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[GentleWanderer]

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[Minyatur]

This is in my view the most energitically freeing process one can undertake. It is not for nothing that Ra says forgiveness ends the wheel of karma. Forgiveness is something you can't avoid and simply resist for a time.

As one becomes fully aware of his fate and desires that gave birth to itself, resentment becomes nonsense and would be replaced with gratefulness for each thing, even/especially those that have hurt yourself and others.

We all are one thing, one infinitely beautiful thing.

[rva_jeremy]

There's a podcast I really enjoy called Philosophy Bites and they had a really interesting interview on the philosophy of forgiveness.  The interviewee provides a lot of thoughtful commentary on the character and nature of the act of forgiveness I'm not sure I previously appreciated.  It appears that there is a real sincerity involved, where one releases the one from censure while at the same time accepting the trespass.  

It is not the same thing, in other words, as simply forgetting the trespass or putting it out of mind.  That's a kind of shortcut that preserves the emotional resonance and resentful charge.  It is instead an acknowledgement, in a way, to restore the love and acceptance despite the trespass.  This involves the acceptance of the other as well as the full and undistorted acceptance of the perceived injured part of the self. My work with forgiveness has definitely yielded the insight that much of what pushes the trespasser away from us in our heart is our own inability to face our hurt and disappointment. So that's a facet of forgiveness that I'm working on right now--to understand these two viewpoints on an exchange as Creator-to-Creator and to ensure that no crumbs are left behind when that reality is grounded and absorbed.

[YinYang]

Forgiveness is an area in my inner life that I have spent much time on lately, and it certainly is a process.

I journal nowadays, and while I journal many things fall in place for me and I have new realisations, when I look back at how the dominoes have fallen. I'm someone who remembers every little detail, doesn't matter if its decades ago, which I sometimes think is more of a curse than a blessing!

Something that has been a recurring theme in my life is me not trusting myself when it comes to people, or ignoring behaviour and events that is very revealing about a person.

One of the greatest lessons I have learned is from Maya Angelou, and that is if someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Many of the people who have wronged me, have shown me multiple times who they are before "I" ended up in their cross hairs, but I just didn't trust myself enough to admit to myself that I'm not okay with this or that kind of behaviour or action.

So this lesson is very valuable to me, and I actually feel grateful towards the "teachers" who taught me this lesson... it was dearly bought... I finally trust myself, and my own discernment, and I listen to my intuition nowadays.

[YinYang]

One of my favourite quotes is this one from C. Joybell C.

“Previously, as I went through life, I was in full belief of the concept of "blending" (I was fully convinced that I as a person am completely capable of blending myself in the accordance of friendship, in order to give respect to the differences between people and in order for others to feel that I respect them). However, I have come to learn at this time in my life, that such an attitude is all good for a while, but then there does come a point where you must see and identify yourself; also see and identify others! You have to be able to identify yourself as someone who is made happy by this and as someone who doesn't like that; then when you meet people, discern if those same things are the things that make them happy and if those same things are the things that they don't like, because at a point in time it becomes beneficial to you, to not waste time on blending in behalf of virtue but rather it becomes beneficial to you, to see yourself and go into the direction that makes you happy, taking people with you that are already going in that same direction and who also do not like the things that you do not like. At the end of the day, there are those paths in life, and you have to take one of them, you can't walk down all of them.”

[Nicholas]

Just a few weeks ago I had noticed thoughts of contempt for an old girlfriend. We were only together for 6 months when I was 19 years old. It turned out that she cheated on me multiple times. I don't regret reading her diary without permission though. Anyway, these thoughts crept in and I noticed their capacity to block my heart centre. And so I gave these thoughts my attention. I reminded myself that she was only 16 at the time and was seeking catalyst just like me. I honoured her path and this slipped out of my mind...I thought...

"All is well ma'am"......

!!!!!!......?

I was really tempted to share this on Bring4th because it was such a jaw dropping slip of my subconscious tongue, but figured it was pointless because I intuited what it was hinting at.

That hint, or clue helped me to realise the importance of forgiveness with regards to karma. It also filled in a gap as to why I am with the person I am with today. I used to call my current partner my "precious princess" and it seemed to correlate with my suspicion of a life I lived as a Viking nearly 1300 years ago, in the UK. In the same town I live in now, in fact. I think I may have dumped on her in the past (for the one I am with now), and her dumping on me made sense once I explored my harbouring ill feelings towards her.

So lessons of forgiveness are intimately linked to karma imo. But to be honest I think it is more than just my opinion. I really know, at least personally, that this is so.

[GentleWanderer]

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[GentleWanderer]

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[YinYang]

I think the Poker game is quite apt for this thread:

The Poker Game

Questioner: Thank you. Can you expand on the concept which is this: that it is necessary for an entity to, during incarnation in the physical as we call it, become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when he is aware of what he wants to do, but why must he come into an incarnation and lose memory, conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way that he hopes to act? Could you expand on that please?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

I think we make the "release" much harder for ourselves, because we keep employing the conscious mind (which is an instrument of the 3rd density illusion), which is like running an old tape.

I'm reading The Power of Now again from Eckhart Tolle, and our overuse of the conscious mind is a stumbling block with forgiveness, amongst many other nasties, which prevents us from coming into the present moment. Processing catalyst is necessary, but the problem is when we don't finish the task and turn it into its opposite - acceptance, gratefulness, love, strength and growth. To me this is what alchemy refers to, transmutation of lead into gold!

[Patrick]

Letting go of our need for logic can be very helpful in forgiving.  We do not need to understand or reason the object of our forgiveness.  We just need to intend to forgive.  This intent is the cornerstone.  Every such intent making it ever easier to forgive, until it is nearly automatic and then our lives just flows and are much easier.

[GentleWanderer]

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[AnthroHeart]

I forgive myself for everything I have done, and forgive the other people for what they have done to me, when I think about it.

But the images keep coming back. Does this mean I haven't forgiven truly?

It is easy sometimes to imagine all the negative things I have done, and just feel love towards those things and myself.

Do I need to go deep into hypnosis to clear out these energies from my vibration?

Or do I just fake it till I make it with continual forgiveness?

[anagogy]

I forgive myself for everything I have done, and forgive the other people for what they have done to me, when I think about it.

But the images keep coming back. Does this mean I haven't forgiven truly?

It is easy sometimes to imagine all the negative things I have done, and just feel love towards those things and myself.

Do I need to go deep into hypnosis to clear out these energies from my vibration?

Or do I just fake it till I make it with continual forgiveness?

I don't think we will completely forget the particular events of our incarnations till we enter the seventh density.  Though occasionally, extremely traumatic memories can be erased for a soul once they are discarnate.  I don't think it is so much a problem that the images occasionally resurface, but do they carry the same negative emotional charge?  

If you have truly forgiven yourself and others, the negative emotional charge will dissipate.  If not, perhaps more forgiveness is in order.  I would almost compare forgiveness to a tone or frequency that can be entrained to, and occasionally due to life catalyst, lost temporarily.  It is essentially the same thing people call love.  Just keep healing yourself through forgiveness until you can look upon those memories without a distortion towards pain.  It sometimes helps me to forgive myself and others by reminding myself that the pain that occurred was simply the result of ignorance, on some level, of the true consequences of mine or another's actions. These experiences help us to illuminate our ignorance, and thereby prevent them from happening again in the future.  

We oftentimes know not what we do.

[AnthroHeart]

We oftentimes know not what we do.

We are only doing the best that we can do with what we have. There may be less to forgive when I reach the other side beyond the veil.

All is well, and we are all still God. That will never change.

[isis]

Personally, I can't help but have a great respect for people who find it hard (or impossible) to forgive themselves for the "negative" things they've done.

[AnthroHeart]

I think that forgiveness doesn't mean that we get off scott free.

[anagogy]

Maybe it isn't our job to forgive ourselves, maybe it is just our job to forgive others, and our forgiveness comes from other selves as well. That would make sense to me from a karmic standpoint.

[Minyatur]

I think that forgiveness doesn't mean that we get off scott free.

All is one, so to hurt yourself is to further hurt all.

Not getting off scott free is only there to teach you to forgive yourself. To stop unconsciously hurting yourself through attraction by seeing the love of the moment. So although this kind of martyrdom is beautiful, in my view it mirrors a lack of love and understanding of yourself.

[Night Owl]

Maybe it isn't our job to forgive ourselves, maybe it is just our job to forgive others, and our forgiveness comes from other selves as well.  That would make sense to me from a karmic standpoint.

Does that mean it is impossible to forgive yourself completely? Where is the line between forgiving completely and partially?

[Jade]

So here's my take: The Confederation teaches a lot about self-forgiveness being important, and about learning self-love, because I think these are lessons for Wanderers. I don't think that many Wanderers accrue -real- karma by any means, but more "thought" karma through feeling guilt for perceived inadequacies.

I see the "honor" in harboring guilt for one's actions, but that's a martyr's honor. As a Creator one should rise up and realize that they are co-Creating all of their experiences with other co-Creators, and nothing is in a vacuum - your vibrational resonance feeds another's vibrational need - that person you snapped at at the grocery store, was pulling to them the experience of a stranger's anger towards them. Both of you were involved in the catalyst's occurrence. In one way it's a catch 22 because the martyr says "This is all my fault! I've created these bad things with my bad actions!" which is in one way is taking responsibility, but while ignoring unity. Really, everything we do is co-created with other willing participants.

So yes, total self-forgiveness is important, even if the other person doesn't forgive you. Otherwise, the other person not forgiving you would be a huge power to lord over someone - say, my own father hates me for things that I'm not even sure about. I can't be concerned with his forgiveness one bit, because it may be impossible and something I'd chase forever. I can't control how others respond to me or handle their catalyst, and I can't go on in my life feeling like I have bad karma because someone hasn't forgiven me, because I will continue to create that reality because that is the reality my thoughts are feeding into. Others' thoughts only create our reality when we let them. I know in my own heart if and where I have done wrong, and it is entirely up to me when I decide to stop punishing myself for it.

So in short, as Wanderers I think we create most of our karma through guilt, which I would perceive as the opposite of self-forgiveness. Which is why self-forgiveness is an important step to stopping the wheel. It's also important because so often we project what we haven't forgiven in ourselves upon other-selves, and therefore have trouble forgiving them, which is what keeps the wheel turning.

[anagogy]

Does that mean it is impossible to forgive yourself completely? Where is the line between forgiving completely and partially?

To be honest, I think we forgive ourselves through others, but it doesn't necessarily depend on what another person does.  I think true self forgiveness occurs when you no longer blame others for imagined trespasses against self.  When you no longer hold others guilty, you no longer hold yourself guilty.  The apparent guilt of others is just an inner projection anyway.  Not in the sense that there is no pain being deliberately or indeliberately caused, bur rather, the reason it is connecting with your perspective/self/experiencial reality is because it is our own inner guilt unconsciously manifested outwards.  Everything that rendezvous' with our window of consciousness was pulled there because of some kind of resonance factor.

Consider this Ra quote about Jesus:

"The entity was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in its last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma."

Jesus forgave his other selves, and he also was forgiven, karmically, as a result.

So the line between total and partial self forgiveness is directly proportional to the totality or partiality of your forgiveness of others.  As within, so without.  As without, so within.  The reflection and the reflectee are not the same, but they will both appear identical in behavior.

[AnthroHeart]

Is forgiving those that torture us something that anyone can do?

How do we remember to forgive, rather than being automatically responsive with judgment?

[Jade]

Is forgiving those that torture us something that anyone can do?

Yes

How do we remember to forgive, rather than being automatically responsive with judgment?

Practice

[YinYang]

This was in connection with the atom bomb:

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is a process of acceptance, forgiveness, and, if possible, restitution. The restitution not being available in time/space, there are many among your peoples now attempting restitution while in the physical.

The restitution bit is sometimes forgotten I think...

[Stranger]

I agree with everything Jade has written. Here's some additional detail.

Point 1. Here is the guidance I was given on crystallizing the third chakra. This is relevant here.

Rules:
1. You are your own worst enemy.
2. You need to become your best friend. Unconditional support to yourself under any circumstances - no matter how deep the hole you fall in, be your own perfect support and cheerleader.
3. Your mistakes are not mistakes at all, but learning experiences. Treat them as such and you will do well.

That is all the rules. Questions?

Doesn't unconditional support to self lead to narcissism and egotism?
No, it does not, Stranger. It leads to healing. When you choose to beat yourself up over a mistake (or an action perceived as such), it produces resentment, sadness, hopelessness, fear, and every other stumbling-block emotion under the Sun. that is the truth. When instead you treat yourself with kindness, supportiveness, forgiveness even - all roads to happiness reopen. Do you understand?

Point 2.
We are One. There is no difference between not forgiving self, and not forgiving another. The idea takes getting used to, but a huge, broader spiritual lesson is that we have no more excuse to treat ourselves badly than we do to treat others badly.

Again, from the point of view of STO, there is no distinction between how we treat self vs. another-self. Harming is harming. Blaming is blaming. Emotional abuse is emotional abuse. Loving-kindness is loving-kindness. We sometimes feel that we have a carte blanche to beat up the part of the Creator that has been entrusted into our special care (our self), but that is not so. All is One.

Point 3.
Once we truly face our past transgression -- connect with it on an emotional level - it can be exceedingly difficult to forgive ourselves. No less difficult than it would be to forgive another. Therefore I disagree with those who say there is honor in not forgiving oneself.

If self-forgiveness feels effortless, then I believe that one is not truly confronting their action. If so, then that is not forgiveness, that's just choosing ignorance, temporarily, until it comes back to bite. Feeling the pain of one's actions and then choosing to forgive can be hard work, regardless of its target.

[Patrick]

...
We are One.  There is no difference between not forgiving self, and not forgiving another.  The idea takes getting used to, but a huge, broader spiritual lesson is that we have no more excuse to treat ourselves badly than we do to treat others badly.  

Again, from the point of view of STO, there is no distinction between how we treat self vs. another-self.  Harming is harming.  Blaming is blaming.  Emotional abuse is emotional abuse.  Loving-kindness is loving-kindness.  We sometimes feel that we have a carte blanche to beat up the part of the Creator that has been entrusted into our special care (our self), but that is not so.  All is One.
...

That is why self-sacrifice (the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or to advance a cause.), if done to your own detriment, is an unbalanced action.  It is compassionate and positively polarizing, but the helping of the One in other-selves while sacrificing the One in your-self results in no real gain to the One.

So like Stranger said, it is the same with forgiveness.

[Stranger]

That is why self-sacrifice (the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or to advance a cause.), if done to your own detriment, is an unbalanced action.

I would qualify that by saying that we are naturally egotistic, predisposed to value our own well-being more than that of others.

Therefore lots of actions that are in fact closer to a self-other balance will feel like sacrifice to us. Learning that kind of "sacrifice" - placing others' interests on a more equal footing with our own - is a core part of the STO vs STS choice.

[Patrick]

Yes and I would say that allowing ourselves to balance this little by little should not really feel like a sacrifice, it should make us feel joy.  Otherwise, maybe we are going a little too fast.  If we can joyfully give up our own interests or wishes in order to help others, then we are not sacrificing anything and the One is more joyful all over.

[Stranger]

Yes and I would say that allowing ourselves to balance this little by little should not really feel like a sacrifice, it should make us feel joy.

I'd say that finding that joy is the challenge. We find it through love. If there is one cookie left and it looks delicious to both of us, it's helpful to find sufficient love for the other-self to let them have it and be happy that they do. We feel that naturally with our kids and romantic partners, but extending it to others is the trick.