Why I am not a vegan

[Diana]

Vitamin B12...nuff said

Edgar Cayce...nuff said

??? I'm curious about what you are referring to.

[anagogy]

Is someone closed-minded for thinking slavery, rape, torture and murder are all wrong?

Nope.  The closed minded part is when that someone professes to accept a metaphysical precept, and then proceeds to use logic that completely contradicts it.

You're treading on the brink of hostility. I said I didn't and I didn't.

You can read hostility into my words if you want.  I don't feel a strong emotional charge towards you negatively, but I still don't believe that you didn't see a relevance between me bringing up law of attraction concepts and meat eating.  In any case, no point in rehashing it since it seems to bother you.

You are wrong. Either you haven't read all my posts or have forgotten. ALL entities create their own reality, on some level, though it becomes more conscious in the higher densities. Ra spoke of this. 2D entities start out with random catalyst, and it starts to be more conscious as they evolve.

That has nothing to do with the issue as to whether it's appropriate to provide the STS service of negative catalyst to them.

I have stated this numerous times, and even gave the example of a human who obviously DOES create their own catalyst to some degree. Remember my many examples of the human rape victim? I agreed that she is choosing that catalyst; however that does NOT justify us being the one to actually rape her!

So whether the animal chooses his/her reality is irrelevant to the point of whether we should rape/torture/kill them (or pay someone else to do those things so that we can enjoy the taste of his/her flesh).

Why you keep insisting that it's ok to eat meat just because the animal may have 'chosen' that reality makes No sense whatsoever, because that would be like saying it's ok to rape a woman because she chose to be raped.

Your examples are completely warped.  A very small segment of the population is doing the actual so called "killing" and "raping".  As for the people buying meat, do you honestly think their intent is to "kill" and "rape"?  ("Heidy ho, I'll think I'll head over to rape-mart and do me some murdering?"  That is bassackwards reasoning.  Their intent is to feed their bodily complexes with the nutrition it craves, because clearly, there is some nutritional content it can use there.  And it is not even remotely weird for the feeding of our bodily complexes to feel good.  

So comparing it to rapists and murderers (whose intent is to actually do those things) due to a peripheral association, is patently absurd, but I see vegans often do this for the shock value.  Another attempt to control the uncontrollable.

That is true, though oversimplified and leaving out the very important component of the holographic universe.

But to keep it simple (since you don't want to start another thread about that), you are still missing the point that meat-eaters ARE victimizers!

So by choosing to continue to eat meat, they continue to attract victims, see? It works both ways.

Again, their intent is not to "attract victims".  Their intent is to eat.  Is a lion a horrible victimizer because it eats meat?  It is attracting its victims.  Does it think of them as victims?  No, it just wants something to eat.  Welcome to the great circle of life.  Would you prefer instead of gazelle, it ate tofu?

so I'm probably gonna bow out of this lost cause of a discussion.

That would be delightful. Blessings to you!

And you accuse me of hostility.  

LOL!!! Haha whatever.

I won't be responding to you henceforth.

Please forgive me, if I remain skeptical of this.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

("Heidy ho, I'll think I'll head over to rape-mart and do me some murdering?"

You literally just made me spit hot chocolate all over my face from blowing out a laugh while drinking.  I got some in my eye and a bit up my nose.  It's in my hair and I just took a shower...  Heh, darn...

I'm going to really agree with this concept though, that there is this 'link' or 'bridge' that seems to be utilized where if one partakes in the end results of an act, they are somehow basically commiting the act.

So for every piece of chicken I eat, I have just murdered a chicken.  Except, I didn't murder anything, and in my mind, I thought I was ending the suffering pained energy of that piece of chicken.  But APPARENTLY, I'm in rape-mart murderin me up some dead-body-sustenance in a cruel apathetic way akin to being indifferent to actually taking a chicken and murdering it in my own two hands.

There is apparently, no difference in the two from what it sounds like.

-shakes head-
Thank you Anagogy for the laugh and oh so clear manner of explaining why I'm not a serial killer for eating meat.

Thank you Monica for providing Anagogy this present moment to make me blow up hot chocolate all across my face with his humor.

Please try to keep the subtle hostility down everyone.  Looking at this thread sometimes feels like looking at lions fighting just a tinge away from violently, while appearing playful.  Truly terrifying in a subtle sense as well.

[Diana]

-shakes head-
Thank you Anagogy for the laugh and oh so clear manner of explaining why I'm not a serial killer for eating meat.

Thank you Monica for providing Anagogy this present moment to make me blow up hot chocolate all across my face with his humor.

Please try to keep the subtle hostility down everyone.  Looking at this thread sometimes feels like looking at lions fighting just a tinge away from violently, while appearing playful.  Truly terrifying in a subtle sense as well.

And you don't think this "playfulness" is subtly being hostile to Monica or those trying to make a point about animal suffering? I am not trying to squash playfulness. But this attitude is kinda one-sided.

[anagogy]

So I asked that question to see if there was even a person in your life whose pain—physical, emotional—you were able to feel. And if that was true, I was going to say that I feel that way about everything—trees, animals, insects, people, plants, worms. No matter how much I know that nothing really dies, and I have consciously known this from inner speculation since I was about 5 years old, this does not matter when it comes to suffering. It's not about death, though I think there are many who would say they wouldn't infringe upon the life of another human but apparently it's okay to infringe upon the life of an animal, it is about cruelty and suffering. It is about compassion.

So how do you feel when you consider the fact that this system of potentials, of cruelty and compassion was set up deliberately?  Do you resent the creator for making things that way?  Why do you think it/we would do that if it is so horrible?  Clearly it knew an absolutely unthinkable amount of suffering would occur.  Seriously, just take a moment and think about all the horrors that have occurred since the beginning of this octave (and even just on this one tiny planet alone, all the way out in the milky way galaxy...let alone ALL the others in the universe).  What do you think about that?  

Perhaps, just maybe, it sees things in a different light than you do?  And perhaps, just maybe, all those horrors aren't what we think they are?

So I was hoping to make a connection in an area where you might feel something in your heart with a loved one. I'm sure you would not want to have consciously caused a loved one pain that contributed to their suffering and death. I don't mean to say that would have been wrong, only that it made you feel compassion. This is what I am talking about when I say I don't understand how anyone here can want to contribute to the suffering of animals, which we know is evident. They suffer under human enslavement to be food for us. They may have chosen it, 3D humans may never stop eating meat, but why would anyone HERE, at B4, in this conversation, and presumably a wanderer from realms where I seriously doubt factory farms exist for obvious reasons, want to be part of that cruel, cruel system?

I don't presume to be some highly evolved wanderer.  In fact, the more time goes on, the more I find people use that as some kind of elitist badge of honor, and I find it somewhat disturbing.  As for cruelty and compassion?  I look out in nature and I see animals eating animals.  Human beings are also animals.  Nature is not cruel, it is just indifferent.  People read the cruelty into the situation.  I'm not saying their isn't some cruelty jammed in there as well, but mostly indifference.  No one actually knows what another being is experiencing.  Sure you can guess based on what you observe, but I find that people simply find evidence of whatever they sincerely believed.

If you want to find reasons to feel absolutely gut wrenchingly bad, this world has endless reasons and excuses for doing just that.  I won't be participating in that, though, because while people who constantly do that claim to radiate well being, and compassion, they are really just resonating with the misery of the world.  I look for reasons to feel wonderful, and it does far more good that constantly looking at the suffering of the world, and allowing a crippling gaping pit of despair to form.  

If none of it matters (because it's all just experience) then why does Ra talk about the positive and negative paths? Don't get me wrong here, I do not follow any dogma, even Ra. But I feel our choices matter, even in the overall idea that we are creating our reality. So what do you want to create, if anything? Some here seem to feel they are just passengers in life and all is perfect. This is a misleading concept in my mind, as it excuses laziness to even participate consciously with clarity. All may be perfect from a certain point of view, but that doesn't mean then that you just indulge away in anything because who cares anyway. I can understand the idea that one can inject love into anything. But WHY would you want to actually consciously create something that now needed that love? It is like a bulimic, who self-indulges then vomits to get rid of it. To say the least it is counterproductive.

For those seeking to evolve consciously I just don't understand the needless adherence to a cruel system for any reason just because it all works out—presumably—in the end.

I never said I indulge in whatever, or that I don't care about anything.  You read that into my words.  And nothing we do matters in a cosmic sense, but it DOES matter in a individual sense.  And if I come across someone or something to help, I do, as a natural function of who I am.  But you can't help everyone.  We experience limitations in this reality, and the way I assist may be very different from the way you assist.  I don't feel a great calling to overturn the evils of factory farming.  It will dissolve in its own time, when people who run factory farms no longer want to.  My interests lie elsewhere, and refusing to eat meat (which I like to eat), isn't go to destroy factory farming, anymore than my individual vote is going to win an election.

As for what I create?  I'm a beacon of thriving well being, and I share that with everyone in proximity enough to me enough to be able to actually hear it.

Ra talks about positive and negative paths forming due to analysis of desire.  Even Ra says repeatedly through the material there is no right or wrong.  STS are not wrong, they are just exploring their desires (with the creators blessing I might add).  STO are not wrong, they are exploring their desires with the creator's blessing.  We are simply the creator knowing itself, and it is all things, so we, as portions of it, will all have different desires and motivations.  When I help others, I don't do it because I feel that something is broken with the world, and I feel so gut wrenchingly bad about it, I have to fix it.  

I help others because it feels good to me to help others.  If that seems selfish to you, then I guess I'm selfish.  

I am an evolving being too, Diana.  Am I bad because I'm a ugly caterpillar and not yet a beautiful butterfly?     

[Diana]

I am an evolving being too, Diana.  Am I bad because I'm a ugly caterpillar and not yet a beautiful butterfly?     

No. 

I'll bow out now as all of your feelings are valid, and I don't want to lay myself open anymore to be misunderstood. No offense intended toward you. But I don't seem to be able to make myself understood well on these forums, which is purely my own responsibility.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I'm just letting you guys know how it feels when the ganging up is being done on the other end.

I understand your points and Monica's, your points don't slither around logical fallacies, and your points consistently approach in kindness, even in your disagreements to how I approach Monica you do not respond in the manners she does.

I understand the message.  I got that, I even worked towards being it before a part of me woke up and said I don't like the way I was talked into it.  I gave up pork permanently, and I am trying to get my mom to also consider spending money on more fruits and veggies over packages of meat since I'm not the only food supplier or cooker in this household.

What gets to me is the subtle cruelty, the dogmatic zeal in providing pain to others to 'change them', then preaching Law of One religiously and using it to further your own opinions.

I have not seen that in a single post by you Diana.  Not.  One.

It's just like how I'm trying to cut back to permanently not eating beef, then from there turkey and chicken.  But I don't do so because of guilt, I do so because I've seen the factory farming videos, and more.  I've watched 4chan's video's of murdering animals for pleasure.  I've seen people throw kittens and puppies violently into raging rivers.
I've seen dolphins be sliced open and left to bleed to death in their own pooling blood twitching into lifelessness.

I am not the sword wielder slicing open that dolphin.  I am not that woman chucking puppies into a raging river.  I am not that farmer stabbing a pig repeatedly until it dies, boiling pigs alive, siphoning their blood slowly while alive.  I am not that man who wrangles up dead carcasses and sells them for profit.

I might slowly ache that entire process along, but I try to make up for it.  The entire time in doing so, I have been inferred as a rapist, murderer, torturer, and the one who does those things simply for consuming a cooked meal containing meat.

Let's speak of hostility in the Community Relationships forum regarding Monica.  I never saw the responses to my post asking if we could speak about the way this issue is discussed on the forums.  Last I was told, the thread was asked to be deleted.

As far as hostile goes, let's discuss it.  But that requires all of us approaching each other in the love and light of honesty and consideration for the other.  I have tried to do so, after I blatantly showed myself not even trying originally.  I even decided to gently, not brashly remark against Monica now and then.

I even tried to self-damn myself as a monster to try and help her see that speaking to others in these ways (see the last page) is no better than being as I deemed myself to be.

If I approached her any different way I'd begin worrying I'd need to dress up as a woman, and approach her as not myself at all to try and get a fresh start at helping her see her own inherent problems at how she goes about this, not what her message is.

But damn, in so doing I'm still the bad guy.  So be it.  I'm used to being made out to be this way.  I'll continue as I have been, prodding her in the side when she starts becoming cruel and I notice.  I don't intend hostility.  Just to help her see that she's being cruel.  I get why too, I'm the murderer, I'm the rapist, I'm the torturer.

Kay, off to rape-mart for my daily ass and crumpets.  In the mean time, she's there too with me, telling me as a preacher of light that it is wrong, that I am damning myself so says this magical sixth entity alien Egyptian God speaking through a transient woman of faith.  With a signature twisting the words of a passage of that 'Material' scribed from the words of that God.

Last I checked, the Law of One asked me to see all things as sacred, to accept all actions as they are.  To see all things to be as belonging to one thing.

How do I take someone using such a material so hypocritically?  I got mad, then I tried to accept it, then I did.  Now I'm just trying to make sure she doesn't do what Anagogy quoted on this page of this thread.

Become a manipulative devious player of concepts, dodging and deflecting professionally as if politically, to push her agenda while smothering the opinions of others as null and void.
As far as the Law of Attraction goes, I'm trying to help her from setting herself up to be treated so cruelly later by trying to help her see what exactly she is putting out into the universe versus what she thinks she is.

But honestly, I just want her to follow the damn guidelines and be more considerate to the opinions of others. . . You can disagree, but to call someone a murderer, rapist, and torturer for having an opinion, then throwing their own philosophy/spirituality in their face religiously.

I don't blame myself for being mad. It is madness, after all.

[Jade]

What's upsetting me at this moment is that, we are literally laughing at the idea of animals being murdered and raped (it's funny because we're only peripherally participating!), but we're focusing on Monica as the real enemy here. Don't get me wrong, I've had my outs with Monica and hardly agree with her on everything, but turning this conversation around to how it's her fault that certain people *aren't* vegan is very warped, IMO. If you don't want to be a vegan, OWN IT, don't put the blame on someone else.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Not blaming her.  Not trying to change the subject.

Just being honest with what I see and feel.

I do not blame her, I understand why she does as she does (I hope I do at least.)

It's specifically why I'm trying to reach out asking, arguing, for contemplation as to if this is truly the best manner or method to go about talking people into being vegan.

I'd call this being the change too, I see someone hurting, I'm trying to help, she is hurting others, I'm still trying to help her, others are hurting her, I still try. She hurts others, she hurts me, I still try.

Call it stupidity, but I care.  I see someone who is suffering, she needs love.  I won't offer it as a gooey-fluffy-lovey-dovey line of words asking for her to reconsider things if she's being mean or condescending or all of the above.

I just...  I just want her to hear me too.  Without just hearing me, but considering what I've said regarding what I've seen.  Just as she does to I regarding the very real horror of life as an animal for many animals fueled by human consumption.

If this is all putting blame on someone, then I shall continue to blame her for my trying to reach out and tell her she is hurting herself too.

This half-wit imbecile shall now remind you, Regulus, I've feelings too. Thanks for the remarks. They are welcome, I deserve them. Why'd you respond intending only to insult me while defending another, not too differently from I in the past?

[anagogy]

What's upsetting me at this moment is that, we are literally laughing at the idea of animals being murdered and raped (it's funny because we're only peripherally participating!), but we're focusing on Monica as the real enemy here. Don't get me wrong, I've had my outs with Monica and hardly agree with her on everything, but turning this conversation around to how it's her fault that certain people *aren't* vegan is very warped, IMO. If you don't want to be a vegan, OWN IT, don't put the blame on someone else.

I think you're misunderstanding.  Nobody was laughing about animals being murdered or raped.  That is blatant misinterpretation.  If anyone was laughing at something, I'm sure it was the absurdity of the juxtaposition I raised when I pointed out how eating meat and doing those things are completely different.  And it is ridiculous that someone would consider them to be concomitant.

Can you honestly say you have never, in your entire life, laughed at a joke involving something of a macabre nature?  Be honest with yourself.  You've never laughed at death?  If you say no, I'm sorry, but I won't be able to believe you, no matter how sincere you are. That is how unlikely I think that is.

[Jade]

What's upsetting me at this moment is that, we are literally laughing at the idea of animals being murdered and raped (it's funny because we're only peripherally participating!), but we're focusing on Monica as the real enemy here. Don't get me wrong, I've had my outs with Monica and hardly agree with her on everything, but turning this conversation around to how it's her fault that certain people *aren't* vegan is very warped, IMO. If you don't want to be a vegan, OWN IT, don't put the blame on someone else.

I think you're misunderstanding.  Nobody was laughing about animals being murdered or raped.  That is blatant misinterpretation.  If anyone was laughing at something, I'm sure it was the absurdity of the juxtaposition I raised when I pointed out how eating meat and doing those things are completely different.  And it is ridiculous that someone would consider them to be concomitant.

Can you honestly say you have never, in your entire life, laughed at a joke involving something of a macabre nature?  Be honest with yourself.  You've never laughed at death?  If you say no, I'm sorry, but I won't be able to believe you, no matter how sincere you are.  That is how unlikely I think that is.

It's interesting that you wouldn't even hear my answer before you decide my sincerity, but that's okay. I've certainly laughed at things that are macabre. It's hard for me to think of a time that I've laughed at death, that seems a little too macabre actually for my taste, but your surety that you are right convinces me that I probably have. Either way, in the context of this thread, or this forum, I don't think hyperbolizing about rape is the gentlest means of communicating your point. Yes, this goes both ways in the discussion - but rape IS ACTUALLY involved in the things we are discussing, so it's a little insensitive to be so dismissive.

But, what I find funny is, my main point wasn't about having a funny bone tickled, but the idea of blaming another for your lack of convictions. I was just pointing that part out because I've been seeing it so much lately. "Oh, it's people like you who are exactly the reason I WON'T become vegan!" - why ever, ever let one person decide such an important decision for you? I truly understand that the delivery of the message is important, but to totally wipe out the validity of what you are hearing because you don't like the messenger is hardly open-minded.

[anagogy]

But, what I find funny is, my main point wasn't about having a funny bone tickled, but the idea of blaming another for your lack of convictions. I was just pointing that part out because I've been seeing it so much lately. "Oh, it's people like you who are exactly the reason I WON'T become vegan!" - why ever, ever let one person decide such an important decision for you? I truly understand that the delivery of the message is important, but to totally wipe out the validity of what you are hearing because you don't like the messenger is hardly open-minded.

I agree, but I find it interesting that some people would indeed have that reaction, the exact opposite effect the vegan desires.  More proof that people shouldn't attempt to convert each other.  Let them work it out for themselves.

[Jade]

Of course people can work it out themselves, but it's quicker with mirrors. The thread is titled "Why I am not a vegan" and has 36 pages: those who are not vegan who are participating in this conversation need to take responsibility for their involvement, too - no one would be "attempting conversion" if there wasn't anyone showing interest by engaging in the discussion.

I mean, it seems to me that you are trying to convert Monica to a different frame of understanding, how is that different? You want her to take different actions that would unbaffle some blockages, yes?

[Minyatur]

To mirror one needs to open himself to be mirrored back, a basic rule of creation.

I think this thread reflects the love/wisdom balance which is hard to do a synthesis of in oneself. I tend to think it is the soul's background that seem to affect the perspective of each more than anything else.

[anagogy]

Of course people can work it out themselves, but it's quicker with mirrors. The thread is titled "Why I am not a vegan" and has 36 pages: those who are not vegan who are participating in this conversation need to take responsibility for their involvement, too - no one would be "attempting conversion" if there wasn't anyone showing interest by engaging in the discussion.

I mean, it seems to me that you are trying to convert Monica to a different frame of understanding, how is that different? You want her to take different actions that would unbaffle some blockages, yes?

Honestly, I don't want anything from Monica.  I'm not sure how my actions look to you, but I am simply doing what I love: discussing interesting concepts with people on an internet forum.  I don't think Monica would change her perspective even if the Ra social memory complex, itself, materialized before her, and specifically said that humans should be eating 3 servings of meat a day for optimal health.  I think veganism is just fine, and if one wants to do it, that is great.  I simply see opportunities to express what I see as truth, and I share those perspectives because people keep responding to me.  The difference between us is I'm not concerned with people acting differently than how they are right now acting.  They can go right on being animal rights activists if that is their hearts content.  It suits me just fine.    

[Monica]

NOTE: The following is NOT - I repeat NOT - directed at any particular person. It is directed at anyone who feels offended because they think I was accusing them of being a rapist/murderer. I usually avoid using the word 'you' but I am using it intentionally in this case, since it is both plural and generic. You know who you are.

For the record:

1. As per the guidelines, I do NOT consent to being the subject of discussion.

2. I'm sure that anyone intelligent enough to understand the words of Ra can surely understand the difference between doing something and having something done to them.

Until recently, I walked on eggshells, avoiding the dreaded 'rape' word even in analogies, for precisely this reason: People get their panties in a bundle if vegans ever dare to suggest that eating meat is the equivalent to raping or killing a human.

But the fact is that, in regards to what is actually happening, what is being done to the victim, the ONLY difference is who the victim is.

The fact is that in order to get that meat on your plate, a sentient being was literally raped, tortured, and murdered, in exactly the same way that humans are. There is simply No way around this inconvenient, inescapable FACT.

Now, obviously, the meat-eater's intention is different. S/he isn't thinking about raping, torturing and killing, and in fact when videos of the reality behind the meat on his/her plate is shown to him/her, s/he will surely feel disgusted and 99% of the time will get angry at the messenger for exposing the reality. In short, meat-eaters typically don't want to SEE the REALITY of how meat is produced.

Why?

Because seeing it forces them to face what they are supporting, and they don't want to do that. It's much easier to stay in denial.

So, clearly meat-eaters aren't thinking about raping, torturing and killing, like a serial rapist/murderer probably is. Their motivations for eating meat are different from the motivation of the sociopath who rapes and murders humans to satisfy his bloodlust.

That should be obvious.

However, and here is the point the meat-eaters continually miss - what is being done to the victims is exactly the same.

EXACTLY the same.

The ONLY difference is the species.

Cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, and even fish ALL have pain receptors, ALL display thought and conscious awareness, ALL struggle to escape, ALL clearly want to live! ALL feel pain and fear. ALL bleed just the same as humans.

Cows are routinely raped. Not figuratively but literally.

Farm animals are routinely tortured. Literally. For every single day of their lives.

So when I say that farm animals are raped, tortured and killed against their will, I'm NOT using morbid language to control you or make you feel guilty or any of that nonsense. I am stating simple FACTS.

It is FACT that the animal you ate for dinner today was killed against his/her will, and it is FACT that s/he was, most likely, tortured as well. It is also FACT that the milk you drank in your cereal this morning and the cheese on the pizza you ate for lunch all came from cows that were literally - literally! - raped.

For the record, I have NEVER said "YOU ARE A RAPIST."

What I said was this: "When you eat meat or dairy, you are supporting the rape/torture/slaughter of sentient beings."

Do you see the difference?

C'mon, I'm sure anyone intelligent enough to understand the Law of One can understand the difference in these 2 statements, surely?

Now, if you want to extrapolate from my statement that eating meat from raped/tortured/murdered animals makes you a rapist/torturer/murderer, that is up to you. That would be both true and untrue, depending on the connotation.

It is NOT true in the sense that you, the meat-eater, had the same motivations as the sociopath rapist/murderer. This should be obvious!!!

It IS, however, true in the sense that paying someone else to do the dirty work for you, is still contributing to the dirty deed. Just as the person who pays the assassin is just as guilty as the man who pulls the trigger.

Whether you think you have a good justification for it or not, is debatable.

Why do people pay assassins to kill someone? Various reasons: Money, revenge, power, etc. Most normal, 'decent' (whatever that means in these days of Law of One political correctness) think that assassins and those who pay assassins are the scum of the Earth.

Now, in contrast: Why do people pay for meat at the grocery store, essentially paying for our younger other-selves to be raped, tortured and killed? For money or revenge? No. Simply because they like the taste.

No need. No dire circumstances. No strong emotional charge to kill someone who harmed them, as in the case of human murder.

Simple desire for a taste. Not even needed, being that there are literally thousands of other tastes - other foods - that could satisfy one's hunger just as well, and even be healthier anyway.

It is completely self-serving.

Now does this mean it's - gasp! - STS???

Horrors!

For most people on the planet, who are doing these things unconsciously, No, of course not.

But we live in the age of the internet. It is becoming increasingly difficult for people to remain ignorant about what really goes on in the meat/dairy industry.

And, you people on this forum aren't even 'most people.' You aren't average. You (presumably) have read and studied the Law of One, and many of you claim to be Wanderers - Lightworkers - come here to raise the vibration of the planet. Some even claim to be 6D Wanderers!

For people who are aware of the suffering that their meat habits are supporting, and choose to continue anyway, it is callous disregard.

Now, if you want to think that I am judging you for thinking that true Wanderers would have more compassion than that, then go right ahead and think whatever you wish. I really don't care.

I've said everything there is to say on this subject. If anyone would like some tips on how to go vegetarian or vegan, there are a couple of threads devoted to that topic.

...

[Minyatur]

And, you people on this forum aren't even 'most people.' You aren't average. You (presumably) have read and studied the Law of One, and many of you claim to be Wanderers - Lightworkers - come here to raise the vibration of the planet. Some even claim to be 6D Wanderers!

You do realize a 6D entity (who is not wandering obviously) could very well incarnate a god of destruction on a planet and scorch things alive as he pleases? In this light, I wouldn't find it weird to see 6D wanderers eating meat.

[Monica]

You do realize a 6D entity (who is not wandering obviously) could very well incarnate a god of destruction on a planet and scorch things alive as he pleases? In this light, I wouldn't find it weird to see 6D wanderers eating meat.

Oh my, have you ever read the Law of One? What you describe sounds more like a SciFi novel or comic book, than 6D as described by Ra.

...

[Aion]

Ra never described 6D, they only gave that it is the density of unity and reconciliation of opposites but they said that there are not proper words in English to describe the states in 6D.

You do realize there are interpretations of Ra's words that are different than your own?

[Minyatur]

You do realize a 6D entity (who is not wandering obviously) could very well incarnate a god of destruction on a planet and scorch things alive as he pleases? In this light, I wouldn't find it weird to see 6D wanderers eating meat.

Oh my, have you ever read the Law of One? What you describe sounds more like a SciFi novel or comic book, than 6D as described by Ra.

...

Creating pyramids using thought forms is more SciFi novel material in my opinion.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I'm...sigh.  I'm not disagreeing with the vegan message Monica.  I just want you to be nicer on the forums.  I've already even said I'd be willing to work with you on that pursuit as I too have such work to do, not for y'all, but myself.

Its not about silencing you, I'm literally just, and only just, asking you consider your own methods and wonder if your way of going about this (from thread to thread) is actually helping or not.

Considering how you've attempted to use others emotions against themselves has caused people to ignore your message if not outright deny it from fear of being like you, That doesn't seem helpful to any cause.

I don't even know what this thread is about anymore honestly, it was about a choice, which was then assaulted.  Logic doesn't add up in this thread.

Do I dare continue bothering at all?  I dont usually attempt to help people doing such West Boro tier arguments since they're so hard to make sense of and logically emotionally handle.  I'll stop if you want me to, just say the word. . .

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Man, I seriously had to take a step back there, this insanity x-x

What is this thread about currently?

[Monica]

What is this thread about currently?

Currently, it's about Love-based Wanderers being visited by 6D aliens who want to scorch the planet!

Wanderers and 6D Alien

...

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Thank you

I'm only familiar with such information pertaining to aliens and such as to be connected to the Law of One through the... Sphere Alliance something another facebook page.  So I can immediately understand why one faction or race or civilization would want to make the surface dwellers of this planet with their increasing changes and sudden spiritual evolution's disappear.  Especially since they could just live on the inside of our planet, Ra says we're 'honeycombed' Earth shaped.  Apparently there's a chance Ra might be a really big sphere unless I misunderstood something.  (Like a planet sized sphere.)

How did a thread titled as it is go from that subject to this one??  That's both awesome and surprising at the same time.

[Monica]

Suggestion: Please everyone, read this thread, including the linked references. Please see, in particular, all the posts starting from the beginning, up through post #36. 

Bring4th Forums Two > Health & Diet  v > A Friendly Conversation: Exploring Omnivorous vs. Vegetarian Diet

Note to Mods: I really think the above-linked thread should be a sticky, next to the original meat thread. Those first few posts provide guidelines for discussing this volatile topic, along with a glimpse into the history of what's already gone down.

What a Long, Strange Trip It's Been

...

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I can agree with making only that thread a sticky.

Reading through 36 pages of responses is a bit timely.  I just assumed you knew honestly.

[Monica]

I can agree with making only that thread a sticky.

Reading through 36 pages of responses is a bit timely.  I just assumed you knew honestly.

Not 36 pages! 36 posts!

...

[caycegal]

Vitamin B12...nuff said

Edgar Cayce...nuff said

??? I'm curious about what you are referring to.

In my 20's I began studying Edgar Cayce.  It game me a much needed structure for my life and has worked well for me.  Edgar, BTW, channeled information about the Law of One back before Carla, Don and Jim (and I) were born.  

Regarding diet, he gave different suggestions for different individuals, and I don't recall him suggesting a vegan diet.  However, I am not saying he would have condemned such a diet, only that he did not say it was necessary for a moral reason.  He transitioned in 1945 so who knows what he would have thought about some of the issues we discuss today.

For most people he recommended 80% fruits and vegetables and 20% for the combination of fish, fowl, and whole grains.  He recommended dairy, but not mixed with coffee.  For most people he said to avoid beef and pork.

[Monica]

In my 20's I began studying Edgar Cayce.  It game me a much needed structure for my life and has worked well for me.  Edgar, BTW, channeled information about the Law of One back before Carla, Don and Jim (and I) were born.  

Regarding diet, he gave different suggestions for different individuals, and I don't recall him suggesting a vegan diet.  However, I am not saying he would have condemned such a diet, only that he did not say it was necessary for a moral reason.  He transitioned in 1945 so who knows what he would have thought about some of the issues we discuss today.

For most people he recommended 80% fruits and vegetables and 20% for the combination of fish, fowl, and whole grains.  He recommended dairy, but not mixed with coffee.  For most people he said to avoid beef and pork.

Me too. Cayce was the bridge between Christianity and higher spiritual teachings. Cayce was my spiritual foundation for several years.

There was definitely a Christian flavor to Cayce's readings, so I wouldn't say that the Cayce material is anywhere near as undistorted as the Law of One. I think the Cayce material has great value, but it also has a great deal of distortion; ie. flavoring from Cayce's own biases.

It is true that he recommended meat in many, if not most, cases. I also agree that the time period probably had a lot to do with that. This was almost a century ago!

Still, there were a few cases in which Cayce did in fact advise a vegetarian diet. Not only vegetarian, but vegan!

Keep the diet of those that give vitality to the body, but do not use meats if
possible, see, for we must overcome the condition through the hepatics, that is of
liver and kidneys, if we would meet resistance to cure the condition through the
larynx and lungs and blood supplying forces. [29], Cragmore Sanitarium,
Colorado Springs, Col.
...
(Q) Mr. Cayce, what diet would be recommended for this body?
(A) We find no other physical ailments within this body. This body is well
developed, good in all particulars, so far as the functioning of the organs
themselves. We have given the conditions that exist that are abnormal with the
body, whyfore, or the reason that these were given or expressed in the body, we
have given, here.
As to how they could be helped or brought to the correct vibration, to be the
metes and bounds for the reason of this body, and the action within this body, we
have given here; you see?
As to what diet shall be used in this body, we would give only those that are
of the vegetable kingdom.
No meats. As much of those that carry the life in the vegetable itself, that is,
as much of it green as possible.
You see this body understands the conditions regarding this.
FEM: (To Mrs. [105]) He says you understand the conditions yourself.
[105]: (To Mr. Mohr) That I do?
FEM: Yes.
[105]: Yes, in a way I anticipated this thing. That is what I noticed the other day.
FEM: Yes, on the same line.
[105]: Yes, it is the same thing exactly, except that it is quite -
FEM: Just wait a minute. He has some more to say.
EC: Yes, it is vegetable diet, without meats.
15. (Q) Without meats. Mr. Cayce, have you any further recommendations to
make for this body?
(A) Mr. Cayce, have you any further recommendations to make for this body.
Follow these as we have given here.
Those of the diet to produce the blood supplying forces shall be all those that
are of nature and of the vegetable, which gives to the higher order of nerve and
of blood supplying force to man and the body.
To keep as much on the outside, not indoors, but outside, within the spirit
forces of the body, as possible. Follow these lines and these channels, - we will
lead to the better development and the more rounding out of all the forces that lie
within this body here. We are through.
REPORTS OF READING 105-1 F ADULT
...
To overcome this at the present time we would use this for this system, taking
internally these properties. First we would prepare this as a carrier for the
properties:
5. Take 3 ounces of ragweed (green). Add this to 8 ounces of water. Reduce
this by simmering (not boiling) to about 4 ounces - that is, half the quantity.
Strain this off - set it aside, see? Then take 16 ounces of water, with Wild Cherry
Bark 8 ounces, and reduce to 8 ounces, see? of water. Strain this off. Add these
two together - that is, that of the ragweed, that of the Wild Cherry Bark, and then
to this add 4 ounces of sugar, first dissolved in 1 to 2 ounces of hot water, see?
Then add to this 2 ounces pure grain alcohol, with 2 drams Balsam of Tolu cut in
it. As this is cut, add 3 to 5 minims of Oil of Sassafras. The dose of this will be
teaspoonful 3 times each day.
6. Do not eat meats. Drink plenty of water.
...
TEXT OF READING 208-2 M ADULT
This psychic reading given by Edgar Cayce, this 24th day of May, 1926, in
accordance with request made by his sister, Miss [...].
1. EC: Yes, we have the body here. This we have had before, you see.
2. Now, we find there are some changes in the physical conditions of this body,
from those we have had here before. There is some improvement in the
conditions, and were the body to follow more closely those conditions as have
been given for the body we find these would, with this general improvement, be
better assisted.
3. Keep more of those properties as have been given [in 208-1] to allay the
condition in the duodenum, for these lacerations, these conditions, show some
improvement, but the over stimulation as is produced by digestion prevents the
system from healing properly. More of those properties of the Saffron water, and
the properties in the elm, will heal and assist this condition to improve. Well, too,
that those properties of the Milk of Magnesia be given occasionally, see?
4. Keep the system in that way as has been given in respect to the diet. Never
any food in the system that is hard of digestion. Never meats! The juices in
liquid may be given at TIMES, but not MUCH of that. The vegetables, preferably
the green, as much as possible, and the application of the Radium applicator, as
has been given, should be worn more consistently, would the body gain that
radiation from the applicator that brings the equalization and the assistance in the
healing as is given through that radiation.  
...
(Q) Mr. Cayce, should this body have any special diet?
(A) Live only on those things that are green and grow above the ground.
(Q) Can this body use meat at all, Mr. Cayce?
(A) That is not green. Does grow above the ground though. 4188-1
Correct these conditions and we will find this body will be able to pass the
century mark on this plane if it so desires….
Let the diet be only vegetable forces. Do not lower the plane of development
by animal vibrations. 1010-1
...
5. To meet the needs, then, of these conditions at present, we will find there will
be necessary, first, to follow this in specific ways and manners for a time; then
change to meet the needs of the system as is produced by the changes as
wrought by that applied.
6. First, be careful of the diet. While the body has come to realize there are
certain conditions and elements that the body absorbs or digests better than
others, DO NOT partake of meats! Rather the vegetable, and at least one raw
vegetable each day. Broths or soups of meats may be taken occasionally, but
not too much!
...
Take nothing into the stomach itself to produce irritation, but masticate well
that which is taken into the mouth. Not any meats, but vegetable and fruits.
...
(Q) Mr. Cayce, there is no special diet needed then for this body?
(A) Electrical vibration is better and more secure with those that are of higher
vibration to the body, not meats for the body
...
Do not eat ANY meat! Drink PLENTY OF WATER at all times, at least six to
ten glasses full each day, keeping the system thoroughly cleansed, using after
the Toris Compound has been taken those vibrations of the Violet Ray, for this
will assist and rejuvenate the blood supply and give same an equilibrium
necessary to remove the conditions in the body. Do that.
10. Let the diet be of seasonable vegetables rather than of meats, and as much
of the green vegetable nature as possible. We are through for the present.
...
EC: Now, we have those conditions as regarding the body. We find these are
greatly improved in the body at the present time.
2. We would not, for the present, take more of the Toris Compound. We would
apply those vibrations of the Violet Ray, as has been given. Keep the body free
from meats, and keep the eliminations well in hand, using small doses
occasionally of the Simmon's Liver Regulator, see? With this kept up for two to
three weeks, we will find a great improvement, and then, with the diet kept well in
hand, gradually the body will overcome these conditions in the physical forces of
same. Do that.
...
Is it necessary for this body to have meat?
(A) It would be alright to leave it out if you'll add protein in other ways and
manners. But meat has been a part of the diet in the body. Meat or its
equivalent, then, is necessary. Not too much of same.
...
5. Massage thoroughly into the cerebrospinal system equal parts of olive oil and
tincture of myrrh. These massages should be given at least every second or
third day. Use at least a tablespoonful at each time. Heat the oil, then add the
tincture of myrrh - see?
6. Keep the intestinal tract open. Do not use CATHARTICS for this. Enemas
may be taken when necessary.
7. In the diet, beware of meats; for these add to the distresses of the system.
...
Reduce by simmering (not boiling) to one quart. Strain while warm and add
four ounces grain alcohol, with two drams Balsam of Tolu cut in it, with one dram
of Balm of Gilead. The dose would be teaspoonful four times each day.
Let the diet be those of gruels and vegetables. No meats to strain the
system, and that which will act with the digestive organs as exercised and given
incentive for exercising of their functioning through the massage, which should
be applied at least twice each week. Do this. We will bring the normal forces to
this body.
...
7. In the diet, keep only those that have sufficient of the salts properties that keep
elimination in the system. No meats of any character. Vegetables, fruits, nuts,
and at least two green vegetables each day. Do not use any salt that is not the
iodized, or salt with iodine in same, for the lack of iodine is one of the things that
has caused disturbance in the system, or from improper water supply, which first
started these conditions.
8. Follow these directions consistently and persistently, for through same we will
bring about the normal forces for this body, [4600].

Edit: More quotes added. There were more than I remembered!

...

[Shemaya]

Vitamin B12...nuff said

Edgar Cayce...nuff said

??? I'm curious about what you are referring to.

In my 20's I began studying Edgar Cayce.  It game me a much needed structure for my life and has worked well for me.  Edgar, BTW, channeled information about the Law of One back before Carla, Don and Jim (and I) were born.  

Regarding diet, he gave different suggestions for different individuals, and I don't recall him suggesting a vegan diet.  However, I am not saying he would have condemned such a diet, only that he did not say it was necessary for a moral reason.  He transitioned in 1945 so who knows what he would have thought about some of the issues we discuss today.

For most people he recommended 80% fruits and vegetables and 20% for the combination of fish, fowl, and whole grains.  He recommended dairy, but not mixed with coffee.  For most people he said to avoid beef and pork.

That's interesting caycegal.  I think that is basically what I eat, what my diet is.   

To be vegan would be really difficult for me, unless I lived alone.  I probably eat an animal product once or twice per day.  Mostly seafood though, and then some chicken or eggs, and cheese, or occasionally yogurt.

I do crave meat protein still though and since my family is meat-eaters, it does put me in a position of choosing between my body's desires and my will to create a non- violent world.  Which I have embraced are not mutually exclusive.

I eat sardines a lot and mussels which others think are really gross, ironically.  I don't think anyone could convince me that eating those is " worse" than eating a carrot or potato.  

As an aside, it is interesting to me that the UN is really pushing for veganism for sustainability reasons.  Really makes me question since I don't trust the underlying motives of the UN.