Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

[Monica]

5. Bob Comis, former pig and sheep farmer. In late April of 2011, on his pasture-raised-and-grass-fed farm’s blog — a blog intended to communicate with his locavore customer base — pig and sheep farmer Bob Comis posted a sobering one-sentence personal reflection, entitled, “It Might Be Wrong to Eat Meat”:

“This morning, as I look out the window at a pasture quickly growing full of frolicking lambs, I am feeling very much that it might be wrong to eat meat, and that I might indeed be a very bad person for killing animals for a living.”

Fifteen months later, he posted an equally anguished but more substantial entry under the header, “The Grapple of Ethics”:

"When I think about the debate surrounding the ethics of eating meat, I often wonder why it is so difficult for meat eaters to admit that killing animals (to eat their flesh) is unethical? Truly, I cannot think of one sound ethical argument in favor of slaughtering animals for their meat."

Interesting that he realized this on his own. He has probably never read the Law of One!

Bob has bared his soul. He shares with us, his ongoing struggle:

The simplest way to put it is that slaughtering animals for their meat is a socially permissible ethical transgression. Societal permission does not make it ethical, it just makes it acceptable. Slavery was for centuries socially permissible (in spite of the fact that there was always a minority standing firmly against it). Did that make it any less unethical? I doubt anyone today would say yes.

As a pig farmer, I live an unethical life, shrouded in the justificatory trappings of social acceptance. There is more, even, than simple acceptance. There is actually celebration of the way I raise the pigs. Because I give the pigs lives that are as close to natural as is possible in an unnatural system, I am honorable, I am just, I am humane, while all the while behind the shroud, I am a slaveholder and a murderer. Looking head on, you can’t see it. Humanely raising and slaughtering pigs seems perfectly normal. In order to see the truth, you have to look askance, just like a pig does when it knows you are up to no good. When you see out of the corner of your eye, in the blurry periphery of your vision, you see that meat is indeed murder.

...What I do is wrong, in spite of its acceptance by nearly 95% of the American population. I know it in my bones, even if I cannot yet act on it. Someday it must stop. Somehow we need to become the sort of beings who can see what we are doing when we look head on, the sort of beings who don’t weave dark, damning shrouds to sustain, with acceptance and celebration, the grossly unethical. Deeper, much deeper, we have an obligation to eat otherwise.”

These are excerpts. See more interviews with former meat-dairy farmers at:
http://freefromharm.org/animal-products-...4Fyhs.dpuf

[Monica]

8. Helen Peppe grew up the youngest of nine children on a farm in Maine.

“I looked at the pile of decapitated bodies and thought of the stump in the woods and the heads around it, the expressions not of surprise, but fear, eyes wide open. What was the last thing they’d seen, part of a tree, grass, the axe, the next chicken in line? Did two of them remember their short baby chickhood where they’d been petted and loved? Did their brains show them pictures of a particular moment, pictures of the past and present? A future? I’d watched dogs, horses and pigs dream, their legs trotting in their sleep, their eyelids fluttering as they whined or grunted. Did chickens dream, too? I looked at the pile of decapitated bodies and knew I would not eat any of them, knew I would never eat any animal again because how could I eat anything that could enjoy attention or who might have dreams of her own?"

That sums it up: who might have dreams of her own...

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[Diana]

5. Bob Comis, former pig and sheep farmer. 
"When I think about the debate surrounding the ethics of eating meat, I often wonder why it is so difficult for meat eaters to admit that killing animals (to eat their flesh) is unethical? Truly, I cannot think of one sound ethical argument in favor of slaughtering animals for their meat."

This is what I don't understand here at B4 and never have, no matter how many counterpoints are raised. Why are so many members here in favor of this? I am not pointing the finger at anyone, but I am completely flummoxed over this. For consciously aware people who are compassionate, as the people here at B4 are, how is it possible to deny that killing animals for food is unethical? How is it possible to look into an animal's eyes and think this is okay?

[Minyatur]

5. Bob Comis, former pig and sheep farmer. 
"When I think about the debate surrounding the ethics of eating meat, I often wonder why it is so difficult for meat eaters to admit that killing animals (to eat their flesh) is unethical? Truly, I cannot think of one sound ethical argument in favor of slaughtering animals for their meat."

This is what I don't understand here at B4 and never have, no matter how many counterpoints are raised. Why are so many members here in favor of this? I am not pointing the finger at anyone, but I am completely flummoxed over this. For consciously aware people who are compassionate, as the people here at B4 are, how is it possible to deny that killing animals for food is unethical? How is it possible to look into an animal's eyes and think this is okay?

People do not necessarily feel their own personal goal or the meaning of this Universe to be totally positively polarized.  There is the One dreaming the illusion of experiences through many-ness, there is nothing that is not called for and there is surely no such thing as death in this game. Death is the loss of a connexion to a window which then has to remanifest itself elsewhere to carry on in it's own unique destiny. People are in space/time where the needed expeeriences for their time/space self is created. You are not a positive being nor a negative, you are the One with only a filter of subjectivity upon it's awareness. These different filters create the experience of many-ness but in these experiences there is not a single entity which you would not be through their paths. Not understanding an other-self is not understanding yourself as you are always both parties. Through the path of each member of B4 who carries on eating meat you are yourself doing it.

Some will feel their need to be here on this Earth to understand the meaning of STS in Creation, why is there? why is it useful? why is it good in the eyes of the One Intelligent Infinity which is my Most-Highest Self? STO is not better than STS, they both are in my view a given role that has to be played. Accomodance is useful in given times just as resistance also is useful at other times. Take one away and spiritual growth of this Octave would lose it's meaning altogether. 

The One Intelligent Infinity is exploring it's desired experiences and there is no stopping it, there are only different roles played by the One Infinity to partake in it wether you are STS or STO. Whatever you do you are always experiencing and providing the needed experience for both parties. There are no mistakes, only growth toward awareness as the One Intelligent Infinity of Itself.

So why do I eat meat? Because I do not feel called to not be doing so. Why are other versions of me not eating meat? Because they feel called to do so.

[Monica]

So why do I eat meat? Because I do not feel called to not be doing so. Why are other versions of me not eating meat? Because they feel called to do so.

In an effort to understand you better, I have some questions for you, if you care to answer them:

1. Where does this 'call' come from?

2. How much does free will/choice matter?

3. Since (if I'm understanding you correctly) you don't feel any inclination to polarize STO or STS, then do our choices ever matter at all, in your view?

4. Did you watch the video I posted in the OP? There is a reason I'm asking this, relative to your comments.

[Monica]

People do not necessarily feel their own personal goal or the meaning of this Universe to be totally positively polarized.

The vast majority of the people on this planet who are opening their hearts to compassion and answering the call of the oppressed aren't doing it to polarize. They've never even heard of the Law of One and know nothing about polarization.

Knowing about polarizing doesn't preclude polarizing. It just isn't a prerequisite.

On the other hand, knowing about polarizing and then choosing the opposite of what is known to be polarizing...I wonder how that comes into play.

All choices contribute to polarizing, whether we want them to or not. If the choice is consciously made, then it contributes more than an unconscious choice. But choices matter all the same. We are, after all, in the density of Choice.

We can talk about 'there is no right or wrong in the higher densities' and 'nothing matters from the perspective of the Creator' all day long but that doesn't get us out of the density of Choice.

Right here, right now, in this density, we have choices. How do we respond when we hear the call of oppressed other-selves, whom we - WE, not someone else but WE - are directly impacting with OUR choices, not across the planet in a remote village somewhere, but right here, right now, and WE have the power to directly affect them?

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[Minyatur]

1. Where does this 'call' come from?

2. How much does free will/choice matter?

3. Since (if I'm understanding you correctly) you don't feel any inclination to polarize STO or STS, then do our choices ever matter at all, in your view?

4. Did you watch the video I posted in the OP? There is a reason I'm asking this, relative to your comments.

1. I'd say intuition. An increase in awareness led me to perceive that my whole life I've been playing the right role wether I've been acting STS or STO. I perceived that what is needed is not always what I want to give and that simply acting as part of a single path was a disbalancement to me as I perceived purpose in each. I do feel that at some point I might become vegetarian without resistance, it'll simply happen when the time is right as everything does including awakening.

2. In my opinion there is no such thing as not doing choices. Each repeated action, is a new choice. And free will to me is all there is. I perceive time as an illusion and that the path is built by it's end simultaneously. Our Higher-Selves or Oversoul are not changing their past, they are letting it be experienced, just as the One is. Wether it is us or an animal we all are Infinity, we are the One, we are Love and Light, we are the experiences that created Intelligent Infinity, each unique only through the path it took.

3. Evolution takes Infinity to happen for each and everyone of us. All will have to learn different lessons at different times. Thinking of choices do not seem to be part of mine as I am making them continuously and I do not feel them to be wrong. Honnestly while reading the Ra material I became convinced my purpose was to become a beacon of Light in this world but that simply didn't vibrate with me and it seemed lacking as I perceived how and when I was called to be otherwise. I usually analyze and understand how my choices make me feel and then try to understand if the feeling is right or not. STS and STO is not only in the big things, it is also in the small things, simply saying no to someone or even denying a desire of even a pet animal is STS in itself and has usually purpose in being.

4. I did and it made me think that if in the next year or two I stop eating meat, you'll most likely have played a big part in rendering this particular call more central to my given role just as society gave me the role of eating meat previously. I did not create human societies nor do I feel responsible to change them, nor do I feel them to be wrong. I think the state of this world is purposeful and willl prove fruitful in 4D STO as humanity will remember of all of it's various experiences and roles. They will perceive Oneness on a greater scale much faster which is also the purpose for wanderers into coming here. Opening oneself fully to love is of the 4D in spiritual evolution even if it doable in 3D. Question is, from where do you really want to harvest? 3D or higher?

[Monica]

Thank you for your responses, Minyatur!

[Monica]

Question is, from where do you really want to harvest? 3D or higher?

That seems to be a common question here, but I don't find it relevant. We can't just decide "Oh I like thinking I'm 5D or 6D better so I'll focus on that instead". Some of us are, presumably, Wanderers, but being a Wanderer doesn't negate the attributes of the density we are in now. Nor does opening the higher centers negate the importance of opening the heart.

On the contrary, it is possible to 'get stuck in the muck' while 'wanderering' here in 3D.

[Minyatur]

Question is, from where do you really want to harvest? 3D or higher?

That seems to be a common question here, but I don't find it relevant. We can't just decide "Oh I like thinking I'm 5D or 6D better so I'll focus on that instead". Some of us are, presumably, Wanderers, but being a Wanderer doesn't negate the attributes of the density we are in now. Nor does opening the higher centers negate the importance of opening the heart.

On the contrary, it is possible to 'get stuck in the muck' while 'wanderering' here in 3D.

I think I've been wandering for a while so I guess I don't mind being stuck in the muck. Wouldn't it simply be part of one's growth? You are here for your needed time in my opinion. When I tried to channel the reason why I was even wandering I perceived boredom and it felt like I simply had to be somewhere in space/time. I'm trying to figure out why it is this place in particular.

3D is also in my opinion about the veil which lets an entity gain a new perspective through the forgetting. I see it as useful whatever way it is used as it helps one learn about himself.

[Minyatur]

In my opinion wandering has more to do with understanding humans and their ways rather than to change this world. The positive impact is a byproduct of your learnings that your presence provide in return to what is provided to you.

[Monica]

In my opinion wandering has more to do with understanding humans and their ways rather than to change this world. The positive impact is a byproduct of your learnings that your presence provide in return to what is provided to you.

Is Ra 'trying to change the world' when they answer the call?

[Minyatur]

In my opinion wandering has more to do with understanding humans and their ways rather than to change this world. The positive impact is a byproduct of your learnings that your presence provide in return to what is provided to you.

Is Ra 'trying to change the world' when they answer the call?

With how much wanderers he sent on this sphere to polarize the planet positively and also work their imbalances seems the indicate it is the case, but that too would be part of his role and part of his spiritual growth as a 6D social/memory/complex. As above as bellow.

Here are some interesting Ra quotes :

18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

This would apply in my opinion to any stage of spiritual evolution, it is always the fufilling of desires that is the willpower that makes reality manifest. Be it a Logos, Ra, a human, a dog, a rock. 

---

12.26 Questioner: Thank you. Well, you spoke of Wanderers. Who are Wanderers? Where do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Imagine, if you will, the sands of your shores. As countless as the grains of sand are the sources of intelligent infinity. When a social memory complex has achieved its complete understanding of itsdesire, it may conclude that its desire is service to others with the distortion towards reaching their hand, figuratively, to any entities who call for aid. These entities whom you may call the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow move towards this calling of sorrow. These entities are from all reaches of the infinite creation and are bound together by the desire to serve in this distortion.

Even Ra calls these desires a distortion.

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12.3 Questioner: Is there any effort by the Confederation to stop the Orion chariots from arriving here?

Ra: I am Ra. Every effort is made to quarantine this planet. However, the network of guardians, much like any other pattern of patrols on whatever level, does not hinder each and everyentity from penetrating quarantine, for if request is made in light/love, the Law of One will be met with acquiescence. If the request is not made, due to the slipping through the net, then there is penetration of this net.

Interesting quote about negative entities that can penetrate the quarantine if their request is made in light/love, same process Ra has to go through but totally different consequences yet still good in the eyes of Intelligent Infinity. I've wondered if the slipping part is actually true or Ra was simply unaware of how an entity got in, negative entities are creature that love to create misunderstandings in others, playing the devil. There's a few things like this I suspected like when Ra says negative entities do infrindge upon, wherehas if he makes mistakes and mess things up himself it is not infridgement. To me it sounds delusional to think having good intentions is what makes something not infrindgement. It would make more sense for me to think that Ra understands not the Light/Love in the presence of that entity.

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7.17 Questioner: I’m trying to understand how a group such as the Orion group would progress. I was of the opinion that a closer understanding of the Law of One created the condition of acceptability moving say from our third density to the fourth in our transition now, and I’m trying to understand how it would be possible, if you were in the Orion group, and pointed toward self-service, how you would progress, say, from the third density to the fourth. What learning would be necessary for that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of length for this instrument at this time.

You will recall that we went into some detail as to how those not oriented towards seeking service for others yet, nevertheless, found and could use the gateway to intelligent infinity. This is true at all densities in our octave. We cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or octave of beingness. This is, however, true of this octave of densities. The beings are harvested because they can see and enjoy the light/love of the appropriate density. Those who have found this light/love, love/light without benefit of a desire for service nevertheless, by the Law of Free Will, have the right to the use of that light/love for whatever purpose. Also, it may be inserted that there are systems of study which enable the seeker of separation to gain these gateways.

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. The distortion lies in the fact that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve other is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One.

That's the quote I was looking for a while, Ra stating himself that both polarities are the same thing. Not seen from his eyes though, but still a fact he knows.

[Monica]

That's the quote I was looking for a while, Ra stating himself that both polarities are the same thing. Not seen from his eyes though, but still a fact he knows.

Minyatur, I don't disagree with that at all. But that doesn't mean that both paths are the same, from the perspective of those who are traversing that path.

The 'both paths are valid' quotes should, in my opinion, be correlated with the 'polarizing' quotes, to get a full picture of what Ra is teaching us about the Law of One.

That is beyond the scope of this thread, though. Perhaps you might want to start a new thread on that topic...?

Notice this part, from the quote you posted:

We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

Ra seems to be making very clear that it isn't consonant with the Law of One to go around killing other-selves, willy-nilly. That both paths are valid, doesn't give us carte blanche to oppress and slaughter other-selves.

At least not those of us on the STO path.

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[Minyatur]

We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

Ra seems to be making very clear that it isn't consonant with the Law of One to go around killing other-selves, willy-nilly. That both paths are valid, doesn't give us carte blanche to oppress and slaughter other-selves.

At least not those of us on the STO path.

---

I agree as it being for those of the STO path but if Ra is a 6D social/memory/complex his lessons don't lie so much in polarizing further in STO Love but to transcend to the next density above the illusion of polarity. As a significant portion of 6D wanderers of are him, to me it sounds like it's what he's doing currently. Sending on Earth those with too much excess love in a negative/positive environment among those they understand not to balance this distortion from the social/memory/complex. Wandering serves the social/memory/complex by bringing to it negative experiences to understand Oneness that it lacks. In turn you could say the negative state of polarization of the Earth is providing catalysts and services to Ra for which is he not yet grateful.

Anyway you are right that this is the wrong thread. I was trying to answer why not all will feel compelled by this calling because I think what is happening is not wrong in itself, only the fufilling of desires that need to be explored.

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

That is my positition, when it is not needed it will fall away as it always does.

[Monica]

I agree as it being for those of the STO path but if Ra is a 6D social/memory/complex his lessons don't lie so much in polarizing further in STO Love but to transcend to the next density above the illusion of polarity. As a significant portion of 6D wanderers of are him, to me it sounds like it's what he's doing currently. Sending on Earth those with too much excess love in a negative/positive environment among those they understand not to balance this distortion from the social/memory/complex. Wandering serves the social/memory/complex by bringing to it negative experiences to understand Oneness that it lacks. In turn you could say the negative state of polarization of the Earth is providing catalysts and services to Ra for which is he not yet grateful.

Anyway you are right that this is the wrong thread. I was trying to answer why not all will feel compelled by this calling because I think what is happening is not wrong in itself, only the fufilling of desires that need to be explored.

I will answer only in the context of this topic:

Firstly, it is a presumption that most people here at B4 are 6D Wanderers. I question that presumption. I contend that it is, more often than not, used as a cop-out. (Not saying you personally...just generalizing here.) Some might think they know which density from whence they came, and many might assume that it's 6D because it's nice to think we're part of Ra, but being that All is One anyway, we don't necessarily have to be part of Ra, to resonate with the Law of One.

Regardless, even if we are 6D Wanderers, there are multiple possible reasons why we might have chosen to Wander here. This has been covered in another thread so I won't go into that. But suffice to say that there were multiple reasons given.

But even IF one is 6D AND they don't have any special mission to help the planet, but are just here as an observer, or, at most, just here to radiate light by being who they are, even IF those conditions are all true, that just means that they might not feel a compulsion to volunteer at soup kitchens or donate money to starving children in Africa...ok got it...but that does NOT provide a justification for actually causing harm to others.

Do you see the distinction?

Not actively working to help the planet isn't the same thing as actively harming others.

It is a common attempt at justification: "I am a 6D Wanderer...it's not my mission to help anyone."

I question that. But ok, fine, if they are, that still doesn't justify actually adding to the problem, by actively participating in the oppression of other-selves.

Furthermore, that a 6D Wanderer would knowingly add to said oppression, makes no sense whatsoever.

It seems to me that many people want to have it both ways...to make excuses for oppressing other-selves ("I'm in 3D and that's just what is done here..." shrug) while, at the same time, claiming to be 'above' the lowly 3D task of opening the heart ("I don't need to have compassion because I am above all that") which is absurd, to claim to be 'above' compassion but not 'above' oppressing/harming/killing/eating younger other-selves??? Say, what?

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[native]

For consciously aware people who are compassionate, as the people here at B4 are, how is it possible to deny that killing animals for food is unethical?

Without delving into ethics, or what may or may not be wrong regarding the issue specifically, perhaps it's best to consider the idea of unconsciousness and consciousness, and how one moves from one to the other.

[Minyatur]

I agree as it being for those of the STO path but if Ra is a 6D social/memory/complex his lessons don't lie so much in polarizing further in STO Love but to transcend to the next density above the illusion of polarity. As a significant portion of 6D wanderers of are him, to me it sounds like it's what he's doing currently. Sending on Earth those with too much excess love in a negative/positive environment among those they understand not to balance this distortion from the social/memory/complex. Wandering serves the social/memory/complex by bringing to it negative experiences to understand Oneness that it lacks. In turn you could say the negative state of polarization of the Earth is providing catalysts and services to Ra for which is he not yet grateful.

Anyway you are right that this is the wrong thread. I was trying to answer why not all will feel compelled by this calling because I think what is happening is not wrong in itself, only the fufilling of desires that need to be explored.

I will answer only in the context of this topic:

Firstly, it is a presumption that most people here at B4 are 6D Wanderers. I question that presumption. I contend that it is, more often than not, used as a cop-out. (Not saying you personally...just generalizing here.) Some might think they know which density from whence they came, and many might assume that it's 6D because it's nice to think we're part of Ra, but being that All is One anyway, we don't necessarily have to be part of Ra, to resonate with the Law of One.

Regardless, even if we are 6D Wanderers, there are multiple possible reasons why we might have chosen to Wander here. This has been covered in another thread so I won't go into that. But suffice to say that there were multiple reasons given.

But even IF one is 6D AND they don't have any special mission to help the planet, but are just here as an observer, or, at most, just here to radiate light by being who they are, even IF those conditions are all true, that just means that they might not feel a compulsion to volunteer at soup kitchens or donate money to starving children in Africa...ok got it...but that does NOT provide a justification for actually causing harm to others.

Do you see the distinction?

Not actively working to help the planet isn't the same thing as actively harming others.

It is a common attempt at justification: "I am a 6D Wanderer...it's not my mission to help anyone."

I question that. But ok, fine, if they are, that still doesn't justify actually adding to the problem, by actively participating in the oppression of other-selves.

Furthermore, that a 6D Wanderer would knowingly add to said oppression, makes no sense whatsoever.

It seems to me that many people want to have it both ways...to make excuses for oppressing other-selves ("I'm in 3D and that's just what is done here..." shrug) while, at the same time, claiming to be 'above' the lowly 3D task of opening the heart ("I don't need to have compassion because I am above all that") which is absurd, to claim to be 'above' compassion but not 'above' oppressing/harming/killing/eating younger other-selves??? Say, what?

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Ra said that most wanderers are of 6D so I suspect most wanderers on this forum to be 6D. Not necessarily part of Ra but still of 6D. 

I'd agree that most probably prior to incarnating, higher selves would believe they would do no such thing but that is part of the veiled experience. Earth is a slaughter experience factory to 2D and 3D, it's part of the experiences provided by this world, no one asked souls to incarnate here, they simply do. And wanderers partaking in it will take back up there the experience of doing what they "hate".

As I stated before I feel not responsible for the animal as I believe it is it's desired experience that is unfolding as the One Intelligent Infinity experiencing many-ness. In a sense to me All is One also means that I am myself that animal incarnating for the purpose of that experience in order to rejoin at some point with my current line of experience through the first common Logos we will both have reached in degree of awareness. These horrible experiences add up to the Higher Self of the animal and so-on all the way up to Intelligent Infinity defining the intelligence of Love and Light. It is not wasted, it is not unlike Love and Light, it is an equal part of the process. Even if I'm eating meat I am still more positively polarized than negatively and thus have a positive impact on this sphere even if I do not feel the need to do so in every single one of my deeds. I can partake in the negativity in certain aspect of my life too when I feel called for it and I do not perceive it as wrong in this Universe.

[Night Owl]

Hi, i just jumped in the thread and this is my first post on this forum. I don't know if my opinion is something you already encountered or not but I thought sharing it might help you understand a minority amongs meat eaters. For my part I do eat meat and I am fully aware of what is done to most animals in the industry. This has led me to refine my consumer's habits. I instead buy biological meat that is not bred in hostile, stressfull and unhealthy environnement. Still it is meat but so far this is the only contribution i could bring to my habits as I encounter a major problem with becoming vegeterian. I simply dislike( to the point of instant throw up) almost every vegetable and half of the existing fruits. For the vegetable only, I'd say the ones I can eat I still don't find them enjoyable but more like bearable if you prefer. I found very few recipe that can follow those criterias. I agree the body doesnt NEED meat but I'd say this is mostly true for a majority but some people after having their body conditioned to eat meat for most of their lives have found their system not being able to do the transition to vegetarian. I can say myself I feel my stomach to be a little weird after eating a full meal of vedgetables as my body probably has developped very few bacterias to digest them. I don't consider my eating habits as containing that much meat but I'll admit I have a poor diet because of the previous reasons. Still I love animals and feel a strong connection with them, maybe even more than humans. I have no bad intentions whatsoever on the situation my body is simply really resitant with the ingestion of vedgetables. What does that make me? A monster? Should I put animals in priority and let myself die because it seems unethical from a 3D perspective?

[Monica]

Hi, i just jumped in the thread and this is my first post on this forum. I don't know if my opinion is something you already encountered or not but I thought sharing it might help you understand a minority amongs meat eaters.

Hi matrix_drumr! Thank you for sharing your experience. First, let me assure you that I don't think you are a 'monster'! I have no judgment towards you. You are doing what you need to do to survive, just as our ancestors did what they needed to do to survive. There is a huge difference between eating for survival, vs eating for taste, habit or custom, which accounts for the vast majority of meat consumption.

There is also a huge difference between:

I would rather not kill animals but until I find a solution, I am eating meat because I need to survive

vs

I don't care about animals...they're just 2D anyway...and anyway...I like bacon!

Yes, this topic has been addressed. I for one do recognize that some people may have a difficult time transitioning to a plant-based diet, and have expressed, in past comments, that those with unusual medical conditions may even temporarily benefit from eating meat.

To clarify: Science shows us that the human body doesn't need meat. Many people might think they need it, but there isn't any biological need for it. All amino acids and other nutrients found in meat are readily found in plant foods. Even B12 can be synthesized by the human gut, given the proper bacteria. (But since most people now wash their produce, we are no longer getting that bacteria; hence the need for supplementation.)

So, it is my belief, based on the available science (including clinical studies of thousands of people who thought they couldn't be vegan but are now happy, healthy vegans, given the right education and resources), that even those with 'unusual medical conditions' can indeed thrive on a vegan diet. Science also shows us that animal protein is a powerful cancer-causing carcinogen. Being that 1 out of 3 women and 1 out of 2 men get diagnosed with cancer, this is something to take into consideration.

Having said all that, I do also recognize that humans have been eating animals for many thousands of years, and it has permeated our culture. Add to that, the junk food of the last century, and the result is that the human body is now bogged down with many years' worth of toxins accumulated. Switching to a plant-based diet isn't easy for everyone, because of these factors. We are in a transition, and some people experience more challenges during this transition. You are one of those.

For my part I do eat meat and I am fully aware of what is done to most animals in the industry. This has led me to refine my consumer's habits. I instead buy biological meat that is not bred in hostile, stressfull and unhealthy environnement. Still it is meat but so far this is the only contribution i could bring to my habits as I encounter a major problem with becoming vegeterian. I simply dislike( to the point of instant throw up) almost every vegetable and half of the existing fruits. For the vegetable only, I'd say the ones I can eat I still don't find them enjoyable but more like bearable if you prefer. I found very few recipe that can follow those criterias. I agree the body doesnt NEED meat but I'd say this is mostly true for a majority but some people after having their body conditioned to eat meat for most of their lives have found their system not being able to do the transition to vegetarian. I can say myself I feel my stomach to be a little weird after eating a full meal of vedgetables as my body probably has developped very few bacterias to digest them. I don't consider my eating habits as containing that much meat but I'll admit I have a poor diet because of the previous reasons. Still I love animals and feel a strong connection with them, maybe even more than humans. I have no bad intentions whatsoever on the situation my body is simply really resitant with  the ingestion of vedgetables. What does that make me? A monster? Should I put animals in priority and let myself die because it seems unethical from a 3D perspective?

No, you aren't a monster and No, you shouldn't sacrifice your own health. But, if you like, I am happy to assist you.

I think you are on the right track to figuring out why you're having such a reaction to plant foods. It likely does have to do with bacteria. I offer the following info, in the hopes that you may find it helpful. First, some background, which might explain why your body is reacting as it is:

Since the human body isn't designed to digest meat, meat tends to putrify in the colon. Carnivorous animals have very short digestive tracts, compared to the very long intestines of humans. Carnivores also have much stronger digestive enzymes. So the meat is pushed through their systems very quickly, and is soaked in strong enzymes capable of digesting even fur and bone.

The human digestive system lacks these tools, so the meat starts to rot while traversing the colon. This is why constipation and colon cancer are very common. (As a side note, Dr. Hiromi Shinya, co-inventor of the colonoscopy, states in his book The Enzyme Factor that, after doing 300,000 colonoscopies, he can tell by looking at a person's colon whether they have cancer...not just in the colon, but anywhere in the body. He has a near-100% success rate with healing cancer, with zero recurrences, explained in his book. But the point is that the state of the colon is crucial to health.)

So, what happens when plant foods, rich in fiber, are introduced after an entire lifetime of eating heavy, decaying animal flesh, accumulating toxins in the colon?

The sludge gets stirred up.

This is called detox. This can happen when eating fruits and veggies, or starting to take any sort of superfoods, like bluegreen algae, chlorella, spirulina, etc., or when drinking Electrolyzed Reduced Water. Any of these action steps, which are supposedly healthy, can result in detox.

Detox is when the accumulated toxins are getting stirred up faster than the body can eliminate them. Common detox symptoms include nausea, runny nose, skin rashes (the skin is an eliminative organ), bloating, alternating constipation and diarrhea, and even vomiting.

I've seen people throw up after drinking a single glass of my water. I've also seen them get the runs. I've seen people get sick after a couple of capsules of bluegreen algae. I have to help these people go very slowly...sometimes they even have to dilute the water, so their bodies don't dump decades' worth of toxins all at once.

My dad used to complain that he couldn't eat bananas because they gave him gas. I never understood that, at the time, but I do now. It wasn't the bananas...it was the high-meat diet that caused him to react to what should have been a normal, healthy food.

In other words, it isn't the fruits and veggies that are the problem, but the accumulated toxins stored in the body that are getting stirred up.

So what to do?

Thankfully, there are solutions! But it involves a healing process, through gradual, baby steps. Detox doesn't have to happen overnight. It can be slowed down, so that it isn't so uncomfortable.

My suggestions would include:

Don't try to eat raw fruits and veggies yet. You aren't ready for that. Instead, eat cooked veggies which are easier to digest and less detoxifying.

Rather than trying to replace the meat with fruits and veggies, focus instead on well-cooked brown rice and oatmeal which are gentle on the gut. Meanwhile, start introducing some probiotics, to help reintroduce the healthy bacteria. And, drink lots of water, and completely eliminate sodas and sports drinks, which are essentially 'anti-water.' (Contact me privately if you'd like me to find someone in your area who can give you the best water, for free. It can dramatically accelerate the detox process.)

Also, as the body detoxifies, guess what, the taste buds change! Yes, I see this all the time. People who used to hate veggies suddenly start craving salads. This is common. But the first step is detox.

Here is a book that might help you:

Healing Digestive Illness: Root Causes and Solutions

Once the body has detoxed, and the beneficial bacteria restored, the body should be able to handle the foods it was designed for. Even then, as Dr. Gabriel Cousens explains, some people do better with higher proteins and fats (more nuts, seeds, avocados, nut milks, etc.) and less carbs. Your metabolic type might be in that category.

I hope this helps! Good luck! Please feel free to contact me privately if I can be of any assistance.

[Monica]

I feel not responsible for the animal as I believe it is it's desired experience that is unfolding as the One Intelligent Infinity experiencing many-ness. In a sense to me All is One also means that I am myself that animal incarnating for the purpose of that experience in order to rejoin at some point with my current line of experience through the first common Logos we will both have reached in degree of awareness. These horrible experiences add up to the Higher Self of the animal and so-on all the way up to Intelligent Infinity defining the intelligence of Love and Light. It is not wasted, it is not unlike Love and Light, it is an equal part of the process. Even if I'm eating meat I am still more positively polarized than negatively and thus have a positive impact on this sphere even if I do not feel the need to do so in every single one of my deeds. I can partake in the negativity in certain aspect of my life too when I feel called for it and I do not perceive it as wrong in this Universe.

Really? Even though you are the one directly causing the animal's suffering and death, you don't feel any responsibility? How curious.

[Spaced]

Anyone who participates in a capitalist society is directly responsible for the suffering and death of impoverished workers at home and abroad. Our lifestyle, luxuries and cheap consumer goods (including our fruits and veggies) come at the expense of human suffering. To ignore this and focus solely on the well-being of animals instead seems counter-intuitive to me and makes it seem that one has more regard for animal life than human life.

The system of exploitation has to be replaced completely before any progress will be made on the front of animal welfare. As long as profit is the motive for action animals will continue to be exploited, since as we've seen it's quite easy for business lobbyists to drum up demand for animal products. How can we convince people not to exploit animals when they are complicit in the exploitation of their fellow human beings? We must put our own house in order and if we can develop a more compassionate society than that compassion will necessarily extend to our animal other-selves.

[Diana]

The system of exploitation has to be replaced completely before any progress will be made on the front of animal welfare. As long as profit is the motive for action animals will continue to be exploited, since as we've seen it's quite easy for business lobbyists to drum up demand for animal products. How can we convince people not to exploit animals when they are complicit in the exploitation of their fellow human beings? We must put our own house in order and if we can develop a more compassionate society than that compassion will necessarily extend to our animal other-selves.

I'm not sure why you think you can't have compassion for, and address the exploitation of, all life forms. We make choices, one at a time, every day. Why just humans?

Why is it the business lobbyist's fault, or capitalism's fault? These are problems, and there is a large "asleep" and anesthetized population of humans out there doing what they're told. I agree we couldn't tell them much of anything. But what about the more awake, compassionate humans who are seeking to evolve and help this planet evolve? That's why wanderers are here, is it not?

Profit is based on supply and demand. If a person buys meat, they participate in adding to demand. So, you are saying that until we transform capitalism and profit-mongering it's okay to exploit animals? In other words, eat meat no matter how much suffering it causes, because we are focusing on human problems only?

I couldn't do that. I have compassion for all things, and I don't think humans are more important than anything else. Humans are culpable though, of this mess we've made. And in that sense I agree that we have to clean up that mess. But I don't agree that we ignore other life forms in the process.

[Monica]

The system of exploitation has to be replaced completely before any progress will be made on the front of animal welfare.

That's just not true. A few decades ago, veganism - even vegetarianism - was seen as 'extremist' and it was very difficult to ever find any clean foods at restaurants. Now, it's trendy, with many celebrities and even a former president going plant-based. Now, many, if not most restaurants have vegan options, and many cities now have several totally vegan restaurants.

The number of vegetarians and vegans is growing rapidly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country  <<-- check it out - 12% vegetarian in Britain! Also check out the TREND towards more vegetarian/vegan! 

According to research carried out in 2014, 12% of British are either vegetarian or vegan. This number rises to 20% among people aged 16-24.

A 2013 Public Policy Polling survey found 13% of Americans identify as vegetarian (6%) or vegan (7%).[66] A 2012 Gallup poll found 5% of Americans identify as vegetarian and 2% as vegan.[67] A 2008 Harris Interactive poll found that 10% of adults "largely follow a vegetarian-inclined diet," with 3.2% following a vegetarian diet and 0.5% identifying as vegans.[68] A 2000 Zogby Poll found that 2.5% of respondents reported not eating meat, poultry, or fish; while 4.5 percent reported not eating meat.[69]
Many children [in the United States] whose parents follow vegetarian diets follow them because of religious or ethical beliefs, for animal rights, or for the environment or other reasons.[70] In the government's first estimate[71] of how many children avoid meat, the number is about 1 in 200.[72][73] Also, the CDC survey included children ages 0 to 17 years. Possibly, older children are more likely to follow a vegetarian diet, so differences in age could explain some of the difference in results between the surveys.[70]
U.S. vegetarian food sales (meat replacements such as soy milk and textured vegetable protein) doubled between 1998 and 2003, reaching $1.6 billion in 2003.[74]

A few decades ago, it was 1/2 of 1 percent! Now the numbers are much bigger and growing rapidly. Each person who goes vegan saves about 150 sentient beings from a violent death, each year.

That's significant.

Not to mention, the energetic and spiritual effects of all those people opening their hearts to compassion. I know a lot of vegans and they aren't perfect but the one thing they have in common is compassion. How curious, while many self-professed 'spiritual' people in the Christian and New Age communities continue to get defensive about their choice to support the suffering and killing of animals.

As long as profit is the motive for action animals will continue to be exploited, since as we've seen it's quite easy for business lobbyists to drum up demand for animal products.

It's simple supply and demand. If people quit buying animal products, no amount of lobbying would matter.

How can we convince people not to exploit animals when they are complicit in the exploitation of their fellow human beings? We must put our own house in order and if we can develop a more compassionate society than that compassion will necessarily extend to our animal other-selves.

That hasn't worked, has it? Many people have compassion for other humans, yet continue to be in denial about the suffering of animals. Why must compassion be compartmentalized, as though it applies only to humans? That's speciesism.

I will counter your question with some questions:

How can we expect the planet to shift to 4D, when WE are contributing to the oppression and suffering of sentient beings?

How can we 'put our own house in order' when WE are directly adding to the problem, by buying meat and dairy?

How can we be concerned about lobbyists, when WE are adding to the demand for animal products ourselves?

[Minyatur]

I feel not responsible for the animal as I believe it is it's desired experience that is unfolding as the One Intelligent Infinity experiencing many-ness. In a sense to me All is One also means that I am myself that animal incarnating for the purpose of that experience in order to rejoin at some point with my current line of experience through the first common Logos we will both have reached in degree of awareness. These horrible experiences add up to the Higher Self of the animal and so-on all the way up to Intelligent Infinity defining the intelligence of Love and Light. It is not wasted, it is not unlike Love and Light, it is an equal part of the process. Even if I'm eating meat I am still more positively polarized than negatively and thus have a positive impact on this sphere even if I do not feel the need to do so in every single one of my deeds. I can partake in the negativity in certain aspect of my life too when I feel called for it and I do not perceive it as wrong in this Universe.

Really? Even though you are the one directly causing the animal's suffering and death, you don't feel any responsibility? How curious.

I think souls do incarnate where they do for the purpose of the experience. To me the nature of reality is that of a dream and souls do have all of the space/time continuum to incarnate where they vibrate more with the environment. In my opinion, a soul is never at the wrong place as there is no law governing where it will manifest into reality except it's own will as part of the One Intelligent Infinity. The end shapes all the way to Itself, in my view there is nothing happening that is uncalled for. These entities are Infinity themselves and are not bellow anything in truth. These experiences, while I do not especially think of them as good or anything, serve the purpose of making them grow in awareness of themselves through their own path. I do not feel responsible for many-ness unfolding, just as I am pretty sure there are tons of areas other-selves have at heart which you do not. 

[Minyatur]

Also I do not think a single person stopping eating meat has any impact on the market. If there are many, the total impact can be divided by how many partake in it which shows an end result. But the market in itself won't react to a single entity's behaviors. The meat I would not eat myself would either be bought by someone else or thrown away which is worst than being eaten in itself but surely would not be not produced because of me. I do vote and a few other things for this same reason. The only way I'd have an impact is by doing what you do in addition to being vegetarian, which is raising awareness about the subject, and which I do not feel called to do.

[Diana]

I feel not responsible for the animal as I believe it is it's desired experience that is unfolding as the One Intelligent Infinity experiencing many-ness. 

You made a choice to eat an animal. You are responsible for your choice. The implications of your choices are debatable, not your responsibility in making them. 

How can you possibly know what the animals' desired experiences are? Because all is well, all is good, all is as it should be? Because all is the One Infinite Creator? Then you simply do nothing at all, and just float through existence doing whatever? If there is a One Infinite Creator, what would be the purpose of creating life forms that do nothing? If that was the case, why would Ra have talked to us at all?

Perhaps you are correct that the animals' desired experience here is to suffer and be food for humans. It doesn't matter what their desired experience is, it matters what yours is. Is your desired experience to ingest a being who suffered to be food for you, who didn't want to be slaughtered? This is YOUR choice, whatever the choices of the animals are. 

Even if you were some ridiculously advanced light being from a much higher octave, whose lightness of being was so far removed from physicality you could somehow inject love into every action regardless of what that action was. You would still be setting an example for 3D humans that enslaving, causing suffering to, and eating slaughtered animals is okay. Why not, as a light being, eat closer to light if you must eat: plants that photosynthesize. Plants that need to spread their seeds so attract animals to eat them? There is so much evidence that plants require this symbiosis, that they want to be food.

Everything anyone does changes everything. Ripples in a pond is a good visual. Even better: interference patterns. The double-slit experiment proves that just observing something affects it.  

[Diana]

Also I do not think a single person stopping eating meat has any impact on the market. If there are many, the total impact can be divided by how many partake in it which shows an end result. But the market in itself won't react to a single entity's behaviors. The meat I would not eat myself would either be bought by someone else or thrown away which is worst than being eaten in itself but surely would not be not produced because of me. I do vote and a few other things for this same reason. The only way I'd have an impact is by doing what you do in addition to being vegetarian, which is raising awareness about the subject, and which I do not feel called to do.

Minyatur, I suggest you really think about this attitude that you are not responsible because you are only one. That you won't affect the market. The market is MADE UP of individuals. 

1+1+1+1+1........................=1,000,000

If you are not called to raise awareness, fine. But you are supporting a system of cruelty by purchasing meat. You are part of the market.

[Minyatur]

Also I do not think a single person stopping eating meat has any impact on the market. If there are many, the total impact can be divided by how many partake in it which shows an end result. But the market in itself won't react to a single entity's behaviors. The meat I would not eat myself would either be bought by someone else or thrown away which is worst than being eaten in itself but surely would not be not produced because of me. I do vote and a few other things for this same reason. The only way I'd have an impact is by doing what you do in addition to being vegetarian, which is raising awareness about the subject, and which I do not feel called to do.

Minyatur, I suggest you really think about this attitude that you are not responsible because you are only one. That you won't affect the market. The market is MADE UP of individuals. 

1+1+1+1+1........................=1,000,000

If you are not called to raise awareness, fine. But you are supporting a system of cruelty by purchasing meat. You are part of the market.

I do not mind being part of the market because of the reasons stated in my post before this one. Life is not a little tiny spark as 3D seems to make it believe, life is infinite and never ends in it's experiences that it seeks. I would not partake in this system of cruelty more than my actual contribution which in itself alone still has no impact on the market. The market isn't made to respond with accuracy to one more or less consumer who doesn't buy so much meat in the first place. I'm partaking in the 3D experience of the Earth as it is, if the vegatarism movement was much stronger I wouldn't be killing animals myself to be able to eat them. I do not think of the Earth as wrong in any way either. I'ts all part of the perfect clockwork of this Universe.

[Spaced]

I think that veganism is an admirable choice and applaud people who make that choice. Nowhere do I say anything to the contrary. But to focus on a single issue like veganism again and again and to use the Law of One to justify your position that it is the only moral choice is a narrow view that borders on fundamentalism.

There is also a larger picture to look at, and Minyataur is hinting at it here. If we are going to look to the Law of One to guide our moral choices then we have to accept all that Ra says. We have to accept that we have a narrow and limited perspective of a universe in which an infinite and eternal drama is unfolding. All of us are playing a part, we offer second density entities the catalyst that will allow them individuate into third density and they offer us the catalyst that will help us to grow in compassion. When that catalyst is no longer required it will disappear, but until then trying to suppress that catalyst is putting the cart before the horse and is a disservice for all involved.

The militant vegan attitude that we are all familiar with is a reaction to that catalyst as well and shows that there is still work to be done in that area if one is sincere about their desire to seek the path of balanced growth.

How can we expect the planet to shift to 4D, when WE are contributing to the oppression and suffering of sentient beings?

Good question! How would you answer it? Or do you claim to live a life that is completely free of any contribution to the exploitation or oppression of any sentient beings?

How can we 'put our own house in order' when WE are directly adding to the problem, by buying meat and dairy?

This is a loaded question since you are arguing from a perceived moral high ground. You've already decided that you are in the right and are therefore free to paint meat and dairy eaters with a broad brush as self-serving and lacking in compassion.

Classic fundamentalist tactic and a direct act of separation.

How can we be concerned about lobbyists, when WE are adding to the demand for animal products ourselves?

By educating the population and encouraging them to think for themselves. By supporting your local farmers and returning the means of production to the small farmer.