The Star, The Moon, and The Sun in relation to the positive adept

[Plenum]

these three cards hold the central position in the chain of Spirit Archetypes.

as listed, and enumerated, these seven cards are, in order:

the Devil, the Tower, the Star, the Moon, the Sun, the Judgement, the Cosmos

so these three cards are in absolutely prime position.

in terms of their functionality, these three cards represent the Catalyst of the Spirit, the Experience of the Spirit, and the Significator of the Spirit.

the first 2 cards in the chain (the Devil and the Tower) are the matrix and the potentiator respectively. In my view, the matrix and the potentiator tend to operate on their own, almost like the autonomous nervous system, and while it is helpful to understand their place in the sequence of things, it is not necessary (in my view) to evoke and work with them as much as the central three cards - where the volitional aspect of interpretation plays a much greater role.

now what does Ra offer on the Star card?

this card is most commonly referenced as the Star of Hope:

80.13 Ra: I am Ra. The excursion of which you speak and the process of disassociation is most usually linked with that archetype you call Hope which we would prefer to call Faith.

This archetype is the Catalyst of the Spirit and, because of the illuminations of the Potentiator of the Spirit, will begin to cause these changes in the adept’s viewpoint.

now, when Ra talks about 'changes in the adept's viewpoint', what are they referring to?

it is in reference to the previous 2 Q&A's, of which the relevant parts are:

- -

Ra: I am Ra. This is likely to occur.

The apparent happening is disassociation whether the truth is service to self and thus true disassociation from other-selves or service to others

and thus true association with the heart of all other-selves and disassociation only from the illusory husks which prevent the adept from correctly perceiving the self and other-self as one.

...

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect.

This disassociation from the miasma of illusion and misrepresentation of each and every distortion is a quite necessary portion of an adept’s path.

It may be seen by others to be unfortunate.

what is this 'dissociation from the illusion'?

is it not best illustrated by lifting the eyes to the heavens, rather than seeing the 'miasma' of the physical plane? that is not to denigrate the body and physical experience, but rather to understand the context in which the physical experience takes place - that is, the physical being a tool or expression or manifestation of spiritual lessons.

to 'see through' the illusion, and all the biases and ongoing distortions, one must utilize the Star to elevate one's viewpoint, and walk a different path. The Star offers a different kind of light than physical, corporeal light - it is, rather, the Light of the Spirit which guides us on a new, different journey while still ensconced within a physical vehicle. We still use the same tools (the body complex, the mind complex), but with the Light of the Spirit (star, moon, sun), we put these resources to different purposes. And it is always a choice whether we recognise this spiritual light or not. That is the volitional aspect.

- -

if we may skip forward to the Sun card (and return to the Moon shortly), the Sun, and its brilliant effulgence, is what the positive adept is striving for, and yet it is the rare achievement of an elite few.

pics:



"Ra: Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun."

indeed, the Sun as the Significator of the Spirit represents an unclouded and ongoing clear perception through the illusion. It is being able to operate consistently at the level of someone who has 'finished the game', and is able to co-create as a fellow sub-Logos; as is shown in the picture, the circle represents a completion and balancing of seemingly opposed forces; the male seeking, and the female sought, this is a unification that takes place within the self, an alchemical marriage. (somewhat different to the Lovers card which represents a choice in mental polarization, the Sun here is a unification of self at the deepest level).

and although the attainment of the clear, shining Sun is the privince of the few, the continued use of the Catalyst (the Star) and working through the Moon (the Experience) permits longer glimpses of the unobscured light of the inner Sun (what Ra calls the Polaris, or the inner light).

each movement through the Star and the Moon leads onward to the co-creating Sun.

- -

now onto the Moon. This is where most of us will spend our time; dealing with the fluctuating perceptions of deeper reality.

as the moon waxes and wanes, so do our moods and perceptions of a spiritual reality. Sometimes, it is as clear as day, and we can read by the Full Moon, and see us and our relations to others in the clearest and most expressed fashion. And then when the Moonlight is gone, we are left in near darkness again, not a depression as such (which is more a sign of a blocked Star), but rather the lack of moonlight shows us our own lack of perception and inability to bring light to a given situation. This ongoing fluctuation (the waxing and waning of spiritual light and clear, unsullied perception) is how most of us spend our spiritual journey. Some days are great, other days less so, but the memory of clarity is what drives the desire to seek understanding (clear perception).

Ra offers a panoply of thoughts on this card in relation to the positive adept:

80.15 The Experience of the Spirit, that which you have called the Moon, is then, by far, the more manifest of influences upon the polarity of the adept.

80.15 Even the most unhappy of experiences, shall we say, which seem to occur in the Catalyst of the adept, seen from the viewpoint of the spirit, may, with the discrimination possible in shadow, be worked with until light equaling the light of brightest noon descends upon the adept and positive or service-to-others illumination has occurred.

80.10 By far, the majority of adepts remain groping in the moonlight and, as we have said, this light can deceive as well as uncover hidden mystery.

The Moon is the Experience of the Spirit.



I chose the black&white version of this card as it seems more apt: and much like a black and white semi-tone image found in newspapers, the intermingling of various intensities of light and dark gives the end result of a type of 'greyness'; which is how most of us are composed. We are neither the full bright light of the sun (unclouded by self-distortions), and neither someone who dwells in ever-darkness, unrelieved by joy and happiful happenings. It is a certain greyness of admixture, a diffusion of the inner Light which the Moon points to.

but again, this is the nature of Experience. We use it, and work through it, to gain glimpses of the Sun. Or as Ra so eloquently put it above:

"Even the most unhappy of experiences, shall we say, which seem to occur in the Catalyst of the adept, seen from the viewpoint of the spirit, may, with the discrimination possible in shadow, be worked with until light equaling the light of brightest noon descends upon the adept and positive or service-to-others illumination has occurred."


- - -

so there we have it; the Star, the Moon, and the Sun archetypes. They hold the central position on the Chain of Light archetypes (spiritual qualities).

the first two archetypes (devil and tower) are the matrix and potentiator, and generate the subsequent catalyst.

the final two cards (the Judgment and the Cosmos) are the Transformation and Great Way; and are the means by which change is effectuated (card 20). and the context in which the change is effectuated (card 21).

the three cards sandwiched inbetween is where the personal interpretation and assessment and utilization of lived experience takes place. It's where the rubber meets the road if you will. It is the 'true feedback' if you will on how you are progressing on your spiritual path.

using the light of the spirit, it makes sense or illumines what takes place in the body complexes and mind complexes. It lends significance and meaning to the whole thing.

- -

the spirit complex is that which is progressively awakened in animals and especially pets. That is 2d. The 3d journey is about being able to utilize this spirit complex and demonstrate a responsibility and maturity in using this spirit complex so that the full entrance into a Spiritual Life (the dropping of the Veil, and 4d and higher experience) may take place.

when we are able to demonstrate the responsible use of the Light (spirit complex), the next phase beckons.

peace and namaste,

plenum

[ricdaw]

indeed, the Sun as the Significator of the Spirit represents an unclouded and ongoing clear perception through the illusion. It is being able to operate consistently at the level of someone who has 'finished the game', and is able to co-create as a fellow sub-Logos; as is shown in the picture, the circle represents a completion and balancing of seemingly opposed forces; the male seeking, and the female sought, this is a unification that takes place within the self, an alchemical marriage. (somewhat different to the Lovers card which represents a choice in mental polarization, the Sun here is a unification of self at the deepest level).

and although the attainment of the clear, shining Sun is the privince of the few, the continued use of the Catalyst (the Star) and working through the Moon (the Experience) permits longer glimpses of the unobscured light of the inner Sun (what Ra calls the Polaris, or the inner light).

each movement through the Star and the Moon leads onward to the co-creating Sun.

The "significance" of the Sun card (significator in Ra-speak) is not a progression of Star to Moon to Sun. The cards are not progressive. All three Significators are stand-alone concepts.

Hierophant = YOU. You are significant. Without you, what's the point of talking about this lifetime?

Hanged Man = service/sacrifice. Actually, no it doesn't. The concept is that the Body has one and only one purpose, to allow the YOU of the Hierophant to exist and experience life here in the Earth Life School. The "significance" of the body is that it . . . is subservient to the Mind and the needs of the true significator -- YOU. You are not your body. The body is a temporary vehicle for learning. In every lifetime it services the larger needs of the Significator. The body is expendable. The body is temporary. The body is a means to an end. This is the "significance" of the Hanged Man.

Sun = All That Is. The card is not about achieving a state of enlightenment. The Sun is about God. God loves (shines) on absolutely everyone. Positive polarity people and negative polarity people equally. It is an "equal opportunity" god for all. The card is not an exhortation or reward. The card is describing the fact that the primary "significance" of God is continuous and absolute love for everyone all the time without exception. We do not achieve the Sun. We bask in it. Novice and Adept alike. We are offered all of it at all times. The card is not a reward for high achievement. It is our birthright from the get-go. And it is enormous comfort. No matter how badly we screw up, no matter how much we achieve, God's love is utterly unchanged and constant. There is no GREATER love/rewards for the highly motivated and high achiever. God's love does not favor anyone. The whole point of this card is unconditional acceptance by All That Is. It is not a description of a person who has achieved a certain level of spiritual advancement.

[Nicholas]

now, when Ra talks about 'changes in the adept's viewpoint', what are they referring to?

it is in reference to the previous 2 Q&A's, of which the relevant parts are:

- -

Ra: I am Ra. This is likely to occur.

The apparent happening is disassociation whether the truth is service to self and thus true disassociation from other-selves or service to others

and thus true association with the heart of all other-selves and disassociation only from the illusory husks which prevent the adept from correctly perceiving the self and other-self as one.

...

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect.

This disassociation from the miasma of illusion and misrepresentation of each and every distortion is a quite necessary portion of an adept’s path.

It may be seen by others to be unfortunate.

what is this 'dissociation from the illusion'?

I just highlighted the bits in the quotes you shared Plenum to express what I found relevant and applicable in my own journey thus far.

Here is what Quo said on this subject. Note that it was their request to the group to speak on this.

We are not encouraging you to withdraw from the world. We are not encouraging you to separate yourself from society. But we are encouraging you to come to appreciate yourself in a different way than society shall ever appreciate you.

Your culture is a very disempowering culture, in our humble opinion. It seems to be bent upon removing from your mind any thoughts that do not have to do with maintaining the status quo of life as a consumer.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0422.aspx

To use the matrix film as an example of disassociation, Morpheus takes Neo into a training program where they are in a busy street with lots of people going back and forth as obedient and unquestioning participants in the matrix.
Ignoring the narrative where words like 'enemy' and 'fight' are used, Morpheus sais to Neo early on in this clip "You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged"



So our 3rd density reality is an illusion, however for the adept to change their viewpoint they must become aware of the illusion or 'matrix' within our illusory reality.

It is no wonder that depression effects so many of us during this transition, looking at it from this standpoint.

[Plenum]

Sun = All That Is. The card is not about achieving a state of enlightenment. The Sun is about God. God loves (shines) on absolutely everyone. Positive polarity people and negative polarity people equally. It is an "equal opportunity" god for all. The card is not an exhortation or reward. The card is describing the fact that the primary "significance" of God is continuous and absolute love for everyone all the time without exception. We do not achieve the Sun. We bask in it. Novice and Adept alike. We are offered all of it at all times. The card is not a reward for high achievement. It is our birthright from the get-go. And it is enormous comfort. No matter how badly we screw up, no matter how much we achieve, God's love is utterly unchanged and constant. There is no GREATER love/rewards for the highly motivated and high achiever. God's love does not favor anyone. The whole point of this card is unconditional acceptance by All That Is. It is not a description of a person who has achieved a certain level of spiritual advancement.

what about these 2 exchanges here?

80.17 Questioner: How would you describe the Significator of the Spirit?

Ra: I am Ra. In answer to the previous query we set about doing just this. The Significator of the Spirit is that living entity which either radiates or absorbs the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator, radiates it to others or absorbs it for the self.

80.18 Questioner: Then would this process of radiation or absorption, since we have what I would call a flux or flux rate, be the measure of the power of the adept?

Ra: I am Ra. This may be seen to be a reasonably adequate statement.

here the Significator of the Spirit is described with a variable quality.

1) the power of the Spirit can either radiate or absorb, depending on whether one is making positive or negative uses of the common Light - "radiates or absorbs the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator, radiates it to others or absorbs it for the self."

2) there is a measure of the 'flux rate' or the power of the adept, depending on how well integrated the spirit is with the other complexes.

the Significator here has as much variability and accumulation as say the other Significators, that of the Hierophant and the Hanged Man.

and don't forget that all these significators exist within the deep mind, and so are a total record of accumulated understandings relative to the self.

[Shemaya]

Hi Plenum et al,
I'm glad I stopped by and saw this thread, it's so insightful and pertinent for me on my path, which has been a journey of the mind/ body/ spirit for sure.

Plenum, your comments are really helpful regarding the Sun and make so much sense. For me it truly is an integration of the yin / yang, male / female sides of myself so that I can truly radiate positively. Rather than having a negative , egoic and enculturated neediness, that is needing other's energy to fill me, this radiation is sourced from the one infinite Creator, and more specifically my individual soul.

Even when on the positive path, egoic deficits create a negative energetic state. And those egoic deficits are created by our culture, childhood, social conditioning, acceptance of the status quo ...remaining plugged into the matrix. An integration of our yin and yang energies, male and female aspects is a prerequisite .When the sun is fully embodied, there is radiation truly like the sun, divine love lit upon all within your realm. I associate this with the yellow ray also, as Ra says it fully activates when you love all within your community, or something to that effect.

Peace to all.

[ricdaw]

what about these 2 exchanges here?

here the Significator of the Spirit is described with a variable quality.

I forgot the significance of the two characters on the card in addition to the sun. The card does depict the two polarization paths. But I submit it does not depict an achievement of a particular status of that polarization. There are two paths. They have qualities. But they are not rewards for successful use of Star and Moon.

---

what about these 2 exchanges here?

here the Significator of the Spirit is described with a variable quality.

I forgot the significance of the two characters on the card in addition to the sun. The card does depict the two polarization paths. But I submit it does not depict an achievement of a particular status of that polarization. There are two paths. They have qualities. But they are not rewards for successful use of Star and Moon.

And on third thought, the cards very well might depict the ultimate state of polarization. So they would be a culmination of the Choice and be depiction of the fully polarized state. That can fairly be seen as a culmination as you suggest. Good insight Bring4th. Stretched me with that one.

[JustLikeYou]

The "significance" of the Sun card (significator in Ra-speak) is not a progression of Star to Moon to Sun. The cards are not progressive. All three Significators are stand-alone concepts.

I agree fully. Just for the record.

Hierophant = YOU. You are significant. Without you, what's the point of talking about this lifetime?

It seems to me that this depends on your definition of "YOU." A common psychological model (the one that Jung embraced) is that there is an ego and a self. The ego is what you think of as yourself. The self is much broader and more encompassing than the ego (for the ego is within it). Although I tend to avoid copying and pasting disparate theoretical models upon one another, the parallel seems fairly close here.

The Hierophant, as I understand it, is the incarnate self, the self which thinks, feels, acts, etc. It is a sub-logos in its own right, given the freedom to choose how it will respond to itself by virtue of the veil between the conscious and unconscious. This "little self," however, is not the only thing that we mean when we say "I." Those who have a requisite level of spiritual awareness tend to refer sometimes to the greater self, the self that perceives union of all with all, in the use of the word "I."

Hanged Man = service/sacrifice. Actually, no it doesn't. The concept is that the Body has one and only one purpose, to allow the YOU of the Hierophant to exist and experience life here in the Earth Life School. The "significance" of the body is that it . . . is subservient to the Mind and the needs of the true significator -- YOU. You are not your body. The body is a temporary vehicle for learning. In every lifetime it services the larger needs of the Significator. The body is expendable. The body is temporary. The body is a means to an end. This is the "significance" of the Hanged Man.

Agreed, though the body is also a part of me. It is the part of me that offers, or sacrifices, itself so that I may experience.

Sun = All That Is. The card is not about achieving a state of enlightenment. The Sun is about God. God loves (shines) on absolutely everyone. Positive polarity people and negative polarity people equally. It is an "equal opportunity" god for all. The card is not an exhortation or reward. The card is describing the fact that the primary "significance" of God is continuous and absolute love for everyone all the time without exception. We do not achieve the Sun. We bask in it. Novice and Adept alike. We are offered all of it at all times. The card is not a reward for high achievement. It is our birthright from the get-go. And it is enormous comfort. No matter how badly we screw up, no matter how much we achieve, God's love is utterly unchanged and constant. There is no GREATER love/rewards for the highly motivated and high achiever. God's love does not favor anyone. The whole point of this card is unconditional acceptance by All That Is.

This is where I'll really have to disagree. Whereas the Hierophant depicts the incarnate sub-logos, whose lifespan is equal to a single lifetime, the Sun depics the discarnate sub-logos, whose lifespan has is equal to an octave of experience. The Hierophant, then, is sub-logos to the logos that is the inner Sun, or Polaris.

This Sun is not the One Infinite Creator, for the Logos is the manifestation of the OIC. The Logos is the focused Intelligent Energy which seeks to manifest the potential of Intelligent Infinity, which is the OIC.

Thus, the inner Sun or Logos is the Godspark, the Atman; it is not the Godhead, Brahman. It has the properties you ascribe to it above, but it is individuated.

[The Significator of the Spirit] is not a description of a person who has achieved a certain level of spiritual advancement.

I agree and I disagree.

The Hierophant depicts a person who consciously and carefully creates his own experience. The Hanged Man depicts a person who consciously and carefully accepts limitations and offers resources for the purpose of manifesting an experience. While these images do depict the activity of the Significators, they depict this activity without distortion.

The activity of the Sun is to exist always in a state of perfect unity with the All, to be at peace with the self and therefore enlightened. As Ra says, "The crown is already upon the head." Although the Spirit always exists in this place, we do not always have access to this experience in a conscious and undistorted way. Thus, the experience of the Sun undistorted is a privilege won by spiritual advancement, despite the fact that it was always there whether you knew it or not. As the buddhists say, you are already enlightened; you just have to learn that you are.

[ricdaw]

Hierophant = YOU. You are significant. Without you, what's the point of talking about this lifetime?

It seems to me that this depends on your definition of "YOU." A common psychological model (the one that Jung embraced) is that there is an ego and a self. The ego is what you think of as yourself. The self is much broader and more encompassing than the ego (for the ego is within it). Although I tend to avoid copying and pasting disparate theoretical models upon one another, the parallel seems fairly close here.

The Hierophant, as I understand it, is the incarnate self, the self which thinks, feels, acts, etc.

I agree.

It is a sub-logos in its own right, given the freedom to choose how it will respond to itself by virtue of the veil between the conscious and unconscious. This "little self," however, is not the only thing that we mean when we say "I." Those who have a requisite level of spiritual awareness tend to refer sometimes to the greater self, the self that perceives union of all with all, in the use of the word "I."

Without drawing the boundaries between the little "I" and the Higher Self "I", I think of the Heirophant as that portion which is exercising Free Will in this lifetime. (Of course, within any larger gameplan laid down by the Higher Self ahead of the incarnation, or by the smaller "I" who is actively participating in the spiritual progression.)

Sun = All That Is. The card is not about achieving a state of enlightenment. The Sun is about God. God loves (shines) on absolutely everyone. Positive polarity people and negative polarity people equally. It is an "equal opportunity" god for all. The card is not an exhortation or reward. The card is describing the fact that the primary "significance" of God is continuous and absolute love for everyone all the time without exception. We do not achieve the Sun. We bask in it. Novice and Adept alike. We are offered all of it at all times. The card is not a reward for high achievement. It is our birthright from the get-go. And it is enormous comfort. No matter how badly we screw up, no matter how much we achieve, God's love is utterly unchanged and constant. There is no GREATER love/rewards for the highly motivated and high achiever. God's love does not favor anyone. The whole point of this card is unconditional acceptance by All That Is.

This is where I'll really have to disagree. Whereas the Hierophant depicts the incarnate sub-logos, whose lifespan is equal to a single lifetime, the Sun depics the discarnate sub-logos, whose lifespan has is equal to an octave of experience. The Hierophant, then, is sub-logos to the logos that is the inner Sun, or Polaris.

While Logos and Sub-Logos are part of Ra's teachings, I don't believe that the cards express any of that teaching. You are correct that the Sun is a sub-logos. But I don't think the sun in the Sun card is meant to be a sub-logos depiction. It is intended to represent instead All That Is. The ancient Egyptians (probably?) didn't have any idea of galaxy or universe so I am reluctant to conclude that the card carries forward that learn/teaching. I posit that the sun is intended to represent God, not a sub-logos of God, for the purposes of the tarot and its teachings. But I do agree with you on the larger structure.

This Sun is not the One Infinite Creator, for the Logos is the manifestation of the OIC. The Logos is the focused Intelligent Energy which seeks to manifest the potential of Intelligent Infinity, which is the OIC.

I totally agree with you, but don't think the tarot expresses these truths.

[The Significator of the Spirit] is not a description of a person who has achieved a certain level of spiritual advancement.

I agree and I disagree.

The Hierophant depicts a person who consciously and carefully creates his own experience. The Hanged Man depicts a person who consciously and carefully accepts limitations and offers resources for the purpose of manifesting an experience..

I think the Hanged Man is not a person. It is a symbolic representation of "a body" (generic, non-personal) that is of service to the Hierophant. I don't think the card means limitations (except possibly in a tarot reading). Nor is it a call to accept limitations. The significance of this card, to me, is that the body is useful, but working on the body or for the body (or for anything physical for that matter) is not warranted. The body is disposable in the greater scheme of things. And physicality, and its seeming importance, is illusion. The body is a means to an end.

The activity of the Sun is to exist always in a state of perfect unity with the All, to be at peace with the self and therefore enlightened. As Ra says, "The crown is already upon the head." Although the Spirit always exists in this place, we do not always have access to this experience in a conscious and undistorted way. Thus, the experience of the Sun undistorted is a privilege won by spiritual advancement, despite the fact that it was always there whether you knew it or not. As the buddhists say, you are already enlightened; you just have to learn that you are.

That is quite beautiful.[/i]

[JustLikeYou]

While Logos and Sub-Logos are part of Ra's teachings, I don't believe that the cards express any of that teaching. You are correct that the Sun is a sub-logos. But I don't think the sun in the Sun card is meant to be a sub-logos depiction. It is intended to represent instead All That Is. The ancient Egyptians (probably?) didn't have any idea of galaxy or universe so I am reluctant to conclude that the card carries forward that learn/teaching. I posit that the sun is intended to represent God, not a sub-logos of God, for the purposes of the tarot and its teachings. But I do agree with you on the larger structure.

Well, are we studying the cards or the archetypal mind? If the latter, then it is quite acceptable to think subtler thoughts than the Egyptians did. Besides, Ra claims to have fashioned the images and then provided them to the Egyptians. So the question is what Ra intended by a particular symbol, rather than what the Egyptians were capable of understanding.

Moreover, I'm not sure I made my claim clear enough. Allow me to clarify:

1. Logos = Central Galactic Sun
2. Sub-logos = Solar Sun
3. Sub-sub-logos = mind/body/spirit complex totality (Polaris, the inner Sun)
4. Sub-sub-sub-logos = incarnate mind (the waking mind)

I am suggesting that it is the third which is represented by the sun in #19, and the fourth which is depicted by #5 as a whole.

I think the Hanged Man is not a person.

I was referring to the picture on the card, in which there is found a hanging man.

It is a symbolic representation of "a body" (generic, non-personal) that is of service to the Hierophant. I don't think the card means limitations (except possibly in a tarot reading). Nor is it a call to accept limitations. The significance of this card, to me, is that the body is useful, but working on the body or for the body (or for anything physical for that matter) is not warranted. The body is disposable in the greater scheme of things. And physicality, and its seeming importance, is illusion. The body is a means to an end.

Agreed.

[ricdaw]

Well, are we studying the cards or the archetypal mind? If the latter, then it is quite acceptable to think subtler thoughts than the Egyptians did. Besides, Ra claims to have fashioned the images and then provided them to the Egyptians. So the question is what Ra intended by a particular symbol, rather than what the Egyptians were capable of understanding.

Moreover, I'm not sure I made my claim clear enough. Allow me to clarify:

1. Logos = Central Galactic Sun
2. Sub-logos = Solar Sun
3. Sub-sub-logos = mind/body/spirit complex totality (Polaris, the inner Sun)
4. Sub-sub-sub-logos = incarnate mind (the waking mind)

I am suggesting that it is the third which is represented by the sun in #19, and the fourth which is depicted by #5 as a whole.

Well . . . . I agree that card #5 is number 4 on your list. But I'm struggling with card #19 being the inner sun/complex totality or what I call the Oversoul. I really think the card depiction, with the two figures, is to say that God even loves people on the STS path. But if this sun is the Oversoul, it just loses that (I think) critical meaning.

Card 5 = the significance of the mental self is the Actor on this stage.

Card 12 = the significance of the body is to serve the mental self.

Card 19 = the significance of spirit is that it always shines on you, unconditionally.

I do see your logic, though. If card 19 is the Oversoul, it implies that your higher self has sub-selves from both polarities. (Because that's in the pciture.) I don't know what to think about that. Maybe both interpretations are valid? I sure can see the importance of the Oversoul having a card. Hmmm. I need to reflect on this some more.

[JustLikeYou]

I'm wasn't saying that the entirety of archetype #19 depicts the Oversoul; only that the image of the sun in the card depicts the Oversoul. But, now that I think more about it, the Creator can be located in many kinds of experience, both within and beyond the self. I'm thinking that maybe it is not necessary to postulate exactly which form of the Creator the image of the sun refers to.

Until this very moment, I had misread Ra in this quotation:

80.17

The Significator of the Spirit is that living entity which either radiates or absorbs the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator, radiates it to others or absorbs it for the self.

Somehow I had assumed that the "living entity which either radiates or absorbs" was represented on the card by the image of the sun. But, now that I am rereading and reflecting, it could also be that the image of the conscious and subconscious holding hands in the circle of flowers is the "living entity" and that "the love and light of the One Infinite Creator" refers to the image of the sun as it shines upon the spirit.

I spent a couple of hours meditating on the archetypes today and one of the things I came back with is that the Significator, #19, shows that your very existence is an act of service to the Creator, indicating that you are always serving the Creator no matter what you do and that the joy you experience in your life, no matter what the context, originates from the act of service that you cannot help but perform.

If card 19 is the Oversoul, it implies that your higher self has sub-selves from both polarities. (Because that's in the picture.)

Can you explain this? I don't see any imagery that explicitly suggests STO and STS in this card, though on a implicit level the male/female polarity contains in microcosm all other polarities.

[Unbound]

[Plenum]

Card 12 = the significance of the body is to serve the mental self.

so the body here is the instrument of experience?


card 12: the Hanged Man

my understanding of this card is particularly limited.

perhaps you could expand on some of the symbolism present in the card.

for eg - the tied hands?

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I have to say, if I were to choose a depiction of this Archetype (the Significator of the Body) I would probably go with something different.

[ricdaw]

Card 12 = the significance of the body is to serve the mental self.

so the body here is the instrument of experience?


card 12: the Hanged Man

my understanding of this card is particularly limited.

perhaps you could expand on some of the symbolism present in the card.

for eg - the tied hands?

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I have to say, if I were to choose a depiction of this Archetype (the Significator of the Body) I would probably go with something different.

The tied hands are to juxtapose the "active" hands in the Mind Row (cards 1 thru 7). Only Will/Consciousness gets to point at things, so I assume those active hand poses (whether with orbs or swords or whatever) are intended to convey the active principle of willing action. But the Hanged Man's hands are tied. The Body does not get to direct or will itself, so its "willing" hands are not free to make those kind of choices. Instead, the figure's hands are "tied" to the Magician's will. There is a surrender here, not a binding. (If the figure had been female I might have interpreted this in the opposite way. Male connotes an active surrender, not a passive one.) Those hands, while not free to point and do, nonetheless are actually doing something. In many cards, these hands are dropping something into the water below the figure. I posit that this is intended to mean "feeding" the spirit. (Water being another symbol for Spirit in the cards.) In some decks, there are fishes in the water who will feed on the Hanged Man's offering. Fish, too, are a spiritual symbol, as they live surrounded by the spiritual waters.

So our Hanged Man while tied, is not bound. (Note that one whole leg is free too.) This is a voluntary tie. It is a sacrifice of the Body in service to the Mind to enrich the Spirit. (Note that the figure is bound not to a cross, but to a squareish arch structure, which evokes the Mental Mind in which the Hierophant lives.) Thus, the significance of the body is to serve the mental self.

This is not a trivial message. Down here in the Earth Life School, we spend a lot of time and effort focused on our bodies: what to eat, what we look like, whether we are going to attract a mate, have children. There is a deep belief that having children is a moral imperative to provide a sense of immortality to your genes/family/self. (Still an important function to allow new spirits a body to inhabit.)

But to truly grok that YOU ARE NOT a body, that it is a VEHICLE, not an end in and of itself, is a radical and liberating archetype for everyday life down here. It puts things into perspective vis-a-vis appearance and longevity. And it conveys the message that the body you have, for all its benefits and faults, was designed on purpose by the Mind. We do not have a lottery system where the stork drops souls willy nilly into the next available body. We have a planned system where souls build their own bodies. Whatever catalyst that your body provides in and of itself, is meaningful. It warrants some thought. It's not too bad that your body tends to gain weight. It's why would I choose/design a body that gains weight so easily? What message am I sending myself? What was my pre-life plan for this curious attribute? What does it cause me to do/keep me from doing? Can I imagine why I would plan to do this to myself?

The Hanged Man Archetype is a very powerful and useful one.