Polarity of next Octave

[Unbound]

First density of this Octave is Eighth density of previous Octave.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder if 1st density of next Octave has awareness or if it's Creator's awareness. And is there individuality?

[third-density-being]

The previous Octave's polarity was harvested thus:

4 ↥ Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

Returning to your quote Dear Tanner, I've found source of my doubts if there were/is "previous/"lower" Octave of experience. Its all due to this quote:

(82.10)
Ra: I am Ra. We touch upon previous material. The harvest of the previous
octave, was the Creator of Love manifested in mind, body, and spirit. This
form of the Creator experiencing Itself may perhaps be said to be the first
division.

- and Knowledge Shared in next quastion:

(82.11)
Ra: I am Ra. Your queries seem more confused than your basic mental
distortions in this area. Let us speak in general and perhaps you may find a
less confused and more simple method of eliciting information in this area.

A very great deal of creation was manifested without the use of the concepts
involved in consciousness, as you know it. The creation itself is a form of
consciousness which is unified, the Logos being the one great heart of
creation. The process of evolution through this period, which may be seen
to be timeless, is most valuable to take into consideration, for it is against
the background of this essential unity of the fabric of creation that we find
the ultimate development of the Logoi which chose to use that portion of
the harvested consciousness of the Creator to move forward with the process
of knowledge of self. As it had been found to be efficient to use the various
densities, which are fixed in each octave, in order to create conditions in
which self-conscious sub-Logoi could exist, this was carried out throughout
the growing flower-strewn field, as your simile suggests, of the one infinite
creation.

The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience
of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was
singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The
lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory
rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the
quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density.

Still I'm not sure, I cannot determine one way or another. This is really great material for contemplation

[Unbound]

which are fixed in each octave,

Why would they say "each octave" if there was no more than one or a series?

[third-density-being]

which are fixed in each octave,

Why would they say "each octave" if there was no more than one or a series?

That is an excellent question indeed. It would suggest in my opinion that there are higher Octaves of experience than Our current one. But were there previous one? If yes, it was not an Octave of mind/body/spirit or mind/body/spirit complex as well as it wasn't an Octave of counsciousness as We understand it. In form We are now, I think this is the "first Octave" of experience.

In some sense I think Our current experience is a result of an experiments carried out by 'later Logoi"/certain group of Logoi that are seeking more and more efficient ways/methods of Creator experiencing Self.

(81.30)
Questioner: You stated earlier that toward the center of this galaxy is what,
to use a poor term, you could call the older portion where you would find
no service-to-self polarization. Am I correct in assuming that this is true
with the other galaxies with which Wanderers from Ra have experience? At
the center of these galaxies only the service-to-others polarity exists and the
experiment started farther out toward the rim of the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. Various Logoi and sub-Logoi had various methods of arriving
at the discovery of the efficiency of free will in intensifying the experience of
the Creator by the Creator. However, in each case this has been a pattern.

Questioner: You mean then that the pattern is that the service-to-self
polarization appeared farther out from the center of the galactic spiral?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: From this I will assume that from the beginning of the octave
we had the core of many galactic spirals forming, and I know that this is
incorrect in the sense of timelessness, but as the spiral formed then I am
assuming that in this particular octave the experiment of the veiling and the
extending of free will must have started, roughly, simultaneously in many,
many of the budding or building galactic systems. Am I in any way correct
with this assumption?

Ra: I am Ra. You are precisely correct. This instrument is unusually fragile
at this space/time and has used much of the transferred energy. We would
invite one more full query for this working.

Questioner: Actually, I don’t have much more on this except to make the
assumption that there must have been some type of communication
throughout the octave so that, when the first experiment became effective,
knowledge of this spread rapidly through the octave and was picked up by
other budding galactic spirals, you might say. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. To be aware of the nature of this
communication is to be aware of the nature of the Logos. Much of what
you call creation has never separated from the One Logos of this octave and
resides within the one infinite Creator. Communication in such an
environment is the communication of cells of the body. That which is
learned by one is known to all. The sub-Logoi, then, have been in the
position of refining the discoveries of what might be called the earlier sub-
Logoi. May we ask if we may answer any brief queries at this working?

I guess in some sense it can be said that the Entire Creation is an infinite experiment/attempt of Creator to know Creator. I'm just wondering if We are at situation of "latest experiment of sub-Logoi" that is carried out by many, many sub-Logoi (Our Sun included) throughout the Creation (or as it manifests to Us - throughout the Galaxies/Universe). Therefore when All in Our sub-Creation will re-Unite again, gained experience will be used for further refinement of methods of Creator experiencing Self, executed by sub-Logoi in their sub-Creation's enviroments/principles.

[AnthroHeart]

So those that came before without a veil, don't have free will?

[third-density-being]

So those that came before without a veil, don't have free will?

Firstly, it would be impossible for ANY Being in Creation not to have a Free Will - it is first distortion of The Law of One. In process of Creator knowing Self, Free Will is paramount.

That being said, I would like to point out the boundaries of Free Will. In my opinion they strongly depends upon "level of experience" at which Being is. For example "Free Will" in Our case means that We can experience Our-Selves in any way We see fit - of course as far as Our material form permits Us to do so; same goes for 'societal/cultural conditions" (500 years ago We could all be burned on a pile for voicing ideas opposite to the "Christian God teachings", etc.).
Boundaries of Ra's Free Will are different than Our boundaries.

Different argument may be made for component "Will" in expression "Free Will". One may say that boundaries of Being's Free Will depends upon the quality of Being's Will.

To take wider approach, We can say that boundaries of Our Free Will in this co-Creation are planned by Our sub-Logoi, which is experiencing It-Self through Us - sub-sub-Logoi, whom in process of Spirtual evolution will re-Unite with sub-Logoi and in that manner will provide "It" with Experience for given conditions/distortions. In some way sub-Logoi choosed for It-Self boundaries We/It are/is experiencing at this time, in this part of Creation (co-Creation).

[AnthroHeart]

Our boundaries of free will don't allow us to fly for instance. Plus make it difficult to manifest things out of thin air.

[Unbound]

Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

These tools were of two kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

I completely disagree that there was no experience in the form we know it in this form in the previous octave, just that the self-knowledge the Creator was realizing was of a different tier. (Meaning I believe there was incarnation, physical bodies, densities, etc) The last octave was an experiment with movement, so all of the same states of reality existed as they do in this octave, but the ways the Creator was experimenting were to do with the raw influence of movement. After the harvest of last octave where all the structures of mind/body/spirit and the first archetypes of mind were solidified, the base concepts that were "completed" in the last Octave were now rearranged and assessed against eachother in a new octave of experience and self-knowledge, this one surrounding not just raw movement, but beneficiaries and direction of service.

This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.

The Octave density crosses universe. We exist in one universe, the "previous octave" was another universe, and the next octave will be yet another universe. Of course all exist simultaneously, but they are each their own universes none-the-less which are united at the octave.

[third-density-being]

Dear Tanner,

Firstly I would like to write that it would be a LOT easier to conversate with You if You could put sources of your quotes (at least session number). That way I can read context in which recall by You quote was originally placed.

Secondly, first of recalled by You quotes pretty much states it clearly - there were/is previous/"lower" octave of expereince before Ours.

Thirdly to say/write that each Octave of experience resides in separate Universe is quite bold. Please explain how did You end up with such conclusion? It is very interesting for me personally.

Take Care

[Unbound]

Aha That is fair, although I would have to go hunting retrospectively now. My conclusion comes from how I understand the Octave density as a coalescing of the Creator with the Creator, a return to unity. I see it that all universes stem from this unity. I believe each octave is its own universe because I view the whole octave concept structure as a death and rebirth of a universe. I see it that each octave is like a book in a series and although each book carries on the same story from the last, it is still its own book, distinguished from the others.

[third-density-being]

Aha That is fair, although I would have to go hunting retrospectively now. My conclusion comes from how I understand the Octave density as a coalescing of the Creator with the Creator, a return to unity. I see it that all universes stem from this unity. I believe each octave is its own universe because I view the whole octave concept structure as a death and rebirth of a universe. I see it that each octave is like a book in a series and although each book carries on the same story from the last, it is still its own book, distinguished from the others.

Regarding sources of quotes - I've asked for it in the future. It's quite often in my case (and I guess I'm not alone in this) that I go back to some threads and read them again - when there are recalled quotes with information of session/question number, I can easly deepen my knowledge/understanding by quickly finding part of Ra's Teachings that I'm currently pursuing. That's the only reason I've asked about it.

Regarding your conclusion that each Octave of experience is separate Universe. When I've read your reply I started to browsing Book IV of The Law of One and I've found quote that supports your Understanding:

(81.28)
Questioner: Thank you. In this line of questioning I am trying to establish
a basis for understanding the foundation for not only the experience that we
have now but how the experience was formed and how it is related to all the
rest of the experience through the portion of the octave as we understand it.
I am assuming, then, that all of these galaxies, this infinite number of
galaxies that we can just begin to become aware of with our telescopes, are
all of the same octave. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

I would like to Thank You for this conversation as You've opened my Mind to the new point of viewing/understanding this Knowledge.
I hope I'll be able to do same for You some day

Take Care

[Unbound]

Yeah, I think it is a good practice for me to get in to, including the quote number. I appreciate you finding this quote which correlates with my understanding as I had not noticed it before, good find! I am always learning through every interaction, rest assured!

[AnthroHeart]

I ceased being able to follow the conversation a few posts ago
I'm not very bright.

[xise]

I speculate that progression through octaves is branching, like a tree. The root octave is one where the most basic concepts are studied and understood which give rise to more sophisticated inquiries.

I'm betting that as we go into the next octave we actually go into a number of parallel octaves each studying different concepts, which themselves branch off.

This speculation is based on my understanding of the fractal nature of reality, consciousness, and the universe. Just as our consciousness is a fractal of the one Creator; our incarnations are fractals of multiple incarnations by the Higher self; our reality within this Octave is one parallel experience within parallel timelines within the this Octave; so too do Octaves parallel and simultaneously exist in a fractal pattern.

[Unbound]

Well if there was a previous octave to this one, would that suggest there are parallel octaves to this octave?

[Unbound]

I ceased being able to follow the conversation a few posts ago
I'm not very bright.

Nonsense, you are incredibly intelligent, some people understand things one way, others understand things another. Do not feel slighted that you do not understand things in the same way others do because you still have equal or more understanding of things in your own way.

---

I wonder if 1st density of next Octave has awareness or if it's Creator's awareness. And is there individuality?

I would say first/eighth density is always Creator's awareness, especially since all other awareness is some subset of that prime awareness. I would also think there is individuality as I cannot see the usefulness of that concept being completely used up in an octave focused on knowing service to self/others.

[xise]

Well if there was a previous octave to this one, would that suggest there are parallel octaves to this octave?

Perhaps. Note that the branching paths of sts and sto doesn't occur until 3d so it's possible this octave is / is not part of parallel branches since it seems branching does not have to occur right near the base.

[Unbound]

54.10 ↥ Questioner: Then I will assume that the Creator in Its intelligent appraisal of a way of knowing Itself, created the concept of the seven areas of knowing. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially incorrect. The Logos creates light. The nature of this light thus creates the nature of the catalytic and energetic levels of experience in the creation. Thus it is that the highest of all honor/duties, that given to those of the next octave, is the supervision of light in its manifestations during the experiential times, if you will, of your cycles.

What do you think they mean by "experiential times"?

---

Well if there was a previous octave to this one, would that suggest there are parallel octaves to this octave?

Perhaps. Note that the branching paths of sts and sto doesn't occur until 3d so it's possible this octave is / is not part of parallel branches since it seems branching does not have to occur right near the base.

So while I understand the concept of parallel universes, what I wonder about is the application. How large are the "boundaries" between same/different universes?

[Parsons]

Forgive me for pure brainstorming/theorizing:

54.10 ↥ Questioner: Then I will assume that the Creator in Its intelligent appraisal of a way of knowing Itself, created the concept of the seven areas of knowing. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially incorrect. The Logos creates light. The nature of this light thus creates the nature of the catalytic and energetic levels of experience in the creation. Thus it is that the highest of all honor/duties, that given to those of the next octave, is the supervision of light in its manifestations during the experiential times, if you will, of your cycles.

What do you think they mean by "experiential times"?

I think they might be referring to "experiential times" as space/time and time/space, outside of which there is no experience(physical matter) / time.

---

Well if there was a previous octave to this one, would that suggest there are parallel octaves to this octave?

Perhaps. Note that the branching paths of sts and sto doesn't occur until 3d so it's possible this octave is / is not part of parallel branches since it seems branching does not have to occur right near the base.

So while I understand the concept of parallel universes, what I wonder about is the application. How large are the "boundaries" between same/different universes?

I would think the boundary would be the Void, so it could be considered infinitely large or small OR nonexistent.

[third-density-being]

Forgive me for pure brainstorming/theorizing:

54.10 ↥ Questioner: Then I will assume that the Creator in Its intelligent appraisal of a way of knowing Itself, created the concept of the seven areas of knowing. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially incorrect. The Logos creates light. The nature of this light thus creates the nature of the catalytic and energetic levels of experience in the creation. Thus it is that the highest of all honor/duties, that given to those of the next octave, is the supervision of light in its manifestations during the experiential times, if you will, of your cycles.

What do you think they mean by "experiential times"?

I think they might be referring to "experiential times" as space/time and time/space, outside of which there is no experience(physical matter) / time.

I think my understanding is same as Parsons, just clothe in different words/labels.

As "supervision of light in its manifestations during the experiental times" I understand existing Illusion of this Octave [(space/time)/(time/space)]. Word "experiental" itself - as I understand it - means that those concepts of sub-Logoi, which were deeply considered as refined ways of Creator knowing Self before Creation of this Octave (in Potentation), are now experienced empirically by above mentioned (Ours) sub-Logoi in its own Creation (in Activation).

Part "Thus it is that the highest of all honor/duties, that given to those of the next octave(..)" refers to harvest of experience of this entire Octave by sub-Logoi, which "will be" (poor term in timeless Creation, but best We have that We are able to understand) used as "base experience" for next Octave Creation - same as previous Octave experiental harvest was base for this Octave "shape"/"properties" of its Creation.

---

Well if there was a previous octave to this one, would that suggest there are parallel octaves to this octave?

Perhaps. Note that the branching paths of sts and sto doesn't occur until 3d so it's possible this octave is / is not part of parallel branches since it seems branching does not have to occur right near the base.

So while I understand the concept of parallel universes, what I wonder about is the application. How large are the "boundaries" between same/different universes?

I would think the boundary would be the Void, so it could be considered infinitely large or small OR nonexistent.

This I understand differently.
I think it is not proper to extend Our understanding of "Space" on "Placement"/"Location" of other Octaves.
It is Our (third density of this particular Octave) understanding that something is next to something else, or behind/above/below/inside/outside/etc. Those are expression of physical placement of phisical objects and its mutual relations in space.

All Octaves, the Entire Creation, may "resides" in one point - as We understand "space". What "separates" them maybe frequency of vibration, different for each Octave/sub-Creation.


At this point I would like to write that my previous assumption that "experience of next Octave" is "an experience of a Star" seems to me now so small-minded I unspeakable enjoy extending my understanding to a such degree. I'm sure there is an infinity of "available degree of understanding" ahead, for which I'm looking forward to (in this and next/higher densities).

But there are consequences of understanding "Octave" as entire Universe We're currently in. It would mean, that "Bing Bang" or however You may understand ways of how this Universe were created, is/were a beginning of this Octave - not the Entire Creation - "only" this part of sub-Creation.

I think that is the only logically explanation, how Ra - Being so far advanced in an evolutionary process - may know "very little" (as He/Them stated) of previous/next Octave.
Also when He/They said that this Universe is infinity, He/They were refering to this co-Creation/Octave.
That is mind-blowing