Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

[Monica]

Even if this is so, do you think beings in higher realms would DO what we do here to animals, each other? Do you think they would participate in cruelty just because, oh everything is harmonious? This is the point for goodness sake. Everything may be as it should be as the New Agers say, but that is a different concept than participation in 3D madness and cruelty. 

You just nailed it. That is the key word: Participate

[Minyatur]

Densities mean nothing

Right. So Ra talked about densities because...they were trying to trick us to see how gullible we are? ...or maybe they were really evil and delighted in giving us false information? ...or maybe they were just bored?

Ra just like anything else gets probably bored of simply stating that all is one.

Reality exists for us to learn from it, not for us to to make it alike how we currently are.

Our actions and choices mean nothing? Free will is useless?

1. Ra also stated that all of this is just an illusion, that there was no polarity, no separation, no disharmony, just perfect unity. That we all are just One delluding itself into thinking there's actually many parties having a role in what's happening.


2. It is useful toward your growth of awareness and for other-yous which it can impact. Happens what needs to happen. Even if you don't eat meat, the nature of reality is that it exists so that you can be confronted to it. I give so little care about this that I could very well be on a vegetarian planet not eating meat whereas your need to fight this aspect of creation makes it necessary to exist within your path.

[Diana]

 I consume meat simply because the "blood sacrifice" is already made and I don't think there is value in me abstaining from doing it. My sole consumption won't impact the market so whether I consume meat or not, the same amount of sufferings will occur. 

This is where I think you are woefully deluding yourself. You are not exempt from the whole. Your part is not somehow different from the other parts. As I said before, 1+1+1+1+1....= whatever the total is. You cannot escape the math. You are not special; your participation matters just as much as the next person. Conversely, if no one participated, there would be no demand for it and it would cease to continue. Your "1" matters there just as much.

[Minyatur]

 I consume meat simply because the "blood sacrifice" is already made and I don't think there is value in me abstaining from doing it. My sole consumption won't impact the market so whether I consume meat or not, the same amount of sufferings will occur. 

This is where I think you are woefully deluding yourself. You are not exempt from the whole. Your part is not somehow different from the other parts. As I said before, 1+1+1+1+1....= whatever the total is. You cannot escape the math. You are not special; your participation matters just as much as the next person. Conversely, if no one participated, there would be no demand for it and it would cease to continue. Your "1" matters there just as much.

I do not think they calculate things up to one very irregular consumer. I also said I think not it is wrong in itself and that it is a needed experience of manyness which is why I don't mind participing in it. Out of the participation thing, I would not create this reality solely to eat meat.

It is part of my negative polarity just as I have many things which are part of my positive polarity. This world is not just one of them, this world is both polarities.

[Diana]

I do not think they calculate things up to one very irregular consumer. I also said I think not it is wrong in itself and that it is a needed experience of manyness which is why I don't mind participing in it. Out of the participation thing, I would not create this reality solely to eat meat.

It is part of my negative polarity just as I have many things which are part of my positive polarity. This world is not just one of them, this world is both polarities.

Who do you mean by "they"? Do you mean the animal farming industry or the grocery stores? That's not what I mean. I mean taking responsibility for your own actions.

"Experiencing the manyness" is a different concept than creating. Do you care what you create?

[Monica]

We are being from higher realms, doing what we do here.

It's glamorous to think so, isn't it?

my biggest problem is when a blanket statement that all meat and dairy consumption is behaving in a consciously unloving manner.

I agree. Good thing no one has done that, at least not here in this forum.

Eating is so socially ingrained in us, and with so many people a mealtime is synonymous with family. It is no secret that today, for one to be completely vegan, they have to abstain from many of the normal eating celebrations/holidays/gathering we have with our family. This can cause unrest in the family unit. What do you mean, mom can't cook you her favorite meatloaf anymore? And grandma spent all day slaving over this roasted Thanksgiving turkey, you aren't even going to have a bite?

If Grandma slaved away all day cooking a turkey, with the expectation that her grandson, Johnny, will eat it, that's Johnny's fault for not telling her ahead of time that he doesn't eat turkeys. These days, many people are on 'special diets' and unless Grandma has been living under a rock, she will understand this and not take it personally. There's a very simple solution: Johnny calls Grandma a week before Thanksgiving, and simply tells her that he's on a special diet and will eat all the side dishes but not the turkey. Maybe he's even allergic to milk and eggs, if he thinks Grandma can understand that better. There. Not so hard.

To say people are acting unconsciously loving when they don't have the resolve to stand up to familial pressures about diet is a tough call to make.

Saying "I agree that eating animals is cruel and unnecessary and I'm working on making compassionate choices, and most of the time I do, but occasionally I fall short, because I have a weakness when my Uncle Jimmy ridicules me, and sometimes it's just easier to eat it than to explain myself"

...is very different from:

"How dare you suggest that eating pigs is cruel! But...but...but...I like bacon!"

It doesn't help that we are so far removed from the slaughter and we receive our meat either pre-cooked and presented beautifully or in neat bloodless packages weighed out by the ounce at the grocery store, with cute cut names on the package. Advertising, too, is intense, and if I'm starving sometimes even I can't deny how delicious something can look in an artfully crafted advertisement.

Yeah, it can be hard, no question about that. Cheese is so yummy and pizza smells so good. Living on this planet sometimes sucks, doesn't it?

I just wish the blanket statements would go away and we could accept that there are gray areas in this debate.

Gosh, there have been soooooo many shades of grey presented, we have a wide spectrum of color! Maybe you missed this?

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...7#pid14197

Whether someone is consciously aware that their choices are causing cruelty is a grey area.

Whether the meat-dairy industry causes torture and death to billions of innocent, sentient beings isn't.

I saw in the "spiritual diet" thread that no meat, no eggs, no dairy was spiritual. But if I had a cow, and a small flock of hens, who I cared for and loved daily, and I consumed some of their extra eggs/milk, I think this is pure spiritual love of the Creator in action. It's just as, if not more, spiritual as a tending a garden and harvesting its fruits. I think even if people source their eggs/dairy from very small production, local farms, that it can be a positive and benevolent act.

I agree. Key word here being 'extra.'

That is never the case with eggs and dairy purchased from a store or even a farmer's market.

The only reason people even bother to argue with you, Monica, is that there is a very obvious blockage in one who refuses so strongly to accept our planet in the moment. We all have this blockage from time to time, but you consistently act upon this same lack-of-acceptance here on these forums, and don't really engage anywhere else, so we just get stuck with the one Monica. And everyone wants to help her in their own way.

LOL!

We are all co-creators, we chose to be here, this is a collective reality. Yes, factory farming is abhorrent, and needs to stop ASAP, but this is the reality we are in, and before we can do anything to truly change it, we must first accept it and love it. That's like rule #1. You must first crystallize the heart chakra before you can start utilizing the full power of the throat chakra.

Agreed!

And what is #2?

QUIT DEFENDING IT AND PARTICIPATING IN IT!

[Monica]

1. Ra also stated that all of this is just an illusion, that there was no polarity, no separation, no disharmony, just perfect unity. That we all are just One delluding itself into thinking there's actually many parties having a role in what's happening.

Ra ALSO stated that there are densities, and polarity, and free will, and in fact went to great lengths to elaborate on these concepts, as well as explaining their attributes.

2. It is useful toward your growth of awareness and for other-yous which it can impact. Happens what needs to happen. Even if you don't eat meat, the nature of reality is that it exists so that you can be confronted to it. I give so little care about this that I could very well be on a vegetarian planet not eating meat whereas your need to fight this aspect of creation makes it necessary to exist within your path.

Not caring about the suffering of other entities isn't exactly something to brag about. In a court of law they call that 'callous indifference' and there are actually penalties for it.

[AnthroHeart]

My heart says yes but my brain says no to vegetarian.

[Minyatur]

I do not think they calculate things up to one very irregular consumer. I also said I think not it is wrong in itself and that it is a needed experience of manyness which is why I don't mind participing in it. Out of the participation thing, I would not create this reality solely to eat meat.

It is part of my negative polarity just as I have many things which are part of my positive polarity. This world is not just one of them, this world is both polarities.

Who do you mean by "they"? Do you mean the animal farming industry or the grocery stores? That's not what I mean. I mean taking responsibility for your own actions.

"Experiencing the manyness" is a different concept than creating. Do you care what you create?

I do take responsability for my actions, I simply perceive it not as you do or would wish me to. 

I also have no goal of polarizing positively, my polarity is mostly postive by nature without forcing it althought it also has negative parts like meat eating. I do not think any polarity is above the other nor would I want to partake in a polarity war althought I probably did partake in such a thing for a long time.

I think this Octave as a whole is love and am working my awareness of it, especially in what seems not like love.

[Minyatur]

Ra ALSO stated that there are densities, and polarity, and free will, and in fact went to great lengths to elaborate on these concepts, as well as explaining their attributes. 

Yeah I do like how paradoxal existence is in itself.

Not caring about the suffering of other entities isn't exactly something to brag about. In a court of law they call that 'callous indifference' and there are actually penalties for it.

You do care about human laws?

From my perspective you also do care only about what you care just as every single entity on this sphere is solely caring about what it's personally caring. That's kind of how separateness is, there's a lot of room to be subjective in nearly-infinite ways, possibly infinite ways.

[Monica]

althought it also has negative parts like meat eating.

Be careful what you say! I caught all sorts of flack for daring to suggest that eating meat might be negative!!!

[Minyatur]

althought it also has negative parts like meat eating.

Be careful what you say! I caught all sorts of flack for daring to suggest that eating meat might be negative!!!

My whole point is not that meat eating is a positive thing. It's that negative and positive things are equally important.

You should probably spend some time in a negative time/space to broaden your perspective of this Universe.

[Diana]

Eating is so socially ingrained in us, and with so many people a mealtime is synonymous with family. It is no secret that today, for one to be completely vegan, they have to abstain from many of the normal eating celebrations/holidays/gathering we have with our family. This can cause unrest in the family unit. What do you mean, mom can't cook you her favorite meatloaf anymore? And grandma spent all day slaving over this roasted Thanksgiving turkey, you aren't even going to have a bite?

I simply can't fathom this attitude which has been expressed by so many here. Why?

1. I have been vegetarian since 1993 and have NEVER had this problem. Everyone understands though there is a lot of teasing about eating baby seals etc. (but so what?!). And I do not just associate with intelligent, progressive people. 

2. By not standing in your own integrity, how is that serving anyone at all? Even poor ole grandma. It's been my experience that when I stand in my own integrity people actually like it. It's restful. Most people are lying to themselves and others all the time whether they know it or not. Is it better to lie and temporally avoid a confrontation? If I were to stand in my integrity AND judge those at Thanksgiving who are not following my example—that would cause harm, which is exactly why I don't eat the turkey in the first place. But to simply say no thank you to the meat and eat whatever you can is fine. There have been times I could only eat the bread or something. I still did so with ceremony and thanks of the gathering itself.

3. How on earth can anyone really tell me (assuming we are dealing with conscious, aware people) that grandma's feelings about her meal trump the vast suffering of meat animals to the point that a person with convictions about not eating meat would cave to save grandma's little hurt feelings? Sorry for the sarcasm, but it just slays me that anyone can believe this is valid. And let's not underestimate grandma, maybe she's not so self-centered and melodramatic as we want to think. Maybe she is capable of pouting a little but then realizing her granddaughter or grandson is someone who stands up for their decisions and convictions no matter how much familial pressure is applied.

4. Eating grandma's turkey, when one's convictions are otherwise, is the coward's way out. It would be better to admit this than pretend (consciously or not) that you are doing it for the family. Tell the truth to your family. It's better for everyone and everything. Not because what you think is good for you is right, but because truth matters (for so many reasons). 

[Minyatur]

If the Turkey is cooked and on the table. In whether you eat from it or not, have you created anything? Caused anything? Or is a portion of the Turkey simply gonna end up in the thrash? Other than resisting the desires of the poor little 1D fella which wished to be consumed without rotting away?

[Monica]

If the Turkey is cooked and on the table. In whether you eat from it or not, have you created anything? Caused anything? Or is a portion of the Turkey simply gonna end up in the thrash? Other than resisting the desires of the poor little 1D fella which wished to be consumed without rotting away?

That particular turkey will surely get eaten by others, in the form of leftovers. Maybe some will end up being fed to the dogs. But by making a stand, we raise awareness, and that awareness ripples out, and thus we help reduce the number of turkeys killed over time. Simple cause and effect. Plus, we help create a reality in which cruelty is no longer manifest. Choices count.

[Minyatur]

If the Turkey is cooked and on the table. In whether you eat from it or not, have you created anything? Caused anything? Or is a portion of the Turkey simply gonna end up in the thrash? Other than resisting the desires of the poor little 1D fella which wished to be consumed without rotting away?

That particular turkey will surely get eaten by others, in the form of leftovers. Maybe some will end up being fed to the dogs. But by making a stand, we raise awareness, and that awareness ripples out, and thus we help reduce the number of turkeys killed over time. Simple cause and effect. Plus, we help create a reality in which cruelty is no longer manifest. Choices count.

Yet in desiring to have this darkness to transmute, you also create this reality where it was manifested in the first place. Choices indeed do count and the cause and effect goes more deeply than what is apparent.

How could there even be light, if there was no darkness to make the light look brightful.

[Monica]

Yet in desiring to have this darkness to transmute, you also create this reality where it was manifested in the first place. Choices indeed do count and the cause and effect goes more deeply than what is apparent.

How could there even be light, if there was no darkness to make the light look brightful.

That doesn't justify making the choice to support cruelty, in the here and now.

[AnthroHeart]

If the Turkey is cooked and on the table. In whether you eat from it or not, have you created anything? Caused anything? Or is a portion of the Turkey simply gonna end up in the thrash? Other than resisting the desires of the poor little 1D fella which wished to be consumed without rotting away?

That particular turkey will surely get eaten by others, in the form of leftovers. Maybe some will end up being fed to the dogs. But by making a stand, we raise awareness, and that awareness ripples out, and thus we help reduce the number of turkeys killed over time. Simple cause and effect. Plus, we help create a reality in which cruelty is no longer manifest. Choices count.

Since when is feeding the dogs meat a bad thing? I give my dogs canned meat all the time. It's the only way one of them will take their meds.
The other is a wolfdog and needs the additional protein.

[Monica]

Since when is feeding the dogs meat a bad thing? I give my dogs canned meat all the time. It's the only way one of them will take their meds.
The other is a wolfdog and needs the additional protein.

It didn't say it was. Dogs and cats are carnivorous. It is a dilemma, though, being that they can no longer hunt for themselves in the wild, so we must kill other animals to feed them.

They can, however, be omnivores, vegetarians, or even vegans. Many are doing this successfully.

Obligate Carnivore

..

[AnthroHeart]

Do fake meats really substitute for the real thing? Protein and B vitamins and all?

[Monica]

Do fake meats really substitute for the real thing? Protein and B vitamins and all?

They're convenient when transitioning, but whole foods (rice, beans, potatoes, veggies, etc.) are healthier. But yes, a well-rounded vegan diet absolutely does supply all the needed nutrients, even for dogs and cats. Humans need to supplement B12, only because we wash our veggies and no longer eat dirt, and dogs and cats need to supplement taurine, only because taurine is destroyed when food is cooked. (Even meat-based dog and cat foods have taurine added.)

[Minyatur]

Yet in desiring to have this darkness to transmute, you also create this reality where it was manifested in the first place. Choices indeed do count and the cause and effect goes more deeply than what is apparent.

How could there even be light, if there was no darkness to make the light look brightful.

That doesn't justify making the choice to support cruelty, in the here and now.

What justifies it, is that it a needed experience and we are simply playing different roles. I'm just not feeling about it like you do feel about it. Are you more righteous because you have feelings I have not? Maybe there's other areas where I'm more caring..

To me you seem like an entity that came from a very peace and love kind of world whereas I get the feeling I've went through a much darker path in which I've done and been done many worse things than this. And both of these things are part of who we are, just like they are part of the Whole. If we all thinked alike, manyness would be boring.

Yes it does suck as a kind of experience, but it's part of what the entity will become and is justified as such. Unless you do want to belittle experiences which are not yours.

[Monica]

Unless you do want to belittle experiences which are not yours.

You say eating meat is negative, then you say that I'm 'belittling' others' experiences for doing exactly the same thing you just did, which is say it's negative???

[Minyatur]

Unless you do want to belittle experiences which are not yours.

You say eating meat is negative, then you say that I'm 'belittling' others' experiences for doing exactly the same thing you just did, which is say it's negative???

I don't think we perceive the same connotation of the word "negative" in the given context. As I said elsewhere, the "negative" term is probably something "positive" entities came up with.

It's more about the fact that you think it should not be, as such betlittling it because it was not how you went through this reality.

[Monica]

I don't think we perceive the same connotation of the word "negative" in the given context. As I said elsewhere, the "negative" term is probably something "positive" entities came up with.

It's more about the fact that you think it should not be, as such betlittling it because it was not how you went through this reality.

No, you are mistaken, and probably misunderstanding because you don't agree with the philosophy from Ra to begin with. This is a Law of One discussion forum. You have repeatedly stated that you disagree with the concepts taught by Ra, so I wonder why you're even here in the first place. You seem to be insistent on teaching us Law of One students that Ra was wrong. Well, I'm not interested in hearing all your reasons why Law of One concepts are invalid. I'm interested in discussing topics from a Law of One perspective. My views are based on my understanding of the Law of One.

[Minyatur]

I don't think we perceive the same connotation of the word "negative" in the given context. As I said elsewhere, the "negative" term is probably something "positive" entities came up with.

It's more about the fact that you think it should not be, as such betlittling it because it was not how you went through this reality.

No, you are mistaken, and probably misunderstanding because you don't agree with the philosophy from Ra to begin with. This is a Law of One discussion forum. You have repeatedly stated that you disagree with the concepts taught by Ra, so I wonder why you're even here in the first place. You seem to be insistent on teaching us Law of One students that Ra was wrong. Well, I'm not interested in hearing all your reasons why Law of One concepts are invalid. I'm interested in discussing topics from a Law of One perspective. My views are based on my understanding of the Law of One.

I've never said Ra was wrong, Ra states the Law of One but also his own personal bias. I've also told you that you are picking passages that work your way and which are usually the ones which are not directly about Oneness. Oneness is the ultimate lesson toward which all distortions or sub-lessons are working toward.

The Law of One is that which has no polarity. Polarities exist only in the lack of awareness of unity that is ever present. Ealier in this thread I've quoted many passages that fully support all I've said. The only thing I can have against Ra is that he understand not fully the negative path because it was not part of his experiences so much. That is his work in progress toward his own evolution.

Whatever you say about meat eating, does not Ra say himself that there are no mistakes? How could I be making mistakes from Ra's perspective?

I've also quoted Ra saying that one should not dissuade others from fufilling their desires which is exactly what you are doing with this thread. You can disagree with him but then you won't be his student will you?

Maybe you want me to requote again all these passages? Then you won't say I disagree with the Law of One philosophy when I do not.

[Monica]

I've never said Ra was wrong, Ra states the Law of One but also his own personal bias. I've also told you that you are picking passages that work your way and which are usually the ones which are not directly about Oneness. Oneness is the ultimate lesson toward which all distortions or sub-lessons are working toward.

Oneness includes ALL, including densities, polarity, free will, etc. To ignore the distortions is, in itself, a distortion.

My perception is that it's you who are cherry-picking and ignoring core concepts. Plus, the very fact that you would speak of Ra as having a 'personal bias' shows a rather odd perception of who Ra is and what the Ra Material is all about.

I prefer to no longer discuss with you. I have no interest in more going in circles, which is what we've been doing for awhile. Blessings to you.

[Minyatur]

I'm cherry picking higher lessons about unity while you are cherry picking lower lessons about only one of the two paths. The Law of One is of course all of it, but it includes just as much the negative lessons which are blended with the positive ones.

If you are fed up, fair enough I shall stop.

[Monica]

I'm cherry picking higher lessons about unity while you are cherry picking lower lessons about only one of the two paths. The Law of One is of course all of it, but it includes just as much the negative lessons which are blended with the positive ones.

If you are fed up, fair enough I shall stop.

Oh gag. Sorry, but I find it comical for someone to purport to understand higher concepts, while continuing to miss the basic ones. No, it doesn't, not at all times, and to say that it does, misses the whole point about polarity.

Yes, I am, so yes, how about we both stop.

[Minyatur]

I am a student of the Law of One, not of the positive path. That's where our disagreement is. I joined because you said you didn't understand those who didn't agree with you, it seems I have failed to highlight this understanding of others.

All is well.