The conditions of positve/negative 4D

[Manjushri]

16.50 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a small description of the conditions [in] fourth density?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

38.14 Questioner: All right, I’ll just ask this one. I have here that— could you give me some idea of what conditions are like on a fourth-density negative or self-service planet? Can you do this?
Ra: I am Ra. The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy. Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form the dominant patterns of combined energy.

The early fourth density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure.

This, as you may see, is often quite damaging to the further polarization of fourth-density negative entities, for the further negative polarization can only come about through group effort. As the fourth-density entities manage to combine, they then polarize through such services to self as those offered by the crusaders of Orion.

You may ask more specific questions in the next session of working. Are there any brief queries before we leave this instrument?

What's in bold seems like a huge contradiction to me.

It is not impossible to cause disharmony, and the beginning phase is a huge struggle. So, is 4D nothing but free-will-less pre-destined slavery?

[Jade]

I think maybe towards the middle/end of 4D will we get the "not of disharmony in any way" vibrations. Ra said earth specifically would have a hard time at the transition. I firmly believe we're in (very, very) early 4D and for many yes, this is a big struggle, but the vibrations get ever-so-lighter each day.

6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to progression of the cycle at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

[Aion]

16.50 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a small description of the conditions [in] fourth density?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

38.14 Questioner: All right, I’ll just ask this one. I have here that— could you give me some idea of what conditions are like on a fourth-density negative or self-service planet? Can you do this?
Ra: I am Ra. The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy. Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form the dominant patterns of combined energy.

The early fourth density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure.

This, as you may see, is often quite damaging to the further polarization of fourth-density negative entities, for the further negative polarization can only come about through group effort. As the fourth-density entities manage to combine, they then polarize through such services to self as those offered by the crusaders of Orion.

You may ask more specific questions in the next session of working. Are there any brief queries before we leave this instrument?

What's in bold seems like a huge contradiction to me.

It is not impossible to cause disharmony, and the beginning phase is a huge struggle. So, is 4D nothing but free-will-less pre-destined slavery?

I think the first quote refers to 4D positive and the second pertains to 4D negative.

[Jade]

Oh, well, reading the context does seem to reveal that...

[Manjushri]

I fail to see the context of the first quote only describing 4D-positive

In the second quote Ra is at first speaking of 4D-negative, but does not specify that within the second paragraph, only the first and third.

Are they even separate realities or the same level of reality just filled with entities of similarly polarized entities?

[Aion]

Why would Ra suddenly switch topics from paragraph to paragraph? The question was specifically about negative planets. The second sentences refers to the 'order of authority' which is obviously referring to the 'pecking order' which is a mainstay in 4D negative. Also, struggle doesn't necessarily mean disharmony but they seem to express it is the transition in to 4D is what is challenging but once there the conditions are as usual. Crossing from 3D to 4D isn't just a simple matter of walking through a door, or so it seems to me.

Remember 4D is where social memory complexes begin and I believe the second quote is referring to the challenges of forming a 4D negative social memory complex.

[Aion]

They are not separate, as far as I know, they are all on one level, however Ra does say that they exist without eachother or any need for eachother. I'll have to find the exact quote but basically they seem to imply that in 4D positive and negative don't really mingle too much, however it's all the same place and I'm sure it's possible for them to interact.

[Manjushri]

Why would Ra switch topics paragraph to paragraph I do not know, I only read what they said. First and third paragraphs they specify negative. Second paragraph they do not.

On topic - I envision 4D to look a lot like 3D - since, isn't 4D composed of 1 and 2 just like 3 is??

[AnthroHeart]

I do wish to live through the transition, and see each new miracle play out.

[Aion]

Why would Ra switch topics paragraph to paragraph I do not know, I only read what they said. First and third paragraphs they specify negative. Second paragraph they do not.

On topic - I envision 4D to look a lot like 3D - since, isn't 4D composed of 1 and 2 just like 3 is??

That's weird to me, it seems to me expecting too much. There are lots of times where Ra will give an answer to a topic without strictly mentioning the topic in question with every sentence. Remember, Ra was just talking, they weren't 'writing', so the divisions of paragraphs are likely not the work of Ra but of the scribes.

[Manjushri]

Fried chicken can be a tasty treat. It is juicy and succulent. In excess, fried chicken can be unhealthy.

Chicken is dry and low in fat and calories, and could be eaten quite often without gaining much weight.

Fried chicken causes obesity. Many Americans die from their obsession with it.

Do you understand my point?

Ra is future aliens from another dimension - I think people try too hard to accept what their mind assumes is what they were saying in any passage.

Also I did not create this thread. I was welcomed to the forum by a moderator who created the original thread by saying my reply and all following discussion had been removed and that he doesn't agree with my point anyhow. Welcome, indeed.

Therefore, my envisionment of 4th density matters not in the other topic. Rats.

[Aion]

Well, to be fair, are you not also making your own assessment of what you are reading? I can grant that we are not coming to the same conclusions or maybe we are but that doesn't automatically assume the degree of each of our explorations.

I did not mean to offer my thoughts in place of your own, but rather alongside your own. I apologize I am still not quite skilled in speaking with gentility.

I admit I also thought these posts were relevant to the topic of the other thread although not directly responsive to it, I suppose.

[Manjushri]

People try too hard, I said. I am a person too.

Apologies are not needed but I accept yours. Accept mine please if I sounded butt hurt, friend.

Yes I agree it was relevant, especially my answer to his original question, but I am not in power here.

[APeacefulWarrior]

I'd suggest that we may just be seeing distortions due to translation errors, so to speak.  After all, the very FIRST thing Ra said on the subject is that 4D is almost impossible to describe in 3D words/ideas.   So I don't think we can be too nitpicky about the wording when he's presumably doing the best he can to convert inconceivable concepts into rough approximations in our language.  After all, he gives similar warnings almost any time someone asks him about conditions in higher densities.

That said, for more context, rereading Session 25 might be enlightening to those who are curious about this topic.  Throughout the session, Ra explains in some detail what "battles" look like in the higher densities, including more about the struggles that 4D entities engage in.

[AnthroHeart]

It will be here faster than you think.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Honestly Indigo, I'm pretty sure the transition isn't something you live through. It's something that happens with your spirit after this life is finished. Plus, Ra said the Harvest is probably going to take centuries to complete, or at least 100 years at a minimum. That makes it pretty unlikely anyone here even COULD see the end of it, in this incarnation.

But on the plus side, that also means there's more time\lives available for those who are on the cusp of transitioning and just need a little more catalyst to make the final push. If it were over in a flash, there'd be a much smaller harvest in general.

...Oh hey, I even found a citation.

48.7: ... Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true-color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity.

So, yeah, harvesting happens after death. But that gives people as much time as possible to get their spiritual ducks in line, whatever form it takes. :-)

[AnthroHeart]

So we don't have to worry that we have to do it all in this one life. We will still have other chances in other lives if we don't walk the steps of light far enough.

[Zach]

16.50 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a small description of the conditions [in] fourth density?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

38.14 Questioner: All right, I’ll just ask this one. I have here that— could you give me some idea of what conditions are like on a fourth-density negative or self-service planet? Can you do this?
Ra: I am Ra. The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy. Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form the dominant patterns of combined energy.

The early fourth density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure.

This, as you may see, is often quite damaging to the further polarization of fourth-density negative entities, for the further negative polarization can only come about through group effort. As the fourth-density entities manage to combine, they then polarize through such services to self as those offered by the crusaders of Orion.

You may ask more specific questions in the next session of working. Are there any brief queries before we leave this instrument?

What's in bold seems like a huge contradiction to me.

It is not impossible to cause disharmony, and the beginning phase is a huge struggle. So, is 4D nothing but free-will-less pre-destined slavery?

I think the first quote refers to 4D positive and the second pertains to 4D negative.

"When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure."

doesn't sound like 4th density positive to me.

if you ask me...don't overthink this one.

[Stranger]

In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true-color yellow.

Uh, it's colorful enough to be sure -- but what does this mean?

[Monica]

16.50 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a small description of the conditions [in] fourth density?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

38.14 Questioner: All right, I’ll just ask this one. I have here that— could you give me some idea of what conditions are like on a fourth-density negative or self-service planet? Can you do this?
Ra: I am Ra. The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy. Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form the dominant patterns of combined energy.

The early fourth density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure.

This, as you may see, is often quite damaging to the further polarization of fourth-density negative entities, for the further negative polarization can only come about through group effort. As the fourth-density entities manage to combine, they then polarize through such services to self as those offered by the crusaders of Orion.

You may ask more specific questions in the next session of working. Are there any brief queries before we leave this instrument?

What's in bold seems like a huge contradiction to me.

It is not impossible to cause disharmony, and the beginning phase is a huge struggle. So, is 4D nothing but free-will-less pre-destined slavery?

I think the first quote refers to 4D positive and the second pertains to 4D negative.

"When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure."

doesn't sound like 4th density positive to me.

if you ask me...don't overthink this one.

You got it backwards. If you reread Aion's comment, you'll see that he is saying the 2nd is negative, the first is positive. So what you just quoted is the 2nd one, the negative.

...

[Monica]

I fail to see the context of the first quote only describing 4D-positive

In the second quote Ra is at first speaking of 4D-negative, but does not specify that within the second paragraph, only the first and third.

Are they even separate realities or the same level of reality just filled with entities of similarly polarized entities?

Ra's first statement in the 2nd quote clearly shows that they are referring to 4D negative, but no such distinction is made in the 1st quote. But we can tell from the attributes listed (compassion, harmony, etc.), that Ra is referring to 4D STO.

...