Questions regarding the LOO, STS and Religions

[Quantum]

Greetings Fellow Seekers. Having just exited the thread "There isn't that much freedom" regarding questions of Infinity and wherein questions with respect to the LOO cropped up, I wonder if I may pose one.

Raised in the Judeo-Islamic-Christian (hereinafter referred to as JIC) traditions that so many of us have been, and then having found the LOO, and having studied it so thoroughly, and then having struggled to have it fit seamlessly into the confines of the aforementioned JIC, wherein everything has been placed as nicely into its appropriate corners and tucked away as much as possible, do any of you who were raised in either of these traditions also at times stumble on at least one core philosophical principle, or more, of the LOO such that the corners of the LOO sometimes protrude slightly out here and there at times, or even come slightly loose at others, notwithstanding that some of the principles of the aforementioned books of JIC seemingly melt.

Specifically a case in point: STS vs STO - How do does one raised in said traditions of JIC reconcile that one may at mid 6th density merge into Heaven, so to speak, by in fact having traversed the paths of deprivation, depravity, degradation, and just a whole lot of general degeneration (lots of "D" words)...( basically Hell), and presumably in fact the deeper one descends into hell through these "D" actions the more then is one rewarded and the more expeditious his path to heaven is opened up to him?

*side note: please go with the JIC references of Hell, purgatory, sin, redemption, and Heaven in order to accommodate the humor if not the point.

Does it sometimes, even momentarily, stump you after you close your LOO books, study guides, sign off the forum, close down the Quo sessions, etc, and then turn on the news to see all manner of horrendous and dastardly deeds performed on the planet and its peoples at large, to know that these acts are part of the fast track to God as much are are Mother Teressa's?

I will be curious to see the responses to what otherwise seems to be an elementary question upon which the LOO rests upon...

...L/L...

~ Q ~

[C-JEAN]

Hi, Quantum.

Raised in the Judeo-Islamic-Christian. . .and then having found the LOO,

____Your question/message gives me the desire to say 1 opinion,
and 1 fact:

1= My opinion is: There are mostly 2 things, in the world,
that make the MAJOR troubleS/problemS/warS: religions and petrol.
( True or not? That is another story.)

2= The LOO answered for me MUCH MORE to my questions
than the catholic religion (I was forced to learn when I
was young because it is the majority where I live) did !

____Now? I try to be STO as much as I can, and I try to
keep positive as much as I can. . . B-)
____That mentality came to me after seeing
"What the BLEEP!? down the rabbit hole" !
____We create our own reality, and our mind controls
matter/synchronicities. . . much more than we think.
Think about "random generators" and "placebo effect".

Blue skies.

[Quantum]

Hi, Quantum.
1= My opinion is: There are mostly 2 things, in the world,
that make the MAJOR troubleS/problemS/warS: religions and petrol.
( True or not? That is another story.)
2= The LOO answered for me MUCH MORE to my questions
than the catholic religion (I was forced to learn when I
was young because it is the majority where I live) did !
____Now? I try to be STO as much as I can, and I try to
keep positive as much as I can. . . B-)
____That mentality came to me after seeing
"What the BLEEP!? down the rabbit hole" !
____We create our own reality, and our mind controls
matter/synchronicities. . . much more than we think.
Think about "random generators" and "placebo effect".

Thank you for the thoughts C-Jean. I too agree that the LOO has been a true gem of a path for having discovered it. No question about it.

But to the primary question: do you (as a recovering Catholic -humor intended) at times stumble with the opportunity/possibility of STS at mid 6D simply merging into heaven (so to speak - at the level we think...lol) for having traversed this track by their very so called un-Christain STS nasty deeds? By this I don't mean to dissect what STS is, or that STS may be viewed as a viable path, or that STS is larely misunderstood. I simply mean to imagine the nastiest most selfish horrible individual capable of sustaining horror able to megre seamlessly into 6D.

Let me be clear that I accept this and do not challenge it as an LOO concept. I am simply asking do some of us stumble in any manner with it for having been raised otherwise?

~ Q ~

[3D Sunset]

Does it sometimes, even momentarily, stump you after you close your LOO books, study guides, sign off the forum, close down the Quo sessions, etc, and then turn on the news to see all manner of horrendous and dastardly deeds performed on the planet and its peoples at large, to know that these acts are part of the fast track to God as much are are Mother Teressa's?

I will be curious to see the responses to what otherwise seems to be an elementary question upon which the LOO rests upon...

...L/L...

~ Q ~

Hi Q,

You ask a very interesting question, and one which I think it is difficult to answer definitively. Your question is very similar to asking if someone is ever prejudiced based upon race, sex, religion, age, etc. The politically correct answer is "No". The truth is almost always "Sometimes, but I'm not proud of it, and I really try hard not to be."

So, my direct answer to your question is "Yes, sometimes I am at least momentarily stumped by that fact, but I really try hard not to be."

First let me explain why I am occasionally stumped. It isn't really due to my JIC upbringing, as much as it is due to my inherent sense of fairness and empathy. I do recognize that my sense of horror at some of the actions is, in reality, just the manifestation of a personal preference on my part, so to speak. But the issue (to me) boils down to one of restitution and recompense. It would seem that the STS entity is essentially given a "free ride" for their deeds. This need for restitution transcends my JIC training, because it is found in the heart of every religion of which I am aware (in the form of underworld tortures, karmic debts, etc.).

This has led me to consider, in some detail, the process by which an STS entity switches polarity in mid-sixth density. It would seem to me that this process - since it necessarily first involves recognizing that the other self is, indeed, a part of the self - MUST involve forgiveness of the self and by the other self. It would seem to me that during this epiphanic (if I may create an adjective) and cathartic process, that all deeds are examined, accepted and forgiven, as must be the case for an STS polarity to diminish.

There have been many discussions on other forums lately about areas where one's personal belief system is contrary to that of Ra. We have now entered into this zone in mine. For it seems to me that, in reality - in order to move past mid-sixth density and begin the inner spiral back into the One Infinite Creator - it is not an STO polarity that is needed, but rather a totally balanced entity must result. That is to say that in releasing their STS polarity (through whatever process is necessary), it would seem to me that all the actions that were taken to lead to the polarity must be balanced with the opposite action/intention. It would also seem to me that the STO entity must, by necessity balance all STO actions (that is to say, they must forgive themselves for the actions in which they placed the other-self in higher regard than they did the self). I think that this is the ultimate process of atonement (recall that "atonement" literally means at-one-ment) and forgiveness. It would seem to me that once the polarity is ultimately balanced (by accepting the other path's viability through consideration of each action that led to the entity's polarity), then and only then is the entity ready to move forward and return to source.

This is just my 2 cents, but thank you for this thought provoking question.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[peelstreetguy]

Hi Quantum, Interesting question.

For the record,
I went to Catholic sunday school and church when I was a child. We stopped going when I was about six years old. When I was in my late teens I started reading about Western High Magic. I studied comparative religion for one year in university. In my mid twenties I decided to read the entire bible. I couldn't even finish reading the old testament (which I believe is part or most of the torah) because I found it foul and disgusting. The exact opposite of resonance with me. So I went ahead and started reading the new testament. I found it much better and even some resonance with me here and there as I read it.

My thoughts about your question.
When I found the LOO, it freed me entirely of any religion or religious crap. It made me ultimately realize what a STS joke the whole buisiness is! In my opinion the only thing worth while in the major religions are some of the mystic teachings, which are quite separate from the dogma.

The pain, suffering and all the other horrors bother me deeply!!! I try to remind myself that this is an experiment that is not going as expected and it is an illusion after all. Somehow this does not quite comfort me anyway. Because I still care. If I experience pain in a dream, when I wake up I don't feel fine because it was "just a dream". It bothers me because I felt the pain anyway. I feel the same way about the people and the planet. A lot of times I think there is way more extreme catalyst than needed. But then again look at the state of this planet. Way too much apathy, so STS continues to get away with it.

I would love for Q'uo to describe in detail the method by which STS switches to STO...........

[Quantum]

Does it sometimes, even momentarily, stump you after you close your LOO books, study guides, sign off the forum, close down the Quo sessions, etc, and then turn on the news to see all manner of horrendous and dastardly deeds performed on the planet and its peoples at large, to know that these (STS) acts are part of the fast track to God as much are are Mother Teressa's?
...I will be curious to see the responses to what otherwise seems to be an elementary question upon which the LOO rests upon...

Hi Q,
...The politically correct answer is "No". The truth is almost always "Sometimes, but I'm not proud of it, and I really try hard not to be."
So, my direct answer to your question is "Yes, sometimes I am at least momentarily stumped by that fact, but I really try hard not to be."....it is due to my inherent sense of fairness and empathy. ... But the issue (to me) boils down to one of restitution and recompense. It would seem that the STS entity is essentially given a "free ride" for their deeds. This need for restitution transcends my JIC training, because it is found in the heart of every religion of which I am aware (in the form of underworld tortures, karmic debts, etc.).

This has led me to consider, in some detail, the process by which an STS entity switches polarity in mid-sixth density. It would seem to me that this process - since it necessarily first involves recognizing that the other self is, indeed, a part of the self - MUST involve forgiveness of the self and by the other self. It would seem to me that during this epiphanic (if I may create an adjective) and cathartic process, that all deeds are examined, accepted and forgiven, as must be the case for an STS polarity to diminish.

There have been many discussions on other forums lately about areas where one's personal belief system is contrary to that of Ra. We have now entered into this zone in mine. For it seems to me that, in reality - in order to move past mid-sixth density and begin the inner spiral back into the One Infinite Creator - it is not an STO polarity that is needed, but rather a totally balanced entity must result. That is to say that in releasing their STS polarity (through whatever process is necessary), it would seem to me that all the actions that were taken to lead to the polarity must be balanced with the opposite action/intention. It would also seem to me that the STO entity must, by necessity balance all STO actions (that is to say, they must forgive themselves for the actions in which they placed the other-self in higher regard than they did the self). I think that this is the ultimate process of atonement (recall that "atonement" literally means at-one-ment) and forgiveness. It would seem to me that once the polarity is ultimately balanced (by accepting the other path's viability through consideration of each action that led to the entity's polarity), then and only then is the entity ready to move forward and return to source.

As always 3D, I look forward to your intuitive responses as much as your intellectual analysis's. Your points are quite interesting. Your statement that "the issue (to me) boils down to one of restitution and recompense. It would seem that the STS entity is essentially given a "free ride" for their deeds" sums it up rather nicely. Our conventional lessons in Christianity, Judaism, and Islamic faith based systems all seemingly melt against the backdrop of the LOO with respect to this free ride and pass that STS seemingly gets. I am somewhat well versed in Scripture, but perhaps for the more versed, I wonder if there are references to fire, hell, damnation etc or the need for restitution as spoken to by Jesus himself specifically rather than any other figure or reference generally. I say this as it would seem fair to dismiss all other references given we know that the Jesus entity specifically was named as a wanderer and successful in his mission.

As for your second paragraph above, I do understand your meaning entirely, but it still seems to resonate as perhaps somewhat of a free pass in that the STS entity, much as in a black and white 1950 movie, wherein the prisoner is given his last rights and absolution by the priest before being summarily hanged, but not before being duly forgiven as a declaration or assurance of divine forgiveness to penitent believers made after confession of sins and sent straight away to heaven for doing so. Certainly no man may know the mind of the Creator and Its mercy, but it is a stumper nonetheless. The story of the Prodigal Son comes to mind wherein the father of his household happily receives the mischievous son in question, who the good son rather naturally questions both father and son for, much less himself no doubt, given that the lecherous, lascivious, libertine, libidinous, licentious, low-down, lubricous brother in question no doubt had a much better time of it for being so.

As for your last paragraph and conjecture, fascinating. STO may have a reconciliation of sorts as well? It stands to reason perhaps. This consideration further gives me pause to previous conversations on another thread we spoke to with respect to the Ohaspe Material which to my knowledge is one of the only books so cited as having been passed by the Council as per the LOO/Ra quote. I need to delve into this thought before mis-speaking to consider it more before commenting further, but there may be some congruency present as a result of your very interesting premise.

Hi Quantum, Interesting question.
For the record, I went to Catholic sunday school and church when I was a child....When I found the LOO, it freed me entirely...
I would love for Q'uo to describe in detail the method by which STS switches to STO...........

Thank you Peelstreet for your participation. I wonder though what specifically however your personal thoughts are to the question, i.e. "does STS get a free ride or does the reconciliation make sense to you" as much as I do any other member who might have something to offer. The philosophy is clear enough, but how does it resonate with you as a past Catholic or Muslim or Jew or any other religion which abounds rather profoundly with reconciliation issues.

As for asking Quo, a wonderful idea.

Looking forward to see if it causes less or as much of a question to most.

~ Q ~

[spero]

Hey Quantum,

It seems your question revolves around why (at least in 3rd density) STS entities seem to get off easy and in the fullness of time get to the same place as STO entities who it seems get a slightly more difficult time in 3rd density.

(NB I’ve centered this around 3rd density, since I have no experience of higher densities from which to draw)

I know I quote stuff a lot but I’ve always found the following transcript from Q’uo helpful:

http://www.llresearch.org/newsletters/is...994_2.aspx

Now we return to a view of how to deal with negative entities. As a positively polarized person living a life in faith, one is prone to feel safe in the arms of the good, the true, and the beautiful. However, the entity upon the negative path feels that there is no safety, feels that there is no haven, feels that it and only it shall be the one to be counted upon and relied upon. Therefore, this entity wishes to build personal power with a greater initial reason and impetus for building a magical personality. Furthermore, this magical personality is simpler to build that the positively oriented magical personality. The negative entity need only attempt to accrete to the self all possible power of any kind whatsoever without the need for discrimination or judgment. The positively polarized entity, instead, is moving through processes of balancing the seemingly opposite of all things to ascertain the most careful balance of truth, of beauty, and of goodness. For to the positively oriented entity it is clear that the illusion has the appearance of a bias toward negative events and circumstances. In order to clarify right action and the positive use of power careful balancing of all stimulus needs must be done.

Thus each of you has the seemingly more difficult task in living a chosen life of faith, for both paths are given by the One Infinite Creator. Although the Creator offers suggestions implicit in experience that the positive path of serving others is preferable and more to be desired, the negative path beckons and it also is, as this instrument would say, godly in that there is no energy but that of the One Infinite Creator. Further, the nature of your experience in third density offers simpler beginnings to a metaphysical base of power for those which choose negativity. What is not obvious is that the negative path becomes more and more difficult until at last it is a road impossible to be walked, whereas the positive path is eternal
...


...In the case of the very few who have the energy and endurance to pursue the path of control over others to the point where they are able directly to contact metaphysical sources of negativity the situation, while no less solvable, is not as easy and as simple to deal with from the standpoint of the one greeted. Again in the unthinking person of third density the response to perceived attack is counter attack. It takes a good deal of wisdom to be able calmly and objectively to gaze upon the face of malevolence, for those who have contacted those metaphysical sources which are of fourth density have garnered to themselves two things: firstly, a third-density personality within incarnation and sureness and confidence that there is in such entity a true blackness of spirit, a honed hatred which sees no shadows. The positive path is full of shadows, of questions and doubts, of continual learning and balance. The choice for positivity is not the choice for simplicity of early lessons. The choice for negativity is a choice for simplicity of early lessons. Thusly an entity which is negative has an apparent advantage once it has progressed to a certain point of being absolutely sure of the self without the need for faith, whereas the positively polarized entity is still dealing with the endless and confusing shadows of the spiritual landscape which is lit by the dim star of hope and the thin delicate moonlight of faith.

I recommend the entire transcript

So to answer your question, at least in 3rd density, STS entities seem to have it easy, but apparently it become more difficult to progress along this path in the higher densities whilst I’m guessing STO entities plod along at a smooth pace.

So it all balances itself out, though I suppose since were in 3rd density with a veil over our eyes it does seem a little biased.

Spero

[LsavedSmeD]

Hi, Quantum.
1= My opinion is: There are mostly 2 things, in the world,
that make the MAJOR troubleS/problemS/warS: religions and petrol.
( True or not? That is another story.)
2= The LOO answered for me MUCH MORE to my questions
than the catholic religion (I was forced to learn when I
was young because it is the majority where I live) did !
____Now? I try to be STO as much as I can, and I try to
keep positive as much as I can. . . B-)
____That mentality came to me after seeing
"What the BLEEP!? down the rabbit hole" !
____We create our own reality, and our mind controls
matter/synchronicities. . . much more than we think.
Think about "random generators" and "placebo effect".

Thank you for the thoughts C-Jean. I too agree that the LOO has been a true gem of a path for having discovered it. No question about it.

But to the primary question: do you (as a recovering Catholic -humor intended) at times stumble with the opportunity/possibility of STS at mid 6D simply merging into heaven (so to speak - at the level we think...lol) for having traversed this track by their very so called un-Christain STS nasty deeds? By this I don't mean to dissect what STS is, or that STS may be viewed as a viable path, or that STS is larely misunderstood. I simply mean to imagine the nastiest most selfish horrible individual capable of sustaining horror able to megre seamlessly into 6D.

Let me be clear that I accept this and do not challenge it as an LOO concept. I am simply asking do some of us stumble in any manner with it for having been raised otherwise?

~ Q ~

STS entities are not necessarily put through hell from their perspective. They find the Love for themselves, it is their heaven. Hell would be an eternity of suffering according to some religious dogmas, but a STS entity may not be suffering if it enjoys serving itself.

Not to mention it isn't a free ride, serving the self is just as difficult and is serving the Creator just as much as STO.

STS entities can easily switch to STO, the only reason they don't until 6th density is because they have no reason or desire to until they realize the only way they will become more empowered is to switch to the positive polarity - which is instantaneous.

[βαθμιαίος]

Not to mention it isn't a free ride, serving the self is just as difficult and is serving the Creator just as much as STO.

I agree. Service-to-self entities spare no effort to polarize. They work just as hard as service-to-others entities do. It's not easy to manipulate other-selves in exquisite propriety. There's always someone younger gunning for your position, or someone more powerful that you're trying to neutralize or conquer.

[3D Sunset]

Not to mention it isn't a free ride, serving the self is just as difficult and is serving the Creator just as much as STO.

I agree. Service-to-self entities spare no effort to polarize. They work just as hard as service-to-others entities do. It's not easy to manipulate other-selves in exquisite propriety. There's always someone younger gunning for your position, or someone more powerful that you're trying to neutralize or conquer.

Hi βαθμιαίος,

The problem with replies to replies to partial quotes, is that they are usually taken out of context, this being a case in point. I never said, nor meant to imply, that the STS path was in any way easier than STO. I quite agree that it is just as difficult, if not more so, at least at times.

The "free ride" was referring to the ability to rejoin with the creator without first having to pay a karmic price for their deeds that caused harm, distress, or fear to other selves. If we are to accept Ra's (and Q'uos) comments at face value, it seem that STS entities do not build karmic debt for their actions, and they must "simply" release their STS polarity and (seemingly instantaneously) convert it to STO in order to proceed past mid-sixth density. This is what I referred to as the lack of restitution / recompense (which I pithily called a free ride) in my earlier post, and this is the issue which led me to my understanding that is at odds with Ra's.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[βαθμιαίος]

Ra said that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. Presumably, when sixth-density negative decides to release its polarity, it must do a great deal of forgiveness. I'm not sure that that would be an easy or instantaneous task.

[Quantum]

Hey Quantum,
It seems your question revolves around why (at least in 3rd density) STS entities seem to get off easy and in the fullness of time get to the same place as STO entities who it seems get a slightly more difficult time in 3rd density.
I know I quote stuff a lot but I’ve always found the following transcript from Q’uo helpful:
http://www.llresearch.org/newsletters/is...994_2.aspx

Hello Spero,

I don't believe we've ever had the pleasure. Never apologize for finding these gems of quotes my friend. It is one of our primary reasons and foundations for being here. I'm not sure it is that STS necessarily gets off any easier in 3D as much as the question to whether they seemingly get off easier as a pass in 6D? The mafia chieftain that ends up face down in public in his bowel of spaghetti at Alfanso's Restaurant, or the STS Politco exiled or hanged (think Sadam Hussien) might argue otherwise. To your point however, this is not to suggest that STS does not in fact have a seeming advantage to STO in 3D. They surely do, if they can get away with it, as surely as I can win in a game of cards every single time with an Ace up my sleeve, if I can get away with it. It is their pass in 6D that I ponder. To the Quo quote you provide, it does bring up considerations similar to what I alluded to as a result of 3D's comments which forced me to consider the possibility that perhaps it is that STS in later densities having it more difficult is their penitence? This of course may simply be me simply looking for their said state of penitence and recompense as a means of bringing balance to the equation where in fact none may be needed? Maybe they just get a free pass? What do you think?

...In the case of the very few who have the energy and endurance to pursue the path of control over others to the point where they are able directly to contact metaphysical sources of negativity the situation, while no less solvable, is not as easy and as simple to deal with from the standpoint of the one greeted.

This simply means they have it as hard. But do they have it harder as a means of balancing the seeming ease which they presumably had first? Or is the fact that the one greeted at this point by STS has it easier which is sts's difficulty and pain as recompense? It aint easy to figure. Below is your thought to the same point.

So to answer your question, at least in 3rd density, STS entities seem to have it easy, but apparently it become more difficult to progress along this path in the higher densities whilst I’m guessing STO entities plod along at a smooth pace.

STS entities are not necessarily put through hell from their perspective. They find the Love for themselves, it is their heaven. Hell would be an eternity of suffering according to some religious dogmas, but a STS entity may not be suffering if it enjoys serving itself.

Hello LSD,

Interesting point. To the converse then, STS suffers if they are subjected to heaven (in the STO sense) of perhaps being forced to give, or save, or etc. But see, I go in a circle again given that is near impossible to see that their recompense is that they may not kill, or maim, or steal. As a result, I return to: do they get a free pass simply for hitting the wall at 6D and thus simply merge to the path of STO?

Thanking you for your input....looking forward to more...

~ Q ~

[LsavedSmeD]

It isn't a free pass considering they had to serve the Creator just as much as a positive entity serves the Creator.

The positive entity finds it more difficult in 3rd density than compared to a negative entity who finds it more difficult in the later densities, it's balanced out even though at this current time nexus it does not seem that way. Our perspective is very fragmented in comparison to the grand picture.

Serving the self is just as difficult as serving others.

Especially if you are on the negative path and start feeling sorrow for an other self. This is why I could not be sts, because I feel so much sorrow for others even people that have done wrong. When I grew up as a kid I would feel bad for the antagonist (lol was protagonist originally my bad!) or 'evil' character in some movies because I knew that they were hurt too - quite the opposite of the majority of people.

You are selfless in sto, but in sts you are lonely - disconnected. There's no free ride. No free pass. When you gain polarity in the negative sense you still gain will power and basic understandings of service, this is why the switch is instantaneous it's like having a powerful magnet instantly switch it's poles.

---

Not to mention it isn't a free ride, serving the self is just as difficult and is serving the Creator just as much as STO.

I agree. Service-to-self entities spare no effort to polarize. They work just as hard as service-to-others entities do. It's not easy to manipulate other-selves in exquisite propriety. There's always someone younger gunning for your position, or someone more powerful that you're trying to neutralize or conquer.

Hi βαθμιαίος,

The problem with replies to replies to partial quotes, is that they are usually taken out of context, this being a case in point. I never said, nor meant to imply, that the STS path was in any way easier than STO. I quite agree that it is just as difficult, if not more so, at least at times.

The "free ride" was referring to the ability to rejoin with the creator without first having to pay a karmic price for their deeds that caused harm, distress, or fear to other selves. If we are to accept Ra's (and Q'uos) comments at face value, it seem that STS entities do not build karmic debt for their actions, and they must "simply" release their STS polarity and (seemingly instantaneously) convert it to STO in order to proceed past mid-sixth density. This is what I referred to as the lack of restitution / recompense (which I pithily called a free ride) in my earlier post, and this is the issue which led me to my understanding that is at odds with Ra's.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

It is a SIGNIFICANT point to mention a cunning negative entity does not feel remorse,, because the entity doesn't see the wrong in it's actions. Just like if you were to do something you thought was right, you would not be responsible for the action even if for some reason to others it was wrong. You're only responsible for the actions that you are aware of, if I know stealing is wrong and I steal, than I shall start a wheel of karma less I and other selves forgive myself. If a negative entity knew stealing was right for the love and security of itself than there is no karma, because it believes it is doing the right thing.



It is also important to understand Karma may not play the same role in 6th density. The lesson of the density is Unity, the only way to understand unity is to understand that all is One. When the negative entity comes to this understanding (which is very, very difficult and probably a very long process) it will switch instantaneously. Negative entities struggle harder in the higher densities than positive entities. Just as positive entities struggle harder in lower densities especially 3rd.

[spero]

Hey Quantum

I do seem overly hasty in making assumptions, so I apologise for paraphrasing and reinterpreting your questions.

I think I personally find the switch in polarity in mid 6th less of a stumbling stone if you realise that polarity in higher densities doesn’t have the same meaning as it does in third. In third it necessary to build enough polarity to achieve graduation. That is the goal.

But when you move into fourth, polarity will approach near 100% on either path so other factors become more important for progression.

47.6
…
The percentage of service-to-others of positively oriented entities will harmoniously approach 98% in intention. The qualifications for fifth density, however, involve understanding. This then, becomes the primary qualification for graduation from fourth to fifth density. To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light. The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting.

I’m sure similar things could be said about progression from 5th to 6th

If I think of positive and negative time/space or space/time as environments in which one lives and acts in order to pass the time until greater awareness understanding is achieved then I find the switch in mid 6th no big deal as its just a switch in environment.

How does this mesh with JIC understandings?

We live in 3rd density and the goal for graduation is to pick a side. These JIC lessons were tailored for this choice. It must also be understood that 4th density positive entities are actually quite active in fighting against fourth density negative in their bid for gathering 3rd density converts. I would therefore not put it past them to bad mouth the other side and describe the STS path as evil and if you follow them your going to hell (which are figuratively true). Though these opinions could just as easily have been formed by 3rd density entities being caught between the two sides.

78.24
...
The fourth and fifth densities are quite independent, the positive polarity functioning with no need of negative and visa-versa. It is to be noted that in attempting to sway third-density mind/body/spirit complexes in choosing polarity there evolves a good bit of interaction between the two polarities. In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.

[Experience You]

I am to busy felling good/happy and doing my best to love myself and others.

[Quantum]

...This has led me to consider, in some detail, the process by which an STS entity switches polarity in mid-sixth density. It would seem to me that this process - since it necessarily first involves recognizing that the other self is, indeed, a part of the self - MUST involve forgiveness of the self and by the other self. It would seem to me that during this epiphanic (if I may create an adjective) and cathartic process, that all deeds are examined, accepted and forgiven, as must be the case for an STS polarity to diminish.

Ra said that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. Presumably, when sixth-density negative decides to release its polarity, it must do a great deal of forgiveness. I'm not sure that that would be an easy or instantaneous task.

Thank you for what appears to be the most simple yet profound of explanations. As shared, the question was always about penitence and recompense versus the seeming equality of difficulty expressed comparatively of STS to STO. It is agreed that action and movement requires work regardless of which side of the fence one occupies. This being the case it stands to reason that STS has every bit as much difficulty as does STO. The question is not meant to be directed at the equality of difficulty that STS has and that therefore they do not get a "free pass" as a result, but is instead directed at: does STS simply enter into heaven (in this case defined for the question as merger into 6D) without the need of rectifying in any manner thier past deeds, and thus the "free pass" which 3D aptly named as such. Or to the converse, must STS do its required recompense and penitence in order for said merger (i.e. payback, karma, etc, however else defined). Arguably this is either me stuck in said "JIC" training, or it is me speaking to the balance that must needs be accomplished by STS as 3D proposed as an explanation...notwithstanding of course that this may as arguably be 3D and myself so steeped in said JIC training that we are agreeing to what otherwise is untrue, i.e., that STS gets to simply merge unconditionally for having been so damn good at being so damn bad.

This brings me to my statement in my response to 3D with regard to the "Ohaspe Material" which has stumped me so, and as spoken to in my thread entitled "The Confederation." The Ohaspe Material for those not familiar with same is the only material to my knowledge within the LOO that is specifically named as having been "Passed by the Confederation." As such, it is not a stretch to seek for congruency between it and the LOO given that Ra too is in league with the Confederation. Perhaps one full year later to my Thread and questions within it, I may have a slight answer as a result of both your simple yet complicated responses.

Within the Ohaspe Material, there exist Gods of the lower heavens, who some, for lack of a better descriptor, are STS (think of the STS Yahweh) , and who are as such distinguished from their fellow loving brethren Gods (think STO). The STS Gods ultimately end up as a direct result of their behaviors and actions bound together in disgusting knots of ugly and unspeakable pain in a hell of their making from which they can not escape until rescued.
(*side note -STO and STS are never mentioned as such in the Ohaspe Material but are inferred for congruency sake alone to the LOO Material).
Guess who rescues them? Yep, none other than the Gods with whom they warred against, i.e. the loving STO Gods.

Now the Ra material simply states that STS finally elects to merge into 6D as a result of either their seeming entropy, or the wall they hit as regards said merger as being more efficacious. Ra in no manner however stated what is required for this merger. Perhaps as the Ohaspe Material states, the unspeakable knot in which they are bound together for millenniums is their recompense...as in purgatory, which is nothing short of a temporary hell? Perhaps not being able to merge or move further is allegorically described as this hell, and as a consequence being bound together in this unspeakable knot? As interestingly, upon their rescue and salvation into the light by their counterparts and loving brothers, the STO Gods, they see the light so bright that they seek then for another untold millennium to serve while restored to their former positions of Gods nonetheless (given one does not move backwards for having moved forward), and as Gods who serve their brethren of earth who they previously pillaged, plundered, and manipulated.

It still leaves open the question however in the Ohaspe Material the basic contradiction that the principle of reincarnation is a lie, which clearly is completely a contradiction to the LOO? So, we end up back at square one, but with perhaps several steps made forward nonetheless. Forgiveness after all is what is required above all else as a definition of STO. Forgiveness needn't even be a word necessary as an action of STO in as much as the definition of LOVE is inherent of this capacity melting it as a requirement to begin with.

Remaining curious to any input, or even if the need for forgiveness, penitence, and recompense has never been a question or issue of any particular significance as relates to STS to any others...


~ Q ~

[Lavazza]

Hey Quantum,

Great thread topic. Many of us have been raised in either the J, I, or C traditions. Myself the last of them, although it never really took a very strong hold on me as a youngster or young adult when I did follow it, and I certainly follow it no more. Nevertheless, some of the concepts taught therein seem to hold a sway, even if ever so subtly, later in life. Case in point- I still held on to residual fear of burning damnation after death even though I had intellectually given up Christianity years before. This being a long, long time before discovering my esoteric spiritual home, the LOO. (I was able to release these fears after meeting my wonderful wife, who showed me a better path with her upbringing in Unitarian/Unity/Univeralist churches. The LOO followed years later).

Anyways- the reason I bring up this example is because as you so aptly prefaced your question with a possible explanation, that being that having been raised in a JIC tradition yourself, you found trouble when attempting to reconcile ideas presented by Ra and ones you were presented with years earlier. Trying to do so is, in a word I think, folly.

In a lecture given by Don during the Ra contact years, he makes a strong point about the reason why his extraterrestial contact constantly uses the word "distortion":

All information that has ever been communicated by language on this planet is distorted. All religious information is distorted. The only way you’re ever going to get pure information is by making it back around the whole cycle, reuniting with the creative Consciousness, and then you’ll be undistorted. So this is why the word, distortion, is very important. Our contact continually uses the word distortion. All the information you have been given is distorted to some extent or another. Most of it is pretty much distorted.

Our JIC religions are indeed distorted. Verily so. They would have us believe in the sort of God who ensures a human version of justice is always and forever carried out upon those who do "wrong" and those who do "right". Thus we have the myth of Heaven, and the myth of Hell, to satisfy and justify the religious when "wrong" is carried out upon them. But, here I must turn to the NDE (Near Death Experience) literature if not the Ra material. After death, 90% of NDE'ers report that there is no final judgment as is spoken of in the Bible, Koran, et cetera. The judgment is always given from the self, to the self. I might suggest that Ra echos this sentiment, and I suspect basic and general philosophy of the bigger picture when describing the so called Negative entity in his acsention through the densities.

What I am saying, is that the so-called free pass (I now use this term independently of your context, 3D) is actually an example of distorted thinking. It's a product of our religious upbringing, and perhaps disadvantageous to hold on to. I see it as inconsequential to me personally how so and so handles his or her polarity a few billion years from now. It's interesting to speculate of course- but take care not to cast judgment. Doing so is indeed a real stumbler.

Judgment may itself be a good topic later. I've come to feel since reading the LOO that there really is no justice in the way your typical JIC priest would have it be, when you look at the real world, the real universe and metaverse. If justice does exist it is impartial or beyond our understanding. And thus seeming "unjust" situations of STS entities reaping havoc upon other portions of creation for billions or more of years and suddenly switching polarities and entering unity with the one creator to experience ceaseless bliss forever more may exist. Though we surely do not understand it with our third density / Human / Earth conditioning.

I hope this post hasn't been too rambling, I'm up late with rare free time and some cold chardonnay.

Much love to you and all,
Lavazza

[lightning]

Personally, I know exactly where you're coming from. Also, I read a lot of posts that make it sound as if the enlightened approach is to just simply dismiss, reject, and denounce Christianity or any religious approach. I would like to point out that Ra said in response to Don's query that following Christianity can lead to harvest. The breakthrough for me came with the realization that the entire narrative known as the New Testament is written from the perspective of a culture that placed almost everything in metaphor. With that realization came what seemed almost like the unlocking of a puzzle, and I am still an ardent follower of Christianity.

But the comment about STS and STO is a very thoughtful one. I wonder if we don't glamorize both of these into meaninglessness. There is no way someone can truly grasp the horror of STS unless he or she has, for example, been gassed to death at Auschwitz, or been required to witness the slaughter of one's own children at the hands of Genghis Kahn's army, or been tortured and killed at the hands of a serial killer. And these entities who did this can at some point just switch polarity and become "good"? It definitely is a little baffling. Yet on a very deep level, it does seem to make sense, but I don't think we can fully grasp it now. However, I would be very surprised and probably more than a little alarmed to find myself face-to-face with any of these negative entities when I leave s/t and enter t/s, or the afterlife. I do believe in hell, and I believe that is where the negatives go. Ra calls it negative t/s. That's exactly where the unnamed negative 5th density entity wanted to take Carla during the negative greetings she received from it during the time of channeling Ra. The only thing about the Bible's hell is the interpretation of it being eternal damnation. Some of this view came from misinterpretation and erroneous translation. Eternal simply means "timeless", or t/s. I believe there is the opportunity for these negatives to advance within their system just as there is for one who is positive. However, I also believe that from 3rd density through 6th or whenever it is that the negatives reverse polarity (if such a thing is indeed true), the two polarities should remain separate primarily for the protection of the positive entity.

[AnthroHeart]

Lightning, that was an astute observation about eternal meaning timeless. I hadn't thought of that. I just had for some reason assumed that mention of Hell was a lie and that it didn't exist at all.

LSD, I believe you were referring to the antagonist as being evil. Typically the protagonist is the good guy.

This thread is interesting. I wouldn't have considered the STS as having a free ride. They have their share of stress I'm sure.

[LsavedSmeD]

I remember Ra saying that the book had a lot of faulty information on purpose.

Don't remember where I saw it though.

Using discernment helped me read through a lot of it. Picking out the pieces.

[lightning]

I remember Ra saying that the book had a lot of faulty information on purpose.

Don't remember where I saw it though.

Using discernment helped me read through a lot of it. Picking out the pieces.

According to my understanding, that is right. I'll add my two cents worth of things that I've picked up over the years. The Old Testament was heavily influenced by the negative entity that was not Yaweh but came to be known by that name as it did the same thing that negative entities do today which is to mimic a positive channel and take over its identity. I believe that the only books of the Old Testament not heavily influenced to the point of negativity are Genesis, Psalms, and Proverbs. Genesis is very spiritual and uplifting if one sees the story of Adam and Eve as partly allegorical yet based in fact due to the creation for those from Mars of the 3rd density physical vehicles (I'm not trying to sound like Ra - I'm just using Ra's terminology) which was known as the Adamu race (that comes from Sitchin).

With the New Testament, it is very positive with the exception of the book of Revelation. There is much metaphor contained therein, especially concerning Hell and damnation, and some of it was modified by Constantine to fit more into a doctrinal picture. However, the main message that is so important that comes from Jesus is one of personal transformation that offers a means of abdication of the "self" to the Higher Self (Holy Spirit) and in doing so to reach a higher level of spirituality. In other words, to move toward harvest.

[unity100]

Greetings Fellow Seekers. Having just exited the thread "There isn't that much freedom" regarding questions of Infinity and wherein questions with respect to the LOO cropped up, I wonder if I may pose one.

Raised in the Judeo-Islamic-Christian (hereinafter referred to as JIC) traditions that so many of us have been, and then having found the LOO, and having studied it so thoroughly, and then having struggled to have it fit seamlessly into the confines of the aforementioned JIC, wherein everything has been placed as nicely into its appropriate corners and tucked away as much as possible, do any of you who were raised in either of these traditions also at times stumble on at least one core philosophical principle, or more, of the LOO such that the corners of the LOO sometimes protrude slightly out here and there at times, or even come slightly loose at others, notwithstanding that some of the principles of the aforementioned books of JIC seemingly melt.

Specifically a case in point: STS vs STO - How do does one raised in said traditions of JIC reconcile that one may at mid 6th density merge into Heaven, so to speak, by in fact having traversed the paths of deprivation, depravity, degradation, and just a whole lot of general degeneration (lots of "D" words)...( basically Hell), and presumably in fact the deeper one descends into hell through these "D" actions the more then is one rewarded and the more expeditious his path to heaven is opened up to him?

*side note: please go with the JIC references of Hell, purgatory, sin, redemption, and Heaven in order to accommodate the humor if not the point.

Does it sometimes, even momentarily, stump you after you close your LOO books, study guides, sign off the forum, close down the Quo sessions, etc, and then turn on the news to see all manner of horrendous and dastardly deeds performed on the planet and its peoples at large, to know that these acts are part of the fast track to God as much are are Mother Teressa's?

I will be curious to see the responses to what otherwise seems to be an elementary question upon which the LOO rests upon...

...L/L...

~ Q ~

the answer is simple. you simply let go of all you have learned in those religions, their dogmas, suggestions and traditions.

it is no different than dying and being reborn, just like the concept that is the basis of initiation at the bottom chamber of the pyramid.

it would be rather naive to think that, despite the entity has to metaphorically die and be reborn, getting rid of as many societal mind-specific illusions and conditionings for progressing in his/her seeking, s/he wouldnt have to let go of all that s/he has learned or conditioned to in the past, regardless of the source.

one has to leave all the attachments and conditionings behind.

[Quantum]

Hey Quantum,
Great thread topic.
....In a lecture given by Don during the Ra contact years, he makes a strong point about the reason why his extraterrestial contact constantly uses the word "distortion":

All information that has ever been communicated by language on this planet is distorted. All religious information is distorted. The only way you’re ever going to get pure information is by making it back around the whole cycle, reuniting with the creative Consciousness, and then you’ll be undistorted. So this is why the word, distortion, is very important. Our contact continually uses the word distortion. All the information you have been given is distorted to some extent or another. Most of it is pretty much distorted.

.....What I am saying, is that the so-called free pass (I now use this term independently of your context, 3D) is actually an example of distorted thinking. ...It's interesting to speculate of course- but take care not to cast judgment. Doing so is indeed a real stumbler.

Hello Lavazza. Thanks for joining in. I'll agree wholeheartedly with Don, yourself, and of course the star of our show, Ra, that its distortion all the way down. However, having stated that, its the reason we've cast ourselves into the play we've come here to be in to begin with as actors in our own drama. As I understand it, we purposefully have elected to walk in the shadows, as Ra stated, as pilgrims on our own dusty paths. To that end, and to those of us so inclined, it is our intent to tackle these question as one of the primary reasons towards the goal of polarizing, given we can not undo the distortions as such in spite of said tackles, even if the bulbs on our porch are hopefully/presumably burning only slightly brighter, even if only fractions within fraction therein, than is our neighbors porch light. To that end, the water's fine, as much as it is distorted, as much as it is wet, with the additional understanding of contracts entered into that its difficult to see underwater, much less breath in it.

What I'm driving at is that distortion is the Matrix (think the movie vs the archetypes), created as such. If we take care to distinguish our efforts of discernment from that of judgment, wherein discernment is an integral component towards the efforts of said tackling for one of the primary purposes of polarizing, all is well. If we exercise judgment on the other hand, and heavy handed copious amounts of it, it may be argued as well that all is as well...if one is STS.

It may be reasonable to conclude therefor that judgment is a very bad thing for STO whereas discernment is a very good thing. Conversely, judgment would seem to be a very very good thing as a direct result of it beings so bad, this for STS, and that if peppered very very strongly with egregious amounts of condemnation as its action thereafter an even better thing.

Knowing the difference between the two is where wisdom and love comes in (download at bottom of this text for discernment/download below that for wisdom - a-h-h-h...were it that easy....
The "free pass" question if utilized as a discernment exercise would then be an attempt towards understanding these rascals (STS) and ultimately learning to love them in the end, as we will and must anyway.

I remember Ra saying that the book had a lot of faulty information on purpose.
Don't remember where I saw it though.
Using discernment helped me read through a lot of it. Picking out the pieces.

According to my understanding, that is right.

Do you and LSD mean to state that STO purposefully placed misinformation into the Bible, or that STS purposefully placed in misinformation? If the comment is directed towards the former, then it is contradictory to STO actions and behaviors. If it is directed towards the latter then it is self-evident in that this is one of the whole precepts of STS, i.e. to corrupt STO information, influence confusion, etc? If it is directed at STO I would be extremely curious if you can find this quote or any such general information towards it.

Hello Lightening. Allow me to state fist that your previous assessment of "eternal damnation" to mean one rather of "timelessness" versus "forever" as a most interesting manner of turning upside down the conventional Christian perspective, as in a damning judgment of eternity, and one more towards an STO perspective of love and understanding which then accommodates the question of STS's merger into mid 6th more gently and one with a great deal more understanding, not to mention fitting a congruency between the two sources on this point between the Bible and the LOO.

... I believe that the only books of the Old Testament not heavily influenced to the point of negativity are Genesis, Psalms, and Proverbs.
...With the New Testament, it is very positive with the exception of the book of Revelation.

Interesting. I think I might agree to your larger point, with of course some STO in those (STS books), as much as some STS in these (STO books). They get equal time according to the Laws of the COBC (Confederation/Orion Broadcast Commission). *See said rulings in COBC manual with understanding and disclaimer that said rules must be downloaded through potentially questionable if not corrupt sources such as STS.

..However, the main message that is so important that comes from Jesus is one of personal transformation that offers a means of abdication of the "self" to the Higher Self (Holy Spirit) and in doing so to reach a higher level of spirituality. In other words, to move toward harvest.

Well spoken. I think this is almost undeniable, and arguably so as supported by Ra through their message that the Jesus entity mission was indeed a successful one.

~ Q ~

[Monica]

you simply let go of all you have learned in those religions, their dogmas, suggestions and traditions.

I agree for the most part, in terms of rigid dogma...though the religions do have some good in them, if we can see past the dogma to the essence. It's definitely a challenge to be able to sift thru all the religious distortion to find a few gems, and questionable whether it's really worth it. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

The very concept of atonement is one such religious dogma. STS entities serve the Creator too, so why would they need to 'atone' for their service?

[LsavedSmeD]

Quantum, I will attempt to find the direct words from Ra him(her)self (lol).

Questioner: Can you tell me who was responsible for transmitting the book Oahspe?
Ra: I am Ra. This was transmitted by one of Confederation social memory complex status whose idea, as offered to the Council, was to use some of the known physical history of the so-called religions or religious distortions of your cycle in order to veil and partially unveil aspects or primal distortions of the Law of One. All names can be taken to be created for their vibrational characteristics. The information buried within has to do with a deeper understanding of love and light, and the attempts of infinite intelligence through many messengers to teach/learn those entities of your sphere.

So it was purposely created under the Law of Confusion/the right not know. Not an attempt to give misinformation but an attempt, instead, to not infringe upon Free Will.

[Quantum]

the answer is simple. you simply let go of all you have learned in those religions, their dogmas, suggestions and traditions.
....it is no different than dying and being reborn, just like the concept that is the basis of initiation at the bottom chamber of the pyramid.

Hello unity100. Thank you for your participation. Before beginning, I would like to preface that in our previous discussion on "There isn't that much freedom," wherein it was stated that I suggested that you disagreed with the LOO as though a sweeping statement in its entirety, please allow me to instead speak for myself. These were never my words my friend. I said it there, and reiterate it here, given you have given me the personal opportunity to so by addressing you as personally in this discourse. It is crystal clear that you are as well read in the Material as you are in your thought processes to which I gave you full credit for in my very first exchange with you. It in fact makes it all the more enjoyable to read your offerings as well as to engage with you. Thank you.

To your consideration above, I'm not sure that "letting go" is as required as is "merger" of all that one has brought to the table through ones journey. Simply letting go, although perhaps understood as you perhaps mean it(?), is less elegant and meaningful for having gone through the journey to acquire all that led one presumably to the point of said merger, whether said merger is for STO or STS, given that both merge at mid 6th.

1.the answer is simple.....
2.it would be rather naive to think that, despite the entity has to metaphorically die and be reborn, getting rid of as many societal mind-specific illusions and conditionings for progressing in his/her seeking, s/he wouldnt have to let go of all that s/he has learned or conditioned to in the past, regardless of the source.

To the converse on both points. Nothing about our journey or its processes are simple. Were it so we would not be required to play in an eternity, however illusory, to get it right. To the second point as addressed above, "letting go of all that s/he has learned" seems to be the antithesis of the learning which was accomplished. Clearly what must be let go of is self-evidentiary as relates to those things preventative from merging at 6D vs letting go of all things learned that were required in order to effectuate said merger into 6D.

you simply let go of all you have learned in those religions, their dogmas, suggestions and traditions.

I agree for the most part, in terms of rigid dogma...though the religions do have some good in them, if we can see past the dogma to the essence. It's definitely a challenge to be able to sift thru all the religious distortion to find a few gems, and questionable whether it's really worth it.

Agreed to the extent of the STO content vs its STS content. But what one worthy source on this planet is not open to STS's willful desire to corrupt and usurp an STO intention with its dogma and rigidity? The more STO light that is generated from its source, be it the Bible, or the Koran, or the Torah, or, or, etc etc etc, or the simple calling that both STO must respond to, and that STS takes notice of, as Ra explicitly stated, the greater is its notice by STS, much like a beacon shining thorough the firmaments. One may argue then that the Bible et al is so corrupted in light of the fact that it in fact contains so much light. This was even the case of the LOO with their 5th Density visitor. The single difference with the L/L group was their foreknowledge of the manner in which the rules applied and as such their dedication to the instructions to maintain said narrow band frequency, notwithstanding that it almost cost Carl's life and perhaps secondarily on some level, if not directly on another, Don's. If the latter assumption is in an ways accurate, although never spoken of before to my knowledge, then the light of the Ra contact was successfully and tragically extinguished. To that end, these works of "the religious paths" have brought mankind much of everything we now enjoy, i.e. the arts, literature, philosophy, music, education, medicine, science, exploration, etc etc etc and even the beginning foundations of the LOO material with which to compare and grow from as a result. Religions have been as filled with beneficial results to mankind as they have been with corrupt dis-services. That's the way the game is played and the rules apply here. What is different from religion than anything else then ,but for its specific and saving grace that it at least strives specifically towards harvestability (of either path). STO is every bit as strong as is STO, in all facets, as neither is more powerful than the other. Looking for gems therefor is easy game as these works abound with them and for billions on the planet, God help us is without question worth it,less by these assumptions the billions are commuted to non-harvestability in spite of their efforts for it through this viable path. If the path is viable, as we know it is by Ra statements, then surely it is as worth it as much as are all other paths upon which STO traverses. Even Ra stated this. Students of the LOO therefore would be wise to discern the point that there are as many components of STO teachings within all religions that have done as much for the planet and its growth towards harvestabilty as have its STS components towards another type of harvestability. The compulsion for the STO student to throw the baby out with the bath water for said contents containing a mixed source is therefore less than wise given that harvestability through it for those that have used said manuals of higher consciousness effectively through discernment has had rather powerful STO effects and results. It might be argued that to date that more people have been harvested through the paths of religion than have any other path in our history. Wouldn't all agree? If not, then leaving harvestability to its own devices might have taken far longer. This is why Avatars such as Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) et al, etc etc, have incarnated and were religious teachers and scholars. Isn't it curious that they have all been religious teachers?

The very concept of atonement is one such religious dogma. STS entities serve the Creator too, so why would they need to 'atone' for their service?

Given that we as 3D find it near impossible to think without the use of words, words have their restrictions bound up in their definitions. It then becomes as increasingly difficult given that definitions then become distorted as relates to their perception, interpretation and understanding therein. We're lost in words. As it was meant to be.

To that end, the words forgiveness, penitence, recompense, etc, are the only ones that come to mind, as does now atonement, given that it is not a stretch to imagine that some mechanism of action for STS is required to merge into the STO path of 6D. As such, it is further not a stretch to assume that Love and Forgiveness are integral components of STO in any STO density, and that these components grow versus diminish the further one moves up through STO 6D and ultimately into mid STO 6D, however otherwise defined with 3D language. My intuition tells me that nothing is as seamless as simply and seamlessly getting from early 6D to mid 6D and to the point of full merger without a great deal of STO components, otherwise it stands to reason it is not STO. I am sure it is beyond our 3D words or 3D ability to understand fully, but am equally as sure that we as students of the LOO are meant to struggle towards these finer points in contemplation less they would not have been delivered to us by Ra. The words atonement, penitence, recompense are the only ones we may utilize as part of that consideration in 3D language, less we simply agree that nothing at all is required, in spite of everything to the contrary that so much has been required thus far of us to even get to 3D, much less as much or more to 4D.

...L/L...

~ Q ~

[Lavazza]

....In a lecture given by Don during the Ra contact years, he makes a strong point about the reason why his extraterrestial contact constantly uses the word "distortion":

All information that has ever been communicated by language on this planet is distorted....

.....What I am saying, is that the so-called free pass (I now use this term independently of your context, 3D) is actually an example of distorted thinking. ...It's interesting to speculate of course- but take care not to cast judgment. Doing so is indeed a real stumbler.

Hello Lavazza. Thanks for joining in. I'll agree wholeheartedly with Don, yourself, and of course the star of our show, Ra, that its distortion all the way down. However, having stated that, its the reason we've cast ourselves into the play we've come here to be in to begin with as actors in our own drama. As I understand it, we purposefully have elected to walk in the shadows, as Ra stated, as pilgrims on our own dusty paths.

Hey again Quantum- I believe I understand the thrust of your response, but perhaps not? It is that we knowingly came in to the illusion/distortion to experience just that (I agree). But I am having a hard time connecting this to your original question in which I was responding to.

Specifically a case in point: STS vs STO - How do does one raised in said traditions of JIC reconcile that one may at mid 6th density merge into Heaven, so to speak, by in fact having traversed the paths of deprivation, depravity, degradation, and just a whole lot of general degeneration (lots of "D" words)...( basically Hell), and presumably in fact the deeper one descends into hell through these "D" actions the more then is one rewarded and the more expeditious his path to heaven is opened up to him?

My long winded version of a response basically boils down to this: Religions are distorted versions of the Truth, I'm sure we can basically agree. This does not disqualify them as helpful towards the goal of successfully polarizing as you have stated in your most recent post- as a matter of fact I think that you are absolutely correct on this point. I guess what I was trying to say was that attempting to reconcile certain (distorted) religious ideas with what we can basically agree are less distorted ideas (the Law of One material), you're going to run in to serious, irreconcilable problems along the way. When this happens, it would be my course of action to decide which version of the truth you feel is least distorted and go with that, leaving the other behind.

In specific with regards to your example, I think the "problem" (if we may call it that) is that JIC view of the STS entity's actions can be called depraved, degrading and so forth. Heck- I'll say so too. From what I've seen on the news lately... But on a deeper and fundamental, esoteric and perhaps "Truth" level, I accept that these sorts of actions are just a part of our cosmic dance of experience. And thus the STS entity goes to "heaven". This is what we can gleam from the LOO material at least, and since I prefer and resonate more with the LOO material vs. the Bible or other texts, I am content to accept it without much concern. I guess the 'concern' about reconciling different holy and esoteric works is really what the crux of the issue is, I am correct?

I hope I didn't misinterpret your response or drive a point in to the ground. Did this make sense?

Love and Light,
~Lavazza

[lightning]

What I was saying by the negative info being intentional was not that it was intended by the positive entities behind the Bible. However, as Ra said on at least one occasion, equal opportunity must be given to the negative entities. Ra said Moses, or Moishe, was extremely positive. Therefore, the Yaweh he thought that was leading the Hebrews was a negative entity who was mimicing the original Yaweh who was positive. However, that brings up another question I've always had as to whether the original Yaweh was a SMC, and if so, then what density? Did Ra ever say? But I know everyone already knows this about this switch which was well covered by Ra. To answer the question though, I was not saying that disinformation was placed by the positive entities. They probably did everything they could to prevent it.

[Monica]

It might be argued that to date that more people have been harvested through the paths of religion than have any other path in our history. Wouldn't all agree?

Not necessarily. Although many who followed a religion have undoubtedly been harvested, it is debatable as to whether it was because of their religious choice or despite it.

This is why Avatars such as Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) et al, etc etc, have incarnated and were religious teachers and scholars. Isn't it curious that they have all been religious teachers?

I don't think any of those avatars were religious teachers. I consider them spiritual teachers. The religions (containing rigid, religious dogma) were started by their followers, who mistakenly attempted to turn their teachings into dogma, thereby distorting and corrupting the original teachings.

The very concept of atonement is one such religious dogma. STS entities serve the Creator too, so why would they need to 'atone' for their service?

The words atonement, penitence, recompense are the only ones we may utilize as part of that consideration in 3D language, less we simply agree that nothing at all is required, in spite of everything to the contrary that so much has been required thus far of us to even get to 3D, much less as much or more to 4D.

The STS entities have been serving the Creator all along. If anything, their path has been more difficult than ours. We cannot begin to imagine what their path is like. It may appear peachy to us in this density, but we really don't know what it's like from their perspective.

Might I suggest using terms that convey the learning of lessons, rather than the paying of a penance for past 'sins' which tends to conjure religious connotations.

---

I guess what I was trying to say was that attempting to reconcile certain (distorted) religious ideas with what we can basically agree are less distorted ideas (the Law of One material), you're going to run in to serious, irreconcilable problems along the way. When this happens, it would be my course of action to decide which version of the truth you feel is least distorted and go with that, leaving the other behind.

Well said!

[LsavedSmeD]

STO is harder at the beginning and easier towards the later densities, it is the opposite for a negative entity where it is easier in the beginning but more difficult towards the later densities.


Also from a negative entities perspective stealing to better the self is not viewed by a true negative entity as being wrong, for it does so in Love - Love of the self. That is why their is no negative consequence in that perspective. Whereas if a Positive entity had stolen something knowing it is not helping other selves will have a negative reaction. With great power comes great responsibility - whether it be in the pursuit of empowerment of better radiating Love to others or the empowerment of radiating Love for only the self each polarity creates a momentum of Love.

If a Negative entity was at 95% exactly and a Positive entity was at 51% exactly they would feel the same amount of Love just in different directions. A negative entity will feel just as much Love for itself as a Positive entity feels for others.