Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

[Diana]

This thread is all about point of view. Would anyone be interested in discussing higher 2D consciousness, from the point of view of the entities, rather than from the point of view of those who objectify them as mere 'lower' beings or things to be used/killed as we wish?

Getting back on-topic, they are mind-body complexes. What do we know about their minds? Their thoughts? Their ability to learn? Their ability to feel emotions? What does this tell us about their consciousness?

...

That's a great poem by Shel Silverstein. I remember the first time I read The Giving Tree. I was in a book store and I bawled my eyes out.

It is always a difficult time for me at Thanksgiving thinking of how many turkeys are slaughtered. It's not that I spend my days depressed over things like this. I make the effort every day to embrace and project better feelings than that. But sometimes it is challenging.

I still use the visualization Icaro came up with for the horses I see when I'm on the road. (There are so many horses kept where I live, forced to exist in bleak circumstances.)

It is very obvious to me, and I would think to anyone who would actually look, that though animals operate most of the time from instinct, they have higher emotions too. I see this even in javelina, who don't seem as "bright" as the deer who visit my property. 

When observing the same animals over a time, you will see different personalities. This is most evident in the deer herd I am friends with. They all have names and are all very different. One of them, Sweetie, has shown up at my property three times, out of the blue and at a time when the deer herd is elsewhere for months, when I was very upset and down. Her presence was like an angel showing up. She wasn't hungry those times so it wasn't for food. I would walk into the kitchen and see her looking in through the French window. So I have a notion that animals can be very connected to humans, even wild animals, and even respond to that connection in some telepathic way.

Certainly our pets have feelings such as devotion, love, hurt feelings, etc. If they do, then don't all animals have that potential? Ra says they do because of interaction with us. But Ra also says it can develop on its own though it takes longer. 

I can also say that I feel a connection to plants I tend. It feels different to me though, than the connection I have to the animals. The lives of plants are very different than ours, so perhaps this why it is more difficult to apprehend their consciousness in a clear way. 

[outerheaven]

Wonderful post, Diana.

Everyone should read The Secret Life of Plants. Should've been required reading in high school or college instead of one of the thousands of war novels we read and re-read and re-re-read, but hey whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants

I'd say it's amazing this book came out in '73 and the common man isn't aware of these experiments and studies that go a long way to proving that plants do indeed have consciousness ... but ... in order for our society to function as it does, it's kind of imperative that we don't realize this stuff. ;P

I love plants.

[Diana]

Wonderful post, Diana.

Everyone should read The Secret Life of Plants. Should've been required reading in high school or college instead of one of the thousands of war novels we read and re-read and re-re-read, but hey whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants

I'd say it's amazing this book came out in '73 and the common man isn't aware of these experiments and studies that go a long way to proving that plants do indeed have consciousness ... but ... in order for our society to function as it does, it's kind of imperative that we don't realize this stuff. ;P

I love plants.

My boyfriend loves plants too. He has a very deep connection with them. I, personally, think everything has consciousness, even inanimate objects. I like string theory, and if everything is made up of vibrating strings, then there is nothing that isn't made of the same set of subatomic units (which could be called intelligent infinity—in the particle function as opposed to the wave).

I so agree with what is read in school. I remember reading Hiroshima in 8th grade. It was so traumatizing. Our sick education system is worthy of a thread by itself. 

[sunnysideup]

Wonderful post, Diana.

Everyone should read The Secret Life of Plants. Should've been required reading in high school or college instead of one of the thousands of war novels we read and re-read and re-re-read, but hey whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants

I'd say it's amazing this book came out in '73 and the common man isn't aware of these experiments and studies that go a long way to proving that plants do indeed have consciousness ... but ... in order for our society to function as it does, it's kind of imperative that we don't realize this stuff. ;P

I love plants.

Agreed! It's definitely one of my favorite books. If only schools would incorporate this kind of information into their curriculum, but I guess that's wishful thinking.   

[Monica]

I'm glad you brought up plants. Do you think that plants have a mind-body complex?

[Monica]

Animals, My Brethren \ Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz

The following pages were written in the Concentration Camp Dachau, in the midst of all kinds of cruelties. They were furtively scrawled in a hospital barrack where I stayed during my illness, in a time when Death grasped day by day after us, when we lost twelve thousand within four and a half months.

...I recall the horrible epoch of inquisition and I am sorry to state that the time of tribunals for heretics has not yet passed by, that day by day, men use to cook in boiling water other creatures which are helplessly given in the hands of their torturers. I am horrified by the idea that such men are civilized people, no rough barbarians, no natives. But in spite of all, they are only primitively civilized, primitively adapted to their cultural environment. The average European, flowing over with highbrow ideas and beautiful speeches, commits all kinds of cruelties, smilingly, not because he is compelled to do so, but because he wants to do so. Not because he lacks the faculty to reflect upon and to realize all the dreadful things they are performing. Oh no! Only because they do not want to see the facts. Otherwise they would be troubled and worried in their pleasures.

It is quite natural what people are telling you. How could they do otherwise? I hear them telling about experiences, about utilities, and I know that they consider certain acts related to slaughtering as unavoidable. Perhaps they succeeded to win you over. I guess that from your letter.

Still, considering the necessities only, one might, perhaps, agree with such people. But is there really such a necessity? The thesis may be contested. Perhaps there exists still some kind of necessity for such persons who have not yet developed into full conscious personalities.

I am not preaching to them. I am writing this letter to you, to an already awakened individual who rationally controls his impulses, who feels responsible — internally and externally — of his acts, who knows that our supreme court is sitting in our conscience. There is no appellate jurisdiction against it.

Is there any necessity by which a fully self-conscious man can be induced to slaughter? In the affirmative, each individual may have the courage to do it by his own hands. It is, evidently, a miserable kind of cowardice to pay other people to perform the blood-stained job, from which the normal man refrains in horror and dismay. Such servants are given some farthings for their bloody work, and one buys from them the desired parts of the killed animal — if possible prepared in such a way that it does not any more recall the discomfortable circumstances, nor the animal, nor its being killed, nor the bloodshed.

I think that men will be killed and tortured as long as animals are killed and tortured. So long there will be wars too. Because killing must be trained and perfected on smaller objects, morally and technically.

from http://neveragain.org.il/articles/animal...koberwitz/

[I_Am_The_One]

The issue of killing and eating animals has been a very hot topic here at Bring4th. The most common argument in favor of disregarding the *free will of animals is that they are, after all, merely 2D entities, like plants. Since we must eat something, the argument goes, it makes no difference whether we 'choose' to eat plants or animals, since they are all 2D anyway.

Here is a very compelling video citing cases of animals showing complex, profound, human-like emotions, such as inconsolable grief when losing a loved one. (Don't worry; it's not graphic!)

2D Entities Showing Grief and Other Emotions  <<== The VIDEO. PLEASE WATCH.

Yes THAT ONE! ^^ That's the one to WATCH! Before continuing. PLEASE WATCH, PRETTY PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.  

* Animals clearly do have the will to live, being that they fight their killers. Someone will surely now respond "But maybe plants do too!" Maybe. Maybe not. We know very little about plants. We know that they have some sort of consciousness. But we know that animals have sentience; ie. individual consciousness; ie. self-awareness. We also know that animals have pain receptors and nervous systems, whereas plants don't. We also know from Ra that the hardware must accommodate the software, so it logically follows from that, that if an entity has evolved to the state of having sentience, it will inhabit a physical vehicle that can accommodate that sentience.

Please don't turn this thread into another vegans-vs-meat-eaters debate! We already have plenty of those!

The purpose of this thread is to explore what Ra says about 2D entities. (That's why it's posted in Strictly Law of One instead of the Diet sub-forum. Please help me keep this on-track, ok? Pretty please? Truce?)

Also, please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, can you please watch the above video before you post anything? Out of respect to the topic, it would be helpful if we're all on the same page. The video has important details about observed behaviors in our younger 2D brethren which are exceedingly relevant to this topic.

OK, now that you've watched the video...

So, what does Ra say about 2D entities?

13.21 Questioner: Then how does the second density progress to the third?
Ra: I am Ra. The second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

With this in mind, would you not agree that the entities in the above video are self-aware mind/body complexes?

9.14 Questioner: Then there were second-density entities here prior to approximately 75,000 years ago. What type of entities were these?

Ra: The second density is the density of the higher plant life and animal life which exists without the upward drive towards the infinite. These second-density beings are of an octave of consciousness just as you find various orientations of consciousness among the conscious entities of your vibration.

An octave of consciousness. Just as there is an octave of consciousness among humans...ranging from, for example, a young 3D soul contrasted with the likes of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Yogananda?


Is there a broad range of consciousness between you or me, and Krishna or Buddha? how about between your next-door neighbor and Yogananda?


Likewise, could there be a range of consciousness between, say, a carrot and your dog?

19.5 Questioner: When the first second-density entities became third on this planet, was this with the help of the transfer of beings from Mars, or were there second-density entities that evolved into third density with no outside influence?

Ra: I am Ra. There were some second-density entities which made the graduation into third density with no outside stimulus but only the efficient use of experience.

Thus, not only our companion dogs and cats might be eligible for graduation to 3D, but any higher 2D entity who has made efficient use of catalyst.

Others of your planetary second density joined the third-density cycle due to harvesting efforts by the same sort of sending of vibratory aid as those of the Confederation send you now. This communication was, however, telepathic rather than telepathic/vocal or telepathic/written due to the nature of second-density beings.

So the Confederation sent aid to 2D entities, just as they now send aid to us.


Could it not stand to reason, then, that the Confederation might be sending aid to 2D entities right now?


Furthermore, could it not stand to reason that some Wanderers might be joining in that effort, while incarnate on this planet, upon hearing the call for help?

20.3 Questioner: So more and more second-density entities are making it into third density. Can you give me an example of a second-density entity coming into third density, say, in the recent past?

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the most common occurrence of second-density graduation during third-density cycle is the so-called pet.

The animal which is exposed to the individualizing influences of the bond between animal and third-density entity, this individuation causes a sharp rise in the potential of the second-density entity so that upon the cessation of physical complex the mind/body complex does not return unto the undifferentiated consciousness of that species, if you will.

Let's refer again to 13.21, quoted above:

[font=sans-serif]they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.
[/font]

Ah, it appears that graduation from 2D to 3D is a 2-step process. 2D is a very long density, starting out as undifferentiated consciousness, easily observed in the blades of grass on a lawn, the leaves of a lettuce plant, or even the instinct of wild animals. At some point, however, this undifferentiated consciousness becomes differentiated...sentient...self-aware. This is Step 1. It is now a self-aware mind/body complex. What makes the animal, operating purely on instinct (group mind, or undifferentiated consciousness) become self-aware?


My guess is that, in the wild, it is getting left behind the herd, perhaps after stepping in a hole and breaking one's leg, and then falling prey to a predator. In that moment of getting killed by the predator, the animal is separated from the herd...differentiated. The animal experiences catalyst.


From that moment on, the entity differentiates from the herd...and begins the journey of self-awareness, finely honing this self-awareness with each subsequent lifetime, just as a 3D human experiences a glimmer of love/compassion, and then finely hones that flowering of the heart with each subsequent lifetime, perhaps over hundreds or even thousands of lifetimes, until reaching the point of graduation to 4D.


4D is the density of love. Yet 3D humans surely experience love.


Likewise, while 3D is the density of self-awareness, 2D entities surely experience self-awareness.


When humans reach the threshold of 51% STO, they are harvestable to 4D.


I don't remember whether Ra mentioned a threshold for 2D, but surely there is one. Surely there is a point at which the self-awareness is such that they now reach Step 2: Graduation from a mind/body complex to a mind/body/spirit complex.

[/url]14.[url=http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=14#1]1 Questioner: Going back over this morning’s work, [inaudible]. You said the second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through higher second-density forms invested by third-density beings. Could you explain what you mean by this?

Ra: I am Ra. Much as you would put on a vestment, so do your third-density beings invest or clothe some second-density beings with self-awareness. This is often done through the opportunity of what you call pets. It has also been done by various other means of investiture. These include many so-called religious practice complexes which personify and send love to various natural second-density beings in their group form.

Higher. This indicates that there is indeed a difference between a lower 2D entity and a higher 2D entity.

14.2 Questioner: When this Earth was second-density, how did the second-density beings on this Earth become so invested?

Ra: There was not this type of investment as spoken but the simple third-density investment which is the line of spiraling light calling distortion upward from density to density. The process takes longer when there is no investment made by incarnate third-density beings.

It takes longer but it does indeed happen. This means that animals in the wild can be harvestable to 3D also...not just pets.

13.18 Questioner: Could you define what you mean by growth?

Ra: I am Ra. Picture, if you will, the difference between first-vibrational mineral or water life and the lower second-density beings which begin to move about within and upon its being. This movement is the characteristic of second density, the striving towards light and growth.

Ah...interesting that Ra mentions movement. I have long asserted that an entity whose consciousness is self-aware wouldn't likely incarnate into the body of an immobile carrot. The hardware must accommodate the software.


(I can hear the protests: What about people in comas? Yes, yes, entities can choose all sorts of catalyst. But 3D entities don't typically incarnate into dogs, right? So why would a higher 2D entity incarnate into the body of a lower 2D entity?)

19.2 Questioner: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call sound vibration complex “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third category is mineral. Occasionally a certain location, place as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

Notice that the only plant Ra mentioned is tree. But a crystal, or even a place, could develop self-awareness, if invested. This raises the question: Could any set of molecules develop self-awareness? I once knew a psychic who claimed that her faithful VW had a consciousness, and even had a name. The idea of AI is prevalent in sci-fi books and movies. As a former computer programmer (back in the mainframe days), I've had conversations with veteran programmers who swore up and down that the computer had a consciousness.

Why not?

Why might a computer, a house, or a tree develop self-awareness, but not a carrot or a lettuce?

My guess is that it is this investiture that Ra speaks of. And, there seems to be another factor: time.

Trees live long lives. When I read what Ra said about trees - apparently only some trees, not all trees, or trees would have been as prevalent as animals - I immediately thought of Grandfather trees - the ancient, 1000+ -year-old tree that has been loved by countless generations. Think of ancient oak in the back yard of a house passed on, generation after generation, for hundreds of years...with countless generations of children climbing the tree...loving it. 

Yes, I can see how that tree might develop self-awareness.

Now contrast that to the lettuce, which is but one among hundreds of lettuces, that lives a very short life...only a few weeks. Even in a backyard garden, the gardener might love all their plants, but does that individual lettuce stand out enough to develop sentience? Perhaps...if the gardener gave it special attention...perhaps it will be a chicken in its next life.

But is that single lettuce, or that single carrot, likely to develop sentience to the degree that a chicken, cat or dog would? No, for the simple reason that there isn't sufficient time to be invested.

20.4 Questioner: Then can you give me an example of an entity in third density that was just previously a second-density entity? What type of entity do they become here?

Ra: I am Ra. As a second-density entity returns as third-density for the beginning of this process of learning, the entity is equipped with the lowest, if you will so call these vibrational distortions, forms of third-density consciousness; that is, equipped with self-consciousness.

Not quite a Buddha or Jesus, eh? Just as the carrot is not quite a dog or cow?

What I'm getting at here is that there is an octave of difference between early 2D and late 2D, just as there is an octave of difference between early 3D and late 3D.

19.7 Questioner: Then the Confederation also aided in second density to third density transition. Is this correct?


Ra: I am Ra. We must qualify correctness of this query. A portion of the Confederation which is not working with third density but finds its aid best used in other harvests— that is the second-density harvest— is responsible for aid in these harvests. The Confederation, as we have stated previously in these sessions, is composed of many of those in other densities, in your own density, within your planetary sphere, and within the inner or angelic realms. Each of those entities developing a mind/body/spirit complex, and then developing a social memory complex, and then dedicating this social memory complex to the singular service to the One Creator, may join the Confederation.

Developing. This shows that it doesn't happen instantly. It is a process. Becoming sentient is a process. Hence, the long duration of 2D. Hence, higher 2D entities are further along in that process than early 2D entities. 

All of this leads to an unavoidable conclusion:

Higher 2D entities - animals and the occasional tree, crystal or location - are very, very different from lower 2D entities.

I would even take it a step further and speculate that they have more in common with us - the 3D entities with whom they will soon join - than with lower 2D entities (carrots and lettuces).

Therefore, the attempt to justify killing and eating these younger other-selves which was frequently cited:

---Plants are 2D and animals are also 2D so, therefore, eating animals is the same as eating plants---

...falls apart.


Animals are higher 2D. So is the occasional Grandfather Tree. But the blades of grass on your lawn? The leaves of a lettuce plant? A carrot? No, not likely.

It isn't such a simple matter of: We are 3D and they are 2D so therefore it's ok to kill them. No, not so simple at all. There are gradations in consciousness. Animals bleed red blood, like we do, for a reason. They have pain receptors and nervous systems, for a reason. They have the ability to feel pain and fear, for a reason. They feel complex, deep emotions like profound grief, for a reason.They struggle when threatened, and try to escape being harmed or killed, for a reason.

I submit that the line of speciesism has been drawn in the wrong place by students of the Law of One. All is One. But if there must be a demarcation, let it be where the blood runs red, rather than a number 2D or 3D, which isn't such a simple classification after all. It isn't so simple as animals and plants both being 2D...No, there are octaves of consciousness. There are gradations. There are attributes of self-awareness that occur somewhere along that very long density, at which point a process of fanning the spark of sentience begins, just as 3D entities are fanning the spark of love and compassion.

Even 2D entities - animals - are now displaying compassion. Say, what? Was that supposed to happen? What's going on here? Why are 2D entities demonstrating love and compassion, which are supposedly higher 3D traits? 

If anything, that makes it all the more obvious that they have more in common with us, than with the carrots in our garden. Cows aren't carrots. You can try and try and try to convince yourself that they are the same, but they aren't. As I said numerous times in the heated debates, just try killing a cow, and pull up a carrot from the ground, and compare. They are different.


Killing the cow is much more akin to killing a human, than to pulling up a carrot. That's just obvious.


I have stated this before, but now I present to you the Ra quotes that back up my assertions.


Related threads:


Bring4th Forums One > Olio  > 2D Entities Evolving?


Bring4th Forums Two > Science & Technology  > Scientists Say Animals Conscious...like us

19.15 Questioner: Then the newest third-density beings who’ve just made the transition from second are still strongly biased towards self-service. There must be many other mechanisms to create an awareness of the possibility of service to others.


I am wondering, first— two things. I’m wondering about the mechanism and I am wondering when the split takes place where the entity is able to continue on the road towards service to self that will eventually take him to fourth or fifth density.

I would assume that an entity can continue— can start, say, in second density with service totally to self and continue right on through and just stay on what we would call the path of service to self and never ever be pulled over. Is this correct?


Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self. Thus though a distortion not helpful for progress in third density, it is without polarity.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives other-selves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

I have made the case that animals are other-selves. Killing an other-self - who is clearly struggling to survive - is the ultimate manipulation.

40.3 Questioner: Thank you. I was also wondering if the first density corresponded somehow to the color red, the second to the color orange, the third to the color yellow and so on through the densities corresponding to the colors in perhaps a way so that the basic vibration that forms the photon that forms the core of all atomic particles would have a relationship to that color in the densityand, and that that vibration would step up for second, third, and fourth density corresponding to the increase in the vibration of the colors. Is this in any way correct?


Ra: I am Ra. This is more correct than you have stated. Firstly, you are correct in positing a quantum, if you will, as the nature of each density and further correct in assuming that these quanta may be seen to be of vibratory natures corresponding to color as you grasp this word. However, it is also true, as you have suspected but not asked, that each density is of the metaphysical characteristic complex of its ray. Thus in first density the red ray is the foundation for all that is to come. In second density the orange ray is that of movement and growth of the individual, this ray striving towards the yellow ray of self-conscious manifestations of a social nature as well as individual; third density being the equivalent, and so forth, each density being primarily its ray plus the attractions of the following ray pulling it forward in evolution and to some extent coloring or shading the chief color of that density.

Animals have social structures. Did you know that cows have best friends?


Freed Cows Jump for Joy

13.17 Questioner: Does this first density then progress to greater awareness?


Ra: The spiraling energy, which is the characteristic of what you call “light,” moves in straight line spiral thus giving spirals an inevitable vector upwards to a more comprehensive beingness with regards to intelligent infinity. Thus, first dimensional beingness strives towards the second-density lessons of a type of awareness which includes growth rather than dissolution or random change.


19.14 Questioner: Then we have second-density beings who have primarily motivation towards service to self and possibly a little bit of service to others with respect to their immediate families going into third density and carrying this bias with them but being in a position now where this bias will slowly be modified to one which is aimed toward a social complex and then ultimately toward union with the all. Am I correct?


Ra: I am Ra. You are correct.


19.6 Questioner: Who sent the aid to the second-density beings?

[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Ra: I am Ra. We call ourselves the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. This is a simplification in order to ease the difficulty of understanding among your people. We hesitate to use the term, sound vibration, “understanding,” but it is closest to our meaning.
[/font][/font]

[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Higher 2D entities are already starting to polarize STS/STO. [/font][/font]


Aid...Ra sends aid to 2D entities. 


[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]I invite you to ponder that. [/font][/font]


[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Why are higher 2D entities valuable enough that Ra would send aid to them? [/font][/font]


[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Further, if mind-boy complexes (higher 2D entities - animals) can make the jump to 3D harvestability because of use of catalyst, and 2D entities already start polarizing STS or STO, then what direction is the farm animal likely to polarize?[/font][/font]


Think about your beloved cat or dog...pampered like a baby, part of the family. Surely the seeds have been sown for a bias towards STO.


Now compare that to an entity every bit as intelligent and self-aware as your dog - a cow or pig or chicken - who lives his entire live in constant agony...cut off from his social circle, his family taken from him, never ever experiencing any love whatsoever, but in fact is kicked, prodded, poked, even mutilated without any anesthesia, then prodded down a chute running red with blood from his friends...he dies in a state of terror and pain...or maybe he is even scaled alive...or even cut in pieces and served on a plate, alive...tortured...s/he dies in a state of being tortured.

This is happening by the billions, right this very minute.


Ra sees fit to answer the call of 2D entities. 2D entities begin their polarization. What direction is that cow or pig likely to polarize in?

What causes a child to become a sociopath? Lack of bonding, coupled with abuse. This is well established.



Billions upon billions of these young souls - these younger other-selves - are waking up to full self-awareness in a state of fear and pain...extreme abuse. Is this planet producing a huge harvest of sociopathic, STS entities? Newly harvested 3D entities...with a distinct bias towards STS?

By eating animals, not only is it inherently STS towards that particular entity, but it is also aiding in the polarizing of great numbers of young 3D STS entities.

What dark planet is being inhabited right now by all those tortured farm animals who are graduating to 3D through the intense catalyst they just experienced?

I offer these thoughts in the context of the Law of One. Again, this is NOT yet another debate about eating meat. I ask these questions in all sincerity: Have you given any thought as to the seriousness of this situation? Again, Ra sees fit to answer the call of 2D entities.

Are we working with Ra to answer their call? Or...are we creating a nightmare population of sociopaths?


...

Hey That last line sums it all up. I believe alot of the predator against prey "mentality" is a product of what we do to the environment. I want to stay on topic, but I feel I must provide information. Alot of the meat products, humans eat, are intentionally filled with fear, hatred, and other lower vibrations. You say how? Well these animals, cows for example, are tortured and mistreated on purpose. Then humans consume these meats, containing these vibrations.


Returning to the subject matter, I would agree entirely, with you stating animals have sentinence, mind my spelling.  I would also state, we are all connected. The destruction you witness to Earth, is just as much destruction aimed for you. The hardest part I have is, imagining a world, without meat eaters. Or a system close to this one. I know this doesnt mean it cant exist. Not to be rude, or confronting, I ask in an expansion of awareness. Can you imagine a world with a "perfect" system of no meat eaters, or energy being obtained, through lower density selfs. In 3rd density. I know it can exist, is what im saying, help me see it, is what im asking.

[Monica]

Hey That last line sums it all up. I believe alot of the predator against prey "mentality" is a product of what we do to the environment. I want to stay on topic, but I feel I must provide information. Alot of the meat products, humans eat, are intentionally filled with fear, hatred, and other lower vibrations. You say how? Well these animals, cows for example, are tortured and mistreated on purpose. Then humans consume these meats, containing these vibrations.

Exactly! So the cycle is perpetuated.

We know from the prison experiment that violent criminals are more likely to be repeat offenders if they eat meat, with a drastically lower rate of recurrent violent behavior after going vegan. What does that say?

It says that the consumption of meat is helping to perpetuate the cycle of violence!

We know that negative entities consume fear, hatred, and other lower vibrations. It is their food.

Billions of sentient beings live in a constant state of fear, grief and stress. The meat/dairy industry is literally feeding STS beings!

Returning to the subject matter, I would agree entirely, with you stating animals have sentinence, mind my spelling.  I would also state, we are all connected. The destruction you witness to Earth, is just as much destruction aimed for you. The hardest part I have is, imagining a world, without meat eaters. Or a system close to this one. I know this doesnt mean it cant exist. Not to be rude, or confronting, I ask in an expansion of awareness. Can you imagine a world with a "perfect" system of no meat eaters, or energy being obtained, through lower density selfs. In 3rd density. I know it can exist, is what im saying, help me see it, is what im asking.

Yes. I can see it happening, because it is already happening, in small pockets of society. When enough people have raised their awareness and chosen nonviolent lifestyles, that higher consciousness will spread through the collective.

[I_Am_The_One]

Hey That last line sums it all up. I believe alot of the predator against prey "mentality" is a product of what we do to the environment. I want to stay on topic, but I feel I must provide information. Alot of the meat products, humans eat, are intentionally filled with fear, hatred, and other lower vibrations. You say how? Well these animals, cows for example, are tortured and mistreated on purpose. Then humans consume these meats, containing these vibrations.

Exactly! So the cycle is perpetuated.

We know from the prison experiment that violent criminals are more likely to be repeat offenders if they eat meat, with a drastically lower rate of recurrent violent behavior after going vegan. What does that say?

It says that the consumption of meat is helping to perpetuate the cycle of violence!

We know that negative entities consume fear, hatred, and other lower vibrations. It is their food.

Billions of sentient beings live in a constant state of fear, grief and stress. The meat/dairy industry is literally feeding STS beings!

Returning to the subject matter, I would agree entirely, with you stating animals have sentinence, mind my spelling.  I would also state, we are all connected. The destruction you witness to Earth, is just as much destruction aimed for you. The hardest part I have is, imagining a world, without meat eaters. Or a system close to this one. I know this doesnt mean it cant exist. Not to be rude, or confronting, I ask in an expansion of awareness. Can you imagine a world with a "perfect" system of no meat eaters, or energy being obtained, through lower density selfs. In 3rd density. I know it can exist, is what im saying, help me see it, is what im asking.

Yes. I can see it happening, because it is already happening, in small pockets of society. When enough people have raised their awareness and chosen nonviolent lifestyles, that higher consciousness will spread through the collective.

Monica I love your affinity for animals. I rarely eat meats, I rarely eat actually. I agree with you entirely, From this point forth, I will not eat meat.  Just the other day, I witnessed a mother squirrel, use intelligence to save her baby. When she saved the baby, and was holding it. She coddled the baby with her cheek.  I would also agree the meat and dairy are aimed at such goals. Anything and everything is being used if it can be by the orions. Research flouride, look at all the heavy metals in our foods. The list is endless almost. much love and light to all.

[Monica]

Monica I love your affinity for animals. I rarely eat meats, I rarely eat actually. I agree with you entirely, From this point forth, I will not eat meat.  Just the other day, I witnessed a mother squirrel, use intelligence to save her baby. When she saved the baby, and was holding it. She coddled the baby with her cheek.  I would also agree the meat and dairy are aimed at such goals. Anything and everything is being used if it can be by the orions. Research flouride, look at all the heavy metals in our foods. The list is endless almost. much love and light to all.

   

You might enjoy this:

Bring4th Forums One > Olio  v > 2D Entities Evolving?

The thread got sidetracked but there are many links to examples like that mother squirrel. It seems to be happening more and more! My favorites are the Bear Saves Drowning Bird and the bird picking up litter and putting it in the trash can.  :exclamation:

...

[I_Am_The_One]

Monica I love your affinity for animals. I rarely eat meats, I rarely eat actually. I agree with you entirely, From this point forth, I will not eat meat.  Just the other day, I witnessed a mother squirrel, use intelligence to save her baby. When she saved the baby, and was holding it. She coddled the baby with her cheek.  I would also agree the meat and dairy are aimed at such goals. Anything and everything is being used if it can be by the orions. Research flouride, look at all the heavy metals in our foods. The list is endless almost. much love and light to all.

   

You might enjoy this:

Bring4th Forums One > Olio  v > 2D Entities Evolving?

The thread got sidetracked but there are many links to examples like that mother squirrel. It seems to be happening more and more! My favorites are the Bear Saves Drowning Bird and the bird picking up litter and putting it in the trash can.  :exclamation:

...

I do believe animals are evolving most definitely. Humans are not the only beings here. I feel a great affinity for trees. Idk If I spent a good portion of 2d as one, or not. I just love them. They are the first thing, I tried to communicate with mentally. Hopefully the world will keep growing in love and awareness, and we can all one day search for love and grow, without such ambiguous catalyst. I send love and light to all of you. Join with me and send light to our planetary sphere. I love mother Earth, and all her beautiful portions.  Much love and light to all.

[Diana]

Monica I love your affinity for animals. I rarely eat meats, I rarely eat actually. I agree with you entirely, From this point forth, I will not eat meat.  Just the other day, I witnessed a mother squirrel, use intelligence to save her baby. When she saved the baby, and was holding it. She coddled the baby with her cheek.  I would also agree the meat and dairy are aimed at such goals. Anything and everything is being used if it can be by the orions. Research flouride, look at all the heavy metals in our foods. The list is endless almost. much love and light to all.

That's awesome. 

And we can all thank Monica for her endless efforts to bring awareness of animal suffering to B4 and wherever she can. Her intelligence and commitment, and her courage and unbroken spirit while seeing horrible things that would break my own spirit, serve not only the animal kingdom, but the humans who are unaware of what is going on. I officially give Monica a medal of courage from the animal community.

[Monica]

And we can all thank Monica for her endless efforts to bring awareness of animal suffering to B4 and wherever she can. Her intelligence and commitment, and her courage and unbroken spirit while seeing horrible things that would break my own spirit, serve not only the animal kingdom, but the humans who are unaware of what is going on. I officially give Monica a medal of courage from the animal community.

Thanks Diana!  I've been away and just now saw this.

You posted this 3 weeks ago and...no responses. Not even a single 'like.' But when someone posts something about how 'judgmental' vegans are, it never fails to get several likes and avid agreement. How funny '6D Wanderers' are! Maybe someday when I graduate to their exalted level of existence, I will understand their superior love and wisdom. Until then, I will just keep plodding along.

  to everyone.

[Minyatur]

What's the exalted level of existence? Not trying to be a judge?

[Monica]

What's the exalted level of existence? Not trying to be a judge?

Right. Because judging is always far, far worse than whatever it is they're judging. Judging someone for harming an other-self is always worse than actually harming an other-self! 

I know this must be true, because that is what everyone keeps hammering into me. I just have trouble wrapping my mind around it, but I'm trying! 

I know ya'll have all been trying to tell me that, along with these other attributes of higher consciousness:

Apparently, it's understanding that self is all that matters, hurting others is ok, while judging others for trying to help others (judging is the ultimate faux pas, but judging someone for supposedly judging is A-Ok), but realizing the wisdom of not contributing to any show of appreciation for their efforts because their efforts are all folly, understanding that trying to answer the call of the oppressed is a far, FAR worse offense than actually oppressing, because it's foolish, because obviously the oppressed are choosing it so it's ok for us to contribute to their oppressing, and judging someone for hurting others is far worse than actually hurting others, and maintaining an 'anything goes' attitude, even contributing to extreme suffering, since everything is already 'perfect.' 

Oh, and anyone trying to answer the call of others, is actually controlling. Let's not forget that!

Gosh, I just can't quite get all that. I try and try but just can't get it. I guess I have a loooooong way to go! I ask everyone to please be patient with me, since I am, apparently, only a lowly 4D, lacking wisdom, and still making the mistake of thinking that compassion is important, and still making the mistake (like Ra did) of trying to answer the call of other-selves. I look up to all of the 6D's here, who are able to ignore the cries of lesser beings, while continuing to harm them, since it's all illusion anyway and nothing matters, not even this silly conversation. I wish I could understand how you all do it! That is such an advanced concept that it eludes me right now. I also wish to be with you in your SMC, in a world of Love and Light, built upon the blood and fear of lesser beings, where exalted 6D Wanderers will walk the hallowed halls, sipping nectar, chuckling over the folly of foolish beings like me, but apparently I'm not ready for that. I'm not even ready for this forum, which is a Mystery School for advanced 6D Wanderers to prepare for going poof.

Thank you for illustrating my point. You are my role model!   Maybe someday I can be like all of you. Until then, I salute you! 

[Diana]

OMG LMAO @ Monica's above post!

I'm sure someone here will be offended. But if anyone is, remember the story about glass houses.

Also remember to laugh, especially at yourself. It makes things here a lot easier if you can do that in my most humble opinion. Oh okay, so I'm not so humble. 

[Minyatur]

I never said anything was worse than any other thing. I've just said that you're playing the role of a judge, what you make out of it is yours to decide as I am not saying this to judge you but rather point something out. You have the duality of how you think reality should be and how it really is. Because it is not as you want it to be, you work to change it and do resist it. That is a type of catalyst, but will you do this till the end of time or will you at some point accept what is as part of the whole?

This is more complicated than it seems. What you want would not save any animal, it would deny the life that they had. All animals that suffered because of meat farms would for some part have not existed without these said meat farms, they are born for that experience. There is no coincidence, everything is where it needs to experience it's path. The past is only the cornerstone of the future, these entities go through these experiences because it is required for what they become in the manner they are to become it. It is many-ness unfolding, while what you want is Monica-ness.

You say you don't understand why higher densities would let go of these things, but look at the higher orders of this universe. Is the Earth, the Sun, whatever keeps in place the laws of physics or even the One preventing this from happening? The closer one is to the One, the more unconditionnal it becomes as it grows in awareness that there is no disharmony beyond the illusion of separateness. Unconditionnal love makes no subjective distinctions between what it wants and what is, it simply lets what is be as a rightful part of the whole. There is nothing lesser or greater, there is One and that is all there will ever be.

At one point you will become a Logos, and entities will be born out of yourself to create all of these deeds that you hate. To reach that point in spiritual evolution, you first have to be able to let happen what is to be without putting into it intentions of your own as how things should be. Everything born out of you will play that same tug of war of distorting this reality until they too reach awareness of acceptance of the whole as it is. It is inevitable, it has always been and it will always be.

[Monica]

2112

'The massive grey walls of the Temples rise from the heart of every Federation city. I
have always been awed by them, to think that every single facet of every life is regulated
and directed from within! Our books, our music, our work and play are all looked after by
the benevolent wisdom of the priests...'

We've taken care of everything
The words you read, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

...

I know it's most unusual
To come before you so
But I've found an ancient miracle
I thought that you should know
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you

Yes, we know, it's nothing new
It's just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
The world is doing fine
Another toy that helped destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan

I can't believe you're saying
These things just can't be true
Our world could use this beauty
Just think what we might do
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you

Don't annoy us further!
We have our work to do
Just think about the average
What use have they for you?
Another toy that helped destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the Plan!

...

I wandered home through the silent streets
And fell into a fitful sleep
Escape to realms beyond the night
Dream can't you show me the light?

I stand atop a spiral stair
An oracle confronts me there
He leads me on light years away
Through astral nights, galactic days
I see the works of gifted hands
That grace this strange and wondrous land
I see the hand of man arise
With hungry mind and open eyes

They left the planet long ago
The elder race still learn and grow
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong
Home to tear the Temples down...
Home to change!


...

[Stranger]

All animals that suffered because of meat farms would have not existed without these said meat farms, they are born for that experience.

Holy cow.

Let's replace "animals" with "human slaves" in the above quote, and see whether that rolls off your tongue so readily.

Intellectualizing away suffering is not oneness - it's simple callousness wrapped in a pseudospiritual packaging.

[Minyatur]

All animals that suffered because of meat farms would have not existed without these said meat farms, they are born for that experience.

Holy cow.

Let's replace "animals" with "human slaves" in the above quote, and see whether that rolls off your tongue so readily.

Intellectualizing away suffering is not oneness - it's simple callousness wrapped in a pseudospiritual packaging.

Yet you are the doer and experiencer of all of these things, is that also not part of oneness?

But you are right it is not oneness, it is manyness which is our purpose in being.

[AnthroHeart]

I've been tortured by anthros in a past life, and I hold no grudge.

[Diana]

You say you don't understand why higher densities would let go of these things, but look at the higher orders of this universe. Is the Earth, the Sun, whatever keeps in place the laws of physics or even the One preventing this from happening? The closer one is to the One, the more unconditionnal it becomes as it grows in awareness that there is no disharmony beyond the illusion of separateness. Unconditionnal love makes no subjective distinctions between what it wants and what is, it simply lets what is be as a rightful part of the whole. There is nothing lesser or greater, there is One and that is all there will ever be.

Even if this is so, do you think beings in higher realms would DO what we do here to animals, each other? Do you think they would participate in cruelty just because, oh everything is harmonious? This is the point for goodness sake. Everything may be as it should be as the New Agers say, but that is a different concept than participation in 3D madness and cruelty. 

Higher beings (or however you want to phrase that) may accept everything as the OIC, but would they harm others because all is accepted? Would they participate in wars and kill people and destroy life forms because of some stupid power-engorged government? And if they would... why? Just because it's there?

Do you think those of Ra would come here and just indulge in whatever is done here because oh well, that's what they do here? 

What everyone does, matters. To say everything is the OIC is one-dimensional at best. What would be the point of it all? The OIC wants to experience itself? That's not enough and it does not explain why every human has an innate desire, however it manifests in their consciousness, to better themselves, evolve, to walk a path. Why do so many here at B4 think they are from 6D? Why would they care at all if not for the innate urge to advance? Perhaps you may see it as the simple concept of remerging with the OIC. But if this is true, then what's in it for the OIC? As all the parts if itself come back, hasn't the journey meant something? Would it be so simple that everything was experienced? That's not possible within the concept of infinity. So the sum of experience would be finite, and thus have a unique totality derived from the experiences accumulated. If the remerging with OIC is infinite, randomly experiencing anything and everything, the idea of that just pisses me off, and seems entirely selfish on the part of the OIC (if there is one). What would be the point of growing and learning and taking responsibility and all that jazz? Maybe it's all just nothing and the atheists are correct. It's the same as saying it's all everything. Infinite everything/nothing.  

[Diana]

All animals that suffered because of meat farms would have not existed without these said meat farms, they are born for that experience.

Holy cow.

Let's replace "animals" with "human slaves" in the above quote, and see whether that rolls off your tongue so readily.

Intellectualizing away suffering is not oneness - it's simple callousness wrapped in a pseudospiritual packaging.

I can't like this more than once, so I'm reposting it.

[Minyatur]

Even if this is so, do you think beings in higher realms would DO what we do here to animals, each other? Do you think they would participate in cruelty just because, oh everything is harmonious? This is the point for goodness sake. Everything may be as it should be as the New Agers say, but that is a different concept than participation in 3D madness and cruelty. 

Higher beings (or however you want to phrase that) may accept everything as the OIC, but would they harm others because all is accepted? Would they participate in wars and kill people and destroy life forms because of some stupid power-engorged government? And if they would... why? Just because it's there?

Do you think those of Ra would come here and just indulge in whatever is done here because oh well, that's what they do here? 

What everyone does, matters. To say everything is the OIC is one-dimensional at best. What would be the point of it all? The OIC wants to experience itself? That's not enough and it does not explain why every human has an innate desire, however it manifests in their consciousness, to better themselves, evolve, to walk a path. Why do so many here at B4 think they are from 6D? Why would they care at all if not for the innate urge to advance? Perhaps you may see it as the simple concept of remerging with the OIC. But if this is true, then what's in it for the OIC? As all the parts if itself come back, hasn't the journey meant something? Would it be so simple that everything was experienced? That's not possible within the concept of infinity. So the sum of experience would be finite, and thus have a unique totality derived from the experiences accumulated. If the remerging with OIC is infinite, randomly experiencing anything and everything, the idea of that just pisses me off, and seems entirely selfish on the part of the OIC (if there is one). What would be the point of growing and learning and taking responsibility and all that jazz? Maybe it's all just nothing and the atheists are correct. It's the same as saying it's all everything. Infinite everything/nothing.  

Densities mean nothing, it is about seeking lessons. If Ra comes here, it is to be veiled and forget what he knows of himself to obtain a new perspective of the whole which can include meat-eating for all I know. Veiling ourselves in a meat-eating planet seems indirectly about doing it at least for some time.

About what you said of the OIC :

Questioner: Now, I understand that the first distortion of intelligent infinity is the distortion of what we call free will. Can you give me a definition of this distortion?

Ra: I am Ra. In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself.

This is what allows existence, this is why we are here. Would you prefer empty void rather than that the Creator will know Itself? We are manyness, exploring infinite point of views of the Creator of Itself through infinite self and other-selves. This is what we are, this is the purpose of existence in itself. We could've remained rocks or just elements or even massless particles or void, but we're ever evolving toward new kind of experiences and all that happens is part of that.

Reality exists for us to learn from it, not for us to to make it alike how we currently are. Althought doing so can still be part of a catalyst for self and other-selves but it is an impossible road that can only either be a never-ending effort for all of eternity or eventually end in acceptance fo the whole.

[Diana]

Would you prefer empty void rather than that the Creator will know Itself? We are manyness, exploring infinite point of views of the Creator of Itself through infinite self and other-selves. This is what we are, this is the purpose of existence in itself. We could've remained rocks or just elements or even massless particles or void, but we're ever evolving toward new kind of experiences and all that happens is part of that.

Reality exists for us to learn from it, not for us to to make it alike how we currently are. Althought doing so can still be part of a catalyst for self and other-selves but it is an impossible road that can only either be a never-ending effort for all of eternity or eventually end in acceptance fo the whole.

I think you mean well, but your words remind me of Christians who employ circular logic to validate their stance. 

To the above bolded: what do you mean by this? Do you mean something such as, I (Diana) am a vegetarian and I want to perpetuate that forever and make everyone else agree with me? If so, you are wrong.

You are very sure of what you say. If one of us is rigid (you or me), it's not me. I have only working theories. 

Acceptance and faith concerning a Creator is something for followers. I'm not a follower. I can resonate with Intelligent Infinity. But a Creator who sets up rules and how things are (which is in conflict with the idea of infinity) is not for me. And once again, sounds like the Christian version of reality—if you don't accept our way, you go to hell instead of heaven. I like the wave/particle duality and I'll endeavor to stay in the wave function where all possibilities exist.  

[Jade]

Even if this is so, do you think beings in higher realms would DO what we do here to animals, each other?

We are being from higher realms, doing what we do here. That is why we are here, it is an illusion.

Now, if one acts in a consciously unloving manner, it can cause karmic repercussions. From my experience, what changed for me when I quit eating meat/dairy was that I stopped being at war with my body. It was a huge relief. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of my "karma" from behaving "consciously unloving" was in the form of the various bodily ailments I used to suffer. I cannot speak for others. However, my biggest problem is when a blanket statement that all meat and dairy consumption is behaving in a consciously unloving manner. I cannot buy into that for one second. We all have a choice in 3D, yes. Many nuanced choices where we spend many years and many lifetimes refining our preferences and how we can most be of service.

Eating is so socially ingrained in us, and with so many people a mealtime is synonymous with family. It is no secret that today, for one to be completely vegan, they have to abstain from many of the normal eating celebrations/holidays/gathering we have with our family. This can cause unrest in the family unit. What do you mean, mom can't cook you her favorite meatloaf anymore? And grandma spent all day slaving over this roasted Thanksgiving turkey, you aren't even going to have a bite? To say people are acting unconsciously loving when they don't have the resolve to stand up to familial pressures about diet is a tough call to make. It doesn't help that we are so far removed from the slaughter and we receive our meat either pre-cooked and presented beautifully or in neat bloodless packages weighed out by the ounce at the grocery store, with cute cut names on the package. Advertising, too, is intense, and if I'm starving sometimes even I can't deny how delicious something can look in an artfully crafted advertisement.

I just wish the blanket statements would go away and we could accept that there are gray areas in this debate. I saw in the "spiritual diet" thread that no meat, no eggs, no dairy was spiritual. But if I had a cow, and a small flock of hens, who I cared for and loved daily, and I consumed some of their extra eggs/milk, I think this is pure spiritual love of the Creator in action. It's just as, if not more, spiritual as a tending a garden and harvesting its fruits. I think even if people source their eggs/dairy from very small production, local farms, that it can be a positive and benevolent act.

The only reason people even bother to argue with you, Monica, is that there is a very obvious blockage in one who refuses so strongly to accept our planet in the moment. We all have this blockage from time to time, but you consistently act upon this same lack-of-acceptance here on these forums, and don't really engage anywhere else, so we just get stuck with the one Monica. And everyone wants to help her in their own way.

We are all co-creators, we chose to be here, this is a collective reality. Yes, factory farming is abhorrent, and needs to stop ASAP, but this is the reality we are in, and before we can do anything to truly change it, we must first accept it and love it. That's like rule #1. You must first crystallize the heart chakra before you can start utilizing the full power of the throat chakra.

[Minyatur]

Would you prefer empty void rather than that the Creator will know Itself? We are manyness, exploring infinite point of views of the Creator of Itself through infinite self and other-selves. This is what we are, this is the purpose of existence in itself. We could've remained rocks or just elements or even massless particles or void, but we're ever evolving toward new kind of experiences and all that happens is part of that.

Reality exists for us to learn from it, not for us to to make it alike how we currently are. Althought doing so can still be part of a catalyst for self and other-selves but it is an impossible road that can only either be a never-ending effort for all of eternity or eventually end in acceptance fo the whole.

I think you mean well, but your words remind me of Christians who employ circular logic to validate their stance. 

To the above bolded: what do you mean by this? Do you mean something such as, I (Diana) am a vegetarian and I want to perpetuate that forever and make everyone else agree with me? If so, you are wrong.

You are very sure of what you say. If one of us is rigid (you or me), it's not me. I have only working theories. 

Acceptance and faith concerning a Creator is something for followers. I'm not a follower. I can resonate with Intelligent Infinity. But a Creator who sets up rules and how things are (which is in conflict with the idea of infinity) is not for me. And once again, sounds like the Christian version of reality—if you don't accept our way, you go to hell instead of heaven. I like the wave/particle duality and I'll endeavor to stay in the wave function where all possibilities exist.  

I only meant that if the Creator is Infinity then all things are to be including the good ones and the bad ones. The Creator in Itself is no judge nor does it make rules, the Creator is simply that which experiences all things. Rules are made solely by us as the Creator experiencing the illusion of separateness.

I do not belittle sufferings of animals, I acknowledge them as rightfully part of manyness. In my view one who thinks this should have no place at all in existence, is the one betlittling the path these entities are going through.

[Diana]

my biggest problem is when a blanket statement that all meat and dairy consumption is behaving in a consciously unloving manner. 

No one ever said this. Many here keep claiming this as an issue. I recall no one implying that everyone on this planet is even remotely conscious of what they're doing. The point is, what does one do when they DO become conscious?

If a person is aware of the cruelties in commercial animal farming, then they are conscious and make a choice (or not). We are not talking here about people who are not conscious. 

On another note: if my family is having turkey for Thanksgiving, that's their choice. I don't tell them anything. Neither do I eat it to make them feel good. What's the point in that? They know I am a vegetarian. If they can't respect that, I don't hang out with them. I don't compromise my integrity because I want people to like me or so as not to hurt their feelings. Their hurt feelings are not my problem if they derive from defensiveness where no offense exited.

[Minyatur]

Some said they would consume only meat that they would hunt themselves. I'm actually the other way around, I wouldn't eat meat if I had to kill for it. I consume meat simply because the "blood sacrifice" is already made and I don't think there is value in me abstaining from doing it. My sole consumption won't impact the market so whether I consume meat or not, the same amount of sufferings will occur. I have no intention of doing sensibilation on this subject with others which could with abstaining from eating meat have a real impact on the market. Once the animal is dead, the meat in itself is a 1D entity that desire to be consumed and not to rot away. If I were responsible for this whole earth, I'd probably make it vegetarian as I would be the one deciding whether there will be animals killed or not but as of now that is not the case.

I see myself to be here as a student of reality, that everything around me is God and needs to be seen and understood as such in all of it's ways. I do not wish for this planet to change or anything for myself, I think it is probably a fruitful place to gain awareness of love and light as entities can incarnate into so many different types of roles one after another. I do think despite all of it's darkness, this earth is probably as good a place in infinity as any other.

In the end, all that we all do is about how we feel. You feel things toward this thing, another feels other things toward other things. Even the most twisted individual is just you and me feeling life the way that entity feels it, making him twisted from our less twisted point of view.

[Monica]

Densities mean nothing

Right. So Ra talked about densities because...they were trying to trick us to see how gullible we are? ...or maybe they were really evil and delighted in giving us false information? ...or maybe they were just bored?

Reality exists for us to learn from it, not for us to to make it alike how we currently are.

Our actions and choices mean nothing? Free will is useless?