Do we get more out of suffering?

[AnthroHeart]

Just below the surface I am cruel more than I am kind.

[Jeremy]

Just below the surface I am cruel more than I am kind.

Well If you continue to think that way,  nothing will ever change. Penetrating the veil isn't something to be taken lightly in my opinion. Considering your past,  such penetration could further exacerbate existing mental instabilities. Just be careful is all I ask brother. 

[AnthroHeart]

I want to reprogram my beliefs. Somewhere deep I am a gentle fairy.

[Minyatur]

I want to reprogram my beliefs. Somewhere deep I am a gentle fairy.

Somewhere deep I am a fire that burns.

[AnthroHeart]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

[Minyatur]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

What if you came here to learn to love what you usually are not?

[AnthroHeart]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

What if you came here to learn to love what you usually are not?

It would be counter-intuitive so probably very true.
I am here to love All That Is.

[Minyatur]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

What if you came here to learn to love what you usually are not?

It would be counter-intuitive so probably very true.
I am here to love All That Is.

Picture your higher self as that which cannot attain the Light himself and as such you came here in order to bring yourself closer to it.

[AnthroHeart]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

What if you came here to learn to love what you usually are not?

It would be counter-intuitive so probably very true.
I am here to love All That Is.

Picture your higher self as that which cannot attain the Light himself and as such you came here in order to bring yourself closer to it.

Closer to the Light of 7D ?

[Minyatur]

I want to coddle that fairy within me. It was the image I saw after the other stuff cleared.

What if you came here to learn to love what you usually are not?

It would be counter-intuitive so probably very true.
I am here to love All That Is.

Picture your higher self as that which cannot attain the Light himself and as such you came here in order to bring yourself closer to it.

Closer to the Light of 7D ?

Yes, there is ressitance to that Light which needs to be worked on prior to entering it. That is what we all are doing, what we always have been doing as we grew in awareness.

[AnthroHeart]

Your feedback has given me a purpose. I have always balanced distortions but I did not know why. I think changing my username also helped me to dig more for it.

[Minyatur]

Your feedback has given me a purpose. I have always balanced distortions but I did not know why. I think changing my username also helped me to dig more for it.

Glad to help, I am also giving myself insights at the same time and learn from your responses. That's how Geminis work I guess, I tend to be very stagnant if I don't speak with others.

[AnthroHeart]

How can we feel/see our distortions in order to balance them, to move closer into the Light? I take it our distortions make it burn if we get too close to the Light. I've used meditation, but I don't see the distortions easily.

[Minyatur]

How can we feel/see our distortions in order to balance them, to move closer into the Light? I take it our distortions make it burn if we get too close to the Light. I've used meditation, but I don't see the distortions easily.

That is something I am trying to understand, I'd say the first step is to learn to know yourself. I live experiences and try to distill the love/light from them, often they serve to understand other-selves just as much as self. If you don't understand why you'd act yourself under given circumstances, you can't expect to understand others who act similary without having lived their circumstances.

The more you work on certain distortions, the more you can get to work on other distortions. When there will be none left, your awareness will be One with the All in perfect Unity. What I'm learning to perceive is my unconscious resistance to the work that needs to be done, which is not easy in itself.

You need to dig your own shadow self, which you unconsciously place behind the veil or behind a psychic filter if you will.

[APeacefulWarrior]

In my own work digging into my head, I find it's often quite productive to take the attitude of a three-year-old: Keep asking "why?" and don't stop until you hit a brick wall. Accept whatever answer comes.

Like... One of the hardest things for me is getting past certain feelings of inferiority/inadequacy, and learning to accept that the Creator accepts me, as it were. I was raised in the US South, so I think a lot of that neo-Puritan self-hating vibe got into my head that way. I find it much better to think in terms of energies and karma, yet there's still a little demon called "Sin" riding around in my psyche and I can't entirely seem to shake the l'il bugger off.

(At least not yet...)

So one of my biggest blockages is a lack of love of self that then blinds me to the love I receive from other-selves and, of course, the higher selves. However, I am at least aware of this distortion, so I can keep poking and prodding it and asking "Why?" over and over until I can dig down to the root of it. I just have to keep learning to accept that I'm NOT being judged for my failings and I only fail myself if I cover them up out of fear. (And it took a whole mess of "Why"s just to get to this point.)

Find a distortion. Ask why. That'll probably lead to more distortions. Ask why some more. Eventually, you might come to a primal distortion that, if you can work out why it's there, will untangle many of the "sub-distortions" that spawn from it.

A cliche (but still common) real-world example might be a woman who ends up in a string of abusive relationships and eventually figures out that it boils down to daddy\acceptance issues. Once she figures out that she dates a-holes because her dad was an a-hole and she's still trying to gain a love from him she'll never actually receive, she can get past the primal distortion and, in turn, almost always starts dating better people.

Distortions are complicated self-reinforcing things that like to create new distortions to justify their own existence. That's why I find "Why?" to be the best tool for finding their roots. No matter how high the distortions have built themselves up, the Truth is still at the bottom, if you can dig down to it.

[Minyatur]

@APeacefulWarrior About your exemple of the woman in an abusive relationship, I am pretty sure some women do accept the abusive relationships because they do care and love about the other person and rather wish to understand accept it's distortions to help the person heal rather than get away from him that he feels betrayed and reinforces his distortions.

Not saying this is all cases, surely not but I am quite sure there many cases like this. My ex was depressive and hated herself and it often got to me in many ways which I never blamed her for. I never wanted to be far from her but I surely can't say my life isn't easier without her as I don't have emotional issues of my own. What's the point of blaming someone because the person is suffering? Sure you can get away and let the person suffer alone on it's own but it's only a given way to love self among many other ways to love self and other-selves. If you care about someone that suffers, it isn't supprising that some will remain near even if it isn't 'good' for them.

One thing I think is important to observe, is the entanglement between souls. You may think some shouldn't be near each other yet that is part of their group experience to understand themselves and other-selves. It's all love, just love, always.

[APeacefulWarrior]

OK, fair enough, but I was honestly just trying to come up with an example that sometimes happens IRL that demonstrates how an underlying distortion can give rise to sub-distortions that can't be resolved without the original distortion being addressed. I mean, I've seen guys with similar mommy issues doing the same thing. It was just a random example of the principle.

[anagogy]

The more we suffer, do we learn more?

Sometimes you learn less.  Suffering is no guarantee of learning something.  For example, you might do something stupid and burn yourself, and then you do the same stupid thing again and burn yourself yet again.

When we have passed on, will we be more thankful for a life which we suffered more, or less?

Only if we legitimately thought is was the only way to drive a lesson home.  Every soul is different.

Is suffering necessary for spiritual growth?

Nope.  The advantage of suffering is this: when you really know what you don't want, you then become equally clarified about what you DO want (the opposite of whatever you are experiencing).

I consider any challenge to be suffering to an extent, depending on your mindset.

The aversive nature of negative things is a deliberate mechanism of our reality.  Suffering is there as a teacher, but the student does not always listen to the teacher.  Attention to what is not wanted is the ultimate cause of suffering.  Sharp pain really grabs the attention, and helps perpetuate its reality. Whenever you experience something painful, it is an invitation to turn your attention to something better. Just like when you burn your hand, it is an invitation, or admonition, to not do that again.

People think they are doomed to certain circumstances and that things never change.  But the hard truth to accept is this: reality is *always* changing (in our relative illusion).  However, in these circumstances where they appear to not be, it is because they keep changing to the same thing over and over again.  At the end of the day, most people aren't really willing to accept the responsibility of creating their own realities.  It is understandable.  Identity maintains stability by resisting change, because change threatens identity, which is subconsciously perceived as death, something to be avoided.  People fear change for this reason.  People love their comfort zones, even if they are miserable comfort zones.  They have learned to tolerate a certain level of misery, so they keep trudging through it day after day, because, well, hey, its predictable right?

To change circumstances you have to begin by changing your thoughts.  The secret is to make small changes in thinking every day, which will eventually snowball into big changes in what manifests in life.  Affirmations can be helpful in this regard.  

The strongest forces in creation start out as the most gentle currents of thought.

Is it all mindset where you choose to suffer or not?

Suffering is caused by identification.  There is a place in consciousness where everything is just transitory thought: whether it is pain or pleasure, they are not exalted or denigrated.  They become neither aversive, or attractive.  Eventually transitory dualities like that are done away with.  One learns to stand on the river bank and watch the sensation and attach no particular opinion towards it.  I've experienced episodes of it.  When in these states (trance states?), pain is not perceived as aversive.  For example, one time I took a starkly cold shower that by all normal human interpretation would have been shockingly aversive and cold, but in that state it was perceived as "just another sensation".  Not bad.  Not good.  Just different.

I don't want to think that I am doomed to suffer because my higher self thinks it will get more out of it.

You aren't.  If anything, your higher self is trying hard (within the limits of free will) to get you to turn your attention to what is wanted, and thus end your suffering.  Suffering is not exalted on the spiritual planes except to the extent that it serves as motivation for you to tune your consciousness to more harmonious circumstances.

[Wai]

Do we get more out of suffering?

Of course we do!

Why would 95% of world's population choose a life of suffering (from poverty, poor health, physical/mentally challenged, bad relationships . . .)  at their life review, unless they know there is something to be gained by suffering.

If I know I will get nothing from of a life of suffering, I would have chosen a life full of wealth, good health, and good relationships.

    

[Plenum]

well, I think suffering is pretty much inevitable on a 3d planet, especially one such as ours.  3rd Density has 100 times more intense catalyst than any other density (intensity refers both to the quality and the quantity of this catalyst), and until one has become adept at handling catalyst, this overabundance of catalyst wreaks confusion and chaos on the mind and body.  It also causes ongoing intertial affects due to the misalignment of the self to the environment because catalyst is not a) recognised, and b) even if recognised, not effectively processed.

There is a reason why the optimal life span on a 3d planet is 900 years.  The first 150-200 years are spent on balancing the mind complex and the body complex, so it is in a position to process the spiritual complex.

Being a Wanderer does not make one immune to this effect; as a Wanderer is laden with both a 3d mind and a 3d body.  Both have to be trained and disciplined, like any other entity.

20.24 Questioner: Can you tell me why nine hundred years is the optimum life span?

Ra: I am Ra. The mind/body/spirit complex of third density has perhaps one hundred times as intensive a program of catalytic action from which to distill distortions and learn/teachings than any other of the densities. Thus the learn/teachings are most confusing to the mind/body/spirit complex which is, shall we say, inundated by the ocean of experience.

During the first, shall we say, perhaps 150 to 200 of your years as you measure time, a mind/body/spirit complex is going through the process of a spiritual childhood, the mind and the body not enough in a disciplined configuration to lend clarity to the spiritual influxes. Thus, the remaining time span is given to optimize the understandings which result from experience itself.

the business of working with spiritual influxes is the business of polarity.  And if we are in a state of what Ra calls 'perpetual spiritual childhood', then no wonder the Polarization rates are so low on this planet.

Of course, not everything is lost, as many entities have taught themselves to work within the constraints of such a shortened lifespan.

20.25 Questioner: Then at present it would seem that our life span is much too short for those who are new to third-density lessons. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Those entities which have, in some way, learned/taught themselves the appropriate distortions for rapid growth can now work within the confines of the shorter life span. However, the greater preponderance of your entities find themselves in what may be considered a perpetual childhood.

but the fact remains, by the time most people are reaching a state of disciplined awareness, death is waiting.

To get back to the original question; suffering is the effect of confusion.  Confusion is not registering the inputs into consciousness accurately (bodily inputs, spiritual inputs), and then that confusion lends itself to acting out of alignment with the environmental and social fields around us.  That misalignment creates distortion, which then is experienced as pain and suffering.

If one is able to recognise and process catalyst as it happens (or at least on a daily basis), then misalignments will not occur.  But the fact is, that we develop inertia along certain distorted habits, and don't even realise that those habits are the result of long standing confused recognition of catalyst.

Put this another way; if the so called awakened ones, and the more learned and loving souls were around to share their lessons for longer (APeacefulWarrior referenced the ministry of Jesus if he had stayed around 30 or 40 more years, or if Buddha had lived to 500, or Carla was around to complete this transition phase from 3d to 4d), then how much more guidance and insight could we draw upon?

This reduced lifespan, even though a consequence of not using opportune conditions, nevertheless results in a quagmire of non-progress.  It's basically people getting trapped in a cycle of ignorance, and never living long enough (150-200 years+) to realise the mistakes of their youth, and build on their experience.

So more suffering happens, as more ignorance multiplies in families and gets entrenched in social and political mores.

True ignorance is unawareness of the rules of the game of 3d; which is: recognise your catalyst, use your catalyst, polarize, and choose love (love of self or love of the other).

Once you have knowledge of the game of 3d, your suffering can be incrementally reduced over time; and you start contributing less of your suffering to the collective whole.

If you don't want pain and suffering; learn your catalyst.  That's really the only answer that needs to be given.  As much as I like Buddhism, and it's 8 foldpath etc, it doesn't lend insight into individual catalyst.  That is where the rubber meets the road, and you're responsible for your own vehicle and it's speed of progress.

[APeacefulWarrior]

This is just a pet theory of mine, but I think in some ways the short individual lifespans may ultimately have the result of pushing human society as a whole towards higher-level thinking. Especially since the birth of the Internet, which has made manifest so many of the things that both channeled sources and the great human philosophers have been trying to say for so many years.

There are now more people alive -especially among the youth- who truly grok interconnectivity because they live it. They see ever-fewer distinctions between different groups of humans, and are coming to understand that all people really ARE pretty fundamentally equal. Even if, for example, an American youth disapproves of things done by the Russian or Iranian governments, they don't hold those things against the citizens of those countries nearly so much.

(How could they, when they're probably playing COD or Eve Online or GTA or whatever with kids from those very same countries?)

People - I think - are starting to externalize the higher realities, specifically because it makes it easier for humans and their short lifespans to comprehend. We're making manifest high-level systems through scale models of their behaviors. In many ways, the Internet as a whole and especially specific sub-groups are coming to function as S-M-Cs. Consider the Reddit "Hivemind" which is often quite effective at legal\political movements when it sees need.

And as our technology expands to increasingly imitate higher-dimensional forms, it creates an environment (I hope) where "childish" humans are simply immersed in an experience that allows them to perceive those forms for themselves, thus shortening the timespan traditionally needed to gain understanding of some of these matters.

(Obviously, this isn't a perfect situation, but it seems like as good an alternative as we can get while under the Veil.)

[Shawnna]

As seen via a photo posted by Prince Ea on facebook.

[Nicholas]

I think suffering has apophatic qualities to it, in that the springboard to union with the Creator is authentic joy. A sustained lack of joy, or suffering, I would liken to refusing to move away from windows 98 software. As anagogy sais, it will serve you less and less.