temporary allevating the karma of others, while knowing that fate guides my step to those that needs me while leading others to those that needs them.

[Minyatur]

If your High Priestess suggested you to not feed an entity that you see starving, what would you do?

[Spaced]

Seems like you like to deal with hypotheticals a lot. Don't overthink it, just give the person some food. They are hungry and it's in your power to do it, what's the use of rationalizing reasons not to?

[Minyatur]

Seems like you like to deal with hypotheticals a lot. Don't overthink it, just give the person some food. They are hungry and it's in your power to do it, what's the use of rationalizing reasons not to?

Well in this case your intuition tells you it is more helpful not to. You can trust it, seek to put into words why or reject it altogether. So it is not about overthinking but what your intuition tells you.

I like this scenario because one may come across the fact that the desire to feed is in itself self-serving and comes from the fact self cannot watch itself starve in another.

[Jade]

If I see a person who is starving, and they are asking me for food, and I have food to give them, and my intuition tells me not to feed them? Well, I'd consider that some sort of negative greeting, because when someone is looking at me and asking for my help, any "nudge" to say no seems to me like it isn't of the positive polarity. Because we're talking about starvation as a desperate need of the body complex - why would it ever be rational to just let that person starve to death? As a "wisdom lesson" from a teacher?

Ra says: The proper response is to feed a starving entity, and that we can extrapolate from that. My extrapolation is that if my intuition is telling me not to feed a starving entity, then I am entertaining an idea that is of separation and not unity.

[Jade]

There are two options: Radiation or absorption. Keeping the extra food for myself in the face of one who needs it is absorption. Giving the food willingly is radiation.

[Night Owl]

Allright maybe my analogy was superficial itself and it has clouded it a bit. What I am trying to convey is the fact that the transformation of the mind can be seen as courting the high priestest but does not EQUAL courting the high priestess because courting is too narrow to cover this archetype. If I take the same analogy and apply it to friends or animals it still works. Courting is about attracting or pulling others to you, whatever the mean is. If for exemple I decide today to go take a walk in a forest and encounter a squirel. At this point the magician has already expressed a will to go on an adventure where transformation will occur but there is no courting involved. If when I meet the squirel I walk up to it it will most likely run away and it definitely was courting because it was an act of pulling towards me, maybe even too forceful for a squirel. If however I stop and am curious and all ears about it and let it decide wheter it is afraid and run or if it is curious and want to approach me then it is not courting but there is this exact act of faith and transformation will occur without courting. I think it really is a question of what is your relationship with your high priestess and just like I have said one can have as many different relationship with his high prietess as one can have with any other beings. There is not only one way of dealing with it just like there is not only one way to deal with anybody.


Again I don't dismiss the validity of the archetype or your analogy, it is simply one focus upon many that it can have. That's actually the tarot's strenght that there is lots of room for interpretation. I just hope that you understand it is possible that your analogy doesn't cover the archetype entirely. Just one person who doesn't relate is proof to me that it is not all-encompassing. But again you can blame it on me not understanding but I think I do. I have read the session and have not cringed while reading it. I would mostly agree that your analogy may cover the majority of people though and still think it is a good analogy nevertheless.

[Minyatur]

If I see a person who is starving, and they are asking me for food, and I have food to give them, and my intuition tells me not to feed them? Well, I'd consider that some sort of negative greeting, because when someone is looking at me and asking for my help, any "nudge" to say no seems to me like it isn't of the positive polarity. Because we're talking about starvation as a desperate need of the body complex - why would it ever be rational to just let that person starve to death? As a "wisdom lesson" from a teacher?  

Ra says: The proper response is to feed a starving entity, and that we can extrapolate from that. My extrapolation is that if my intuition is telling me not to feed a starving entity, then I am entertaining an idea that is of separation and not unity.

Well the first case I can think of is that by feeding the person on this day could influence his life decisions and reinforce that the person will starve on more other times.

Another is that the person's soul could learn lessons from the experience, and that your inability to see the person starve can be more self serving than truly providing a service.

Is not the whole point of intuition that it knows beyond what you know and part of the process to let go on how you see things from a matrix standpoint? I see beauty in compassion and accomodance but to me they also seem like mindless love that seeks not to understand. Luckily your desire to serve in such ways will usually lead you to those it will be truly be helpful toward, if not then you will unconsciously know (High Priestess) and can either dismiss or not this insight.

[Night Owl]

I think though that if it is really critical situation you should at least teach him how to feed himself if you do not give him food. Doing nothing at all is a ticket to the sinkhole.

[Minyatur]

While I understand your 3D-4D focus, I think it is well to think that most wanderers come from 6D to learn the balance of love and wisdom. Also, since most would be from the positive path, it is highly unlikely to me that most are here to reinforce love and compassion, but instead wisdom.

Then again, I guess it is your duty to find what you are set to learn from this sea of mirrors unto yourself.

[Minyatur]

I think though that if it is really critical situation you should at least teach him how to feed himself if you do not give him food. Doing nothing at all is a ticket to the sinkhole.

Yet did you not say yourself that to you the highest form of love is to let things evolve on their own?

I think many seems to not accept that each one is the creator of his own reality. You can teach the person to feed itself, but is learning to feed itself what the experiences is supposed bring to the soul?

I think there is both love and wisdom in becoming aware that you are not the answer every other-self requires.

[Night Owl]

Well you are not wrong either, but wisdom should tell you how critical the situation is. If I compare this to crossing homeless people everyday in the subway it is more than accurate because unless you feed them all, day after day, an act of giving to only one of them a single time can come to make you feel worst afterward and you may lose polarity. But assuming you cross someone crawling in the desert almost dying, I think wisdom will tell you to open your heart. Sometimes some people just need a little push in the right direction because they are in a dark clouded fog.

[Spaced]

No offense but that just sounds like a total cop out Minyatur. Just endless mental gymnastics about why you don't need to do anything for anyone. There is absolutely no use in adopting a transcendent persona that tries to rise above catalyst without addressing it, that's just an ego defense mechanism.

[Night Owl]

I don't think you necessarily need to do something at all in the universe. You can lie on the floor not moving but I think there are those situation where you will be called where you will yourself desire to offer help if wisdom tells you it will be effective. I guess he's debating on: is that really helpful or not? But who wouldn't want to help if it really does help. I think this is what wisdom is there to tell you. There are those situations where not helping someone will help them help themselves and there are those situations where someone is so desperate that this someone is helpless.

[Minyatur]

No offense but that just sounds like a total cop out Minyatur. Just endless mental gymnastics about why you don't need to do anything for anyone. There is absolutely no use in adopting a transcendent persona that tries to rise above catalyst without addressing it, that's just an ego defense mechanism.

I seek to discuss the archetype in this thread, I have no need to justify myself.

I gave an example of where the High Priestess can ask something one is not in direct alignment with through inherent feelings, because as Jade said there should be a process of letting go and the archetypes are a mean to see beyond the matrix, so why should there be clinging to the present moment and inability to see the love in it?

[Jade]

While I understand your 3D-4D focus, I think it is well to think that most wanderers come from 6D to learn the balance of love and wisdom. Also, since most would be from the positive path, it is highly unlikely to me that most are here to reinforce love and compassion, but instead wisdom.

Then again, I guess it is your duty to find what you are set to learn from this sea of mirrors unto yourself.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Why would we come to this veiled, confusing experience to reinforce wisdom?

I'm not sure you saw my write-up of a recent Q'uo channeling, but it addresses this point of view.

Q'uo: Folly is not the same thing as love, but in a world which is defined too much by wisdom, it can seem folly to love at all. Therefore, we might say that it is indeed the greater act of wisdom to allow wisdom itself to be curtailed in the face of love. It is never wrong to inquire about the modes in which love may reasonably be expected to have sway in particular kinds of circumstances. It is never an untoward question to ask whether the loved one feels in one’s heart would be well received, but there is a moment in which the bubbling up of love from within will not be denied, and a wisdom that counsels it is better not to take a chance, which refuses to allow that expression, is not the greater part of wisdom.

Life itself, however, is a chance, and love is its main chance. And so even those who have become wise with the passing of years, with the passing of generations, must realize in the end that the greatest gift that life has to offer is the gift that surpasses understanding, is the gift that puts one in relation to the mystery of being, and the more open the heart is, the more that mystery can be plumbed. It is a mystery that perpetually confounds the understanding. It is a mystery that cannot be made the subject of any wisdom.

We would say that wisdom has its place; we would say that sound judgment is never to be despised, but if judgment is given full and sole sway, that is precisely the first step on the path to a mode of service which contracts itself merely to the parameters of the serving self. That self which seeks to serve, not solely, its thus-contracted self, must be the blossom that opens itself in love to the creation, and must therefore be foolish precisely to that extent.

http://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues..._0326.aspx

[Jade]

And to answer the big question: Why change anything at all? Because we are here, incarnate in the illusion. We have specific parameters through which we can create. Trial and erroring those parameters is what the third density experience is all about. Yeah you can sit in a cave in 5th density and meditate on wisdom and converse with high density teachers but you aren't, right now you are incarnated into a 3rd density body within this greater third density body illusion, presumably, to act. To change things. To experience the inward growth that leads to a visible outward growth. To watch planet Earth shift from third density to fourth density, and maybe along the way, help a few other incarnate entities along the way reach graduation. Reaching graduation requires absolutely nothing of wisdom. You can teach the starving entity how to fish, but in this context, that's like trying to teach an entity about the densities when they are on the verge of killing their neighbor. You are skipping many lessons for the other entity. This is also why you are correct that "courting the maiden" is not a blanket statement of action, but much more nuanced depending on what entity you are trying to serve. Most likely, they will benefit more from the open-hearted gesture than they would from any attempts at education. You often need triage before you can address the root issue, especially when we are dealing with an analogy as critical as "starving".

[Minyatur]

While I understand your 3D-4D focus, I think it is well to think that most wanderers come from 6D to learn the balance of love and wisdom. Also, since most would be from the positive path, it is highly unlikely to me that most are here to reinforce love and compassion, but instead wisdom.

Then again, I guess it is your duty to find what you are set to learn from this sea of mirrors unto yourself.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Why would we come to this veiled, confusing experience to reinforce wisdom?

Because a positive and full of love entity will allow itself to experience what is unlike the love it knows, to act in manners that are opposite to the love it knows. It will be tested and confused and in this will learn lessons. Wisdom to me is to understand why things are. Your compassion can be great but if it disallow you to see love in all of the things that surround you and only inspires you to bring change to what is, then do you truly love what is or are you trying to fix what you see as imperfect?

I might not find myself to be the most compassionate entity, but I found within myself a love for this world and it's circumstances that I don't think there are many that can find something similar.

Each person that has been starving, each person that has suffered, each person that did not receive help, each person that was broken, each of these things are but your own desires. If you truly want to see things as without separation, then you ought to see each of these things as what I said, your own desire to witness and experience.

[Night Owl]

I'd add that since I have myself said that letting things unfold naturally is the highest form of love to me, opening my heart is sometimes what it is to let things unfold naturally because I see the moment as calling to it. Sometimes it is not yes because of unconscious parameters from others that call me to make them help themselves, but sometimes if I close my heart I feel it is resisting the moment and it is something that I have tested many many times on occasions where I did court my maiden. Wisdom is the thing that seperates each opportunity in their different lessons to be learned, not what transcend the whole 3D experience. I think all the 6D wisdom can be contained in the 3D experience since each density is parallel and superimposed. The ability to reach for it does not transcend anything, else there would be no need for anything else than void. I'd be ok with the void but it has already been decided that the universe work against the void so I accept my role in this experience because there is no other way. The only way forward from now.

[Jade]

The only reason we have the veil, is so that people can be broken and starving, so that others can rise up to serve them. That's the whole point. 3rd density is the "axis upon which Creation turns" because doing stuff creates more stuff to do, for us in this density and for the higher densities who tend over the lower densities. That's all. It's not because I don't love everything as it is, quite the contrary. I understand the archetypical cycle and that's why I'm happy to participate in it, because that's what pleases this Logos, and helps perpetuate further Creation upon this beautiful plane. Ra talks about this in all of the "before the veil" discussion. Without suffering, there is no desire to serve. 3rd density is about cultivating the desire to serve.

[Night Owl]

Funny how in this thread I can agree and disagree simultaneously with everybody. I think everybody is right and wrong.... in certain contexts. I don't think for exemple that we are here to change the earth but to love it, in which I would agree with minyatur but I also think the natural way of letting evolve and loving is not to close the heart on catalyst. It's all really so relative that at this point I don't really know what there is to argue. You are all relatively right and wrong and I love you wise people. I see the love in the moment and am grateful for this discussion.

[Minyatur]

I believe the purpose of the veil to be to diversify the experience of the Creator of Itself and not to create broken beings that you can serve. Their experience is their own well before being a catalyst for others.

[Jade]

Well that's one way to put it. Of course their experience is their own, but we are in a collectively created illusion. The whole point is to create things together, actively, with will, drive, and focus, towards that which is "good" as an objective goal for all but also on a one-on-one "courting" basis, if we want to polarize STO. Sitting back and watching things unfold is the sinkhole IMO.

[Spaced]

Funny how in this thread I can agree and disagree simultaneously with everybody. I think everybody is right and wrong.... in certain contexts. I don't think for exemple that we are here to change the earth but to love it, in which I would agree with minyatur but I also think the natural way of letting evolve and loving is not to close the heart on catalyst. It's all really so relative that at this point I don't really know what there is to argue. You are all relatively right and wrong and I love you wise people.

Yep I know what you mean, that's why I find it really hard to engage in conversations like this one (and why I actually avoided this forum for a while). Usually by offering an opinion you are distilling a thought into a slanted, polarized half-truth, and to make things more complicated everyone's opinion has at it's core some kernel of truth so I often find committing to a position in a debate somewhat of a losing battle. For example, I actually agree with a lot of Minyatur's points about letting things develop on their own and the idea of "you're here to love it, not to change it".

THAT SAID I feel that there is another side of that that is equally true, which is that by loving something, you do change it! Change is the only constant of the universe and that's because love is constantly driving the universe to transform. The Lovers is the transformation of the mind, and Death is the transformation of the body (i.e. transformation of the physical experience) and so we get the saying "find something you love and let it kill you".

To me taking a position where you are content to do nothing is a form of denial of the self because in being content to let others learn their own lessons you are denying yourself of the catalyst of helping them and at the same time you are denying them of the catalyst of being helped. There's no growth, no polarization, just the status quo.

[Night Owl]

I think that depends a lot on what's in your mind while letting things unfold.

And I agree love kills. I have a hard time taking ownership of this kind of carnage.

[Minyatur]

Well that's one way to put it. Of course their experience is their own, but we are in a collectively created illusion. The whole point is to create things together, actively, with will, drive, and focus, towards that which is "good" as an objective goal for all but also on a one-on-one "courting" basis, if we want to polarize STO. Sitting back and watching things unfold is the sinkhole IMO.

Well each works from their own distortions. Relativity is mainly what I've been trying to put in this thread. Each it's own resistance, each it's own keys and play toward unveiling, each his own distortions to work with.

The example I gave is one where your own High Priestess would tell you that the best service you could provide would be to not act. Who knows, maybe because of this such a case will come to be part of your experience and it will be a challenge to make a choice between what you consciously perceive and what you unconsciously perceive.