Taras Bulba?

[Mat]

Hello

I signed up to this forum to ask this question regarding this passage:

11.9 ↥ Questioner: Are any of these people known in the history of our planet by name?

Ra: I am Ra. We will mention a few. The one known as Taras Bulba, the one known as Genghis Khan, the one known as Rasputin.

As I understand it, Taras Bulba is a fictional character, so is this an instance of the Law of Confusion?


Very best wishes,

Mat

[dreamliner]

There is a search facility in the forum, where you can find previous discussions/topic by means of keyword search:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=5865


Nevertheless, quite interesting; I had always assumed that there was someone named as taras bulba in the history..

My explanation is;
1- "taras bulba" has either slipped through Carla's mind,
2- or Ra had 2 options to refer to the person; they would either use his real name [which would not be appropriate because his real name was not known/famous or recorded by history, and if Ra had disclosed taras bulba's real identity/name and at the same time had revealed that he was taras bulba then it might have been an infringement on free will(remember from Law of One that, any information proving Ra's existence is an infringement upon free wills of audience)] or use the name invented by Gogol while writing his famous "Taras Bulba". It seems that most probably there was someone in the history who did what taras bulba did: "The character of Taras Bulba is a composite of several historical personalities. It is mainly based on the legend of cossack captain Sava Chaly (executed in 1741 after serving as a colonel in the private army of a Polish noble), whose killing was ordered by his own father for betraying the Ukrainian cause":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulb..._character

[Mat]

There is a search facility in the forum, where you can find previous discussions/topic by means of keyword search:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=5865


Nevertheless, quite interesting; I had always assumed that there was someone named as taras bulba in the history..

My explanation is;
1- "taras bulba" has either slipped through Carla's mind,
2- or Ra had 2 options to refer to the person; they would either use his real name (which would not be appropriate because his real name was not known/famous or recorded by history, and if Ra gave taras bulba's real identity/name and at the same time reveal that he was taras bulba then it might have been an infringement on free will) or use the name invented by Gogol while writing his famous "Taras Bulba". It seems that most probably there was someone in the history who did what taras bulba did: "The main character іs based on several historical personalities, and other characters are not аs exaggerated or grotesque as was common in Gogol's later fiction":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulb..._character

Thank you Dreamliner. Both options seem plausible. I guess its key to understanding that its not like a maths equation - at a fundamental level there must be doubt and uncertainty. I just found this particular instance hard to make sense of, even with the inherent confusion

Thanks again,

Mat

[eccentric1]

There is a search facility in the forum, where you can find previous discussions/topic by means of keyword search:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=5865


Nevertheless, quite interesting; I had always assumed that there was someone named as taras bulba in the history..

My explanation is;
1- "taras bulba" has either slipped through Carla's mind,
2- or Ra had 2 options to refer to the person; they would either use his real name (which would not be appropriate because his real name was not known/famous or recorded by history, and if Ra gave taras bulba's real identity/name and at the same time reveal that he was taras bulba then it might have been an infringement on free will) or use the name invented by Gogol while writing his famous "Taras Bulba". It seems that most probably there was someone in the history who did what taras bulba did: "The main character іs based on several historical personalities, and other characters are not аs exaggerated or grotesque as was common in Gogol's later fiction":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Bulb..._character

Thank you Dreamliner. Both options seem plausible. I guess its key to understanding that its not like a maths equation - at a fundamental level there must be doubt and uncertainty. I just found this particular instance hard to make sense of, even with the inherent confusion

Thanks again,

Mat

I was on this one for a very long time & Dreamliner pretty much hit it on the head with his response. I am in the US & my family & I took a trip to Eastern Europe last year where we met some of our 3rd & 4th cousins in Eastern Europe, mainly Poland & Slovakia, & I asked them that very question. They were a little surprised I even knew about the story, but their consensus was pretty much that it was an amalgamation of a small handful of people that were active at that time.

The biggest thing you have to remember when reading this material is that it transcends duality. That is why we have terms such as time/space or space/time or teach/learn & so on.....

In order to be accurate & precise you have to "cover all the bases" so-to-speak & acknowledge openly that any given thing conceptualized or spoken of has more than one meaning or application.

As far as the Taras Bulba entity, it is left up to you to interpret how you will. I mean, really though...... how much of historical figures can actually be proven to exist? Do we have skeletal remains? How many of them have monuments built to them? How many people can corroborate what kind person he/she was? What is the standard of proof for the existence of any given person or character throughout history? The more you go in the direction of what is called "the past" or "the future" - the more you realize that ultimately it is just your imagination at work & all you really truly have is NOW.

Living moment to moment seems like an almost impossible & unproductive thing to do in this 3d-going-into-4d world, but honestly, it's the most liberating, original, & sincere activity you can perform.

Peace, Love, & Happiness stuff,

~ Thomas

[Mat]

Hey eccentric1.

Thank's for your thoughts.

I guess for me the currently looming prospect is that the changelings are a delusion or a hoax. I don't believe that currently but still, rationally, I am engaged in this sceptical process and so far the only thing that might be confirmation of that is this Taras Bulba aspect.

There might be more as I read the other books... even so, these potential errors, as said, might be there for reasons of free will and all that.

Onwards we seek

Namaste,

Mat

[eccentric1]

Hey eccentric1.

Thank's for your thoughts.

I guess for me the currently looming prospect is that the changelings are a delusion or a hoax. I don't believe that currently but still, rationally, I am engaged in this sceptical process and so far the only thing that might be confirmation of that is this Taras Bulba aspect.

There might be more as I read the other books... even so, these potential errors, as said, might be there for reasons of free will and all that.

Onwards we seek

Namaste,

Mat

Changelings? Please define and/or restate.

Delusion? Hoax? Please define. What is your definition of reality? Which reality are you referring to? I can completely unravel everything you say because we are talking about an esoteric topic at it's most extreme level.

The Law of One explores what we know/think we know (about everything) but places that knowledge/information/awareness into what I like to call "an infinite twist" on everything. Have you ever tried to wrap your head around infinity? I mean seriously! We are so conditioned to walk around looking at our toes, working & living in cubicles, doing one thing or another day in & day out, never connecting anything or anyone to one another. Here you are presented with this gi-normous body of Q&A that attempts to include everything in its responses.... that's a tall order, don't you think? The universe is not about salt or pepper, it's about salt and pepper! The entire conversation is about transcending duality..... keep that in mind at all times.

I would recommend reviewing the "Cosmology" section of TLoO...... it always helps to put things into perspective.

I recommend remaining skeptical, its a healthy attitude to have, just don't let it turn into being cynical.... that's where all the distortions come in to play & really muck things up! But, as always, it's your choice to do so (or not!).....

As far as so-called "errors" go.... I throw it all up to distortion.... The Ra contact went to absurd lengths to be as precise as possible given the circumstances (& so did L/L) & the results show when you stand it up to other channelled material. I may sound somewhat elitist in that remark, but honestly, the material has far more a ring of truth to it (for me at least), than most else of what is out there.

If you ever have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Send me a PM for some additional links to reading material, as well as video, that I think will assist you in your ongoing search for the truth....

Peace, Love, & Happiness stuff,

~ Thomas

P.S. - This is not from TLoO, but from Q'uo - & I recommend anyone reading this post to review it: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0514.aspx

[AnthroHeart]

I like what you say eccentric1. I'd like to see some of those videos that help with finding truth.

[Mat]

Changelings? Please define and/or restate.

Delusion? Hoax? Please define. What is your definition of reality? Which reality are you referring to? I can completely unravel everything you say because we are talking about an esoteric topic at it's most extreme level.

The Law of One explores what we know/think we know (about everything) but places that knowledge/information/awareness into what I like to call "an infinite twist" on everything. Have you ever tried to wrap your head around infinity? I mean seriously! We are so conditioned to walk around looking at our toes, working & living in cubicles, doing one thing or another day in & day out, never connecting anything or anyone to one another. Here you are presented with this gi-normous body of Q&A that attempts to include everything in its responses.... that's a tall order, don't you think? The universe is not about salt or pepper, it's about salt and pepper! The entire conversation is about transcending duality..... keep that in mind at all times.

I would recommend reviewing the "Cosmology" section of TLoO...... it always helps to put things into perspective.

I recommend remaining skeptical, its a healthy attitude to have, just don't let it turn into being cynical.... that's where all the distortions come in to play & really muck things up! But, as always, it's your choice to do so (or not!).....

As far as so-called "errors" go.... I throw it all up to distortion.... The Ra contact went to absurd lengths to be as precise as possible given the circumstances (& so did L/L) & the results show when you stand it up to other channelled material. I may sound somewhat elitist in that remark, but honestly, the material has far more a ring of truth to it (for me at least), than most else of what is out there.

If you ever have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Send me a PM for some additional links to reading material, as well as video, that I think will assist you in your ongoing search for the truth....

Peace, Love, & Happiness stuff,

~ Thomas

P.S. - This is not from TLoO, but from Q'uo - & I recommend anyone reading this post to review it: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0514.aspx

Thank you Thomas

Sorry in my haste I typed Channelings as Changelings....

"Delusion? Hoax? Please define. "


I mean by this simply that the whole Ra Material might be a premeditated hoax aimed to trick mankind by L/L Research or it make be the product of Carla's delusional Mind. I don't think it is either, but the possibility is there.

Individual Delusion:

When reading the transcripts I am blown away by the wisdom and originality of the messages. I don't think one person could produce that in a stream of thought, even a genius! It is that special, as I am sure all here will agree. I purchased the recordings to listen to and this cemented my conviction to this point. Listening to them blew me away.

Premeditated Hoax:

It could be that the team went out to trick us. this wouldn't be the first time people have done such things and it remains a possibility to me, however slight. It would not only involve Carl acting out the Channelings but it would also require an insight and genius to write them in the first place.

What did sway me a bit towards this possibility was the Taras Bulba inclusion, I thought it was possible that the hoaxers had mistakenly used a fictional character as an actual character, ergo a smoking gun. I tried to reason out how this could be and came up with some ideas, as discussed. Then on this forum I got more convinced that the Taras Bulba was not evidence of hoax or delusion, but something that belongs to the mystery and confusion of it all.


I come from a hard-core skeptical materialist position, the first time I read the material years ago I smirked, now, more and more (I was reading and meditating on it last night), I am in awe and reverence of it all. It is life changing, as you know.

Thank's again for your words, I will message you about those links and things

namaste,

mat

[eccentric1]

[/quote]
Thank you Thomas

Sorry in my haste I typed Channelings as Changelings....

"Delusion? Hoax? Please define. "

I mean by this simply that the whole Ra Material might be a premeditated hoax aimed to trick mankind by L/L Research or it make be the product of Carla's delusional Mind. I don't think it is either, but the possibility is there.

Individual Delusion:

When reading the transcripts I am blown away by the wisdom and originality of the messages. I don't think one person could produce that in a stream of thought, even a genius! It is that special, as I am sure all here will agree. I purchased the recordings to listen to and this cemented my conviction to this point. Listening to them blew me away.

Premeditated Hoax:

It could be that the team went out to trick us. this wouldn't be the first time people have done such things and it remains a possibility to me, however slight. It would not only involve Carl acting out the Channelings but it would also require an insight and genius to write them in the first place.

What did sway me a bit towards this possibility was the Taras Bulba inclusion, I thought it was possible that the hoaxers had mistakenly used a fictional character as an actual character, ergo a smoking gun. I tried to reason out how this could be and came up with some ideas, as discussed. Then on this forum I got more convinced that the Taras Bulba was not evidence of hoax or delusion, but something that belongs to the mystery and confusion of it all.

I come from a hard-core skeptical materialist position, the first time I read the material years ago I smirked, now, more and more (I was reading and meditating on it last night), I am in awe and reverence of it all. It is life changing, as you know.

Thank's again for your words, I will message you about those links and things
namaste,
mat
[/quote]

I would recommend never losing the skeptical stance.... & yes, the possibility does remain that everything in The Law of One material is a hoax. I do not believe it to be in my heart of hearts, but I accept the possibility as such... therefore I am covering all the bases so-to-speak.... it it both true & untrue at the same time.... the so-called truth is that both are correct... as paradoxical as it may sound.

As for Taras Bulba being real.... well..... was he, or wasn't he? Was he a thought form like Santa Claus or The Men In Black or one of the three (???) kinds of Bigfoot?

I mean, seriously...... what is the standard of proof for the existence of any historical figure? How far back in history do you go before you say that this figure or that person didn't exist because there is no proof of them..... do you need skeletal remains? Do you have to have 3 independent written accounts describing them? What makes someone or something "real?"

I am 43 years young in this life, & the house I grew up in is no longer standing, two of the four schools I attended are no longer standing, some of my closest friends whilst growing up are deceased or are completely unaccounted for, two of the three restaurants I worked for for a total of 8 years are defunct & no longer in existence, the buildings demolished & replaced with something else entirely. I have none of the toys, games, or clothes I had whilst growing up, I've gone through several cars, motorcycles & various vehicles in my life, most of which I have no photographs or written records of.... & if I really, really buckled down & dug as deeply as I could, I could not prove that 3/4 of the stuff that I have owned, people I worked with, dated, school-mates, or whomever I can think of ever actually existed at all... I just can't. All you are ultimately left with are the experiences of it all.... & I guess that's the most important thing to recognize in all of this.

What is reality? Only you can define it.

Was Taras Bulba real? People in Eastern Europe still ask that question. We are..... so, it's a mystery then isn't it? You & I came into contact because of this mysterious figure, so it exists as a catalyst for inquiry, if for nothing else. Have you read the book? Have you seen either of the films? He could be anyone, really. The fact that he was named in a Q & A session with an extra-terrestrial entity who names lots of historical figures known to us & explains incredibly deep esoteric material with the precision of a surgical instrument leads me to believe that he was as real as anyone or anything in The Law of One (or history in general).... but again, I accept the possibility that he, & the material in general, is a work of fiction.....

Yet again, I would ask, what is real to you & for you? What exactly is r-e-a-l--i-t-y? What makes reality r-e-a-l? What is it made of? Can you eat it? Can you set it on fire? I mean.... do you see why mysteries are so grand? They open so many doors, it's not even funny.... & this is what The Law of One presents to everyone it comes into contact with... these answers to a series of questions that inevitably lead to more questions, over & over again..... sometimes you just have to walk away because its just so intense... but you always come back..... there's nothing else like it..... it's truly a fascinating body of work.

As always,

Peace be with you.

[Mat]

Hey eccentric1.

Thank's for your thoughts.

I guess for me the currently looming prospect is that the changelings are a delusion or a hoax. I don't believe that currently but still, rationally, I am engaged in this sceptical process and so far the only thing that might be confirmation of that is this Taras Bulba aspect.

There might be more as I read the other books... even so, these potential errors, as said, might be there for reasons of free will and all that.

Onwards we seek

Namaste,

Mat

Changelings? Please define and/or restate.

Delusion? Hoax? Please define. What is your definition of reality? Which reality are you referring to? I can completely unravel everything you say because we are talking about an esoteric topic at it's most extreme level.

The Law of One explores what we know/think we know (about everything) but places that knowledge/information/awareness into what I like to call "an infinite twist" on everything. Have you ever tried to wrap your head around infinity? I mean seriously! We are so conditioned to walk around looking at our toes, working & living in cubicles, doing one thing or another day in & day out, never connecting anything or anyone to one another. Here you are presented with this gi-normous body of Q&A that attempts to include everything in its responses.... that's a tall order, don't you think? The universe is not about salt or pepper, it's about salt and pepper! The entire conversation is about transcending duality..... keep that in mind at all times.

I would recommend reviewing the "Cosmology" section of TLoO...... it always helps to put things into perspective.

I recommend remaining skeptical, its a healthy attitude to have, just don't let it turn into being cynical.... that's where all the distortions come in to play & really muck things up! But, as always, it's your choice to do so (or not!).....

As far as so-called "errors" go.... I throw it all up to distortion.... The Ra contact went to absurd lengths to be as precise as possible given the circumstances (& so did L/L) & the results show when you stand it up to other channelled material. I may sound somewhat elitist in that remark, but honestly, the material has far more a ring of truth to it (for me at least), than most else of what is out there.

If you ever have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Send me a PM for some additional links to reading material, as well as video, that I think will assist you in your ongoing search for the truth....

Peace, Love, & Happiness stuff,

~ Thomas

P.S. - This is not from TLoO, but from Q'uo - & I recommend anyone reading this post to review it: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0514.aspx

Hi Thomas,

What is real?

I think for things like clouds, colours and numbers there is no meaningful sense I can give to that. But to talk about a person being real or not real is not quite the same, there is ground we can cover.


I think you Thomas are real. You might, not be, of course. You might be a computer program. But assuming that you are not, what it means is that you are part of a nexus of causes and effects that converge on you. This come from your ancestry and your relationships. You occupy a place in the world that if you suddenly were plucked from history by god then there would be contradictions and inconsistencies.

If Taras Bulba was real the same is true of him. He would fit into this causal network and if he was plucked from history there would be inconsistencies.

I think that is something like an answer

Namaste,

Mat

[Betsy]

I just finished reading the first book and looked for some discussion on Taras Bulba because I was concerned by this discrepancy like Mat was.

After reading the discussion I spent some time pondering the issue and I agree that there is no way to be 100% sure that a Taras Bulba figure didn't ever exist, but one would think Ra would know the entities actual name. I contemplated the possibility that maybe the name was used for the way of confusion or the way of faith. Then the thought popped into my head that maybe the name was utilized as a failsafe.

It is my understanding that if an entity is at their core aligned in the service to others, but is somehow influenced to act in a service to self manner then the worst thing that can happen to them is they be discredited. Could it be placed there in the event that the book must be discredited at some point in the future??

Whatever the reason, I personally feel that the lessons I have taken from the book feel correct down deep in my soul and that it does not matter to me. I am choosing to have faith in my faith in the core message.

Betsy

[Jade]

Welcome, Betsy.

I too find the Taras Bulba dilemma interesting. It's intriguing that when questioned about commonly known figures like Moses and Jesus, he uses a different name for each of them, (Moishe and Jehoshua) but throws out Taras Bulba like nothing. I think Ra purposefully gave an example that was more of a parable and a legacy - it's obvious that when he's talking about Jehoshua and Moishe that he's treading a thin line between what mythos the Christian society believes about their holy characters and their real stories. So I believe Ra was using Taras Bulba the same way Ra felt they were using Jehoshua and Moishe - using the traits and history that the mass consciousness has created for this character.

[LukeM7]

I found out there was a person known as Taras Bulba-Borovets who was here on Earth from 1908 to 1981 (he died a few months after the Ra session 11) and he was known as a Ukrainian resistance leader and holocaust perpetrator -- any relation to this?

[Kadoki]

It has to do with old pharaoh names.

They believed that when they achieved a certain level of conscientiousness that they were living examples of old gods.
Ra does not identify you by your names but rather your virtue.
Everybody in the Bible did things out of fear or for personal gain.
Most of these people shouldn't be looked up to nowadays.
King Tut declared himself a living god so the people could create new Gods.
Ideally we shouldn't be worshiping anyone but rather just try to be our best selves.

[Nau7ik]

He is a fictional character. I have no desire to read the book, so I can’t say what it means. We’ve had this discussion many times on the forum and have never came to anything conclusive. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)

Ghenghis Khan and Rasputin are great example, however. They represent two different types of service-to-self individuals. Khan wielded military might, controlled his people, and put himself under exceptional discipline to refine his polarity.

Rasputin, on the other hand, was a black adept and welded magical power to control those around him. There many “legends” of Rasputin. These are legends because most people do not understand magical power and therefore think it’s fancy.

The world today is filled with polarizing STS individuals and organizations. In fact, the negative polarity has almost exclusive control over all human institutions. I’m not going to get into it, but it’s a good exercise of discernment to try and figure out who is acting according to the principles of the Left-hand path.

Remember that oratory skills are a means to get people to listen and obey you.

A principle which is often forgotten is, “By their actions shall ye know them.”
It does not matter what they say. Do their actions follow their words? Really look at that. We don’t need to lie to ourselves. Frankly there are a lot of political figures people slavishly follow and support because the politician says everything that person wants to hear. (they know what they’re doing.)

I don’t know know what else to say. We truly have a “paucity of honesty” in this world and discernment is more important than ever before because of the mass amount of information we are exposed to at all times.

I’m not telling anyone what to believe or how to think. I’m only suggesting that we all take special care to invoke discernment.
Things are not as they appear to be.

[flofrog]

Excellent, Nau....

[BrotherInWaiting]

5 years late to the topic at hand, thank you for reviving it to the recent posters. Many of us would have read about Taras Bulba upon encountering that unknown name in the readings. The suite of reactions is already outlined above.

My only addition now is: hundreds of pages of readings that resonate, that make me feel enlightened, and I still go bananas over the small stuff that raises questions about the clarity of the channellings. I have come to see my own scepticism and that of others as a necessary tool -- to arrive where I/we have, outside of both mainstream religious thought and mainstream atheism/agnosticism, required a questioning attitude all along. However, it is sad that I have to carry this tool with me each and every day. Perhaps it is time to take a leap of faith. I've used the tool, time to put it down more now.

[Ralib1]

So I did some research and there apparently was someone named Taras Bulba in history. His name was Taras Bulba Borovetz and he was a Ukrainian resistance leader during world war 2. Also, even if he didn’t have a wikipedia page. RA could have mentioned someone who wasn’t well known of notoriety.