Why I am a Vegan

[Monica]

For others, who don't like or can't get avocados, it might be one or several bananas, though nutritionally a little less valuable than avocados, or a handful of nuts. For all of them, please consider buying them organic, for your health and the planet's, and for bananas also fairly traded, for some basic rights to the producers.

Bananas are a powerhouse of nutrients, but have different nutrients than avocados. Bananas are a main staple in the diet of raw vegan athletes. They might eat anywhere from 5 to 12 (yes 12!!!) bananas at a time! (Some eat 20-30 per day!) They make a meal of it! Then they do their bodybuilding, or marathon running or whatever, with easily-accessible fuel, for quick spurts of energy for intense exercise.

Fatty foods like avocados, nuts and seeds are more slowly-released, since fat takes longer to metabolize than carbs. So, if you're going to the gym, eat some bananas. If you're going to the office and unable to eat for several hours, eat some avocados, nuts or seeds.  Cooked foods like rice, quinoa, potatoes, beans, etc. have both carbs and protein, plus other nutrients, and they're kind of in the middles as far as releasing their energy.

P.S. If you are eating a vegan/mostly vegan diet, please take sublingual B12 several times a week.  It's more important than you may realize.

Another +1 - might be worth a try/blood sample for meat-eaters, too!

A large percentage of the meat-eating population is deficient in B12. It's more prevalent among the elderly, but even some young people who eat meat are deficient in B12. So it isn't just a vegan thing, though it is certainly more common among vegans who don't supplement. Yes, a blood test can show a deficiency, but I wouldn't wait for a blood test. By the time deficiency shows up in a blood test, there might be nerve damage. Anyway, B12 supplements are cheaper than blood tests!

The reason is the humans get B12 the same way animals do: From the bacteria in the soil. If we didn't wash our veggies, B12 wouldn't be a problem. But since we wash away the dirt, we must supplement. Meat-eaters actually get very little B12 from the meat itself; the B12 is synthesized in their gut from the bacteria that's in the meat!

As Pablisimo said, get a sublingual - that is best absorbed. It can be 'sublingual tablet', liquid or spray, as long as it's held under the tongue rather than swallowed. It takes a few years to use up B12 stores, a new vegan isn't likely to have B12 deficiency. But the key is to avoid it, so start taking the B12 supplement as soon as you go vegan. Anything your body doesn't need will get flushed out, so even meat-eaters can take a supplement if they wish, without any concern of ever getting too much.

[Plenum]

Fat is the one macronutrient that is relatively low in my vegan diet overall, and I noticed it is also low in Plenum's daily meal without eggs.  Apparently adding that fat to breakfast is what my body needs to function optimally.

I didn't used to like avocados, but now regard them as one of my most important and valuable food sources.  I feel wonderful adding these little gems to my daily breakfast.  They are also good emergency food for unexpected travel.

HI Pab,

thank you for your wonderful post.

I hadn't honestly considered avocadoes.  But I could see how they could be an analogue for eggs in terms of the fat content.  I just have a few questions about practical usage:

1) are avocadoes available all year round, at a reasonable price where you live?

2) question about storage and ripening.  How often do you have to buy them, and do you just keep them on the kitchen counter as they ripen?  and then do you put them in the fridge as soon as they are ripe?  how often do they keep in the fridge for?

3) do you eat them just raw?  or can you work them into meals through cooking/combining?

Those probably sound like totally clueless questions  And they totally are.  Avocadoes are available in Sydney, but I've only eaten them maybe a few times in my life, when I was first experimenting with vegetarianism when I was 18 years old (that's two decades ago now!).  That's the only time I've ever eaten them.

[Monica]

Although I'm vegan, in discussions with other vegans, I've actually been the one defending the eating of eggs from backyard hens who are allowed to roam freely and forage. (Not to be confused with falsely labeled 'free range' eggs which are just as cruel as factory-farmed eggs.)

I always contended that the chickens lay the eggs anyway, so why not gather them and feed them to your dogs? (Or even eat them.) I find eggs too heavy, but I had no ethical issue with eating eggs from backyard chickens. I am fiercely against buying store-bought eggs. They directly support the meat industry and those chickens were literally tortured every day of their lives. So I always made a distinction between store-bought eggs and eggs from backyard chickens who have plenty of room to forage and have pretty good lives.

Until recently.

A vegan friend brought this to my attention. Now I feel a dilemma regarding what to feed my dogs and cats. Plus, I read a book called Obligate Carnivore which further complicated the matter. Then, I met vegans who are successfully raising their cats and dogs as vegans. They claim that their dogs and cats are thriving, and don't have fleas, and never get sick and smell sweet and live longer and are vibrantly healthy and their fur is shinier. Say, what??? But just look at those teeth! I said. Yeah, no question about it: Cats and dogs are carnivores. But reading Obligate Carnivore totally blew my mind. I won't go into it but suffice to say, it rattled me and made me question everything.

The problem is that the vegan kibble has GMO corn and canola. I can't knowingly feed GMOs to my doggies and kitties. I'm trying to find one that is non-GMO, and I'm writing the companies suggesting that they offer a non-GMO version.

Here is what my friend told me about eggs from backyard chickens:

Picture a happy flock of backyard chickens....

There are 10 hens, completely free range, wandering around the neighbor's back yard. They are all happily scratching at the dirt and enjoying their days in the sun. The neighbor treats them all really, really well, so what could possibly be wrong with this? Why would a vegan object?

Most likely, it's the missing 10 brothers! Huh? There is an extremely high probability that the neighbor got her flock from a breeder or at the local feedstore. Chickens have a 50/50 gender ratio, and they immediately kill the boys at birth, often in horrific ways. That means that there are 10 brutally slaughtered baby male chicks to match those 10hens that were allowed to make it to maturity.

Hens definitely do lay eggs whether or not they are fertilized, but it's only been through countless generations of selective breeding that they started laying eggs every single day. This exaggerated egg production takes an enormous toll and wears out their bodies in 5-6 years instead of the 20-30 lifespan. They've been bred for this, it's not possible to keep a modern variety of chicken without this happening... and the health complications and shortened lifespans that go with it, if the owner doesn't just kill them when they stop laying eggs.

It's about the boys..........

That's what's wrong.

[Nía]

Hi Monica,

the rescue dogs we're guarding are living vegan-organic, and so are naturally not eating GMOs or chemicals. They're thriving as well.

The problem is that the vegan kibble has GMO corn and canola. I can't knowingly feed GMOs to my doggies and kitties. I'm trying to find one that is non-GMO, and I'm writing the companies suggesting that they offer a non-GMO version.

You might want to check out those two links:

Vegan Dog Food Marketed Products
Good Nutrition for Healthy Vegan Dogs

-`ღ´-
facettes

[Minyatur]

I never got how people can work in these places.

[Monica]

I never got how people can work in these places.

You mean slaughterhouses? Everyone who eats meat or dairy is working in those places, vicariously.

[Minyatur]

I never got how people can work in these places.

You mean slaughterhouses? Everyone who eats meat or dairy is working in those places, vicariously.

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant.

I could also say that from my beliefs and a meta-physical perspective, any vegan who is seeking something to fight against, is creating the need of it to exist within Creation and thus partaking in the problem being there in the first place. Is the world around not simply a projection your created? Are you not every animal slaugtherer?

As it was said in a Qu'o channeling, you are not here to change this world but to love and accept it. In a way you could find it sad that you need so many animal slaugthers for you to work your own distortions, even if from your perspective you have nothing to do with it.

The world is not black and white, the world is One is perfect complementary unity. 

[Monica]

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant.

Yes, what I thought you meant was that it's ok to support it, as long as we don't have to look at it. Out of sight, out of mind. Just pay someone else to do the dirty work.

I could also say that from my beliefs and a meta-physical perspective, any vegan who is seeking something to fight against, is creating the need of it to exist within Creation and thus partaking in the problem being there in the first place.

I agree. Looking for trouble helps create it.

But in this case, we aren't looking for it. It's all around us, in our faces, every day.

Is the world around not simply a projection your created? Are you not every animal slaugtherer?

Yes, and the first step in creating something different is to make the choice to no longer participate, because participating adds energy to the projection.

As it was said in a Qu'o channeling, you are not here to change this world but to love and accept it.

As I've said in other threads, I think most people here misinterpret the term accept. I also don't consider the Q'uo material to be anywhere near as undistorted as the Ra Material.

Not to mention, that supporting suffering isn't just 'accepting' it; it's adding to it.

In a way you could find it sad that you need so many animal slaugthers for you to work your own distortions, even if from your perspective you have nothing to do with it.

LOL! How convenient. "I am going to continue to support animal slaughter by paying for slaughterhouse products, but you - YOU! are the one creating them because you need them to work through your own distortions."

OK got it.  

[Minyatur]

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant.

Yes, what I thought you meant was that it's ok to support it, as long as we don't have to look at it. Out of sight, out of mind. Just pay someone else to do the dirty work.

I do agree I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. Not just in this area.

I could also say that from my beliefs and a meta-physical perspective, any vegan who is seeking something to fight against, is creating the need of it to exist within Creation and thus partaking in the problem being there in the first place.

I agree. Looking for trouble helps create it.

But in this case, we aren't looking for it. It's all around us, in our faces, every day.

If you look at time from a non-linear perspective and acknowledge yourself as the OIC and the center of your own reality, you're still creating all of it. It's your own little world you created just for yourself to learn about yourself.

Is the world around not simply a projection your created? Are you not every animal slaugtherer?

Yes, and the first step in creating something different is to make the choice to no longer participate, because participating adds energy to the projection.

As I said in another thread, you look so much into it that as a quantum observer, you partake more in this reality being as it is than I do. This whole planet could be vegan for all I care, it's not part of the reasons I am here.

Just partaking into society is putting fuel into any sort of corruption that exists within mankind. If I had a problem with that, I wouldn't have incarnated on this planet.

As it was said in a Qu'o channeling, you are not here to change this world but to love and accept it.

As I've said in other threads, I think most people here misinterpret the term accept. I also don't consider the Q'uo material to be anywhere near as undistorted as the Ra Material.

Not to mention, that supporting suffering isn't just 'accepting' it; it's adding to it.

Never said this was untrue, but if I become vegan, which will probably eventually happen when I'll actually do my own groceries, I still wouldn't feel the need to convince others to adhere to my ways. Nor would I not eat something somewhere just for it to be thrown.

I am not quite sure how you do view the term accept. To me acceptance comes from acknowledging that the deeds of others are also your own.

In a way you could find it sad that you need so many animal slaugthers for you to work your own distortions, even if from your perspective you have nothing to do with it.

LOL! How convenient. "I am going to continue to support animal slaughter by paying for slaughterhouse products, but you - YOU! are the one creating them because you need them to work through your own distortions."

OK got it.  

I never said anything about what you told me being untrue. As I said above if this planet was vegan, it wouldn't change much to my purpose in incarnating whereas it seem very central to why you are here, which does imply you did need this reality to be as it is in this regard.

Someone that so actively works to change things. reflects the need of having something "external" to change, that's all I say. You can be doing this for all of eternity if you wished so and there would be endless places responding to your need.



As you probably noticed, I can also do this for all of eternity. This is a mirror game and I love mirroring and being mirrored.

[Monica]

If you look at time from a non-linear perspective and acknowledge yourself as the OIC and the center of your own reality, you're still creating all of it. It's your own little world you created just for yourself to learn about yourself.

I disagree. Well, it's partially true, but not that simple. That would mean that only I exist. Ultimately, we are all One. But we are ALSO separate distortions of the One. Both are true. The Resolution of Paradox. Denying the reality of distortion is just as distorted as denying the reality of Oneness.

As I said in another thread, you look so much into it that as a quantum observer, you partake more in this reality being as it is than I do.

I do agree that I am participating, as an observer on a quantum level. Observation does affect the observed.

This whole planet could be vegan for all I care, it's not part of the reasons I am here.

That sounds a bit like the sinkhole of indifference.

I am not quite sure how you do view the term accept. To me acceptance comes from acknowledging that the deeds of others are also your own.

Here is my view of acceptance:

Bring4th Forums One > Strictly Law of One Material v > The Ways of Acceptance (alternative reading of 'STO')

[Pablísimo]

thank you for your wonderful post.

I hadn't honestly considered avocadoes.  But I could see how they could be an analogue for eggs in terms of the fat content.  I just have a few questions about practical usage:

1) are avocadoes available all year round, at a reasonable price where you live?

2) question about storage and ripening.  How often do you have to buy them, and do you just keep them on the kitchen counter as they ripen?  and then do you put them in the fridge as soon as they are ripe?  how often do they keep in the fridge for?

3) do you eat them just raw?  or can you work them into meals through cooking/combining?

Those probably sound like totally clueless questions  And they totally are.  Avocadoes are available in Sydney, but I've only eaten them maybe a few times in my life, when I was first experimenting with vegetarianism when I was 18 years old (that's two decades ago now!).  That's the only time I've ever eaten them.

Hola Plenum,

No prob at all.  I have no idea if substituting them would work for you -- but it sure solved my own "between meal" hunger issue.  They are really packed with vitamins (including most of the B vitamins so prevalent in eggs) and slow-digesting healthy fat -- so would be a good candidate to experiment with if you find yourself of a mind to try again one day.

I'm hardly an expert on this fruit, but happy to share all I can.


1) Yes, avocados are available all year round where I live in the southern US, and quite cheaply.  California produces a large amount of them for export to the rest of the country from Feb - September.  Mexico, just a bit further south, grows and exports them to this country all year round and we also get them from time to time from other places.  It wasn't always like this, but since the mid-90's or so they've been cheap and plentiful.  I'm really not sure what the situation is in Australia, but hear that nearby NZ is a big producer.  Personally, I fully intend to retire to a farm in the tropics and hope to tend my "own" trees one day.  For now, though, it's the supermarket.

2) I usually just buy a few at a time that are close to perfect ripeness.  If they are under-ripe, though, sometimes I'll stock up and leave them out on the counter up to a week.  They ripen very nicely on the counter but they stop ripening in the fridge so it's easy to control the process.  I eat exactly 1/2 an avocado per day, so I just put the other half in a container in the fridge and eat it the next day.  I don't even bother with the lemon juice trick to keep it from browning and have never noticed any flavor degradation the next day.  If you eat the whole thing you wouldn't have that problem, but I can't finish a whole avocado in one sitting unless I remove most of the rest of my normal breakfast.

3) I *personally* just eat them raw with no salt or spices, but I think most people cook with them in some fashion.  It's common to salt and slice them and put them on salads and sandwiches or else make guacamole, which is a tasty Mexican dip that is very popular and very gooood, as Icaro mentioned!  You might want to just experiment with different ways of preparation until you find what you personally prefer.

If you want to try them out, I'd suggest experimenting with the level of ripeness that you personally prefer.  I found I like them creamy but not fully ripe.  When they are too mushy and ripe I have difficulty eating them.  I also don't like them so green/unripe that it crunches.  Another important distinction is organic, which facette quite rightly mentioned.  There is just no comparison to the flavor profile.  I can really tell a difference when I eat a non-organic avocado.

In my case, for decades I actually avoided avocados and guacamole because I thought I "didn't like the taste"!  As a vegan, though, I've learned to change my attitudes towards food and see it more holistically.  A given food isn't just about flavor, and I found that I had many biases about what food I "liked" that were based on nothing other than childhood whims, hazy memories, and foolish, irrational opinions about "textures" or "colors" or some other random distortion.  I've learned to expand my food horizons and really take time to appreciate subtle flavors and all manner of vegan foods.  I now consider the practicality, sustainability, ethics, and the nutrient profile in addition to flavor.  Most importantly, I've learned to appreciate how these foods give me LIFE.  Certain foods, such as the avocado or the coconut, feel almost sacred to me.  As I eat the avocado each morning, I reflect on it and always feel a deep sense of connectedness and, frankly, *gratitude* for this daily life-sustaining fruit.  I can't help it -- some days I just want to shout "THANK YOU" for this wondrous food.  It's truly a marvel how something so nutritious, so filling and sustaining, grows from a such a humble tree.  Sometimes, I am awestruck with wonder at the beauty and bounty of this little bit of the Creation we call Earth!

P.S. Here's a great video that explains how to properly select and open an Avocado. Very good info -- the secret is the twisting motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnT78O8wBxk

P.P.S. If you are interested in finding an "egg-like" flavor, you won't go wrong with Indian Black Salt (Kala Namak). Seriously, the flavor is unbelievably close and the spice is cheap. Hmmm, I wonder what fried avocado with garlic and Kala Namak would taste like?

[Pablísimo]

     

[Minyatur]

If you look at time from a non-linear perspective and acknowledge yourself as the OIC and the center of your own reality, you're still creating all of it. It's your own little world you created just for yourself to learn about yourself.

I disagree. Well, it's partially true, but not that simple. That would mean that only I exist. Ultimately, we are all One. But we are ALSO separate distortions of the One. Both are true. The Resolution of Paradox. Denying the reality of distortion is just as distorted as denying the reality of Oneness.

To me existences of the One that interact with each others are complementary to each others. They inter-create each others simultaenously for their needed experiences as building blocks to each of their higher selves as to bring this gained awareness of the Creator of Himself back to the mutual Highest Self. Each is the equal center of it all, each created all it is not as to experience itself within it.

This whole planet could be vegan for all I care, it's not part of the reasons I am here.

That sounds a bit like the sinkhole of indifference.  

It is one of the things that I am to work on. But I can find many areas to which I am indifferent toward, just as there are many others which I am not. There are also many things I do care about which are to be let go.

I am not quite sure how you do view the term accept. To me acceptance comes from acknowledging that the deeds of others are also your own.

Here is my view of acceptance:

Bring4th Forums One > Strictly Law of One Material  v > The Ways of Acceptance (alternative reading of 'STO')

Interesting read, I still do think ultimately acceptance does come toward passivity. The Sun shines on both good and evil men (however you want to divide those). I do not think it is inherently like that, but that we work slowly ever toward that. Ra does say that what is not needed does fade away by itself, you can't force change in others. But you indeed can bring things to their awareness, to let's say... speed things up.

I wouldn't tell you to not do your work, there is acceptance of others but also acceptance of self. It's a two-way constant relationship.

The polarity game ends when one does not need to polarize Creation nor self anymore, that is my opinion. Not saying I am above the polarity game, but I have my own unique way of playing it like we all do.

I also do think it is important to note that in the eyes of the One, positivety and negativity are two faces of the very same thing. Both are equal services for the Creator to know Himself. So in my opinion, work is mainly about self even when seemingly oriented toward other-selves.

---

I think I am derailing a thread once again, when will I learn? I do not know, pershaps never.

You could say I preach the middle path but the middle path is my current distortion and as such I am being true to myself just like you are in your more positive distortions but ultimately we're both working toward the one same thing just as everything else also is in their own manner.

[Monica]

Vegans are WEAK!!! <<== Look at those sickly, scrawny vegans!!! OMG!

[Monica]

I think I am derailing a thread once again, when will I learn? I do not know, pershaps never.

You could say I preach the middle path but the middle path is my current distortion and as such I am being true to myself just like you are in your more positive distortions but ultimately we're both working toward the one same thing just as everything else also is in their own manner.

Your contributions are always welcome!

[Monica]

Here's another sickly, scrawny vegan. This is my friend Wade:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dM1iU5e33k

Crazy, eh?

...

[native]

A lovely fyi lol.."The actual word avocado comes from the Aztec word “ahuacatl” which means testicle because of the shape."

[Nía]

Hi all,

two books just came to my mind that I wanted to read for some years but haven't yet, and that might be of interest to the subject.

The first one is World Peace Diet by Dr. Will Tuttle (you will find it for download on the internet if you can't/don't want to buy the book as it has previously been published as a free ebook).

The other one unfortunately doesn't seem to have been translated into English yet (but certainly will be soon), it is called Peace Food by Austrian psychologist Dr. Ruediger Dahlke (written in German). A quick search brought up two English articles/interviews, one here and one is available as .pdf from one of Dahlke's sites.

Both cover spiritual aspects.

A little off topic is an article I've just been sent, published by Alexander/Intelligent Infinity: The vibrational frequencies of food, and it’s effects on the body, and that might be an interesting read as well (you might also want to watch the video embedded).

-`ღ´-
facettes

---

Edit: Just accidentally found an English abstract (.pdf) of 'Peace Food' at Dahlke's website while searching for something else.

---

Another edit: Even more English articles on 'Peace Food' and other books by Dr. Ruediger Dahlke.

-`ღ´-

[Monica]

Hi all,

two books just came to my mind that I wanted to read for some years but haven't yet, and that might be of interest to the subject.

The first one is World Peace Diet by Dr. Will Tuttle (you will find it for download on the internet if you can't/don't want to buy the book as it has previously been published as a free ebook).

The other one unfortunately doesn't seem to have been translated into English yet (but certainly will be soon), it is called Peace Food by Austrian psychologist Dr. Ruediger Dahlke (written in German). A quick search brought up two English articles/interviews, one here and one is available as .pdf from one of Dahlke's sites.

Both cover spiritual aspects.

A little off topic is an article I've just been sent, published by Alexander/Intelligent Infinity: The vibrational frequencies of food, and it’s effects on the body, and that might be an interesting read a well (you might also want to watch the video embedded).

-`ღ´-
facettes

Excellent! Thanks for sharing! I have long ago concluded that finding one's appropriate diet is much more about vibration than blood type or any of that other stuff.

[Jade]

Re: backyard laying hens and egg production...

Yes it is very true that backyard egg production facilitates the slaughter of male baby chicks. Most animal rescues that have egg laying hens will break the eggs and feed them back to the hens, which they find to be an incredible treat and also helps replenish the resources spent to lay such a high capacity of eggs. So really, the eggs should go back to the poor chickens who have been bread to be freaks of nature.

If one is not going to give up eggs, backyard chickens are still less cruel than factory farmed eggs, but definitely is not a cruelty free business. A compromise would be to adopt an aging flock that has slowed down production that a previous owner may not want. But still I think the most proper thing to do is to feed the eggs back to the hens.

[Nía]

Some personal views/stories of others (just got them with a newsletter) on 'Why I am a Vegan':

Why?
The Only Way to Exist

-`ღ´-

[Nía]

Hi all,

just got what looks like an interesting study, but haven't looked into it myself yet: Attached to meat? (Un)Willingness and intentions to adopt a more plant-based diet.

-`ღ´-

[Aion]

Re: backyard laying hens and egg production...

Yes it is very true that backyard egg production facilitates the slaughter of male baby chicks. Most animal rescues that have egg laying hens will break the eggs and feed them back to the hens, which they find to be an incredible treat and also helps replenish the resources spent to lay such a high capacity of eggs. So really, the eggs should go back to the poor chickens who have been bread to be freaks of nature.

If one is not going to give up eggs, backyard chickens are still less cruel than factory farmed eggs, but definitely is not a cruelty free business. A compromise would be to adopt an aging flock that has slowed down production that a previous owner may not want. But still I think the most proper thing to do is to feed the eggs back to the hens.

Speaking of 'naturalness', this form of cannibalism is 'better'?

Yes, a chicken eating eggs is cannibalism... is that more natural than the predator-prey relationship that occurs when another creatures eats the eggs?

[Diana]

Yes, a chicken eating eggs is cannibalism... is that more natural than the predator-prey relationship that occurs when another creatures eats the eggs?

It's not natural. But it's also not natural to keep animals for a food source where the animals don't lead natural lives in the wild (which created the problem in the first place). There really isn't much about humans that is natural within the context of ecosystems and the planet. 

Predator-prey is natural for animals. Humans are still animals in the greater part of their brains. So the question would be, does a particular individual want to continue acting like an animal or evolve to something more in line with compassion for all things.

[Aion]

Just as an example, for those who love bananas or other dominant monocultures.

http://community.plu.edu/~bananas/environmental/

I find monocultures and plant factory farming to be just a horrible as animal factory farming.

[Aion]

Yes, a chicken eating eggs is cannibalism... is that more natural than the predator-prey relationship that occurs when another creatures eats the eggs?

It's not natural. But it's also not natural to keep animals for a food source where the animals don't lead natural lives in the wild (which created the problem in the first place). There really isn't much about humans that is natural within the context of ecosystems and the planet. 

Predator-prey is natural for animals. Humans are still animals in the greater part of their brains. So the question would be, does a particular individual want to continue acting like an animal or evolve to something more in line with compassion for all things.

So what separates humans from nature? Why do our actions 'not count' as part of nature?

[Aion]

Are pets more natural because we aren't eating them? We still keep them from a wild life.

[Jade]

Re: backyard laying hens and egg production...

Yes it is very true that backyard egg production facilitates the slaughter of male baby chicks. Most animal rescues that have egg laying hens will break the eggs and feed them back to the hens, which they find to be an incredible treat and also helps replenish the resources spent to lay such a high capacity of eggs. So really, the eggs should go back to the poor chickens who have been bread to be freaks of nature.

If one is not going to give up eggs, backyard chickens are still less cruel than factory farmed eggs, but definitely is not a cruelty free business. A compromise would be to adopt an aging flock that has slowed down production that a previous owner may not want. But still I think the most proper thing to do is to feed the eggs back to the hens.

Speaking of 'naturalness', this form of cannibalism is 'better'?

Yes, a chicken eating eggs is cannibalism... is that more natural than the predator-prey relationship that occurs when another creatures eats the eggs?

Many birds consume eggs as part of their diet, I wouldn't call it cannibalism. It is entirely natural. However, I believe as stewards for this species whose genes we have directly and intentionally altered, that we should do what is best for them. Producing an egg every day is not normal for a bird, and consuming the extra calcium/protein from an unfertilized egg helps replenish those resources so that the chicken is happier and healthier. Or we could just take-take-take and deplete until spent.

We have four cats that live with us and we have a very bonded relationship, a house full of love. I am very hard-pressed to consider our little family 'unnatural'. If I was to use 'living in the wilds' as a basis for something being natural then on that alone humans stopped being 'natural' a long time ago. However, I don't believe nature actually keeps track of zones within itself, thinking "oh this area is wild and that area is civilized", to nature everything is just one continuous field.

This is why it bothers me when people try to use "nature" or "what is natural" to justify their own person opinions, because frankly you have no idea what nature 'thinks'.

Pets are different because humans live in service to them. Most people ask very little of their pets (save for service animals) and many many pets live lives better than the majority of humans on this planet. Humans offer a different brand of service to livestock.

We're third density, which gives us the Law of Responsibility. If we perform "unnatural" acts we are held accountable for them. I'm not the one to judge which acts invoke the Law of Responsibility, but I would assume genetic manipulation of a species would cause some sort of karmic dance to ensue. With pets, we are making restitution. Slowly we will move towards that end with livestock.

I don't equate "natural" with "living in the wilds", I equate natural with being in tune with the rhythms that Gaia has set forth for millennia before us, instead of trying to control species/situations for my own benefit. I think the Gaia that we live on desires to move into 4D positive, so I make decisions in accordance with that. I don't deny the necessity for yin and yang, just am stating my preference.

[Plenum]

35 Posts were split into a new thread:

[split] On Human Nature

[Nía]

Less spiritual, but one of the most moving films I know on the topic (and hardly any graphic images in the film itself):

Open your eyes. Trust your heart. Take the journey. This award-winning, life-changing documentary features five farmers, a humane officer, an animal rescuer, and a cow named Snickers, who will make you laugh and cry, expand your consciousness, and challenge your ideas about farmers, farm life, and perhaps most surprisingly, the animals themselves.

I also just saw Monica's thread on Ra's Statements About 2D Entities, which is very interesting. Many thanks for your efforts there!

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