The Veil in the Body

[Plenum]

I've become quite interested in the nature of the 'Veil' quite recently.  This is due, in part, to some of the threads and other discussions that have come up elsewhere.

When the Veil is referenced, it is usually in the context of the mind complex.  That is, the Veil represents a partition or a barrier/layer that creates two things:  there is the 'thing' on this side, which we know of as the conscious mind, and then there is the 'thing' on the other side, which contains everything else, which can be classified as the unconscious mind.

This initial division, created what Ra calls a 'complex'; or that which is something that is no longer singular:

83.19 Questioner: What was the mechanism of the very first veiling process? I don’t know if you can answer that. Would you try to, though, answer that?

Ra: I am Ra. The mechanism of the veiling between the conscious and unconscious portions of the mind was a declaration that the mind was complex. This, in turn, caused the body and the spirit to become complex.

once the mind became complex, then the body and spirit also became complex.  (there is actually a quote where Don asks specifically how to define what a 'complex' is).

So we have the situation where the mind is complex; ie, a conscious portion of mind, and an unconscious portion of mine.  These are symbolically represented in the first two archetypes as the Matrix and Potentiator of Mind.

- -

the body also became 'complex'.

83.20 Questioner: Would you give me an example of a complex activity of the body that we have now and how it was not complex prior to the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. Prior to the great experiment a mind/body/spirit was capable of controlling the pressure of blood in the vein, the beating of the organ you call the heart, the intensity of the sensation known to you as pain, and all the functions now understood to be involuntary or unconscious.

so basically, there are body functions which are regulated to 'automatic status' currently, which we used to be able to control with a thought - almost like changing the thermostat on your air-con.

The interesting thing is that the list of functions which were automated (made unconscious), and those which were not was a result of experimentation.

"There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable. For instance, it is not a survival-oriented mechanism for the nerve receptors to blank out unconsciously any distortions towards pain."

- -

I guess the ultimate query/seeking of this thread is this:

* we know that we can start consciously penetrating the nature of the Veil in mind.  Even though it is not able to be totally lifted in a 3d vehicle, it is permeable, and able to be penetrated with magical/higher self work.

* likewise, it would seem to me that an adept would not only start knowing their body and it's requirements well over time, but that as part of that self-knowing, the Veil in the body would also start to be permeable.

Some of the functions that Ra listed above as being 'veiled' (the beating of the organ you call the heart, the intensity of the sensation known to you as pain), there have been observations on deep meditation which show that some individuals are able to deliberately lower metabolic rates, and become almost insensitive to pain.

This issue becomes a bit tangled, because some of these stories/studies on yogi's maybe them accessing chi and using that to prevent physical injury, rather than them sustaining injury and then not feeling the pain (thinking here of Shaolin Monks).

so I think a distinction may have to be made about using 'energy' to achieve certain bodily effects, and the actual penetrating of the Body Veil to directly access the functions that Ra is referencing.

[Minyatur]

There are monks that do self-immolation.

[AnthroHeart]

There are monks that do self-immolation.

Are they able to turn off the pain?

[Berilac Sandydowns]

Perhaps the veil should be seen as a protective device as much as a tool for evolution.

This reminded me of a vid I saw years ago.
Despite a couple of pretty deep searches, I've never been able to find it again.

The vid seemed like a short British documentary from the 70's.
It was about a group of Qigong practitioners who were related to the Chinese military IIRC. It showed them doing exercises.
Crazy amazing stuff.
A man stands there without change of expression as another man swings a bat repeatedly into his nads.

Another scene shows a man throwing a small finishing nail straight through a pane of glass from about ten feet away.

The display I remember best was a man with a spear. He jams the butt into the ground, puts the point against his throat and leans into it hard enough to bend the shaft almost to the breaking point.

There was other stuff I don't remember.
Wish I could find it again.

We can be amazing things with focus, faith and dedication.

[Minyatur]

There are monks that do self-immolation.

Are they able to turn off the pain?

I don't know, they're not moving from what I saw.

[Stranger]

The display I remember best was a man with a spear. He jams the butt into the ground, puts the point against his throat and leans into it hard enough to bend the shaft almost to the breaking point.

I immediately thought you were thinking of Shaolin monks.

[Stranger]

I think the division of the brain hemispheres has a lot to do with the mechanism of the veil.  The right hemisphere does not understand language or time.  It enables us to understand nonlinear thought, e.g., metaphors and humor.  It is holistic in its processing, whereas the left hemisphere breaks everything down into individual conceptual chunks.  Because in our conscious mind we we think in words and concepts, any input from the right hemisphere has to first pass through the left before it reaches awareness.  The left hemisphere only knows concepts, so if it can't fit the RH's input into a particular shoebox or category, it ignores it.

I also think that women have more difficulty telling right from left for the same reason that they are more intuitive (broad generalities here, of course) -- that is, their brains possess more fully interconnected hemispheres.  More input from the right hemisphere ("beyond the veil"?) is able to pass through into consciousness.

[Berilac Sandydowns]

The display I remember best was a man with a spear. He jams the butt into the ground, puts the point against his throat and leans into it hard enough to bend the shaft almost to the breaking point.

I immediately thought you were thinking of Shaolin monks.

Well my favorite show in the 70's WAS "Kung Fu" with David Carridine :p

An interesting theory about left/right brain doins' is called Bicameral Mind.
Says that until fairly modern times the left and right sides only communicated with each other during Inspirational Moments.
Man was pretty simple and knew enough to live daily life. He was pretty dull.
But occasionally he would hear the "Voice of God" and be spurred into doing something in a new way.
The left brain making a connection to the right.
in5d.com had a real interestig series going that got into it. Can't find it now. But I followed it when I had more than a phone for my net service.

[Karl]

I always was fascinated with the idea of learning a symbolic/holistic language system as opposed to the linear/logical languages earth is dominated by. Perhaps that's what Kabbalah and the Archetype systems are?

Anyways very enjoyable post. I've noticed "piercing the veil" in the body after long periods of disciplined exercise similar to what you said (Plenum). Also on one occasion I was able to control my heart beat briefly while in a deep meditative state. Only pulled it off the one time though.

It's something I would very much like to do, pierce that veil.

[native]

It does appear that we overlook the use of the body as a tool.

4.17 Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.

The second part has to do with the disciplines of the body complexes. In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.

The third area is the spiritual, and in this area the first two disciplines are connected through the attainment of contact with intelligent infinity.

[AnthroHeart]

That self-immolation video led me to this one. Not sure what to think.

[Bourbon Betty]

The display I remember best was a man with a spear. He jams the butt into the ground, puts the point against his throat and leans into it hard enough to bend the shaft almost to the breaking point.

I immediately thought you were thinking of Shaolin monks.

*watches in awe and strongly ponders the wisdom of reapplying for martial arts now that the mind is clearer and the impurity of the heart makes existential sense.

[Minyatur]

That self-immolation video led me to this one. Not sure what to think.

Then think nothing of it.

[Lighthead]

That self-immolation video led me to this one. Not sure what to think.

My first issue with this video is, so let me get this straight...the first demon is witnessing about God by telling the monk that so and so is in hell because he didn't believe in Jesus Christ? Wouldn't a true demon be more of a liar and tell the monk what he wants him to believe rather than tell him things that would "spiritually benefit" him?

My second issue is that one premise of the video is that Buddhists have no concept of hell. That is a straight up lie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29

- - - -

I don't understand why these "Christians" believe that the end justifies the means. Why are they so dishonest?

[Bluebell]

There are monks that do self-immolation.

Are they able to turn off the pain?

lets hope.

[Parsons]

What a coincidence. I was just theorizing this morning that the rate of growth of hair on your head seems to be a result of being in 3rd density and must have something to do with the veil. I've seen super long head-hair on women (and some men), yet I've never seen or heard of an animal where their hair just keeps growing until you have to cut it.

[AnthroHeart]

What a coincidence. I was just theorizing this morning that the rate of growth of hair on your head seems to be a result of being in 3rd density and must have something to do with the veil. I've seen super long head-hair on women (and some men), yet I've never seen or heard of an animal where their hair just keeps growing until you have to cut it.

Cocker Spaniels keep growing and need to be cut.

[Bluebell]

What a coincidence. I was just theorizing this morning that the rate of growth of hair on your head seems to be a result of being in 3rd density and must have something to do with the veil.

what???????????????????????? please explain 

[anagogy]

This issue becomes a bit tangled, because some of these stories/studies on yogi's maybe them accessing chi and using that to prevent physical injury, rather than them sustaining injury and then not feeling the pain (thinking here of Shaolin Monks).

so I think a distinction may have to be made about using 'energy' to achieve certain bodily effects, and the actual penetrating of the Body Veil to directly access the functions that Ra is referencing.

Personally, I don't think any such distinction need be made.  In any function, whether it be the simple operation of your physical appendages such as your fingers on the keyboard, or the unconscious functions such as the beating of your heart, or even overlapping functions, such as your breathing, which may be consciously controlled or simply left to your unconscious patterns, it is the use of directed energy which is energizing the action.  You might think of that directed energy as the work of the life force or chi.  There are unconsciously directed currents of life force, and there are consciously directed currents of lifeforce.  

As surprising as it may be to hear, piercing the bodily veil may be as easy as simply declaring that the body is no longer complex at a very deep level of our being.  We simply believe deeply that those levels of information are cut off from our conscious access, and thus, that is how they behave.  We could adopt the opposite belief, and overtime as the belief took root, and grew the flowers of manifestation, we would achieve a growing awareness and sensitivity to the information we had heretofore divorced from our conscious awareness.  

In consciousness, all barriers are illusory.  

[anagogy]

That self-immolation video led me to this one. Not sure what to think.

I remember reading an article awhile back where some people attempted to verify that particular story, and they could find no such evidence of such a monk by the name, in that place, existing.

In all likelihood, it was a contrivance (read: bull$hit) concocted by somebody to use as a weapon to bring more Buddhists into the Christian religious construct.

[tsh]

What a coincidence. I was just theorizing this morning that the rate of growth of hair on your head seems to be a result of being in 3rd density and must have something to do with the veil. I've seen super long head-hair on women (and some men), yet I've never seen or heard of an animal where their hair just keeps growing until you have to cut it.

well, we shave our merino sheep for wool. does that count as hair?

[Monica]

Very thoughtful post!

There is a community of people who take the body quite seriously in terms of their spirituality. In contrast to those who think of the body as merely 'mechanical', these people believe that the body is a mirror of the soul, and each bodily ailment a representation of emotional or spiritual issues that needs balancing. They believe that the mind and emotions impact the body, and vice versa, and seek to raise the vibration of the physical body, becoming immune to common viruses, cancer and other diseases, lengthening their lifespan, and some pursue peak athletic prowess. The ultimate destination of this is a lightening of the physical body complex, a finer vibration, even to the point of mutating their DNA and more easily traversing alternate realities, perhaps even penetrating the Veil itself.

[Monica]

The display I remember best was a man with a spear. He jams the butt into the ground, puts the point against his throat and leans into it hard enough to bend the shaft almost to the breaking point.

Yes, these feats are common among Kung Fu/Chi Kung masters. Taoist and Hindu folklore are full of stories of master who sat in meditation for 500 years, or reattached severed limbs, ate molten nails, stuff like that.

An excellent source of these tales is Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramanhansa Yogananda.

I haven't heard of anyone eating nails recently, but even today there are amazing feats in the martial arts/Chi Kung community.

For that matter, on a totally different note, I think some of the more 'extreme' sports (the least of which is rock climbing) are pretty amazing. Such attunement to the body...but is there more to it? Like a subconscious death wish maybe? Or a spiritual yearning to escape the confines of the physical vehicle? I have wondered why these people pursue such challenges, fraught with potentially devastating risk.

To perform such feats, their must harmonize their body and mind with perfect focus. I find this fascinating.

[Monica]

It does appear that we overlook the use of the body as a tool.

4.17 Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.

The second part has to do with the disciplines of the body complexes. In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.

The third area is the spiritual, and in this area the first two disciplines are connected through the attainment of contact with intelligent infinity.

Agreed. Good find!

So, what do you think Ra means by the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions?

[Monica]

*watches in awe and strongly ponders the wisdom of reapplying for martial arts now that the mind is clearer and the impurity of the heart makes existential sense.

Don't worry. That's very advanced, extreme stuff!

[Monica]

Otherwise, back to the original topic, I definitely believe that practice, meditation, and\or energy work can help create a closer mind/body/spirit unity and thus give people greater control over their body and its functions.  How far can such control go?  Who knows!  Personally, I like the ambiguity.  ANY growth in such areas undoubtedly aids spiritual growth, and there's potentially no real limit to how far it could be pushed, if someone wanted to dedicate their living work to gaining such mastery.  Nor would such a life be in any way wasted, I think.

You brought up a good point:

Controlling the body by sheer force of will

vs

Raising the vibration of the body so that it resonates more harmoniously with the mind and spirit, rather than being veiled from them

...

[native]

Agreed. Good find!

So, what do you think Ra means by the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions?

It is apparently many things.. 61.6 and 64.2. I actually have experience with this involving myself and another that resulted in progress (which was quite magical) once the catalyst was understood more clearly.

Ra makes a reference to the unmanifested self in 61.6 that doesn't normally need balancing..here is the definition for reference.

[Parsons]

What a coincidence. I was just theorizing this morning that the rate of growth of hair on your head seems to be a result of being in 3rd density and must have something to do with the veil.

what???????????????????????? please explain 

With the exception of cocker spaniels (apparently), it seems that all animals are able to maintain a certain length of hair without having to cut it. Human hair on our heads just grows out of control if you don't cut it. I don't know of any other species (or species bred by humans) that does this. Hair presumably is shed or stops growing at a certain length depending on the animal.

I'm arguing that has everything to do with the 3rd density veil. We are unable to manually regulate the length of our hair just as we can't manually control our heart beating.

[Plenum]

17 posts were split into a new thread.

[split] "Christianity makes me afraid."

a portion of APeacefulWarrior's posts will be referenced here, as it applies to the OP of this thread.

Otherwise, back to the original topic, I definitely believe that practice, meditation, and\or energy work can help create a closer mind/body/spirit unity and thus give people greater control over their body and its functions.  How far can such control go?  Who knows!  Personally, I like the ambiguity.  ANY growth in such areas undoubtedly aids spiritual growth, and there's potentially no real limit to how far it could be pushed, if someone wanted to dedicate their living work to gaining such mastery.  Nor would such a life be in any way wasted, I think.

cheers guys.

Plenum

[APeacefulWarrior]

You brought up a good point:

Controlling the body by sheer force of will

vs

Raising the vibration of the body so that it resonates more harmoniously with the mind and spirit, rather than being veiled from them

...

I don't see those as dichotomous, actually, but rather as harmonious. My basic understanding is that as vibration levels rise, the will automatically vibrates in sympathetic ways. The will becomes "in tune" with the rest of the mind/body/spirit/S-M-C/etc complexes, such that the will becomes a will to do as the vibrations call it to do.

If I speak of control somewhat bluntly, it may be because I did find -earlier in my inner journeys- that it seemed to take a lot of force of will, as you say, to overcome various blocks and other messed-up things in my head. I ended up sort of pushing through them, and then only later coming to see the more subtle\flowing ways of obtaining those same ends. I'm not sure whether this is something I "had" to do or not. I'm aware that it's fundamentally a choice, but at the same time, it seems that I had to go through the pushing-through stage to see what was on the other side, and I'm not sure I would've been able to go straight to the flowing without the pushing.

If that makes any sense, LOL.

Or perhaps I've developed enough force of will that I have to do something with it, and I find that, well, being willfully unwillful is the best focus I can find for those energies. In any case, I don't find that my "force of will" is going away, but rather needs to be carefully directed so it doesn't get used as a blunt object as much as I can avoid it.