What does anybody predict will be the future of this octave of densities?

[Lighthead]

Like the subject says: What does anyone predict will be the future of this octave of densities? In other words, does anybody spot any future trends based on what the Law of One material indicates? To make it easier, I think it would have to include what Ra has implied about the beginning of this universe (as far back as what Ra knows) and other things.

I'll kick it off by stating my theory of where I see this octave is going (based on a close examination of the Ra material). I think that it might be very likely that, especially on future 3rd density planets, the veil will intensify even further. As most of us know, at the very beginning, there was not much of a veil, if any. The lack of a veil was why 3rd density took such a long period of time for each entity because there was no real motivation to progress. But when the idea for the veiling process appeared, then things really started to take off. Here's an example of how important the veiling process is to Ra:

79.10 Questioner: Then prior to the first extension of the first distortion the veil or loss of awareness did not occur. Then, from this I will make the assumption that this veil or loss of remembering consciously that which occurred before the incarnation was the primary tool for extending the first distortion. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Your correctness is limited. This was the first tool.

We can see that the veiling process was of prime importance. Do we see any faint glimmers of evidence that the veil was less intense in a much earlier period of time than now? Ra mentions that it was fairly easy for those of Ra to be harvested for 3rd density graduation. But they seem to have had a hard time in 5th density (the wisdom density). I tend to see wisdom as the counterpart of love, hence, the prescribed unity of both in 6th density (love/wisdom). From the point of view of pure wisdom, it is very foolish to rely so strongly on love. From Ra's own words:

41.26 Questioner: This may be too long a question for this working, but I will ask it and if it is too long we can continue it at a later time. Could you tell me of the development of the social memory complex Ra, from its first beginnings and what catalyst it used to get to where it is now in activation of rays? Is this too long a question?

Ra: I am Ra. The question does not demand a long answer, for we who experienced the vibratory densities upon that planetary sphere which you call Venus were fortunate in being able to move in harmony with the planetary vibrations with an harmonious graduation to second, to third, and to fourth, and a greatly accelerated fourth-density experience.

We spent much time/space, if you will, in fifth density balancing the intense compassion we had gained in fourth density. The graduation again was harmonious and our social memory complex which had become most firmly cemented in fourth density remained of a very strong and helpful nature.

Our sixth-density work was also accelerated because of the harmony of our social memory complex so that we were able to set out as members of the Confederation to even more swiftly approach graduation to seventh density. Our harmony, however, has been a grievous source of naïveté as regards working with your planet. Is there a brief query before we leave this instrument?

89.35 Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?

Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom [5th density], an overabundance of love. These entities looked at those still in darkness and saw that those of a neutral or somewhat negative viewpoint found such harmony, shall we say, sickening. The Wanderers felt that a more wisdom-oriented way of seeking love could be more appealing to those in darkness.

So we kind of see hints that it may have been much easier to be harvested into 4th density (indicating a relatively weak veil), and that this tendency towards compassion would necessitate a fairly longer time in 5th density (the wisdom density; wisdom being the counterpoint of love).

So I feel that it is entirely possible that our Logos (and other Logos's) is gauging the success of 3rd density planets with thick veils (ours may be an example) to see if this provides a good stock of entities with a healthy amount of physical experience to progress. If they think that a thick veil is providing a good "stock," then I feel that it is very likely that there will be a trend towards a thicker veil, especially in 3rd density.

This is just a theory. I could be completely wrong.

So what does anybody else think, and does anybody see any future trends of this octave based on a close examination of the Ra material?

P.S.: I forgot to mention that Ra was 3rd density about 2.6 billion years ago. So Ra is a good example of an entity that had their 3rd density when the veil may have been less thick.

[AnthroHeart]

An incredibly dense veil creates an imbalance towards STS. I don't see the veil getting denser. We would lose all channeling capability and I don't see that happening.

[Lighthead]

An incredibly dense veil creates an imbalance towards STS. I don't see the veil getting denser. We would lose all channeling capability and I don't see that happening.

Well, since the universe hasn't experienced a veil that is any thicker than now, I don't think we really know what would happen. What makes you think that the veil creates a tendency towards STS?

Besides, I don't think that there would be no channeling capability, it would just be less. I think that it would make the Choice that much more potent. And the idea that there is a choice implies that there is a possible choice between two things, not just STS. It just makes it harder to find and that much more valuable.

I think that if anything it would cause more entities to repeat 3rd density, but not necessarily more STS. I think that it would make it more possible to experience a 3 way harvest.

[APeacefulWarrior]

So we kind of see hints that it may have been much easier to be harvested into 4th density (indicating a relatively weak veil), and that this tendency towards compassion would necessitate a fairly longer time in 5th density (the wisdom density; wisdom being the counterpoint of love).

So I feel that it is entirely possible that our Logos (and other Logos's) is gauging the success of 3rd density planets with thick veils (ours may be an example) to see if this provides a good stock of entities with a healthy amount of physical experience to progress. If they think that a thick veil is providing a good "stock," then I feel that it is very likely that there will be a trend towards a thicker veil, especially in 3rd density.

A couple things.   First,  I think it's important to remember that Ra is just one representative of the process and there's no guarantee that anyone else's path will follow Ra's.   I don't think it's valid to infer too much from Ra's own story.  However,  another answer he gives seems relevant to your query...

90.12 Questioner: Was there a reason for choosing the forms that have evolved upon this planet and, if so, what was it?

Ra: I am Ra. We are not entirely sure why our Logos and several neighboring Logoi of approximately the same space/time of flowering chose the bipedal, erect form of the second-density apes to invest. It has been our supposition, which we share with you as long as you are aware that this is mere opinion, that our Logos was interested in, shall we say, further intensifying the veiling process by offering to the third-density form the near complete probability for the development of speech taking complete precedence over concept communication or telepathy. We also have the supposition that the so-called opposable thumb was looked upon as an excellent means of intensifying the veiling process so that rather than rediscovering the powers of the mind the third-density entity would, by the form of its physical manifestation, be drawn to the making, holding, and using of physical tools.

If Ra's theory is correct,  then we have a thicker veil because of our Logos helping humans develop in such a way that WE thicken the veil for ourselves.     Both our reliance on speech and our love of making clever devices would be working to make it harder for individuals to penetrate the veil to the underlying truths. But - extrapolating a bit- such an arrangement would almost certainly guarantee a very "intense" or high-energy third-density experience full of (potentially)  highly unique activities only made possible because of our thick veil and the piles of distortions it caused us to invent.

Like (moving solely into my own opinion) it occurred to me recently that video games could represent an entirely new form of God.   Advanced AI constructs are basically electric life forms,  and since electricity is a fairly fundamental distortion of the love/light,  I'm forced to think that God may well experience video games from within,  as the AI.   While I have no way of knowing if we're the only species in our local spacetime to invent video games,  if so,  that would actually demonstrate how clever the Logos was in bringing about this arrangement.   Creating an entirely new form/experience for the Creator would be,  to my mind,  a very high accomplishment.

[Lighthead]

A couple things.   First,  I think it's important to remember that Ra is just one representative of the process and there's no guarantee that anyone else's path will follow Ra's.   I don't think it's valid to infer too much from Ra's own story.  However,  another answer he gives seems relevant to your query...

90.12 Questioner: Was there a reason for choosing the forms that have evolved upon this planet and, if so, what was it?

Ra: I am Ra. We are not entirely sure why our Logos and several neighboring Logoi of approximately the same space/time of flowering chose the bipedal, erect form of the second-density apes to invest. It has been our supposition, which we share with you as long as you are aware that this is mere opinion, that our Logos was interested in, shall we say, further intensifying the veiling process by offering to the third-density form the near complete probability for the development of speech taking complete precedence over concept communication or telepathy. We also have the supposition that the so-called opposable thumb was looked upon as an excellent means of intensifying the veiling process so that rather than rediscovering the powers of the mind the third-density entity would, by the form of its physical manifestation, be drawn to the making, holding, and using of physical tools.

If Ra's theory is correct,  then we have a thicker veil because of our Logos helping humans develop in such a way that WE thicken the veil for ourselves.     Both our reliance on speech and our love of making clever devices would be working to make it harder for individuals to penetrate the veil to the underlying truths. But - extrapolating a bit- such an arrangement would almost certainly guarantee a very "intense" or high-energy third-density experience full of (potentially)  highly unique activities only made possible because of our thick veil and the piles of distortions it caused us to invent.

Like (moving solely into my own opinion) it occurred to me recently that video games could represent an entirely new form of God.   Advanced AI constructs are basically electric life forms,  and since electricity is a fairly fundamental distortion of the love/light,  I'm forced to think that God may well experience video games from within,  as the AI.   While I have no way of knowing if we're the only species in our local spacetime to invent video games,  if so,  that would actually demonstrate how clever the Logos was in bringing about this arrangement.   Creating an entirely new form/experience for the Creator would be,  to my mind,  a very high accomplishment.

Wow, you really like to play, huh?

But do you think that we're moving towards a thicker veil?

[APeacefulWarrior]

That's an interesting  question because it seems like it could tip either way.  On one hand,  the proliferation of abstracted speech and electric gizmos create a multitude of ways for people to "tune out"  the universal truths in favor of (largely self-oriented) experiences based solely upon distortions.   Based on this,  I would say the tendency would be towards a thicker veil.

HOWEVER,  God is in all things and Truth is in all things,  and so the proliferation of all those clever/unique interactions also open the door for entirely new ways to find and connect with the Creator.   The Internet,  especially,  has made it possible for people to explore the world and its ideas in ways that simply were not possible prior to the 21st Century.   Someone with a smartphone could just as easily spend their time researching philosophy or attempting to better-understand humanity as a whole... Or they could spend their life playing Facebook games.

So the more ways we find to thicken the veil would also,  simultaneously,  open up many new windows into the veil,  for those with the eyes to see it. It still boils down to a matter of free will and what an individual is searching for on their own life path.

[Lighthead]

That's an interesting  question because it seems like it could tip either way.  On one hand,  the proliferation of abstracted speech and electric gizmos create a multitude of ways for people to "tune out"  the universal truths in favor of (largely self-oriented) experiences based solely upon distortions.   Based on this,  I would say the tendency would be towards a thicker veil.

HOWEVER,  God is in all things and Truth is in all things,  and so the proliferation of all those clever/unique interactions also open the door for entirely new ways to find and connect with the Creator.   The Internet,  especially,  has made it possible for people to explore the world and its ideas in ways that simply were not possible prior to the 21st Century.   Someone with a smartphone could just as easily spend their time researching philosophy or attempting to better-understand humanity as a whole... Or they could spend their life playing Facebook games.

So the more ways we find to thicken the veil would also,  simultaneously,  open up many new windows into the veil,  for those with the eyes to see it.  It still boils down to a matter of free will and what an individual is searching for on their own life path.

Interesting ideas. My only critique of what you're saying is that it seems like you are referring to a 3rd density planet like ours that is so close to 4th density as to actually be 4th density (Q'uo, in fact, says that we are now in 4th density; the harvest, according to Q'uo, was in 1987). So, it seems that you are describing a 3rd density situation that is on the cusp of 4th density (as far as the technological progress that you are describing, goes). A true 3rd density would be more like any time period (here on 3rd density Earth) before now.

That era of 3rd density is what I am primarily referring to as being thicker.

[APeacefulWarrior]

It occurs to me that we're not necessarily disagreeing here.   The creation of the public Internet (in 1984ish) could well have been the event that "kicked off"  the 4D conversion because the Internet allowed for exponentially faster spread of ideas and innovation.   It's a very high-energy invention,  as I see it, and one that is definitely reshaping the planetary consciousness.

Also, according to Ra this is an ongoing process that will take at least a century to complete,  and possibly several centuries.   It's not that the harvest has happened (past tense)  but only that it has now begun.

40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

I suspect the anomalies he's referring to go back to the quote I posted earlier,  about the Earth potentially being deliberately set up as a very intense/distorted experience.   That suggests to me the transition will not necessarily be a smooth one,  and there will likely be great uncertainty about how it turns out -  and especially whether Earth "tips"  towards STS or STO.

[Lighthead]

It occurs to me that we're not necessarily disagreeing here.   The creation of the public Internet (in 1984ish) could well have been the event that "kicked off"  the 4D conversion because the Internet allowed for exponentially faster spread of ideas and innovation.   It's a very high-energy invention,  as I see it, and one that is definitely reshaping the planetary consciousness.

Also, according to Ra this is an ongoing process that will take at least a century to complete,  and possibly several centuries.   It's not that the harvest has happened (past tense)  but only that it has now begun.

40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

I suspect the anomalies he's referring to go back to the quote I posted earlier,  about the Earth potentially being deliberately set up as a very intense/distorted experience.   That suggests to me the transition will not necessarily be a smooth one,  and there will likely be great uncertainty about how it turns out -  and especially whether Earth "tips"  towards STS or STO.

Well, I don't really want to mince words, but I'm speaking about the evolution of the whole universe; not just this 3rd-4th density planet. And more specifically, I'm speaking about the future 3rd density planets. I'm speculating about whether they will have thicker veils.

Just as an example, if my theory is correct, when I choose to wander to another 3rd density planet to help it achieve a successful 4th density harvest, I suspect that it will be an ever so slightly thicker veil on that planet.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Wouldn't the thickness of their veil be mostly due to choices made by the ruling Logos in terms of their development and communicative abilities? That would be directly implied by Ra's opinions about Earth's development.

Although I suspect that a sufficiently powerful entity might have the ability to thicken/weaken the veil based on the work they did in life. Like, going back to our other discussion, Ayn Rand was probably quite "successful" in thickening the veil for those who read and bought into her philosophies.

[Lighthead]

Wouldn't the thickness of their veil be mostly due to choices made by the ruling Logos in terms of their development and communicative abilities? That would be directly implied by Ra's opinions about Earth's development.  

Although I suspect that a sufficiently powerful entity might have the ability to thicken/weaken the veil based on the work they did in life.   Like,  going back to our other discussion,  Ayn Rand was probably quite "successful"  in thickening the veil for those who read and bought into her philosophies.

You seem to bring up some interesting points. I'm going to have to continue this tomorrow, as I have to get up early tomorrow.
Plus: There's a lot of distraction in my house at this late hour.
To be continued...

[Minyatur]

If early worlds had greater order and no free will to create disorder and then it came to what we are now. From entropy, this Universe should tend toward more and more disorder with time until it reaches it's more statistically probable state which is total disorder.

[Lighthead]

Wouldn't the thickness of their veil be mostly due to choices made by the ruling Logos in terms of their development and communicative abilities? That would be directly implied by Ra's opinions about Earth's development.  

Although I suspect that a sufficiently powerful entity might have the ability to thicken/weaken the veil based on the work they did in life.   Like,  going back to our other discussion,  Ayn Rand was probably quite "successful"  in thickening the veil for those who read and bought into her philosophies.

I think you're absolutely right. I think that the thickness of the veil is determined by the ruling Logos. My intuition tells me that in Ra's time the veil was less thick. If you think about it, Ra lived its 3rd density 2.6 billion years ago. We don't really know when the veil was instituted. It could've been just barely 5 billion years before Ra's third density. And if you think about it, it seems to makes sense that the various Logoses would at first start with a thin veil to sort of play around and see what at level the thickness of it should be. And also, my intuition tells me that a thicker veil as time progresses is optimal. Of course, not at the beginning. But over the course of the universe's span of time.

About Ayn Rand, that's where I disagree with you and Gemini Wolf. I don't think that a thick veil necessarily makes for more STS type activity. I think that it makes it less obvious as to what the Choice (if any is even perceptible with such a thick veil) should be. I think that, if anything, it makes for a rougher 3rd density experience, but not because of STS. It makes life on 3rd density more vivid, more physically entrancing, and makes for less of an ability to see past the physical and into the "spiritual."

That's why I think that if any entity is able to see through the jungle of 3rd density experience in despite of such a thick veil, it makes their Choice much more meaningful in the long run. It would basically be like going through a Navy Seal boot camp. The entity has been tried and tested.

[Lighthead]

If early worlds had greater order and no free will to create disorder and then it came to what we are now. From entropy, this Universe should tend toward more and more disorder with time until it reaches it's more statistically probable state which is total disorder.

I think that the end state is something like controlled chaos. Good insight.

[Minyatur]

If early worlds had greater order and no free will to create disorder and then it came to what we are now. From entropy, this Universe should tend toward more and more disorder with time until it reaches it's more statistically probable state which is total disorder.

I think that the end state is something like controlled chaos. Good insight.

Was not the initial state totally controlled chaos?

[Lighthead]

[quote pid='174191' dateline='1426810129']
Was not the initial state totally controlled chaos?

[/quote]

I would describe it more as, devoid of color, vividness. Flat.

[APeacefulWarrior]

I think you're absolutely right. I think that the thickness of the veil is determined by the ruling Logos. My intuition tells me that in Ra's time the veil was less thick. If you think about it, Ra lived its 3rd density 2.6 billion years ago. We don't really know when the veil was instituted. It could've been just barely 5 billion years before Ra's third density. And if you think about it, it seems to makes sense that the various Logoses would at first start with a thin veil to sort of play around and see what at level the thickness of it should be. And also, my intuition tells me that a thicker veil as time progresses is optimal. Of course, not at the beginning. But over the course of the universe's span of time.

About Ayn Rand, that's where I disagree with you and Gemini Wolf. I don't think that a thick veil necessarily makes for more STS type activity. I think that it makes it less obvious as to what the Choice (if any is even perceptible with such a thick veil) should be. I think that, if anything, it makes for a rougher 3rd density experience, but not because of STS. It makes life on 3rd density more vivid, more physically entrancing, and makes for less of an ability to see past the physical and into the "spiritual."

That's why I think that if any entity is able to see through the jungle of 3rd density experience in despite of such a thick veil, it makes their Choice much more meaningful in the long run. It would basically be like going through a Navy Seal boot camp. The entity has been tried and tested.

OK, I see one place our thinking diverges. I don't really see the veil as being a literal real-as-in-bricks thing. I see it as being more fluid and individualistic. Sort of, every person is veiled, but the thickness of the veil will vary from person to person depending on upbringing, biases, etc. That's why I said Rand probably made the veil thicker for those that bought into her ideologies. She introduced new distortions, which thickened the veil for those who believed them, but would have had little effect on those who did not.

The mediasphere or the zeitgeist, so to speak, would certainly play a part in the thickness as well, since that would determine the biases of a large number of people at once. But I still tend to think the "thickness" would be relative to individuals rather than absolute to the species/planet.

[Lighthead]

OK,  I see one place our thinking diverges.   I don't really see the veil as being a literal real-as-in-bricks thing.   I see it as being more fluid and individualistic.   Sort of,  every person is veiled,  but the thickness of the veil will vary from person to person depending on upbringing,  biases,  etc.   That's why I said Rand probably made the veil thicker for those that bought into her ideologies.   She introduced new distortions,  which thickened the veil for those who believed them, but would have had little effect on those who did not.

The mediasphere or the  zeitgeist,  so to speak,  would certainly play a part in the thickness as well,  since that would determine the biases of a large number of people at once.   But I still tend to think the "thickness"  would be relative to individuals rather than absolute to the species/planet.

Hmm... you mention a point that I don't think Ra ever mentioned. I think it's interesting, especially since I for one am not known for not going above and beyond what the Law of One material states. I think that it's definitely true though that something like an individual veil exists, and I would go even further and say that this informs the veil that the Logos helps to establish with the individual Logoi (as well as other Logoses).

I appreciate your outside of the box thinking. Pretty interesting...

[Observer]

I forsee a civilization very similar to ours, with different technology and different social hierarchy going through different representations of the same catalyst. I dont think the experience here on earth is going to change to much, but the people experiencing it, will reach intelligent infinity different and with more proficiency as we enter the age of Aquarius and so on and so forth as we enter new ages astrologically.

[tamaryn]

I can only imagine the experience of facebook games under a veil twice as thick....

[Lighthead]

I can only imagine the experience of facebook games under a veil twice as thick....

I think that it would be harder to know what's what, that's for sure. I theorize that under a thick veil, life would be much more vivid, physically speaking.

[I_Am_The_One]

If early worlds had greater order and no free will to create disorder and then it came to what we are now. From entropy, this Universe should tend toward more and more disorder with time until it reaches it's more statistically probable state which is total disorder.

I think that the end state is something like controlled chaos. Good insight.

Thats right I call it ectasy.

[Yggdrasil]

I don't believe the Universe has an 'end state', myself. The future of this octave is non-existent. There is only the future of the entities which experience the octave. I believe the octave is a fixed structure through which Intelligent Energy moves, like the way hitting a drum causes a particular sound to form. I view the octave as like the drum. The octave is eternal, permanent. What is temporary is the experience of consciousness as it passes through the octave structure. This could also be looked at like a prism. When the light enters, that's when the colours differentiate in to the octave.

So, I believe the structures of all of the densities are already in place. This, the only future to look forward to is that of the entities who are moving through the octave structure.

[Lighthead]

I don't believe the Universe has an 'end state', myself. The future of this octave is non-existent. There is only the future of the entities which experience the octave. I believe the octave is a fixed structure through which Intelligent Energy moves, like the way hitting a drum causes a particular sound to form. I view the octave as like the drum. The octave is eternal, permanent. What is temporary is the experience of consciousness as it passes through the octave structure. This could also be looked at like a prism. When the light enters, that's when the colours differentiate in to the octave.

So, I believe the structures of all of the densities are already in place. This, the only future to look forward to is that of the entities who are moving through the octave structure.

I've seen scientists talk about the distant future of this universe (octave) as being riddled with black holes. I'm talking about trillions of years into the future. According to Ra, a black hole signifies an entryway into the next octave. Does that mean that this octave will have exhausted all of its possibilities? What about those entities that are just barely graduating from the octave before this one? Will they have almost nothing to experience before graduating into the next octave? I also wonder if, since the potential of this octave will have been exhausted by then, is that when all of the infinities of octaves coalesce to begin a new experience?

[Yggdrasil]

Again, this is a matter of perspective. The view you are looking at is from 'within the river of time', whereas I am viewing it from outside of time in its timeless state. The octave will never exhaust its possibilities per se, because those possibilities are a function of the consciousness experiencing the octave. Thus, the octave cannot truly 'end' however it does cycle infinitely as the octave itself is a timeless structure within which the illusion of time and space are present like the sound produced by air through a flute.

This is where it gets kind of complicated though. The 'breath' which moves through the octave is that which gives focus to the Logoi. This breath is like an Arch-Logos whom is the archetype and Adam Kadmon of all Logoi and of which all Logoi drink from the One. This Arch-Logos stands at the 'gateway' between octaves and represents each Octave's collective self, the conclusive identity created out of each octave as the breath moves through. This you could say is the note being played by the flute by the Creator in this octave.

Our octave, or the one described by Ra, is, I believe, actually within a greater octave and so the 'next octave' is actually just a step up in this greater or macrocosmic octave. I believe we are within the fourth octave of this greater octave. You could also perhaps call it the "Green Octave". Thus, moving on to the next octave will take you to the "Blue Octave".

The cycle of which you speak is that movement of the breath from the previous octave, in to this one and then on to the next. Remember, there is always more breath coming in to this octave from the previous one, thus this octave will never truly run out of its possibilities because possibilities can exist in an infinite number of iterations so the universe can use and reuse the exact same events over and over without losing the uniqueness of each event because there are infinite iterations or fractals possible. Thus, every experience is always available for every entity that spawns from the breath as it moves through this octave.

Hence, there is only movement forward by the entity towards the next octave. The instrument, the octave, ever remains the same, for it is timeless.

40.1 Questioner: I thought that I would make a statement and let you correct it. I’m trying to make a simple model of the portion of the universe that we find ourselves in. Starting with the Logos, or sub-Logos, our sun, we have white light emanating from this. This is made up of frequencies ranging from the red to the violet. I am assuming that this white light then contains the experiences through all of the densities and as we go into the eighth density we go into a black hole which emerges on the other side as another Logos or sun and starts another octave of experience. Can you comment on this part of my statement?

Ra: I am Ra. We can comment upon this statement to an extent. The concept of the white light of the sub-Logos being prismatically separated and later, at the final chapter, being absorbed again is basically correct. However, there are subtleties involved which are more than semantic.

The white light which emanates and forms the articulated sub-Logos has its beginning in what may be metaphysically seen as darkness. The light comes into that darkness and transfigures it, causing the chaos to organize and become reflective or radiant. Thus the dimensions come into being.

Conversely, the blackness of the black hole, metaphysically speaking, is a concentration of white light being systematically absorbed once again into the One Creator. Finally, this absorption into the One Creator continues until all the infinity of creations have attained sufficient spiritual mass in order that all form once again the great central sun, if you would so imagine it, of the intelligent infinity awaiting potentiation by free will. Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature. To attempt to measure it by your time measures would be useless.

Therefore, the concept of moving through the black hole of the ultimate spiritual gravity well and coming immediately into the next octave misses the subconcept or corollary of the portion of this process which is timeless.

[Yggdrasil]

Tl;Dr - Time and space are a function of the experience entities are having which is the intelligent energy of the Creator moving through the octave structure. For some entities, this octave has barely begun. For others, like us, it is well on its way and we are in the midst of its experience. For others, it is almost getting ready to end and return back to source.

[Lighthead]

How extremely interesting. Very fascinating.

Our octave, or the one described by Ra, is, I believe, actually within a greater octave and so the 'next octave' is actually just a step up in this greater or macrocosmic octave. I believe we are within the fourth octave of this greater octave. You could also perhaps call it the "Green Octave". Thus, moving on to the next octave will take you to the "Blue Octave".

What makes you think that we are in the fourth octave? Ra stated that he believes that there are an infinite number of octaves.

[Yggdrasil]

How extremely interesting. Very fascinating.

Our octave, or the one described by Ra, is, I believe, actually within a greater octave and so the 'next octave' is actually just a step up in this greater or macrocosmic octave. I believe we are within the fourth octave of this greater octave. You could also perhaps call it the "Green Octave". Thus, moving on to the next octave will take you to the "Blue Octave".

What makes you think that we are in the fourth octave? Ra stated that he believes that there are an infinite number of octaves.

Fourth octave within that particular level of the octave structure. I am sure you could view the idea of octaves within octaves within octaves infinitely but it wouldn't serve much purpose to speculate that far. I only speculate this far because it gives context to this octave. The reason I say the fourth octave is because I believe that in this octave we are beginning to master and truly know the ways of the Logos whereas I believe the previous octave exists to create the concept of the Logos. Since I view everything through microcosm and macrocosm I have simply taken the seven phases of this octave and applied them through infinity.

Thus, it appears to me that we are in the third (transitioning to fourth) density of this octave which is the fourth octave in the greater octave. I take this from the fact that Ra stated that in this octave we are experiencing the polarity of service to others and service to self which seems to me to be a heart or green-ray oriented state. The last octave was regarding the mover and the moved which corresponds in my mind with a yellow-ray. One could also logically conclude we are in the third octave of the greater octave as the yellow-ray also includes service but rather I believe such service is more raw and this octave seems to focus much more on refinement.

[Lighthead]

How extremely interesting. Very fascinating.

Our octave, or the one described by Ra, is, I believe, actually within a greater octave and so the 'next octave' is actually just a step up in this greater or macrocosmic octave. I believe we are within the fourth octave of this greater octave. You could also perhaps call it the "Green Octave". Thus, moving on to the next octave will take you to the "Blue Octave".

What makes you think that we are in the fourth octave? Ra stated that he believes that there are an infinite number of octaves.

Fourth octave within that particular level of the octave structure. I am sure you could view the idea of octaves within octaves within octaves infinitely but it wouldn't serve much purpose to speculate that far. I only speculate this far because it gives context to this octave. The reason I say the fourth octave is because I believe that in this octave we are beginning to master and truly know the ways of the Logos whereas I believe the previous octave exists to create the concept of the Logos. Since I view everything through microcosm and macrocosm I have simply taken the seven phases of this octave and applied them through infinity.

Thus, it appears to me that we are in the third (transitioning to fourth) density of this octave which is the fourth octave in the greater octave. I take this from the fact that Ra stated that in this octave we are experiencing the polarity of service to others and service to self which seems to me to be a heart or green-ray oriented state. The last octave was regarding the mover and the moved which corresponds in my mind with a yellow-ray. One could also logically conclude we are in the third octave of the greater octave as the yellow-ray also includes service but rather I believe such service is more raw and this octave seems to focus much more on refinement.

That seems to make sense. It's something I definitely want to think about, though.

[Lighthead]

Yeah, that actually does seem to make sense Yggdrasil. Some food for thought. The ethical point that Ra made about this octave refining STO and STS seems to definitely agree with your statement.