Learning to Love Indifference

[Aion]

When the attacker attacks, I believe in the offer of infringement they are opening themselves to whatever it is that they offer. In otherwords if you were to harm them as a result of self-defense it would not be an infringement on their will because they already invited themselves to engage in harm and so when they receive harm it is actually already within their free will, they have accepted this the moment they decided to harm another.

I understand this differently.  I believe there is a distinction between self-defense and retaliation.  Self-defense is protecting the self by blocking the attack or leaving the interaction.  Retaliation is inflicting harm on the attacker.  Any time we return harm for harm, it damages us (karmically) and provides catalyst to the other party.  It doesn't matter if it's in retaliation or if we're the original instigator.  What others do is their karma, what we do is ours.

The other level of this topic that hasn't yet been mentioned is emotion.  Emotion is the essence of our being, it's how our consciousness experiences and channels the Creator's energy as it flows through us.  At that level, there is a vast difference between unconditional love and indifference.  They are entirely distinct states of being with nothing in common, energetically/emotionally.

This is relevant to self-defense also.  Positive self-defense includes transforming our instinctive negative emotional reactions into love and acceptance for the attacker.  Learning to react to catalyst with love and acceptance is the essence of the positive path, and all kinds of good things happen when we learn to do this.  We have the examples of Jesus, who showed us that it is more beneficial to die than to cause harm to one's attackers, and even Socrates, who said we must "improve our enemies".  Someone else - I don't recall who - said, "If I've turned my enemy into a friend, have I not defeated my enemy?"  All of those express the same idea.  

One of the most useful things I've realized so far is this: there is no external reality.  All reality is internal; it's all about consciousness interacting with consciousness.  The rest is just props - which are simply ideas held in consciousness.  So, what happens or does not happen externally matters only insofar as it affects one's own consciousness and the consciousness of those around oneself, and those effects take place primarily through emotion, which is energy.  And the highest energy in all circumstances, as far as I can tell, is love, the universal healing and integrating force.

Have you ever been in a fist fight? Even blocking an opponent may potentially harm them, it's something you have to accept when you choose to defend yourself. The other option is to martyr yourself. So you only block, what if they break your guard and proceed to harm you because you are only guarding?

I certainly appreciate your reasoning philosophically and ideally, but it doesn't always seem to relate to actual experience.

Let's see some love for the fist hammering your face.

Tan, here also I see intent as important.  Is your intent to limit harm to yourself, or to destroy the attacker?  Those are different energies and states of being, and create a LOT of space to move in between retaliation and martyrdom.

Also, in the course of a fight/argument/conflict negative emotion can often rage, but the trick, I find, is to transform that into love and forgiveness for self and other as early as possible afterwards, once the animal instincts recede.  Ideally before going to sleep, because of my strong suspicion that the day's karma gets consolidated into our personality configuration during sleep.

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

That is where my point comes up though, even if there isn't intent to harm, harm sometimes happens in the course of events. Even if your intent is to limit harm to yourself and your attacker, the fact is that their intention may still have been to harm you, and so if in the process of attempting to limit harm you harm them it would not be considered an infringement. If you had've brought the chair down, knowing the harm to be in excess of the limit of harm, then you would have gone beyond the law and then been infringing yourself.

Also, where's the place for the people who genuinely enjoy fighting for fun? For example, I know plenty of LARPers who are very in to mock-combat. I think there has to be a line drawn between actual malicious antagonism, violent intent and the use of martial arts (key word arts). Many people who are in to martial arts aren't interested in harming others, but many will gladly exchange blows with another martial artist for enjoyment. I think that violence isn't always so clearly defined as negative.

[Lighthead]

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

How did you hear the "STS organizer" say that? In your head?

[Minyatur]

Required by who? Infinity? How can infinity require anything?

I am not denying infinite cosmic oneness interconnect ness or whatever, I'm saying, so what?

If infinity didn't require anything, there would be nothing.

Again, totally circular thinking. Infinity would not be infinity if it was lacking.

Reality is circular, evolution of consciousness is circular.

Circular thinkings are purposeful as awareness changes with time.

Yeah, but you have to leave the thought you are on to get back to it.

Each thing in it's own time.

[Lighthead]

When the attacker attacks, I believe in the offer of infringement they are opening themselves to whatever it is that they offer. In otherwords if you were to harm them as a result of self-defense it would not be an infringement on their will because they already invited themselves to engage in harm and so when they receive harm it is actually already within their free will, they have accepted this the moment they decided to harm another.

I understand this differently.  I believe there is a distinction between self-defense and retaliation.  Self-defense is protecting the self by blocking the attack or leaving the interaction.  Retaliation is inflicting harm on the attacker.  Any time we return harm for harm, it damages us (karmically) and provides catalyst to the other party.  It doesn't matter if it's in retaliation or if we're the original instigator.  What others do is their karma, what we do is ours.

The other level of this topic that hasn't yet been mentioned is emotion.  Emotion is the essence of our being, it's how our consciousness experiences and channels the Creator's energy as it flows through us.  At that level, there is a vast difference between unconditional love and indifference.  They are entirely distinct states of being with nothing in common, energetically/emotionally.

This is relevant to self-defense also.  Positive self-defense includes transforming our instinctive negative emotional reactions into love and acceptance for the attacker.  Learning to react to catalyst with love and acceptance is the essence of the positive path, and all kinds of good things happen when we learn to do this.  We have the examples of Jesus, who showed us that it is more beneficial to die than to cause harm to one's attackers, and even Socrates, who said we must "improve our enemies".  Someone else - I don't recall who - said, "If I've turned my enemy into a friend, have I not defeated my enemy?"  All of those express the same idea.  

One of the most useful things I've realized so far is this: there is no external reality.  All reality is internal; it's all about consciousness interacting with consciousness.  The rest is just props - which are simply ideas held in consciousness.  So, what happens or does not happen externally matters only insofar as it affects one's own consciousness and the consciousness of those around oneself, and those effects take place primarily through emotion, which is energy.  And the highest energy in all circumstances, as far as I can tell, is love, the universal healing and integrating force.

Have you ever been in a fist fight? Even blocking an opponent may potentially harm them, it's something you have to accept when you choose to defend yourself. The other option is to martyr yourself. So you only block, what if they break your guard and proceed to harm you because you are only guarding?

I certainly appreciate your reasoning philosophically and ideally, but it doesn't always seem to relate to actual experience.

Let's see some love for the fist hammering your face.

Tan, here also I see intent as important.  Is your intent to limit harm to yourself, or to destroy the attacker?  Those are different energies and states of being, and create a LOT of space to move in between retaliation and martyrdom.

Also, in the course of a fight/argument/conflict negative emotion can often rage, but the trick, I find, is to transform that into love and forgiveness for self and other as early as possible afterwards, once the animal instincts recede.  Ideally before going to sleep, because of my strong suspicion that the day's karma gets consolidated into our personality configuration during sleep.

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

That is where my point comes up though, even if there isn't intent to harm, harm sometimes happens in the course of events. Even if your intent is to limit harm to yourself and your attacker, the fact is that their intention may still have been to harm you, and so if in the process of attempting to limit harm you harm them it would not be considered an infringement. If you had've brought the chair down, knowing the harm to be in excess of the limit of harm, then you would have gone beyond the law and then been infringing yourself.

Also, where's the place for the people who genuinely enjoy fighting for fun? For example, I know plenty of LARPers who are very in to mock-combat. I think there has to be a line drawn between actual malicious antagonism, violent intent and the use of martial arts (key word arts). Many people who are in to martial arts aren't interested in harming others, but many will gladly exchange blows with another martial artist for enjoyment. I think that violence isn't always so clearly defined as negative.

I can't get rid of this picture in my mind of Tan.rar, like a true adept, with a cigarette in his mouth hammering back at someone with his fist. Lol.

[Aion]

I don't smoke cigarettes but maybe a doobie.

[Minyatur]

Am I the only one that never got frictions with others? The only person I've ever fought with was one of my close friend because we would get too excited while watching star wars as kids...

I guess there's been people who tried to get at me at different times, but I'm usually always cool headed so it never goes into something big. I've actually been ressented because I remain too much cool headed because it's as if I don't have any principles and blablabla.

[Stranger]

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

How did you hear the "STS organizer" say that? In your head?

Yes, I developed the capacity to channel in this fashion a long time ago. We all share one mind, so we can reach out to any entity in the Universe we are aware of -- with the awareness of their conscious existence serving like a telephone number (i.e., if you don't know the Sun is a conscious being, you won't contact it).  Other entities can do the same and reach out to us.

[Minyatur]

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

How did you hear the "STS organizer" say that? In your head?

Yes, I developed the capacity to channel in this fashion a long time ago. We all share one mind, so we can reach out to any entity in the Universe we are aware of -- with the awareness of their conscious existence serving like a telephone number (i.e., if you don't know the Sun is a conscious being, you won't contact it).  Other entities can do the same and reach out to us.

I tried contacting the sun, it went like this.

Some kind of "hey",

Some kind of "hey",

-- end of transmission --

[Aion]

Am I the only one that never got frictions with others? The only person I've ever fought with was one of my close friend because we would get too excited while watching star wars as kids...

I guess there's been people who tried to get at me at different times, but I'm usually always cool headed so it never goes into something big. I've actually been ressented because I remain too much cool headed because it's as if I don't have any principles and blablabla.

When I was growing up we, myself and my two brothers, would wrestle with our Mom. We're all interested in warriorship and martial arts, so I guess it has always been a part of me growing up. Love watching kung fu movies, especially older ones where the martial arts were more real.

Consider that many martial arts were developed by Buddhists. It's said that even the Buddha carried a sword with him because even he needs to protect himself in the wilds.

The sword represents wisdom. As such, it can be positive or negative, depending on its use.

[Aion]

The Shaolin monks say, "martials arts are for vanquishing evil, no more, no less".

[Stranger]

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

How did you hear the "STS organizer" say that? In your head?

Yes, I developed the capacity to channel in this fashion a long time ago. We all share one mind, so we can reach out to any entity in the Universe we are aware of -- with the awareness of their conscious existence serving like a telephone number (i.e., if you don't know the Sun is a conscious being, you won't contact it).  Other entities can do the same and reach out to us.

I tried contacting the sun, it went like this.

Some kind of "hey",

Some kind of "hey",

-- end of transmission --

It takes practice.  I think practice strengthens whatever neural connections allow this to happen, in a similar fashion to the way piano players' brain areas associated with the fingers become larger and more developed.  It sounds like a good first step.  The sun is a purely loving entity.  He actually healed my hand once, instantaneously, after I'd had pain there for many weeks.  I asked, he agreed, I felt this wonderful warmth and the pain was gone.  It's really nice to live in an STO world, filled with interactions based on sharing love such as these.

[Stranger]

That is where my point comes up though, even if there isn't intent to harm, harm sometimes happens in the course of events. Even if your intent is to limit harm to yourself and your attacker, the fact is that their intention may still have been to harm you, and so if in the process of attempting to limit harm you harm them it would not be considered an infringement. If you had've brought the chair down, knowing the harm to be in excess of the limit of harm, then you would have gone beyond the law and then been infringing yourself.

Also, where's the place for the people who genuinely enjoy fighting for fun? For example, I know plenty of LARPers who are very in to mock-combat. I think there has to be a line drawn between actual malicious antagonism, violent intent and the use of martial arts (key word arts). Many people who are in to martial arts aren't interested in harming others, but many will gladly exchange blows with another martial artist for enjoyment. I think that violence isn't always so clearly defined as negative.

I agree with everything you said there. As I mentioned, the intent and the type of emotion generated can imbue the same event with very different true meaning.

[Aion]

Test your might! Mortal Kombat!

[Minyatur]

Test your might! Mortal Kombat!

Super smash bros 4 could very well solve every problem in Creation.

I've been preparing a project to apply this game as a resolution to any kind of conflict. One outcome might be perfect harmony and the other might be the destruction of all things.

[Minyatur]

Am I the only one that never got frictions with others? The only person I've ever fought with was one of my close friend because we would get too excited while watching star wars as kids...

I guess there's been people who tried to get at me at different times, but I'm usually always cool headed so it never goes into something big. I've actually been ressented because I remain too much cool headed because it's as if I don't have any principles and blablabla.

When I was growing up we, myself and my two brothers, would wrestle with our Mom. We're all interested in warriorship and martial arts, so I guess it has always been a part of me growing up. Love watching kung fu movies, especially older ones where the martial arts were more real.

Consider that many martial arts were developed by Buddhists. It's said that even the Buddha carried a sword with him because even he needs to protect himself in the wilds.

The sword represents wisdom. As such, it can be positive or negative, depending on its use.

I meant it more in a way that I never actually had to make choices as to defend myself or not. 

[Minyatur]

Funny you should mention the fist in the face.  I've had that exact situation, and not all that long ago.  Some negative entities (not incarnate) were trying to prevent me from taking an important trip, and with the help of some thugs created the catalyst of a fistfight.   I recall distinctly the moment where I could have brought a chair down on my attacker's head, and was certainly tempted, but chose not to because I did not want to harm him.  Afterwards, one of the STS organizers of this event growled, "how did you enjoy that?".  I calmly replied, "It was helpful. I probably needed it on some level."  He almost exploded with frustration.  In a large part because of the way I handled it emotionally/spiritually, I was able to get over the whole thing very quickly to the point where it did not bother me at all.

How did you hear the "STS organizer" say that? In your head?

Yes, I developed the capacity to channel in this fashion a long time ago. We all share one mind, so we can reach out to any entity in the Universe we are aware of -- with the awareness of their conscious existence serving like a telephone number (i.e., if you don't know the Sun is a conscious being, you won't contact it).  Other entities can do the same and reach out to us.

I tried contacting the sun, it went like this.

Some kind of "hey",

Some kind of "hey",

-- end of transmission --

It takes practice.  I think practice strengthens whatever neural connections allow this to happen, in a similar fashion to the way piano players' brain areas associated with the fingers become larger and more developed.  It sounds like a good first step.  The sun is a purely loving entity.  He actually healed my hand once, instantaneously, after I'd had pain there for many weeks.  I asked, he agreed, I felt this wonderful warmth and the pain was gone.  It's really nice to live in an STO world, filled with interactions based on sharing love such as these.

Well I could probably speak with the sun, but it did as it did with Ra. I knew not what to say past the "hey" and then it feels awkward more than anything.

Tried once more went like this :

Hello Sun,

Hello Marc-André,

How are you?

I am ever well. How are you.

I also am ever well despite not being well sometimes. I am going to bathe in your sunlight for a while.

Feel free to do so.

[Diana]

I'm just going through a really rough patch with myself.

I can't seem to comprehend how Indifference and Unconditional Love are any different in action when viewed side by side, especially when dealing with indifference.

I see it as.  In indifference you may sometimes act the same way as if you were providing unconditional love.

Someone attacks, with indifference or love as a response, does one not basically allow ones self to be attacked?
But is it still the fault of the attacked for letting the attacker attack?

Or.  My biggest issue is just plain indifference.  I'm having a hard time loving its infinite ways of letting people do whatever they want to me...

I understand what you're saying. I see it a little differently. It's not indifference, rather it is detachment. There is a difference here; indifference means you don't care, but detached means you may care but are not attached to any any outcome. It is like being in the wave function where all possibilities exist as opposed to the particle function, where one's preference has collapsed (or wants to collapse) the possibilities to a desired outcome.

I find at my most empowered phases or moments I am detached, but never really indifferent. It is a subtle difference.

[VanAlioSaldo]

@Diana
This does actually help me.

I'll try for an analogy though, my issue may just be isolated to 3D Free Will perspective versus...above perspectives.

A person walks into a life.  They get punched in the face and then are told they choose for this all to happen, and that its their fault, this, for getting punched.  Person shrugs it off being a cool open person.  Sits at a bar and the stool collapses, lifetender comes over and says its their fault, their responsibility, they need to pay for it, or else.

Person pays for the stool with whatever they had intended to use to buy something else.  Person has nothing left to pay for and so opts for a different life, on the way out gets told because they didn't do specific things they'll need to come back to eventually do things a better way, and that if they dont they'll have to pay for it somehow someway somewhere else.

Person says this wasnt what they wanted, gets told it was and that that isn't an excuse to not be thepreferred way you choose to have occur regardless if your as another person who knows nothing.

My issue is 3D, is it consensual to the beings who identify as separate from their 'actual identity'?

Does consenting, then becoming amnesiac but still bound by this Life Contact not identified as infringing the free will of the 3D being when they become aware of how things operate without memory of such?

When the person no longer consents, why isn't is considered in the whole of things?

Their suffering is used to learn, what happens when the being no longer consents on a 3D level regardless of what the soul wants?

Why is it indifference towards these views??  This single thing is pretty much shaking the entire foundation of the Law of One i have.  That being all is Love, experienced with free will.  Except All isn't if this is the case.  Free Will is ignored in 3D self-aware beings because they're treated as if they were the same being, when its highly clear they are not.

What gives...?

[Minyatur]

This duality may only come because the 3D entity knows not itself fully and for it to be so, it must be tested in various ways which brings change in awareness. At the end the entity would not regret any of it's path and that is where free will lies. The right to be of the entity which is made of it's whole path.

I cannot assure you this free will truly is, but it is what Ra calls the first distortion. Being the first distortion it would be the very essence of beingness.

[VanAlioSaldo]

Thats ignoring the entity, its an excuse still, trying to justify an entity's suffering with future results.

This universe makes 3D beings suffer. It goes at them with Love that is closer known as indifference on the third density.

It brings them catalyst that sometimes are excessive itd seem. So much so many do not finish several incarnations but are told they'll NEED to regardless.

That is not choice, nor free will. That is the Creator forcing a part of itself to do without regard for the free will of the unknowning being, who can identify as wholly separate.

And with perspective being reality, truly knows reality as such being apparently empty even with the whole LOO content filling it in only to provide several very disturbing manners of universal operation for that 3D being,

I could pull up very many sessions in the library alone of confederation sources trying to ease our pain by reminding us we choose to go through it all.

But as a 3D entity who knows not, and may NEVER know. I am expected to ignorantly just deal with it or when i find out, I'll just automatically consent to all i don't remember consenting to.

But wait. If i don't.

Doesn't matter because insert higher perspective here.

But we're told to use faith to make sense of it. I look at Earth and see those who have no faith, those who kill themselves as children.

I'm sorry but higher perspectives need to bridge some issues here because otherwise it sounds like I'm just supposed to see a universe that justifies the things it brings to people (not other entities, but the overall mechanics) despite literally indifferently not explaining or caring for this persperspective from this density.

No, i have a very huge issue the more i look and see and feel. This is such a sorrowful place even 6D entities refer to themselves as the brothers and sisters of sorrow.

Its designed to occur out this way.

Why is being abused needed to grow? What being would actually consent to this, while down here, going through it?
I know many will, but many won't. Why are they called excuse makers and ignored?

[Aion]

Every life has suffering, if you got a choice, what would you choose for your suffering to be? This is because we are all things, including suffering. However, we can balance suffering with enjoyment whenever we are able. Eventually one sees there is only experience, no good or bad, things occur without recompense to a lord and master. There is however something peculiar in this experience however and that is that you are part of it. You are the experience of yourself.

[Minyatur]

I think the confederation would want itself to remove the 3D entities that suffer from this place. But they had no saying in that these souls resonated with this place to incarnate or willingly in awareness chose to be here. All they can say is that it was not their own wish and they are probably saddened more than anything else.

Negative entities create the disharmony of this place but they too have no power to draw in souls in it. Souls are free to be where they need to be for themselves.

None have the right to break this resonance between souls and their space/time time/space location.

[Aion]

There are those that try.

[Minyatur]

If the future you would not want his past to be any other way because of how it shaped him into becoming what he became. Where should the line of free will be drawn?

[darklight]

Positive or negative, I'm ready to serve in the next density. Everything is better than trapped in the 3th density sinkhole.

[Minyatur]

Positive or negative, I'm ready to serve in the next density. Everything is better than trapped in the 3th density sinkhole.

But then again, 4D is a retrospective of 3D. Is not the sinkhole purposeful material for the next density?

[darklight]

But then again, 4D is a retrospective of 3D. Is not the sinkhole purposeful material for the next density?

It is.

But it is a very slow process.

[VanAlioSaldo]

Every life has suffering, if you got a choice, what would you choose for your suffering to be? This is because we are all things, including suffering. However, we can balance suffering with enjoyment whenever we are able. Eventually one sees there is only experience, no good or bad, things occur without recompense to a lord and master. There is however something peculiar in this experience however and that is that you are part of it. You are the experience of yourself.

I think the confederation would want itself to remove the 3D entities that suffer from this place. But they had no saying in that these souls resonated with this place to incarnate or willingly in awareness chose to be here. All they can say is that it was not their own wish and they are probably saddened more than anything else.

Negative entities create the disharmony of this place but they too have no power to draw in souls in it. Souls are free to be where they need to be for themselves.

None have the right to break this resonance between souls and their space/time time/space location.

If the future you would not want his past to be any other way because of how it shaped him into becoming what he became. Where should the line of free will be drawn?

If the future was based on the original premise like it acts like it is, that free will is actually present, then this issue for 3D wouldn't be here now.

If you try to rectify 3D from a higher perspective, you ignore 3D in the process.  If you try to justify 3D torture with higher perspectives it leaves me with extreme issues with the One Infinite as it is.

I am not talking about fist fights alone, or a singular murder or the horrors of the few and inbetween.

I'm talking about 3D BEINGS, every single self aware entity that is currently sure it is an individual here, with its own consent separate a soul identity because they can do such.

Because I am doing that literally right now, and I am pretty beyond furious, and I am trying so extremely hard not to lash out and be cruel.  Because I don't see it anymore, I don't comprehend it and I honestly don't believe that I could find myself in an existence where rape, murder, and torture are said to be 'choosen' by a Soul to experience, and yet Ra describes 'surprises'.

Do you consent to a surprise?

Even if that surprise is getting raped then killed by another?

Did you actually believe your soul said 'I want to get raped then killed'?

Then to try and over and over, tell me, I chose this suffering, I'm responsible for it.  But call my issues of these surprises and such, EXCUSES?

3D does not maintain Free Will.  You guys are using higher perspectives and overall views, ignoring, literally my point, 3D perspective in the current occurrence.

When a person wants to give up, why are they forced by the Universe, and I don't say forced lightly, but it seems one MUST complete, and MUST do things to progress, what happens if that impedes with the free will of the entity?  What happens when so many 3D entities all commit suicide, but they come to to be told they must do it all over again?

There is a disgusting amount of indifferent and ignorance towards the 3D existence and seemingly thing entire octave.

That I even have the thoughts that I'd rather cease and be Gone than 'enjoy' these 'aids' I 'desired', should be enough of a...Fricken clue to the whole.

There is SOMETHING WRONG.  I found something that does not resonate with me so deeply I don't even know what to do or say or how to respond or go about it...

I'm in a universe that justifies torturing self aware animals for their own good...
Can I leave entirely?  I'd rather go back to a non-aware state and show the Creator, first hand, that there will be at least one portion that said you messed up, and ceases trying to justify this insanity and this horror.

Because that is what this is.  You can talk about joy and pleasures.  Tell a person their 11 year old kid was killed in a car accident because they choose and desired to be before they reincarnated.  Tell a prison inmate he was raped because he choose and desired to be.  Tell a child they were abused and used because they choose and desired to be.

Watch, how fast, that person will be disgusted.

Ra says there are surprises.  Do you consent to surprises in the mysterious unknown before you reincarnate?  Do you as a soul give the universe complete consent?

More importantly, how does that override your 3D personality's consent?

I thought Free Will was absolute.  I see that 3D Free Will is utterly and completely ignored beyond the power they have to do it all themselves.  Which is not a lot in this world, which is less in areas.

I can't in good faith of an Unconditionally Loving Free Will operating universe, say Third Density, or perhaps this entire octave if the Higher Self forces you to take upon certain paths that are 'as is', is made of unconditional love, or has free will.

No, 3D is closer to Indifference.  Complete indifference towards the Human being.  What human being wants to be born just to be put through hell to help a soul evolve?  Does it get a choice?  When the soul joins the Human Being, did the human know and consent?

Or is the Soul and the whole Universe using 3D?

Because if it is.  The fury.  The absolute rage at existence.  Unconditional Love uses self-aware entities that way?

That isn't Love, nor is it Unconditional, nor is it proper or fair or correct or anything, except, wrong.

And in a universe that is clearly not made of Unconditional Love overall like it says it is, I honestly do not think the concepts of As Is are fairly applied to the ways of the whole system.

And if the system is designed, once again, to use Humans in that way.

I don't blame Earth if it used Nukes to defend itself from the operations of an indifferent uncaring universe towards 3D beings.

Did Humanity get a say?  Why do I notice this endless notion of 'you wanted this' but while you're here, you actually don't want this but you 'want this'.

As a Human being, a self aware humanoid entity, who was joined by a soul in the womb.

Did I.

I, the HUMAN.

Consent?

If not, then your Free Will First Distortion has failed me.  That is not consent.  In any way.  Does a developing fetus have the power to provide consent to the soul it experiences suddenly out of nowhere joining with it?  Or does it struggle and ultimately give up, or just not know and openly allow such?

If it struggles, is that consensual?

I do have a problem here.  Do you guys understand my problem now?

[VanAlioSaldo]

And please don't attribute disharmony to Service to Self individuals.  Free Will itself allows for indifference and ignorance of itself.

This is the way it is overall by the design and creation from the whole.  By that perspective alone.  I have a huge issue with the entire design.

If the Creator wishes to ruin itself, I don't want any part in it.  I literally feel at depths, disgust for this entire creation now.

You want to call this Unconditional Love?  Do as you please.  But I think I need to leave.  My idea of what is, clearly does not resonate with this set up at all.

That I find myself here, and feel like I've been forced here, in this exact same reincarnation, at least several times more than ONCE, clearly with suicide from a prior life as the issue.

Why in the flying absence of creation, would it be considered unconditional love, to force me here, again, and again, and again...? Or be consonant with the First Distortion, if I, the Human, want to willingly, having thought it over very much so since I was.  I don't know.  5?  That I might not want to let this life play all the way through simply because along the way, I realized that it is not what I want at all?

How's that work out for me?  Do we just call me suicidal and try to force me to continue living?  Do I need to explain in depth how I didn't just arrive at the lack of all desire for anything by my own choices, but got sick of seeing a 'unconditionally loving universe' act closer to indifferent and uncaring towards Life in 3D in general...

Wouldn't part of the whole be those who absolutely stopped and said, enough?

Where does one stop and say enough?  Can they?  Am I just forced to be here then, and when I give up, will I find myself absently wandering the Yellow Depression Place I've read so much in NDE's regarding suicide and sad souls?

What is wrong with this?  This isn't free will, or loving...  Higher Perspectives may disagree.

I think my Free Will alone should have the right to say their disagreement and term 'excuses', is an excuse for torture of sentient beings.  If they want to be tortured, let them.  But everyone else.  If it isn't actually consensual, how dare anyone go about telling everyone else it is and saying to them 'you wanted this' 'you choose this' 'you're responsible for this'.

At what point can I, as a portion of the Creation, stop, look, and scream in absolute vehement horror and absolute terror that I.  Somehow.  Would ever want this?  That I'm told I would.

That I as a Human Being, disagree, and if I'm the soul self as the human disagreeing.  The Free Will of the Soul is ultimately also ignored.  Life Contracts for reincarnation on a planet without memory...?

Sounds like the Creator enjoys torture.  It's not what I want, why can't I go somewhere else without basically being screwed overall?

Whats with this set up?

I do not agree with it.  If I don't resonate with it, and I drop it.  What happens then?

Life goes on?  And the continued horror continues endlessly as it will...?  For all of 3D...?

EDIT: And I'm sorry for my nihilism, I was nihilistic before I picked up the Law of One, being of the premise, All I know Truly Is I Know Nothing... I am so truly saddened and it is truly hurtful that the one thing I found to be..True and Real I have found some very disturbing issues in its outlook... If what I'm saying just doesn't make sense to you. Then I congratulate you. I wish I could understand it as a justifiable okay thing. But me, personally, I can't. So I don't know where that leaves me or what I'll do. I honestly don't want to commit suicide for any reason. I just find there are times where I not only looked around and felt something was wrong with Society, then Humanity, then the World. But now, Existence...I'm sorry guys. I sometimes wonder if I should just disappear into the wilderness and finish out life completely gone and away from everything but myself and nature...I have a horrific habit of finding inherent issues in everything that I come to love and care about. I used to think it was helpful when I used it to love people more. Now I see it has one issue. With faith I still can't reconcile indifference with love. Love does not fix indifference or change indifference... If anything, it also seems like Indifference holds more power in the long run.

I don't understand. Even though this is not the Density for Understanding, is that supposed to explain, reconcile, or make up for the unexplained terror that is dished out on 3D beings? Does love really allow for the justification?

[AnthroHeart]

I agree with you 100% VanAlioSaldo