Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

[Minyatur]

I feel not responsible for the animal as I believe it is it's desired experience that is unfolding as the One Intelligent Infinity experiencing many-ness. 

You made a choice to eat an animal. You are responsible for your choice. The implications of your choices are debatable, not your responsibility in making them. 

How can you possibly know what the animals' desired experiences are? Because all is well, all is good, all is as it should be? Because all is the One Infinite Creator? Then you simply do nothing at all, and just float through existence doing whatever? If there is a One Infinite Creator, what would be the purpose of creating life forms that do nothing? If that was the case, why would Ra have talked to us at all?

Perhaps you are correct that the animals' desired experience here is to suffer and be food for humans. It doesn't matter what their desired experience is, it matters what yours is. Is your desired experience to ingest a being who suffered to be food for you, who didn't want to be slaughtered? This is YOUR choice, whatever the choices of the animals are. 

Even if you were some ridiculously advanced light being from a much higher octave, whose lightness of being was so far removed from physicality you could somehow inject love into every action regardless of what that action was. You would still be setting an example for 3D humans that enslaving, causing suffering to, and eating slaughtered animals is okay. Why not, as a light being, eat closer to light if you must eat: plants that photosynthesize. Plants that need to spread their seeds so attract animals to eat them? There is so much evidence that plants require this symbiosis, that they want to be food.

Everything anyone does changes everything. Ripples in a pond is a good visual. Even better: interference patterns. The double-slit experiment proves that just observing something affects it.  

My desire is to provide needed services rather than what service I wish to provide myself. I have not much desires for my own self and in turn perceive my existence as responding that what needs it. I'd agree about the double-slit experiment portraying that the desired experience of the animal is in turn a response to another desire from another observer or other-self. I think that is the nature of reality in which freedom lies. Complementary desires manifesting themselves.

I might become vegetarian at some point but it would not be as a desire for myself. I'd polarize accordingly to my environment which for exemple this thread is part of. I do not think is it needed but that it will be part of my callings at some point which seems not to be the case now.

[Monica]

I think that veganism is an admirable choice and applaud people who make that choice. Nowhere do I say anything to the contrary. But to focus on a single issue like veganism again and again and to use the Law of One to justify your position that it is the only moral choice is a narrow view that borders on fundamentalism.

There is also a larger picture to look at, and Minyataur is hinting at it here. If we are going to look to the Law of One to guide our moral choices then we have to accept all that Ra says. We have to accept that we have a narrow and limited perspective of a universe in which an infinite and eternal drama is unfolding. All of us are playing a part, we offer second density entities the catalyst that will allow them individuate into third density and they offer us the catalyst that will help us to grow in compassion. When that catalyst is no longer required it will disappear, but until then trying to suppress that catalyst is putting the cart before the horse and is a disservice for all involved.

The militant vegan attitude that we are all familiar with is a reaction to that catalyst as well and shows that there is still work to be done in that area if one is sincere about their desire to seek the path of balanced growth.

How can we expect the planet to shift to 4D, when WE are contributing to the oppression and suffering of sentient beings?

Good question! How would you answer it? Or do you claim to live a life that is completely free of any contribution to the exploitation or oppression of any sentient beings?

How can we 'put our own house in order' when WE are directly adding to the problem, by buying meat and dairy?

This is a loaded question since you are arguing from a perceived moral high ground. You've already decided that you are in the right and are therefore free to paint meat and dairy eaters with a broad brush as self-serving and lacking in compassion.

Classic fundamentalist tactic and a direct act of separation.

How can we be concerned about lobbyists, when WE are adding to the demand for animal products ourselves?

By educating the population and encouraging them to think for themselves. By supporting your local farmers and returning the means of production to the small farmer.

I find this statement particular ironic:

If we are going to look to the Law of One to guide our moral choices then we have to accept all that Ra says. 

That is precisely what I sought to do, with this thread: Show what Ra has said about the consciousness of mind-body complexes, ie. higher 2D entities, ie. animals.


It is these statements by Ra that have been consistently ignored...and continue to be ignored. They, along with the statements about choice and polarity, are glossed over, in favor of more 'feel good' statements by Ra. 

Actual discussion of what Ra said is ignored, in favor of accusing the vegans of being moralizing, militant, etc.

At the end of the day, I'd rather be accused of moralizing, than of CAUSING suffering to sentient beings. Because that IS what is happening, when one chooses to eat meat or dairy. It can be glossed over all day, but that uncomfortable fact remains.

You can call that moralizing all you want. So be it.

So here we are, 5 pages and 121 posts later, and still very little discussion about the actual topic. But at least, up until now, it hadn't degenerated yet.


Ah well, I guess it was too good to be true.

...

[Minyatur]

The LOO is something applicable to everything in all densities of existence so it is rather hard to speak of "good and bad" and remaining on a particular subject. In my opinion the discord lies in the fact that Ra speaks of the Law of One which is above him but also speaks of the STO path which he is currently in. The LOO transcends the STO path which is only a portion or distortion of it just as the STS path is. Ra often says that there are distortions in his words as he himself is not undistorted and not all knowing and also distortions from the working group which had messages for them to receive.

In a way the STO path evolution applies to many but it also has an end and is not absolute in itself. It is only an offered path which each entity has the choice to follow for a small portion of Infinity or do otherwise. Everyone is in a different stage of their own ever-lasting growth, so you can't expect everyone to focus on the same lessons in my opinion.

From a 3D STO polarization's perpective, one can eat meat and be havestable from this 3D in a STO manner. One aspect of someone does not define his whole existence, it is a blending of many other things.

[Monica]

The LOO is something applicable to everything in all densities of existence so it is rather hard to speak of "good and bad" and remaining on a particular subject. In my opinion the discord lies in the fact that Ra speaks of the Law of One which is above him but also speaks of the STO path which he is currently in. The LOO transcends the STO path which is only a portion or distortion of it just as the STS path is. Ra often says that there are distortions in his words as he himself is not undistorted and not all knowing and also distortions from the working group which had messages for them to receive.

In a way the STO path evolution applies to many but it also has an end and is not absolute in itself. It is only an offered path which each entity has the choice to follow for a small portion of Infinity or do otherwise. Everyone is in a different stage of their own ever-lasting growth, so you can't expect everyone to focus on the same lessons in my opinion.

From a 3D STO polarization's perpective, one can eat meat and be havestable from this 3D in a STO manner. One aspect of someone does not define his whole existence, it is a blending of many other things.

Yeah, sure, why not just go ahead and rape and murder humans too then?

[Minyatur]

The LOO is something applicable to everything in all densities of existence so it is rather hard to speak of "good and bad" and remaining on a particular subject. In my opinion the discord lies in the fact that Ra speaks of the Law of One which is above him but also speaks of the STO path which he is currently in. The LOO transcends the STO path which is only a portion or distortion of it just as the STS path is. Ra often says that there are distortions in his words as he himself is not undistorted and not all knowing and also distortions from the working group which had messages for them to receive.

In a way the STO path evolution applies to many but it also has an end and is not absolute in itself. It is only an offered path which each entity has the choice to follow for a small portion of Infinity or do otherwise. Everyone is in a different stage of their own ever-lasting growth, so you can't expect everyone to focus on the same lessons in my opinion.

From a 3D STO polarization's perpective, one can eat meat and be havestable from this 3D in a STO manner. One aspect of someone does not define his whole existence, it is a blending of many other things.

Yeah, sure, why not just go ahead and rape and murder humans too then?

We both are doing it as other-selves are we not?

[Monica]

We both are doing it as other-selves are we not?

We are showering as other-selves too, but we still shower, right?

So the question is: Why not just go ahead and do it, as self?

[Minyatur]

We both are doing it as other-selves are we not?

We are showering as other-selves too, but we still shower, right?

So the question is: Why not just go ahead and do it, as self?

Does not seem to be my given role as of now. I might have done it in past lives more than I could ever phantom now though.

[Minyatur]

Your wish for this world to be without the slaughtering of these animals being denied is a reason for it to exist. As Diania said only being an observer is partaking in what creates the said reality, how you're being confronted to this as your own needed experiences is partaking in creating this set of experiences.

[Monica]

Your wish for this world to be without these kind of experiences being denied is a reason for it to exist.

You are missing the point. I don't disagree with you about why such things exist. I also don't disagree about the perspective from the higher densities, the soul choosing experiences, how all things serve the One, etc. etc.

However, by choosing to focus only on those 'higher' aspects, CHOICE is neglected.

We have choice. We can choose whether to take a shower, whether to watch tv, or browse the internet, or post on this forum. We can choose what to wear in the morning...and what to eat.

Our ancestors didn't have that choice. Some people in poverty-stricken areas, or in 3rd world countries, or who live in the cold, remote areas of wilderness, also don't have that choice.

But I would venture to say that pretty much everyone here at B4, who has a computer, probably has some choice as to what they buy and eat.

We have the choice as to whether or not to rape and kill a human. If we were discussing that, how many people would say "Oh it doesn't matter...do as you will...the rape victim probably needed that experience"?

If someone started a thread about a project to help end human starvation, or end human sex trafficking, would other members then accuse them of being 'moralizing' or 'controlling'?

Now, taking it a step further, what if rape and murder of humans was socially acceptable, and most of the members here engaged in those behaviors on a daily basis?

I've made the case in post #1 that there really isn't much difference between a late-2D entity and a 3D entity. No one has refuted anything I said about that, in regards to Ra's statements about 2D consciousness.

And yet, people get all uptight if the torture and slaughter of higher 2D entities is compared to the rape and killing of a 3D entity.

Why?

Because it's socially acceptable to participate in the torture and slaughter of higher 2D entities.

NOT because it's ethical, because it isn't. Not for any other reason, really, except that most of the people here DO IT themselves.

That's the only difference.

Slavery and bigotry were once socially acceptable too.

So, it's not about whether I would prefer a peaceful planet. Projecting the blame onto me, implying that it is my non-acceptance of atrocities that keeps them in existence, continues to miss the point, which is this:

I am talking to the very people who are continuing to support these atrocities, and who have the power to change it. 

NOT talking about what's going on in Africa or Iraq, that we aren't directly involved in, but about something we all do every single day: Eat.

Our choices, collectively, DO make an impact. 

You, as an individual, might not save a particular cow, but collectively, the more of us who make a compassionate choice, will save many, many cows. Not only their physical bodies, but, as was discussed in earlier posts, we might even have a profound effect on their polarity.

Apparently, that just doesn't matter to most people here. This thread is starting to degenerate into more of the same defensiveness about eating animals that is found on all the other meat threads. This wasn't intended to be about eating meat, specifically, though that is a component of the topic. It was intended to be about the consciousness of 2D entities, and how we affect their evolution.

Saying that we have no responsibility at all, and that nothing matters, at all, ever, just doesn't cut it for me. That implies that we might as well go out and rape and murder humans too, by that logic...why not? They aren't much different from higher 2D entities, and they aren't even different at all in their capacity to feel pain, fear and grief. Yet when I ask that question, no one wants to say that it's ok to rape and kill humans, and some are offended at the comparison. Why? 

Ra answers the call of 2D entities, while students of Ra continue to defend their habit of supporting an industry that tortures and slaughters those very same entities.

Does no one else see the absurdity of this?  

[Minyatur]

Ra answers the call of 2D entities, while students of Ra continue to defend their habit of supporting an industry that tortures and slaughters those very same entities.

Does no one else see the absurdity of this?  

Well I guess you are more likely to be of Ra than those who do not feel like you. I do not consider myself a student of Ra necessarely, let's say he made the best source of information avaiable on this sphere.

The question is indeed why does this meat eating even happen with how much atrocious it is? Well for the same reason STS exists, it is a needed experience. 

STS has two roles in itself in Creation. One being to deny desires to others-selves as the other-selves needed experiences. The other being the fufilling of the negative polarized entity to fufill it's own desire as a needed experience. 

STO does the very same as it tries deny STS desires and fufill STO desires.

The duality of it creates many-ness exploring their needed experiences and as such even a STO entity creates the need of there being animal slaughtering in order to be confronted to it. 

[Minyatur]

How do you perceive what 7D is? In my opinion the answer to why the others act as they do lies in understanding 7D as it is a density that transcends desiring to act a certain way.

Reality is never wrong as it is the One, only a subjective perception of it can be wrong. 7D is only a greater awareness of what we are, you change not into something else.

In my opinion, awareness of a 7D degree simply reveils that all our lives we have always been playing only our given roles in needed experiences of self and other-selves whatever the way. All that happened was needed to reach the awareness of it for self just as other-selves. At this point an entity would lose it's individuality to have desires to shape Creation to instead only provide the needed experiences that other-selves need, without desires of itself to go through a certain polarity of experiences. Hence a planetary Logos can become mixed sphere such as this one since they are not the ones playing the tug-of-war polarity game to only be a certain polarity.

[Monica]

Ra answers the call of 2D entities, while students of Ra continue to defend their habit of supporting an industry that tortures and slaughters those very same entities.

Does no one else see the absurdity of this?  

Well I guess you are more likely to be of Ra than those who do not feel like you. I do not consider myself a student of Ra necessarely, let's say he made the best source of information avaiable on this sphere.

Ah, ok. This is a forum that started out as a place to study the Ra Material.

The question is indeed why does this meat eating even happen with how much atrocious it is?

That is a good question, but it isn't the question I'm asking in this particular thread.

A pertinent question, in the context of the focus of this thread is: Why participate in the atrocity when Ra answers their call?

Again, what seems to keep getting lost is that we're not talking about something happening on the other side of the planet, that we have no control over. We're not talking about 'accepting' that in a dark alley somewhere on the other side of town, someone is getting killed by a paid assassin.

We're talking about US paying the assassin.

Aside from issues of imminent survival, how is that congruent with the STO path?

(Disclaimer: NOT talking about self-defense...NOT talking about survival...I'm referring to "I like bacon!")

Well for the same reason STS exists, it is a needed experience. 

STS has two roles in itself in Creation. One being to deny desires to others-selves as the other-selves needed experiences. The other being the fufilling of the negative polarized entity to fufill it's own desire as a needed experience. 

STO does the very same as it tries deny STS desires and fufill STO desires.

The duality of it creates many-ness exploring their needed experiences and as such even a STO entity creates the need of there being animal slaughtering in order to be confronted to it. 

Ra stated that they were biased towards STO, and were here to answer the call of STO-oriented entities. Presumably, if most members here are STO-oriented, then the question of unnecessarily participating in the obviously STS treatment of sentient other-selves, is a valid question.

[Minyatur]

Ah, ok. This is a forum that started out as a place to study the Ra Material.

Well there's not much that can speak to a wanderer as much as the Ra material. I am grateful to this material and do study it as it speaks to me and seem accurate in many ways. But I perceive this more as synchronicities of rememberance rather than being a student of Ra. It can happen with many other materials and the Toth tablets made me resonate more strongly for exemple. Thoth though is much worse than Ra about this Light/Darkness war.

The question is indeed why does this meat eating even happen with how much atrocious it is?

That is a good question, but it isn't the question I'm asking in this particular thread.

A pertinent question, in the context of the focus of this thread is: Why participate in the atrocity when Ra answers their call?

Again, what seems to keep getting lost is that we're not talking about something happening on the other side of the planet, that we have no control over. We're not talking about 'accepting' that in a dark alley somewhere on the other side of town, someone is getting killed by a paid assassin.

We're talking about US paying the assassin.

Aside from issues of imminent survival, how is that congruent with the STO path? 

(Disclaimer: NOT talking about self-defense...NOT talking about survival...I'm referring to "I like bacon!")

Well for the same reason STS exists, it is a needed experience. 

STS has two roles in itself in Creation. One being to deny desires to others-selves as the other-selves needed experiences. The other being the fufilling of the negative polarized entity to fufill it's own desire as a needed experience. 

STO does the very same as it tries deny STS desires and fufill STO desires.

The duality of it creates many-ness exploring their needed experiences and as such even a STO entity creates the need of there being animal slaughtering in order to be confronted to it. 

Ra stated that they were biased towards STO, and were here to answer the call of STO-oriented entities. Presumably, if most members here are STO-oriented, then the question of unnecessarily participating in the obviously STS treatment of sentient other-selves, is a valid question.

In my view if most wanderers are of 6D, they are here also to perceive the limits of their path and feel the need of the lessons of 7D. I think the more incarnations a wanderer has on this sphere, the less he will try to have an impact on the polarization of the sphere as he will have provided in past incarnations much positive polarity while taking himself understanding of negative polarity through experiences.

[Monica]

Well there's not much that can speak to a wanderer as much as the Ra material. I am grateful to this material and do study it as it speaks to me and seem accurate in many ways. But I perceive this more as synchronicities of rememberance rather than being a student of Ra.

Agreed!

In my view if most wanderers are of 6D, they are here also to perceive the limits of their path and feel the need of the lessons of 7D. I think the more incarnations a wanderer has on this sphere, the less he will try to have an impact on the polarization of the sphere as he will have provided in past incarnations much positive polarity while taking himself understanding of negative polarity through experiences.

I could easily counter that with "A 6D Wanderer wouldn't be participating in the needless slaughter of higher 2D entities."

It's convenient to say "I am 6D so I don't need to try to impact the planet" or even imply that those trying to make a positive contribution to the planet must be 'only 4D' and 'lacking wisdom'.

Perhaps any of those are true...perhaps none...None of us knows for sure what density we're from, so it's all moot.

Regardless, if I was mainly interested in trying to make an impact on the planet, I wouldn't be wasting my time here. My time would be much better spent doing a pay-per-view of slaughterhouse videos on college campuses.

Here is the point that continually gets lost: Making a compassionate choice isn't the same as 'trying to save the world.' The point has been made by others here, repeatedly, that they don't feel the need to quit eating animals because they are somehow 'above' trying to 'save the world' and it is 'lacking wisdom' to try to answer the call of the oppressed.

That falls short in 2 ways:

1. Even Ra answers the call of both 2D and 3D entities
2. Even if one doesn't feel 'called' to any sort of activism, that doesn't justify actually participating in the oppression and cruelty.

...

[Minyatur]

Well it's still the end of the path, so it's a matter if you're at the point of becoming aware of it or not.

If someone were to ask Ra if he should stop fufilling his desire to eat meat, this would probably be Ra's answer :

" I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will."

I'd say the consonant with the Law of One is more about consonant with their polarity or distortions as part of the Law of One.

Ra will most likely be up there thinking "please stop having this desire, please stop having this desire".

[Monica]

Did you miss this part?

suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will

[Minyatur]

Well it's still the end of the path, so it's a matter if you're at the point of becoming aware of it or not.

?

The end of the path is the One Intelligent Infinity which is making all of this happen. All is One means All are the source to All experiences.

Monica

---

Did you miss this part?

suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will

This is said to those who wish to encourage the overcoming of desires.

"We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except..."

[Monica]

This is said to those who wish to encourage the overcoming of desires.

"We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except..."

Key word except. It's an exception. What is an exception? If it's incongruent with the Law of One.

Using the imagination to fulfill one's desires, rather than acting on them, preserves free will.

Whose free will?

Apparently, the free will of the other-self who would be affected if the person acted on those desires that affected other-selves against their free will.

Good examples would include: A sudden impulse to rape and murder someone. Surely you aren't suggesting that Ra would say to go ahead and do that?

My interpretation of the quote is that Ra is making it clear that in cases wherein the desire would result in violating the free will of an other-self, thus resulting in polarizing STS, then a preferable alternative would be to use the imagination to satisfy the desire, thus preserving the free will of both self and other-self, while remaining consonant with one's own orientation and the Law of One.

Polarizing has to be taken into consideration...all of Ra's words have to be correlated...context matters.

Do you have an alternate interpretation of this quote? If not the other-self who is affected, then whose free will is Ra referring to? and, if not the effects on polarity, then how does one determine whether some choice is 'consonant with the Law of One' or not?

[Minyatur]

Actually if you perceive that "encouraging the overcoming of desires" is a desire in itself, the quote can make even less sense as desires should not be overcome.

I have a strong belief free will can not be infrindged uppon even if it seems so. There is only experiencing accomodation from other-selves or denial of our own desires by other-selves, both being needed in themselves.

I interpret the quote as saying that to overcome desires, they need to be experienced and analyzed else they will simply pop-out in a different space/time. Imagination is a good alternative as the astral planes are not any different then this space/time. This reality is also a dream of one kind.

But if there are only needed experiences and that what is not needed always fall away, how do you decide which choices are good? Is not providing the needed experience the right choice rather than wanting the Whole to be like us? A positive entity can only provide it's services to what needs it just as a negative entity can only provide it's services to what needs it. That is the Law of One, that is the illusion of polarity. The essence of a Logos is awareness of this, what needs to happen will always happen. Service to All come in both polarities just as the Earth can give life but also take it.

[Night Owl]

Having read the entire thread I feel something must be said. First thanks for sharing tips on making the transition to vegetarian easier. I am trying to change my habits slowly. As Minyatur said I may someday become one too and you may be one of the reason for it. The only thing thats bugs me a little is to apprehend the future thinking eating may no longer be a pleasure but rather a task to fulfill and makes it hard to have a strong will. I agree with most of what you said. But here is what I find lacking with all the discussion so far. Assuming you started this thread in an STO purpose being that you wish to understand other people different than you and not trying to make everybody feel bad about themselves, the inevitable ending of all this is either you understanding them or not. If you don't understand it can only be out of refusal or everybody else is lacking in expressing themselves. Though Minyatur's statement's seems harsh and detached they do leave the specific hints you need to understand them. I get that you don't seem that concerned with all that density talk. But on a more concrete point of view here is an undeniable truth. Having complete control over your alimentation is something difficult to achieve. For some it is a lack of will, for others a lack of money, time or cooking skills. I myself find I lack pretty much all of them except maybe will. As Minyatur pointed out, your focus on your alimentation is something good but some would say you lack focus on other things. I'd say it is simply irrealistic to hope that everybody has alimentation as their central focus of will and energy. Some have prerequisites that makes it easier for them than others and human nature tends to make them work on things they find easier. One thing I do agree with Minyatur and that you will most likely have to accept eventually is that if all that slaughter exist, therefore there is a need for it as harsh as it sounds. For some it may be just the catalyst they need to get to 3D. The resistance you encounter in this thread exactly point out that this is YOUR needed catalyst to understand the other B4 members else you would not encounter such resistance. Being STO is all about acceptance and love, and not division and moralization. Minyatur's words may seem a little out of this world but the purpose for this is only for you to realize that being a wanderer here isn't about changing the earth but more about understanding it and that's where he's bringing you with the 7D. Sure there is a polarization work going on but you can't expect all wanderers to focus on the exact same things as they receive different catalysts through their lifetime that leads them to other fields of work. Minyatur for exemple seems to be all about being a mediator between opposite party's and not a useless being as you may have caught yourself thinking for a second. He brings really good hindsights about STS's purpose in this universe that even Ra can't cover as he has distortion towards STO path and probably has a very weak understanding of them himself and as Minyatur said Ra himself is gonna have to learn and accept more about the STS path for reaching 7D. Being a wanderer doesn't make us perfect humans and you should accept that you worry more than some about that and less than others about other stuff. The fact is as Ra said himself, early worlds didn't have freewill and it didn't bring much to the universe. Therefore having those kind of experience can only mean that those needed experience may reinforce light/love in the future/next octave/universe or final state of existence. From this point, wheter you accept it or not only depends if you are ready to accept the subjectivity of your perception. Do not misjudge anybody here, your kindness is still very much appreciated on this forum as it must be for those around you and specially the animals. People like you are still much needed because one day those catalyst won't be needed anymore and you will have been part of this change. Just appreciate that other wanderer's will be part of other changes that you cannot perceive as of now and that is what ALL IS WELL means.

[Monica]

I get that you don't seem that concerned with all that density talk.

No, it's that it is simply another topic and should be discussed in its own thread, not here.

But on a more concrete point of view here is an undeniable truth. Having complete control over your alimentation is something difficult to achieve.

As you said yourself, you have an unusual situation. Throughout 5+ years of discussing this topic, I have always acknowledged that some people may have challenges when transitioning to a vegan diet. I have also acknowledged that there is a huge difference between eating 2D entities for survival, vs. for taste.

For most people, it's really not difficult at all to thrive on a vegan diet, and in fact their health dramatically improves. It isn't necessary to have 'complete control over alimentation' though in your case, it is more of an issue, most likely for the reasons I outlined previously. Many people still have health issues regardless of whether they eat meat or not, due to other factors such as pesticides, medications, environmental poisons, water, stress, genetics, and myriad other factors. (Hence, the epidemic rates of cancer and other diet-and-lifestyle-related diseases.) But the fact remains that, statistically, vegans have dramatically lower risk for all the major diseases. That, together with the ethical, spiritual, and environmental component, do make a compelling case in favor of working towards this transition.

Dr. Gabriel Cousens, MD has worked with thousands of people, and acknowledges that some people have trouble transitioning to a vegan diet, due to metabolic issues. He has worked with hundreds of such people, and claims to have a 100% success rate helping them adjust their diet, so that they can thrive.

100% success rate.

This includes hundreds of people who thought they couldn't be vegan, due to meat cravings, or digestive problems, or even 'unusual medical conditions' or whatever. 100% success rate. He did say that they must want to, for it to work.

It can be done, if the person chooses to. The rewards can be great.

But people don't want to, because they are taking a single quote from Ra that says animals are 2D, and using that to try to justify the fact that they like bacon and pizza.

And anyway, society says it's ok...well society says war is ok too.

For some it is a lack of will, for others a lack of money, time or cooking skills. I myself find I lack pretty much all of them except maybe will.

It's actually much cheaper to eat vegan than to buy meat and dairy. Meat and dairy are expensive.

Cooking, yes, there is a learning curve there.

Will is something that must be there, to make this change. To have the will to change, there must be a reason to change. In all the previous discussions, the argument was always: It doesn't matter if animals suffer because they're only 2D.

The entire point of this thread is to build the case that higher 2D entities are mind-body complexes, whose call is answered by our elders, who feel pain, fear, grief, and even complex, profound emotions, and who may develop a bias towards STS or STO while in 2D, and thus begin their path for 3D, and whose evolutionary path is directly influenced by how we treat them.

We do each have free will. Each person can decide for themselves what they want to do with this information. I am simply presenting the information.

if all that slaughter exist, therefore there is a need for it as harsh as it sounds.

That seems to be a focus in Minyatur's comments and I have never disagreed on that point. In this reality, there is duality. STS exists, yes. But there is also Choice. There are 2 paths. We can choose which path we wish to polarize to. Ah, but we are 6D and don't need to polarize! they say. That topic has been discussed in depth in other threads. Suffice to say that there is much disagreement as to whether polarizing is important for Wanderers while in 3D.

Regardless of the answer to that, I would say that, at the very least, Wanderers have got no business adding to the extreme suffering on this planet. If people don't feel a 'calling' to do any sort of activism while here, they don't wish to give a dollar to the homeless guy or volunteer in a soup kitchen, or try to answer the call of the oppressed, because they think that is somehow 'beneath' them since they are 6D, or because they think they aren't supposed to 'interfere' with all the craziness going on here, ok fine, whatever, BUT, at least don't add to it! At least, at the very least, don't add to the suffering by contributing to the torture and slaughter of your younger other-selves who are, right now, calling out for help as they thrash about in agony.

To knowingly do that, to have callous disregard for their agony, NOT because they have a digestive problem and are struggling with health issues, like you do (you who are an exception), but because they are simply too busy or too lazy to learn how to cook beans and rice, or because they 'like bacon' is just reprehensible, in my opinion.

To justify that contributing to this extreme suffering, while callously ignoring the calls for help, because they like the taste of meat and cheese, is incongruent with the STO path.

Then they say "oh that doesn't matter because I am above polarity." Again, fine, but here's what they are missing:

It IS congruent with the STS path.

So the joke's on them. They think they are 'not polarizing' because they are '6D and above that' but in fact they ARE polarizing - to STS!!! when they make a choice to close their heart, to decline an opportunity to choose compassion, and instead make choices based on SELF.

(Before anyone gets their panties in a bundle, let me clarify that I'm not saying the person will be polarized enough to graduate STS, ok? I mean, c'mon, that should be obvious. But each conscious choice we make does affect our polarity.)

Again, NOT talking about survival or health problems like you have, ok? I am talking about WHY I started this conversation.

Being STO is all about acceptance and love, and not division and moralization.

Being STO is ALSO about opening the heart. Being STS is about closing the heart. That little detail seems to be missed, in favor of telling the vegans "horrors! You have committed the unforgivable sin of moralizing!" while ignoring the little detail of their continued disregard for the suffering of other-selves that they themselves are contributing to.

Again, they don't want to open their hearts...they don't care about answering the call of higher 2D entities, fine, but at least they shouldn't kid themselves as though they were staying neutral...when they are in fact contributing to something very dark...something very bloody...something fraught with the ultimate act of control and domination: killing a sentient being against their will.

So these very same people, who admonish me for 'moralizing' are in fact participating in the ultimate act of control and domination. We're not having a contest here, but I'd say that is rather comical.

...for...what reason? Survival? No. Because they like bacon and pizza.

Matrix_drumr, I can tell that you are just trying to facilitate understanding. Thank you for that. I hope you find solutions to your digestive issues. Best wishes to you!

...

[Monica]

Someone just sent this to me privately:

Sadly, I don't think you received a single reply from anyone on that thread that really talked about the topic -- the consciousness of 2D entities as described by Ra.

[AnthroHeart]

My 2D dog is a naughty dog. He is very destructive. I have to keep him inside now, and let him out supervised because he tears up the underpinning on my home and escapes.

[Minyatur]

Someone just sent this to me privately:

Sadly, I don't think you received a single reply from anyone on that thread that really talked about the topic -- the consciousness of 2D entities as described by Ra.

It's hard to discuss something you've described well enough. I did say you were right about it.

[Monica]

It's hard to discuss something you've described well enough. I did say you were right about it.

Ah, indeed you did! Thank you for pointing that out!

---

[Monica]

duplicate

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[isis]

My 2D dog is a naughty dog. He is very destructive. I have to keep him inside now, and let him out supervised because he tears up the underpinning on my home and escapes.

Is that naughty or natural?

[AnthroHeart]

naughty. He's not usually like this.

[isis]

I think an animal wanting to escape captivity is natural rather than naughty. The fact that it hasn't always behaved that way I consider immaterial.

[AnthroHeart]

He's got 1/2 acre to run around in, so I figured he had enough space. It's wooded, so the wolfdog should have enjoyed his space. I am surprised he found out how to tear my vinyl siding apart.