Why I am not a vegan

[Lighthead]

I would assume that that means that the United States is not very evolved.

Edit: I'm from the US, by the way. So I can say that.

[anagogy]

[...]
Clyde Trepanier Transcripts: July 2nd, 1984 (L/L Research Library)

---

Well no offense to Clyde, Lighthead, but his channeling prowess hasn't been validated in my eyes by a significant body of material that I resonate with.  Carla, on the other hand, certainly has.  In spades.  But honestly, I've lost interest in this whole debacle.  We could debate until the end of the time, and come to no clear resolution.  Please, eat whatever diet you resonate with best, and I wish you, and all others, the best of luck on your spiritual journey.  

Whatever you focus on increases, by virtue of the law of attraction, whether it is war, racism, drug-abuse, murder, conspiracies, or animal abuse.  Seriously.  

You really do create your own reality. Many profess to understand that, but forget the more broad implications.  

All realities that exist were focused into being.  If you want to focus on those things in the name of "raising awareness", be my guest.  The universe will give you a *neverending* stream of them.  After a number of years, when you get tired, beat down, and burned out from wading through the neverending stream of negativity that the universe will merrily continue to deliver to you, ad infinitum, you are welcome to come over to my stream.  

There's free cookies there.  A LOT of them...    

I, for one, prefer to focus on well-being, and what makes my heart sing with joy, and what is going right with the world, where the world isn't looked at as a broken thing to fix, and allow the universe to deliver experiences from the never ending stream of joy.  That is how you heal the planet, by seeing it as complete, whole, and perfect in the first place.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite Ra quotes, that I feel is relevant:

One of the primal distortions of the Law of One is that of healing. Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One. The healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.

[Lighthead]

[...]
Clyde Trepanier Transcripts: July 2nd, 1984 (L/L Research Library)

---

Well no offense to Clyde, Lighthead, but his channeling prowess hasn't been validated in my eyes by a significant body of material that I resonate with.  Carla, on the other hand, certainly has.  In spades.  But honestly, I've lost interest in this whole debacle.  We could debate until the end of the time, and come to no clear resolution.  Please, eat whatever diet you resonate with best, and I wish you, and all others, the best of luck on your spiritual journey.  

Whatever you focus on increases, by virtue of the law of attraction, whether it is war, racism, drug-abuse, murder, conspiracies, or animal abuse.  Seriously.  

You really do create your own reality. Many profess to understand that, but forget the more broad implications.  

All realities that exist were focused into being.  If you want to focus on those things in the name of "raising awareness", be my guest.  The universe will give you a *neverending* stream of them.  After a number of years, when you get tired, beat down, and burned out from wading through the neverending stream of negativity that the universe will merrily continue to deliver to you, ad infinitum, you are welcome to come over to my stream.  

There's free cookies there.  A LOT of them...    

I, for one, prefer to focus on well-being, and what makes my heart sing with joy, and what is going right with the world, where the world isn't looked at as a broken thing to fix, and allow the universe to deliver experiences from the never ending stream of joy.  That is how you heal the planet, by seeing it as complete, whole, and perfect in the first place.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite Ra quotes, that I feel is relevant:

One of the primal distortions of the Law of One is that of healing. Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One. The healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.

Whatever, dude...

[Lighthead]

By the way, Ra has also said that we won't eat meat in 4D positive, but whatever floats your boat...

Edit: My bad. I got my densities confused. 5D is where we won't eat meat. But perhaps sooner. Ra didn't say.

[Billy]

I agree with Monica for the most part but I am conflicted as I don't know how to best approach and handle these issues without it becoming counterproductive and energy draining.  I am unable to engage in lengthy debates about such issues as I dislike arguments and they tire me quickly, but that may very well be my own shortcoming and weakness which I have to deal with.  I try to ask myself which is the best way to go about things so that the most benefit is achieved for all involved, but maybe sometimes conflict is necessary in order to move forward. 

[Lighthead]

I agree with Monica for the most part but I am conflicted as I don't know how to best approach and handle these issues without it becoming counterproductive and energy draining.  I am unable to engage in lengthy debates about such issues as I dislike arguments and they tire me quickly, but that may very well be my own shortcoming and weakness which I have to deal with.  I try to ask myself which is the best way to go about things so that the most benefit is achieved for all involved, but maybe sometimes conflict is necessary in order to move forward. 

I'd be surprised if conflict didn't tire everyone. It tires me out. But, on the other hand, I get energized by speaking out for what I feel to be right and true.

[AngelofDeath]

This isn't quite exactly on the topic, but it raises a question that I think parallels what we have been discussing.

http://higherperspectives.com/kinessa-johnson/

This woman, an army veteran, protects animals by killing humans (well, they operate without the intent to kill, but that doesn't mean it won't happen). Any thoughts as to what might be happening metaphysically there? I always find it interesting when things turn the other way and animal life is valued more than human life. I think all life should be held equal and sacred, for it is all the One, Shiva.

I totally agree that all life is equal and sacred.

Are you saying that an issue here in this discussion is valuing animals over humans? Or are you saying, as I have, that many humans value their lives over all other life? 

My take on the article (I didn't watch the video): I don't think violence is ever the answer. I don't know what the answer is. But if the world actually cared about suffering, whether human or animal, we could deal with poaching (it's a horrible trade) another way—we have a lot of technology. Regarding the woman and her team: I think they see themselves as fighting crime, rather than that they value animal life over human life. Cops who pursue perpetrators of violent crimes are (hopefully) just trying to stop more violence, rather than valuing the lives of victims over criminals.

I don't agree even with handling violent criminals this way. If I could change our justice system, I would invent phasers like the ones on Star Trek which had only the stun function, and I would transform prisons into places of healing where the imprisoned could learn they are worthy of love.

The poaching business is very cruel. They cut off parts of these animals even if they aren't dead and there is a market for things such as tables made of elephant legs, and ashtrays made of gorilla hands, and sex elixirs made from rhino horns, and on and on (I did a book a few years back on endangered species and had to do the research). That they are endangered species doesn't bother me as much as the suffering caused to each animal.

Metaphysically, violence is being perpetuated. The hamster wheel keeps turning. Not to be negative, but I don't see that things are so much better and we are in 4D. But I don't get out much and I don't watch TV or news, so perhaps I'm wrong. 

What are your thoughts on this and how it applies here?

Honestly, my thoughts are: there must be a reason there is so much violence manifesting through our planetary mind. I don't mean anything that is just tied to one individual's actions. I think our planet is going through an enourmous saga which has many players which have been playing this game for a long time. I think that many of the people involved with all of the major events happening across the planet are individuals whom have become invested in the story of this planet, a karmic investment if you will. I think there were things that happened a long time ago which are still now shadowing this planet and I believe these things having been forgotten is creating a sickness in our planetary mind.

For a long time I moved away from the sickness, believing health and wholeness was something other than sickness and illness. I am beginning to realize that the only way to truly heal a sickness is to go to its core, its source and to balance whatever is out of balance. Thus, you cannot ease sickness by running away from it, only by moving in to it and discovering its nature. Then through acceptance and understanding it can be worked with.

Thus, at this point in time, I have stopped running from my primal self. I stopped running from the brutal, violent self that I know exists within me. I stopped running from being an animal. I'm now, instead, learning about it. Learning about my body and its impulses instead of trying to control them along some path of expectation. If I am to reach 'enlightenment', it will not be through effort, but through relaxing in to my being. I am choosing to be who I am, regardless of who that might enrage.

I believe that the reason, or one of them at least, the violence is manifesting so much is because humans have become so in denial, so guilty about their primal natures that they have become suppressed in the planetary mind. Some see in themselves a more primal nature than others might but each must accept themselves the same. The violence has to come out, because we don't have a healthy outlook on it. It 'has no place' in the 'idealized' society and so it is completely shut out. Yet, nothing is ever truly gone, and that which is suppressed manifests as an enourmous planetary shadow.

Once we begin to accept and embrace this shadow, I believe there will be less violence because violence will no longer be suppressed in the planetary mind and need to manifest through unconscious (night side) actions. Instead, that energy will be used and transmuted through conscious (day side) actions. Violence is actually just a 'lower vibration' stemming from various feelings.

What do you think the 'higher vibrations' of those same energies would be?

(Also no, I don't think it's about people caring about animals more than humans, I was just commenting that I found that interesting that that sometimes appears to be the case.)

[spatial]

I think the notion of the “higher vibrations” of violent energies is an interesting one, certainly worthy of exploration especially considering violence, touches all of our lives.

[Monica]

Anyways, I found an interesting Q'uo channeling that offered some interesting perspectives.  

It is always enlightening to get a picture of how higher density beings view the whole issue

...

So according to Q'uo, it is not wrong to eat meat that is humanely slaughtered, and of course, if you like to eat vegan, nothing wrong with that either.  

Both paths are acceptable for an STO being, given the right conditions.

It would be more accurate to say: according to Carla's channeling.

ALL channeling has some degree of distortion. Carla's included. The Ra Material is, in my opinion, the least distorted of all, presumably because it was trance channeled, among other reasons. I personally consider the Ra Material to be the clearest message I've ever seen, bar none. 

When assessing any channeled work, it is wise to take into consideration that the person channeling has biases, just as everyone does, and those biases are sure to color the information channeled. Carla was a beautiful, bright light, and she was my friend. I've already talked about my love and admiration for her. Recognizing that she had biases doesn't take away from the value of her work. But it does help us understand how channeled information can get distorted.

Here is Pablisimo's explanation:

...in the Quo'te that Meerie provided, I find that I only resonate with the first line. The rest of it, not at all because it implies (to me) that all 3 options listed are equally valid when pursuing the STO path, where I feel that 1 is clearly superior, 1 somewhat helpful, and the other not at all. One of the things I appreciate about Qu'o, and all the L/L contacts, are the constant reminder to the seeker to take what resonates and discard the rest. That is excellent advice. And in the spirit of that advice, please consider the following:


I think we need to keep in mind the potential for distortion in consciously channeled messages. Unlike in the Ra contact, Qu'o is channeled with full waking consciousness and thus, in my view, there is far more potential for distortion due to bias of the group.

We may never settle the veg vs animal flesh issue in the context of the spiritual life on this thread. It is not a simple matter. However, what I believe is undeniable is that this topic arouses fierce passions in people. Discussing the consumption of animal flesh, especially in a spiritual context, causes intense reactions in many of us, on both sides of the issue. There is an ardor, a passion, an almost uncontrollable urge to speak one's mind and perspective on the issue that the topic provokes. It's all too easy to dismiss a vegetarian stating their cause as deluded and self-righteous...the same as one could dismiss one who chooses to eat animals as just guilty and deluded. I hope we can be more mature than that, but with this post I'm not stating a position. What I AM trying to establish most of all is that this topic is one that is hard to have an ambiguous view on -- the vast majority of us tend to have a strong bias one way or the other.

So it would seem to me that any area where passions are this strong would be a prime candidate for distortion in conscious channeling. How could the channel and the group NOT have a strong opinion on something like this? This de-tuning due to bias would degrade the quality of the channeled information. Let's examine the next part of that quote in this context:

....One is to seek out a kosher store [2] which sells meat, knowing that the priests of that religion have treated animals well and have slaughtered them in a sacred ritual which is taken most seriously by those priests....."

This is simply not true. Jewish rabbis generally do not raise these animals and so one cannot say that they "have treated animals well", nor do they normally slaughter them directly so one also cannot say it is done in "a sacred ritual which is taken most seriously by those priests". Kosher rules refer to how an animal is slaughtered and how the flesh is handled afterwards. There is no guarantee that an animal was treated well during their LIFETIME, any more than an organic label necessarily means that an animal was treated well. There are many common misconceptions about this topic, but the slaughter does not have to be done by a rabbi, it can be (and usually is) done by an agent that they approve of. There is no sacred blessing that goes on during the ceremony. The ritual is basically that a sharp knife is used to cut the throat of the animal and it is allowed to bleed to death through the neck. The animal is not stunned beforehand.

So you can raise an animal in typical, terrible, agri-business factory farm conditions, and as long as an approved agent slashes their neck with a sharp knife and allows the animal to bleed to death, it's Kosher. Of course, there are also post-slaughter handling rules that are very strict involving inspection of the carcass and sanitation, but in no way does purchasing Kosher meat tell the seeker anything about how the animal was treated.

And in regards to the slaughter method, proponents of this approach maintain that it is a more humane way to kill the animal, that they lose consciousness within a few seconds. There is a fierce debate on this topic as opponents of the practice say that stunning the animal first would be more humane and that animals killed in the Kosher fashion often survive for several minutes in agony. It's far from settled, but you can read more about Kosher topics and watch graphic videos of this method of slaughter here:

http://www.peta.org/features/kosher-vegetarian.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZnQmc3U9I

-----------

Of course Qu'o would know all of this about animal flesh killed in the Kosher fashion, and I'm sure Carla didn't make up the channeled message. What I'd like to offer for consideration is that perhaps because of her own personal bias that eating animal flesh is acceptable, and her own personal beliefs that Kosher or "biodynamic" animal flesh is more acceptable, that some de-tuning occurred in this contact. That's the only explanation I have for why something so factually inaccurate would have made it into a Qu'o transcript. It's also why I suspect the topic was not explored in any depth in the Ra material. Strong bias detunes contact.

That said, let's not judge the channel, nor anyone else as we debate this topic further, respectfully and with care. We all have our own biases, myself included, and we are all struggling to find balance and do what's right in the confusing phase of existence we find ourselves in. None of us has all the answers and should remember to be humble and kind to our other-selves as we discuss this issue. However, I think we owe it to ourselves to use our own discernment when evaluating channeled information, even when the source is well known and with established purity. Discernment.

Love to all

Original post: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...1#pid23111

[Lighthead]

I wish I could like the post right before this one ( ^^^^^^^) more than once. Monica's post; the one up there.

[Diana]

I believe that the reason, or one of them at least, the violence is manifesting so much is because humans have become so in denial, so guilty about their primal natures that they have become suppressed in the planetary mind. Some see in themselves a more primal nature than others might but each must accept themselves the same. The violence has to come out, because we don't have a healthy outlook on it. It 'has no place' in the 'idealized' society and so it is completely shut out. Yet, nothing is ever truly gone, and that which is suppressed manifests as an enourmous planetary shadow.

Once we begin to accept and embrace this shadow, I believe there will be less violence because violence will no longer be suppressed in the planetary mind and need to manifest through unconscious (night side) actions. Instead, that energy will be used and transmuted through conscious (day side) actions. Violence is actually just a 'lower vibration' stemming from various feelings.

What do you think the 'higher vibrations' of those same energies would be?

(Also no, I don't think it's about people caring about animals more than humans, I was just commenting that I found that interesting that that sometimes appears to be the case.)

I agree that embracing the shadow is important. 

We can embrace something such as aggression. Seth explained that there is nothing wrong with aggression, and in fact it is necessary. He gave birth as an example. To be born into 3D requires aggression, an aggressive thrust into this reality. But he said that aggression is not the same as violence. I think aggression, when suppressed and judged as being "wrong," or when a person hides from something they can't face, can manifest as violence and anger.

We are animals in physiology. We have bigger brains, and a neocortex, but we still operate in part from an instinctive/learned standpoint. According to some esoteric teachings, we have the lower mind and higher mind(s). Our basic 3D human mind protects us here, because it knows how to deal with this place, just as animals' brains know how to deal with their existence (they know to run from a predator; they may not know how to run from a car effectively because the experience hasn't evolved long enough perhaps). According to these teachings, in order to operate from the higher mind, we have to overcome the ego—not kill it, but put it in its place. As long as we are here, the ego has a function. It would be analogous to Echart Tolle's description of being in the now—to use time to remind you when you have an have appointments for example, but then let it go and merge with the now again. Aggression might also be seen as the impetus needed to break (change) inertia.

So the higher vibration of violence is perhaps non-harmful aggression. In birth, there may be harm, but that is not from the aggression needed to accomplish the transformation. I think there would be other things that caused harm (resistance, incompetent medical staff, emotions governing the mother, karmic influences).

I think the higher forms of "negative" behaviors would be to cause no harm to others (including self) while using the pure energy of the behavior, as Seth suggests. Which is why the STS path can only go so far—it must evolve to one of no harm.

[DarkOne]

Everything one eats is themselves. Energy is meant to return to the self, the only self there is.

[Monica]

Have you ever burned yourself on a hot stove or accidentally stuck your finger in boiling water? Do you remember what it felt like for just 1 second?

I guess it doesn't matter since they are only 2D.

[AnthroHeart]

Even a person can't exactly shut off all pain. Talk to someone with fibromyalgia. It is only controlled with pain meds.

[Billy]

Have you ever burned yourself on a hot stove or accidentally stuck your finger in boiling water? Do you remember what it felt like for just 1 second?

I guess it doesn't matter since they are only 2D.

So sad and disturbing that image and knowledge.

[Monica]

Well, after effectively, thoroughly and completely neutralizing the argument given in the OP, imagine my chagrin when I discovered...


THIS!!!

UH OH!!!

Just when I thought I had it all wrapped up, someone showed me not 1, not 2, not 3, but 14 - yes a whopping 14!!! reasons to NOT go vegan!!

I want to officially apologize to everyone. I was wrong. I can't refute any of these.

14 Reasons You Should NOT Go Vegan

[AnthroHeart]

I heard soy can destroy your thyroid. My mom can't take it because she has a diseased thyroid.

[Monica]

I heard soy can destroy your thyroid. My mom can't take it because she has a diseased thyroid.

Only isolated soy protein does that.

The Asians have been eating fermented soy for thousands of years, and their thyroids seem to be fine.

Unfermented soy, isolated soy protein (highly processed) and any GMO soy are bad.

Non-GMO, fermented soy (tempeh, miso, tamari. natto) and non-GMO tofu are healthy (unless the person is allergic to soy altogether).

[Lighthead]

Well, after effectively, thoroughly and completely neutralizing the argument given in the OP, imagine my chagrin when I discovered...


THIS!!!

UH OH!!!

Just when I thought I had it all wrapped up, someone showed me not 1, not 2, not 3, but 14 - yes a whopping 14!!! reasons to NOT go vegan!!

I want to officially apologize to everyone. I was wrong. I can't refute any of these.  

14 Reasons You Should NOT Go Vegan

That website is a life-saver! I bookmarked that website, happycow.net that was referenced in the article. Very cool.

[Monica]

That website is a life-saver! I bookmarked that website, happycow.net that was referenced in the article. Very cool.

Good! I hope you find it helpful! BE CAREFUL! Going vegan is DANGEROUS! I realize that now. I'm glad you have that guide to help you avoid those 14 pitfalls.

[Lighthead]

That website is a life-saver! I bookmarked that website, happycow.net that was referenced in the article. Very cool.

Good! I hope you find it helpful! BE CAREFUL! Going vegan is DANGEROUS! I realize that now.    I'm glad you have that guide to help you avoid those 14 pitfalls.

Haha. Good one.

[Monica]

The Top 12 Excuses People Give For Not Going Vegan

[Minyatur]

The Top 12 Excuses People Give For Not Going Vegan

Never thought of any of those reasons. Except the plant thing, plants are cool and number 5. But I still doubt an individual buying from different sources having an impact on his own and I've never been into group things.

[Monica]

The Top 12 Excuses People Give For Not Going Vegan

Never thought of any of those reasons. Except the plant thing, plants are cool and number 5. But I still doubt an individual buying from different sources having an impact on his own and I've never been into group things.

Actually, the top reasons I've observed here are: Carla eats meat, Ra told Carla to eat meat, Ra didn't say not to eat meat, animals are 2D just like plants, plants have feelings too, and...the winner! I like bacon!

“I'd estimate that about 10 to 12 hogs an hour go into the scalding tank conscious. These hogs get up to the scalding tank, hit the water and start screaming and kicking. Sometimes they thrash so much they kick water out of the tank… Sooner or later they drown. There’s a rotating arm that pushes them under, no chance for them to get out. I’m not sure if they burn to death before they drown, but it takes them a couple of minutes to stop thrashing.”

Slaughterhouse worker - from the book Slaughterhouse by Gail Eisnitz.

[Minyatur]

The Top 12 Excuses People Give For Not Going Vegan

Never thought of any of those reasons. Except the plant thing, plants are cool and number 5. But I still doubt an individual buying from different sources having an impact on his own and I've never been into group things.

Actually, the top reasons I've observed here are: Carla eats meat, Ra told Carla to eat meat, Ra didn't say not to eat meat, animals are 2D just like plants, plants have feelings too, and...the winner! I like bacon!

“I'd estimate that about 10 to 12 hogs an hour go into the scalding tank conscious. These hogs get up to the scalding tank, hit the water and start screaming and kicking. Sometimes they thrash so much they kick water out of the tank… Sooner or later they drown. There’s a rotating arm that pushes them under, no chance for them to get out. I’m not sure if they burn to death before they drown, but it takes them a couple of minutes to stop thrashing.”

Slaughterhouse worker - from the book Slaughterhouse by Gail Eisnitz.

The only "real" excuse would be insensibility toward other-selves.

I am insensible to do it in such an indirect manner but I would not kill an animal myself to feed myself. I also do not think it taints my soul any more than it already is tainted. To be sensible to this, I'd have to balance myself quite a lot in a positive manner.

In term of polarity I am very passive, but I won't deny that it is indifference as I chose to walk the middle path. I have positive/negative leanings never going far any way.

Things may change with some time though, but I am well aware that this Universe can be a truly sad place. Not just this earth.

I do think your passion is commendable from someone who is very passionless.

Edit :

In term of polarity I actually think I've been pulled in many directions by many entities that have opposite expectations of me and I ended up not giving a f*** anymore. There's a war and I'm not partaking in it, just watching it unfold. At least for now... (I do think you were one of the entities pulling me in a direction)

[Monica]

The only "real" excuse would be insensibility toward other-selves.

I am insensible to do it in such an indirect manner but I would not kill an animal myself to feed myself. I also do not think it taints my soul any more than it already is tainted. To be sensible to this, I'd have to balance myself quite a lot in a positive manner.

In term of polarity I am very passive, but I won't deny that it is indifference as I chose to walk the middle path. I have positive/negative leanings never going far any way.

Things may change with some time though, but I am well aware that this Universe can be a truly sad place. Not just this earth.

I do think your passion is commendable from someone who is very passionless.

Edit :

In term of polarity I actually think I've been pulled in many directions by many entities that have opposite expectations of me and I ended up not giving a f*** anymore. There's a war and I'm not partaking in it, just watching it unfold. At least for now... (I do think you were one of the entities pulling me in a direction)

Interesting. Thank you for sharing!

...

[Monica]

  VeganSlaughterhouse.jpg (Size: 60.71 KB / Downloads: 18)

[Monica]

Ok I surrender. You are right. Vegans are wrong. The path of veganism inevitably leads to malnutrition.

Seeing these pics and stories of sickly, scrawny, malnourished vegans made me see the light. Thanks everyone for your patience. It took me awhile but I get it now. I don't want to end up like these people!

Malnourished Vegans

For those who don't have facebook:

Why You Can't Build Muscles on a Vegan Diet | What do vegans look like?

[Minyatur]

Ok I surrender. You are right. Vegans are wrong. The path of veganism inevitably leads to malnutrition.

Seeing these pics and stories of sickly, scrawny, malnourished vegans made me see the light. Thanks everyone for your patience. It took me awhile but I get it now. I don't want to end up like these people!

Malnourished Vegans

For those who don't have facebook:

Why You Can't Build Muscles on a Vegan Diet | What do vegans look like?

Must have been hard to admit openly your wrongs, but it is an important step on the ever on-going path of growth.

I personally should be malnourished while I do eat meat. But I do give praise to the One Infinite Creator for the glorious taste of what I eat and so far my body seems to be doing quite well.

[Monica]

Must have been hard to admit openly your wrongs, but it is an important step on the ever on-going path of growth.

I personally should be malnourished while I do eat meat. But I do give praise to the One Infinite Creator for the glorious taste of what I eat and so far my body seems to be doing quite well.

You didn't even look at those pics of malnourished vegans.