6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons?

[Namaste]

Karma is the wheel of forgiveness, which is built from experience of catalyst in 3D. Hence, Wanderers are under the same laws of native 3D entities.

Also, you may have missed this as it was appended to the previous post.

The definition of a Wanderer, written by Carla/LL in 'A Wanderers Handbook'

Wanderers can be called to service by any density, but when they answer a call from third density they must also go through the veil of forgetting so that their service must be rediscovered during the incarnation in order not to infringe upon the free will of the third-density Earth population. Once this occurs, wanderers are Earth natives and must fulfill all the requirements of third-density harvest in order to graduate from this density.

[unity100]

we disagree here. not only that, but the definition and analysis of karma would be a huge topic in itself.

in response, the definition you linked is Carla's definition. we all have our definitions.

[Peregrinus]

Once this occurs, wanderers are Earth natives and must fulfill all the requirements of third-density harvest in order to graduate from this density.

Thank you for this quote Namaste. I was thinking along the same lines of adding such to this discussion.

In regards to the following quote, although Ra does not specifically state that the result of such would result in repeating the cycle, I would suggest that this would be a possibility of such a result.

Ra: ... The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.

In addition, I found this quote (shown below) which unequivocally states that it is possible for the wanderer to have to repeat the cycle after failing the harvest. Yes, possible, but not always the case; this depends on the terms of the agreement which was made prior to the incarnate experience(s) work in 3D.

16.54 Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity.

Of course, this does not change the home density of the wanderer. Harvest simply is a requirement for advancement out of 3rd density, no matter whether the spirit is native or a wanderer. By working in 3D, one may have accepted this as a consequence, hence being said by Ra to be brave and foolhardy.

The second addition I wish to make to this discussion is on use of the green ray when desiring to do the advanced work in the higher rays, and the consequence of blockages in the green ray.

In this following quote, will only quote the one part of this lengthy response by Ra, the part which deals specifically with the green ray.

15.12 Ra: ... The center of heart, or green-ray, is the center from which third-density beings may springboard, shall we say, to infinite intelligence. Blockages in this area may manifest as difficulties in expressing what you may call universal love or compassion.

Indeed Ra spoke clearly of these requirements not generally as love, amore, or anything else, but "universal love and compassion". Not fulfilling these requirements then can be seen as a blockage of the green ray, which indeed will hinder the work in the higher rays.

Finally, brother Unity100, I do indeed agree with you pointing out that any place which falls into dis-accord immediately upon disagreement is not being true to itself. In the truth is no right or wrong. I thank you brother for providing the catalyst whereby you gave me the opportunity to work with my shadow self and therefore advance my work. I do have love, gratitude, and respect for you as my teacher in this matter. It is my hopes that you continue to do this for others here also

[3D Sunset]

....

Hi Unity,

I find your perspective on the lack of need for 3D harvest by 6D wanderers interesting, but far from convincing. I understand that you are in disagreement with some of Ra's teaching, but I would appreciate your comments on this passage (Please forgive the rather length reference, I have included it in or to facilitate further discussion, if need be).

Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

Questioner: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?

Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom, an overabundance of love. These entities looked at those still in darkness and saw that those of a neutral or somewhat negative viewpoint found such harmony, shall we say, sickening. The Wanderers felt that a more wisdom-oriented way of seeking love could be more appealing to those in darkness.

First one entity began its work. Quickly the second found the first. These entities had agreed to serve together and so they did, glorifying the one Creator, but not as they intended. About them were soon gathered those who found it easy to believe that a series of specific knowledges and wisdoms would advance one towards the Creator. The end of this was the graduation into fourth-density negative of the Wanderers, which had much power of personality, and some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively. There was no negative harvest as such.

Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?

Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

Questioner: As a wild guess, one of these entities wouldn’t be the one who has been our companion here for some time would it?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

Questioner: Then from what you say I am guessing that these Wanderers returned or wandered to Ra’s third density possibly to seed greater wisdom in what they saw as an overabundance of compassion in the Ra culture. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra.This is incorrect in the sense that before incarnation it was the desire of these Wanderers only to aid in service to others. The query has correctness when seen from the viewpoint of the Wanderers within that incarnation.

Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever
percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the
compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into-fourth density negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

Questioner: Then did they continue striving to polarize negatively for a fifth-density harvest in the negative sense or did they do something else?

Ra: I am Ra. They worked with the fourth-density negative for some period until, within this framework, the previously learned patterns of the self had been recaptured and the polarity was, with great effort, reversed. There was a great deal of fourth-density positive work then to be retraced.

So we have 5D positive wanderers to 3D Venus, that then polarize negatively and are subsequently harvested in 4D negative.

Assuming that you do not disagree with this story, I do not see how you can hold the notion that upon death, a wanderer returns directly to his home density and that polarization and harvest is not required of wanderers in 3D.

Please enlighten me.

3D Sunset

[unity100]

Assuming that you do not disagree with this story, I do not see how you can hold the notion that upon death, a wanderer returns directly to his home density and that polarization and harvest is not required of wanderers in 3D.

Please enlighten me.

3D Sunset

'the first body to activate after death is indigo ray body, which is the formmaker body' -> from the description of Ra regarding what happens after death, during the study of various bodies in the channelings.

that means, after death, even if the entity is a 3d entity, it first goes into indigo body, formmaker body, to heal and to revive the incarnation. 3d entities here, during this period, probably meet their higher self, and probably hence the various reports of 'seeing god' and talking to god during near death experiences involving various formats.

3d harvest after the veil, if i remember right, is done with a method that checks how close to light can the entity get, and the point it stops determines its situation. what is measured is the ability to radiate, or absorb energy/light. this determines the polarity concept.

positive or negative wanderer, however, is already an entity which absorbs or radiates energy to a certain extent, depending on its existing polarization. it may or may not have opened its chakras during incarnation, however, its spirit, if it remained true to its nature, would already be an indicator of the entity's nature. moreover, imagine a 6d entity, returning to indigo formmaker body after death -> after a period of healing, the entity would be in its nature habitat, the body it is comfortable with, ie, already at home density. any kind of incompatibility/discrepancy with its natural environment would already show.

the difference would occur in polarity switches then, if we take the 5d wanderers' case into question.

these entities went from emanating light, to absorbing light. they switched to the other side of the spectrum. therefore, necessitating a 3d harvest, in order to asses the precise strength and advancedness of the entity for 4d negative.

it is not that a wanderer may not experience a harvest. that may depend on situations, or, preferences. but, there isnt a sizeable meaning in a wanderer experiencing a 3d harvest ; 3d harvest is one that measures polarity.

not only polarity is not enough for graduation from 4d to 5d, for example, but also 4d harvest is a societal complex one. same goes for 6d harvest. we dont have detailed information on 5d and 6d harvests, but since 4d harvest requires different criteria than 3d harvest, (and also 1 and 2d harvests require different criteria too) it is highly possible that any density requires different criteria for harvest :

ra says the octave and its densities were created by intelligent infinity to reflect various facets of existence. therefore, all densities, rays, carry a major nature of existence as it can be manifested in this octave, and therefore each would have different characteristics (and they do have), and naturally, different criteria would be required for passing into any other. there may be similarities in some densities' harvests though.

if we add to this, the fact that 4d and 6d harvests for example, are strictly societal complex ones, that means that for any kind of harvest relevant to their density to happen, the societal complex of the entity should be ready for harvest and going to harvest.

this leaves out all practical benefits of experiencing a 3d harvest for a wanderer.

..............

ali qadir's approach, and the last reason Ra cites for wanderer incarnation comes more rational to me.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

[lightning]

Ra listed a multitude of reasons for why a wanderer wanders, from coming with a specific mission to attempting to balance excessive naivety from having too harmonious 4th density. There are no doubt very many wanderers who have through error been caught up in the total cycle of 75000 years. I used to think this would be a horrible fate until I remembered that some wanderers commit to an entire 3rd density cycle anyway. Aside from that, 75000 years is less than one entire lifetime experienced in 4th density. I believe Ra said that when fully entered, a 4th density lifetime is is 90,000 years. For someone of 5th or 6th density, 75000 years is comparatively only a few days. As I've read the LOO material over many years, I find my perspectives changing on many things about it. Another thing that I realized at some point is that all s/t life beyond 3rd density, meaning 4th density and beyond, is of a nature that we would in 3rd density perceive as non-physical, even if it is s/t or physical. To someone of a religious background, it might be said that the LOO material constitutes sort of an analysis or treatise on what some have called the "spirit worlds" or "life beyond life". That is kind of profound to me if to no one else.
PEACE

[Peregrinus]

75,000 years is but a blink of the eye brother. The positive 4th, 5th and 6th densities are ~75,000,000 years each if harmonious.

[Questioner]

this is not a matter in-general, this is a matter rather specific to pablissimo, and the private discussion we had through pm. it is a continuance of that.

I didn't realize this was a public continuation of a private discussion. Thanks for filling me in on the context. I will reread the thread with that in mind. If my preliminary conclusions misrepresented your point of view, then I apologize.

My impression is that I stumbled into a topic that's been an area of repeated disagreements and I'm sorry if my inquiry hit a raw nerve.

---

To someone of a religious background, it might be said that the LOO material constitutes sort of an analysis or treatise on what some have called the "spirit worlds" or "life beyond life". That is kind of profound to me if to no one else.

I agree with the way you put it. It seems profound to me as well.

[Peregrinus]

Jesus has been mentioned in this thread and it was implied that his death was an unwise choice. I would say that it was a demonstration of extreme humility. I would also suggest that the Lord was very aware of the possibilities and probabilities of the future harvest of this planet, and how the truth that he taught would be corrupted, and he knew that his choice would have the best outcome for the planet's harvest. That is a 3-d graduating to 4-d harvest. He choose to humbly die on the cross because of his love and compassion.

I would like to add a quote from the LOO to clarify this.

17.11 Questioner: What I meant to say was can you tell me if Jesus of Nazareth came from the Confederation before incarnation here?

Ra: I am Ra. The one known to you as Jesus of Nazareth did not have a name. This entity was a member of fourth density of the highest level of that sub-octave. This entity was desirous of entering this planetary sphere in order to share the love vibration in as pure a manner as possible. Thus, this entity received permission to perform this mission. This entity was then a Wanderer of no name, of Confederation origins, of fourth density, representing the fourth-density understanding of the vibration of understanding or love.

73.15 Questioner: The one known as Jesus accumulated twelve disciples. What was his purpose in having these disciples with him?

Ra: I am Ra. What is the purpose of teach/learning if there be no learn/teachers? Those drawn to this entity were accepted by this entity without regard for any outcome. This entity accepted the honor/duty placed upon it by its nature and its sense that to speak was its mission.

[βαθμιαίος]

it may be possible that by just being here, the higher density entities are lightening planetary consciousness.

since, the most important factor in this is time/space, and spirit is the part that exists in time space and influences everything else.

wanderers' spirits will still remain with their true nature, in most of the cases.

moreover, if we remember that it was said to be possible for an entity to be bright and pure in a chakra, but it may never manifest noticeably in physical, space/time, it would add an added meaning to that.

so, there is a possibility that, regardless of wanderers manifest their energy centers in space/time or not, they would still lighten the planetary consciousness.

sometimes i think, maybe it should be that way. maybe, it is rather infringing, barging in to try to meditate and manifest the energy centers more and more.

imagine, you are an entity in 3d, having blockages and issues with various centers. and therein comes an entity walks by you, a number of chakras you have issues with open. you get overloaded in those chakras due to the emanation from the other's. the flowing energy may or may not open your chakras, and even in the case it opens, it maybe an imposing upon your own nature, spirit.

it would be much more eloquent that the interaction would stay at soul level, and the other's spirit would affect yours, and the change happened in that way.

for, spirit is the strongest and most profound part of mind/body/spirit complex.

Interesting thoughts. Ra does say that wanderers lighten the vibration just by being here, but they also speak highly of attempting to teach/learn: "indeed it is the only activity worth doing: to learn/teach or teach/learn. There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve." (1.8)

On Jesus, Ra makes it clear that he did fulfill the mission for which he incarnated:

84.4 Questioner: The instrument asked the following question: Ra has implied that the instrument is on the path of martyrdom, but since we all die are we not all martyred to something, and when, if ever, does martyrdom partake of wisdom?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a thoughtful query. Let us use as exemplar the one known as Jehoshua. This entity incarnated with the plan of martyrdom. There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection. The one known as Jehoshua would have been less than fully understanding of its course had it chosen to follow its will at any space/time during its teachings. Several times, as you call this measure, this entity had the possibility of moving towards the martyr’s place which was, for that martyr, Jerusalem. Yet in meditation this entity stated, time and again, “It is not yet the hour.” The entity could also have, when the hour came, walked another path. Its incarnation would then have been prolonged but the path for which it incarnated somewhat confused. Thusly, one may observe the greatest amount of understanding, of which this entity was indeed capable, taking place as the entity in meditation felt and knew that the hour had come for that to be fulfilled which was its incarnation.

It is indeed so that all mind/body/spirit complexes shall die to the third-density illusion; that is, that each yellow-ray physical-complex body shall cease to be viable. It is a misnomer to, for this reason alone, call each mind/body/spirit complex a martyr, for this term is reserved for those who lay down their lives for the service they may provide to others. We may encourage meditation upon the functions of the will.

[Shemaya]

Thanks B for that quote. I gather from that Ra quote Jesus mission was not to demonstrate wisdom, but to be the perfection of love, understanding and compassion, the pure vibration of 4-d.

My church has a mission statement, "To fearlessly love God and others" I really love the mission statement. I struggle however with the dogma, creed etc.

Having studied the LOO, I am coming to peace about what is happening on earth. Right now as we transition from 3-d to 4-d, it's all about the love!

The LOO has repeated validated my inner calling, especially when I struggled with the teachings i mentioned. The teaching there was to wake up everyone with the Truth. I figured out pretty quickly that knocking someone on the head with a "truth" 2x4 doesn't work very well.

L/L

[Ali Quadir]

Perhaps the "primary reason" means the reason that occurs most often and not the reason that is most important to all wanderers.

it may be possible that by just being here, the higher density entities are lightening planetary consciousness.

since, the most important factor in this is time/space, and spirit is the part that exists in time space and influences everything else.

That would agree with how I understand it to work. It's a kind of alchemy, by putting a reagent in some mixture of chemicals you change the entire mixture, in the case of a catalyst even without changing the reagent you added.

moreover, if we remember that it was said to be possible for an entity to be bright and pure in a chakra, but it may never manifest noticeably in physical, space/time, it would add an added meaning to that.

so, there is a possibility that, regardless of wanderers manifest their energy centers in space/time or not, they would still lighten the planetary consciousness.

I do not believe this effect to be tied into chakras. I had a full energy body checkup at one point in my life, the chakras acted pretty much like you'd expect from a human in my position. Which is normal of course because the chakras are connected to the body. The only oddities were in my aura. And I'm not sure they have to do with the wanderer status.

There are other levels in which we exist. Like you say, perhaps the information exchange is purely spiritual..

imagine, you are an entity in 3d, having blockages and issues with various centers. and therein comes an entity walks by you, a number of chakras you have issues with open. you get overloaded in those chakras due to the emanation from the other's. the flowing energy may or may not open your chakras, and even in the case it opens, it maybe an imposing upon your own nature, spirit.

I don't have to imagine that.. That was my first initiation. My belly chakra was bruised for weeks and my throat chakra was completely shut down for the same period. I literally could not communicate.

But the thing is. Even though this guy did what he did pretty much without discussing it with me first. It was exactly what I needed when I needed it. And I can't believe my higher self was not part of that plan. He told me I was doing the equivalent of walking around with a sign over my head. "Initiate me!"

[ricdaw]

Assuming that you do not disagree with this story, I do not see how you can hold the notion that upon death, a wanderer returns directly to his home density and that polarization and harvest is not required of wanderers in 3D.

Please enlighten me.

3D Sunset

after death, even if the entity is a 3d entity, it first goes into indigo body, formmaker body, to heal and to revive the incarnation. 3d entities here, during this period, probably meet their higher self, and probably hence the various reports of 'seeing god' and talking to god during near death experiences involving various formats.

positive or negative wanderer, however, is already an entity which absorbs or radiates energy to a certain extent, depending on its existing polarization. it may or may not have opened its chakras during incarnation, however, its spirit, if it remained true to its nature, would already be an indicator of the entity's nature. moreover, imagine a 6d entity, returning to indigo formmaker body after death -> after a period of healing, the entity would be in its nature habitat, the body it is comfortable with, ie, already at home density. any kind of incompatibility/discrepancy with its natural environment would already show.

it is not that a wanderer may not experience a harvest. that may depend on situations, or, preferences. but, there isnt a sizeable meaning in a wanderer experiencing a 3d harvest ; 3d harvest is one that measures polarity.

this leaves out all practical benefits of experiencing a 3d harvest for a wanderer.

Sounds risky to me. Since the 5d wanderers in Ra’s example were able to switch polarity at all, it means that, as a practical matter, harvest preceded (preempted) the ordinary post-death cycle. The 5d wanderers did not “after a period of healing” return to their “natural habitat.” Instead, the wanderers got stuck in 4d (and negative 4d at that). Evidently, harvest will evaluate the wanderer “as is” at the time of death, and without any recognition of the entity’s formerly gained status. (To graduate negative, those 5d wanderers had to shut down their heart chakras by the time of death, exactly opposite of their “natural” or “soul” preincarnative states.)

So I would posit that a 4d, 5d or 6d wanderer who did not adequately manifest the choice of STO (51% or greater) while actually living here on Earth, would not be handed a “get out of jail free” card simply because of their prior (higher) dimensional residence. Another way to put it is that in addition to switching polarity, a 4d, 5d or 6d entity risks depolarization and getting stuck in another 75,000 year 3d cycle.

Bummer.

So perhaps there are no practical benefits of experiencing 3d harvest for a wanderer, but there certainly seem to be practical perils.

I do like this quote though:

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

But perhaps the “less than perfect” first time graduation from 3d was barely making the 51% STO? Perhaps, one carries that C+ average in one’s aura up through 4d, 5d and 6d. Perhaps, just maybe, the “recapitulation” is to try for a more robust 60% STO (or higher) score?

Perilous indeed would be the wanderer who, resting on his earlier incarnation laurels, so to speak, came up short at graduation. That means a complete repeat of 3d.

But perhaps even a little more disheartening (no pun intended) would be the wanderer who consciously chooses to go through all of the angst and effort of another Earth-bound lifetime, only to graduate the second time at 51% all over again because they spent all their time working on the throat chakra, or eye chakra and forgot about the heart entirely. What a waste of effort . .

[unity100]

So I would posit that a 4d, 5d or 6d wanderer who did not adequately manifest the choice of STO (51% or greater) while actually living here on Earth, would not be handed a “get out of jail free” card simply because of their prior (higher) dimensional residence. Another way to put it is that in addition to switching polarity, a 4d, 5d or 6d entity risks depolarization and getting stuck in another 75,000 year 3d cycle.

Bummer.

So perhaps there are no practical benefits of experiencing 3d harvest for a wanderer, but there certainly seem to be practical perils.

the below makes any discernment in regard to the situations like the above impossible.

I do like this quote though:

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

But perhaps the “less than perfect” first time graduation from 3d was barely making the 51% STO? Perhaps, one carries that C+ average in one’s aura up through 4d, 5d and 6d. Perhaps, just maybe, the “recapitulation” is to try for a more robust 60% STO (or higher) score?

Perilous indeed would be the wanderer who, resting on his earlier incarnation laurels, so to speak, came up short at graduation. That means a complete repeat of 3d.

But perhaps even a little more disheartening (no pun intended) would be the wanderer who consciously chooses to go through all of the angst and effort of another Earth-bound lifetime, only to graduate the second time at 51% all over again because they spent all their time working on the throat chakra, or eye chakra and forgot about the heart entirely. What a waste of effort . .

what a wanderer lives, ultimately, apparently, will be arranged according to its needs, by its 'higher self', aka, its mind/body/spirit totality and its societal' complex's mind/body/spirit totality complex.

however than again that would still eliminate the invented ground rule for higher density entities incarnating for getting harvested, again.

.......

the mere definition of wanderer doesnt have anything to do with a harvest in the first place. they are brother and sisters of sorrow, going to where their help is needed. there is no 'harvest' in that definition we have been given.

[ricdaw]

what a wanderer lives, ultimately, apparently, will be arranged according to its needs, by its 'higher self', aka, its mind/body/spirit totality and its societal' complex's mind/body/spirit totality complex.

however than again that would still eliminate the invented ground rule for higher density entities incarnating for getting harvested, again.

.......

the mere definition of wanderer doesn’t have anything to do with a harvest in the first place. they are brother and sisters of sorrow, going to where their help is needed. there is no 'harvest' in that definition we have been given.

I see your point. But it looks like there is still some peril for Wanderers:

Ra: As we have said before, Wanderers become completely the creature of third density in mind/body complex. There is just as much chance of such influence to a Wanderer entity as to a mind/body/spirit complex of this planetary sphere. The only difference occurs in the spirit complex which, if it wishes, has an armor of light, if you will, which enables it to recognize more clearly that which is not as it would appropriately be desired by the mind/body/spirit complex. This is not more than bias and cannot be called an understanding.

Ra: The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.
Book 1, page 136

Questioner: Then would the Wanderers, as they incarnate here, be high priority targets of the Orion group?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
Questioner: If a Wanderer should be successfully infringed upon, shall I say, by the Orion group, what would happen to this Wanderer when harvest came?
Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity.
Book 1, page 166.

So Ra says that Wanderer are harvested, whether there is a need or not.

On the other hand, if harvest were not involved, it does appear that the Wanderer goes home after 3d death (as you believe Unity):

If a Wanderer of fourth, fifth, or sixth-density dies from this third-density state in which we presently find ourselves, does he then find himself in the third density time/space after death?
Ra: I am Ra. This will depend upon the plan which has been approved by the Council of Nine. Some Wanderers offer themselves for but one incarnation while others offer themselves for varying lengths of your time up to and including the last two cycles of 25,000 years. If the agreed-upon mission is completed the Wanderer’s mind/body/spirit complex will go to the home vibration.
Book 3, page 189.

Apparently, wandering may only be perilous when the incarnation is done at the time of harvest, because it appears to interrupt the normal post death cycle:

RA: . . . . Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.
Book 2, page 113

Fascinating stuff.

[unity100]

So Ra says that Wanderer are harvested, whether there is a need or not.

On the other hand, if harvest were not involved, it does appear that the Wanderer goes home after 3d death (as you believe Unity):

you are missing a fine detail :

Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested

if a wanderer gets caught up in the planetary vibration, through negative orientation action towards other selves, it would have first nullified its vibrations, (polarity) and polarized negatively. or not polarized at all.

if the wanderer polarized negatively (as in the case with those two), then, this would mean that the entities would have nullified their polarity at a certain point, and became 3d vibration entities in core, and then polarized negatively. much akin to any normal entity polarizing.

if the entity havent polarized negatively, but just lessened its vibrations, you would have a 3d vibrating entity in your hands in the end.

both situations practically put the entity as a 3d entity that is polarizing negatively or not polarizing. basically, a situation for a harvest.

if the entity havent changed its core vibrations, it would have remained as it is.

[ricdaw]

So Ra says that Wanderer are harvested, whether there is a need or not.

On the other hand, if harvest were not involved, it does appear that the Wanderer goes home after 3d death (as you believe Unity):

you are missing a fine detail :

Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested

if a wanderer gets caught up in the planetary vibration, through negative orientation action towards other selves, it would have first nullified its vibrations, (polarity) and polarized negatively. or not polarized at all.

if the wanderer polarized negatively (as in the case with those two), then, this would mean that the entities would have nullified their polarity at a certain point, and became 3d vibration entities in core, and then polarized negatively. much akin to any normal entity polarizing.

if the entity havent polarized negatively, but just lessened its vibrations, you would have a 3d vibrating entity in your hands in the end.

both situations practically put the entity as a 3d entity that is polarizing negatively or not polarizing. basically, a situation for a harvest.

if the entity havent changed its core vibrations, it would have remained as it is.

I agree, Unity. I guess my point is that harvest is the way polarity/vibration is measured. So, a wanderer still goes thru harvest (the measurement process) to see whether/if the wanderer “hasn’t changed its core vibrations” or has changed them.

If still-positive polarized wanderers gets to skip harvest at death, it would mean that there is an extra-special harvest just for them. First, a “preview” harvest to see if the wanderer has changed vibration, if not then back to the home vibration. If so, send the wanderer to “regular” harvest for an assessment. Seems a bit illogical.

Just guessing, but I think the Guardians would simply measure everyone at harvest (including Wanderers) and let the chips fall where they may.

[Quantum]

So Ra says that Wanderer are harvested, whether there is a need or not.

On the other hand, if harvest were not involved, it does appear that the Wanderer goes home after 3d death (as you believe Unity):

you are missing a fine detail :
[quote=Ra:] I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity.

The quote was incomplete above. See bolded text. Clearly there is a harvest, whether for better or for worse, as you suggest ricdaw as a measuring process, less there would be no harvest. See further below quotes to verify same.

I agree, Unity. I guess my point is that harvest is the way polarity/vibration is measured. So, a wanderer still goes thru harvest (the measurement process) to see whether/if the wanderer “hasn’t changed its core vibrations” or has changed them.

If still-positive polarized wanderers gets to skip harvest at death, it would mean that there is an extra-special harvest just for them. First, a “preview” harvest to see if the wanderer has changed vibration, if not then back to the home vibration. If so, send the wanderer to “regular” harvest for an assessment. Seems a bit illogical.

Just guessing, but I think the Guardians would simply measure everyone at harvest (including Wanderers) and let the chips fall where they may.

It seems there may be a misunderstanding of when harvests take place, as much as perhaps a truer definition of what a harvest is.

: How did Taras Bulba, Genghis Khan, and Rasputin get harvested prior to the harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. It is the right/privilege/duty of those opening consciously the gate to intelligent infinity to choose the manner of their leaving of third density. Those of negative orientation who so achieve this right/duty most often choose to move forward in their learn/teaching of service to self.

The implication herein is that those of STO orientation who could harvest "now", elect instead to remain to serve, though they could in fact move forward prior to the grand harvest. Thus, harvest is harvest, whether in this moment, or the next. Although unknown, it seems likely that some STO oriented entities at some point in the history of 3D may have elected to move forward as well for whatever reasons. Harvest is simply making the grade, as it were, whether earlier or later, as opposed to restricting it to a special time frame per se, notwithstanding that the grand harvest occurs every 25,000 years, whether successful or not.

: Going back to when we started this 75,000 year period, there was a harvest 25,000 years after the start which would make it 50,000 years ago. Can you tell me how many were harvested at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. The harvest was none.

Questioner: There was no harvest? What about 25,000 years ago?

Ra: I am Ra. A harvesting began taking place in the latter portion, as you measure time/space, of the second cycle, with individuals finding the gateway to intelligent infinity. The harvest of that time, though extremely small, was those entities of extreme distortion towards service to the entities who were now to repeat the major cycle. These entities, therefore, remained in third density although they could, at any moment/present nexus, leave this density through use of intelligent infinity.

Questioner: Then in the harvest 25,000 years ago, the entities who could have been harvested into the fourth density chose to remain here in service to this planetary population. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Thus, there was no harvest, but there were harvestable entities who shall choose the manner of their entrance into fourth dimension.

It stands to reason that if a 6D entity were to become entrapped into 3D and therefore become un-harvestable as result, that they to the converse are certainly harvested/harvetsable if they have not become entrapped into 3D. 6D harvests, as a measure, etc. Harvest moreover is not done "to one", as though a pass or a failure, but is in fact in a sense carried out "by one" as an act of choice by each entity upon harvest. Here then is the true definition of Harvest below:

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

Where unity is correct is that they of 6D may elect to return to their home density of 6D, unless of course they choose to go to another 3D planet after this one goes 4D for the same reasons of answering yet another call which for all we know has a harvest coming up within one to several lifetimes. Who may know these answers. They are offered merely to titillate more than to answer. Where it seems unity is incorrect and states otherwise, is that 6D does indeed Harvest, as it must, and in fact elects so by its own free will and volition, by the measure of its own light. "The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops." This is Harvest = Light. If the Wanderer has lost in polarity = light, it elects by choice to stop at the light level it is at, and not to harvest. Barring that which is beyond polarity, it would seem all entities through their evolutionary process are consistently and infinitely Harvesting from the beginning to the end, regardless of present density or past density, or as Wanderers. It may thus be said that the 6D Wanderer has chosen the peril to re-harvest now, or to fail in the harvest of now, only to alas re-harvest later.

~ Q ~

[unity100]

still missing the fact that, an entity that lowers its polarity and vibration to 3d for any reason, becomes a 3d entity. and therefore, harvest logic and rules would have to apply for it. all the quotes shown for there being a harvest for wanderers too, come after where Ra said 'If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and'.

this bit, makes whether there is a harvest for wanderers or not, impossible to discern, for, both of them are tied to each other in that answer.

logic is, there wouldnt be any 3d harvest for a higher density entity who didnt lose its polarity and meld with planetary population.

since, upon death of the individual, the 'body' from the mind/body/spirit complex will be gone, along with all the conditionings and biases of the planetary society.

if, we consider the significator as mind/body/spirit complex, then since the significator is probably using the mind archetype of this logos it has come wandering to, but, it has a (probably slightly) different archetype back in its own logos, and the body can change, what is the unchanging thing that determines the nature of the significator ?

remains only spirit. that means, the true identifier of an entity is spirit. so that means, unless the entity did not lose its spiritual characteristics, its polarity, its vibration, and the spiritual biases/experience it learned and accumulated, it wont become a 3d entity and meld with planetary population. and upon death, by changing of body, and switching the archetypal mind to its own logos, it will be again an entity of the logos it came from, with its spirit in its core vibration.

[Quantum]

still missing the fact that, an entity that lowers its polarity and vibration to 3d for any reason, becomes a 3d entity. and therefore, harvest logic and rules would have to apply for it. all the quotes shown for there being a harvest for wanderers too, come after where Ra said 'If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and'.

Please read Section 89 beginning with 89.31: After reading, how would one then explain that these entities of Venus (see below) who were STO Wanderers from 5D were not only not entrapped into a negative 3D planet as a result of inadvertently switching their polarities unbeknownst to themselves while in 3D, but were indeed harvested into the next higher vibration of 4D? The answer seems clear enough. They were Harvested. A Harvest took place wherein they met the light at the level they were at, which was not of the same plane they wandered into at 3D, but was into the next higher plane of 4D, albeit negative.

Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization upon such a positively polarized planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

89.32 Questioner: Did these two entities evolve from the second density of the planet Venus along with the rest of the population of Venus that became Ra from second density to third?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.33 Questioner: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

89.34 Questioner: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

89.35 Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?

Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom, an overabundance of love. These entities looked at those still in darkness and saw that those of a neutral or somewhat negative viewpoint found such harmony, shall we say, sickening. The Wanderers felt that a more wisdom-oriented way of seeking love could be more appealing to those in darkness.

First one entity began its work. Quickly the second found the first. These entities had agreed to serve together and so they did, glorifying the One Creator, but not as they intended. About them were soon gathered those who found it easy to believe that a series of specific knowledges and wisdoms would advance one towards the Creator. The end of this was the graduation into fourth-density negative of the Wanderers, which had much power of personality, and some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively. There was no negative harvest as such.

89.36 Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?

Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

89.37 Questioner: As a wild guess, one of these entities wouldn’t be the one who has been our companion here for some time would it?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.38 Questioner: Then from what you say I am guessing that these Wanderers returned or wandered to Ra’s third density possibly to seed greater wisdom in what they saw as an overabundance of compassion in the Ra culture. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect in the sense that before incarnation it was the desire of these Wanderers only to aid in service to others. The query has correctness when seen from the viewpoint of the Wanderers within that incarnation.

89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

89.40 Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into-fourth density negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

89.41 Questioner: Then did they continue striving to polarize negatively for a fifth-density harvest in the negative sense or did they do something else?

Ra: I am Ra. They worked with the fourth-density negative for some period until, within this framework, the previously learned patterns of the self had been recaptured and the polarity was, with great effort, reversed. There was a great deal of fourth-density positive work then to be retraced.

Does this in any manner cause you to rethink that wanderers do not undergo harvesting, given these wanderers were not trapped into the plane of 3D which they entered into, but did indeed graduate by virtue of harvesting into the next higher plane of 4D? Presumably had they depolarized slightly, but remained STO, they may have graduated into 4D positive, rather than remain at 3D, while certainly also not being able to return to 5D positive. They Harvested from 3D to 4D.

Ra clearly agreed with the term here that they graduated, i.e. were harvested.

Questioner:What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into-fourth density negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.


Wanderers are harvested by this quote, just as are all entities on any level, regardless of their status.

~ Q ~

[unity100]

the wanderers you speak of, have changed their polarity and became negative. they have gone all the way back to 3d vibration, and into negative. when they became 'native' 3d entities with their polarity reduction, they already have necessitated a harvest, because, in Ra's terms, they have melded with planetary vibrations.

ie, they have gone back, in the densities.

they are the only examples we know of as such, not to mention that the 'harvest' business for wanderers only comes up, and ends with their example. nowhere in Ra material harvest necessity for wanderers are being discussed.

actually, telling these entities wanderers is a bit off place. since, they have probably gone astray from their mission, intent, and even polarity, when they incarnated as wanderers.

[Quantum]

the wanderers you speak of, have changed their polarity and became negative. they have gone all the way back to 3d vibration, and into negative. when they became 'native' 3d entities with their polarity reduction, they already have necessitated a harvest, because, in Ra's terms, they have melded with planetary vibrations.

ie, they have gone back, in the densities.

they are the only examples we know of as such, not to mention that the 'harvest' business for wanderers only comes up, and ends with their example. nowhere in Ra material harvest necessity for wanderers are being discussed.

actually, telling these entities wanderers is a bit off place. since, they have probably gone astray from their mission, intent, and even polarity, when they incarnated as wanderers.

I see. And given I assumed you would have an answer readily available, I availed myself to the task of suggesting in my above post the scenario first, as a thought experiment, by taking these two wanderers out of a negative harvest, and rather hypothetically place them into a positive harvest instead, by suggesting that presumably had these 5D STO positive Wanderers depolarized slightly, but remained STO, they may have instead graduated into 4D positive, rather than remain at 3D. In this case being negative would have nothing to do with your response if they graduated positive. They would have Harvested from 3D positive to 4D positive. As always, I remain as curious to your responses.

actually, telling these entities wanderers is a bit off place

It is as interesting to note that you are assisting Ra, as well as all of us here at B4th, for which I'm sure there might be some who surely thank you and support you, for clearing up any confusion that the Ra SMC may have created, this by making it clearer that their naming these two as STO Wanderers from 5D might have been an error on their part.

[unity100]

I see. And given I assumed you would have an answer readily available, I availed myself to the task of suggesting in my above post the scenario first, as a thought experiment, by taking these two wanderers out of a negative harvest, and rather hypothetically place them into a positive harvest instead, by suggesting that presumably had these 5D STO positive Wanderers depolarized slightly, but remained STO, they may have instead graduated into 4D positive, rather than remain at 3D. In this case being negative would have nothing to do with your response if they graduated positive. They would have Harvested from 3D positive to 4D positive. As always, I remain as curious to your responses.

a hypothetical situation, is hypothetical.

as we know from Ra, there is one 3d harvest, negative and positive entities are harvested in the same manner and fashion. their polarity defines their orientation.

as for hypothetical analysis, i already have posted my view on this, just a few posts above. when a wanderer which havent changed its polarity dies, it would still maintain the polarity and vibration of its own natural density.

the key is not being negative or positive, it is having changed polarity, nullified their polarity and then increased it in the other direction.

similarly, it can be said that if a negative wanderer nullified its polarity, and then went positive, they would probably also get harvested and subject to harvest.

actually, telling these entities wanderers is a bit off place

It is as interesting to note that you are assisting Ra, as well as all of us here at B4th, for which I'm sure there might be some who surely thank you and support you, for clearing up any confusion that the Ra Social Memory Complex may have created, this by making it clearer that their naming these two as STO Wanderers from 5D might have been an error on their part.

i sense veiled sarcasm in the above block ....

can you call an entity which gone negative in polarity to the extent of being negatively harvestable, a STO wanderer from 5d ? the term 'STO' there, would be a bit off place, wouldnt it.

[Quantum]

as for hypothetical analysis, i already have posted my view on this, just a few posts above. when a wanderer which havent changed its polarity dies, it would still maintain the polarity and vibration of its own natural density.

Your changing the hypothetical question, as well as the channeled reading of the two 5D STO wanderers by answering a different question, and with an answer which by logic and the Ra quotes must be incorrect no less. It makes no sense. Will you allow me to show you why?

But back to the thought experiment question as a teaser to prelude first: in this hypothetical thought experiment, what happens to our two 5D STO Wanderers who Wander into 3D, and who although haven't changed their positive polarity at deaths door, have nonetheless accidentally reduced it? But they didn't reduce it enough to remain stuck in 3D. Rather than our two friends who accidentally went negative and therefore graduate into 4D negative, these two graduate positive and do so by ending up in 4D positive. How did they get from 3D to 4D other than by Harvesting? Did they just defy the process and will themselves there? If the truth is the truth in pattern, the question is not just a hypothetical. It would operate under the same principle. The LOO texts are easily able to answer this through the harvest answer. This is a prelude and foundation to what must be the truer answer imho as you will see.

the key is not being negative or positive, it is having changed polarity, nullified their polarity and then increased it in the other direction.

But this is not the question. The question is what would happen in the same case but without going in the other direction. How would they get to 4D positive from 3D positive but through harvesting?

similarly, it can be said that if a negative wanderer nullified its polarity, and then went positive, they would probably also get harvested and subject to harvest.

OK. Now I'm confused? And we agree no less. They do get harvested? Good. So, it seems we've taken care of that little confusion then. That's progress. Discourse is good. Now we're presumably only left with two special conundrums of (1) Wanderers on death return to their home density, but do so by not getting harvested, and (2) the new conundrum that has suddenly surfaced that wanderers from 5D, and if who screw up, are not wanderers by your statement, but if they don't screw up, are? This little jump in logic presumably also holds true for 6D as well, i.e. if they screw up they weren't really wanderers either, in spite of the fact that Ra said they were. Who are we to believe in both cases? Am I clear so far?

And here is the crux demonstrated once more upon which the axis of your logic turns: Lets see if we may run it through the filter to see what shakes out. Ra seeks harvest from sixth density to seventh, but 6D wanderers do not get re-harvested in order to return to home density, but seemingly just return home nonetheless without the need to settle into the light most suitable for them, which is the definition of harvest. Lets break it down into sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub, ad nauseum, densities of 6th home density from which the wanderer in question came from. Surely if said wanderer de-polaorized, even in infinitesimal factions thereof, it would need to find its new sub-density to the billionth fraction of the new sub-density in order to return to 6D. How do you propose our friend the wanderer accomplishes this but through a harvest of stopping at its most suitable light but through a harvest?

And to the converse, if:

52.9: The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst

How do you propose that the 6D wanderer in question finds its newer home density "in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst," which was in fact one of its primary purposes for having wandered into 3D to begin with, if it does not undergo the same harvest process to the new etiolated density it sought to achieve?

I remain confused unity. I rather assumed the 6D wander wandered for a purpose, which most certainly was not to return to its home density, but to polarize to a newer and higher etiolated density? In short, you insist that when a wanderer dies which hasn't changed its polarity, that it will return to its home density. One would hope that the 6D wanderer would never return to its home density. It runs the risk of always depolarizing a wee bit to a great deal, or hopefully better yet increasing its polarity a wee bit to a great deal more, but almost certainly never returning to where it originated from, thus necessitating a HARVEST to get to its newer density, whether greater or lessor.

actually, telling these entities wanderers is a bit off place

It is as interesting to note that you are assisting Ra, as well as all of us here at B4th, for which I'm sure there might be some who surely thank you and support you, for clearing up any confusion that the Ra Social Memory Complex may have created, this by making it clearer that their naming these two as STO Wanderers from 5D might have been an error on their part.

i sense veiled sarcasm in the above block ....

o-o-o-o-p-s-a-la. I guess ya got me there . Please allow a bit of brevity and humor into the discussion.

can you call an entity which gone negative in polarity to the extent of being negatively harvestable, a STO wanderer from 5d ? the term 'STO' there, would be a bit off place, wouldnt it.

I don't have to. Ra did. I'll confess that I make it a habit to study the LOO unity. How can I or you study it if we refute it first? It makes for rather bad study habits. May I suggest that we study it far better before becoming so invested into ourselves that we assume to know better than Ra? This has in fact been the entire crux of my subtle attempts towards establishing dialogs with you unity. You have seemingly by impression creatively reinterpreted, if not refuted, as demonstrated herein above, as well as on other occasions more than a few sentiments of the LOO. Perhaps one day in above mid 6th Density at a minimum higher than Ra, either of us would be in a better position to consider same. I'll take my chances on the LOO for the moment then as opposed to employing either of our feeble minds to answer your question, at which point I hope your question would be moot, for Ra having been correct.

May we close the conversation as it seems there is little more to add to or to dispute given the logic of the Ra quotes that 6D wanders must harvest to go higher, much less lower, and that their purpose was/is to never return from exactly where they came from? Let us retreat then to return to the Infinity discussion where we may continue there for only a bit more as well as it too is also fast drawing to a close.

You are serving much and offering much to all of us for the fascinating views you express. It sharpens the pencil, if you will.

...L/L...

~ Q ~

[unity100]

Your changing the hypothetical question, as well as the channeled reading of the two 5D STO wanderers by answering a different question, and with an answer which by logic and the Ra quotes must be incorrect no less. It makes no sense. Will you allow me to show you why?

this doesnt change anything in channeled material. neither it does answer a different question.

But back to the thought experiment question as a teaser to prelude first: in this hypothetical thought experiment, what happens to our two 5D STO Wanderers who Wander into 3D, and who although haven't changed their positive polarity at deaths door, have nonetheless accidentally reduced it? But they didn't reduce it enough to remain stuck in 3D. Rather than our two friends who accidentally went negative and therefore graduate into 4D negative, these two graduate positive and do so by ending up in 4D positive. How did they get from 3D to 4D other than by Harvesting? Did they just defy the process and will themselves there? If the truth is the truth in pattern, the question is not just a hypothetical. It would operate under the same principle. The LOO texts are easily able to answer this through the harvest answer. This is a prelude and foundation to what must be the truer answer imho as you will see.

that we cannot exactly know.

however, if 6d entities are taken as examples, when they die, they will go to their formmaker body, which is 6d astral body, and be in their natural habitat. their spiritual biases would become evident.

with your logic, every kind of polarity reduction in the significator would require a harvest.

that includes any kind of extraterrestrial/alien activity, in which entities lower their frequency to 3d levels, or 4d levels, or any other kind of low vibration, and accidentally lose any polarity.

But this is not the question. The question is what would happen in the same case but without going in the other direction. How would they get to 4D positive from 3D positive but through harvesting?

we do not know this, we can only speculate.

Discourse is good. Now we're presumably only left with two special conundrums of (1) Wanderers on death return to their home density, but do so by not getting harvested, and (2) the new conundrum that has suddenly surfaced that wanderers from 5D, and if who screw up, are not wanderers by your statement, but if they don't screw up, are? This little jump in logic presumably also holds true for 6D as well, i.e. if they screw up they weren't really wanderers either, in spite of the fact that Ra said they were. Who are we to believe in both cases? Am I clear so far?

And here is the crux demonstrated once more upon which the axis of your logic turns: Lets see if we may run it through the filter to see what shakes out. Ra seeks harvest from sixth density to seventh, but 6D wanderers do not get re-harvested in order to return to home density, but seemingly just return home nonetheless without the need to settle into the light most suitable for them, which is the definition of harvest. Lets break it down into sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub, ad nauseum, densities of 6th home density from which the wanderer in question came from. Surely if said wanderer de-polaorized, even in infinitesimal factions thereof, it would need to find its new sub-density to the billionth fraction of the new sub-density in order to return to 6D. How do you propose our friend the wanderer accomplishes this but through a harvest of stopping at its most suitable light but through a harvest?

you are missing a lot of important details from Ra material, and therefore the above approach comes up irrelevant.

there is no direct link in between polarization, and 'harvest'. each density has their own standards for harvest. polarization is a standard of 3d harvest.

polarization is not a required standard for graduating from any density but, 3rd. 4d graduation doesnt happen by polarity, regardless of how extremely entities are polarized. similarly, 5d density graduation also doesnt require polarization.

core vibrations matter outside 3rd density. so, if an entity's core, spiritual vibrations are of 5d, regardless of s/he is less polarized or not, as long as it keeps its own spiritual nature, it will be a 5d entity.

moreover, you can NOT harvest 4d entities individually. 4d harvest is a society complex harvest. so is 6d harvest. therefore, you cannot subject any higher density entity into a harvest, alone, after 3d incarnation. because, you would have to subject entire society complex it belongs to, to the harvest.

exception may be 5d, since 5d entities may continue as societal complexes or individuals. however, polarity is still not a criteria for 5d graduation.

that takes away any kind of harvest concept for wanderers which have not changed in their core, spiritual biases and vibrations.

polarization is a requirement that came into being for 3d harvests after the usage of veil, and in the logoi that employ the veil.

How do you propose that the 6D wanderer in question finds its newer home density "in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst," which was in fact one of its primary purposes for having wandered into 3D to begin with, if it does not undergo the same harvest process to the new etiolated density it sought to achieve?

I remain confused unity. I rather assumed the 6D wander wandered for a purpose, which most certainly was not to return to its home density, but to polarize to a newer and higher etiolated density? In short, you insist that when a wanderer dies which hasn't changed its polarity, that it will return to its home density. One would hope that the 6D wanderer would never return to its home density. It runs the risk of always depolarizing a wee bit to a great deal, or hopefully better yet increasing its polarity a wee bit to a great deal more, but almost certainly never returning to where it originated from, thus necessitating a HARVEST to get to its newer density, whether greater or lessor.

you remain confused, because you are forgetting important bits of information from the material.

polarization, is the potential to do work. it is desirable in that, it would allow the entity to do more work.

polarization, however, is not relevant to entity's density. you can be 95% polarized, or 99% polarized while graduating from 4d, as a society complex. yet, you may not be able to graduate with 99% polarization, if your society complex is not ready to start understanding the 'dance', and walk the path of wisdom. ie 'the ability to accept and use the light'.

at which point I hope your question would be moot, for Ra having been correct.

the entities who incarnated from 5d as sto wanderers, were originally wanderers. it is understandable and normal to identify them as such for the sake of conversation. yet, when they melded their vibrations and spirits with the planet they have incarnated into, they became 3d entities like of that planet. when they negatively polarized to 4d, you cannot call them STO wanderers anymore. refuting is not needed, it doesnt require too much effort to understand that when someone goes sts, s/he is not sto anymore, and cannot be called a STO wanderer at that point.

then these entities went on to a negative harvest, and became 4d negative entities.

can one call them 5d sto wanderers at this point ? they are in 4d, they are sts. you cannot.

then these entities have changed polarity again, and joined Ra in positive 4d. now, are these entities 5d sto wanderers ? no. because 'wandering' concept is not found in 4d, since there is no veil and forgetting, they are not wanderers anymore. they are 4d entities at that point.

i dont think this even needs being debated.

[Quantum]

OK....really honestly truly for real, we have to quite meeting like this. This has to be our last date on this matter. Out of respect to our relationship however, I will take your call one last time on the subject and try. Its time for me to start seeing other people though. Having the last word changes nothing with respect to my decision....or the material <------that's me adding brevity again.

Your changing the hypothetical question, as well as the channeled reading of the two 5D STO wanderers by answering a different question, and with an answer which by logic and the Ra quotes must be incorrect no less. It makes no sense. Will you allow me to show you why?

this doesnt change anything in channeled material. neither it does answer a different question.

Your answers do change the channeled material unity, very very much, and they most certainly do so quite profoundly. Its not the first time. You are benefiting all of us here at B4th by being so kind as to make corrections for Ra as well as the LOO Material by suggesting that the 5D wanders who wandered, who Ra said wandered, were not wanderers. It is glarringly obvious that this changes the material. Who are we to believe? Were I to point out each such statement you have made in various posts of the past, I would be accused of offering a summation of your views. This single one here is enough to suffice as a mirror for the moment.

But back to the thought experiment question as a teaser to prelude first: in this hypothetical thought experiment, what happens to our two 5D STO Wanderers who Wander into 3D, and who although haven't changed their positive polarity at deaths door, have nonetheless accidentally reduced it? But they didn't reduce it enough to remain stuck in 3D. Rather than our two friends who accidentally went negative and therefore graduate into 4D negative, these two graduate positive and do so by ending up in 4D positive. How did they get from 3D to 4D other than by Harvesting? Did they just defy the process and will themselves there? If the truth is the truth in pattern, the question is not just a hypothetical. It would operate under the same principle. The LOO texts are easily able to answer this through the harvest answer. This is a prelude and foundation to what must be the truer answer imho as you will see.

that we cannot exactly know.

The pattern is the same for graduation and polarization irrespective of negative or positive, this as given by Ra. It seems reasonable to conclude that we can know. It certainly seems more reasonable to utilize verbatim the Ra material as a means of knowing, more than what you propose by changing it to know.

however, if 6d entities are taken as examples, when they die, they will go to their formmaker body, which is 6d astral body, and be in their natural habitat. their spiritual biases would become evident.

Again, you are changing the point. What was proposed by you is that 6D returns to 6D WITHOUT HARVEST. Lets keep our eye on the ball. This is what is being discussed. Nothing else. I offered as an explanation directly out of the texts that this assumption must be incorrect. I offered same by way of the Ra quote. The quote was:

52.9: The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

My response was:

How do you propose that the 6D wanderer in question finds its newer home density "in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst," which was in fact one of its primary purposes for having wandered into 3D to begin with, if it does not undergo the same HARVEST process to the new etiolated density it sought to achieve?

(edited below in bold):
I remain confused unity. I rather assumed the 6D wander wandered for a purpose, which most certainly was not to return to its exact home density, but in fact to HARVEST to a newer and higher etiolated density? In short, you insist that when a wanderer dies which hasn't changed its sto polarity, that it will return to its exact home density. One would hope that the 6D wanderer will never return to its exact home density, from which it wandered from given its primary purpose was to POLARIZE TO HIGHER ETIOLATED DENSITIES. thus necessitating a HARVEST to increase to a higher, if not sadly to a lower density. It runs the risk of always depolarizing a wee bit, to a great deal, or hopefully better yet increasing its HARVEST capacity a wee bit to a great deal more,such that it may even go to 7D, any of which would require a HARVEST, and almost certainly never returning to exactly where it originated from, thus necessitating a HARVEST to get to its newer density, whether greater or lessor.

with your logic, every kind of polarity reduction in the significator would require a harvest.
that includes any kind of extraterrestrial/alien activity, in which entities lower their frequency to 3d levels, or 4d levels, or any other kind of low vibration, and accidentally lose any polarity

YEP. Thatsa a whata I beena tryin to say...this based entirely on the Material versus your speculation to the contrary, and this so for any entity in question which necessitates its requirement to find its new signature of light vibration which almost certainly has risen, less sadly it has failed by decreasing, both which require a HARVEST. This definition is the definition of HARVEST = seeking its unique signature of light. This may bar your dilemma as regards any need for polarization wherein your confusion lies.

you are missing a lot of important details from Ra material, and therefore the above approach comes up irrelevant.
there is no direct link in between polarization, and 'harvest'. each density has their own standards for harvest. polarization is a standard of 3d harvest.
polarization is not a required standard for graduating from any density but, 3rd. 4d graduation doesnt happen by polarity, regardless of how extremely entities are polarized. similarly, 5d density graduation also doesnt require polarization.

Loose the word polarization. Its standing in your way. An entity seeking its correspondent signature of light may be seen more clearly as a definition of HARVEST. Polarizations are not Harvests, albeit polarization encompasses same in 3D.

moreover, you can NOT harvest 4d entities individually. 4d harvest is a society complex harvest. so is 6d harvest. therefore, you cannot subject any higher density entity into a harvest, alone, after 3d incarnation. because, you would have to subject entire society complex it belongs to, to the harvest.

Your good. Your very good. <----This is me being sincere :idea: This is where I salute you as regards your ability to stretch concepts within the material, but only if you stay within the material. Credit where credit is due. This might be a wonderful separate thread to consider.
1. If a wanderer is of a SMC, how then does a single unit of a said SMC break away by individuating itself to come as a single soul of one in a single body within 3D. My guess is it seeks the Council's permission.
2. If it is able to seeks council's permission to wander as a single unit, may that single unit also then as a single unit surpass its previous SMC to join a higher SMC. It seems the answer is as self evident given the Ra quote that states wanderers wander to increase their polarity to achieve higher etiolated densities.
Guess we might not have to create the thread after all?

exception may be 5d, since 5d entities may continue as societal complexes or individuals. however, polarity is still not a criteria for 5d graduation.

Presumably Wanders seek polarity in 3D to increase their opportunities in seeking higher etiolated densities. Presumably in the higher densities where polarity is either non-existent or weak, it takes far longer to Harvest as a result. Thus 3D is a wonderful opportunity, if not in fact the only game in town, for these overachievers in higher density who have the character and makeup of gamblers and investors who are willing to play for higher stakes in the card game, i.e. win or loose, step right up, take your chances on lucky number 3 ladies and gentlemen.

the entities who incarnated from 5d as sto wanderers, were originally wanderers.

I'm confused again. Now they are Wanderers. You stated implicitly they weren't. Your position is wandering

it is understandable and normal to identify them as such for the sake of conversation.

So Ra is communicating to us for conversation sakes? Do I sense me attempting to bring levity into the dialog once more through factitiousness?

yet, when they melded their vibrations and spirits with the planet they have incarnated into, they became 3d entities like of that planet. when they negatively polarized to 4d, you cannot call them STO wanderers anymore. refuting is not needed, it doesnt require too much effort to understand that when someone goes sts, s/he is not sto anymore, and cannot be called a STO wanderer at that point.

We return to the LOu (law of unity) versus the LOO. Certainly it is self evident that STS is not STO anymore, and that neither is black white (less we speak of either STS being STO or black being white as regards your definition of INFINITY....o-o-o-p-s...that's another thread.) You have changed the game once again. We are not discussing STO vs STS. We are discussing 6D Wanderering requirements of HARVEST. Had the 5D STO wanderers in question polarized so much that they effectively made it higher to STS lower 6D, they would have needed to seek their signature light in any event, meaning they would have needed to HARVEST to do so. They then would simply have been called STO wanderes nonetheless who wandered into 3D who graduated through HARVEST into low 6D STS. Nothing has changed.
Once I was an American. I wandered to Germany. I became amnesiac as a result of the water. I melded into the culture, walked like a German, spoke like a German, ate like a German, even earned wages like a German, etc. I insisted I was German. The American Counselate, the IRS, and my family insisted otherwise. I am still American. Likewise the wanderer needs only to remember...and puff... he may return to a higher or lower density through the process of establishing its signature of light through HARVEST to return either to a higher or lower etiolated density. They're still American...I mean wanderers, versus the failed wanderers they were for having gone 4D negative as a result of having hailed from 5D STO.

BTW unity: May I ask, if it is not too intrusive, if English is your original language? I know more than a little of mastering two languages and the difficulties inherent therein. You see...I spoke German, was born in Great Britain and wandered to America, whose mother is German, and whose father is Swiss, and born into a family in which every single member of the family is born in a different country. I suspect your not American. It would clear up much as regards the syntax of your grammar as well as possibly the manner in which you understand certain phrases. Assuming you are not American, did you read the LOO in your native tongue?

Your point does brings up another interesting conundrum however: If our 5D STO wandering friends wandered into 3D, and became so lost but fortunate as to achieve a mid STS 6D graduation status into STS (by way of Harvesting = signature of light) would they have retreated in their positions, i.e. go backwards to 5D STO only to attempt to get to mid 6th STO by the least expeditious path, given they were already there, or shaken off the disconcreted-ness they no doubt would have discovered in any event, and then gone merrily about their STS ways anyway. Seems the answer also is almost as self evident. One probably doesn't throw away a lottery jackpot win in any density.

then these entities have changed polarity again, and joined Ra in positive 4d. now, are these entities 5d sto wanderers ? no. because 'wandering' concept is not found in 4d, since there is no veil and forgetting, they are not wanderers anymore. they are 4d entities at that point.
i dont think this even needs being debated.

I think your right. It doesn't need to be debated anymore. That they are stuck and not wandering anymore was never the point. You stated that as a result of their failure that they never were wanderers to begin with, and just above that calling them wanderers is more for conversation's sake, in spite of Ra stating otherwise. But your wandering again. The point was do 6D Wanderers Harvest. You've been insistent they do not. The answer however seems more than self evident by means of the Material and by virtue of Ra. 6D, 2D, 4D, aliens, 1D, 7D, 4D, wanderers, 8D, non-wanderers, 3D, all gods childens needs ta harvest, i.e. find their signature of light in order to graduate. This is HARVEST. This is the point.

Ra: Those who, finishing a cycle of experience,demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity.The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops.



This is HARVEST. To repeat it again would be fruitless if not repetitious. The readers must decide what is otherwise as glaring and as self-evident in the material.

The weather is fantastic now in Florida which is the very reason the snowbird tourists begin their annual migration here flocking to our shores from all over the world. The beach awaits me in Sarasota, as does my beautiful lady.

Ciao unity. Yours in Love and Light...as well as in humor, or my humble attempts thereof,

~ Q ~



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandhttp light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops.

[unity100]

let me share this thought :

you are purposefully evading my argument that because those entities have switched polarity and went negative, they cannot be named STO wanderers. not to mention that, after melding with planetary vibrations and adapting to it, they lose numerous conditions that define a wanderer. ie, they have changed, they are not the same entities from before.

i wont be replying you on this, since you seem to be conveniently ignoring concepts if it suits your argument, and reiterate the same thing over and over again.

you are doing the same thing regarding polarization, higher densities, and harvests. you are dubbing anything that doesnt suit your viewpoint as 'unity information', and claiming that they contradict what's in the Ra material. however, actually you are either deliberately ignoring, or, have forgotten a lot of important information from that material, on the subject you are talking.

to prevent going in circular posts, i am going to directly jump to the point to remind you what the material you are referencing to says on this :

I remain confused unity. I rather assumed the 6D wander wandered for a purpose, which most certainly was not to return to its exact home density, but in fact to HARVEST to a newer and higher etiolated density? In short, you insist that when a wanderer dies which hasn't changed its sto polarity, that it will return to its exact home density. One would hope that the 6D wanderer will never return to its exact home density, from which it wandered from given its primary purpose was to POLARIZE TO HIGHER ETIOLATED DENSITIES. thus necessitating a HARVEST to increase to a higher, if not sadly to a lower density. It runs the risk of always depolarizing a wee bit, to a great deal, or hopefully better yet increasing its HARVEST capacity a wee bit to a great deal more,such that it may even go to 7D, any of which would require a HARVEST, and almost certainly never returning to exactly where it originated from, thus necessitating a HARVEST to get to its newer density, whether greater or lessor.

this is wrong :

1 - 6d and 4d harvests are a harvest of societal complex. noone can be harvested alone. no wanderer will be able to do anything on this planet, and then go get harvested into 5d or 7d, by themselves, UNLESS their 4d or 6d societal complex is ready for harvest. they have to go join their own societal complex, or any other 4d or 6d societal complex that is going through 4d or 6d harvest, to go through harvest.

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=1&ss=1#13

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=1&ss=1#15

this is not 'unity's information. this is Law of One, densities and harvests, from Ra.

2 - A 4d or 6d societal complex requires a 4d or 6d harvests, and apparently, 4d cycles take 30 million years.

there is no such cycle coinciding with this time on this planet. it is doubtful that, 75,000 cycles on any planet would coincide with 30 million year cycles albeit rarely.

moreover, there is no 6d societal complexes or 4d societal complexes ready on this planet for harvest.

hence, a 4d or 6d harvest, cannot happen here. this closes down any kind of harvest possibility for entities ranging from 4d to end of 6d, ie, all the wanderer range incarnating on this planet now.

3 - Polarity is not a standard for higher density harvests.

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...c=1&ss=1#6

47.6 Questioner: What I was actually asking was if 50% is required for graduation from third to fourth in the positive sense and 95% was required for graduation in the negative sense, does this have to more closely approach 100% for graduation in both cases for graduation from fourth to fifth density? Does an entity have to be 99% polarized for negative and maybe 80% polarized positive for graduation?

Ra: I am Ra. We perceive the query now.

To give this in your terms is misleading for there are, shall we say, visual aids or training aids available in fourth density which automatically aid the entity in polarization while cutting down extremely upon the quick effect of catalyst. Thus the density above yours must take up more space/time.

The percentage of service-to-others of positively oriented entities will harmoniously approach 98% in intention. The qualifications for fifth density, however, involve understanding. This then, becomes the primary qualification for graduation from fourth to fifth density. To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light. The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting.

which means, nomatter how hardly a 4d entity polarizes here, not only s/he wont be able to have any harvest because 4d harvest is a harvest of societal complex, so it will require a societal complex, and cant be done alone, but also not be relevant to his/her polarization.

Moreover, 5th density harvest apparently, has little to do with polarity. Before you have fit this in your mind as 'unity information' :

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...c=1&ss=1#3

71.3 Questioner: This would probably be possible in the higher densities such as the fifth-density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. In fifth-density harvest, polarization has very little do to with harvestability.

among these, the ONLY (so far, we dont know about 7d, 8d harvests) harvest requiring polarization, and can happen alone without requiring a society complex, is, third.

and it is happening now.

YEP. Thatsa a whata I beena tryin to say...this based entirely on the Material versus your speculation to the contrary, and this so for any entity in question which necessitates its requirement to find its new signature of light vibration which almost certainly has risen, less sadly it has failed by decreasing, both which require a HARVEST. This definition is the definition of HARVEST = seeking its unique signature of light. This may bar your dilemma as regards any need for polarization wherein your confusion lies.

you are going and doing what you have been claiming i was doing. you are changing the material.

what harvest means, and how they happen, are clearly defined in the material you are speaking about, as above. what you say is contradicting this. you are inventing your own harvest concept. harvest != seeking its unique signature of light.

this is not a problem. however you are passing it as if it was in the Ra material, claiming it to be so.

it isnt. you have apparently forgotten some of the material you are speaking about. i cant think of any other explanation.

Loose the word polarization. Its standing in your way. An entity seeking its correspondent signature of light may be seen more clearly as a definition of HARVEST. Polarizations are not Harvests, albeit polarization encompasses same in 3D.

Your good. Your very good. <----This is me being sincere Idea This is where I salute you as regards your ability to stretch concepts within the material, but only if you stay within the material. Credit where credit is due. This might be a wonderful separate thread to consider.

doesnt matter. polarization is not relevant to higher density harvests still. you cant just 'lose' it, since 3d work involves polarization. and what higher density work that can be done with polarization, still becomes irrelevant to higher density harvest, as you have apparently realized below.

1. If a wanderer is of a Social Memory Complex, how then does a single unit of a said Social Memory Complex break away by individuating itself to come as a single soul of one in a single body within 3D. My guess is it seeks the Council's permission.
2. If it is able to seeks council's permission to wander as a single unit, may that single unit also then as a single unit surpass its previous Social Memory Complex to join a higher Social Memory Complex. It seems the answer is as self evident given the Ra quote that states wanderers wander to increase their polarity to achieve higher etiolated densities.
Guess we might not have to create the thread after all?

these are irrelevant to subject at hand. how can an entity who is a part of societal memory complex can act as a single unit, is a different matter, harvestability requirements are a different matter.

however, suffice it to say that i dont think differentiations in between harmonized entities end, until end of 7d.

moreover, even if an entity is a part of societal complex, it can still act individually, just like how Ra explains if they chose to do a walk-in agreement with Carla, Carla would have been suspended in time/space for the duration of the incarnation, and the part of Ra that walked-in would act just like how Carla would and shoulder her karmic burden, in a totally irrelevant subject.

again, these are irrelevant.

council permissions are not relevant for wandering. in wandering, an entity incarnates just like a 3d entity. it goes through the veil of forgetting. it doesnt act as a member of a 6d society complex without forgetting.

basically an entity becomes a 3d entity expect its spiritual biases, preferences, core vibrations in its spirit, and its experiences, past kept in its roots of mind. penetrating the veil allows access to these, if they can do that.

i have given quotes about irrelevance of polarity to higher density harvest requirements. i wont do it again.

Presumably Wanders seek polarity in 3D to increase their opportunities in seeking higher etiolated densities. Presumably in the higher densities where polarity is either non-existent or weak, it takes far longer to Harvest as a result. Thus 3D is a wonderful opportunity, if not in fact the only game in town, for these overachievers in higher density who have the character and makeup of gamblers and investors who are willing to play for higher stakes in the card game, i.e. win or loose, step right up, take your chances on lucky number 3 ladies and gentlemen.

polarity is the power to do work. it would be needed only if it was lacking. it wouldnt provide harvest requirement to a higher density entity.

I'm confused again. Now they are Wanderers. You stated implicitly they weren't. Your position is wandering
So Ra is communicating to us for conversation sakes? Do I sense me attempting to bring levity into the dialog once more through factitiousness?

im getting the impression that you are just discussing for argument's sake. this may keep me from discussing with you.

you are deliberately ignoring the word ORIGINALLY in that sentence. moreover, for the sake of your argument, you are able to keep calling 2 entities which have gone to negative during an incarnation, STO wanderers.

an entity which becomes negatively polarized, and acts without love against other entities and serves self, loses its service to OTHERS status. that is because, it is serving its self. this doesnt even need an explanation, hence, you are giving me the impression that you are just arguing for argument's sake, and doing it as a sport.

We return to the LOu (law of unity) versus the LOO. Certainly it is self evident that STS is not STO anymore, and that neither is black white (less we speak of either STS being STO or black being white as regards your definition of INFINITY....o-o-o-p-s...that's another thread.) You have changed the game once again. We are not discussing STO vs STS. We are discussing 6D Wanderering requirements of HARVEST. Had the 5D STO wanderers in question polarized so much that they effectively made it higher to STS lower 6D, they would have needed to seek their signature light in any event, meaning they would have needed to HARVEST to do so. They then would simply have been called STO wanderes nonetheless who wandered into 3D who graduated through HARVEST into low 6D STS. Nothing has changed.

there are no '6d wanderering requirements of harvest'. this is what you have just put forth, along with 'seeking unique signature of light' concept.

6d harvest is a society complex harvest, and cant be done. it doesnt matter where you wander, where you polarize, how much you polarize. 6d harvest will require a 6d society complex ready and going through a harvest.

Your point does brings up another interesting conundrum however: If our 5D STO wandering friends wandered into 3D, and became so lost but fortunate as to achieve a mid STS 6D graduation status into STS (by way of Harvesting = signature of light) would they have retreated in their positions, i.e. go backwards to 5D STO only to attempt to get to mid 6th STO by the least expeditious path, given they were already there, or shaken off the disconcreted-ness they no doubt would have discovered in any event, and then gone merrily about their STS ways anyway. Seems the answer also is almost as self evident. One probably doesn't throw away a lottery jackpot win in any density.

harvesting isnt seeking signature of light. its your opinion. the harvest concept, before and after veil, are defined in the text i linked to.

what you speak of above couldnt happen in any way, because those entities wouldnt be able to achieve a 6d sts graduation, a 4d graduation, or a 5d graduation with the necessary conditions for harvest being on that planet.

the conditions are defined in the links i gave. those entities would go join the planets and society complexes meeting those conditions. and this is what they did. they have joined Ra for some time.

let me sum it up, since you seem to have a habit of skipping important concepts as you see fit :

- 3d harvest happens every 25,000 years (at least on this planet). this is a cycle.
- 4d harvest for example, happens every 30,000,000 years.
- 4d harvest is a society complex one. 6d harvest is also a society complex one. these harvests CANNOT happen alone, nomatter what.
- 5 harvest has 'little to do with polarity'. this is what Ra says. no amount of polarization in 3d would allow an entity to be harvested into 5d on that criteria.
- noone would be able to get harvested into 5d without being a member of a 4d society complex, and that society complex, entirety of it, going through harvest and graduating.
- same goes for 6d harvest.
- harvest is not 'seeking your unique signature of light'. the requirements are defined as in the above, and in the densities section you can find from Law of One. there is no such unique signature of light concept.
- the only thing that can be remotely similar to your OWN harvest concept, is pre-veil harvest method of steps of light, to see where the entity stops. this is irrelevant in a veiled planet, post veil. its not the harvest method happening here.

these are all from Ra material.

I think your right. It doesn't need to be debated anymore. That they are stuck and not wandering anymore was never the point. You stated that as a result of their failure that they never were wanderers to begin with, and just above that calling them wanderers is more for conversation's sake, in spite of Ra stating otherwise. But your wandering again. The point was do 6D Wanderers Harvest. You've been insistent they do not. The answer however seems more than self evident by means of the Material and by virtue of Ra. 6D, 2D, 4D, aliens, 1D, 7D, 4D, wanderers, 8D, non-wanderers, 3D, all gods childens needs ta harvest, i.e. find their signature of light in order to graduate. This is HARVEST. This is the point.

the material says, it requires a 6d society complex to be harvested into 6d. since you dont have a society complex going to 6d harvest here, you cannot harvest any 6d entity. its simple as that. same goes for 4d entities.

moreover, the harvest cycles do not coincide. there is no 'one size fits all' 'harvest' for all densities. all densities have their own harvests.

this, what happening here is, 3d harvest. there are no other kind of harvests happening here.

.....................

apart from that, i am getting the impression that you are debating more for argument's sake, than to share anything or think together. this is the reason, i believe, that you are selectively ignoring things that do not fit your argument or perspective. in this particular post i replied to, you first have seen the concept of society complex requirement for some harvests, and acknowledged it, and then ignored it, trying to circumvent it through other means, with council permission, and whether an entity could act as a single unit if it was a member of a society complex. permissions were irrelevant since it was a normal incarnation, you either didnt know this, or, again, deliberately ignored it, or, forgot it. since all 6d wanderers need to be parts of society complexes, and there are 6d entities already wandering into 3d planets for a long time now, and 6d graduation requirement STILL requiring society complex harvest, apparently society complex members are able to act as if individual units. this doesnt even necessitate discussion. yet you threw this as an argument.

when debating such a detailed thing, one would expect the person debating it to know about what s/he is debating about, and talk on that basis. yet, you are either deliberately ignoring very important concepts regarding the subject when you see the need, or, have forgotten them.

'you are good. you are very good' and all that .... its as if you are doing a fencing game and appreciating your opponent's quick reflexes or something, than doing an information exchange or think together. i neither appreciate, nor like any of that. its counter productive and unfruitful.

[Quantum]

Hi unity,
Trusting your weekend as as wonderful as mine. Because you've opened up yet again an entirely newer and equally fascinating interpretation, i.e., a new subject, I will allow myself to re-enter the dialog given it is not circular. You have now suggested that 6D in 3D does not graduate individually, but in fact can only graduate by way of the entire SMC graduating. This is an entirely different dialog than was the original single point that 6D wanderers wandering do not need to harvest to return to 6D. Given the Ra etiolated quotes above in my posts that 6D wanderers come here to increase their polarization in 3D to etiolate into higher densities, I interpret this to clearly mean that they do, as Ra states, graduate into the higher etiolated densities they came to 3D for to accomplish. Other than uniquely assisting 3D, this too is very much a reason they come. How do they graduate to the higher densities then but by way of harvesting?

By your newer assumption, we now have the newer conundrum that 6D in 3D only graduates as a whole vs individually, or that they must not etiolate to higher densities, in spite of Ra stating that they do? Interesting.

let me share this thought :
you are purposefully evading my argument that because those entities have switched polarity and went negative, they cannot be named STO wanderers. not to mention that, after melding with planetary vibrations and adapting to it, they lose numerous conditions that define a wanderer. ie, they have changed, they are not the same entities from before

I've answered this more than once. They are lost wanderers, certainly no longer sto if they are sts, but in fact lost wanderers nonetheless, and who lost their polarity and their density. On this point it is truly pointless to quibble over semantics. They are no longer sto. I agreed. They are no longer 5D. I agreed. They became 3D. I agree. They became sts. I agree. They were 5D STO who lost their density and their polarity. Hence they are lost wanderers, but wanderers who became lost. Are they now in 6D not found again given they merged with Ra, and thus not the wanderers who lost their way? Lets move on to a larger point than this.

you are doing the same thing regarding polarization, higher densities, and harvests. you are dubbing anything that doesnt suit your viewpoint as 'unity information', and claiming that they contradict what's in the Ra material. however, actually you are either deliberately ignoring, or, have forgotten a lot of important information from that material, on the subject you are talking.

Ra said they were wanderers. unity says they're not. Quantum agrees with Ra. unity information is not Ra information.

1 - 6d and 4d harvests are a harvest of societal complex. no one can be harvested alone. no wanderer will be able to do anything on this planet, and then go get harvested into 5d or 7d, by themselves, UNLESS their 4d or 6d societal complex is ready for harvest. they have to go join their own societal complex, or any other 4d or 6d societal complex that is going through 4d or 6d harvest, to go through harvest.

Here is where it gets interesting again. Your good. Your very good. P.S....
this is a compliment my friend. Not an injury. You are able to also turn compliments on their head in that you throw them back and take umbrage instead?

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=1&ss=1#13
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=1&ss=1#15

this is not 'unity's information. this is Law of One, densities and harvests, from Ra.

Perhaps our exercise may now be more fruitful. What now are we to make of the contradictions of 6D wandering to 3D to etiolate to higher densities for the purpose of increasing their "individual polarization to graduate densities individually" versus your said requirement that all of 6D must graduate, even in 3D, as an entire SMC?
One might assume to read the texts less literally and read them more poetically instead. In other words, one may/must make general deductions rather than constricting oneself so narrowly that a deduction is missed or self-hijacked to a false conclusion. 6D in 6D graduates as a whole. Agreed. But a 6D wandering entity that wanders into 3D is no longer part of the whole SMC. It has broken away from the whole. It is now a wandering 6D entity wandering into 3D. 6D in 3D does not not make it a 6D entity any longer. It makes it a 6D wandering entity now a 3D entity that used to be 6D. Thus it is a wanderer (even if it does get lost, or even if does switch polarities).

Thus the distinguishing difference is that you are speaking about apples (6D) and attempting to compare them to oranges (3D). The individual 6D entity takes an individuated chance at great peril to itself, this by breaking away from the Hive Collective of the SMC, and in no way endangers the entire Collective of the SMC. Were your logic correct, then the 5D wanderers who became lost and switched their polarities would have doomed the entire STO SMC Collective to not only being lost in 3D, but also to becoming STS in 4D on graduation. The quotes you have provided above are extremely relevant to the new discussion. Your logic however fails to make the finer distinctions in them.

moreover, there is no 6d societal complexes or 4d societal complexes ready on this planet for harvest.

there are no '6d wanderering requirements of harvest'. this is what you have just put forth, along with 'seeking unique signature of light' concept.
6d harvest is a society complex harvest, and cant be done. it doesnt matter where you wander, where you polarize, how much you polarize. 6d harvest will require a 6d society complex ready and going through a harvest.

The above two posts prove the point. There is no SMC on this planet whatsoever. 6D is in 3D. The 6D entity embodies 3D in every single respect, including no longer being SMC. It is individuated. 6D harvests in 6D as a whole. 6D wanderers in 3D harvest in 3D individually.

hence, a 4d or 6d harvest, cannot happen here. this closes down any kind of harvest possibility for entities ranging from 4d to end of 6d, ie, all the wanderer range incarnating on this planet now.

You see your above? You've done it again. It does matter very much where you wonder...I mean wander. You've jumped and drawn characteristics into the equation which are not there, this through what I am naming as literal interpretations which then seemingly blur inner distinctions that are indeed there, but that you seem to be missing. It is agreed that 4D and 6D harvest never happens here. Only 3D harvest happens here. But your logic has entrapped 4D and 6D into being 4D and 6D here in 3D, rather than fully as 3D in 3D, and this conclusion solely as a result of this logic then jumped further by suggesting that as a result there is no harvest for 6D in 3D, all in order to support the error in logic to begin with that 6D is now by your definition an SMC now in 3D. The wanderer in 6D is no longer 6D. It is 3D. It does not harvest as a 6D entity any longer. It harvests as the 3D entity it became. The 6D entity is no longer part of the SMC when it comes to 3D. It comes to 3D individually at great peril to itself. 6D remaining in 6D does harvest as a collective SMC, but 6D re-entering 3D harvests individually in 3D. By harvesting individually in 3D it may harvest to a higher etiolated density as a result, by increasing its polarization in 3D as a result of polarization not being present in higher densities, for which it came to 3D for. Thus a 6D may surpass his original SMC, benefiting itself individually to be sure, as well as 3D to be sue, and perhaps even its original SMC 2ndarily.

Polarity is not a standard for higher density harvests.http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=47&sc=1&ss=1#

WE already have established this. 6D comes to 3D as a result of 3D being the only Polarity game in town. Thus it is agreed that Polarity is not a standard for higher density. But unity, 3D is not higher density. It is 3D. 6D in 3D is in 3D.

YEP. Thats a whata I beena tryin to say...this based entirely on the Material versus your speculation to the contrary, and this so for any entity in question which necessitates its requirement to find its new signature of light vibration which almost certainly has risen, less sadly it has failed by decreasing, both which require a HARVEST. This definition is the definition of HARVEST = seeking its unique signature of light. This may bar your dilemma as regards any need for polarization wherein your confusion lies.

you are going and doing what you have been claiming i was doing. you are changing the material.

Nope. The material stands. I am not Ra. I don't know squat. I am however able to read. I attempt to do this by attempting to sometimes call a cigar a cigar, and at other times allow what I hope is common sense to prevail. How else but by individuation do you propose that 6D descends into 3D? Does one 6D entity that fails in 3D drag down the whole of 6D? God, I hope not. That would truly suck, not to mention slowing down progress such that creation itself would be a drag, literally, as in "drag" per a physics definition ("sucks" may poetically be implied as physics definition as well). By the same token, does one single 6D entity who wanderers into 3D drag along the entire 6D with its graduation to higher densities. This would be tantamount to a Christian theology concept that you argue so vehemently against, as in Jesus died for my sins, and that because he did, I'm good. Let J.C. do all the work. I'm saved. Or do you propose that the 6D entity in 3D did not either etiloate higher or lower in density, even though Ra stated they do? Allow the flexibility to see this, or remain stuck.

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...&sc=1&ss=1#
what harvest means, and how they happen, are clearly defined in the material you are speaking about, as above. what you say is contradicting this. you are inventing your own harvest concept. harvest != seeking its unique signature of light.

No invention here. Seeking its unique signature of light = stopping at the level of light unable to proceed further as defined.

an entity which becomes negatively polarized, and acts without love against other entities and serves self, loses its service to OTHERS status. that is because, it is serving its self. this doesnt even need an explanation, hence, you are giving me the impression that you are just arguing for argument's sake, and doing it as a sport.

Covered already. I will however admit that sometimes I have fun, and sometimes do take delight in intellectual dialog, and that yes, sometimes it is sport, but always with the underlying foundation of learning and growing. In my collegiate days of University seeking my Masters and Doctoral degrees, I was always impressed by the plethora of information a professor was able to display until it occurred to me per the Ra vernacular, that they are continually learning by teaching. The best of the best did so by having fun. So yes, sometimes it is sport. You are the rock upon which I sharpen my blade.

since all 6d wanderers need to be parts of society complexes, and there are 6d entities already wandering into 3d planets for a long time now, and 6d graduation requirement STILL requiring society complex harvest, apparently society complex members are able to act as if individual units. this doesnt even necessitate discussion. yet you threw this as an argument.

So they are capable of acting as individual units, but they are not capable of harvesting individually, but they are individuated? "Is you is or is you ain't my Baby?" as Sachamo used to sing. What is 6D in 3D unity? Are they individuated or not? If individuated, they can not Harvest in 3D individually because they are not individuated in 3D as a result of being part of the 6D SMC, even while in 3D? So, if they succeed in their mission of further polarizing in 3D, they don't get to go higher in density and even surpass their original SMC brothers in their original 6D SMC , even tough Ra says they do through successful etiolated efforts, this because 6D Harvests as a Collective, even though in this case the 6D wanderer is in 3D, and in spite of the fact that they are individuated as you agree? I hear Sachamo (Louie Armstrong) singing again.

I see STO 6D more like an STO Hippie Commune in that you can come and go as you please, and even come and go higher, or fall lower, as you please and chance individually. Your definition of 6D and STO wandering in 3D in particular, is rather more like the Mob in that you can't get out. "Ve go as von or ve dont go at all" may be true for the SMC complex as a whole, or more to the point the STS 6D SMC, but not for the individual that chances it alone, at great love, foolhardiness, and risk to self. Wandering is not for the faint of heart.

Your good. Your very good. <----This is me being sincere. This is where I salute you as regards your ability to stretch concepts within the material, but only if you stay within the material. Credit where credit is due. This might be a wonderful separate thread to consider.

'you are good. you are very good' and all that .... its as if you are doing a fencing game and appreciating your opponent's quick reflexes or something, than doing an information exchange or think together. i neither appreciate, nor like any of that. its counter productive and unfruitful.

You are good at stretching concepts unity. It stimulates thought and dialog. Take a compliment as a compliment as it is meant my friend rather than as the affronts or umbrages you have several times now on several posts and several other threads. I do believe you sometimes restrict the material substantially enough so as to draw one conclusion to another so as to color it enough to pull you off course. Its what I am here for on B4th, we are here for on B4th, you are here on B4th. I have mentioned your penchant to do this on more than one post and on more than one thread. Lets loose it. It takes the fun away. I give you permission to tease and have fun with me too

~ Q ~

[unity100]

unfortunately i dont find discussing with you productive. i think what has been discussed up to this point is enough, and the information in my last post is clear, and certain regarding the harvest issue. i dont see the need to reiterate them again. i thank you for your participation.

[Etude in B Minor]

Not to get enmeshed in this back-and-forth, but it seems to me rather simple:

A 6D entity enters 3D as an individual. Upon death (or whatever might happen in 2012) the entity "walks the steps of light" along with all of the other 3D types. It goes to where it feels comfortable, which would probably back to the 6D level. If that is the case then it rejoins its social memory complex (not a "hive"!). If it feels more comfortable for some reason in 4D or 5D (or even 3D!) it stays there. If in 4D it might even join a different SMC (all is possible!). Ra says that one can graduate from 5D to 6D as an individual so it might be more likely that the 6D->3D entity would end up in 5D over 4D. But it would seem most likely that the entity would feel most comfortable back "home" in 6D. I suppose it is within the realm of possibility to go all the way to 7D, but this might be difficult unless it was done with all of the 6D SMC going along at the same time.