Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

[Monica]

I am a student of the Law of One, not of the positive path. That's where our disagreement is. I joined because you said you didn't understand those who didn't agree with you, it seems I have failed to highlight this understanding of others.

All is well.

I never said that. I said I didn't understand how those on the positive path can attempt to justify conscious, negative behavior. It had nothing to do with disagreement.

[Minyatur]

I am a student of the Law of One, not of the positive path. That's where our disagreement is. I joined because you said you didn't understand those who didn't agree with you, it seems I have failed to highlight this understanding of others.

All is well.

I never said that. I said I didn't understand how those on the positive path can attempt to justify conscious, negative behavior. It had nothing to do with disagreement.

That has to do with the veil. While the higly polarized higher self can be screaming at them to stop, the mix-polarized ego can under the right circumstances not be hearing it or not be caring about it. I do hear this "screaming" from time to time in certain situations. I do think one of the purpose of the veil, is to make one act unlike the higher self would want his incarnation to act.

I do think positive wanderers do come here to experience a partial negative polarization just as a negative wanderer do come here to experience a partial positive polarization. That's the power of the veil.

A wanderer in the end remains just a mortal human with human-like desires. And only going through the experience of fufilling these desires can one evolve.

Anyway this question seems not directed at me as I do not think I was in a postive social memory complex, so I should let others answer it.. if they ever do...

[Monica]

That has to do with the veil. While the higly polarized higher self can be screaming at them to stop, the mix-polarized ego can under the right circumstances not be hearing it or not be caring about it. I do hear this "screaming" from time to time in certain situations. I do think one of the purpose of the veil, is to make one act unlike the higher self would want his incarnation to act.

I do think positive wanderers do come here to experience a partial negative polarization just as a negative wanderer do come here to experience a partial positive polarization. That's the power of the veil.

A wanderer in the end remains just a mortal human with human-like desires. And only going through the experience of fufilling these desires can one evolve.

Anyway this question seems not directed at me as I do not think I was in a postive social memory complex, so I should let others answer it.. if they ever do...

Ra has a bias towards the positive path. So do I, unabashedly. Since you don't, then we don't have a common foundation, which I think is necessary in this particular discussion. No judgment towards you; you are certainly entitled to your opinion! But there simply isn't any point in further going down the rabbit hole, at least not in the context of the topic of this discussion. The comments you just made would make an excellent topic for another thread, so that others might join in. Perhaps there are others here who share your views or would enjoy expounding upon them with you.

[Indigo Light]

althought it also has negative parts like meat eating.

Be careful what you say! I caught all sorts of flack for daring to suggest that eating meat might be negative!!!

My whole point is not that meat eating is a positive thing. It's that negative and positive things are equally important.

You should probably spend some time in a negative time/space to broaden your perspective of this Universe.

LOL! Negative time space will eat that ass up! be wary.

[Monica]

bump due to references in other thread

[Monica]

Scientists Conclude Nonhuman Animals Are Conscious Beings

However, at the recent Francis Crick Memorial Conference in Cambridge England, a very significant similarity between humans and animals was concluded by the presenting scientists, and that is that humans AND non-human animals are all conscious beings [2].

Consciousness is a very complex term, and difficult to fully and adequately define. However, the full declaration included statements such as:

…Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots… Moreover, certain species of birds have been found to exhibit neural sleep patterns similar to those of mammals, including REM sleep… Magpies in particular have been shown to exhibit striking similarities to humans, great apes, dolphins, and elephants in studies of mirror self-recognition.

…evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Nonhuman animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.

[Monica]

That is why animals are called "sentient" beings.
A similar test was done to humans, despite the fact that the people could hear someone crying out in pain they continued to shock the person (actually the shocks were fake...they were not really being shocked, but the humans who were pressing the buttons had no idea the other humans in the test were actors ) on the other side of the screen. So who are the most conscious beings the human animals or the rats?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notroc...fT68mZHanN
And here the experiment done on humans:
http://youtu.be/4b7YFtiE5EA

  Rats More Compassionate Than Humans.jpg (Size: 35.83 KB / Downloads: 12)

[TsaktuO]

I believe once we reach a high level octave of consciousness (3D+), we understand the high
level octave of consciousness (2D) to be a less amount of nutrition for that of a higher consciousness. With that said, at are earlier stage of incarnation in (3D) we were very savage like. Now that we have obtained greater understanding of this matter we can clearly see the specific of the situation, and can hold it w/ tru value.

At this place and time I do eat meat for I enjoy it, and call me savage or lesser being. Maybe once day I will increase my consciousness awareness and be better than, but at my current time I'm just a savage.

Although, I do understand what this topic is of and yes I do believe that there are higher level of understanding in all densities. It's just not practical for some of us, and well my wife would probably kill me if I said lets stop all all meat and dairy product in our house hold. Maybe get a new wife or a second one and live w/ her the majority?

[rva_jeremy]

Monica, I'm curious: do you think it's negative when animals eat other animals?

[TsaktuO]

I would like to make a statement on this once more.
One must take great care when pondering the subject on whether to not eat other animals.

I was recently watching a Documentary, on the people in the mountains of Himalayans, in Nepal.
Here is the vid, very recently must check out, only 25mins or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_b2i_FvYPw

On this journey for magic honey deep on the mt. cliff. They make a sacrifice of a chicken to the forest spirits, so that they are safe during the journey.

What stands out to me is that animal have unconditional love, and w/ that they do not hate nor do they have a desire of hate. They just love, for they are light/love and love/light. W/ no self awareness, how can it even be that by eating this will it be of a negative result in ones life?
When an animal dies what happens to it?
Does the decomposing corpse not give nutrients to the plants that we also eat?
So then wouldn't the plant that we eat be a part of that animal as well?
For the plant is now a by product of what it just ate?
This is the great nature of recycling, everything goes back into the cycle of life!

I enjoy life just as much as the next, I don't believe mass slaughtering of animals is proper nor positive, and especially when its turned into a sport. But we must be real when on this subject, and really think about the broad spectrum here.

Also w/ the understanding that not everyone has the foundation to just go out in life and pick up all they essential property to fulfill a lifestyle of not eating anything any meat or dairy. The cultivation of plants in the mayan,inca, and aztec cultures was a much larger aspect of lifestyle then killing animals. But, they did partake in eat dogs, turkey and fish for that matter, although it was not a favored dish. I can only image to to be so because the readability of such, as for the cultivating of vegetation was much more readily available. http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodmaya.html

I guess what i'm trying to get at is that people in past/present live a lifestyle of eating meats, and give many blessing and thanks for the nourishment of these animals. With great respect for them, so much that they weep when the life of a fellow soulmate is being taken for the well being of another.

I find it a bit extreme to believe that the eating of meat, is enslavement to that creature, for we all have a will of life, and with that we make a choice to survive. To say these indigenous people or anyone for that matter is negative or is in the wrong for eating another creature is just silly. Most of the indigenous tribe/culture have a much better outlook on life, and understand far more about nature and their surrounding then most of us. w/ that said I believe we must take great care into what we believe and hold truth, for the eye of the beholder is only awaken when seen in other self's.

Many Many thanks for giving me to opportunity to thank on this subject in a broader spectrum. Many blessings to you all.

[TsaktuO]

Lets also not forget that the people of Atlantis are the people in the mountains of Tibet, the native Indians of north and south america... They all eat meat, not in high doses but they do not cut it out of the diet completely.
Also another way of protein is Insect!
They lived and very logical lifestyle, what was most easiest and abundant way of gaining such nutrients!
It was a prizes possession to be able to hunt a wild animal down with a spear, I mean come on think about how difficult that might be. So once it was accomplished there was great thanks and a ceremony for the sacrifices of such a majestic being.

[Jade]

Hi Tsa, thanks for your thoughtful words.

I just want to clarify, that most of the discussion here revolves around our mass-produced, factory farmed animals, who suffer greatly, and our other brethren, their factory farmed plant friends who also suffer greatly who are grown to solely to feed them. The system of production is broken, not the system of energy exchange. Nobody denies that it's natural for life to end and be given up to the rest of the living. What's unnatural is our desire to overproduce life so that we can slaughter it en masse for food, for pleasure, and subsequently, to waste about half of it.

[TsaktuO]

Hi Tsa, thanks for your thoughtful words.

I just want to clarify, that most of the discussion here revolves around our mass-produced, factory farmed animals, who suffer greatly, and our other brethren, their factory farmed plant friends who also suffer greatly who are grown to solely to feed them. The system of production is broken, not the system of energy exchange. Nobody denies that it's natural for life to end and be given up to the rest of the living. What's unnatural is our desire to overproduce life so that we can slaughter it en masse for food, for pleasure, and subsequently, to waste about half of it.

Ahh, thank you much for ur clarity. With that said, I also agree strongly against the factory farming of such.

Trying to see everyone for their individuality, and with that takes much patience's, but I believe I'm getting better.

I believe animals have a higher consciousness then plant life, but we must also consider the mushroom as well. For it is very close in the makeup of u and I. For they as well intake O2 and produce CO2. They might not bleed like us, but in this vast world of individuality are they any different?
For the largest living organism is a fungi. (In biology, an organism is any contiguous living system, such as an animal, plant or bacterium. More than 99 percent of all species, amounting to over five billion species, that ever lived on Earth are estimated to be extinct.)

The mass production of fungus a negative motive? For mushrooms bring so much more to the table in terms of nutritional factors... so much that not all has been discovered.

[Jade]

Actually, many fungi "bleed" when lacerated.

http://i.imgur.com/2rFX7DQ.gifv

[TsaktuO]

Very well, I just recently started cultivating mushrooms. Never seen any that bled though. That just further proves a better point! The species and world of mushrooms is a very vast topic
here is my recent harvest : ))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwJY_qDvOY

Thanks for the info! Very profound indeed.

[Monica]

Monica, I'm curious: do you think it's negative when animals eat other animals?

Did you mean negative as in polarizing for the perpetrator, or cruel to the victim?

First, let's define negative.

In Law of One terminology, I'd define negative as being in opposition to one's chosen path of polarity. What is inappropriate, counterproductive, and depolarizing to an STO-oriented entity might be entirely appropriate, productive and polarizing to an STS-oriented entity. But this only pertains to 3D+.

These concepts have No application for 2D entities, whose primary objective is to develop sentience, thus reaching harvestability to 3D.

Yet, we are seeing more and more cases of higher 2D entities showing awareness of other-selves, to the point even of consideration, compassion and love. Not just dogs protecting their humans through pack instinct, but bears rescuing birds, swans feeding fish, rats sacrificing their own comfort to aid other rats, cows setting other cows free, and myriad other examples.

So this shows, unmistakably, that these virtues exist in 2D, even though they aren't yet required, just as higher love and wisdom exists among 3D entities, beyond the point of the bare minimum threshold.

So it stands to reason that this could go in either direction; ie., just as the bear showed compassion for the bird, so too might a cat torture a mouse just for fun, and delight in the other's suffering. Therein lie the seeds of their future polarity, perhaps.

But, for the most part, I'd say No, hunting and killing other animals aren't negative when done by animals. Why? For the simple reason that they are doing it for survival. The lion in the wild must kill the impala to survive. A domesticated cat, well-fed on store-bought kibble by a caring human, doesn't need to kill that mouse, but still retains the instinct to do so. So even then, even when it isn't necessary, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the cat to be at the level of comprehension to consciously choose to torture that mouse vs set him free. That's some pretty advanced stuff even for many 3D humans.

From the perspective of the victim, it's all the same. The deer being torn apart in the forest by wolves wants to live just as much as the cow waiting in line for slaughter. They both bleed just the same, they both feel pain just the same. We can only speculate as to why the Logos designed the system of wild animals feeding on one another. The most likely explanation, in my opinion, is that it was intended to be a system for weeding out the weak and injured, thus sparing them an even longer, more agonizing death.

At any rate, we aren't animals living in the wild, dependent upon hunting prey to survive. (Most of us anyway.) We can endeavor to raise the vibration of this planet, and move forwards and upwards, rather than backwards and downwards.

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