[split] "The dark attacks from the shadow ..."

[Parsons]

Ananda was the only one left at the time of the first council of Buddha’s own disciples who didn’t become an arhat. He was Buddha’s attendant. He heard every word that Buddha taught, and memorized them all, but he didn’t meditate much because he was too busy.

Some time after Buddha’s death, there was a meeting of all the arhats, but since Ananda wasn’t an arhat he couldn’t go. So he kept meditating, trying at the last minute to become enlightened, and it got to be midnight, 2, 3 o’clock in the morning of the first council of Buddhist arhats, but still he couldn’t make it, even though he was the repository of all of Buddha’s words. All the other arhats wanted him to go, but he couldn’t since he wasn’t an arhat.

Finally it got to be 3:45 in the morning, 15 minutes before the 4:00 wakeup call. Finally, Ananda just gave up and said, “Oh ********, I’m not an arhat.” Then he got enlightened, because he saw things as they were. It was the end of the struggle. No more trying to become an arhat, and he became an arhat.

Many Buddhist traditions teach this story. That says something that is being yourself, rather than to mere doing and self-improvement. It expresses clear vision, seeing things just as they are, rather than as we’d like them to be.

I decided it was very important to 'be myself' about 6 months or so. I have been integrating the knowledge I have attained into my general personality and my whole being. It has been an extremely rewarding experience thus far. As you can see from earlier in this thread, I am not without doubt at times.

---

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.  And Myself, was in no way enough.

This here may be the biggest lie you are telling yourself. You are YOU, a facet of the Creator, and YOU are MORE than enough. Each of us is. That's why it's so important to work on ourselves first because changing our consciousness IS important, and it IS enough.

Seconded. My own self worth was the key to overcoming my extreme depression.

[AnthroHeart]

Seconded. My own self worth was the key to overcoming my extreme depression.

Do I too seem like I've had extreme depression in the past?

I'm trying to be flowery now. I think I'm beginning to flower.

- Thomas

[Parsons]

I think a lot of people end up depressed; but I can't say if you specifically were extremely depressed in the past. Do you feel like you have / have had no self worth?

IMO, you should be what you want to be, not what you think you should be.

[Minyatur]

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.

This is extremely untrue, and by extremely I mean it's something one needs to be conscious of. Polarized thoughts have enormous creative power, this may not be reflected in immediate space/time but you are injecting each of them in time/space. So whatever thoughts you have is quite fine and well, but it is in a way your responsibility to be conscious of your thoughts and the creative power they hold as to not be unconscious of what you're doing. As a simple example, you can quite easily bless or curse yourself just as others with simple polarized thoughts.

You are Co-Creator of this reality, think not of yourself as any less.

[Minyatur]

The first problem I'd say, is you misunderstand me.  I dropped Polarity in the sense of LEFT/RIGHT BLACK/WHITE UP/DOWN for something closer to Left/Middle/Right, Black/Graey/White, Up/Center/Down.  But much closer to an infinity that touches all things in potential and a majority of known things in manifestation.

Like I said to me this seems a bit to over complexity things. Looking at things through an infinite scope is looking through distortions, by breaking down distortions we go back to the foundations of each things.

In the idea of Oneness, you can always only move your understanding toward having a duality of one thought. Polarity is direction to Love, through an infinite scope these two directions simply each have an infinite spectrum each of their own just as they have deepness to themselves and are infinitely fractalized into something always different. As such whatever feeling you have, each will always hold a polarity of itself because they exist within distortions of this duality.

...

I don't know if you've heard of the general systems theory, that is one of the things humans got a really good insight on. Within this theory there's the concept of positive and negative feedback, neither are good nor bad and both have their own role toward making systems of greater and greater complexity composed of more simplistic systems having more simplistic sub-systems, etc. Polarity is likewise neither good nor bad but instead is nothing but a feedback loop through your awareness, allowing greater complexity to take place, allowing a control to bring change.

Polarity is one duality, which was made the center of our experience. I could easily see octaves where polarity is existent but not considered the main focus of experience upon which densities and such are built.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

The first problem I'd say, is you misunderstand me.  I dropped Polarity in the sense of LEFT/RIGHT BLACK/WHITE UP/DOWN for something closer to Left/Middle/Right, Black/Graey/White, Up/Center/Down.  But much closer to an infinity that touches all things in potential and a majority of known things in manifestation.

Like I said to me this seems a bit to over complexity things. Looking at things through an infinite scope is looking through distortions, by  breaking down distortions we go back to the foundations of each things.

In the idea of Oneness, you can always only move your understanding toward having a duality of one thought. Polarity is direction to Love, through an infinite scope these two directions simply each have an infinite spectrum each of their own just as they have deepness to themselves and are infinitely fractalized into something always different. As such whatever feeling you have, each will always hold a polarity of itself because they exist within distortions of this duality.

...

I don't know if you've heard of the general systems theory, that is one of the things humans got a really good insight on. Within this theory there's the concept of positive and negative feedback, neither are good nor bad and both have their own role toward making systems of greater and greater complexity composed of more simplistic systems having more simplistic sub-systems, etc. Polarity is likewise neither good nor bad but instead is nothing but a feedback loop through your awareness, allowing greater complexity to take place, allowing a control to bring change.

Polarity is one duality, which was made the center of our experience. I could easily see octaves where polarity is existent but not considered the main focus of experience upon which densities and such are built.

And what underlies Love?

And, or

Why do you have a problem with my reality?

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.

This is extremely untrue, and by extremely I mean it's something one needs to be conscious of. Polarized thoughts have enormous creative power, this may not be reflected in immediate space/time but you are injecting each of them in time/space. So whatever thoughts you have is quite fine and well, but it is in a way your responsibility to be conscious of your thoughts and the creative power they hold as to not be unconscious of what you're doing. As a simple example, you can quite easily bless or curse yourself just as others with simple polarized thoughts.

You are Co-Creator of this reality, think not of yourself as any less.

I highly do not resonate with this lol

I am ALL things.   How can you say what I am and am not?

[AnthroHeart]

I think a lot of people end up depressed; but I can't say if you specifically were extremely depressed in the past. Do you feel like you have / have had no self worth?

IMO, you should be what you want to be, not what you think you should be.

I've never been down to no self worth, but I have wanted to die many times.
I have a clear understanding of what I want to be. Just not sure if I can achieve that in this life.

But I am scared. I feel unsafe.

[Aion]

Hmm, I don't think I've heard that one.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...#pid152684

Ah yes, I actually remember when that was posted.

[Aion]

Ananda was the only one left at the time of the first council of Buddha’s own disciples who didn’t become an arhat. He was Buddha’s attendant. He heard every word that Buddha taught, and memorized them all, but he didn’t meditate much because he was too busy.

Some time after Buddha’s death, there was a meeting of all the arhats, but since Ananda wasn’t an arhat he couldn’t go. So he kept meditating, trying at the last minute to become enlightened, and it got to be midnight, 2, 3 o’clock in the morning of the first council of Buddhist arhats, but still he couldn’t make it, even though he was the repository of all of Buddha’s words. All the other arhats wanted him to go, but he couldn’t since he wasn’t an arhat.

Finally it got to be 3:45 in the morning, 15 minutes before the 4:00 wakeup call. Finally, Ananda just gave up and said, “Oh ********, I’m not an arhat.” Then he got enlightened, because he saw things as they were. It was the end of the struggle. No more trying to become an arhat, and he became an arhat.

Many Buddhist traditions teach this story. That says something that is being yourself, rather than to mere doing and self-improvement. It expresses clear vision, seeing things just as they are, rather than as we’d like them to be.

I decided it was very important to 'be myself' about 6 months or so. I have been integrating the knowledge I have attained into my general personality and my whole being. It has been an extremely rewarding experience thus far. As you can see from earlier in this thread, I am not without doubt at times.

---

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.  And Myself, was in no way enough.

This here may be the biggest lie you are telling yourself. You are YOU, a facet of the Creator, and YOU are MORE than enough. Each of us is. That's why it's so important to work on ourselves first because changing our consciousness IS important, and it IS enough.

Seconded. My own self worth was the key to overcoming my extreme depression.

I've probably posted this a dozen times to the forum but it can always use reiteration.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. - Marianne Williamson

[Minyatur]

The first problem I'd say, is you misunderstand me.  I dropped Polarity in the sense of LEFT/RIGHT BLACK/WHITE UP/DOWN for something closer to Left/Middle/Right, Black/Graey/White, Up/Center/Down.  But much closer to an infinity that touches all things in potential and a majority of known things in manifestation.

Like I said to me this seems a bit to over complexity things. Looking at things through an infinite scope is looking through distortions, by  breaking down distortions we go back to the foundations of each things.

In the idea of Oneness, you can always only move your understanding toward having a duality of one thought. Polarity is direction to Love, through an infinite scope these two directions simply each have an infinite spectrum each of their own just as they have deepness to themselves and are infinitely fractalized into something always different. As such whatever feeling you have, each will always hold a polarity of itself because they exist within distortions of this duality.

...

I don't know if you've heard of the general systems theory, that is one of the things humans got a really good insight on. Within this theory there's the concept of positive and negative feedback, neither are good nor bad and both have their own role toward making systems of greater and greater complexity composed of more simplistic systems having more simplistic sub-systems, etc. Polarity is likewise neither good nor bad but instead is nothing but a feedback loop through your awareness, allowing greater complexity to take place, allowing a control to bring change.

Polarity is one duality, which was made the center of our experience. I could easily see octaves where polarity is existent but not considered the main focus of experience upon which densities and such are built.

And what underlies Love?

Love is the orignal thought of our Octave, what underlies it is Void. Within that unified thought exist distorted individualized experience of it.

And, or

Why do you have a problem with my reality?

I don't but you're posting on a forum so i don't quite see how you expect to not get something returned from it.

What I see is that you distorted the Ra material into something it was not to hurt yourself while unconsciously seeking to do so and that despite not finding a single person on this forum that had the same impression of it you had, you want to keep at the blame game.

In Ra's defense it is quite hard to share information so many call for when you know some will seek it to use it as a self-destructive tool. And that is the burden of their ways because they do care.

Also I never went against nor disagreed really with what you said, I simply don't understand why you avoid discussing the more basic and fundamental concept that transcends any distorted view of polarity. As such you speak of polarity but you show that you do not wish to dwell on the essence of it.

[Minyatur]

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.

This is extremely untrue, and by extremely I mean it's something one needs to be conscious of. Polarized thoughts have enormous creative power, this may not be reflected in immediate space/time but you are injecting each of them in time/space. So whatever thoughts you have is quite fine and well, but it is in a way your responsibility to be conscious of your thoughts and the creative power they hold as to not be unconscious of what you're doing. As a simple example, you can quite easily bless or curse yourself just as others with simple polarized thoughts.

You are Co-Creator of this reality, think not of yourself as any less.

I highly do not resonate with this lol

I am ALL things.   How can you say what I am and am not?

This is the essence of ALL things as ALL things are Co-Creator.

If you wish to not consider your thoughts as having any creative power that is fine, but I tell you that you are lying to yourself and injecting thought forms into the time/space of this reality. Your thoughts have ripples, and the more charged they are the truer this is.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

[Jade]

I think a lot of people end up depressed; but I can't say if you specifically were extremely depressed in the past. Do you feel like you have / have had no self worth?

IMO, you should be what you want to be, not what you think you should be.

I'm in the middle of "The Nature of Personal Reality" (Seth) and it rang true when he specifically talks about depression being equated with the feeling of powerlessness, of not being able to change your reality/consciousness and being at the mercy of events outside of you.

Of course, what Seth teaches is that reality is the product of your conscious and unconscious beliefs, so it's exactly the opposite - we aren't at the mercy of events outside of us, we are at the mercy of ourselves.

I usually associate feelings of depression and low self-worth with an indigo blockage. It's like when plenum talked about how sometimes the colors are extra ON, and then they turn back off.

I think the typical pattern is that we get unblocked for a while, everything is gravy, and then we get an "echo" of the old reality that we don't want to be in, which causes us to doubt ourselves again, which leads to the indigo ray being blocked again. OR, we begin to see reality reflect our changes in consciousness, and that can get frightening, all the responsibility! So we shut it back down. This is where Tanner's quote is apt.

The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to manifestations which appear as unworthiness. This is that of which you spoke. As you can see, this is but one of many distortions due to the several points of energy influx into the mind/body/spirit complex. The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth.

We are all worthy. We are all the Creator. We just let our thoughts get in the way of experiencing that all the time.

[Jade]

After I made that post, I went to Jim's blog. He had this to say about Carla, which I think is a pretty common pattern for previously polarized entities:

Frequently our friend of negative polarity would accomplish a working to cause her to overextend herself by enhancing her indigo ray sense of a lack of self-worth, and then also intensify her green-ray desire to serve others more to compensate for the perceived lack of self-worth. The combination would further deplete her physical energy reserves. It was necessary for Carla to look to the deepest level of service which she wished to offer, and use her will to focus her thoughts and energies there. She was eventually able to do this well, as she did anything to which she put her will to work.

[Minyatur]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

I am not doing any judgment, I am trying to make you aware of something.

Just like when you said that light hurts, you have been the one judging youself with light.

[Minyatur]

In retrospect, the greatest thing learned from all of that was that Polarity does not change anything around me, only Myself.

This is extremely untrue, and by extremely I mean it's something one needs to be conscious of. Polarized thoughts have enormous creative power, this may not be reflected in immediate space/time but you are injecting each of them in time/space. So whatever thoughts you have is quite fine and well, but it is in a way your responsibility to be conscious of your thoughts and the creative power they hold as to not be unconscious of what you're doing. As a simple example, you can quite easily bless or curse yourself just as others with simple polarized thoughts.

You are Co-Creator of this reality, think not of yourself as any less.

I highly do not resonate with this lol

I am ALL things.   How can you say what I am and am not?

This is the essence of ALL things as ALL things are Co-Creator.

If you wish to not consider your thoughts as having any creative power that is fine, but I tell you that you are lying to yourself and injecting thought forms into the time/space of this reality. Your thoughts have ripples, and the more charged they are the truer this is.

To add to this, it is like when you said you did not know how to heal and others have tried to tell you it is an ability you already have.

You not being aware of it or dismissing it does not negate it from the essence of your being. Through resonance thoughts are creative, through polarity/being charged (however you want to state it) they hold power.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

I am not doing any judgment, I am trying to make you aware of something.

Just like when you said that light hurts, you have been the one judging youself with light.

Ah, so you're just negating me then.  Very good, sir.

I think a lot of people end up depressed; but I can't say if you specifically were extremely depressed in the past. Do you feel like you have / have had no self worth?

IMO, you should be what you want to be, not what you think you should be.

I'm in the middle of "The Nature of Personal Reality" (Seth) and it rang true when he specifically talks about depression being equated with the feeling of powerlessness, of not being able to change your reality/consciousness and being at the mercy of events outside of you.

Of course, what Seth teaches is that reality is the product of your conscious and unconscious beliefs, so it's exactly the opposite - we aren't at the mercy of events outside of us, we are at the mercy of ourselves.

I usually associate feelings of depression and low self-worth with an indigo blockage. It's like when plenum talked about how sometimes the colors are extra ON, and then they turn back off.

I think the typical pattern is that we get unblocked for a while, everything is gravy, and then we get an "echo" of the old reality that we don't want to be in, which causes us to doubt ourselves again, which leads to the indigo ray being blocked again. OR, we begin to see reality reflect our changes in consciousness, and that can get frightening, all the responsibility! So we shut it back down. This is where Tanner's quote is apt.

The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to manifestations which appear as unworthiness. This is that of which you spoke. As you can see, this is but one of many distortions due to the several points of energy influx into the mind/body/spirit complex. The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth.

We are all worthy. We are all the Creator. We just let our thoughts get in the way of experiencing that all the time.

It was less responsibility being an issue, extremely more-so I became very, very tired.  To the point I had trouble just getting out of bed from sleepiness.  It was like I was hit with constant fatigue, I'm not one to push myself, when I need to rest, I need to rest.  Few things will change that.

Have any one of you ever spent several months being in as many ways you can actually intrinsically or judicially or...physically of Service to Others?  Where you trained your mind to have no ill will, to truly see God and to ennact love to All Beings before you?  Where toxicity was met with resolute peace, and anger or cruelty met with unwavering kindness.  To be in love with people for who they are no matter who or what they show or how or why?

The only responsibility I had in regards to pouring love into the reality, was To Love Unconditionally, to Feel Truly Love for AnOther.  That made my Reality, Love itself in 3D form.

The trouble came with weariness, not worrisome thoughts, and I consider that me having been burned out. A.

B, I was doing a lot of work in Consciousness (relatively speaking) in those months, all, completely, alone.

That's...unrecommended.

Has anyone here ever done as I?  If not I still think you can understand my position at the time.  All alone, constantly giving all I got, only to see that those I helped remain sad and miserable as I grew happier and happier.  I could not help anyone to be happy in any lasting meaningful way.  Only Myself, and I was, until I wanted so badly to share those feelings of bliss and joy, to no avail even remotely, unable to even scratch the surface.  Unscathed.  People suffer.

And I can't stop or help it.

That was all I wanted, I thought changing my reality would also help others.  It was temporary, essentially meaningless.  And that saddened me.  And it made me weary.  Until I just couldn't deal with it anymore.  It's not the responsibility, its the sorrow and hope that made me push myself so hard I burnt out.

All I ever wanted was to make people happy, and time and time again, I see I am incapable of doing such in a meaningful fulfilling nontemporary way.  So much so, I gave up.

Me admitting my faults.  Not beating myself up.  I wish I was still physically perfect and infinite.  I acted like it and wrecked myself.

[Minyatur]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

I am not doing any judgment, I am trying to make you aware of something.

Just like when you said that light hurts, you have been the one judging youself with light.

Ah, so you're just negating me then.  Very good, sir.

Neither that.

Perhaps you are the one judging and negating yourself?

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

I am not doing any judgment, I am trying to make you aware of something.

Just like when you said that light hurts, you have been the one judging youself with light.

Ah, so you're just negating me then.  Very good, sir.

Neither that.

Perhaps you are the one judging and negating yourself?

Please Min.  You have not listened to anything I've said even when I listened and considered what you've said.  You constantly posit your version over mine where I am not positing my version as above any others.  I have my version of Reality and the Truth as do you and every one else here.  I am sharing my view, you constantly tell me in implying it's wrong for 'the way things really are'.

You don't even see that you describe yourself.  You deny EVERYTHING I say.

It is.  Very.  Annoying.  Yet I respond out of respect, I could just ignore you endlessly but then no one learns anything on either end.  But I see no one is learning even as I respond.  It asks me to approach you in a very unique angle.

Let me show you yourself.

Reality does not do as you've said it does and you know this to be true, you've read the Ra Material and seen portions that do not add up, and you too have moved away from THE VERSION of Reality posited in the Material for your own, but believe it to be the way reality is for everyone because you literally apply everyone as you without recognizing the uniqueness in them mechanically.  You are certain ways and you deny and judge that.

Now let me recap.

I just told you what you were, how reality actually is, and what is and is not the way things are for you.

If you do not see yourself in this, then I decree you do not actually know what you're talking about, but giving an earnest effort to make is seem as if you do for the sake of being the way you want to be, which is apathetic, unfeeling, and uncaring.

Now let me re-recap, I just assaulted you.

If you don't feel anything, then you do not understand how I feel, or I, or my reality or my Truth or anything of these things or their natures.  And in that confusion, you try to confuse me too.

In ACTUALITY, the underlying reality, my way is my way, Ra's way is Ra's way, L/L's way is L/L's way, Carla's way was Carla's way, and your way is your way.

Your way is not my way.

I REPEAT.

Your way is not my way.

You've given me quite a nice headache, pounding on the right side because I'm unsure if I should use scathing words to cut into that numb shell and touch some actual meat and tug away, or if I should offer sincere kindness and endless consideration trying to coax you out of that shell of you-ness.  I don't want to do either honestly because I see now that you do not hear, listen, see, understand, or know what I am talking about, but you speak a lot of confused aspects of The Ra Material.

You use your answers as placeholders for THE answers.  Nothing underlies Love except that which it stemmed from, which I promise you, was not a primordial void.  Eternity is Eternity.  You call my way Complex, I see it as Simpler than your way however.

Either we're now dancing a game of blocks (makes me want to play minecraft) or we're stumbling around each other like two children unable to make amends and bridge their understandings because one says their way is the way and another feels their way is only their way.

And I'm going to stop dancing now.  You make me tired too.  Because I can't do anything to help you see that while you are not wrong, you are also not completely right.  Never mind anything else pertaining to how you 'come off' judging me then deny doing so, and how you 'come off' negating my views then deny doing that as well.

What would you like me to do almighty wise Elros?  I shall bow down and kiss your toes if that'll help, I'll worship the ground you walk upon, and decree your way as THE WAY, while secretly living my own out of your view and influence.  Will that help my slavemaster?  IS that what you want?  Me to agree with you?  Say, 'Yes Min, You're absolutely right and I was blind and wrong all along because I did not hear, listen, see know, understand, or comprehend anything at all and was always too confused but you're so pure and proper in all you say that your way is THE WAY.  Hallujah I AM FREE, THANK YOU!'

Cause I'll do that.  Feet don't gross me out, and the ground is fun to worship.  I am a hypocrite and go back on my own opinions often as they are usually changing as I go about my life.

How shall I please you this time?  Maybe I'll admit that I am capable of negation and judgment, or maybe I'll just show you what it means to be negated and judged?  OR maybe I'll just not care, or maybe I will.

OR maybe who knows.  I don't but you sure seem to, so enlighten me Elros-Tar-Minyutar.  Tell me the Truth about my Reality and all that is wrong with it.  I await you.

[AnthroHeart]

How can we respond without jostling another's feelings?

[Minyatur]

Please Min.  You have not listened to anything I've said even when I listened and considered what you've said.  You constantly posit your version over mine where I am not positing my version as above any others.  I have my version of Reality and the Truth as do you and every one else here.  I am sharing my view, you constantly tell me in implying it's wrong for 'the way things really are'.

Sure, but there are common grounds which you would not be exempt of, that's kinda the whole idea of Logos.

You don't even see that you describe yourself.  You deny EVERYTHING I say.

This is very untrue, i nitpick on very few of what you say and generally simply try to move toward a more unified perception of common ground concepts between Co-Creators.

It is.  Very.  Annoying.  Yet I respond out of respect, I could just ignore you endlessly but then no one learns anything on either end.  But I see no one is learning even as I respond.  It asks me to approach you in a very unique angle.

Want an interesting experience among Co-Creators. Almost seems like an archetype.

You are free to ignore me if you will.

Let me show you yourself.

Reality does not do as you've said it does and you know this to be true

What if I don't? Guess I'd need convincing explanations to think otherwise rather than avoidance of what I say.

you've read the Ra Material and seen portions that do not add up, and you too have moved away from THE VERSION of Reality posited in the Material for your own

I'd disagree with this, I perceived imbalances and bias within the Ra material due to a limited set of experiences, I do think it gives some of the right keys toward a good understanding of the nature of reality within this space/time time/space and other near-space/times and time/spaces.

but believe it to be the way reality is for everyone because you literally apply everyone as you without recognizing the uniqueness in them mechanically.  You are certain ways and you deny and judge that.

Now let me recap.

I just told you what you were, how reality actually is, and what is and is not the way things are for you.

I speak very little of my personal experience of things and am well aware that there are differentiation between mind, body and spirit among every other-selves, always has been a huge interest of mine.

About the bold part, quote from above which part actually gave any picture of how reality actually is.

If you do not see yourself in this, then I decree you do not actually know what you're talking about, but giving an earnest effort to make is seem as if you do for the sake of being the way you want to be, which is apathetic, unfeeling, and uncaring.

I have a tendency to consider myself apathetic, unfeeling and uncaring but the people which truly gazed upon my soul all told me otherwise, just as it also became clear me.

I am a soul that does care a lot.

Now let me re-recap, I just assaulted you.

If you don't feel anything, then you do not understand how I feel, or I, or my reality or my Truth or anything of these things or their natures.  And in that confusion, you try to confuse me too.

I do understand you are very unbalanced. I got this kind of argument a few times, don't tell an emotive unbalanced person about the usefulness of meditation for example because they'll just hate you. Well do so if you believe it is fine that you receive hate and that you believe there's chances they will come to use the idea you gave them to help healing themselves.

I am sorry both to you and every other person that experience a living hell out of being themselves while I don't, I do believe I've been through quite my share to be how I am.

I've resisted quite a lot to open myself emphatically because I found it hard to give up on my state of inner well being to feel the unwellness of others. This is how I set my experience, that it shall be something to be sought and not inherently there as to bring greater change within myself. But through various different experiences I came to know I actually can enjoy it pretty much and find it is quite the beautiful thing, emotions are most glorious just as providing help to heal.

I'm still resisting opening myself but have rarely discussed the reasons on this forum although there are clues.

In ACTUALITY, the underlying reality, my way is my way, Ra's way is Ra's way, L/L's way is L/L's way, Carla's way was Carla's way, and your way is your way.

Your way is not my way.

You are

I REPEAT.

Your way is not my way.

You are quite perceptible, this is indeed true and is something I've been repeating so much on this forum I started to wonder if there's a point in saying the same thing over and over.

You've given me quite a nice headache, pounding on the right side because I'm unsure if I should use scathing words to cut into that numb shell and touch some actual meat and tug away, or if I should offer sincere kindness and endless consideration trying to coax you out of that shell of you-ness.  I don't want to do either honestly because I see now that you do not hear, listen, see, understand, or know what I am talking about, but you speak a lot of confused aspects of The Ra Material.

If you can actually succeed in touching some meat and tug away, do so because I am a moon in Scorpio (which kind of seek these things, emotionally challenging things) and so far there's only been 3 people on this forum who succeeded.

You use your answers as placeholders for THE answers.  Nothing underlies Love except that which it stemmed from, which I promise you, was not a primordial void.  Eternity is Eternity.  You call my way Complex, I see it as Simpler than your way however.

My answers are not THE answers, I'm just programmed for this mainly just as talking out disagreements within perception of things rather than completely trying to avoid it. To me it is most enjoyable to do, but I did notice some have extreme resistance toward this.. like they're afraid of breaking down something they think.

Either we're now dancing a game of blocks (makes me want to play minecraft) or we're stumbling around each other like two children unable to make amends and bridge their understandings because one says their way is the way and another feels their way is only their way.

I'm not talking about ways, I'm talking about mechanics.

And I'm going to stop dancing now.  You make me tired too.  Because I can't do anything to help you see that while you are not wrong, you are also not completely right.  Never mind anything else pertaining to how you 'come off' judging me then deny doing so, and how you 'come off' negating my views then deny doing that as well.

Aw.. come on, when we first talked you said I was someone interesting to talk to and now you deny it.

What would you like me to do almighty wise Elros?  I shall bow down and kiss your toes if that'll help, I'll worship the ground you walk upon, and decree your way as THE WAY, while secretly living my own out of your view and influence.  Will that help my slavemaster?  IS that what you want?  Me to agree with you?  Say, 'Yes Min, You're absolutely right and I was blind and wrong all along because I did not hear, listen, see know, understand, or comprehend anything at all and was always too confused but you're so pure and proper in all you say that your way is THE WAY.  Hallujah I AM FREE, THANK YOU!'

Just quick questions, I tend to forget things I write because my mind is kinda a tornado of ideas. Did I ever tell you to do something? Did I not tell you the exact opposite of that? Did I not simply discuss how you explain concepts?

Cause I'll do that.  Feet don't gross me out, and the ground is fun to worship.  I am a hypocrite and go back on my own opinions often as they are usually changing as I go about my life.

How shall I please you this time?  Maybe I'll admit that I am capable of negation and judgment, or maybe I'll just show you what it means to be negated and judged?  OR maybe I'll just not care, or maybe I will.

I am ever pleased, no need to worry.

OR maybe who knows.  I don't but you sure seem to, so enlighten me Elros-Tar-Minyutar.  Tell me the Truth about my Reality and all that is wrong with it.  I await you.

Gladly.

You exist within a given order of which you are not exempt, so there are things which are common grounds of experience although it is very good to perceive that the experience of personal reality can greatly differ from one another.

I'm honestly not trying to discuss what you do, I'm only discussing the thought form within which we exist and I disagreed with little of what you said. Actually it's mainly been that you say there is no duality of polarity and that your thoughts hold no creative power. Know that some are heartbroken at the very idea that their thoughts hold the power of creating alternate realities, although that goes beyond what I have discussed so far since I discussed an indirect impact through time in these planes. It's just a matter of that all is interconnected, resonance through this interconnection and energy behind the thing. So what exactly do you disagree with here (since through all your words you simply didn't resonate with this). Are things not interconnected to you in a way that transcends space and time? Is because of this notion resonance not happening? Do you believe energy does nothing?

We are dancing thoughts and outside of thoughts lies the absence of thoughts, which is what I said underlies the thought of Love by referring it as the Void.

[Aion]

I fail to see what your point is, Min, as I do not see how interconnectedness necessitates agreement or harmony and if Void is the true state of things and the Love that is the Self is the only thing that fills that Void, then literally it is impossible for anyone to have an incorrect perception, only a distorted one, and everyone is distorted. On top of that, if the Void is the only measure of truth, then whatever one fills that Void with becomes truth and hence the Co-Creator element.

However, that means your whole attempt to tell TTP 'the truth' is completely moot and futile and if you already know that it is hard to surmise that you are not intentionally attempting to manipulate him emotionally in order to get a 'correct' view from him. Just sayin', it stinks of sorcery.

[Aion]

Ah, so you're just judging yourself through me.

Alrighty, good enough for me.

I am not doing any judgment, I am trying to make you aware of something.

Just like when you said that light hurts, you have been the one judging youself with light.

Ah, so you're just negating me then.  Very good, sir.

I think a lot of people end up depressed; but I can't say if you specifically were extremely depressed in the past. Do you feel like you have / have had no self worth?

IMO, you should be what you want to be, not what you think you should be.

I'm in the middle of "The Nature of Personal Reality" (Seth) and it rang true when he specifically talks about depression being equated with the feeling of powerlessness, of not being able to change your reality/consciousness and being at the mercy of events outside of you.

Of course, what Seth teaches is that reality is the product of your conscious and unconscious beliefs, so it's exactly the opposite - we aren't at the mercy of events outside of us, we are at the mercy of ourselves.

I usually associate feelings of depression and low self-worth with an indigo blockage. It's like when plenum talked about how sometimes the colors are extra ON, and then they turn back off.

I think the typical pattern is that we get unblocked for a while, everything is gravy, and then we get an "echo" of the old reality that we don't want to be in, which causes us to doubt ourselves again, which leads to the indigo ray being blocked again. OR, we begin to see reality reflect our changes in consciousness, and that can get frightening, all the responsibility! So we shut it back down. This is where Tanner's quote is apt.

The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to manifestations which appear as unworthiness. This is that of which you spoke. As you can see, this is but one of many distortions due to the several points of energy influx into the mind/body/spirit complex. The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth.

We are all worthy. We are all the Creator. We just let our thoughts get in the way of experiencing that all the time.

It was less responsibility being an issue, extremely more-so I became very, very tired.  To the point I had trouble just getting out of bed from sleepiness.  It was like I was hit with constant fatigue, I'm not one to push myself, when I need to rest, I need to rest.  Few things will change that.

Have any one of you ever spent several months being in as many ways you can actually intrinsically or judicially or...physically of Service to Others?  Where you trained your mind to have no ill will, to truly see God and to ennact love to All Beings before you?  Where toxicity was met with resolute peace, and anger or cruelty met with unwavering kindness.  To be in love with people for who they are no matter who or what they show or how or why?

The only responsibility I had in regards to pouring love into the reality, was To Love Unconditionally, to Feel Truly Love for AnOther.  That made my Reality, Love itself in 3D form.

The trouble came with weariness, not worrisome thoughts, and I consider that me having been burned out. A.

B, I was doing a lot of work in Consciousness (relatively speaking) in those months, all, completely, alone.

That's...unrecommended.

Has anyone here ever done as I?  If not I still think you can understand my position at the time.  All alone, constantly giving all I got, only to see that those I helped remain sad and miserable as I grew happier and happier.  I could not help anyone to be happy in any lasting meaningful way.  Only Myself, and I was, until I wanted so badly to share those feelings of bliss and joy, to no avail even remotely, unable to even scratch the surface.  Unscathed.  People suffer.

And I can't stop or help it.

That was all I wanted, I thought changing my reality would also help others.  It was temporary, essentially meaningless.  And that saddened me.  And it made me weary.  Until I just couldn't deal with it anymore.  It's not the responsibility, its the sorrow and hope that made me push myself so hard I burnt out.

All I ever wanted was to make people happy, and time and time again, I see I am incapable of doing such in a meaningful fulfilling nontemporary way.  So much so, I gave up.

Me admitting my faults.  Not beating myself up.  I wish I was still physically perfect and infinite.  I acted like it and wrecked myself.

You have a good heart and I think you might be surprised how far that can go. It may seem like your efforts were in vain but I think the truth is that even if those people aren't aware of it you were a part of their lives and will forever have done what was good in your heart and to humans this may not seem like much but the Earth knows, the memory of our collective knows and as the time comes where we will be able to share on a deeper level all will be able to see the shining marks of your efforts, even after they have stopped. That kind of effort doesn't ever go away for it is the work of the Universe itself.

I tell you this because I can see it there, I can see your light and though it has retreated to some degree it burns no less bright.

[Minyatur]

I fail to see what your point is, Min, as I do not see how interconnectedness necessitates agreement or harmony

What I meant to say is that interconnectedness allows energy transfers through resonance. That thinking of something/someone creates a focus on that something/someone.

This was in response to his idea that polarity changes things only for himself and not outside himself. While I can understand why one can think that, I still believe this to be something one can do without being awareness of the causes and effects it creates and I am fully open to be told otherwise.

and if Void is the true state of things and the Love that is the Self is the only thing that fills that Void, then literally it is impossible for anyone to have an incorrect perception, only a distorted one, and everyone is distorted. On top of that, if the Void is the only measure of truth, then whatever one fills that Void with becomes truth and hence the Co-Creator element.

Well yeah, I've never told him he was incorrect much. Except the idea that his thoughts hold no creative power (stated above) and his interpretation of how Ra tried to share polarity. He seems to be the only person on this forum I've seen to have interpreted it as he did and accused the forum community of not understanding this concept, so to me he opened himself to be done the same. Just that I may be more easy going and distatched in doing these things.

Also on polarity, I did not disagree with any of his experience of it nor what he makes of it. Just tried to say it's a feedback system of experience which at some level exists as a pure duality. We also experience many other dualities but we have not spoke of those. I did speak many times of the relativeness of polarity.

However, that means your whole attempt to tell TTP 'the truth' is completely moot and futile and if you already know that it is hard to surmise that you are not intentionally attempting to manipulate him emotionally in order to get a 'correct' view from him. Just sayin', it stinks of sorcery.

y ppl no like a gemini ascendant leo with a moon in scorpio

I don't think it's moot and futile unless you want to consider all things as such. I'm still trying to use the opportunity to distill things and learn.

[Aion]

I fail to see what your point is, Min, as I do not see how interconnectedness necessitates agreement or harmony

What I meant to say is that interconnectedness allows energy transfers through resonance. That thinking of something/someone creates a focus on that something/someone.

This was in response to his idea that polarity changes things only for himself and not outside himself. While I can understand why one can think that, I still believe this to be something one can do without being awareness of the causes and effects it creates and I am fully open to be told otherwise.

and if Void is the true state of things and the Love that is the Self is the only thing that fills that Void, then literally it is impossible for anyone to have an incorrect perception, only a distorted one, and everyone is distorted. On top of that, if the Void is the only measure of truth, then whatever one fills that Void with becomes truth and hence the Co-Creator element.

Well yeah, I've never told him he was incorrect much. Except the idea that his thoughts hold no creative power (stated above) and his interpretation of how Ra tried to share polarity. He seems to be the only person on this forum I've seen to have interpreted it as he did and accused the forum community of not understanding this concept, so to me he opened himself to be done the same. Just that I may be more easy going and distatched in doing these things.

Also on polarity, I did not disagree with any of his experience of it nor what he makes of it. Just tried to say it's a feedback system of experience which at some level exists as a pure duality. We also experience many other dualities but we have not spoke of those. I did speak many times of the relativeness of polarity.

However, that means your whole attempt to tell TTP 'the truth' is completely moot and futile and if you already know that it is hard to surmise that you are not intentionally attempting to manipulate him emotionally in order to get a 'correct' view from him. Just sayin', it stinks of sorcery.

y ppl no like a gemini ascendant leo with a moon in scorpio

I don't think it's moot and futile unless you want to consider all things as such. I'm still trying to use the opportunity to distill things and learn.

Can't learn for an other self, though.

Very sly, but I disagree with your attempt to nullify my thought by your appeal to Infinity. It doesn't change the fact that you are contradicting yourself and using Infinity to justify it.

You talk about the Void in one sense and then in another you say 'this is like this' and 'that is like that', as though your interpretations are naturally correct, but they are not necessarily so. I know you say they're not the answers for everyone, but then you follow on to give absolute expressions so maybe you just don't notice the contradiction?

[Minyatur]

Can't learn for an other self, though.

Very sly, but I disagree with your attempt to nullify my thought by your appeal to Infinity. It doesn't change the fact that you are contradicting yourself and using Infinity to justify it.

You talk about the Void in one sense and then in another you say 'this is like this' and 'that is like that', as though your interpretations are naturally correct, but they are not necessarily so.

Well perhaps to talk about it while using contradicting ideas is my current way of exploring ideas and raffining my interpretations.

I did state before that it makes no sense to me that "We are" and that I am not satisfied with "We cannot not be". So the Void is still something I have to work in my mind.

[Jade]

Have any one of you ever spent several months being in as many ways you can actually intrinsically or judicially or...physically of Service to Others?  Where you trained your mind to have no ill will, to truly see God and to ennact love to All Beings before you?  Where toxicity was met with resolute peace, and anger or cruelty met with unwavering kindness.  To be in love with people for who they are no matter who or what they show or how or why?

The only responsibility I had in regards to pouring love into the reality, was To Love Unconditionally, to Feel Truly Love for AnOther.  That made my Reality, Love itself in 3D form.

The trouble came with weariness, not worrisome thoughts, and I consider that me having been burned out. A.

B, I was doing a lot of work in Consciousness (relatively speaking) in those months, all, completely, alone.

Yes, I have been through what you did. Here's what happened:

You opened your heart chakra, which was awesome, but then you got very gung-ho about serving others, which led to you sitting in the heart chakra without moving the energy upwards - this is the martyr vibration. This will exhaust you, and will eventually drain you empty. This is why it's important to consciously start balancing.

Where you went wrong is you forgot about yourself. STO to the exclusion of the self is 4th density martyr vibrations. STO with a balance of STS to preserve the self is the higher, indigo ray vibrations. The difference in actions between a green ray entity and an indigo ray entity are not much - both desire and will give generously to others. But the blue-ray is the wisdom of experience and recognition of patterns and sequences that allow one to recognize their worth as one to be served as well.

Let me use an example of my real life. Many years ago, my grandma had several falls which led to her needing someone with her round the clock to help while she healed. My husband and I moved in with her, and all in all it was a very stressful time - not much help from the rest of my family (while they still told me I wasn't helping enough), and I continually selflessly threw myself in the ring if anything was needed. I felt under-appreciated in general (by the rest of my family, not my grandma or husband), and I was very ill, taking lots of Xanax but still had extremely high blood pressure and anxious nausea every day. I was happy to take care of my grandma but it was at my own expense.

Now today, if I were in the same situation with this current incarnation of my brain, I would take the same actions, but my thought processes surrounding them would be different. I wouldn't feel so obligated by my service, but I would be excited for the opportunity. I wouldn't need outside validation from others, because I recognize the inherent worth of myself and my solitary actions. I would be more confident and willing to ask others for help, instead of just assuming that I'm the only one willing to do it. And this, in turn, the higher energies, recognizing that they come from an infinite source, will allow me more energy before I feel expended, because I am using it more wisely. I'm still performing the same actions, but I'm spending a lot less energy on anxious thought processes, primarily, and instead taking action to make changes that I feel need to be resolved, instead of letting them drain me.

So it seems to me now, what you are trying to do and embrace, is to be of service to others without focusing on just doing nice things for others, and with more of an emphasis on being yourself and acting on your true emotions. This is far more balanced than an entity that is martyring itself, and far more true to service. If I thought that you genuinely weren't service to others, I probably wouldn't spend this much effort talking to you, because it would fall on deaf ears. But you talk so fondly of the time when you had your heart totally open, because it is a delightful experience to not have animosity towards people, and something worth working towards, imo. That's why I share my experiences and my thought processes I have used to arrive at the conclusions I have, because that's really all I can do is share, because I feel as if I've had some success. I think Min is doing the same as do I think you are, Van. We are all just sharing pieces of ourselves with each other. I guess in this context it is good to focus on not communicating to others that we think they are wrong - because your point is a very good one, Van, that invalidation of one's feelings is not a desirable experience. All feelings and perceptions are valid. It's just important to work on being more inclusive as our beliefs and feelings go, instead of excluding the ones of others from our reality.

[Parsons]

I will reinforce what Jade just said with an observation. I've seen many people toggle back and forth between trying to be their ideal of STO, to being their ideal of STS or (incidentally) without polarity. Everyone seems to do that a few times,  but eventually they rubber-band into the demeanor of who they are (which is somewhere on the STO side of the middle). That stage seems to be when the indigo center starts to open. It seems like if only the green and/or blue ray centers are opened, the entity goes to extremes and is imbalanced.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Jade, while I agree majorly with you...I must tell you its not a fair external judgment to say I didn't go beyond Green Ray in activation back then.  I did crystallize my indigo ray, but by the time I did I did enter into the martyr complex which being unable to get back to where I was (an activated kundalini indigo ray is a very, very nice place to be) the natural human judgments began.

I was very crystallized in blue ray, and my Green Ray's nested Pink Ray had been so opened, I could see incoming catalyst long before it confronted me, I was skirting The Razors Edge of Time, picking and choosing my path, which time line to go down you could say, rather than just fumbling forward.  When that stopped soon after, the powerlessness feeling to come was not pretty.

I have thought often, that I should try again, try again, try to polarize again, try to raise kundalini again.  Try, try.

But I hurt and am tired.  I don't want to do it alone...And so...I'm not, not until I have a friend I can meditate weekly with...I can talk with about all of these things.  Do yoga with and just attempt to be polarized with.

This truly is not lone wolf work in 3D, even if you're a loner like I...The effects that follow can shake even your own foundation, and at those times without some support or someone to lean on, there's a chance of a falling down collapse.  Crashing into the self.  Sucks.  Does not feel good.

I am technically of STO but for the sake of avoiding the hellish reality (in my view) that Ra posits, I am of my own Angle, Tune, my own Variation.  Where catalyst is not suffering, it is becoming aware.  Where pain beyond a point is not catalyst but cruelty devoid of lessons or wisdom.  And where fairness and harmony is the natural state of Life On Earth, and Humanity makes it unfair and unnatural, collective imbalances already known and attempted to be offered a different way to be.

I Think everything will be okay, even if I don't graduate, I wouldn't mind another life...Maybe I'll make it not so lonely that/this time.

Parsons, in my personal experience you're right.  Indigo brings in a very fine intuitive wisdom that is needed for higher work.  Without it, extremes due occur.

By god I look back and still scare myself.  If I had violent tendencies I would've been a true danger to others...I thank my soul for formulating me as a gentle giant...

I couldn't bear to actually do the many horrible things my mind conjures up...  I often now a days wish I could stop the violent thoughts, but instead I accept them, and just let them play out then sigh and move on.

Hopefully, they'll dissipate, like a mental puberty coming then leaving.

Min, I'm sorry, I have no idea what to say to you.  Thank you regardless.

Aion, its weird because where there was once emptiness in my chest, there's a weight now.  And I'd describe it as burning...  Good use of words.....thank you, I'll take that to heart.  As well as what you've said Jade, and Parsons.  Things to truly consider about.