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    Bring4th Bring4th Studies Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters Breaking out of shame with the help of the Law of One, Michael Teachings, and the Enn

    Thread: Breaking out of shame with the help of the Law of One, Michael Teachings, and the Enn


    Questioner (Offline)

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    #61
    07-23-2010, 11:01 AM
    Picture a wave in the ocean.
    The wave is the total activity of a lot of drops of water.

    Deep inside the ocean, the wave is a gentle roll of one drop of water, that then winds up back where it started. It sends this energy to its neighbor which then also rolls around in a little circle and returns to its place. In the depths of the ocean, the wave is a nice little loop and return.
    On the surface of the water, some of the drops of water don't get to return to the ocean. They are tossed up into the sky, as foamy spray. Or they are tossed out onto the land, as the wave crests and crashes. These drops of water then wind up separated from the ocean.

    Imagine that a drop of water could decide whether or not to participate in the wave. For drops deep inside the ocean, this is easy enough: it's a fun little dance to share with their neighbors. No long-term change is involved.

    For the drops at the edge between the ocean and the rest of the world, joining in the wave risks total separation from the ocean. Separated from the community of water drops, the individual drop might land some place where they are the only drop. They might have some solitary time, eventually percolating down to be taken up by plants, or eventually evaporating to be carried back to the ocean through clouds and rain.

    All of that is off in the future. The only thing the drop knows for sure is that if it accepts this massive force pushing through the ocean, it might be push the drop right on out of the ocean.

    Sometimes the service the rest of the world needs from a drop of water is for the drop to leave the ocean, and be the only water in an arid land. Although separated from the ocean, the drop still has all the properties of water including wetness, transparency, value to support life, etc.

    Sometimes the service the rest of the world needs from type 9 is to be the only connection with peace in a situation that doesn't have any other source of peace. If the type 9 has faith in a God big enough to be their loving connection with infinite internal peace, then the type 9 can have courage in a necessary confrontation with those who reject external peace.

    If the type 9 only believes in a God who can put peace in their heart if other people are also at peace outside of themselves, then the temptation is to "go along to get along," or just shut up rather than being honest about injustice since speaking up would disturb the peace... except that there is no peace to disturb.

    I hope this makes some more sense. If not, I'll try to find another way to convey the concept.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #62
    07-23-2010, 12:02 PM
    (07-23-2010, 11:01 AM)Questioner Wrote: Sometimes the service the rest of the world needs from type 9 is to be the only connection with peace in a situation that doesn't have any other source of peace. If the type 9 has faith in a God big enough to be their loving connection with infinite internal peace, then the type 9 can have courage in a necessary confrontation with those who reject external peace.

    If the type 9 only believes in a God who can put peace in their heart if other people are also at peace outside of themselves, then the temptation is to "go along to get along," or just shut up rather than being honest about injustice since speaking up would disturb the peace... except that there is no peace to disturb.

    Does this then justify the concept of the so called 'just war'? For e.g., the Allied resistance to the marauding Axis forces during World War II or the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japanese cities to elicit surrender (again during World War II).

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #63
    07-23-2010, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2010, 12:15 PM by Questioner.)
    Great question, too big and too tangential to the Enneagram to explore in depth here. It really should be a different topic thread.

    My only point here is that the temptation for type 9, when other people are non-peaceful, is to do nothing at all, in the mistaken belief that their God of peace is so small that if the type 9 is at all negative, they lose their connection with God.

    At best, a type 9 person is connected with God's peace in his or her own heart. There is no terrifying risk of separation from God to acknowledge that other people are behaving in a nonpeaceful or even evil way. Fully aware of the truth, the type 9 can then make a wise, moral choice of what to do. Options might include: relocate, speak up, fight back, have a fully aware meditative spiritual prayer warrior experience, or do something else appropriate in the situation. They do not have to do the ostrich head in the sand routine, out of fear that acknowledging a lack of peace somehow cuts them off from God.

    How to appropriately respond to evil, in the outer world, is a big topic. I'm looking here at how each Enneagram type shows a way to be present with God's love in our own actions. And each type also has a temptation to fearfully do far less than our best, because we imagine a God who judges us in a way we can't measure up.

    I'm not suggesting here that a type 9 person should react to evil by an outward "just war." I'm also not suggesting that they shouldn't. I am suggesting that they should be honest about the situation, and respond in a heartfelt way that is fully engaged with the peace of God within. Perhaps there is sometimes nothing that can be done externally. In those situations, however, prayerful, mindful meditation is a world away from sticking one's head in the sand.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #64
    07-23-2010, 12:24 PM
    (07-23-2010, 12:12 PM)Questioner Wrote: .....too tangential to the Enneagram to explore in depth here.

    I now realize that the Enneargram is more of a personal tool than a collective barometer. But can societies, nations and the earth itself have Enneagram modalities is what I was trying to get at.

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #65
    07-23-2010, 12:27 PM
    Another good question. I have no idea. I've never seen the Enneagram used that way. But there could be good information about that, which I happen to have not found yet. Or it could be that it's only relevant personally.

    Maybe you could keep that question in the back of your mind as we proceed. After we've gone around all 9 types, tell me whether or not you see a group-level application.

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    AnthroHeart (Offline)

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    #66
    07-23-2010, 12:32 PM
    That does hit home with me. I tend to think that if I'm not being spiritual, or holding a vibration, that I'm not doing my job.

    But I feel like I wish to avoid certain things like going to clubs, drugs, or heavy drinking, because I just don't want that experience. I do my best to avoid negative situations and people.

    (07-23-2010, 12:12 PM)Questioner Wrote: My only point here is that the temptation for type 9, when other people are non-peaceful, is to do nothing at all, in the mistaken belief that their God of peace is so small that if the type 9 is at all negative, they lose their connection with God.

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #67
    07-23-2010, 01:01 PM
    Lines of Integration

    Now we get to the unique part of the Enneagram, which I find very exciting.

    Types 3, 6, and 9 are equally spaced around the Enneagram circle. In the Enneagram diagram, they are connected with lines that form an equilateral triangle.

    When a type 3 person fulfills his or her purpose, working hard to do their very best, the result is earned internal admiration for this valuable accomplishment.

    Now, what can a person do with this confidence? How about moving on to the positive type 6 energy of healthy collaboration? If you have done your best, and other people in your group also strive to do their best, doesn't that give you the best reason to have a totally trusting and productive working relationship? This is what we see in the best of athletic teams, or the community spirit of the Olympic Village. It's what we see in groups of artists and musicians who each strive for individual excellence, and therefore can be totally open to each other's ways to step up their creativity.

    It's what we see in business teams where any one worker or executive on their own would not be able to do nearly as much as they can do together. Apple's two Steves, Jobs and Wozniak, are a great example. Jobs could never have personally figured out how to optimize a design to use fewer chips and work flawlessly. Woz could haver have personally figured out how to get funding, start a business and promote products. It didn't occur to Woz that a preassembled computer in a case could be a big seller. It didn't occur to Jobs to use a quirk in the color TV standard to double the resolution available from a single output device. Both designer and promoter were at the top of their game and pushed each other further.

    It's also what we see in any field where experts collaborate at a level that challenges everyone to reach deep inside and pull out their previously hidden best (type 3). There are lots of examples of this in drama, such as many of the classic face-offs between characters in Star Trek with opposing points of view, and any number of comedy teams far funnier together than on their own.

    Let's shift our starting point over to point 6. Take a type 6 person who has fulfilled their best work, of loyal service to a team with a worthy cause. Now, if somebody like that sees an issue, are they afraid to speak up about it? Not at all, because they know that they can always find others as loyal and dedicated as they are themself. Therefore, they are at peace with the situation... like an evolved type 9.

    Moving over to type 9, what happens when a person is at peace with their inner connection with God? Well, this can inspire them to know that if they make mistakes, or a big splash, it's all OK because God's love is still with them. This takes away the fear of trying something new or ambitious. As a result, the healthy type 9 can then shift forward to living the positive self-development challenge of type 3.

    This is the line of integration.

    Unfortunately it works in reverse.

    Let's take someone who is innately type 3. But they don't want to rise to the challenge of overcoming their own personal opportunity for growth. Instead, they want to be praised without the work, and what's more, they don't want any backtalk or criticism. They try to manipulate other people into giving them a false version of the peace of type 9.

    Let's take someone who is innately type 6. But they don't value their own contribution enough to avoid throwing their pearls before swine. Not realizing the futility of their cause, they may slide back into the worst of type 3, maybe working extra-hard at providing singing lessons to the pigs. Great devotion to a worthless cause doesn't bring about either loyalty or admiration.

    And let's take someone who is innately type 9. Maybe they lived in the days when abolition of slavery was starting to heat up as a political possibility. And not wanting to annoy the neighbors, they shut up about their conscience when it was time to speak out. In doing so, they slid backwards into a losing caricature of type 6's loyalty.

    This is the direction of DISintegration.

    In normal life, no matter who we are,

    We should do our best so we can be proud of ourselves, like a healthy type 3.
    We should be loyal to an equally dedicated team, so we can together achieve even more with mutual loyalty, like a healthy type 6.
    We should celebrate our shared achievement and hard work with an appreciation of the moment's beauty and peace, like a healthy type 9.

    And in everyday life, no matter who we are,

    We can be tempted to seize unearned glory, like an unhealthy type 3 trying to bamboozle a limited God of toys and favors, just like a toddler trying to get Mommy to give cookies for toys never actually put away!
    We can be tempted to work harder to buy loyalty of disloyal people, like an unhealthy type 6 trying to bamboozle a limited God of practical help, just like a teenager of a drunk Dad trying to be a good enough kid and student so Dad won't have to drink any more.
    We can be tempted to pretend that appeasement brings peace in our time, like an unhealthy type 9 evading an uncomfortable truth rather than being the lighthouse of conscience and love that they should be.

    These are ways we can be aware of attitudes, or states of consciousness, available to all of us at any moment throughout the day. Like a skillful carpenter, we can pick up and put down the appropriate tool at the right place. It's appropriate for the carpenter to use a tape measure to find a length, use a pencil to mark it, then use a saw to cut it. If the carpenter cuts first, then measures how they cut too much, what good is the pencil? The states of being described by the Enneagram should be a natural flow in all of our lives.

    The Enneagram is not a static picture, but a representation of a moving flow of energy that should gently cycle throughout our lives without blockage. This only happens if we use each of these perspectives as an opportunity to reach up for the transcendence of enlightenment inherently there for us in each moment.

      •
    Aaron (Offline)

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    #68
    07-23-2010, 05:50 PM
    Wonderful posts thus far! Smile Your most recent one really elucidates things for me. All these negative states of manifestation seem to be ways of coping that are undertaken when the person feels that the full scope of reality can't be dealt with through acceptance.

    However, you completely lost me at the following part of post 59:

    "Type 9 is probably the first to completely get it when they learn that Aquarius is not pouring H2O out of his jug, but spiritual and electromagnetic waves of truth. The ceramic jug is not to keep the water cool, but to insulate the beam-focusing electronics inside.

    The ancients didn't have a way to represent electronics so they just drew squiggles to represent the invisible spread of knowledge waves emerging from the mouth of the shoulder-mounted Light Of Truth portable broadcasting station used by Aquarius, the original Navy SEALs, in forward deployments of spiritual Light behind enemy lines... symbolically speaking."

    Too many metaphors! Huh lol

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #69
    07-23-2010, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2010, 06:22 PM by Questioner.)
    (07-23-2010, 05:50 PM)Aaron Wrote: Wonderful posts thus far! Smile Your most recent one really elucidates things for me. All these negative states of manifestation seem to be ways of coping that are undertaken when the person feels that the full scope of reality can't be dealt with through acceptance.

    You've got it!

    The Aquarius thing is confusing because of bad editing on my part. I apologize, that should not have been included here.

    Enneagram theory does not require any point of view about astrology.

    I had some research notes about Aquarius symbolism, ET/ancient astronaut type ideas, and esoteric thought. I combined some ideas into some excessively fanciful and complex metaphorical pictures. Those notes got crammed in here where they don't particularly fit. It was a last minute addition.

    I'm going to edit that post to take out that part. It was not only put in where it doesn't belong, it also needs to be rewritten, expanded and greatly revised for clarity. Sorry about that confusing section.

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    Aaron (Offline)

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    #70
    07-23-2010, 07:21 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2010, 07:23 PM by Aaron.)
    (07-23-2010, 06:07 PM)Questioner Wrote:
    (07-23-2010, 05:50 PM)Aaron Wrote: Wonderful posts thus far! Smile Your most recent one really elucidates things for me. All these negative states of manifestation seem to be ways of coping that are undertaken when the person feels that the full scope of reality can't be dealt with through acceptance.

    You've got it!

    The Aquarius thing is confusing because of bad editing on my part. I apologize, that should not have been included here.

    Enneagram theory does not require any point of view about astrology.

    I had some research notes about Aquarius symbolism, ET/ancient astronaut type ideas, and esoteric thought. I combined some ideas into some excessively fanciful and complex metaphorical pictures. Those notes got crammed in here where they don't particularly fit. It was a last minute addition.

    I'm going to edit that post to take out that part. It was not only put in where it doesn't belong, it also needs to be rewritten, expanded and greatly revised for clarity. Sorry about that confusing section.

    Ahhh Astrology! I don't understand because I simply haven't delved the slightest bit into astrology yet. I will when/if it's time. Thank you! And please don't apologize. It's all good! Why not, as you say, rewrite or expand upon the ideas you've put up, instead of cutting out information that may be potentially useful or interesting to someone? If you feel you can best approach that area of the Enneagram with Astrological terms, then why not? Perhaps though you can add an approach that uses regular terms as well? (And by "regular" terms, I mean most commonly used terms.)

    Thanks again, my brother!

      •
    Confused (Offline)

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    #71
    07-23-2010, 07:57 PM
    (07-23-2010, 06:07 PM)Questioner Wrote: I had some research notes about Aquarius symbolism.....

    You use research notes to make these posts? Cool That is truly wonderful. Thank you for your dedication. The Enneagram is definitely helping me understand some pleasant and unpleasant portions of my own 'self'

      •
    fairyfarmgirl

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    #72
    07-23-2010, 09:22 PM
    Q-- Thank you. ---fairyfarmgirl

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #73
    07-23-2010, 10:52 PM
    You're welcome, ffg. Anything in particular that caught your interest, or just the overall vibe and flow of the series?

    C--, once I get interested in something I tend to study it in depth. I'm reviewing several different Enneagram sources as I prepare each post.

    Aaron, thanks for the idea. I'll let it go for now, because I can't concisely summarize what I meant and I don't want to take a long detour into astrology while discussing the Enneagram. Astrology threads occasionally show up here and tend to fizzle out quickly. If I see an appropriate place to reuse my Aquarius concept, I'll do so but I think it would be necessary for me to rewrite it in a much clearer way. I don't have comparable concepts for other astrology signs, so there might not be much to say there anyway.

    I hope to have the posts on types 2, 5, and 8 overview, details and spiritual growth ready over the weekend.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #74
    07-23-2010, 10:59 PM
    (07-23-2010, 10:52 PM)Questioner Wrote: Aaron, thanks for the idea. I'll let it go for now, because I can't concisely summarize what I meant and I don't want to take a long detour into astrology while discussing the Enneagram. Astrology threads occasionally show up here and tend to fizzle out quickly. If I see an appropriate place to reuse my Aquarius concept, I'll do so but I think it would be necessary for me to rewrite it in a much clearer way. I don't have comparable concepts for other astrology signs, so there might not be much to say there anyway.

    I agree that a digression into astrology can bring in various distortions upon the essential theme of this thread. But it could be useful to be flexible. For instance, I see a close correlation between the Tarot and the Enneagram. I do not refer to the Tarot here as an astrological widget; but as a means of studying individual polarity within a matrix. From what I have read so far from you, the Enneagram too appears to faintly delineate a 'right hand' path or the 'left hand' path (in short - the two essential polarities of the current matrix).

    My point is that let us not predetermine to include or leave anything out. We will stick to the trunk, but if the branches sprout into unexpected directions, let us not be too hasty into pruning it. The view from anyone of those branches could finally prove to be breathtaking.

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #75
    07-23-2010, 11:25 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2010, 11:31 PM by Questioner.)
    Well, you seem intensely curious about my digression, so I'll give it another shot.

    In astrology, the symbol of Aquarius is a person who seems to have a large ceramic water jug over his shoulder, from which he's pouring out the water.
    The way to notate Aquarius in a chart is to use a series of squiggly lines that look like waves.
    If this simple view of the symbol is correct, then the jug would probably help keep the water cool and refreshing, until someone with whom he can share a drink comes on by.

    The built-in contradiction is that there are water signs, but Aquarius isn't one of them. It's an air sign.

    The solution has been pointed out by several astrology writers throughout recent decades. The squiggly lines of Aquarius are not water waves at all. They are electromagnetic, radio, or spiritual waves that can travel through the air.
    If you were to get an introduction to astrology text written in recent years, it would likely refer to this concept. I wouldn't mind if the writer didn't like this concept, but if it wasn't mentioned at all I'd wonder if the writer bothers to do his or her homework.

    To this standard picture, I added some additional flights of fancy since we were looking at high-tech electronics that operate through a distance, using fields, without requiring physical contact. Microwave, radio, and laser technology are examples of these kinds of innovations in the past century. I wondered, if Aquarius is distributing electromagnetic waves out of his jug, wouldn't that mean he has some kind of transmitter inside the jug? If so, wouldn't that mean that the ceramic shell of the jug is not ancient old-fashioned basics, but perhaps a modern approach to having an insulating container for sophisticated equipment? What if the shape of the jug is not an arbitrary water holder that's easy to make on a pottery wheel, but is a specifically tuned, resonant chamber whose shape helps gather the wavelengths that he's projecting?

    On top of that flight of fancy, I added an additional one. What if Aquarius is a member of an elite force that is dropped off by stealth behind enemy lines, in order to gather information, beam disruption at the enemy technology, and spread news to the population about their chance to have an uprising? What if his rig is the largest portable, over the shoulder broadcasting system that the most elite forces could sneak past the guards, in advance of an invasion that will liberate the oppressed?

    Now if something like this was true, type 9 would most likely be the first sign to comprehend such matters. (Assuming the explanation was clearly written enough, unlike my first attempt... I don't know if this second attempt qualifies.) In fact, since type 9 naturally thinks in terms of fields, waves, "spooky action at a distance" (a physics term) and so forth, type 9 might have already intuited what this is all about even before I come along with a long-winded way to explain it.

    As a result, I suspect that type 9 has, by far, the easiest time of any of the types taking the Ra material seriously and seeing how the overall big picture relates to the flows, forces, divine harmony and so forth that already permeate their awareness. Other types take longer to get it. My comment about a theme of my Dad's work was something I only realized this week, working on these essays, even though I knew about those projects of his since high school. It's taken me long enough for the music of the day to go out of style, before I ever realized there was a type 9 style theme there of fields and environmental actions as the key to his work.

    So that is what I meant as an illustration of type 9 consciousness. If this explanation doesn't make sense I can try another or let it go.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #76
    07-23-2010, 11:43 PM
    (07-23-2010, 11:25 PM)Questioner Wrote: What if Aquarius is a member of an elite force .....

    Fascinating. I resonate with many things that you have written on the Aquarius symbolism. But I would just like to present my humble and uninformed point of view that may be there is no positive 'elite force' behind 'enemy' lines. If anything, we all individually and collectively will comprise the 'elite force', if only we care with discipline to raise and ameliorate the vibrations of this planet.

    I am now not going to present any more questions that will take you away from your original presentation. I look forward towards your next installment on the rest of the Enneagram.

      •
    fairyfarmgirl

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    #77
    07-24-2010, 12:00 AM
    I am a type 9. I understood perfectly! LOL

    I enjoy reading the series. It is a fascinatingly well written easy to understand guide to the ennegram. So thank you. I am learning much! As you are describing each ennegram I find myself saying ohhh so that's why so and so did such and such and here is how I can be better at creating and maintaining and empowering peace.

    --fairyfarmgirl

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    Aaron (Offline)

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    #78
    07-24-2010, 10:36 AM
    Brilliant! I understand much better now, Q. Thank you! Smile

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #79
    07-24-2010, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 07-24-2010, 03:59 PM by Questioner.)
    C--, I agree that a military metaphor breaks down when applied too strictly to the sharing of light and love.

    You're welcome, Aaron and Fairy. This kind of feedback helps me feel great about my contributions. Continuing around the Enneagram:

    All the types participate in the lines of integration. Unlike types 3, 6, and 9, which connect in a simple triangle, the remaining six types connect in a much more complex pattern. We'll need to look at all the remaining types before we can draw in the lines.

    With types 3, 6, and 9, we saw three different ways to respond to other people. It's a bit tough to see that type 3's self-development is really responsive, but it is. Type 3 responds to the individual's potential for growth that can be received and developed, and/or to the individual's potential to receive acclaim and admiration from other people. In type 9 the responsiveness can be to the environment, just as much as to other people.

    With types 2, 5, and 8, we will see something different: three ways for a person to reach out and take action, imposing their understand and willpower onto the external situation.

    Type 2, on the positive side, imposes their willpower on themselves to push hard at activities that show love and caring. On the negative side, they barge in, do what's not asked for or welcomed, and then demand to be showered with loving devotion to fill their emptiness.

    Type 5, on the positive side, imposes their willpower on their mind to diligently observe, analyze, and understand their world. Their innate use of the scientific method blesses everyone with a deeper understanding. On the negative side, they can become an isolated radical with ideas disconnected from reality.

    Type 8, on the positive side, imposes their willpower by being a leader with a vision that inspires other people to follow. On the negative side, they combatively demand that everyone do as they demand, just because they said so.

    I have the type 2 essay ready to post, as soon as there's a post to divide it from this one. I am working on types 5 and 8.

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    Lorna (Offline)

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    #80
    07-24-2010, 06:44 PM
    dividing post herewith Smile
    thanks again for sharing this Questioner, really, really interesting and your work in pulling it together for us is very much appreciated

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #81
    07-24-2010, 06:54 PM
    Thanks Lorna.

    Type 2: The Helper

    Enneagram type 2 is the energy of REALLY wanting to know that one is loved, as the ultimate concern of life. Obviously every type can appreciate love, but type 2 discusses love as a big deal, and is driven by search for love, more than any other.

    A great healthy way to be loved is to first be loving. Understand what is important to other people, help them feel cared about, understood, and practically helped (on their own terms), and one will then be confident that one is lovable and loved because one is loving. If one is connected inside one's own heart, mind, and soul to God's unconditional love and positive regard, then one can share loving support and helpfulness where one can, and then enjoy being at peace in a loving environment (whether or not other people are around) when there's no more one can give right now.

    When a healthy positive type 2 works hard to be of service in love, they have every good reason to be proud of how hard they are working to serve their family, relationships, friends, company, co-workers, society and the planet. A person like this can be unbelievably charming, a wonderful addition to one's life, and everyone actually IS "very happy to meet you, my dear."

    The positive sides of this loving generosity should be obvious for everyone involved. So I'll take a bit more time to focus on the negatives. How can it be a detriment to be too loving? And how can being loving and helpful actually be a strategy for expressing one's power over the world?

    An unhealthy way to be loved is to try to get people obligated to thank you for your meddling, while totally burning yourself out to total depletion. Afraid of being unloved, an unhealthy type 2 can be resentful that other people are loved more. Too wrapped up in their own fear to be present and empathetic with other people, the type 2 then is busy, full of unasked for favors that in their own imagination should compel the other person to have to love them.

    This strategy winds up pushing the resentment outside, others resent being manipulated, and the 2 spirals down with even more anger about being unloved. Strangely enough, no collection of manipulative masks adds up to a whole and healthy personality.

    When stuck in this negativity, type 2 can talk themselves into assuming that sex, flirtation, and love, are all the same thing, and become anxious and enraged if they don't get enough of any of these experiences. Yet the increased physical attention does not make up for the emotional estrangement from those that don't reciprocate as expected in a way that makes the type 2 FEEL loved inside their own heart.

    That's because no surplus of human activity from outside can substitute for a connection with God's love from inside.

    At work, this can result in a positive person who is truly caring and helpful to others because it brings inner joy, whether or not it's acknowledged. Or it can result in a negative person who tries to butter up the right people, whisper directives into their ears but hide from any recognition of who is the power behind the throne.

    The childhood fear, that can unconsciously lived out in adult life is, is that maybe Daddy doesn't really love me, so I'd better be more sweet and good, even if I don't feel like it, just to be sure. Type 2 drives could also be related to times in childhood, or any time we were helpless and dependent, and felt we had to be and do something greater in order to win loving help and support.

    For type 2, "I love you" might actually mean, "I delight that when I do things for you, I get back your attention in a way that I interpret as making me feel special." Therefore, love is conditional on the performance of the beloved. Any shortfall in praise, gifts, cards, compliments and so forth can be taken as proof that there's no more love within the other person's heart.

    And any criticism, even realistic, valid suggestions of how to do better, can be taken by an insecure, poorly developed type 2 as an attack on their very worthiness as a human being.

    This all makes it a very complicated dance to try to negotiate anything. It's even harder when the beloved doesn't know they're the target of a fixer-upper project in which their flaws that don't bother them will be removed, whether they like it or not, so that the Extreme Makeover: Type 2 Grandiosity Edition can prove how deep the love of the type 2 is: powerful enough to change "even that bad person," whatever poor rogue is chosen. Fairy tales in which unsuitable partners magically transform into just what is needed, through the power of love, can have great appeal here.

    Although I don't care much for Dr. Laura Schlessinger's point of view, she makes an excellent point here. If you want a pet that fits in your room, wags its tail and barks, then trying to train an elephant to do all these things doesn't show loving devotion, just poor judgment! Yet the type 2 dog lover can pick one elephant after another, and seek praise and pity for how hard they suffered to try to turn the elephant into a good enough dog!

    It's obvious that type 2 is working hard to be charming, a gracious host, a diligent worker who does the right thing, very respectful to those in charge, loving and kind. It's not at all obvious how much comes from a genuine abundance of love in their own hearts to share, starting with their own self-love, and how much is to try to get others to to give enough love to fill the endless hole of uncertainty and neediness.

    Although some of these qualities are socially associated with insecure women, they can just as well apply to an insecure man; and the proliferation of unsolicited advice can be more like the way an unbalanced society expects men to behave badly.

    When there is even a simple task without a chance of interpersonal payoff, it is excessively complex, infuriating and STUPID to an immature type 2. Why go count the inventory in the back room if there's nobody else back there to appreciate how much you're knocking yourself out to be loving?

    Some examples:
    Poetic expressions and theories about "LUUV" come from Barry Manilow, Lionel Richie, and Leo Buscaglia.
    A central role as the key person within a community who shows LUUV for all, whether or not this is spoken out loud, is shown by Bill Cosby, Alan Alda, and Dr McCoy. I really feel that when Hawkeye Pierce journaled, "I really love you all," that didn't require any stretch of acting.
    People who used a position of power or trusted leadership to guide others with LUUV include Mother Teresa, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Ann Landers.

    At best, unconditional love, empathetic caring, help in terms the other person can appreciate.
    On average, a mixture of delightful glimpses of the best, plus contradictory glimpses of the worst of selfishly intrusive seduction and unhealthy games with one undeclared rule: make me feel special!
    At worst, undermine self and others, cutting people down so that they'll need this exclusive source of condescencion to bring them back up, coercively rationalizing, mired in the depths of impulsive, explosive borderline personality disorder.

    The most promising BPD treatment, by the way, is Marsha Linehan's education in mindfulness... which happens to sound a whole lot like Ra's exercises of seeing the love in each moment, the Creator in other selves and in the mirror, and loving peace within whether or not other people are behaving peacefully or lovingly. This results in faith in a God big enough to provide a lifetime's worth of love from within, whether or not other people are stereotypically loving in their behavior from outside.

    It might seem at first that being so loving is a Yin activity. Actually, the desire to push hard to change other people's lives may be the most Yang of all the points of the Enneagram. At best, the push is an internal drive to do what is truly, objectively helpful for others, and thereby create the inner satisfaction of being loving and helpful. At worst, the push is an outside manipulation to try to get people to enact whatever roles are imagined to fulfill one's own inner demands.

    After next divider post, type 5. I'm working on the type 8 essay. Then will be the series about what God can mean to this next batch of three types. As always, questions and comments are more than welcome!

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    fairyfarmgirl

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    #82
    07-25-2010, 09:02 AM
    2's sound like some people I know in my life. Very challenging to be around all that drama. --fairyfarmgirl

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #83
    07-25-2010, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 07-25-2010, 10:53 AM by Questioner.)
    I agree, ffg. On to type 5.

    Type 5: The Thinker or Investigator

    Type 5's primary inner drive is to feel that they understand the world.

    An effective strategy is to observe the world, create ideas about the world that are tested against reality, and thereby better understand the world. All of this happens calmly, and never taken in by anyone else's shenanigans. This is the positive side of type 5. At best, the ideas are breathtakingly original. Yet they also are obvious breakthrough in concisely powerful understanding. Even if there's no breakthrough, the positive type 5 loves to be the master of at least one particular niche.

    An ineffective strategy is to be terrified that the world can't be understood, then withdraw from reality and invent imaginary scenarios. Then terror about these scenarios, as though they are real, inspires further fear in a downward spiral. Fearful of making a mistake, additional abstract study substitutes for learning from experience.

    The negative spiral is broken when the fearful ideas are tested against reality and found lacking. The self-scaring scenario is replaced by realistic understanding based on accurate observation. There actually is at least a small good thing that can be understood and done.

    A healthy type 5 can be observant, pragmatic, factual, and specific. Positive feelings may be present, but not need to be said, because loving actions express them. If given their own space, they may well respond by choosing to get closer. At work, they can be a great analyst if they have their own time and space to think, rather than being put on the spot.

    An unhealthy type 5 can be private, detached from even their healthy and appropriate feelings. They can feel overwhelmed by even positive human contact. They can go beyond mastery of a technical situation, to also manipulates politics. They do this by hoarding the vital secrets that make them indispensable yet aloof. Requests for documentation (which would let anyone else be able to fix the system) are turned aside based on claims that nobody else could understand it anyway.

    Fundamentally ambivalent to both parents, if their unconscious drives never come to the surface therapeutically, they can be afraid of getting suffocated by other people's demands, yet also want a connection they don't know how to ask for. Safer to just master the facts and let other people - "the mundanes" - go away with their incomprehensible feelings, their strange body awareness and delight in the physical world. Why, some of that might be downright ambiguous, impossible to capture in a spreadsheet!

    In healthy life, these ambivalent feelings are resolved by healthy, mutually respectful give and take interactions with other people as true peers and equals. The type 5 person is the acknowledged expert of their part of the process. They know they doesn't have to hide their techniques to be respected. At the same time, they respect the expertise of other people, including those who reach valid results through an intuitive, holistic, fluid emotional process.

    If social memory complexes have their own enneagram type, this would be the stereotype of a science fiction convention. Individually, an ideal home as defined by type 5 would include moat and drawbridge, library, high def TV with subwoofer, and the latest Internet technology. If funds are available, the castle may well be stocked with enough ramen noodles, gold coins, and ammo to last through the Second Coming. There might be a poster chart in the laundry room, with a grid indicating when it will be time to buy new underwear.

    With the goal of privacy, it's safe to talk about the weather and the equations that can predict it; and to discuss psychological theories as an alternative to expressing a simple, heartfelt feeling other than aloof superiority and isolation.

    I dealt with an abundance of type 5's in my computer engineering career. An ideal birthday gift would be a larger wall-mounted whiteboard. This will let them add more factors into their master flowchart, and they'll be delighted at how much you understand and care about their needs. For stocking stuffers, anything with a USB port is a great choice. (Say you get then a USB-powered stapler with colorful blinking lights. It doesn't matter that adding flashing LED's to a stapler makes no sense. The fact that you can plug it into your computer and download your own color timing sequence is frickin' awesome!)

    Type 5 analysts of nature: Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking.
    Type 5 analysts of technology and business: Bill Gates, J. Paul Getty, Howard Hughes, Reginald Barclay in Star Trek. The curious aliens expanded his mind so he could make the engines modify the nature of space/time, rather than traveling through it. "I perceive the universe as a single equation, and it is so simple. I understand everything." Sure, that was awareness from the Cytherian probe, but they had to have something to work with.
    Type 5 masters of analytical art and music: Stanley Kubrick, John Lennon, Laurie Anderson, Glenn Gould, Trent Reznor, Vincent Van Gogh, David Byrne.
    Type 5 tellers of well-considered stories: Ursala LeGuinn, Tim Burton, David Lynch, Stephen King.
    Type 5 appreciators of the humorously absurd: Gary Larson, Lily Tomlin.
    Type 5 explorers of what's just beyond analysis: Fox Mulder, The Buddha, Ken Wilber.

    Type 8 introduction is ready to post after the next comment or question. The posts on spiritual evolution for types 2, 5, and 8 will follow later today, or in a day or two.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #84
    07-25-2010, 11:10 AM
    (07-25-2010, 10:52 AM)Questioner Wrote: Type 5's primary inner drive is to feel that they understand the world.

    Type 5's strangely remind me of some strong Cancerian (the Zodiac) traits. There are some arcane questions welling up that I will reserve for later. Thanks Q.

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #85
    07-25-2010, 11:30 AM
    That's an interesting connection. If you have questions about how types 2, 5, and 8 work, please feel free to post them.

    Type 8: the leader or challenger

    Type 8 has a fundamental goal of projecting strong power into the world. A great way towards this goal is to have an independent, powerful point of view that inspires others to join in. A poor way towards this goal is to fear being manipulated, and therefore be controlling and argumentative to ensure nobody else gets their way first.

    At best, the type 8's self-mastery comes from devotion to a higher cause. A strong, but not fully optimal, use of type 8 energy is to be a self-confident individualist who inspires respect and cooperation.

    A mediocre type 8 is belligerent and intimidating, trying to control others through fear rather than deal with their own fear of being controlled. As a negative type 8 slides downhill, the narcissistic exhibitionism gets ever more grandiose. There's only respect for those who fight their way to the top of the heap, or provide the greatest thrills of sex, drugs and outrageous nightlife. Intensity gets mixed up with love, including fighting and making up as a power play. Other people are increasingly sliced into black-and-white terms: "If you aren't with us you're against us." The worst of type 8 dictates and uses reprisals to antisocially smash everything and anyone that opposes them.

    Along the slide down, they increasingly demand to tell you what you're thinking and what you should do to praise them and follow their ever-changing rules in a more exciting, destabilized way that gives them a greater thrill. The military term, "Identify friend or foe" is how they view every moment of life.

    A positive type 8 can be truly concerned about justice, and step in to fill a void of leadership. A negative type 8 can view justice as meaning they get whatever the hell they want right damn now, and leadership as their endless bossing around of the people who only exist to serve them and then be discarded.

    The underlying emotional compulsion can be driven by ambivalence to Mom. If she sees one as the good kid, she'll bestow goodies. But that comes at the cost of giving up one's own identity. This fight for survival on one's own terms can also be triggered by other experiences of being helplessly dependent on other people, who can't be trusted but could be overpowered, judged, condemned and manipulated.

    With positive spiritual evolution, type 8 takes full responsibility for his or her own life, regardless of external difficulties, obstacles, and challenges. Vigorously speaking truth to power, they inspire others with a compelling vision of a better world worth fighting for today. They realize that being honest, heartfelt, tender, gentle and loving in everyday life, takes nothing away from a warrior's ability to fight when necessary.

    They can champion a greater cause, honor those who see the world differently, responsibly end "collateral damage" with true compassion, renew their connection to their highest insights and truths, and build something far greater than monuments to their own grandiosity. Rather than having to seize what others have in lust, they can generously share from their own abundant natures with magnanimity. They let their pain be expressed and drained in socially safe ways rather than by lashing out at others to force them to suffer.

    Any type 8 should be reasonably adept at preparing an emergency response, perimeter defense, disaster recovery plan. When there is a need to shock others out of inertia or complacency, the type 8 should be able to provide this alarm-clock service. If there is ground worth claiming, a need to stay standing despite the approaching hurricane, the type 8 may well be the last man or woman standing.

    A fight against real injustice is valiant. A fight against having one's own injustices revealed is the dismal quest of the sociopath. No matter where a type 8 hails from, the straight-talking, outspoken, in-your-face directness of the classic "New Yawker" probably suits them just fine.

    Type 8's of politics, who never backed down from their opinion: MLK, Rush Limbaugh, Golda Meir.
    Type 8's of business, who won't back down: Lee Iococca, Donald Trump.
    Type 8's of art, who won't back down from their unique vision: Picasso, Wagner.
    Type 8's of drama, don't you dare back them into a corner: Sean Connery, John Wayne, Sigourney Weaver, Humphrey Bogart, Bruce Lee.
    Type 8's of music who stand their ground: Frank Sinatra, James Brown, Grace Slick.
    Type 8's of metaphysics who will damn well tell you you believe, for your own good: Gurdjieff, Milton Erickson.

    To summarize this second batch of three: types 2, 5, and 8 show three energy patterns for pushing our span of control out into the world - over other people through loving service, over the facts of the matter by diligent analysis, and over society by calling for followers.

    At best, type 2 gives what they can afford to give to those happy to receive it, fully aware of both themselves and others; type 5 crafts empowering new concepts, fully aware of both their mental state and the world it's supposed to represent; type 8 leads by providing an inspiring vision worth following.

    At worst, type 2 gives what depletes them to those who don't want it, escalating a spiral of resentment; type 5 makes frightening fantasies separated from reality; type 8 becomes the demanding destroyer who leaches off anyone that can be intimidated.

    Next up: what beliefs about God can inspire greatness or poverty of spirit for these three types. I don't have those essays written yet. Please feel free to discuss anything I've posted so far, I'll let you know if I'm going to get to it later.

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #86
    07-25-2010, 11:45 AM
    Q, one question that I find rising in my mind is whether a free flow across all the energy centers of the Enneagram gives rise to what in hermetic literature is called the 'divine mind' or Pymander (if I remember right). I know I am knitting various concepts together, but they all seem to have a connection.

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #87
    07-25-2010, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 07-25-2010, 12:16 PM by Questioner.)
    I'm not familiar with the term Pymander.

    The ultimate highest level of each type is enlightenment, responding intuitively and with all one's self in the moment, free of any preconditioned responses or stereotyped thoughts and feelings. This experience is larger than any vocabulary, so it has been described by many different people using their own words.

    I just did a web search on Pymander and noticed this in the second link on Google's results. It seems to me this might be exactly the same vision that George Fox had, which I quoted in an earlier post in this thread.

    Quote: And thereafter I saw the darkness changing into a Watery Substance, which was unspeakably tossed about.... But from the Light there came forth a holy Speech, which took its stand upon the Watery Substance, and methought this Word was the voice of the Light.

    Which in turn corresponds to Genesis 1:2-3.
    Quote:And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    And those might be an experience of what Ra describes in session 13.
    Quote:You must imagine a great leap of thought in this query, for at the last query the physical, as you call, it, universes were not yet born.

    The energies moved in increasingly intelligent patterns until the individualization of various energies emanating from the creative principle of intelligent infinity became such as to be co-Creators. Thus the so-called physical matter began. The concept of light is instrumental in grasping this great leap of thought as this vibrational distortion of infinity is the building block of that which is known as matter, the light being intelligent and full of energy, thus being the first distortion of intelligent infinity which was called by the creative principle.

    I imagine that the types might be compared to ocean waves that tend to travel in various directions. A person with a less evolved nature will drift along with whatever wave already happened to carry them along. The upper part of everyday life would be that we choose to use a rudder and turn our sails to choose our own direction.

    At the highest level we'd have a balloon or aircraft that rises up above the waves. In human life we can't stay aloft forever, but we can get enough perspective, up into the Light, so that we set back down in a tide or current that is going in the direction we want to go now. And we can maintain enough buoyancy to not get sucked back into any particular wave tossing us back and forth.

    I've only occasionally touched the closer edge of this kind of perspective. The key thing about it is that our old skills don't apply. Someone who got really masterful at using oars, to paddle through the water, will find that skill doesn't help much up in the sky.

    Some visionaries are like a helicopter with a rope they can toss down. It takes a lot of courage and faith down in the boat to let go of the oars and grab the rope from up above, since that's totally different behavior than what got you this far. I do aspire to apply more of these lessons as my life progresses.

    I hope the mixed metaphors aren't too muddled here.

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    fairyfarmgirl

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    #88
    07-25-2010, 08:29 PM
    Thank you, Q for such wonderful information. Once again I know a couple of 5's (boy are you right about the USB cords) and a couple of 8's. --fairyfarmgirl

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    Confused (Offline)

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    #89
    07-25-2010, 08:54 PM
    Dear Q, thank you for the great elucidation. Now I think I should ask the question that I feel is central to understanding the concept of the mind, which largely determines personality types. Do you have any idea as to what the phrase "one original thought" that Ra (and many other channels use) means?

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    Questioner (Offline)

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    #90
    07-25-2010, 10:33 PM
    You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

    Ffg, seems that the type descriptions are clear enough for you to recognize some individuals you know. If you'd like to jump in with some anecdotes or comments, please feel free.

    C--, in the Law of One material, the impression I get is that the original thought was that creation & exploration of diversity would be a really cool way for aware Infinity to experience more of its own love. From session 13:
    Quote:The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.

    In our current 3D human life on earth, our local Logos, the spiritual nature of the Sun, offers archetypes as templates for us to use in creating our own minds. According to this teaching, then, archetypes are from outside of human consciousness. The archetypes are the gift of a set of tools that can be useful to the growth of human consciousness. Ra goes through those in great detail using tarot symbolism, and also recommends astrology and kaballah as other ways to learn these archetypes.

    Now I see the Enneagram as offering something different than the spiritual archetypes. I see the Enneagram as a description of ways that the human mind can get itself stuck. By being aware of these ways, the human mind can get itself unstuck and free to move again.

    A car analogy just popped into mind. When learning to drive a car, the engine, transmission, gas tank, etc. are key components we need to understand. Any car would include these components in its own way. These components are archetypes of any car. Meanwhile, there are some common ways to drive badly, such as swerving too sharply, following too closely, stomping on the gas and brake pedals at the same time, etc. The Enneagram is like a description of these bad driving habits so that we can be free of them. Suppose that each of these techniques, usually a sign of a bad driver, could be put in some positive way... such as sharp swerving as a good technique if you are avoiding a deer in the road. In the same way, type 8 energy is exactly the right thing if you really do have an important message bringing justice to all people.

    As for the deeper meaning of "one original thought," that might deserve its own discussion thread in the Strictly Law of One forum.

    I expect to be able to keep the conversation going, but with some other big projects this week it might take a few days for me to have the next batch of essays.

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