Transexualism, Polarity, and How does this work?

[Aion]

What do you mean exactly by shifting between the energies? Do you mean identifying with being both a male and a female?

Why exactly does one need to accept multiple gender roles in order to be balanced in masculine and feminine energy? Again, I feel like 'male and female' are being mixed with 'masculine and feminine'. Why does acceptance of one constitute rejection of the other? Moreso, why should anyone feel like they are 'less evolved' if they feel they are only a man or only a woman?

I admit, I think it's just 'pop spirituality', where there's this idea of 'perfect balance' where everyone needs to be open to everything or they are imbalanced. I know that's not what you mean, but it is implied by your suggestions.

That being said, I can perceive female identities in myself, but I am a 'man' as far as it goes. Not because I reject being a woman, but because it just makes simple goddamn sense. I think humans have become too caught up in the mind, too attached to the imagination and the ways in which we can imagine ourselves.

This whole battle of identities in society is the fight between desires and reality.

[Jade]

By shifting between the energies, I mean that one should be comfortable with both the male and female energies within, or else, inherently, they are rejecting the other. If one over-identifies with one gender's roles, it thereby implies an imbalance in the yellow ray because gender identity itself is especially polarizing for a reason. I specifically am referring to the roles of gender as defined by society - not necessarily just the experience of masculine and feminine energies. If someone says, "I'm a girl, so I can't like (insert x "manly" thing)" or "I'm a man, I don't have feelings" - these are the identities that I am talking about. I'm not talking about a woman enjoying buying shoes and collecting purses, I'm talking about a women refusing to indulge in anything that she would define as "not womanly" (or vice versa). I think the problem begins when we start saying "This is for men, this is for women" and continuing to separate things from there - which is something society/advertising/media/etc does in force. When people buy into that, it creates blockage/imbalance, because it further separates us.

Maybe my pop spirituality perspective is being influenced because I'm currently reading Seth Speaks. There is at least a full chapter on balancing the anima/animus so that one doesn't become too attached to the gender of their current incarnation (or get stuck on a previous one). I don't think there's a general "perfect balance", I think obviously we all have blockages. Everything is a distortion of perfect balance. It's just important to be aware of what is causing the blockages, if you can be. It's my personal opinion that if one gets overly attached to the societal defined gender roles of one sex, that there is likely a yellow-ray blockage (and it's probably deeply rooted). I'm not pointing fingers at anyone even, I find most people here pretty androgynous. But I think if we take it to the extreme, say, a transsexual male who has total sex reassignment surgery and changes their physical appearance to be more "female" (long hair, makeup, breasts, female clothing) and feels like they can't go out in public without being "done up" in a feminine way, that it is definitely caused by a blockage and over-identification with a gender. But, I think the same can apply to cisgendered females who think that they can't let their face be seen in public without make up - I mean no offense to anyone who wears makeup, because I used to be the same way, but I think there is a rejection of self that causes one to identify with something outside of themselves to strongly (the face madeup as the only presentable face).

I don't think we disagree, Aion. I think we both think that people should decide for themselves who they want to be and how they want to express themselves. But I think it's really important to remove all the implanted ideas of who we want to be to really get to our true selves. The superficial gender roles as defined by society are not our true selves - but the analogue can definitely be found.

[Aion]

By shifting between the energies, I mean that one should be comfortable with both the male and female energies within, or else, inherently, they are rejecting the other. If one over-identifies with one gender's roles, it thereby implies an imbalance in the yellow ray because gender identity itself is especially polarizing for a reason. I specifically am referring to the roles of gender as defined by society - not necessarily just the experience of masculine and feminine energies. If someone says, "I'm a girl, so I can't like (insert x "manly" thing)" or "I'm a man, I don't have feelings" - these are the identities that I am talking about. I'm not talking about a woman enjoying buying shoes and collecting purses, I'm talking about a women refusing to indulge in anything that she would define as "not womanly" (or vice versa). I think the problem begins when we start saying "This is for men, this is for women" and continuing to separate things from there - which is something society/advertising/media/etc does in force. When people buy into that, it creates blockage/imbalance, because it further separates us.

Maybe my pop spirituality perspective is being influenced because I'm currently reading Seth Speaks. There is at least a full chapter on balancing the anima/animus so that one doesn't become too attached to the gender of their current incarnation (or get stuck on a previous one). I don't think there's a general "perfect balance", I think obviously we all have blockages. Everything is a distortion of perfect balance. It's just important to be aware of what is causing the blockages, if you can be. It's my personal opinion that if one gets overly attached to the societal defined gender roles of one sex, that there is likely a yellow-ray blockage (and it's probably deeply rooted). I'm not pointing fingers at anyone even, I find most people here pretty androgynous. But I think if we take it to the extreme, say, a transsexual male who has total sex reassignment surgery and changes their physical appearance to be more "female" (long hair, makeup, breasts, female clothing) and feels like they can't go out in public without being "done up" in a feminine way, that it is definitely caused by a blockage and over-identification with a gender. But, I think the same can apply to cisgendered females who think that they can't let their face be seen in public without make up - I mean no offense to anyone who wears makeup, because I used to be the same way, but I think there is a rejection of self that causes one to identify with something outside of themselves to strongly (the face madeup as the only presentable face).

I don't think we disagree, Aion. I think we both think that people should decide for themselves who they want to be and how they want to express themselves. But I think it's really important to remove all the implanted ideas of who we want to be to really get to our true selves. The superficial gender roles as defined by society are not our true selves - but the analogue can definitely be found.

That explains more clearly what you mean, thank you. I do agree, but I would ask, how can someone external be able to tell whether someone is doing something because they genuinely choose it and feel it is their true self or because they are 'caught up' in whatever thoughts have been influential to them? What is the difference there? Are any thoughts of ours really divorced from the collective?

[Jade]

I think that's entirely for the self to decide which thoughts belong to them. I think again, it goes back to Ra's basic balancing exercises:

The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

One must decide for themselves if there is something they are rejecting within their mind. I don't think there's any denying that during our development we learn to reject a lot of things. I don't think the "true self" rejects any part of itself. I think that's where we find the "influence" of an undesirable kind.

[Aion]

Ra does not say 'reject', they say 'disapprove', do you consider those the same thing?

It seems that by that thought you would also find the disapproval for all the things you approve of as well, yes?

[Minyatur]

In disagreements I see a bored Logos that plays with dolls It impersonates. Pleasures of reality... Also applies to agreements.

I am that which is formless with a strong balance of masculine energy and which has taken a form to it's likings. What am I? The Creator not doing nothing, good going Creator-me and Creator-not me who also not do nothing.

Thought form cookies for everyone!

[Minyatur]

My above post was meant to be initially an indirect disagreement with this statement.

I think humans have become too caught up in the mind, too attached to the imagination and the ways in which we can imagine ourselves.

Quite on the contrary I'd say when will humans finally seek and think beyond their all so small dream bubbles of awareness of reality.

Surrounded by what seems to be an infinite Creation, so little look at the stars in wonder and desire to understand. Among so many different kinds of humans, so little seek understanding of others and instead blindly reject what is unlike them, with for so many even a sense of disgust while at it.

Humans are oh so very manipulated into never expanding their awareness, keys are floating about everywhere but are burried into what acts as walls to the awareness.

Not saying this has no purpose but was clearly not the result of positive intents toward the human race.

[Turtle]

My above post was meant to be initially an indirect disagreement with this statement.

I think humans have become too caught up in the mind, too attached to the imagination and the ways in which we can imagine ourselves.

Quite on the contrary I'd say when will humans finally seek and think beyond their all so small dream bubbles of awareness of reality.

Surrounded by what seems to be an infinite Creation, so little look at the stars in wonder and desire to understand. Among so many different kinds of humans, so little seek understanding of others and instead blindly reject what is unlike them, with for so many even a sense of disgust while at it.

Humans are oh so very manipulated into never expanding their awareness, keys are floating about everywhere but are burried into what acts as walls to the awareness.

Not saying this has no purpose but was clearly not the result of positive intents toward the human race.

Very well said

[Jade]

Ra does not say 'reject', they say 'disapprove', do you consider those the same thing?

It seems that by that thought you would also find the disapproval for all the things you approve of as well, yes?

I think, in the context I was using, disapprove and reject would mean the same thing, reject being a slightly stronger word than disapprove.

And yes, per the balancing exercises - again, it's the balance. If I "approve" of something so much that I'm over-attached to the identity, that needs balanced, too. The balancing exercises are more about shedding attachments to identity so that one can become a purified channel to be a healer. It's not for everyone, of course, but I think anyone who's read the Ra material knows the the importance of "knowing the mind" in this way. I mean, Ra offers these steps for after one has already trained their mind to meditate with some regularity. The second step, after "the mind must be opened like a door, the key [being] silence", is "The polarities of your dimension must be internalized." To me, that means one must balance male/female, et al.

The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

[Aion]

My above post was meant to be initially an indirect disagreement with this statement.

I think humans have become too caught up in the mind, too attached to the imagination and the ways in which we can imagine ourselves.

Quite on the contrary I'd say when will humans finally seek and think beyond their all so small dream bubbles of awareness of reality.

Surrounded by what seems to be an infinite Creation, so little look at the stars in wonder and desire to understand. Among so many different kinds of humans, so little seek understanding of others and instead blindly reject what is unlike them, with for so many even a sense of disgust while at it.

Humans are oh so very manipulated into never expanding their awareness, keys are floating about everywhere but are burried into what acts as walls to the awareness.

Not saying this has no purpose but was clearly not the result of positive intents toward the human race.

Indeed and were humans to free themselves from the need to imagine themselves in certain ways they would find a much more open expanse of mind to explore. Cannot fill a cup that is already full.

[Aion]

Ra does not say 'reject', they say 'disapprove', do you consider those the same thing?

It seems that by that thought you would also find the disapproval for all the things you approve of as well, yes?

I think, in the context I was using, disapprove and reject would mean the same thing, reject being a slightly stronger word than disapprove.

And yes, per the balancing exercises - again, it's the balance. If I "approve" of something so much that I'm over-attached to the identity, that needs balanced, too. The balancing exercises are more about shedding attachments to identity so that one can become a purified channel to be a healer. It's not for everyone, of course, but I think anyone who's read the Ra material knows the the importance of "knowing the mind" in this way. I mean, Ra offers these steps for after one has already trained their mind to meditate with some regularity. The second step, after "the mind must be opened like a door, the key [being] silence", is "The polarities of your dimension must be internalized." To me, that means one must balance male/female, et al.

The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

So when you say balance, do you mean some kind of equality of awareness of ideas?

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I can fill an already full cup Aion. Try it with vinegar and oil. After a while the contents of the cup change completely, I've filled an full cup.

[Aion]

I can fill an already full cup Aion.  Try it with vinegar and oil.  After a while the contents of the cup change completely, I've filled an full cup.

Then you are right back where you started.

[Jade]

Ra does not say 'reject', they say 'disapprove', do you consider those the same thing?

It seems that by that thought you would also find the disapproval for all the things you approve of as well, yes?

I think, in the context I was using, disapprove and reject would mean the same thing, reject being a slightly stronger word than disapprove.

And yes, per the balancing exercises - again, it's the balance. If I "approve" of something so much that I'm over-attached to the identity, that needs balanced, too. The balancing exercises are more about shedding attachments to identity so that one can become a purified channel to be a healer. It's not for everyone, of course, but I think anyone who's read the Ra material knows the the importance of "knowing the mind" in this way. I mean, Ra offers these steps for after one has already trained their mind to meditate with some regularity. The second step, after "the mind must be opened like a door, the key [being] silence", is "The polarities of your dimension must be internalized." To me, that means one must balance male/female, et al.

The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

So when you say balance, do you mean some kind of equality of awareness of ideas?

I guess yes, in this context. Equality of awareness of opposing ideas/concepts/polarities and acceptance of all as valid.

The third discipline of the mind is a repetition of the first but with the gaze outward towards the fellow entities that it meets. In each entity there exists completeness. Thus, the ability to understand each balance is necessary. When you view patience, you are responsible for mirroring in your mental understanding, patience/impatience. When you view impatience, it is necessary for your mental configuration of understanding to be impatience/patience. We use this as a simple example. Most configurations of mind have many facets, and understanding of either self polarities, or what you would call other-self polarities, can and must be understood as subtle work

[Aion]

Ra does not say 'reject', they say 'disapprove', do you consider those the same thing?

It seems that by that thought you would also find the disapproval for all the things you approve of as well, yes?

I think, in the context I was using, disapprove and reject would mean the same thing, reject being a slightly stronger word than disapprove.

And yes, per the balancing exercises - again, it's the balance. If I "approve" of something so much that I'm over-attached to the identity, that needs balanced, too. The balancing exercises are more about shedding attachments to identity so that one can become a purified channel to be a healer. It's not for everyone, of course, but I think anyone who's read the Ra material knows the the importance of "knowing the mind" in this way. I mean, Ra offers these steps for after one has already trained their mind to meditate with some regularity. The second step, after "the mind must be opened like a door, the key [being] silence", is "The polarities of your dimension must be internalized." To me, that means one must balance male/female, et al.

The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

So when you say balance, do you mean some kind of equality of awareness of ideas?

I guess yes, in this context. Equality of awareness of opposing ideas/concepts/polarities and acceptance of all as valid.

The third discipline of the mind is a repetition of the first but with the gaze outward towards the fellow entities that it meets. In each entity there exists completeness. Thus, the ability to understand each balance is necessary. When you view patience, you are responsible for mirroring in your mental understanding, patience/impatience. When you view impatience, it is necessary for your mental configuration of understanding to be impatience/patience. We use this as a simple example. Most configurations of mind have many facets, and understanding of either self polarities, or what you would call other-self polarities, can and must be understood as subtle work

Theoretically as one balances ideas they should lose their 'charge' in the mind and emotions and so fall silent. Would you agree that recurring thoughts and repetitive ideas are thoughts which hold a charge to be balanced?

[Jade]

That interpretation would make sense. I believe one 'balances' themselves to become a purer channel of creative energy, which requires stepping aside from one's belief systems, and residing in the now moment. Thoughts are what removes us from the "now" moment in time.

[Aion]

How do they do that?

[Jade]

How do thoughts remove us from the now moment? Well I'm not sure I can put that process into words adequately, sorry. It's something I learned while tripping shrooms so it's more of one of those deep realizations and not something I've pondered consciously.

A thought is a judgement on the moment. If someone is talking to you, you can either hear to what they say and absorb it in the moment, or you can think about what they are saying, how you're going to respond, etc, and remove yourself out of the moment. As soon as you stop being and you start thinking, you are much less in the moment.

If we think of the mind/body/spirit complex as the instrument for the Creator the play, most of our own thoughts would detune us. No thoughts make us a purer instrument so that we can be purer channels for the Creative energy to work through us. This is what I believe is the importance of balancing the self, accepting everything, and removing the process of judgement (thought) - so we can be puppets for the Infinite One.

Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

[Aion]

So it seems you associate 'purity' with receptivity?

I can't say I really agree with your assessment of the nature of thought, but I have seen similar suggestions before. You think our thoughts are not also sourced in the Creator? When you focus on something, even listening, is that not a manner of thought? Maybe we perceive thought to be different. I do not believe all thoughts are 'content' in the mind, some thoughts are silent.

[octavia]

Just want to say this is a topic I am interested in as well. I considered making a thread about it a few months back but decided against it for fear that I would be met with criticism because it is not always easy for others to accept those who are transgender, which I understand and am not attempting to judge.

All I will say for the time being is that I am very interested in any more data (I believe I have seen everything from L/L Research concerning the subjects) from channeled material on the topic of being homosexual and/or transgender, and that I am interested in whichever direction this thread goes.

[earth_spirit]

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[spero]

interesting post earth_spirit

concern for trans-identifying individuals is justified in the imperfect world/societies we occupy but shouldnt be used as crutch to curb their self expression in the interest of safety. in such circumstances i'd imagine it's society that needs to change.

i know this may sound like a bit of an abstract detour but if u bear with me for a sec i think you'll understand where im going. If u think of democratic processes, where majority rules, the majority is often well within its power to restrict, criminalise or classify the actions of the few which deviate from the majority as abnormal, wrong or perverse. in some societies it may impose the harshest of punishments of mutilation, imprisonment or death. While i understand on a personal level it is your belief and choice to accept another persons gender expression, i would argue on a societal level it is something which should be safegaurded and afforded basic levels of rights and protection.

It may then seem like societal law intrudes into the personal arena of choice and freedom of opinion but some things cannot be allowed to occur just because the majority have a problem with it. abortion in the states may be something a large percentage of christian americans disagree with, but as a fundamental medical service it should be safegaurded. and so on with things like marriage equality, interracial marriages, apartheid, slavery, voting rights and every other issue that was ever controversial and which could have been left to the individual level to decided but which is codified by governmental bodies and laws to safeguard those rights we consider fundamental. i would classify the right to be able to choose a gender identity and have that choice respected, regardless of gentialia, chromosomes, brain structure etc to be such a right.

Lastly, there was an interesting article i read the other day that highlighted that the condition of being or identifying as trans does not always need to be associated with a feeling of dysmorphia. it may be many peoples experience, but it is possible to identify as trans without it or the desire to alter oneself, or pursue an avenue of treatment be it conventional or surgical.

[earth_spirit]

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[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Lastly, there was an interesting article i read the other day that highlighted that the condition of being or identifying as trans does not always need to be associated with a feeling of dysmorphia. it may be many peoples experience, but it is possible to identify as trans without it or the desire to alter oneself, or pursue an avenue of treatment be it conventional or surgical.

I was recently told in order to even identify as a transgender I need to desire to be the opposite sex.  I disagreed, and that was that ._.

In retrospect, the bolded fits me like a glove.  I'm comfortable with my body but interacting outwardly with people.  I've always melded much better with women, and for whatever reason, many have found me to be blurry among the lines loooong before I was ever aware of it.  I had people calling me gay back in sophomore year...As early as before I was even 10 from kids on my own neighborhood who never liked me, for reasons I to this day do not know.  I got bullied hardcore by guys.  Girls were nice to me.  I always got along with women, not so much men, I've been raised since age 13 with only my mom, having only her perspective to reflect unconsciously during puberty.

I am more than sure this 'orientation' was preincarnational by just the evidence of occurrences.  This is my personal sureness to myself.  I was born male, with feminine qualities.  In this society, that makes me gay, trans, or they expect me to be a crossdresser or...I don't even know the full extend of discrimination, I consider myself a closet transgender in that I see a society not ready around me, why the hell would I throw myself to the fire trying to put it out when I'm a sensitize type as it is, easily hurt.

Speaking of Crossdressing, I never understood it for myself personally.  With that said, I understand the appeal, I was dared at a small high school party with my group of stoner juggalo pals to try on a skirt for shits-n-giggles in Junior year.  I am embarrassed to admit it was incredibly comfortable...And the only time I've ever wore clothes not meant for men lol
But, I, being a Being of comfort...Absolutely would consider it if it were socially acceptable and not viewed as perverted and disgusting.  So much so I made it clear to my pregnant girlfriend when I had one that if our son ever wanted to do something like go to school in a skirt or something along those lines, I'd be on his side and dress with him.
Then again I have an entire issue with the clothing industry that isn't related to this topic, but can be sub-related to the sexual perpetuation of fe/male separation.  Right down to Lingerie, which is of itself not an issue, but of which I have pointed out in another thread almost a year ago from now, is made for little girls, which is frankly disturbing and socially an indicator of how screwy our society is at un-apologetically targeting and assaulting children and people as needing to conform to their standards or else they're a freak.

Digressing...  Since I have a feeling this post will be long.

I'm glad you made the post you did E_s, as well as the responses following!

Firstly, I remember hearing that B4 has had issues with IP Addresses from Turkey, you should PM Steve or another Admin and let them know, see if they can do anything about it.

Secondly, how does viewing a preference as roleplaying (I understand it in a fictional context, let me know if you meant it differently) not equate to writing it off against a person who feels it is more than a role they are playing but who and how they are?

What concerns me is the underlying reasons as to why a man would pretend to be a woman, be it biological (hormonal imbalances, brain structure, chromosome abnormalities etc.), psychological (low opinion of own biological sex, envy, becoming that which you desire, narcissism) or metaphysical (karmic patterns, balancing, eroding the well established yet limiting gender norms, harbingers of a 4th density environment).

How would you feel if metaphysically speaking it was a preincarnational choice to be a certain way and not view it as something to overcome but to absorb and distill into its more pure expressions in a balanced and appropriate way?  I don't view this as eroding societal norms, I see it as Evolution, Society is the one who has the burden to adapt, not Evolution, Evolution is by its very being always adapting.  Society believes itself stone and indestructible even as it corrodes and crumbles sometimes.  I think the gender norms are a dying society trying to desperately force people to remain separate instead of realizing gender wise, there is no difference beyond manifested energies and metaphysical transfers (of which we have no idea how they work when one becomes transgender, not homosexual but actual transgender or transsexual).  As Ra said, we should view each male as female and vice versa, each female as male.

How do we reconcile this against someone who is male and female?  Are they the next biological step (Star Trek TNG has an episode where a race of aliens became androgynous from male and female) or is it something new to accept?

It's metaphysically speaking a very pitch black room with few lights being present to shed awareness of the 'actuals' of what it means metaphysically to be transgender.  We don't know, how can we judge it?

When I see a "trans-woman", I feel no contempt, no disgust, but curiosity and concern. Not only for any possible "internal" issues but external ones as well, such as attracting violence. Anohter "external issue" worth mentioning is the echo-chamber of some trans communities, specifically how they refuse to believe that gender dysphoria can be alleviated by psychological treatment and recommend that all such individuals should transition (get mutilated) for their own good, even for cases where conventional treatment is effective.

I can highly appreciate the concern involved, it's my opinion that energy alone helps raise awareness and protection for those individuals, as in to say, caring for them helps their guides steer them clear of unnecessary brutal experiences.
Is it truly an issue to you to identify a certain way that doesn't fit the norm?

As for the Echo-Chamber, I avoid all of those communities profusely.  I haven't the proper mental configuration right now to properly explain the hypocrisy spiritually that I personally perceive except to say, just as extremist muslims bomb people, it's not fair to clump a portion of Islam as terrorism.  Similarly, just as some extreme trans-individuals desire to tell people how to be, it's not fair to clump a portion of transgender or transsexual people as desiring the same things.  We can talk about the extremes but in this otherwise not so well mapped territory it might be better to bring them up to figure out once we have more of a clue as to how transexualism even works metaphysically and biological/mentally.

I stick to my Free Will belief, as compleximacatedvoluted it is (LOL) I can say if any transgender individual looked at me and told me to go through hormone therapy and to get a vagina and breasts attached to me.  I'd probably laugh at them, thinking they were being sarcastic or joking, and then I'd continue laughing when they tell me they're being serious.
And then I'd probably just leave it at, society doesn't want me to change, you're telling me I HAVE to change, I have a better idea.
Leave.  Me.  Alone.
I have no time in my life for such madness, it isn't my place to tell them they're wrong, but to show them.  Its up to them, to get a clue.

A man may choose to call himself a woman, that is his choice. I might buy into his interpretation of reality at the cost of some cognitive dissonance, or not. That is my choice. Both choices are to be respected. A trans-woman who calls people "bigots" for not buying into his "gender expression" (a completely abstract concept) is demonstrating narcissism.

I didn't know Gender Expression was abstract, I thought it somewhat normal.  But I do agree to an extent though not 100%.
Then again, I ask you to empathize with these individuals despite their...Incredulity, even if you don't show it externally (as I demonstrated I wouldn't), the energy and the thought is what matters to me.

If I lived in a society and outwardly expressed myself as the way I felt and continually was bludgeoned for it, I too would become narcissistic, cold and highly defensive.  You need to remember that these are still human beings, who are discriminated against strongly.  I can't compare it to racism, but I can compare it to some kind of 'ism'.  Albeit not sexism, but more...Choice-ism...  I'd call people attacking me for my choice bigots too.  Just like someone attacking a women for being women is a bigot, or attacking a black person cause he's black.  Bigotry is a strong word though, I'd rather not use it at all.

Why do you see an issue with someone becoming closed-off and lashing out against those who forced them shut?

One thing I don't appreciate about "trans-woman" is when they transform themselves into a complete caricature of "femininity"; grow long hair, wear lipstick, dresses, skirts, stockings, heels, whatnot. I'm not one to judge but nevertheless am inclined to see this as.. unhealthy to say the least. It is almost as if their understanding of being "female" is completely superficial and limited to whatever is culturally acceptable behavior for women. It's ironic when these allegedly non-conforming people end up reinforcing the petty gender norms of whatever oppressive culture they inhabit.

I pray you never stumble upon sissy genre porn LOL...  Anyways!  I appreciate highly, greatly you pointing this aspect out!!!
This has bothered me but for the exact opposite reason!  I blame society for this, not the individuals.  They have to conform to be accepted, otherwise they're freaks and nothing more.  A man trying to be a woman but not acting womanly?  FREAK!  A woman being a man but not being Manly???  WHAT??!

I ask you to step back and approach this view at the opposite angle.  How are these trans individuals supposed to be when society assaults them for being anything less than what it tells them they're supposed to be like in respect to how they feel?  Despite this, and I digress, I'll agree with you, specifically for those individuals, I highly doubt they all want to go through such extremes to just feel normal and accepted.  It is probably bothersome to some of them that they see girls without makeup in sweatshirts and sweatpants, and they can't match that because they don't appear it enough to 'get away' with it.  Fact is, I"m sad they have to try and get away with it at all.

Female and Male differentiation might sound proper and normal, but I go back to what Ra said regards seeing male and female as female and male respectively.  Evolutionarily, and long run, these energies of Male and Female come from the same place, in time they will reconcile.  If this is in 4D then it's time.  If not. Then we bear witness to the beginning of positive change.  It's no wonder such negativity is drawn to these areas to debilitate their progress.

I think you should question why society says women need to be that way as well.  This is an issue not just to trans individuals, but towards some women too.

Actually, let me put it this way, if society wasn't so stringent on there being proper male and female norms and roles, would transexualism even be a problem?  Who is really the issue here?  Is anyone an issue or are we just in the midst of change?

Who is to say what kind of clothing or behavior is "feminine"? Are heels, stockings and skirts "feminine"? Such were proudly worn by men at some point in history. Is it "feminine" to be compassionate, nurturing, giving and submissive? Men can be extremely nurturing and submissive when Love is flowing in their hearts.

As for "masculine" / "feminine" archetypes, I have no idea what exactly you mean by that. It sounds like symbolism a channeled entity would use to convey a message.

I see you comprehend how each sex can engender the other.  I just ponder where you think those energies of Male and Female come from if not the Universe itself.  Sex wasn't born on Earth.  Male and Female wasn't born in this Solar System.  I say Archetype because people treat them like they're as such.  Archetypes of Society.  I'd agree as a pure Archetype there isn't Male and Female, but a single energy which is the Archetype of Male and Female.  I think this differs from my feelings at the beginning of this thread.

I find it funny you deem male and female abstract terms universally speaking.

By that context of nothing in the universe being 'universal', everything is Abstract.  So, if Male and Female are Positive and Negative, how are they not Universal?  I strongly disagree with the belief in these as being abstract on this Planet.  I further disagree that the male and female energies are abstraction beyond the usual all is one thus everything is abstract and plain simultaneously.  You sort of hit your own logic with your reference to positive/negative as being male/female as this makes those energies universal, regardless of being sub-creations of a less distorted energy (pos/neg), using your understanding as I'm perceiving it of sexual energy.  That being that male and female are further distortions stemming from positive and negative.

To conclude, since I've been putting off helping my Mom to make this post since I've got it in the forefront of my thoughts (vs won't after she's done with me...).

I think Spero listed basically my feelings.  In the longterm I hope Society sheds its closedmindedness, and following it those who are negatively or 'sufferingly' effected can transition to a more openminded state of being towards themselves and others too.  Basic protections and such aside, I hope Society as a whole evolves beyond this archaic Justice System and begins cultivating in its people a general overall respect for the Value of Life and the Value of Choice, in respect to Others and Self.

Thank you for taking the time to respond guys!

[earth_spirit]

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[The_Tired_Philosopher]

E_s I think we're more familiar than I realized!

I'm misunderstanding your views I think, now that you've clarified I realize now I was making something out of MY misunderstandings for your opinions.

I speak only for myself in terms of this orientation since it appears I am...Still a minority upon even a minority known as Transgender as it seems I maintain my spirituality towards all despite the same not being reflected back at me socially versus a more socially ingrained individual who is transgendered.

I've very clearly rejected society on an Orange Ray level as Ra said would happen to many as 4D energies permeate.  Yet I do not feel it is an imbalance until I view it as such, it is otherwise, just a progression of myself.

I don't view anything as male or female cosmologically speaking, I mean I comprehend the Sun is said to be male energy and the moon female energy, but this isn't how I mean as it doesn't accurately reflect my current understanding anymore.  Just more that they exist universally, not so much that everything is imbued with such energy universally.

I don't view you as a bigot at all even with the views you've provided!  You are genuine and coming from a place of love in your worries for these people.  I think our only difference/disagreement on this subject is that I believe there is a context that allows for Transgender to be a 'natural' occurrence, whereas many deem it is a distortion or bending/twisting of the sexes and thus unnatural completely.  I'm not saying this is your view at all, but I feel you find this orientation unnatural.  Please correct me on this if I'm wrong!

I think Humanity was designed to be these ways as per the genetic experimentations upon our species and the various cosmic interferences potentially in play...  An example, though bad, is the Saturn of Council putting Lucifer in charge over Yahweh (as per the Hidden Hand ATS Forum Dialogue, which doesn't match up with the Ra Material), or the Confederation manipulating our genes for their own reasons regardless of their intent.

Humanity probably, had it been allowed to progress without the Universe going against itself's non-interference/free will/confusion aspects we probably would not be anything like how we are to this day.  How much of our history is destruction because we were interfered with before we were ready?

If this were the Star Trek Universe, and the Federation were the Confederation, our species would be considered heavily infringed upon due to various involvements with our evolutionary progression, apparently all the way back to before we were even physically present on the planet for some of us, which by now has probably transferred over through normal reproduction across our entire species.

I don't think it's fair to Humanity to judge us for the way we are, we're the one's who deserve love, forgiveness, and kindness.  We've been manipulated from the basest of roots since the beginning of our walk upon this planet.  Disclosure talks alone come to my mind...  Why is there so much secrecy?  Who has the right to decide for all what is and is not appropriate or right or ready to occur?  What are they all afraid of?  Our hatred being redirected from ourselves to the Universe when we realize our lives have been made rough, miserable, and painful because we were designed to be this way?

I stick by my belief that the Confederation is in itself not much different from us in its choices.  They can tell us less than the truth about something, they stay to opinions and provide conflicting information, and then ask we forgive and love them.  I just hope they're okay with our species feeling great negativity/pain towards such aspects of living entities like themselves when we discover they've been manipulating us from behind the scenes for our entire existence on this planet if not earlier.

Imagine if you were a child and your parents manipulated you your entire life, kept you in the dark, fed you confliction, told you how to be in kindly ways while offering oddly cold deterrence of information, and then asked you love and forgive them as themselves.  They tell you all that you see as wrong in others is actually your own problem, is something wrong in you.  And then you discover you've been manipulated since infancy to become this whatever the parents wanted you to be.

How would you feel?

So, I don't hold that Humanity 'knows' what it wants, I believe Humanity is kept thick in confusion on purpose.  And for how long?  How many will embrace a light that they realize manipulated them this entire time?

It'd be different if we were partially unveiled souls and could see underneath it to realize this is the Creator's Will reexperiencing itself.  But we're not even that.  We're thick-in-it Veiled Humans.

I don't personally feel this way towards the Confederation like I used to.  I do still believe we are owed much explanation if disclosure ever occurs from them and much of the involved interfering cosmos for it's reasons.

..And hopefully we as humanity are okay with a Cosmic Religion being the reasons for such...

[earth_spirit]

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[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I agree.   I hope Humanity melds well with the Cosmos, assuming we get there in a veiled state. All is Well truly.

The hard part to read was me saying I don't fit the 'norm' of Transgenderism.  So much so when I made this thread I didn't even properly know how to socially convey my feelings of thinking I'm Transgender because I can't find an agreed upon definition of what it means to be such :-/

[octavia]

edit: i have since apologized for this message over private message to earth spirit as upon second viewing i found that i failed to meet my own standards in terms of non-judgment. my original post is left unchanged below.

Hello earth_spirit,

concerning this topic there are a few things that I would like to make mention of and a few questions I would like to ask.

You say what is "worth mentioning is the echo-chamber of some trans communities, specifically how they refuse to believe that gender dysphoria can be alleviated by psychological treatment and recommend that all such individuals should transition (get mutilated) for their own good, even for cases where conventional treatment is effective."
I am not familiar with what information you have used to come to this conclusion. Could you please tell me? I am not familiar with any editorials, personal accounts, etc. that make this claim.

"One thing I don't appreciate about "trans-woman" is when they transform themselves into a complete caricature of "femininity"; grow long hair, wear lipstick, dresses, skirts, stockings, heels, whatnot. I'm not one to judge but nevertheless am inclined to see this as.. unhealthy to say the least. It is almost as if their understanding of being "female" is completely superficial and limited to whatever is culturally acceptable behavior for women. It's ironic when these allegedly non-conforming people end up reinforcing the petty gender norms of whatever oppressive culture they inhabit."
earth_spirit, I can see how you have come to such a conclusion, however I personally feel that what you are describing is not the case. I would begin by asking the question: do you believe that cisgender women, (women who are not transgender) make a caricature of femininity when they grow long hair, wear lipstick, dresses, skirts, stockings, heels, whatnot, etc.? If not, why? earth_spirit, perhaps it does not seem like it, but I can assure you that there are a great variety of transgender people. Some transgender men fit into the traditional descriptions of what is considered masculine, and some do not. So too: some transgender women fit into the traditional descriptions of what is considered feminine, and some do not. It seems that when you bring up your difficulties with transgender people, you speak of transgender women almost exclusively, such as in your example. It might be useful to consider whether you have a specific difficulty with accepting transgender women in particular, and if you feel that you do, ask yourself why that might be.

[earth_spirit]

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