2nd LOO Question: Creation

[Quantum]

Do we imagine that God/One Infinite Creator (hereinafter referred to as GOIC) ... (its quite alright to refer to "IT" as GOIC given that "GOIC" has an Infinite amount of humor) is still creating, or do we imagine that as the Big Bang infers, "GOIC's" creation (as in this single creation by this Logos) was created but once?

Question: Is GOIC still churning out souls, or did "IT" do this only once? Living in Florida I witnessed what is otherwise a daily event in Florida. Sitting on my porch yesterday while meditating on the beach which it overlooks, notwithstanding said distraction of girl in bikini below, I was further distracted yet again by a big juicy fat nasty cockroach attempting to send me a neutral greeting by crawling up my bare leg in shorts (my shorts, not his). Such is the way of meditation. The question that immediately came to mind after shaking it off (the cockroach, not the question) is this:

* If GOIC does not continue to create, then is GOIC "Green-Minded", and consequently said cockroach is a recycled soul?

* If my friend the cockroach is not a recycled soul, then is he such a severely handicapped laggard by being so far behind that after 4 billion years of earth's history he only now has learned to "crawl" (pun intended) up the spiritual ladder to attain the status of said cockroach? And who knows how old said cockroach really is given the penchant for the redistribution of souls throughout the galaxy? Imagine a planet like Maladek which exploded a millennium ago with 1D chunks of rock that did not have enough time to evolve to cockroach status necessitating the need for said 1D rocks coming here to earth to "pick up its pieces" (pun intended) to continue on its evolutionary ascent up the density ladder to graduate out of 1D rock-ness, but is still a rock nonetheless on earth? The rock in my garden may have been a rock for trillions of years by this count. Well, thats OK, but, is the rock slower, or is the rock newer?

* If the 1D rock is new, is then GOIC continually creating new stuff ad infinitum, which makes for an infinite number of selves infinitely and continually created (and j-e-e-z...lets keep it to this creation vs Infinity...lol).

* If the 1D rock is not new, and the Earth is at some 4 billion years old, then my pal the cockroach is quite the laggard in learning, as is his brother the rock, which makes the cockroach look like Einstein, and us as though Gods on speed.


Now, it my seem I offer these questions in jest only. They are humorous. But the question remains the same:
* Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?
* Or to to the converse, to you geologists out there, do rocks even continue to be created? We know that molecules and compounds are derivatives of elements, and that atoms comprise their make-up. As such they change. Given they change, does something then take its place given we don't seem to run out of rocks?

~ Q ~

[Deekun]

Weird, I was just thinking the same thing the other day while at work. There I was sitting and I sent my thoughts to my apartment's backyard. There is a tree I usually stare at because I have a fond memory of it with my GF letting me photograph her sitting there with the afternoon sun shinning on her face. Ugh, I ramble... so anyhow... I started to think at what we must seem like to small animals... then the thought came about ants. There have to be infinitely more ants then humans within a city than there are humans on the planet. Who holds their memories? Who helps them up the ladder of spirituality? What do they think about when they see us walk above them? Are we Gods to them? For all we know the small animals that crawl around could be revering us when they get a glimpse of us... and think about this... how long a lifetime they have. Some may never even see a human in their lifetime, specially the queen.

Another thing came to mind... we can see but so far, what about small insects, animals? How far can they see? Can they see the stars? We know that rabbits can see the moon. But what about other small animals, could they on the other hand see further than us? See other spectrums we are not able to see, hear?
Then I thought, what if a part of what Ra said that when 4th Density finally opens up completely to us and we see that we are all united as one we will notice that maybe that ant, that tree, that rock, that fish all over the planet was a sub-base of each of us. What if, we have a basic form in each animal/plant/rock species that is connected to us but we just don't know this yet? What if this Intelligent Infinity that we are all searching for is merely communication with our other selves and all we have to do is.. speak?

Needless to say during all this time I was pondering this, time seemed to stall while I was wrapping my head around it. All of maybe 2 minutes passed and then again I just gasped at amazement at how our brain has such a vast amount of computational power that we have just not been able to tap into.

DK

[Questioner]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

[Aaron]

Hi, Quantum. I don't remember reading any specific information in the Ra or Q'uo materials about the birthing of new souls or what is "currently" going on in relation to that. My intuitive understanding, though, is that from our curious perspective in time, the formation of the physical universe and therefore the souls that inhabit the 1D matter (and all the higher density souls that have spiralled up out of that) seems to have happened a long time ago, and we see the evolution of souls happen veeeerrrryyyyyyyy slowly. But from a whole perspective, it all happens at once.

GOIC (hehe) created/creates/will create an infinite amount of souls and has/is/will receive back into its "self" an infinite amount. It's one timeless motion for it. However, we can't perceive it like that because we experience life as part of the creation right now. Ra's quote which contains the words "exploration is free to continue in an infinite present" comes to mind. I would link you to the specific page, but I'm stuck on a mobile device right now...

There has to be souls at every level of creation at any given time, otherwise there wouldn't be any way to progress up the chain! There would be no interaction, no incentive or opportunity for growth. We are all at the exact level of evolution that we are meant to be at this time. On the Michael Teachings site, there is a page on soul age where you may find some supporting and clarifying ideas on this concept. Although all the information on that page didn't really resonate with me, one of the things they do say is (I don't think I can pull the exact quote from memory, but it goes something like this) "There is nothing better about being an old soul versus a younger one. Old souls help the younger ones to mature and the younger souls offer the older ones great gifts in the form of catalysts. We are all where we need to be in the great cycle of creation."

We can see its true, because your cockroach friend has offered you catalyst for internal growth! :p

Deekun, I've had similar thoughts as you in regards to shared essence with other creatures and things. I think that when the veil drops, and we are able to see other selves as other selves, it will include the lower densities as well. It's the feeling of "interconnectivity", so precious, full of clarity, and I believe, a 4th density quality. We can just scratch the surface of it during this lifetime, I think.

[spero]

Heya

I think the following quotes provide answers to some of your questions

28.12 Questioner: Thank you. I’ll call the lenticular galaxy that we are in the major galaxy just so we will not get mixed up in our terms. Does all the consciousness in individualized form that goes into what we are calling the major galaxy start out and go through all of the densities in order, one-two-three-four-five-six-seven and into the eighth, or are there some who start up higher in the rank so that there is always a mixture of intelligent consciousness in the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. The latter is more nearly correct. In each beginning there is the beginning from infinite strength. Free will acts as a catalyst. Beings begin to form the universes. Consciousness then begins to have the potential to experience. The potentials of experience are created as a part of intelligent energy and are fixed before experience begins.

However, there is always, due to free will acting infinitely upon the creation, a great variation in initial responses to intelligent energy’s potential. Thus almost immediately the foundations of the, shall we call it, hierarchical nature of beings begins to manifest as some portions of consciousness or awareness learn through experience in a much more efficient manner.

28.13 Questioner: Is there any reason for some portions being much more efficient in learning?

Ra: I am Ra. Is there any reason for some to learn more quickly than others? Look, if you wish, to the function of the will … the, shall we say, attraction to the upward spiraling line of light.

Spero

[Quantum]

[quote='spero' pid='19732' dateline='1284729478']
Heya

I think the following quotes provide answers to some of your questions

[quote]
28.12 Questioner: Thank you. I’ll call the lenticular galaxy that we are in the major galaxy just so we will not get mixed up in our terms. Does all the consciousness in individualized form that goes into what we are calling the major galaxy start out and go through all of the densities in order, one-two-three-four-five-six-seven and into the eighth, or are there some who start up higher in the rank so that there is always a mixture of intelligent consciousness in the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. The latter is more nearly correct. In each beginning there is the beginning from infinite strength. Free will acts as a catalyst. Beings begin to form the universes. Consciousness then begins to have the potential to experience. The potentials of experience are created as a part of intelligent energy and are fixed before experience begins.

However, there is always, due to free will acting infinitely upon the creation, a great variation in initial responses to intelligent energy’s potential. Thus almost immediately the foundations of the, shall we call it, hierarchical nature of beings begins to manifest as some portions of consciousness or awareness learn through experience in a much more efficient manner.

28.13 Questioner: Is there any reason for some portions being much more efficient in learning?

Ra: I am Ra. Is there any reason for some to learn more quickly than others? Look, if you wish, to the function of the will … the, shall we say, attraction to the upward spiraling line of light.
[/quote]
Fantastic find spero. Thank you. It seems my pal the cockroach has provided as much fodder to our quest as he has catalyst. Although a previously intellectually understood concept that "All is One", this Ra quote literally places things in a different perspective (if allowed). It seems to resonate just a little deeper with the understanding that not only are we as 3D beings literally God, given that any particle of source is still source nonetheless, much like any ray of sunlight can not be divided, and even if it could it is still source, then so too is the cockroach God. It brings an entirely different if not expanded understanding of God to the table. God as the One Infinite Creator GOIC is literally the rock, as IT is the Cockroach, as IT is you, me, Ra, and a zigajillion Octaves of beings in them after that.

Forgive the humor as well as the point when I suggest that its an easier concept to wrap our minds around our infantile anthropomorphic visions of GOIC dressed in white robes replete with a staff and beard as a male no less, all whist appearing like us, but more difficult to imagine GOIC now also as having antlers and six legs with buggy eyes.

OK...so we find that GOIC, in It's Infinite wisdom, has cast IT's bread upon the water, so to speak, this by creating immediately those in higher rank whilst also creating as immediately those in lower rank. By the time the cockroach figures all this out it will no doubt have already hit 5D or 6D and might be able to let go of any feelings of favoritism and partisanship exercised less it depolarizes for harboring same.

But wait a minute! I just figured it out in 3D. Assuming I'm not a wanderer, I'm...I'm...well....I'm beginning to feel a little put upon for having been relegated to beginning in 3D rather than say 6, or 7...heck, 5 would have been OK too. H-m-m-m-m...lets keep this to ourselves lest 5D STS gets wind of this and all hell breaks loose.

* Are we suggesting in fact, as a result, that creation in this lenticular system of our major galaxy only happened once then(?)
...................................................................................and that
* GOIC isn't busy in the basement cooking up more souls to replace those moving out of their densities and up the stairway to the next densities?
* If so, then remember that rocks have been around a long long time, and that rocks on those planets closer to the sun are older than those rocks on earth, given that those planets closer to the sun were created first. And this says nothing at all about rocks on planets even older than which are on planets with suns closer to the center of the Galaxy, which are surely even far older yet.


side note: if those rocks closer to our own sun on said older planets have a better case to make for greater favoritism having been expressed as compared to those rocks further from the sun, then there may well be a colossal class action suit in the making when the rocks closer to the center of the galaxy get involved. Lets really really keep this info to ourselves and away from the rocks.


~ Q ~

[Namaste]

In my humble, and of course entirely subjective opinion, the answer is within the name: One Infinite Creator.

The crux of your question can be viewed from the perspective of time and it's relative structure. In the 3D experience, time is somewhat linear, thus giving the illusion that some have been here longer than others. Outside of this (rather beautiful) illusion, time is flexible; all happens in the eternal - and infinite - now.

The 1D rock, the 2D cockroach and the 3D human being are merely sharing a focused vector in the 3D space-time/time-space continuum of All That Is. The past/future is nothing but an illusion/mechanism for gathering experience.

[Quantum]

In my humble, and of course entirely subjective opinion, the answer is within the name: One Infinite Creator.

The crux of your question can be viewed from the perspective of time and it's relative structure.

The 1D rock, the 2D cockroach and the 3D human being are merely sharing a focused vector in the 3D space-time/time-space continuum of All That Is. The past/future is nothing but an illusion/mechanism for gathering experience.

Thank you very much Namaste for your response. It is quite on target and granted, of course so, from the perspective of infinity. However, given we revel in the Illusion (well some of us revel, others of us choose another mechanism), the illusion from this 3D perspective is the one that makes it appear as though said Cockroach has been taking his pretty time if in fact there was but one creation, or that creation keeps on keeping on and that said cockroach thus might be a newly churned out model (soul), even replete with improved antennae and chrome wheels than was his cockroach lineage before that? I will confess I have not availed myself to searching if, as the larger question poses, creation was but once, or still is?

*The humor is of course intended, but the questions remain the same.

~ Q ~

[@ndy]

Fantastic find spero. Thank you. It seems my pal the cockroach has provided as much fodder to our quest as he has catalyst. Although a previously intellectually understood concept that "All is One", this Ra quote literally places things in a different perspective (if allowed). It seems to resonate just a little deeper with the understanding that not only are we as 3D beings literally God, given that any particle of source is still source nonetheless, much like any ray of sunlight can not be divided, and even if it could it is still source, then so too is the cockroach God. It brings an entirely different if not expanded understanding of God to the table. God as the One Infinite Creator GOIC is literally the rock, as IT is the Cockroach, as IT is you, me, Ra, and a zigajillion Octaves of beings in them after that.

Forgive the humor as well as the point when I suggest that its an easier concept to wrap our minds around our infantile anthropomorphic visions of GOIC dressed in white robes replete with a staff and beard as a male no less, all whist appearing like us, but more difficult to imagine GOIC now also as having antlers and six legs with buggy eyes.

OK...so we find that GOIC, in It's Infinite wisdom, has cast IT's bread upon the water, so to speak, this by creating immediately those in higher rank whilst also creating as immediately those in lower rank. By the time the cockroach figures all this out it will no doubt have already hit 5D or 6D and might be able to let go of any feelings of favoritism and partisanship exercised less it depolarizes for harboring same.

But wait a minute! I just figured it out in 3D. Assuming I'm not a wanderer, I'm...I'm...well....I'm beginning to feel a little put upon for having been relegated to beginning in 3D rather than say 6, or 7...heck, 5 would have been OK too. H-m-m-m-m...lets keep this to ourselves lest 5D STS gets wind of this and all hell breaks loose.

* Are we suggesting in fact, as a result, that creation in this lenticular system of our major galaxy only happened once then(?)
...................................................................................and that
* GOIC isn't busy in the basement cooking up more souls to replace those moving out of their densities and up the stairway to the next densities?
* If so, then remember that rocks have been around a long long time, and that rocks on those planets closer to the sun are older than those rocks on earth, given that those planets closer to the sun were created first. And this says nothing at all about rocks on planets even older than which are on planets with suns closer to the center of the Galaxy, which are surely even far older yet.


side note: if those rocks closer to our own sun on said older planets have a better case to make for greater favoritism having been expressed as compared to those rocks further from the sun, then there may well be a colossal class action suit in the making when the rocks closer to the center of the galaxy get involved. Lets really really keep this info to ourselves and away from the rocks.


~ Q ~

Isn't there a drop of creator in everything? Every leaf? every grain of sand? every atom?
I don't have a quote for this as I'm working backwards in LOO in some ways.
Thinking fractaly though -- infinitely small, infinitely big. As above so below.

Also can we assume to know more than a bug, as every experience is as valid as another, and what we think of as time is distorted.
Think of a dream, or day dreaming - how easy it is to create rich environments instantly - you don't need to make it bit by bit - it's just there 'bang' in your head
Or sugar dissolving in water.... merging, mixing, joining. Sorry I struggle to explain what I mean.

[Namaste]

Thank you very much Namaste for your response. It is quite on target and granted, of course so, from the perspective of infinity. However, given we revel in the Illusion (well some of us revel, others of us choose another mechanism), the illusion from this 3D perspective is the one that makes it appear as though said Cockroach has been taking his pretty time if in fact there was but one creation, or that creation keeps on keeping on and that said cockroach thus might be a newly churned out model (soul), even replete with improved antennae and chrome wheels than was his cockroach lineage before that? I will confess I have not availed myself to searching if, as the larger question poses, creation was but once, or still is?

Do you have an underlying assumption that the 2D cockroach is but a single entity? Some food for thought; the roach could have been you, crawling up your own leg.

70.9 Questioner: I think I have an erroneous concept of the mind/body/spirit complex that, for instance, I represent here in this density and my Higher Self. This probably comes from my concept of space and time. I am going to try to unscramble this. The way I see it right now is that I am existing in two different locations, here and in mid-sixth-density, simultaneously. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You are existing at all levels simultaneously. It is specifically correct that your Higher Self is you in mid-sixth-density and, in your way of measuring what you know of as time, your Higher Self is your self in your future.

Regarding the evolution of the roach in context of the soul; I would imagine that the form of the roach offers particular lessons, in which the soul incarnates in to learn. Just as a new driver hops into a slow vehicle. A different form will offer a different experience. In this case, a faster car with satellite navigation, or, a roach with low-profile tyres and go faster stripes.

Either way, the evolution of consciousness is not tied directly to the environment-driven evolution of the physical vehicle. The soul and the vehicle are merely a match for a particular experience/opportunity for growth.

Are there an infinite number of souls incarnating? We can only make (un)educated guesses based upon fragments of information from Ra. Intuition is our friend here, as we're attempting to measure/quantify the ineffable, a mystery even Ra does not attempt to plumb :¬)

[Etude in B Minor]

Isn't there a drop of creator in everything? Every leaf? every grain of sand? every atom?

The creator IS everything, so there is more than a "drop" of creator in everything.

I see "souls" as the creator's way of experiencing and knowing self. This experience takes on many forms, many octaves, continually.

I don't think that "souls" are always being created. As the buddhists say, experience/consciousness is "self originating" (which means that it does not depend on anything for its origination).

[Quantum]

Do you have an underlying assumption that the 2D cockroach is but a single entity? Some food for thought; the roach could have been you, crawling up your own leg.

70.9 Questioner: I think I have an erroneous concept of the mind/body/spirit complex that, for instance, I represent here in this density and my Higher Self. This probably comes from my concept of space and time. I am going to try to unscramble this. The way I see it right now is that I am existing in two different locations, here and in mid-sixth-density, simultaneously. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You are existing at all levels simultaneously. It is specifically correct that your Higher Self is you in mid-sixth-density and, in your way of measuring what you know of as time, your Higher Self is your self in your future.

Regarding the evolution of the roach in context of the soul; I would imagine that the form of the roach offers particular lessons, in which the soul incarnates in to learn. Just as a new driver hops into a slow vehicle. A different form will offer a different experience. In this case, a faster car with satellite navigation, or, a roach with low-profile tyres and go faster stripes.
...Either way, the evolution of consciousness is not tied directly to the environment-driven evolution of the physical vehicle. The soul and the vehicle are merely a match for a particular experience/opportunity for growth.
...Are there an infinite number of souls incarnating? We can only make (un)educated guesses based upon fragments of information from Ra. Intuition is our friend here, as we're attempting to measure/quantify the ineffable, a mystery even Ra does not attempt to plumb :¬)

Its my great pleasure to make your acquaintance Namaste. Very interesting words on your part indeed. And a most perfect jewel found as given by Ra to accompany them. Thank you.
1. Is the cockroach me?
2. If Don occupied 3D and 6D in simultaneity, and was further instructed by Ra that he occupied all densities in simultaneity, then as Paul Simon sang, "I am (in fact) a Rock."
3. Let us bend our minds further then, in play and wonderment. If by extrapolating same against the words of Ra, we then may also in a very elementarily fashion infer that I occupy all sub-densities, and sub-sub-densities, and sub-sub-sub densities, and sub-sub-sub-sub etc ad infinitum all densities 1-7 as well. Wouldn't you agree?
4. As such, it causes one to wonder then if I also in simultaneity just as likely occupy all Octaves also.
5. As space is non-restrictive to either my mind, or the analogy, much less the concept, then it stands to reason that I may also occupy all spaces at once in all densities at once as well, as in the illusion of all places/spaces at once, from here to infinity.
6. Lastly, we come to the illusory concept of time, and its illusory times therein. I then may deduce that I occupy all time, and time(s) therein at once as well. What do you think?

By the Ra quote, I think then we've pieced together a rather profound find, that although is unintentionally bantered about more often than not nonchalantly as if a mantra, i.e. that "all is one", has perhaps imbued itself indeed with more substance as a direct result of the said Ra quote. Each jewel of the Ra material is a fundamental find. I believe this one to be exteremely significant. Let us see if we may gently request that this thread then remain on topic to the LOO, as was my previous intent and repeated request, much less that the name of the thread itself not be changed, so that we may explore further together. Rather than politicizing the Ra Material vis-a-vis religion or politics, or trivializing it by creating divisiveness through it, this is my greater reason for being here at B4th, to dig deeper into the LOO itself, as opposed to the transient nature of those things peripheral to it. I may find untold wealths of sources to politics and religion in untold volumes written by an untold number of great minds, but am only able to find discourse on the LOO in but one open and freer repository: Bring4th.org. Allow me then to thank the originators of B4th as much as yourself Namaste for this opportunity. Let us continue:
So, It stands to reason then very definitely by this Ra quote that I am/may be in all things at once. I am therefore infinity (and let us see what happens with this statement?). If by your suggestion that I am the Cockroach (yuck), am I then you in the cockroach as well? Therefore I am you too? Or are you suggesting that you are a different cockroach, which then leads us back into the trap of dividing the rays of sunshine as though different from its source. As suggested in my previous post above, a drop of water from the ocean can not be divided unto itself as something different from itself, and though we struggle vigorously to do so, it is still SOURCE irrespectively. We then are par and parcel of SOURCE, and if SOURCE is Infinity itself, as is God itself as the One Infinite Creator, we then are God and infinity undivided.

It may then be suggested that God as GOIC (God/One Infinite Creator) is Infinity Itself, which only seemingly created individuation as the illusion of ITself, but is all of ITself irrespectively as SOURCE, given that SOURCE has the capacity to create the illusion of individuation, but is not individuation?

Curious as to your thoughts on points 1-6 above Namaste, as I am all participants.

~ Q ~

[Namaste]

Its my great pleasure to make your acquaintance Namaste.

A reciprocal statement, brother.

Very interesting words on your part indeed. And a most perfect jewel found as given by Ra to accompany them. Thank you.

1. Is the cockroach me?
2. If Don occupied 3D and 6D in simultaneity, and was further instructed by Ra that he occupied all densities in simultaneity, then as Paul Simon sang, "I am (in fact) a Rock."
3. Let us bend our minds further then, in play and wonderment. If by extrapolating same against the words of Ra, we then may also in a very elementarily fashion infer that I occupy all sub-densities, and sub-sub-densities, and sub-sub-sub densities, and sub-sub-sub-sub etc ad infinitum all densities 1-7 as well. Wouldn't you agree?
4. As such, it causes one to wonder then if I also in simultaneity just as likely occupy all Octaves also.
5. As space is non-restrictive to either my mind, or the analogy, much less the concept, then it stands to reason that I may also occupy all spaces at once in all densities at once as well, as in the illusion of all places/spaces at once, from here to infinity.
6. Lastly, we come to the illusory concept of time, and its illusory times therein. I then may deduce that I occupy all time, and time(s) therein at once as well. What do you think?

By the Ra quote, I think then we've pieced together a rather profound find, that although is unintentionally bantered about more often than not nonchalantly as if a mantra, i.e. that "all is one", has perhaps imbued itself indeed with more substance as a direct result of the said Ra quote. Each jewel of the Ra material is a fundamental find. I believe this one to be exteremely significant. Let us see if we may gently request that this thread then remain on topic to the LOO, as was my previous intent and repeated request, much less that the name of the thread itself not be changed, so that we may explore further together. Rather than politicizing the Ra Material vis-a-vis religion or politics, or trivializing it by creating divisiveness through it, this is my greater reason for being here at B4th, to dig deeper into the LOO itself, as opposed to the transient nature of those things peripheral to it. I may find untold wealths of sources to politics and religion in untold volumes written by an untold number of great minds, but am only able to find discourse on the LOO in but one open and freer repository: Bring4th.org. Allow me then to thank the originators of B4th as much as yourself Namaste for this opportunity. Let us continue:
So, It stands to reason then very definitely by this Ra quote that I am/may be in all things at once. I am therefore infinity (and let us see what happens with this statement?). If by your suggestion that I am the Cockroach (yuck), am I then you in the cockroach as well? Therefore I am you too? Or are you suggesting that you are a different cockroach, which then leads us back into the trap of dividing the rays of sunshine as though different from its source. As suggested in my previous post above, a drop of water from the ocean can not be divided unto itself as something different from itself, and though we struggle vigorously to do so, it is still SOURCE irrespectively. We then are par and parcel of SOURCE, and if SOURCE is Infinity itself, as is God itself as the One Infinite Creator, we then are God and infinity undivided.

It may then be suggested that God as GOIC (God/One Infinite Creator) is Infinity Itself, which only seemingly created individuation as the illusion of ITself, but is all of ITself irrespectively as SOURCE, given that SOURCE has the capacity to create the illusion of individuation, but is not individuation?

Curious as to your thoughts on points 1-6 above Namaste, as I am all participants.

~ Q ~

Agreed on all parts. All is light, and light has some extremely interesting properties when viewed from light's perspective. Watch this excellent talk, recently shared on this forum...

The Primacy of Consciousness

You may skip to the 45th minute if time is of the essence, Peter Russel discusses the nature of light in a very concise manner. In short; light is in all places, at all times. The same applies to consciousness / God.

I am you, and you are me. I am the roach. You are the roach. You are infinite, I am infinite. The only difference is the focus/vector of our consciousness and the mental patterns/beliefs (personality) we have constructed in this incarnation (which in turn manifests our body). This quick sketch illustrates my personal understanding...



All That Is/Source/God runs through all of us; we are the same being - a universal consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.

The One Infinite Creator.

It's so simple, and yet so profound. Wonderful :¬)

Namasté (Nah-mah-stay)

"The God/Goddess Spirit within me recognizes and honors the God/Goddess Spirit within you."

[Deekun]

I was reading the Advaita Bodha Deepika, at first it was slow with the whole student/teacher interaction. But as I went along with it I began to get the gist of it, normally when we say we are all one. We..we....we... there is no we and that is what others don't get.
There is only One.
When you pinch your arm, a set of nerve endings tell you that you just pinched yourself, even though you are not that very small piece of meat and nerve endings you just pinched they are a PART of you. When you slam your toe, You feel it... you feel the pain, the same can be said to someone that witnesses you get hurt... to an extent they feel some of your pain and may cringe at seeing you slam your toe. Another self may find it funny and laugh, while another may become angered by the lack of compassion of the one laughing. If we are all One then wouldn't that mean all are witnessing the same thing at once and reacting to the same action?
But how can this be? How can One be going through all the emotions at once?

Imagine if you will laying on the floor, small stones placed all over your body, different density stones, some cold, some soft, smooth, warm. Now your body is perceiving all the emotions at once... your nerve endings are all reacting and sending signals to the brain which decides which signals are of more importance to the self to perceive first. Cold and Heat will most likely attract more attention. But isn't it odd when the self begins to block the feelings of heat and cold and begins to search for the stones that are smooth, the ones that weigh less, the one that may be pointy or rough? You no longer perceive the hot stone, or the cold stone. Even though the stones are still there... and what if there was a stone that had vibratory properties? Would this stone not attract the most attention of all? Sending more signals to the self it would take more Will power to silence the stone and the vibrations sent to the mind/self.

So it is with this small demonstration that it can then be understood that many and all can be all at once from One and all reacting for the One self but until given attention to it will not be perceived.
So just as the nerve endings in your body are a network that connect instantly to the mind to pass on information that the self will perceive, is it at all any less possible that we are but a nerve ending to the God head which we are all a part of? Is a hair not a part of you? Is a toenail not also considered a part of you? A drop of blood? A cell? We could very well be a small memory process from eons ago in the brain of the God head. Just like we can dream for months and in our perception of reality had only dreamed for 15 minutes so could we be a long lost process that is One of Infinite processes, forever expanding.

[Experience You]

We always get back to ALL is ONE.
So talking about who is an old soul or new soul makes no sense.
New is just the memories/reality of new and so is old, pure perception, Points of view.

There is no such a thing as new or old when everything is eternal, when there is only ALL and Now

But here we reach the end of the journey and it's beginning, there is nothing to evolve and to know, aren't you all things and all knowing already ?

There is only the eternal experience of all these.

It is mind boggling.

Everything will always be as it should be forever and ALL will always experience ALL.


So chill out and enjoy the journey, or not but no matter all remains ALL. All choices, All experiences, ALL views, Everything.

And nothing

[Namaste]

On a side note, there is actually only one 'soul'. That soul however, may incarnate or divide itself a potentially infinite number of times :¬)

[Quantum]

There has to be souls at every level of creation at any given time, otherwise there wouldn't be any way to progress up the chain!
We can see its true, because your cockroach friend has offered you catalyst for internal growth!

Thank you Aaron. Your thinking is spot on with respect to the Ra quote provided by Namaste above. Your statement may coincide with Namaste's ending statement (see below last statement quoted) to a point worth considering.

Isn't there a drop of creator in everything? Every leaf? every grain of sand? every atom?

The creator IS everything, so there is more than a "drop" of creator in everything.

I was reading the Advaita Bodha Deepika, at first it was slow with the whole student/teacher interaction. But as I went along with it I began to get the gist of it, normally when we say we are all one. We..we....we... there is no we and that is what others don't get. There is only One.

On a side note, there is actually only one 'soul'. That soul however, may incarnate or divide itself a potentially infinite number of times :¬)

Thank you all for continuing in the exploration of this/these questions. Thank you as well Namaste for providing the video link above. It is a Fascinating listen. The underlying assumption in each post is indeed that "All is One." It seems we may certainly agree on it as we traverse up the ladder to this understanding. But what does this mean if we attempt to drill it down, rather than up? What I mean to suggest is that if we return to my original questions posted above in my opening thread, the question remains, does the axiom of "all is one" rule out the possibility that GOD ONE INFINITE CREATOR (GOIC) only created once, or might it also be inclusive of the fact that GOIOC continually individuates ITself on an infinite basis, thereby in a sense is in fact continually busy in the basement churning out new souls, as it were, all the time, as individuations of ITself, who as new souls of ITself are just beginning, such as elements, rocks, trees, animals etc, whether here on earth or throughout IT's creation(s)? Thus we have the axiom that indeed all is one, but with perhaps the added understanding that the individuation of "this one" is a newer flavor of ITself, and as such a newer soul, whereas "that one" is an older flavor of itself and an "older soul" as such (albeit they're all at once), and then compounded by the complicating factor that notwithstanding some are also individuated at different levels of sub-densities, densities, and octaves as well. In this sense there may indeed exist "New Souls" all the time, and even created/individuated at higher levels than ourselves at 3D, versus what we have come to understand as"Old souls?" An old soul may be no wiser than is the newer soul created at the higher level? In fact, the older soul on the lower level may be infinitely less informed?

Thought experiments such as these melt our nicely orchestrated semblance of our concepts, as much as the universe(s) and creation ITself. We struggle as though there were truly a segmented and layered out piecemeal understanding in some sense of a hierarchical architecture. There may not be at all. We strive as a means to order it within our own limited understanding.But what if it just aint so? The above Kinda throws everything back into a disarray of incomprehensibility again, don't it?

Piecing Aaron's comment together with yours Namaste, let us take the example of a newer Lenticular Galaxy more recently formed than is our own as a thought experiment, wherein within it are those bodies, whether Suns, Planets, or perhaps even simpler M/B/S Complexes, who, as closer to its center, may be far more advanced up the Density and Octave ladder than are we as M/B/S complexes in 3D who have been doing this dance for what may be billions, even trillions of years, versus theirs which is relatively newer at perhaps only thousands.

Two questions are posed within this thought experiment within the backdrop of the information below repeated as reference:

28.12 Questioner: Thank you. I’ll call the lenticular galaxy that we are in the major galaxy just so we will not get mixed up in our terms. Does all the consciousness in individualized form that goes into what we are calling the major galaxy start out and go through all of the densities in order, one-two-three-four-five-six-seven and into the eighth, or are there some who start up higher in the rank so that there is always a mixture of intelligent consciousness in the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. The latter is more nearly correct. In each beginning there is the beginning from infinite strength. Free will acts as a catalyst. Beings begin to form the universes. Consciousness then begins to have the potential to experience. The potentials of experience are created as a part of intelligent energy and are fixed before experience begins.

1. May GOIC, as suggested, continue churning out newer individuations of ITself infinitely, thus in a sense creating newer souls (of Itself) as such all the time?
2. If so, may it not be assumed that many of these newer souls as such, having been created at differing and varying ranks of 1-7D, are far more advanced, irrespective of their newer-ness as compared to our older-ness?

Dizzying (as Questioner stated above) ain't it?


~ Q ~

[βαθμιαίος]

1. May GOIC, as suggested, continue churning out newer individuations of ITself infinitely, thus in a sense creating newer souls (of Itself) as such all the time?

My guess is yes. It's an Infinite Creator, after all. To me, that implies that it creates infinitely. They say "writers write" and "fighters fight." I'd add, "Creators create."

2. If so, may it not be assumed that many of these newer souls as such, having been created at differing and varying ranks of 1-7D, are far more advanced, irrespective of their newer-ness as compared to our older-ness?

In my opinion, yes and no. You left out the second paragraph of the quote from session 28, which is

However, there is always, due to free will acting infinitely upon the creation, a great variation in initial responses to intelligent energy’s potential. Thus almost immediately the foundations of the, shall we call it, hierarchical nature of beings begins to manifest as some portions of consciousness or awareness learn through experience in a much more efficient manner.

It's certainly possible, indeed quite likely, that some of the beings created since we were have already outstripped us laggards, but, if I read the above correctly, that's not because they were created at higher level than us but because they may have used experience in a much more efficient manner.

[Quantum]

If so, may it not be assumed that many of these newer souls as such, having been created at differing and varying ranks of 1-7D, are far more advanced, irrespective of their newer-ness as compared to our older-ness?

In my opinion, yes and no. You left out the second paragraph of the quote from session 28, which is:

However, there is always, due to free will acting infinitely upon the creation, a great variation in initial responses to intelligent energy’s potential. Thus almost immediately the foundations of the, shall we call it, hierarchical nature of beings begins to manifest as some portions of consciousness or awareness learn through experience in a much more efficient manner[/i].

It's certainly possible, indeed quite likely, that some of the beings created since we were have already outstripped us laggards, but, if I read the above correctly, that's not because they were created at higher level than us but because they may have used experience in a much more efficient manner.

Help me understand more fully your interpretation as per your response I bolded above: "that's not because they were created at higher level than us but because they may have used experience in a much more efficient manner." If I read literally what you state, then you interpret those beings created at higher densities as having greater consciousness not because they were in fact created at the outset with higher consciousness as as a result of their creation in higher densities, but are with higher consciousness more likely because they may have used their experience more efficiently?

It brings up an interesting question:
1. Do you imagine higher consciousness as not being synonymous with higher density? I assume they are suggestive of the same. In other words, those beings created at higher density have greater consciousness simply as a result of being (created) at higher density. If they are synonymous, then for whatever reasons the Infinite Creator elected, some beings are simply created at higher densities and with higher consciousness in simultaneity, as one is a definition of the other, i.e. higher consciousness = higher density, while others of us, who although were created long before them, are still working ourselves through the densities to arrive at where they are seemingly graced with starting. This however does not mean that many of those created in higher densities, as per the quote, do not also struggle as much as we do in 3D, and more to the point as compared to their counterparts in equal higher densities who advance more quickly as a result of using more efficiently their experiences. But it may still mean that they are as a result even though laggards by their own standard, still far more advanced than are we in 3D by creative birth right alone. Viewed through the eye of the ego in 3D it sounds unfair. Viewed through the eye of the infinite, such a view would be humorous, if not irrelevant, or certainly at least misunderstood.
2. If the two words density and consciousness are not synonymous, or related, it then brings up a great many more questions as a result.

* Perhaps it would also be wiser to broaden the definition of "Density" to include not only consciousness, but perhaps also varying degrees approaching infinite intelligence, as in more intelligence, as well as greater degrees of light.

Curious what your or all others take on this might be in light of the above posted Ra quote...

~ Q ~

[Turtle]

Curious what your or all others take on this might be in light of the above posted Ra quote...

Some entities simply choose to learn things faster than others (for whatever reasons, they are biased to learning faster). A by-product of this discrepancy is the so called hierarchical "nature" of reality...some seeming to be left behind, and others seeming to be learning too fast!

----------------------------

The dynamic between free-will and infinity is truly mind-boggling. There are universes/realities which look NOTHING like ours, galaxies that are shaped like cubes instead of spirals..."stars" that do not shine but are pastel colored...time, space, gravity, and every backbone of physical reality all interchanged with conceptual forces that I have no reference point for attempting to describe. Even in our home universe, Ra states that they are aware of other galaxies where the archetypal mind "palates" are so different from our own that an entity from our local galaxy going over there to incarnate would be so utterly confused by it all, having no basis with which to understand the experience offered. I'm willing to bet that kind of experience alone could be more traumatic (whether in good or bad ways) to an entity than any other experience here. This would then create new biases and impressions upon that entity that are so strong that they govern the rest of that individual soul's experience, all the way back to unity.

[unity100]

* If my friend the cockroach is not a recycled soul, then is he such a severely handicapped laggard by being so far behind that after 4 billion years of earth's history he only now has learned to "crawl" (pun intended) up the spiritual ladder to attain the status of said cockroach? And who knows how old said cockroach really is given the penchant for the redistribution of souls throughout the galaxy? Imagine a planet like Maladek which exploded a millennium ago with 1D chunks of rock that did not have enough time to evolve to cockroach status necessitating the need for said 1D rocks coming here to earth to "pick up its pieces" (pun intended) to continue on its evolutionary ascent up the density ladder to graduate out of 1D rock-ness, but is still a rock nonetheless on earth? The rock in my garden may have been a rock for trillions of years by this count. Well, thats OK, but, is the rock slower, or is the rock newer?

a kind of incarnation mechanic probably exists, for 1d entities too, probably.

delayed, or not, a cockroach would be a young soul/entity. even if it was delayed due to maldek disaster, it is still in 2d, hence young.

the burden of maldek's destruction lies on the shoulders of its destroyers, and those who allowed it. they will inevitably need to fix what they have done, even if in the next octave.

* Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?

you are not seeing the issue from the spirit perspective. just like how infinite intelligence finding focus in sol, and creating a new focus to manifest, the spirits that are currently in 1d will probably go to new places, and find focuses and get attached to 1d manifestation, and continue their process.

[Quantum]

a kind of incarnation mechanic probably exists, for 1d entities too, probably.

delayed, or not, a cockroach would be a young soul/entity. even if it was delayed due to maldek disaster, it is still in 2d, hence young.

But this is part of the gist of the entire thread as a question. Are all said cockroaches in fact young, or may a said cockroach, or rock, or a 3D entity simply be a severely handicapped laggard, and potentially as a consequence far older than is an entity in 5 or 6D? The answer seems self evident. Making the assumption that a cockroach is a young entity simply by virtue of the fact that it is a cockroach goes against your sentiments with respect to Infinity wherein "all things in Infinity are infinitely possible?"

Barring the infinity topic however, may one suppose that a 1D or 2D entity may lag in its ability of utilizing its experiences as efficiently as would a different rock or insect, as much as any 3D entity, and that therefore the density it is in may have little to do with its age or infancy? This answer too seems self evident. Some simply do not progress as efficiently?

* Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?

you are not seeing the issue from the spirit perspective. just like how infinite intelligence finding focus in sol, and creating a new focus to manifest, the spirits that are currently in 1d will probably go to new places, and find focuses and get attached to 1d manifestation, and continue their process.

The response above does not address the question above. Certainly there is little doubt that the rock will remain a rock, if not at least in 1D, as much as the insect will in 2D, whether here on earth or any other suitable environment in the universes. The question remains as asked above.

~ Q ~

[unity100]

But this is part of the gist of the entire thread as a question. Are all said cockroaches in fact young, or may a said cockroach, or rock, or a 3D entity simply be a severely handicapped laggard, and potentially as a consequence far older than is an entity in 5 or 6D? The answer seems self evident. Making the assumption that a cockroach is a young entity simply by virtue of the fact that it is a cockroach goes against your sentiments with respect to Infinity wherein "all things in Infinity are infinitely possible?"


Barring the infinity topic however, may one suppose that a 1D or 2D entity may lag in its ability of utilizing its experiences as efficiently as would a different rock or insect, as much as any 3D entity, and that therefore the density it is in may have little to do with its age or infancy? This answer too seems self evident. Some simply do not progress as efficiently?

both are possible, i believe, in this reality. however, the mechanics of 1d graduation is not known to us in detail, so we cant be sure. if its anything like 6d graduation, all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate.

there is an important detail in the concept of 'all things in infinity are infinitely possible' -> there are infinite possibilities and everything exists, however, everything need not be necessarily in the current reality collective/locale you are in. another 'locale' in infinity may be having a certain x version of your reality, whereas, elements from that are missing in the one you are in.

* Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?

i have missed that. its important. it seems that you think a cockroach will ultimately become a 3d being, and then, ultimately a logos. the last part is important.

so you think, entities end up becoming logoses ?

[Quantum]

...the mechanics of 1d graduation is not known to us in detail, so we cant be sure. if its anything like 6d graduation, all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate.

Nothing of graduation or the mechanics thereof of any density are known to us in any detail whatsoever. We are all, by design no less, shooting in the dark. The mechanics of 6D like 1D are as completely unknown to us therefore in any greater detail whatsoever. Ra in fact spoke very little with respect to detail, inclusive of 6D and all other densities, and what they did speak of was at best in vagaries. Ra spoke at most to 3D in greatest detail as would be expected at best. If we are as sorely ignorant about our own sweet home turf of 3D, which is our better ground for theorizing (guessing), then we are clearly more lost as regards ALL other densities above us, as we are below us. All is clouded, shrouded, withheld, and a mystery with intent.

Having made the disclaimer therefore, one might be better served to imagine that 1D is nothing at all like 6D in the following respect as regards your statement "if its (1D) anything like 6d graduation all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate": by your vernacular of "a certain spirit collective" I assume you to interpretively mean, speaking by Ra's vernacular, "a Social Memory Complex." It seems logical to infer that 1D is without capacity of such. A rock is a rock in 1D without the benefit of social interaction to even begin to form a SMC which we in 3D have even yet to reach. Surely it seems logical to suggest that 1D is not capable of surpassing 3D in this respect. Therefore it seems as logical to assume the comparative analysis of 1D to 6D as a gross mis-step if one may not even do so with 3D to 6D as regards specifically "a certain spirit collective" aka "a Social Memory Complex." Wouldn't you agree?

Secondly, even if one were to allow for your logic, it changes nothing with respect to the original question as regards the laggards. Whether "a rock of one", or "a rock of many as a collective consciousness," a rock may still be lagging in its use of utilizing experience efficiently such that "one rock" or "many rocks as one complex" may still nonetheless lag for billions of years. The same may be said of 6D as well in as much as one SMC may lag longer than another in 6D, less 6D would become a vacuum in which all of 6D graduates at once and then waits to be refilled so that all may graduate at once again.

If the thought experimental rock lags to the extent that it and the thought experimental roach have, either for billions of years, it is by our standards extremely slow. If as you seemingly suggest, the rock has a finite schedule for being a rock of many, or one, then what replaces the rocks of many or one but more newly created rocks of many or one, less we would run out of rocks. It becomes circular. It would seem that creation continues creating.

there is an important detail in the concept of 'all things in infinity are infinitely possible' -> there are infinite possibilities and everything exists, however, everything need not be necessarily in the current reality collective/locale you are in. another 'locale' in infinity may be having a certain x version of your reality, whereas, elements from that are missing in the one you are in.

Given my last attempt to enter into a dialog with you on your previous thread in which I ended up engaging with another participant instead without the benefit of your input, I am somewhat willing with trepidation to "shortly" tread into a discussion with you on your sentiments as regards "Infinity" as a means of lovingly rectifying what was derailed, but would request that perhaps we do so by picking it up on your previous thread to avert the risk of derailing this one. Feel free to cut my question below here and paste it there. To that end: on the one hand it seems you repeatedly suggest that all is infinitely possible within infinity. It seems at face value to hold truth. But do you truly believe this in every single infinite aspect of it?

* Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?

i have missed that. its important. it seems that you think a cockroach will ultimately become a 3d being, and then, ultimately a logos. the last part is important....so you think, entities end up becoming logoses ?

Here we are again with your own question with respect to your own previous sentiments as regards Infinity staring you back in the mirror. Do you believe in every single aspect of what you propose? If yes, then it is a short reply. If there are exceptions, then I would be most open to hearing what they are, and as importantly how it is you would propose to restrict what you have suggested is otherwise infinite.


Looking forward to your response on your infinity thread where I will join you on what I hope will be a short discourse, rather than a circular one without end.

...L/L...
~ Q ~

[unity100]

Nothing of graduation or the mechanics thereof of any density are known to us in any detail whatsoever. We are all, by design no less, shooting in the dark. The mechanics of 6D like 1D are as completely unknown to us therefore in any greater detail whatsoever. Ra in fact spoke very little with respect to detail, inclusive of 6D and all other densities, and what they did speak of was at best in vagaries. Ra spoke at most to 3D in greatest detail as would be expected at best. If we are as sorely ignorant about our own sweet home turf of 3D, which is our better ground for theorizing (guessing), then we are clearly more lost as regards ALL other densities above us, as we are below us. All is clouded, shrouded, withheld, and a mystery with intent.

there are conflicting statements in above block.

first, you say that we dont know mechanics of graduation of any density, yet then you say that Ra spoke at length about 3d graduation.

in any case, we do know the mechanics and requirements of graduation from various densities.

1d's graduation requires the desire to progress and develop consciously, 2d graduation requires awareness of existence of a 'self' separate from others, 3d graduation requires 51% positive emissions, 4d graduation requires understanding of light, being able to use it, and a readiness to learn the dance and take on responsibility.

Having made the disclaimer therefore, one might be better served to imagine that 1D is nothing at all like 6D in the following respect as regards your statement "if its (1D) anything like 6d graduation all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate": by your vernacular of "a certain spirit collective" I assume you to interpretively mean, speaking by Ra's vernacular, "a Social Memory Complex." It seems logical to infer that 1D is without capacity of such. A rock is a rock in 1D without the benefit of social interaction to even begin to form a Social Memory Complex which we in 3D have even yet to reach. Surely it seems logical to suggest that 1D is not capable of surpassing 3D in this respect. Therefore it seems as logical to assume the comparative analysis of 1D to 6D as a gross mis-step if one may not even do so with 3D to 6D as regards specifically "a certain spirit collective" aka "a Social Memory Complex." Wouldn't you agree?

i dont agree.

1d of this octave, is 8d of the earlier octave. like how 8d of this octave is 1d of the later octave.

there seems to be a repeating pattern in regard to evolution in octaves.

in earlier 3 densities, there is unison among entities/spirits, then in 3d they become individualized, and then individualization starts to lessen and entities start to meld into one in the last 3 densities. this is understandable from what Ra says about them, acting as one and being one, and speaking as 'i am Ra' instead of 'we are Ra'.

thus, it is highly possible that 1d exists in a state of unison and cohesion in higher cohesiveness than other densities, similar to a 8d existence, with the differentiation among 'spirit groups' or characteristics of local existences of infinite intelligence being very hardly discernable.

from unison to individualization and to unison again, in an unending cycle.

Secondly, even if one were to allow for your logic, it changes nothing with respect to the original question as regards the laggards. Whether "a rock of one", or "a rock of many as a collective consciousness," a rock may still be lagging in its use of utilizing experience efficiently such that "one rock" or "many rocks as one complex" may still nonetheless lag for billions of years. The same may be said of 6D as well in as much as one Social Memory Complex may lag longer than another in 6D, less 6D would become a vacuum in which all of 6D graduates at once and then waits to be refilled so that all may graduate at once again.

i think any kind of 'lagging behind' would not happen unless unnecessary, unwise, and detrimental 'catalyst' was introduced due the misplanning of a local logos, as in the case of this solar system.

in an ideal situation, any spirit collective would manifest in any given density as long as their situation requires it, and start to pass into the next manifestation level according to the attraction from above, and the pushing of the energy coming from below (infinite intelligence), and seamlessly transition into the next level of existence. this is the way, apparently it should be.

If the thought experimental rock lags to the extent that it and the thought experimental roach have, either for billions of years, it is by our standards extremely slow. If as you seemingly suggest, the rock has a finite schedule for being a rock of many, or one, then what replaces the rocks of many or one but more newly created rocks of many or one, less we would run out of rocks. It becomes circular. It would seem that creation continues creating.

its not like that. individualization should be increasing towards 2d. ie, the undifferentiated (from our criteria) rock consciousness of a certain rock type, would get affected and evolve and prevalent individualizations in its consciousness would get increasingly individualized, and then translate/morph or somehow get 'incarnated' into different rock forms, or, whatever object form is the closes to those individualizations' understandings.

this may probably have to be collective. since, apart from 2d and 3d, harvest of densities seem to be collective harvests. ie, the densities in which individualization increases.

then again it also may be individual, since first 3 densities seem to be densities of individualization.

in any case, eventually the collective of spirits manifesting as rock would probably pass to being increasingly organic manifestations of elements, and then manifest as viruses or cellular organisms of early 2d, starting further individualization. since we know from Ra that animals return to 'group consciousness' upon death, we can easily say a 'group collective' exists in that state.

Given my last attempt to enter into a dialog with you on your previous thread in which I ended up engaging with another participant instead without the benefit of your input, I am somewhat willing with trepidation to "shortly" tread into a discussion with you on your sentiments as regards "Infinity" as a means of lovingly rectifying what was derailed, but would request that perhaps we do so by picking it up on your previous thread to avert the risk of derailing this one. Feel free to cut my question below here and paste it there. To that end: on the one hand it seems you repeatedly suggest that all is infinitely possible within infinity. It seems at face value to hold truth. But do you truly believe this in every single infinite aspect of it?

Here we are again with your own question with respect to your own previous sentiments as regards Infinity staring you back in the mirror. Do you believe in every single aspect of what you propose? If yes, then it is a short reply. If there are exceptions, then I would be most open to hearing what they are, and as importantly how it is you would propose to restrict what you have suggested is otherwise infinite.


Looking forward to your response on your infinity thread where I will join you on what I hope will be a short discourse, rather than a circular one without end.

...L/L...
~ Q ~

infinity, is infinite. there is no other case or situation. its not even left to believing. its not a matter of belief.

i dont understand what you want me to do. you want me to reply to you in this thread ? you want me to reply to you in the other thread ? what do you want me to reply to in the first place ? just pose your question in the thread you mean to, and i will reply.

---

before it gets lost in the shuffle :

i have missed that. its important. it seems that you think a cockroach will ultimately become a 3d being, and then, ultimately a logos. the last part is important....so you think, entities end up becoming logoses ?

i have specifically asked this, to bring this up.

there is a possibility that, all or some totalities manifest as logoses in 8d, creating suns and experience nexuses. if this is the case, ra would eventually pass through 7d, go into 8d, and manifest as a local logos throughout part or all of 8d.

[Quantum]

Nothing of graduation or the mechanics thereof of any density are known to us in any detail whatsoever. We are all, by design no less, shooting in the dark. The mechanics of 6D like 1D are as completely unknown to us therefore in any greater detail whatsoever. Ra in fact spoke very little with respect to detail, inclusive of 6D and all other densities, and what they did speak of was at best in vagaries. Ra spoke at most to 3D in greatest detail as would be expected at best. If we are as sorely ignorant about our own sweet home turf of 3D, which is our better ground for theorizing (guessing), then we are clearly more lost as regards ALL other densities above us, as we are below us. All is clouded, shrouded, withheld, and a mystery with intent.

there are conflicting statements in above block.
first, you say that we dont know mechanics of graduation of any density, yet then you say that Ra spoke at length about 3d graduation.

You misread the entire meaning. What was said was: we know nothing of detailed mechanics of any density, as I stated, inclusive of our own 3D in detail, as I stated, other than generalities that Ra spoke to, most of which (and certainly not in detail) were with respect to our own 3D in greatest detail, as I stated. This was a simple response to your previous post above wherein you state "the mechanics of 1d graduation is not known to us in detail, so we cant be sure. if its (1D) anything like 6d graduation all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate."

in any case, we do know the mechanics and requirements of graduation from various densities.

Do we enough so in detail so as to address them, other than imagine them in sweeping vagaries and generalities versus even far more broader generalities heaped upon these? Thus we are reduced to speculations at best, and in the dark no less. 3D is difficult enough to discuss. All other densities are beyond our grasp, given we have our hands more than enough full within our own 3rd Density in this lifetime.

Having made the disclaimer therefore, one might be better served to imagine that 1D is nothing at all like 6D in the following respect as regards your statement "if its (1D) anything like 6d graduation all elements constituting a certain spirit collective would need to graduate": by your vernacular of "a certain spirit collective" I assume you to interpretively mean, speaking by Ra's vernacular, "a Social Memory Complex." It seems logical to infer that 1D is without capacity of such. A rock is a rock in 1D without the benefit of social interaction to even begin to form a Social Memory Complex which we in 3D have even yet to reach. Surely it seems logical to suggest that 1D is not capable of surpassing 3D in this respect. Therefore it seems as logical to assume the comparative analysis of 1D to 6D as a gross mis-step if one may not even do so with 3D to 6D as regards specifically "a certain spirit collective" aka "a Social Memory Complex." Wouldn't you agree?

i dont agree. 1d of this octave, is 8d of the earlier octave. like how 8d of this octave is 1d of the later octave. there seems to be a repeating pattern in regard to evolution in octaves.

Now this is a most curious twist of logic. I suggest this in humor as much as in earnest. Although I admit that your logic at face value is almost always intriguing at first brush, it just as often stands logic on its head as a result.
Although the generality of 1D of the previous Octave is 8D of the next, how in the world may you deduce from this that one Octave is even remotely similar to another? It may be. But it may just as very likely not be at all. Allow me to demonstrate a better logic from the Ra quotes if I may. If Ra dared not plumb the depths of the next Octave, how then might we plumb the depths of the previous? You assume by your logic that everything may be piecemealed and stacked together very nicely in a hierarchical structure stretching logic to such an extent that it fast becomes illogical. By your logic, Ra will graduate one fine day from mid 6D into 7D, this after some 2 billion more years from now, and then spend presumably many more billions+ years in 7D until finally graduating into 8D which is indeed as you state the equivalent of 1D of the next octave. The next Octave may be constituted of an entire different array of wonder having absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this wonder in any manner whatsoever. I imagine the same may be said even within an octave of 3D to simple 4D. How then may one assume one octave to another bears any similarity to eachother?
Creation must begin somewhere. Those creations may likewise end as gracefully. Perhaps it begins anew in each new Octave, rather than it necessarily perceived as an ever continuing continuum in a series of evolutions from one to the other? Were this supposition so, it would be an infinitely longer evolution stuck in the creation created simply by virtue of self imposed and rigid constraints simply for having created it, rather than as a more efficient one through the experiments by the Logoi as stated in the LOO by Ra that the Logoi experiment. It stands to reason that they do so in new Octaves. We mustn't with our finite minds constrain Infinity afterall?

in earlier 3 densities, there is unison among entities/spirits, then in 3d they become individualized, and then individualization starts to lessen and entities start to meld into one in the last 3 densities. this is understandable from what Ra says about them, acting as one and being one, and speaking as 'i am Ra' instead of 'we are Ra'.

Again, the logic is superb in some ways. But just as before it requires a jump across an abyss to make it so. 1D and 2D are not self aware. 2D acts as herd mentality completely incapable of distinguishing itself apart from the herd or its other-selves, whereas 1D is simply in a state of is-ness comprised and devoid of even being aware of its other selves in 1D in any manner whatsoever, versus 4D and above becoming aware jointly of itself as themselves as cosmic consciousness in becoming. Awareness is the distinguishing factor here which is the entire point of spiritual evolution. You may be assuming coincidence is similarity, if not perhaps reading into things which may otherwise not be there. You further seem to suggest that we in 3D are least evolved of all densities given it is the density we are most individuated in, whereas 1D and 2D are more like 4D-7D? Once again the logic contradicts itself as to the hierarchy you argue for, otherwise I might as likely argue 3D is the most special of all for being individuated unlike all other densities. Viewing it through the lens of consciousness makes abundantly more sense as the hierarchy of increasing awareness than is to view it through the lens of individuation, being together in 1D, then coming apart in 2D and 3D, then together again in 4D - 8D, all as a result of the train that began the logic due to 1D being 8D in the next Octave.

thus, it is highly possible that 1d exists in a state of unison and cohesion in higher cohesiveness than other densities, similar to a 8d existence, with the differentiation among 'spirit groups' or characteristics of local existences of infinite intelligence being very hardly discernable.from unison to individualization and to unison again, in an unending cycle.

And here you've made the point to my response above as to the jump in logic required to follow the logic proposed.

i think any kind of 'lagging behind' would not happen unless unnecessary, unwise, and detrimental 'catalyst' was introduced due the misplanning of a local logos, as in the case of this solar system.

By this logic, 3D entities lagging without graduation for the ump-teenth time in millions of years + of their sojourn, and who as a result of non-graduation are dispatched all about the galaxy to other suitable 3D planets due to not graduating to planets going 4D, is all as a result of bad planing on the part of the LOGOS (???) rather than inefficient utilization of experience of catalyst on the 3D entities part, which is the whole purpose for the plan of the Logos to begin with. Although Ra never utilized the term laggards, inefficient use of experience is tantamount to the same thing in terms of the speed at which some polarize and others do not choosing instead to sleep on.

Allow me to diverge for one moment if I may as a fellow student and seeker who knows little to nothing, but is willing to get his feet wet if not his hands dirty and to be honest. Although I do truly salute your creative abilities to form what otherwise seem to be creative concepts to the LOO Material, it seems you do so through the large jumps required in logic to get there. I do follow your logic and creative interpretations, and do find them interesting, and often lending a different perspective to the Material and quotes, but feel they as often miss the mark of what Ra was intending otherwise to convey. It is more than abundantly clear that you've read the Material quite thoroughly, very thoroughly in fact, and are as a result intimately familiar with its content, in many ways inside and out, and more so than many, but that there are basic core principles which you either extrapolate into new directions, or simply interpret in other ways. I am open to exploring more of what you see as a means of exercising and stretching my own constraints, but would ask always for specific references, given we are hopefully engaging in the study of the LOO exclusively. We are, aren't we?

in an ideal situation, any spirit collective would manifest in any given density as long as their situation requires it, and start to pass into the next manifestation level according to the attraction from above, and the pushing of the energy coming from below (infinite intelligence), and seamlessly transition into the next level of existence. this is the way, apparently it should be.

This would be so by your explanation for all densities...with the exception of 3D presumably?

since, apart from 2d and 3d, harvest of densities seem to be collective harvests. ie, the densities in which individualization increases.

I stand corrected. 2D is by your interpretation also included as furthest removed from the evolved state of 1D as a result of it being closest to 8D, notwithstanding that 8D is in an entire different Octave which we know absolutely nothing of. May I continue to gently demonstrate and challenge the jump in logic that these sentiments require to get you where you think your going? I can't speak with authority by any means, but it seems that you do. As such let me try it this way. I get that 1D is 8D. But that oh so fine "discreet" distinction from one Octave to another on the scale of a Piano may be as non-discreet as from one Piano to another Piano, if not one instrument to another so as to make it "discreate", as in annihilating what we know, from one CREATION to another by virtue of crossing that oh-so-fine and discreet 7D to 8D which is 1D....in the NEXT Octave.

Will the rock and the cockroach ultimately become a 3D being and then ultimately a Logos, and if so what is their problem in their lack of speed in staying with the program if we all started off at the same time?

i have missed that. its important. it seems that you think a cockroach will ultimately become a 3d being, and then, ultimately a logos. the last part is important....so you think, entities end up becoming logoses ?

I believe I do. I believe I must. I believe I do not know. It seems there exists the progression of evolution of consciousness such that it infinitlely continues in ascension. If I was 1D and 2D, and now am 3D, or have wandered from 6D so that I may progress to 8D and infinite Octaves beyond that, I may wander back to become a Galactic Logos by this reckoning, or choose to ever ascend upwards instead by never being a Logos. It is interesting that you even asked in as much as it is you that proposes all is infinitely possible in infinity.

i have specifically asked this, to bring this up. there is a possibility that, all or some totalities manifest as logoses in 8d, creating suns and experience nexuses. if this is the case, ra would eventually pass through 7d, go into 8d, and manifest as a local logos throughout part or all of 8d.

I have assumed something to this effect as a possibility from the outset. Yes. In some ways, particularly as regards the ability to stretch concepts, we are very much on the same page. Here is a fine example.
________________________________________________________________

Let us split the thread here, as this conversation above, inclusive of 1D to a Galactic Logos, may prove to be as interesting to any and all that may likewise have other thoughts to add to ours.

I will cut and paste the bottom of this and post it onto your previous thread "There isnt that much freedom it seems...and INFINITY"
where we may pick it up on.

It is a pleasure discoursing with you unity.

L/L

~ Q ~

_______________________________________________________________

infinity, is infinite. there is no other case or situation. its not even left to believing. its not a matter of belief.
...pose your question in the thread you mean to, and i will reply.
before it gets lost in the shuffle :

You seem adamant in your convictions. I agree infinity is infinity. But what does that mean? Lets pick it up on your thread "There isnt that much freedom it seems...and INFINITY"

[Etude in B Minor]

I'm with Quantum on this one. I believe that the next octave will be quite different than this one, as infinity explores itself through expressing yet another possibility. And where did Ra, or anybody, say that 8D is the 1D of the next octave? I had thought (based on something written somewhere?) that 8D is the state where everything becomes one once again, and lies still, resting before the next exhalation, which produces anew the universe of manifestation, beginning at 1D of the next octave.

Does that mean we begin again as rocks (or the next octave equivalent)? Maybe, but I think perhaps the collectives that formed in 4D and coalesced through 8D instead become the logoi of the next octave, guiding and planning the evolution of the new souls created (the "rocks" of the next octave). What happens to the logoi of this octave?

[Quantum]

I'm with Quantum on this one. I believe that the next octave will be quite different than this one, as infinity explores itself through expressing yet another possibility. And where did Ra, or anybody, say that 8D is the 1D of the next octave? I had thought (based on something written somewhere?) that 8D is the state where everything becomes one once again, and lies still, resting before the next exhalation, which produces anew the universe of manifestation, beginning at 1D of the next octave.

Does that mean we begin again as rocks (or the next octave equivalent)? Maybe, but I think perhaps the collectives that formed in 4D and coalesced through 8D instead become the logoi of the next octave, guiding and planning the evolution of the new souls created (the "rocks" of the next octave). What happens to the logoi of this octave?

Hello Etude,

On the latter half of your sentiment, I am in agreement with you in as much as who may say what takes place as regards the next Octave, much less what did take place in the previous. As regards unity's statement that 8D is equivalent to 1D of the next Octave, he is indeed correct as per the LOO and Ra teachings. Imagine the scale of a piano having eight notes consisting of: Doe-Rae-Mi-Fa-So-La-Te, and the next note on the scale begins anew with Doe. Doe here is indeed the first note of the next Octave on the eight scale octave as much as it is the last note of the previous Octave. Octave from the Latin Octava meaning eight. To assume in the context of the Creation however that we may be playing on the same piano at the next scale however may be the jump in logic that simply may not be applied logically. To assume that it is the same piano much less even the same instrument as we normally would on normal scales and normal pianos in normal symphonies might be a gross mis-step. We just don't know. The next Octave may simply carry with it the notes of eight, but not at all as an extension of the same Creation. To thread this together as if though it were good logic, albeit logical as I give unity credit for, may be the antithesis of logic. How may we apply logic to that which is unknown and purposefully enshrouded in mystery. That would be not only illogical, but presumptuous.


~ Q ~

[Experience You]

Infinity is everything and nothing, linear octaves make as much sense as linear time from this perspective. All perspectives are and so is One soul, One mind , One everything and Nothing.

Nothing births everything and in nothing/everything is the same. Yet always unknowable

[unity100]

Do we enough so in detail so as to address them, other than imagine them in sweeping vagaries and generalities versus even far more broader generalities heaped upon these? Thus we are reduced to speculations at best, and in the dark no less. 3D is difficult enough to discuss. All other densities are beyond our grasp, given we have our hands more than enough full within our own 3rd Density in this lifetime.

we do know a lot about many things, because, things tie to each other. and patterns repeat everywhere. if one just takes time and thinks on the small details that are found in the texts, s/he can see that the tiny information pieces here and there, seemingly insignificant, are actually parts and consequences of a larger reality framework.

by combining the concepts in book iv, like mind, body, spirit, and significator, and significator becoming only an individual entity by declaration of the significator being a complex, and looking at the increasing fusion of entities starting from positive 4, and going to (probably) apex in the 8th, and then going back from 3, the quite 'individual' density back towards 1st, where individualization again fades away, we can realize and articulate a lot.

at least, we can recognize wide, general, repeating patterns.

there is also the non-path of negative, separation. it keeps increasing the amount of separation, individualization trend that comes up to 3rd density, takes it further on, but from early 6d, it cant go forward. that probably implies, full separation, full individualization, is not possible.

Although the generality of 1D of the previous Octave is 8D of the next, how in the world may you deduce from this that one Octave is even remotely similar to another? It may be.

the above block. this octave, builds on the last octave's culmination. in last octave, mover/moved polarity was discovered and refined. this octave uses that polarity, and investigates positive/negative.

this means, the earlier octave, cant be impossibly different from our octave, even if phenomenonally different. also, this :

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...7#pid20387

the concept of 'reality paths'.

Allow me to demonstrate a better logic from the Ra quotes if I may. If Ra dared not plumb the depths of the next Octave, how then might we plumb the depths of the previous? You assume by your logic that everything may be piecemealed and stacked together very nicely in a hierarchical structure stretching logic to such an extent that it fast becomes illogical.

this is not logic that you are proposing. that is mysticism, and dogma. first, there is no 'dare' in this, if you think about it, you ponder about it. its not a courage challenge. you discover as much as you ponder, and learn. second, ra actually did dare 'plumb' the depths of the next octave, they just plumbed the depths of earlier octave. in Ra text, there are a few mentions about the earlier octave and its traits, and the next octave. and about entities which 'bring light' from the next octave. and, how going from octave to octave of this creation happens. that means, they have teachers, who in turn have their teachers, and the knowledge/understanding is passed on as much as situation allows.

By your logic, Ra will graduate one fine day from mid 6D into 7D, this after some 2 billion more years from now, and then spend presumably many more billions+ years in 7D until finally graduating into 8D which is indeed as you state the equivalent of 1D of the next octave.

this part is not 'my logic' this is what we learn about octaves in Ra material. each octave is a heartbeat, and a creation. all merge towards the end of each octave, and then a new octave begins. ra's mention of their teachers back during their 3d experience 'having started their journey back to creator' and hence don's questioning about them being meaningless, implies a lot of things itself alone.

first, there is a concept of 'journey back to creator'. it doesnt happen in an instant, it is a journey that starts. since, from other mentions of 7d being a density that opens to infinity, and the entities leave all identity and individualization towards end of 7d, we can understand that these two mentions signify the same process ;

there is a process of unification back to undifferentiated (in our octave's terms at least) infinite intelligence that takes an infinite amount of time towards the end of 7d.

and yes, since their teachers took that journey, and Ra is now nearing 7d, ra will also go through the same processes, as what they tell us, teach us, and what we can understand from the other information, makes clear. and, in addition, so we all will do at one point.

The next Octave may be constituted of an entire different array of wonder having absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this wonder in any manner whatsoever. I imagine the same may be said even within an octave of 3D to simple 4D. How then may one assume one octave to another bears any similarity to eachother?

cannot. first, we know that infinite intelligence created all existence in a hierarchical, organized manner, as per the subject that is discussed that starts with don asking 'what is the first thing in creation' and on.

that means, not only in this octave, but also in other octaves, everywhere, progress is staged, hierarchical, and organized.

if we add to this, the fact that this octave's manifestation is the harvest of last octave's information, and not only that, but we also now find the mover/moved polarity present in almost everything, and in a seemingly balanced fashion unlike our current subject 'positive/negative', it means that we are manifesting this octave with the harvest and knowledge of what we learned from the last octave.

so will be the next, with the harvest of this. and so it will go on.

10 octaves earlier would probably be a lot more different than ours. 10 octaves later too. but, if an octave could be made a measurement of difference, we could easily say that, our octave and immediate octave before, and after, would probably be closest to each other in resemblance.

Creation must begin somewhere. Those creations may likewise end as gracefully. Perhaps it begins anew in each new Octave, rather than it necessarily perceived as an ever continuing continuum in a series of evolutions from one to the other? Were this supposition so, it would be an infinitely longer evolution stuck in the creation created simply by virtue of self imposed and rigid constraints simply for having created it, rather than as a more efficient one through the experiments by the Logoi as stated in the LOO by Ra that the Logoi experiment. It stands to reason that they do so in new Octaves. We mustn't with our finite minds constrain Infinity afterall?

creation doesnt need to begin anywhere. infinite creations already exist, as per infinity requirements. the part of infinity which exists, also has to be infinite inside itself. therefore, with the part of infinity that 'doesnt exist', it can constitute infinity.

what you call 'logoi' are just individualized (as much as it can be) portions of infinite intelligence, probably manifesting local existences according to their character/biases. they are not infinite intelligence, the manifestation that is 1 level below infinity. the latter part of your post is 'unintelligible to me'.

Again, the logic is superb in some ways. But just as before it requires a jump across an abyss to make it so. 1D and 2D are not self aware. 2D acts as herd mentality completely incapable of distinguishing itself apart from the herd or its other-selves, whereas 1D is simply in a state of is-ness comprised and devoid of even being aware of its other selves in 1D in any manner whatsoever, versus 4D and above becoming aware jointly of itself as themselves as cosmic consciousness in becoming. Awareness is the distinguishing factor here which is the entire point of spiritual evolution. You may be assuming coincidence is similarity, if not perhaps reading into things which may otherwise not be there. You further seem to suggest that we in 3D are least evolved of all densities given it is the density we are most individuated in, whereas 1D and 2D are more like 4D-7D? Once again the logic contradicts itself as to the hierarchy you argue for, otherwise I might as likely argue 3D is the most special of all for being individuated unlike all other densities. Viewing it through the lens of consciousness makes abundantly more sense as the hierarchy of increasing awareness than is to view it through the lens of individuation, being together in 1D, then coming apart in 2D and 3D, then together again in 4D - 8D, all as a result of the train that began the logic due to 1D being 8D in the next Octave.

there is no jump over the abyss. what is called 'self' is an individualization of coherent intelligent infinity, probably through use of something that is probably a longer discussion topic itself.

the 1d, 2d, all manifestations are also aware, and aware of their own selves, however, they do not manifest and act as an 'individual', they dont think of themselves as such. the same pattern starts from 4th density and on, as entities increasingly meld with each other again, to the point of 60 million entities in Ra referring to themselves as 'i am Ra' in total, instead of 'we are'. that means, the differences and invididuality of them each are being meld into a 'group consciousness' as you name it.

the most 'individualized' entity would probably be the early 6d entity, which has gone and tried the path of extreme separation, and hence individualization. which fails in the end, and the entity goes back to merge with the rest of infinite intelligence, from wherever it will.

consciousness is not related to individualization. advancedness is not related to individualization. hierarchy therefore, is not related to individualization.
8d's difference (of this octave) from 1d of this octave is, 8d spirit collectives vibrate in a much higher frequency than 1d spirits, and therefore, know of their own nature more. in that, there is a hierarchy. in that, a 3d vibration is higher in hierarchy of advancement than 1d vibration. however, there is no relevance to individualization in this hierarchy.

individualization is apparently something that is used to discover and experience possibilities, make the nature of the spirit (probably infinite intelligence, ie existence) come out in more detail and examine them. when any kind of particular focus is discovered enough by its focus holder, the focus is left behind towards end of 7d, all identity, 'individualization' is left behind, and the energy melds back into infinity.

By this logic, 3D entities lagging without graduation for the ump-teenth time in millions of years + of their sojourn, and who as a result of non-graduation are dispatched all about the galaxy to other suitable 3D planets due to not graduating to planets going 4D, is all as a result of bad planing on the part of the LOGOS (???) rather than inefficient utilization of experience of catalyst on the 3D entities part, which is the whole purpose for the plan of the Logos to begin with. Although Ra never utilized the term laggards, inefficient use of experience is tantamount to the same thing in terms of the speed at which some polarize and others do not choosing instead to sleep on.

first, remember book iv, and remember that the archetypes of mind are not always the same in each logos. each logos differentiates it.

if, archetypes of mind can be different from logos to logos (to the point of Ra being unable to function well in other galaxies as wanderers due to difference in archetypes), it means that 'utilization of experience of catalyst' will also be different from logos to logos, not only for 3d, but for all densities in the locale that utilizes that particular logos's archetype of mind.

refer to the graduates during light veil (ra for example), refer to the VERY few graduates, 1 planet destroyed (around 2 billion souls unable to complete 3d), 1 planet rendered unable to support 3d life (number of souls unknown), and 1 planet heavily damaged, and constantly on the brink of possible destruction as of now. and yet, even with all the effort spent by (curiously) wanderers who graduated at the time of light veil, still harvest is told to be going to be small, by Ra, from among 7 billion entities incarnated on this planet. not counting those who are not incarnated, and who have come and passed through this planet.

this, pretty much lays the blame on the archetypes employed by this logos, rather than 'inefficient use of catalyst' by 'lazy laggards'.

but that there are basic core principles which you either extrapolate into new directions, or simply interpret in other ways. I am open to exploring more of what you see as a means of exercising and stretching my own constraints, but would ask always for specific references, given we are hopefully engaging in the study of the LOO exclusively. We are, aren't we?

searching for threads started by me, you will find my replies to a lot of what you ask above. noone can keep reiterating and reposting pages long of posts, everytime someone who have joined the discussion at a later time, asks.

This would be so by your explanation for all densities...with the exception of 3D presumably?

all densities, and possible existences.

the 3d of this logos seems to have a lot of issues with energy flow from above and below getting hampered due to the extreme veiling it chose, apparently.

I stand corrected. 2D is by your interpretation also included as furthest removed from the evolved state of 1D as a result of it being closest to 8D, notwithstanding that 8D is in an entire different Octave which we know absolutely nothing of.

this is a wrong approach. existence is continuous, tied together. that is why the later parts of the 8d of last octave, we see in front of our eyes as of now. and how we can also on occasion, see, the early parts of the 1d of next octave, as 'light' or other manifestations, depending on psychic phenomenon/experience.

I get that 1D is 8D. But that oh so fine "discreet" distinction from one Octave to another on the scale of a Piano may be as non-discreet as from one Piano to another Piano, if not one instrument to another so as to make it "discreate", as in annihilating what we know, from one CREATION to another by virtue of crossing that oh-so-fine and discreet 7D to 8D which is 1D....in the NEXT Octave.

a creation is not annihilated during passage of octaves, you are forgetting the concept of time.

7d is a point at which the experience from multiple parallel existences of an individual (individual here being the mind/body/spirit complex totality) are merged into one totality, from all the individual parts/fragments of that totality that exist in different universes. it means, while the totality exists in 7d, a number of individual 3d entities also exist in various parallel universes, (inversely proportional to balance to the totality it seems, since Ra says the finer the balance, the need to experience parallel universes/existences lessens).

just like how a 6d higher self, is the future of a 3d individual, yet they exist at the same time, and 6d entity can aid and help its past 3d existence ...

this, implies that, this creation, octave, will still be here, in time, in infinity, in existence, when we all merge into one to pass to the next octave.

then, what is that passes from octave to octave ? focus points of consciousness , infinite intelligence ?

that is a larger topic in itself probably.

I believe I do. I believe I must. I believe I do not know. It seems there exists the progression of evolution of consciousness such that it infinitlely continues in ascension. If I was 1D and 2D, and now am 3D, or have wandered from 6D so that I may progress to 8D and infinite Octaves beyond that, I may wander back to become a Galactic Logos by this reckoning, or choose to ever ascend upwards instead by never being a Logos. It is interesting that you even asked in as much as it is you that proposes all is infinitely possible in infinity.

manifesting as logos may be a feature/stage of 8d, like an atom of early 1d.