Service without request?

[unity100]

To radiate energy IS to radiate love.

All energy is love and all that is of this illusion and all densities is the expression of love which is light.

The Infinite One/Infinity IS love.

Love learning and experiencing love.

if, you are talking about the green ray energy, the 4th density of this particular octave, this is erroneous.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=27&ss=1#12

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

there are 7 other rays/energies that exist and manifest in this existence. they cannot be ignored to the benefit of the other.

but what is more important, there is a distinction in between the 4d green ray, the 4th density, the activity of 'loving' that is done in 4d, and the second distortion :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=27&ss=1#13

27.13 Questioner: Is there a manifestation of love that we could call vibration?

Ra: I am Ra. Again we reach semantic difficulties. The vibration or density of love or understanding is not a term used in the same sense as the second distortion, Love; the distortion Love being the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity; the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom. Thus in vibratory sense love comes into light in the sense of the activity of unity in its free will. Love uses light and has the power to direct light in its distortions. Thus vibratory complexes recapitulate in reverse the creation in its unity, thus showing the rhythm or flow of the great heartbeat, if you will use this analogy.

the two terms are not interchangeable.

To serve others is to give your love onto them and due to you giving love to yourself so you shall receive love from yourself. This is how karma works. It's as simple as that - more technicality is just furthering the simple statement into conglomerated distortions

serving others is radiating whatever energy is available to one to outside.

an entity may be 50% positively polarized, ie, red, orange, yellow energy centers open. it may not have any vibration of love, the vibration of 4d green ray. yet, the energy is still 50% radiating its light/energy. that doesnt make him not service to others (s/he actually is), or negative, or self centered, or anything else.

that only makes him not harvestable to 4d positive. he needs 1% more.

that understanding is not a technicality, or conglomerated distortion. it is as simple as existing. you radiate outward whatever that is there, or you hold it, and draw inwards. it is as simple as that.

This is how I awakened to realizing that the reason why all is one is because there is no other essence besides love.

at this point i would bid you to refer to the initial q/a that talks about mistakenly worshipping even the second distortion, leave aside 4d activity/energy/understanding of love, as the creator.

Of course these words should not be taking as etched in stone, but they resonate so strongly with me I cannot turn away from such powerful words by those of Q'uo.

again,

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

---

But you do agree that even with all we know, we still don't know him completely don't you?

yes, we cant know him completely. especially, his unmanifested qualities and nature. however, my point is that, had he been an entity manifesting a love in the kind we are talking in today's new age literature, it would be impossible for anyone in his time not to notice and make an account of it.

[Namaste]

Thanks for the quotes, unity. I will re-quote to make this post easier to read:

The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter, preferring the darkness.

Rs is talking in metaphors, and does not consistently define STS using words such as "darkness" and "grim laughter". An isolated statement used out of context.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives otherselves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

This is describing the personal perpective/experience (or trappings) of how one chooses STS, and not defining STS itself.

The negatively oriented being will be one who feels that it has found power that gives meaning to its existence precisely as the positive polarization does feel.

Again, this is a description of the personal perpective/experience.

It is aware of the full array of possible methods of viewing the universe of the One Creator and it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density.

None of the above quotes specifically define the choice of STS or STO. In the context of our conversation, they have been used to support your understanding that choices do not stem from love or fear. I could equally use these quotes to support my understanding that all choices do stem from fear or love. They are open to interpretation.

The quotes in my previous post on the other hand, are in context of describing STS and STO choices, and are both clear and specific. Let's have another look (this time will full excerpts)...

I spoke last night of intention, of moving away from the limiting concept of service to self and service to others—which is quite disorienting because service to others is service to self and vice versa—and to begin to see with clarity the ways that service to others springs from a ground of love and service to self springs from a ground of fear.[1]

When you begin to see the intention to offer love or to react to fear, to allow fear to direct your choices, then you can move away from the concept of service to self or other-self and towards the pure experience of “being service” or the pure experience of reactivity to fear.

The most important point to remember here is that expressing service through being service in love is natural to you. And when you do that, you are not doing anything; you are not creating anything. You are simply expressing your own true nature. When that nature is in full harmony with the external positive energy which may move through you, your energy to serve is magnified. At that point, you do not need to ask, “How can I best serve?” You simply choose the paths that lie right at your feet, whatever they are.

A clear definition of how all choices are based upon love or fear.

This is the crux of it: choice, responsibility. The being who acts in reactivity to fear, and thus acts in what we have called service to self and with the intention of harm of others, has either denied his responsibility and his ability to make a choice or is frightened of that responsibility and choice.

Again, a clear definition.

springing from something does not make the result what it has sprung from. 4th ray springs from 3rd, yet this doesnt make green yellow.

Comparing the rays as an entirely different concept. The core element to understand is that we can choose how the energy flows (or not) concurrently through each ray, negative or positive - fear or love.

Choices made from a point of love will indeed effect the result, as will choices made from fear.

A negative judgment is based upon fear
Being selfish is based upon fear
Being impatient is based upon fear
Being agressive is based upon fear
Being cowardly is based upon fear
Controlling another is based upon fear

Appreciating another's traits is based upon love
Being generous is based upon love
Being patient is based upon love
Being peaceful is based upon love
Being courageous is based upon love
Empowering others is based upon love

Regardless of the associated ray of consciousness (albeit survival, the self, other selves, groups, expression, creativity etc.), these are all valid choices.

Notice how each example above is an exact mirror of the other; fear or love - STS or STO. The result is defined by the essence of the choice, regardless of which ray the thought is predominantly based. Hence, the root of the choice will effect the outcome.

It's quite simple.

That is the choice we make, day by day, minute by minute, thought by thought. Fear or love, the choice of this density.

L&L

[unity100]

Thanks for the quotes, unity. I will re-quote to make this post easier to read:

The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter, preferring the darkness.

Rs is talking in metaphors, and does not consistently define STS using words such as "darkness" and "grim laughter". An isolated statement used out of context.

notice that not even the metaphors involve fear.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives otherselves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

This is describing the personal perpective/experience (or trappings) of how one chooses STS, and not defining STS itself.

it actually does -> you have said that fear underlies service to self. had fear been the cause of service to self activity, or service to self, the choosing mechanism would also involve fear.

The negatively oriented being will be one who feels that it has found power that gives meaning to its existence precisely as the positive polarization does feel.

Again, this is a description of the personal perpective/experience.

still same, if fear had been underlying basis of negative polarity, the personal experience of any given entity would also have to be based on fear and its peripherals.

It is aware of the full array of possible methods of viewing the universe of the One Creator and it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density.

None of the above quotes specifically define the choice of STS or STO. In the context of our conversation, they have been used to support your understanding that choices do not stem from love or fear. I could equally use these quotes to support my understanding that all choices do stem from fear or love. They are open to interpretation.

firstly, opposite of love (as in 4d love) is not fear. it is love of self. love of self and love of others, or at least this is what we understand from what Ra describes.

secondly, again, something stems from something cannot be devoid of properties qualities or mechanics of its cause. and, while describing the choice for service self being made, ra couldnt have skipped the core reason, (if it was fear) and just jump to 'personal experience'. it is not the personal experience of any entity by the way. it is what happens to a negatively polarizing entity.

The quotes in my previous post on the other hand, are in context of describing STS and STO choices, and are both clear and specific. Let's have another look (this time will full excerpts)...

I spoke last night of intention, of moving away from the limiting concept of service to self and service to others—which is quite disorienting because service to others is service to self and vice versa—and to begin to see with clarity the ways that service to others springs from a ground of love and service to self springs from a ground of fear.[1]

When you begin to see the intention to offer love or to react to fear, to allow fear to direct your choices, then you can move away from the concept of service to self or other-self and towards the pure experience of “being service” or the pure experience of reactivity to fear.

The most important point to remember here is that expressing service through being service in love is natural to you. And when you do that, you are not doing anything; you are not creating anything. You are simply expressing your own true nature. When that nature is in full harmony with the external positive energy which may move through you, your energy to serve is magnified. At that point, you do not need to ask, “How can I best serve?” You simply choose the paths that lie right at your feet, whatever they are.

A clear definition of how all choices are based upon love or fear.

This is the crux of it: choice, responsibility. The being who acts in reactivity to fear, and thus acts in what we have called service to self and with the intention of harm of others, has either denied his responsibility and his ability to make a choice or is frightened of that responsibility and choice.

Again, a clear definition.

again, these are quo quotes and conclusions from quo. i would like to remind you here at this point that quo contact is not direct Ra contact, the speakers are predominantly latwii, and occasionally hatonn, 5d and 4d entities respectively (as far as i know), and Ra doesnt dictate their messages.

as i have mentioned before, i take Ra material over anything that comes from quo contact, if the question is based in fundamental principles.

Comparing the rays as an entirely different concept. The core element to understand is that we can choose how the energy flows (or not) concurrently through each ray, negative or positive - fear or love.

no its not an entirely different concept.

negative polarity is ignoring 4th ray, and using red, orange and yellow to contact infinite intelligence, then going to work on love of self, not fear of self or fear of others, in order to get to 5d wisdom, and again work in the same direction.

there is nothing related to fear or mentioned related to fear in these subjects in any part in Ra material. had there been any such predominance of fear as the reason for polarity, it would have been mentioned, at least once.

Being selfish is based upon fear
Controlling another is based upon fear

the above, which are traits of negative characteristic, are based on love of self. clogging of the 4th ray. they have no relevance to fear.

Appreciating another's traits is based upon love
Being generous is based upon love

irrelevant to subject at hand but i will refer you to the relevant Ra quotes on tying entire creation, existence, and creator to love wrongfully.

Notice how each example above is an exact mirror of the other; fear or love - STS or STO. The result is defined by the essence of the choice, regardless of which ray the thought is predominantly based. Hence, the root of the choice will effect the outcome.

i snipped various parts there, for they have no relevance to any kind of polarization, service to self, or service to others. being cowardly is not related to anything polarity. or, being aggressive. or, being courageous. there are aggressive negatively polarizing entities, as well as cowardly. there are courageous positive entities, as well as passive.

[Namaste]

notice that not even the metaphors involve fear.

That's the point of a metaphor brother, perhaps these definitions will help.

A metaphor is an analogy between two objects or ideas; the analogy is conveyed by the use of a metaphorical word in place of some other word.

A figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance

firstly, opposite of love (as in 4d love) is not fear. it is love of self. love of self and love of others, or at least this is what we understand from what Ra describes.

Agreed, one can love the self or other self, and is equal.

Let me share my humble opinion. If one loves the self at the expense of another, this is still service to self, and based upon fear. One would not choose for themselves over another if STO orientated. Loving the self (for example accepting the self, having patience for the self and being grateful for this experience), should not be confused with thoughts directed at the benefit of the self (fear based usually due to fears of lack). I repeat, this is my own humble opinion.

A relevant Ra quote, linking fear with love...

However, the instrument has become more mentally and spiritually able to greet this entity with love thereby reducing the element of fear which is an element the entity counts as a great weapon in the attempt to cause cessation, in any degree, of the Ra contact.

The reason I have focused upon "thereby" is that Ra is very (very) particular with regard to use of English, and does not use slang. Hence it holds much implication. The definition of thereby...

1. by that; by means of that.
2. in that connection or relation

Therefore love exists in the absence, or lack of, fear. An opposite. A polarity. Light and dark. Yin and yang. STO and STS.

as i have mentioned before, i take Ra material over anything that comes from quo contact, if the question is based in fundamental principles

I support the Ra Material with other sources I trust, including my own discoveries of truth (from meditation and contemplation - this is my most trusted), Q'uo (Ra, Latwii, Hatonn), Abraham and Bashar. Bashar especially (moving from 4D to 5D as we move from 3D to 4D) as the channeling is unconscious as per Carla and Ra. These all promote the Law of One and there are consistent parallels between messages.

From this, I have my own understanding - truths - which I am putting forward here. The broader range of sources is most likely what causes our differences in our own personal truths.

[unity100]

However, the instrument has become more mentally and spiritually able to greet this entity with love thereby reducing the element of fear which is an element the entity counts as a great weapon in the attempt to cause cessation, in any degree, of the Ra contact.

notice, the fear that is being spoken here is not fear of that negative entity that is attacking. the entity expects to use fear, as a distortion to manipulate the entity doing the channeling to stop the activity. it doesnt attempt to convert the entity to negative path.

something reducing the effect of something else does not create any kind of causation linkage, or opposite polarity in between those two concepts. there are numerous negative (in earthly psychological sense) thought/emotion patterns that love (as in 4d green ray vibration) does reduce the effects of. that doesnt make love polar opposite of any of these.

................

apart from that, our vantage points are quite different. for any fundamental concept and principle, i take Ra over any channeling that is in spiritual literature. for changing concepts, like the timeline changes that occurred since then, or similar stuff which can change, i may take quo's messages, if these do not fundamentally conflict with Ra material.

we dont have any option here but agree to disagree.

[Namaste]

we dont have any option here but agree to disagree.

Indeed, both of our truths have been given for others to contemplate.

I do not however, disagree with you, your opinion is valid, as is mine.

[LsavedSmeD]

LsavedSmeD Wrote:
To radiate energy IS to radiate love.

All energy is love and all that is of this illusion and all densities is the expression of love which is light.


The Infinite One/Infinity IS love.

Love learning and experiencing love.

unity100 Wrote:

if, you are talking about the green ray energy, the 4th density of this particular octave, this is erroneous.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=27&ss=1#12

I guess you did not read my post thoroughly.

No matter which density/octave that you reside or vibrate all that is in existence springs entirely from love. All illusion/densities are created of light and light is the expression of love. Why you must be so technical about such a simple reasoning is confusing to me, distorting even more the essence of all that is.

[unity100]

I guess you did not read my post thoroughly.

No matter which density/octave that you reside or vibrate all that is in existence springs entirely from love. All illusion/densities are created of light and light is the expression of love. Why you must be so technical about such a simple reasoning is confusing to me, distorting even more the essence of all that is.

refer to my 1 or 2 earlier post in regard to this, that i have replied to namaste.

second distortion 'love' is not 4d, green ray love.

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

27.13 Questioner: Is there a manifestation of love that we could call vibration?

Ra: I am Ra. Again we reach semantic difficulties.The vibration or density of love or understanding is not a term used in the same sense as the second distortion, Love; the distortion Love being the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity; the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom. Thus in vibratory sense love comes into light in the sense of the activity of unity in its free will. Love uses light and has the power to direct light in its distortions. Thus vibratory complexes recapitulate in reverse the creation in its unity, thus showing the rhythm or flow of the great heartbeat, if you will use this analogy.

this is a technical matter. it is very technical and also important - confusing the second distortion 'love' with the activity of 'loving' in 4d (in Ra's words), and the understanding and density of 'love' of 4d, is, wrong. both are named as love, because in english language a proper term for differentiating those two does not exist. in various other languages and cultures, it does. however, its not easy to translate these words into english.

[Poffo]

Hey everyone. I'm a long time reader, first time poster. Just thought I'd put my 2 cents into the mix to hopefully bring 4th some clarity.

Though this is getting slightly off topic, wouldn't it be reasonable to define STS and STO in the context of control vs. acceptance, as has been done before by Ra?

In this sense, STS is bent on control because it fears the acceptance of the real unity possible in the STO path, whereas STO strives to accept all (including all forms of products of fear) and does so based on it's love for all creation.

Indeed, there is a difference between the Logos as Love (2nd distortion of II) and the vibration of love (4th density/chakra). The former is the Creative Principle stemming from the 1st distortion (manifested by Light aka 3rd distortion) and the latter is a reflection of an act or way of being which we call love. So, both STS and STO beings actively love, even if that love is polarized predominantly towards self or other-self. As well, each entity regardless of polarity IS Love as a sub-Logos, not to mention the fact that all of Creation is Love.

I think much confusion has been caused over the difference between the specific use of the term "love". As is usually the case when I mediate in "real-life" discussions/arguments between others, both are right AND wrong and this is usually because each side is working from different understandings, and we all know that this is not the density of understanding

We now return to the regularly scheduled topic...

BTW, solitary, thanks for making my day with this:

The badinage has been fun, if orotund at times, gotta go.

[LsavedSmeD]

Hey everyone. I'm a long time reader, first time poster. Just thought I'd put my 2 cents into the mix to hopefully bring 4th some clarity.

Though this is getting slightly off topic, wouldn't it be reasonable to define STS and STO in the context of control vs. acceptance, as has been done before by Ra?

In this sense, STS is bent on control because it fears the acceptance of the real unity possible in the STO path, whereas STO strives to accept all (including all forms of products of fear) and does so based on it's love for all creation.

Indeed, there is a difference between the Logos as Love (2nd distortion of II) and the vibration of love (4th density/chakra). The former is the Creative Principle stemming from the 1st distortion (manifested by Light aka 3rd distortion) and the latter is a reflection of an act or way of being which we call love. So, both STS and STO beings actively love, even if that love is polarized predominantly towards self or other-self. As well, each entity regardless of polarity IS Love as a sub-Logos, not to mention the fact that all of Creation is Love.

I think much confusion has been caused over the difference between the specific use of the term "love". As is usually the case when I mediate in "real-life" discussions/arguments between others, both are right AND wrong and this is usually because each side is working from different understandings, and we all know that this is not the density of understanding

We now return to the regularly scheduled topic...

By the way, solitary, thanks for making my day with this:

The badinage has been fun, if orotund at times, gotta go.

Thank you for bringing clarity into the debate.

I was trying to convey that the creation is love, that was all. Love learning about love.


Namaste to you. Peace and love.

[solitary]

Though this is getting slightly off topic, wouldn't it be reasonable to define STS and STO in the context of control vs. acceptance, as has been done before by Ra?

In this sense, STS is bent on control because it fears the acceptance of the real unity possible in the STO path, whereas STO strives to accept all (including all forms of products of fear) and does so based on it's love for all creation.



By the way, solitary, thanks for making my day with this:

The badinage has been fun, if orotund at times, gotta go.

Post some more, Poffo. That was great.

STS is a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Long slog back to STO, though. Makes me think of Gandalf and Saruman, and how, both being adepts, they chose their paths.

Glad you enjoyed my verbiage, and happy to be of service.

[unity100]

Understanding of what creation is is an important and delicate matter.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=34&ss=1#3

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

the creator, is not love. its itself, the creator, infinite intelligence.

................

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=13&ss=1#5

13.5 Questioner: Thank you. Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?

Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.

so, first thing there is, is infinity. infinity is creation. not love.

13.6 Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?

Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.

13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

infinity becomes aware. then, this awareness leads to focus of infinity to infinite energy. this, is termed as logos (source) or love. love, here not to be mistaken with 4th density green ray vibration, or the associated activity of 'loving', as a previous Ra quote i have repeatedly posted tells us. it is a different thing, for which there is no precise term in english language.

what is happening here is, creator knowing itself, ie, infinite intelligence knowing itself through free will, which is a distortion after the 'love' that comes after the infinity gaining awareness. again, this love here is not to be confused or identical with 4d love or activity of loving related to that density.

...........

the creator that is spoken about in many discussions, and in the Ra material, is infinite intelligence, ie, intelligent infinity, according to Ra. intelligent infinity, ie, infinity that became aware of itself and potentiated, is different from infinity. so, in this situation there is a higher step of existence above god, aka creator, aka intelligent infinity. and it is infinity.

ra says that this infinity is creation. existence. this creation shouldnt be mistaken with this universe, or universes pertaining to this octave either :

13.8 Questioner: Can you state the next step?

Ra: I am Ra. The next step is still at this space/time nexus in your illusion achieving its progression as you may see it in your illusion. The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible. The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomized creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularize their own local, shall we say, rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes.

creation encompasses all existence. that existence is infinity. all are encompassed by it.

by the way, this also includes the previous octave, next octave, all octaves lining up towards infinity, from infinite octaves past.

it would be good to remember at this point that, the 4d vibration, green ray love that we speak of and many so mistakenly put in place of the creator, aka infinite intelligence, is a vibrational density and understanding and activity pertaining to the 4th density of this particular octave. it may or may not have been there in the last octave before this one, it may or may not be in the next octave after this one. or, it may have been surpassed by even further understandings and vibrations in the next octave. or, it may have become a building block of the much larger understandings and vibrations of the next octave, just the vibrations and understandings of last octave has been for this octave. it is very easy to reflect on this when one thinks that the red ray, which is accepted to be constant in this octave, was the 8th density, vibration, understanding of the last octave.

[LsavedSmeD]

Understanding of what creation is is an important and delicate matter.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=34&ss=1#3

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

the creator, is not love. its itself, the creator, infinite intelligence.

................

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=13&ss=1#5

13.5 Questioner: Thank you. Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?

Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.

so, first thing there is, is infinity. infinity is creation. not love.

13.6 Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?

Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.

13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

infinity becomes aware. then, this awareness leads to focus of infinity to infinite energy. this, is termed as logos (source) or love. love, here not to be mistaken with 4th density green ray vibration, or the associated activity of 'loving', as a previous Ra quote i have repeatedly posted tells us. it is a different thing, for which there is no precise term in english language.

what is happening here is, creator knowing itself, ie, infinite intelligence knowing itself through free will, which is a distortion after the 'love' that comes after the infinity gaining awareness. again, this love here is not to be confused or identical with 4d love or activity of loving related to that density.

...........

the creator that is spoken about in many discussions, and in the Ra material, is infinite intelligence, ie, intelligent infinity, according to Ra. intelligent infinity, ie, infinity that became aware of itself and potentiated, is different from infinity. so, in this situation there is a higher step of existence above god, aka creator, aka intelligent infinity. and it is infinity.

ra says that this infinity is creation. existence. this creation shouldnt be mistaken with this universe, or universes pertaining to this octave either :

13.8 Questioner: Can you state the next step?

Ra: I am Ra. The next step is still at this space/time nexus in your illusion achieving its progression as you may see it in your illusion. The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible. The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomized creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularize their own local, shall we say, rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes.

creation encompasses all existence. that existence is infinity. all are encompassed by it.

by the way, this also includes the previous octave, next octave, all octaves lining up towards infinity, from infinite octaves past.

it would be good to remember at this point that, the 4d vibration, green ray love that we speak of and many so mistakenly put in place of the creator, aka infinite intelligence, is a vibrational density and understanding and activity pertaining to the 4th density of this particular octave. it may or may not have been there in the last octave before this one, it may or may not be in the next octave after this one. or, it may have been surpassed by even further understandings and vibrations in the next octave. or, it may have become a building block of the much larger understandings and vibrations of the next octave, just the vibrations and understandings of last octave has been for this octave. it is very easy to reflect on this when one thinks that the red ray, which is accepted to be constant in this octave, was the 8th density, vibration, understanding of the last octave.

Q'uo - This brings us to the meat of this question, which is, “Is there a ground of being which does not change although things on the surface may change from moment to moment, day to day and year to year?” Yes, my friends, there is indeed a ground of being. For each of you and for all of you it is the same. The ground of being is that one great original Thought, the Logos, which has created all that there is in the seen worlds and in the unseen worlds as well. Another word for that Logos is love. The Creator is love. It is out of that love that all that there is springs. You cannot be other than love. There is no other essence within the creation. When at last you come to the essence of yourself and feel the heart of you, it is a heart full of love. We always greet you in love and in light. When the Creator wished to know Itself, It formed a Logos of Its own essence. That essence is love. In order to manifest that essence It used light, so all that there is is love and light.

From the Infinite one desiring to experience itself arises the Creator.

A focus point, this focus point being love.

[unity100]

From the Infinite one desiring to experience itself arises the Creator.

A focus point, this focus point being love.

which, is not to be confused with 4d love, act of 'loving' in 4d. moreover, before focused potentiated intelligent infinity, there is intelligent infinity, and even before that, infinity. which, is creation itself, according to what Ra says.

---

excuse me, a correction here :

27.12 Questioner: I would like for you to define love in its sense as the second distortion.

Ra: I am Ra. This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshipped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

therefore creator is not love. it is infinity potentiated by awareness. infinite intelligence. this infinite intelligence then focuses this awareness with the 'love' of that level, ie second distortion, creating infinite energy focuses, ie logos, logoi, creative nodes. one of which is our sun, and all the stars in this universe. or, any similar creative node, the collection of all nodes that manifest the creating activity.

a strong energy focus, is not the focuser itself.

[LsavedSmeD]

From the Infinite one desiring to experience itself arises the Creator.

A focus point, this focus point being love.

which, is not to be confused with 4d love, act of 'loving' in 4d. moreover, before focused potentiated intelligent infinity, there is intelligent infinity, and even before that, infinity. which, is creation itself, according to what Ra says.

THE 1ST DISTORTION = FREE WILL

QUESTION: The 1st distortion of intelligent infinity is free will. Can you give a definition of this distortion?

RA: In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself (or experience Itself). The primal distortion is free will.
QUESTION: The Creator then grants total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing. Is this correct?

RA: This is quite correct.
QUESTION: Then all other distortions spring from this first distortion, is this correct?
RA: It is both correct and incorrect.
In your illusion of physical existence all experience springs from the Law of Free will or the Way of Confusion.


In another sense, which we are learning, the experiences are this distortion.


II. THE 2ND DISTORTION = LOVE
A. THE FOCUSING OF FREE WILL YIELDS LOVE
RA: The 1st distortion, free will, finds a focus which is known to you as logos, the Creative Principle or love. This focus may be called the 2nd distortion.
RA: The second distortion is the distortion of love.
B. LOVE SEEKS TO KNOW ITSELF

RA: The distortion love is the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity. ... Love uses Its intelligent energy to create a certain pattern of illusions or densities in order to satisfy Its own intelligent estimate of a method of knowing itself.


III. THE 3RD DISTORTION = LIGHT
(NOTE: Light, or light energy, is transformative: it may, or may not, be connected to love)
RA: This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these 3 distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being any more important than another.

This means the Infinite One in giving itself free will can not express it's free will without yielding love, therefor all of the creation/creator in using it's free will is love.

RA: The origin of all energy is the action of free will upon love. The nature of all energy is light, including the inner light which is the guiding star of the self. This is the true nature of all entities.

And... again the Q'uo quote:

Q'uo - This brings us to the meat of this question, which is, “Is there a ground of being which does not change although things on the surface may change from moment to moment, day to day and year to year?” Yes, my friends, there is indeed a ground of being. For each of you and for all of you it is the same. The ground of being is that one great original Thought, the Logos, which has created all that there is in the seen worlds and in the unseen worlds as well. Another word for that Logos is love. The Creator is love. It is out of that love that all that there is springs. You cannot be other than love. There is no other essence within the creation. When at last you come to the essence of yourself and feel the heart of you, it is a heart full of love. We always greet you in love and in light. When the Creator wished to know Itself, It formed a Logos of Its own essence. That essence is love. In order to manifest that essence It used light, so all that there is is love and light.

This means that the complete nature of the Creator and that which the Creator arises from is love, there is not another essence.

Infinity is only just that Infinity, the potential to become anything and everything, but by choosing to become is a choice yielding love. Therefor all that is created of the Infinity (not by it) is love.

The fourth density lesson of Love is still an understanding of those connection between sub-sub-sub (and so on) logos with each other, who co-create betwixt each other; therefor the lesson of love may be different but still a microcosmic expression of the macro cosmic expression of the One Infinite Creator.

[unity100]

first, refer to the post above.

From the Infinite one desiring to experience itself arises the Creator.

A focus point, this focus point being love.

which, is not to be confused with 4d love, act of 'loving' in 4d. moreover, before focused potentiated intelligent infinity, there is intelligent infinity, and even before that, infinity. which, is creation itself, according to what Ra says.

THE 1ST DISTORTION = FREE WILL

QUESTION: The 1st distortion of intelligent infinity is free will. Can you give a definition of this distortion?

RA: In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself (or experience Itself). The primal distortion is free will.
QUESTION: The Creator then grants total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing. Is this correct?

RA: This is quite correct.

are you aware that at this point there is creator, there is Law of One, there is free will ?

this is BEFORE second distortion, which is to come soon after, in case you aware of it.

the creator ALREADY exists at this point. the second distortion, love, as in the sense of second distortion, NOT the love we know of in 4d or the act of loving that is associated with it, do not exist.

II. THE 2ND DISTORTION = LOVE
A. THE FOCUSING OF FREE WILL YIELDS LOVE
RA: The 1st distortion, free will, finds a focus which is known to you as logos, the Creative Principle or love. This focus may be called the 2nd distortion.
RA: The second distortion is the distortion of love.
B. LOVE SEEKS TO KNOW ITSELF

RA: The distortion love is the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity. ... Love uses Its intelligent energy to create a certain pattern of illusions or densities in order to satisfy Its own intelligent estimate of a method of knowing itself.

and again, not to confuse, creator, already existed BEFORE this point, before love exists, (love of second distortion). in the block that was quoted before.

i want to reiterate :

the creator exists at the point BEFORE second distortion. this is what you have quoted above. you and the q/a you have quoted precisely said :

THE 1ST DISTORTION = FREE WILL

QUESTION: The 1st distortion of intelligent infinity is free will. Can you give a definition of this distortion?

RA: In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself (or experience Itself). The primal distortion is free will.

QUESTION: The Creator then grants total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing. Is this correct?

RA: This is quite correct.

that means, creator exists BEFORE second distortion. also, free will exists before second distortion, which is love, as in the sense of second distortion.

this is what you have quoted :

III. THE 3RD DISTORTION = LIGHT
(NOTE: Light, or light energy, is transformative: it may, or may not, be connected to love)

RA: This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these 3 distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being any more important than another.

RA: The origin of all energy is the action of free will upon love. The nature of all energy is light, including the inner light which is the guiding star of the self. This is the true nature of all entities.

This means the Infinite One in giving itself free will can not express it's free will without yielding love, therefor all of the creation/creator in using it's free will is love.

first, as you can notice from the above, all the distortions, energies come AFTER the third distortion, light. which means that, any discrete increment of it, ie, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc vibrations of it, one of which being the 4d vibration, understanding of love and loving related to green ray, are its distortions, and come after it. it can NOT be transplanted for the love that is termed as the second distortion.

secondly, if we come to your conclusion, you seem to be concluding that because light cannot be created without there being the second distortion love, then it means that creator is also love.

that is erroneous. creator existed BEFORE second distortion. that existed before the third distortion, and that existed before all its consequences, one of which being the 4th density love, or activity of 'loving'.

And... again the Q'uo quote:


This means that the complete nature of the Creator and that which the Creator arises from is love, there is not another essence.

i have mentioned before that i take anything from Ra material before anything comes from quo. i wont comment on that.

Infinity is only just that Infinity, the potential to become anything and everything, but by choosing to become is a choice yielding love. Therefor all that is created of the Infinity (not by it) is love.

infinity is not 'only just that infinity'. infinity, is infinity, the thing which encompasses EVERYthing, that includes the infinite intelligence, its realization of free will, then its giving free will to itself and therefore manifesting the second distortion love, and then manifesting third distortion and therefore creating all the experiential existences we experience now, one of which being 4d love.

The fourth density lesson of Love is still an understanding of those connection between sub-sub-sub (and so on) logos with each other, who co-create betwixt each other; therefor the lesson of love may be different but still a microcosmic expression of the macro cosmic expression of the One Infinite Creator.

that is an overextended conclusion.

even if we take it in a grand shot, the closest thing to second distortion would be the white ray and its understanding, for this particular octave.

but then again, there has been the red ray understanding of previous octave. and there is the 8th ray of the next octave, in an infinite fashion.

green ray vibration, 4d, is just a single sub density in all of these densities.

a single ray cannot singlehandedly accentuate a distortion that precedes and encompasses ALL of these facets in any meaningful fashion. trying to establish a linkage in between that, and the second distortion, because there isnt any fitting term/word in english language to take place of love for defining that second distortion, is a loooong shot.

not to mention that the creator which was proposed to be even that love (with the correct term used), existed before that distortion, as per the sequence you quoted from Ra yourself.

[Monica]

are you aware that at this point there is creator, there is Law of One, there is free will ?

this is BEFORE second distortion, which is to come soon after, in case you aware of it.

the creator ALREADY exists at this point.

Are you ascribing a chronological value to the distortions?

Do we have reason to understand from the teachings that the distortions happened in linear time?

[unity100]

are you aware that at this point there is creator, there is Law of One, there is free will ?

this is BEFORE second distortion, which is to come soon after, in case you aware of it.

the creator ALREADY exists at this point.

Are you ascribing a chronological value to the distortions?

Do we have reason to understand from the teachings that the distortions happened in linear time?

it doesnt matter whether we take it chronologically, or in a priority manner or in a cause-effect manner ; since Ra describes it as first there existing infinity, and infinity being the first thing there is, and then putting each in a sequence, it means that there was either a 'chronological' sequence, or a priority sequence, or an importance sequence, or a cause-effect sequence, or a hierarchy.

the thing is, there was a sequence/order as Ra tells us, whatever that sequence/order is.

[Monica]

it doesnt matter whether we take it chronologically, or in a priority manner or in a cause-effect manner ; since Ra describes it as first there existing infinity, and infinity being the first thing there is, and then putting each in a sequence, it means that there was either a 'chronological' sequence, or a priority sequence, or an importance sequence, or a cause-effect sequence, or a hierarchy.

the thing is, there was a sequence/order as Ra tells us, whatever that sequence/order is.

OK. Good response!

[Poffo]

While I find this side-discussion highly interesting and amusing, how does it all relate to the original post/topic?

Why is it amusing to me? Because what we have here is one infinite entity arguing with itself about the nature of itself, using the idea of finite steps/distortions, which is afterall infinite in scope and thus incapable of being pinned down.

Ra was attempting to disseminate concepts related to the nature of reality and infinity itself, through a highly distorted mechanism (channeling) which is further distorted due to the necessity of words which are the very definition of definition.

The idea of Intelligent Infinity and its distortions, happening in an order, is distorted already since "time" didn't yet exist. We can try to intellectually grasp all of these concepts and place it into a rigid framework but in the end it's ALL erroneous due to the infinite source from which it all springs.

When I say I am the Creator, it's clearly paradoxical because I'm saying it to the Creator, in the guise of a forum populated with co-Creators on a planetary Logos which created it, which is itself created by the Sun, which is created by the Galaxy, and we could see this going on infinitely. So if every "thing" is a defined part of the original infinite intelligence, we could call it Logos, in the sense of the original Greek definition of "word". A word is a name and a name is word. Things are logoic.

That being said, I also think it's safe to say that even though Intelligent Infinity is THE Creator, each Logos is expressing the Creator in its own unique way, and in the case of Logoii proper (as opposed to the logoic basis of "things") they are also Creators.

The problem with rigidly defining the products of infinity is that when you go back to the source it's all unified anyway and the definitions are the distortions. Infinity defines itself through its distortions, which is why I believe Ra is quite correct in saying that the Infinity is the Creation, because the illusion of finiteness which Creation necessarily exists by is a projection of infinity itself and is thus infinity in disguise.

Don't get me wrong, I love putting things in their place and grasping their unique nature, attributes, etc, as much as the next guy/gal. This is what logic and thus science does and I appreciate science for its ability to do so. What science cannot do however is fathom the truly infinite nature of all things because a holistic approach is needed to do so, and such holism includes that which cannot be known quantitatively.

I didn't intend to distort this thread even further off its topical track but I felt the need to step in and add some perspective to an issue which is ultimately fundamentally unresolvable from the POV of 3rd density.

/:idea:

[unity100]

it doesnt matter whether we take it chronologically, or in a priority manner or in a cause-effect manner ; since Ra describes it as first there existing infinity, and infinity being the first thing there is, and then putting each in a sequence, it means that there was either a 'chronological' sequence, or a priority sequence, or an importance sequence, or a cause-effect sequence, or a hierarchy.

the thing is, there was a sequence/order as Ra tells us, whatever that sequence/order is.

OK. Good response!

and moreover, there is one point i am concerned with ;

ra says it was declared that creator should know itself, and it would do this freely. then, it gave free will to itself.

now, there is a very important issue here.

if, it was the creator doing this declaration/decision (aka infinite intelligence), then it means that creator, infinite intelligence WAS there before second distortion love.

but, and this is the quite important point ;

if, the creator/infinite intelligence was NOT there when this declaration is being made, this has a very important conclusion aside from maybe making the intelligent infinity and second distortion love closer :

that means there is an even higher existential principle that does the declaration in ways which the creator will know itself.

While I find this side-discussion highly interesting and amusing, how does it all relate to the original post/topic?

imo loosely.

side branch of a side branch, brainstorming and muses and inspiration got this side discussion to this point.

[solitary]

While I find this side-discussion highly interesting and amusing, how does it all relate to the original post/topic?

Why is it amusing to me? Because what we have here is one infinite entity arguing with itself about the nature of itself, using the idea of finite steps/distortions, which is afterall infinite in scope and thus incapable of being pinned down.

Finiting infinity and effing the ineffable, worlds without end.

[unity100]

Contemplation of infinity, is very horizon-widening. I very much suspect it has time/space consequences.

[solitary]

Contemplation of infinity, is very horizon-widening. I very much suspect it has time/space consequences.

Why do you suspect this? And such as?

I suspect enough contemplation can widen more than horizons.

[unity100]

Why do you suspect this? And such as?

i suspect, yet, because i havent concentrated on this possibility to make a detailed statement and description about it.

I suspect enough contemplation can widen more than horizons.

what's being contemplated will probably play a major factor regarding what is going to be widened.

[solitary]

i suspect, yet, because i havent concentrated on this possibility to make a detailed statement and description about it.

Aha. After you concentrate sufficiently, does the process go from suspicion to hypothesis to testing to conclusion? When do you arrive at absolute certainty? What is your scientific method?

what's being contemplated will probably play a major factor regarding what is going to be widened.

Quite so. I've been contemplating feeding my dogs, and if I carry that thought to fruition, they might be infinitesimally widened temporarily. Appreciative, at least. Just a little STO, considering this thread.

[unity100]

Aha. After you concentrate sufficiently, does the process go from suspicion to hypothesis to testing to conclusion? When do you arrive at absolute certainty? What is your scientific method?

Quite so. I've been contemplating feeding my dogs, and if I carry that thought to fruition, they might be infinitesimally widened temporarily. Appreciative, at least. Just a little STO, considering this thread.

i see unproductive sarcasm in your posts. i find it irritating, so i will not respond. if you want to have a meaningful conversation, you can change your attitude.

have a nice evening.

[solitary]

Aha. After you concentrate sufficiently, does the process go from suspicion to hypothesis to testing to conclusion? When do you arrive at absolute certainty? What is your scientific method?

Quite so. I've been contemplating feeding my dogs, and if I carry that thought to fruition, they might be infinitesimally widened temporarily. Appreciative, at least. Just a little STO, considering this thread.

i see unproductive sarcasm in your posts. i find it irritating, so i will not respond. if you want to have a meaningful conversation, you can change your attitude.

have a nice evening.

We usually see what we want to see, whether or not it's there. That's your choice, to see sarcasm where none was intended. Therefore, you are irritated by something that doesn't exist. This forum is about life on planet earth, and one need not take oneself too seriously.

If you see a problem in my attitude, perhaps you should examine your own.

And thank you, I am anticipating a quite lovely evening. May yours be likewise.

[LsavedSmeD]

Aside from everything -


The Creator does not properly create as much as it experiences itself which brings us to -

"Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity (or the Oneness), there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration thus is free to continue infinitely into an eternal present."


Which means, paradoxically, that the creator will never truly know itself entirely and thus the journey of seeking is amarathine.


Conclusion: There is no conclusion whatsoever, Infinity must comprehend infinity in finite continuums. Being that there is an infinite array of finite continuums, the comprehension of Infinity by Infinity is indefinitely in action.

So what does this mean?....

Our argument - even if it comes to a conclusion - brings about another argument just as one creation brings itself to another and thus the hypocrisy is that we are arguing to come to a conclusion that contradicts the reason for coming to the conclusion anyways.

[Ali Quadir]

Moderator note: Minor edit. One sentence removed.

@LsavedSmeD
I think you've got an important point. There is infinity in many different directions. We use to think in macro infinity... But there's also the micro infinity. Every time we look at an object on a smaller scale it will reveal a smaller micro cosmos with it's own laws and uniqueness.

Something without boundaries is either infinitely large or infinitely small.

This is representative of a fractal universe, not of an infinite universe in the traditional 3d sense. Infinity is a concept that is distorted in 3d consciousness. Infinity exists everywhere where we can keep reinventing the way we look at things. So that includes the finite and ordinary. When Ra speaks about intelligent infinity he's not speaking about something that has horizons. But not necessarily about something large in size either.

William Blake said it well in his famous poem.

To see the universe in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wildflower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.