Law of One Advanced Teachings and The Mind

[AnthroHeart]

Fascinating. Just realized from a new angle. This means we'll have conscious control over our heart beating and breathing, all processes in our body that regulate temperature, the firing of all the neuron processes in the brain, etc. Even though it won't be a chemical body, there will still be a complexity to it.

Imagine what it must be like to know the place of every cell in your body.

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as my last post goes, I was speaking specifically about our conscious mind. After 3d life, we will still be conscious thinking beings, difference being we will be conscious of our subconscious as well, or rather the 2 minds will merge. The mind changes in functionality, purpose, and awareness depending on whatever part of existence you are in. I do not see the distinction you are talking about, I see the mind simply changing it's form and function.

Godspeed!

[Turtle]

Fascinating. Just realized from a new angle. This means we'll have conscious control over our heart beating and breathing, all processes in our body that regulate temperature, the firing of all the neuron processes in the brain, etc. Even though it won't be a chemical body, there will still be a complexity to it.

Imagine what it must be like to know the place of every cell in your body.

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as my last post goes, I was speaking specifically about our conscious mind. After 3d life, we will still be conscious thinking beings, difference being we will be conscious of our subconscious as well, or rather the 2 minds will merge. The mind changes in functionality, purpose, and awareness depending on whatever part of existence you are in. I do not see the distinction you are talking about, I see the mind simply changing it's form and function.

Godspeed!

The merging of conscious and subconscious minds does seem to imply an experience much like the one you described. I suppose each of us will find out when our incarnations are over.

Godspeed!

[unity100]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as my last post goes, I was speaking specifically about our conscious mind. After 3d life, we will still be conscious thinking beings, difference being we will be conscious of our subconscious as well, or rather the 2 minds will merge. The mind changes in functionality, purpose, and awareness depending on whatever part of existence you are in. I do not see the distinction you are talking about, I see the mind simply changing it's form and function.

Godspeed!

distinction is simple.

as long as your individual mind acts as a part of the mind of the societal complex, you will be acting like the societal complex, and will be catching up all that noise. all the limitations, 'intellect' etc, are included within this.

when you free your mind from the societal mind, your mind will be, your mind.

[Turtle]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as my last post goes, I was speaking specifically about our conscious mind. After 3d life, we will still be conscious thinking beings, difference being we will be conscious of our subconscious as well, or rather the 2 minds will merge. The mind changes in functionality, purpose, and awareness depending on whatever part of existence you are in. I do not see the distinction you are talking about, I see the mind simply changing it's form and function.

Godspeed!

distinction is simple.

as long as your individual mind acts as a part of the mind of the societal complex, you will be acting like the societal complex, and will be catching up all that noise. all the limitations, 'intellect' etc, are included within this.

when you free your mind from the societal mind, your mind will be, your mind.

I see what you mean now. On average, people do tend to think alike and follow similar thought patterns and conditioned responses to almost every type of event in their life. The deprogramming necessary to have a mind of your own is monumental in this world because of the veil. I have done much work on this in the past few years, and at times pushed myself too hard too fast, but it was worth it.

It has become a joy rather than a burden, to catch the conditioned thinking going on in my head and decide whether or not it serves myself and others well.

Godspeed!

[unity100]

I see what you mean now. On average, people do tend to think alike and follow similar thought patterns and conditioned responses to almost every type of event in their life.

its the societal mind. conditionings, experiences, preferences of the society. a greater 'me' if your 'me' is taken as a member of the society. so, just like science acts as a subset of the societal mind, a division of it, your mind also acts within the limitations and definitions of the society.

until you separate, free it from it.

The deprogramming necessary to have a mind of your own is monumental in this world because of the veil. I have done much work on this in the past few years, and at times pushed myself too hard too fast, but it was worth it.

It has become a joy rather than a burden, to catch the conditioned thinking going on in my head and decide whether or not it serves myself and others well.

Godspeed!

veil is overrated. knowledge comes to the one who asks it.

[Peregrinus]

One may think they can become knowledgeable, and may learn what they consider a great deal, but a real amount of knowledge is impossible in this mind/body, as it is not "wired" for such. As Q'uo has said, if we knew even 1% of what our spirit knows, it would destroy the human mind. If anyone clothed in the human mind/body thinks they are special and can attain true knowledge, then they only fool the self.*

This is the density of choice. Next, for a few, is the density of understanding (love). Worrying about what comes two densities above where one is now (the density of light - wisdom) is a waste of direction if one does not use the opportunity and knowledge gained with this limited human mind to move the process to the heart. We are in a unique time right now, that in which we live in both third and fourth density energy. Living as though in fourth density will become one's highest aspiration if they truly learn what is important; the rest will take care of itself.

* Moving into the permanent state of enlightenment being the exception.

[unity100]

If what are presented in Ra books couldnt be learned, they wouldnt be presented. its as simple as that. they are here, so it means we can learn and know these, and wander ahead as much as we can. not to mention that, arguing 'real amount of knowledge is not possible' is valid for EVERY density, every situation. with the mind/body/spirit complex of 5d, you wont be able to fully comprehend and manifest the understanding and knowledge of 7d. with the mind/body/spirit you have in 7d, you still cant comprehend the full knowledge of 1 octave later.

what you can understand however, is what you can understand. you wont be able to understand it until you push your boundary and see what you can understand. saying 'oh but we just cant understand', belittling and ignoring the mind part of mind/body/spirit, you will just stand where you are. wont go a step further.

it is also ironical that despite you are ignoring and belittling your mind, you are concentrating on other aspects of your being in a totally opposite fashion. you are exaggerating love, therefore you are putting an undue emphasis on your body/spirit part of your existence. what quo said would also easily pass valid for that. you wont be ever able to express the love manifestation of a mid 4d body, in your 3d or 3d/4d activated body, nomatter what you do. because, the current capabilities of your manifestation is below that point.

but, you are trying to do it, trying to push the boundary.

in the process you are also forgetting that, the mind/body/spirit is a complex, and also, the conduit in between spirit and the body is mind. by ignoring your mind, you are also ignoring the possibilities and extent of channeling the energy your spirit can provide.

this is a three sided business. you cant ignore one aspect of existence and expect to advance. you will sooner or later need to balance those aspects, nomatter how much you ignore.

moreover, thinking 'can we or can we not' is also nonsense. one of existence's purposes is to push limitations and develop further. you cant push limitations by thinking about limitations. with the mental energy spent on thinking 'can we' or thinking about 'whether we should', one could already have spent a good effort on the direction of improving in that area.

so, its a silly question and fixation. limitations is noone's business. you can do what you can do. before doing anything you can do, its nonsense to talk about limitations or get awed by them or do anything else.

[Turtle]

you can do what you can do. before doing anything you can do, its nonsense to talk about limitations or get awed by them or do anything else.

Unless one is not compelled to push the boundaries...or in my case, frequently tires of pushing the boundaries, heh.

[unity100]

Well. polarization, service, progress, evolution .. all of these are pushing the boundaries, or, require pushing the boundaries. Even if you are not pushing the existence's boundaries, it means youre pushing your boundaries. How do you explain going from 50% polarity to 51% polarity otherwise. a lot changes with every other percentage spiritually, mentally and bodily.

[Peregrinus]

If what are presented in Ra books couldnt be learned, they wouldnt be presented. its as simple as that. they are here, so it means we can learn and know these, and wander ahead as much as we can. not to mention that, arguing 'real amount of knowledge is not possible' is valid for EVERY density, every situation. with the mind/body/spirit complex of 5d, you wont be able to fully comprehend and manifest the understanding and knowledge of 7d. with the mind/body/spirit you have in 7d, you still cant comprehend the full knowledge of 1 octave later.

Each density above this one is 75 million years. That is time for learning, granted etoliated, but learning nonetheless. The time here in this third density is 75,000 years, and is but a blink of an eye, and even shorter if one is a wanderer and here for a shorter period of time. How much do you really think you read and understand from a book each time you blink your eyes?

what you can understand however, is what you can understand. you wont be able to understand it until you push your boundary and see what you can understand. saying 'oh but we just cant understand', belittling and ignoring the mind part of mind/body/spirit, you will just stand where you are. wont go a step further.

I am not ignoring or belittling anything. I have been given the knowledge which you seek, and in that knowledge know what is and is not important in this density. What one comes to understand when they are given greater knowledge is that they cannot possibly understand. Understanding is the purpose of fourth density.

I quote the Law of One:

Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

it is also ironical that despite you are ignoring and belittling your mind, you are concentrating on other aspects of your being in a totally opposite fashion. you are exaggerating love, therefore you are putting an undue emphasis on your body/spirit part of your existence. what quo said would also easily pass valid for that. you wont be ever able to express the love manifestation of a mid 4d body, in your 3d or 3d/4d activated body, no matter what you do. because, the current capabilities of your manifestation is below that point.

Again, I do not ignore or belittle anything. I accept these earthbound limitations for what they are. For you to suggest what my personal level of spiritual existence is... you cannot know, or even begin to suggest; to think otherwise is complete naivety.

but, you are trying to do it, trying to push the boundary.

Perhaps I am, but I do not weigh seeking knowledge as a priority. I did, like you, but came to know what I needed to know, which is what I convey to you.

in the process you are also forgetting that, the mind/body/spirit is a complex, and also, the conduit in between spirit and the body is mind. by ignoring your mind, you are also ignoring the possibilities and extent of channeling the energy your spirit can provide.

The mind/body/spirit is a complex? I'm sorry brother, but you are mistaken. The mind/body/spirit is a mind/body/spirit. The "complex" is the veil, that which you say is of minor consequence. The complex provides the illusion of separateness so that free will can be used without an understanding of the unity of all of creation.

I'm not sure why, but you seem to think that knowledge is the path to greater things, when that is not truth. There are many here on earth at this time that have limited intellectual being, and yet still learn their lessons and have a higher vibration than many possessing great intelligence. The ability of the ape mind intelligence is only the measure of a fraction of an inch on a yard stick, and nothing more.

moreover, thinking 'can we or can we not' is also nonsense. one of existence's purposes is to push limitations and develop further. you cant push limitations by thinking about limitations. with the mental energy spent on thinking 'can we' or thinking about 'whether we should', one could already have spent a good effort on the direction of improving in that area.

Improve as you will brother, for as I previously mentioned, all paths lead to the same place. Your path is as valid and beautiful as the rest, and in that is perfection

[unity100]

Each density above this one is 75 million years. That is time for learning, granted etoliated, but learning nonetheless. The time here in this third density is 75,000 years, and is but a blink of an eye, and even shorter if one is a wanderer and here for a shorter period of time. How much do you really think you read and understand from a book each time you blink your eyes?

you are confusing vibrational frequency increase, which is the particular type of learning you talk about, with the understanding and powers of the mind.

it is not a 'learning' process by the way, its an evolution process. and as Ra says, it is a long process to refine the rough, blunt dough.

I am not ignoring or belittling anything. I have been given the knowledge which you seek, and in that knowledge know what is and is not important in this density. What one comes to understand when they are given greater knowledge is that they cannot possibly understand. Understanding is the purpose of fourth density.

first of all, assuming being given the knowledge i seek, is over the top and unsound. you do not know what knowledge im seeking, i havent expressed it myself either. assuming that you have passed from the road i have passed, without providing any logical reasons shows the need for more 'mind' in your spiritual mix; you do not know about me, you just 'feel' that you think you know you have been 'given the knowledge i seek'. and, it is erroneous. and, that is despite i have mentioned in another discussion that, i havent been able to find the kind of interaction and work i have been looking for, and instead just have been compelled to participate in some discussions in order to caution wisdom too.

by the way, love, accepting and forgiving are the features of 4th density, and starting 'astralification'. not understanding. that is, of course, if you take understanding in the manner that 'understanding feelings and loving and others'.

Again, I do not ignore or belittle anything. I accept these earthbound limitations for what they are. For you to suggest what my personal level of spiritual existence is... you cannot know, or even begin to suggest; to think otherwise is complete naivety.

well, you were the one suggested that 'you have been given the knowledge that i am seeking' even before i made any comment, without any justification, because you just feel so. yet, i did not do anything as such, and still am not doing anything as such ; im moving from the arguments you are putting forth. what you are saying.

'oh but we cant understand these' -> this thought is a limitation. 'mind cannot comprehend these' -> this thought is also a limitation, moreover, its belittlement. all thoughts and ideas have time/space, astral counterparts. that is why will, intent are very important facets of existence, and fundamental of every kind of work, and this subject and its effects come up every now and then in Ra books during their studies and efforts.

that is no different for any other kind of thought. if you hold a thought that states you are limited, you limit yourself. if you hold a though that lessens the importance of anything, you belittle it. if you accept any limitation, you justify and strengthen that limitation. its no different than a small spiritual contract.

Perhaps I am, but I do not weigh seeking as a priority. I did, like you, but came to know what I needed to know, which is what I convey to you.

again, you are thinking that you know what level another entity functions, what is his/her seeking, what s/he has been given or have given, by your feelings. and, you are mistaken. this is a very good reason to note the importance of the mind and its uses.

The mind/body/spirit is a complex? I'm sorry brother, but you are mistaken. The mind/body/spirit is a mind/body/spirit. The "complex" is the veil, that which you say is of minor consequence. The complex provides the illusion of separateness so that free will can be used without an understanding of the unity of all of creation.

im not mistaken, for this is not something im saying. this is what Ra says, in regard to entities gaining free will. it was declared that mind/body/spirits were now a complex, and thus, mind/body/spirits come into being as entities with their own will. before that, they were mind/body/spirits. that's what they said.

being complex is not something that is related to veil, or separation or any other thing.

I'm not sure why, but you seem to think that knowledge is the path to greater things, when that is not truth. There are many here on earth at this time that have limited intellectual being, and yet still learn their lessons and have a higher vibration than many possessing great intelligence. The ability of the ape mind intelligence is only the measure of a fraction of an inch on a yard stick, and nothing more.

first, you are still confusing the 'intellectual' facet of this societal mind, its biases and conditionings with what we call mind. you also confuse knowledge with mind. knowledge, which is an experience of significator.

second, your own argument contradicts itself. if, mind was something that was needed to be pushed aside, those gorillas would be as well able to manifest high density 'wisdom' and vibrations as any developed entity. yet, even to engage in 3density work, a more advanced body with more advanced channel for mind (brain and neural system) is needed.

again, before you mistake it - this is not something i am saying. this passes repeated times in Ra, while talking about the transfer of maldek souls to earth, and it is the very reason they chose to incarnate in bodies that had lesser capabilities in that regard to pay for their karma. had, mind not been an important facet of existence, there would be no difference in incarnating these higher ape bodies and the early 3d bodies.

....................

let me put it in a blunt way ;

how do you know killing someone is wrong. (or is it right sometimes ?) how do you know that you exist ? how do you know what love is ? how do you know that you are an entity ? how do you know that you have a chakra ? what is a chakra anyway ? what is energy ? how do you know that there exists something called the Law of One ? how is everything one anyway ? can you manifest it ? what does love mean ? why are you accepting something else with all its faults, if everything is already one ? why is there such a need to do if everything is one ? isnt everything accepted by everything already ? what is 4d anyway ? how do you know understanding is the work of 4d ? (albeit with error) what is understanding anyway ?

[Peregrinus]

Though you use the Law of One as a reference, I believe you use it in a very distorted way. In this is for me a lesson in accepting you for who and what you are, and loving you for it. Likewise, I will not argue or be brought into a fight, for I see often what you say does goad.

Blunt responses (in a loving way)
how do you know killing someone is wrong. (or is it right sometimes ?) There is no right or wrong, only the perception of such.
how do you know that you exist ? I AM a thought; I AM the Creator; not an entity among entities, in this illusion.
how do you know what love is ? I am a wanderer from the sixth density and have penetrated the veil. Though understanding is not permanent whilst behind the veil, it can be breached for moments here and there. Remembrance continues, if not the exquisite feeling.
how do you know that you are an entity ? I am not an entity. I AM my own thought perceiving I am an entity.
how do you know that you have a chakra ? The construct of this illusion contains "chakras", part of the thought process. I have access to and can use these points to channel thought.
what is a chakra anyway ? a point of energy in the thought.
what is energy ? .. is that which is part of myself, the Creator.
how do you know that there exists something called the Law of One ? Ra's words are my words.
how is everything one anyway ? I AM.
can you manifest it ? I already did. Are you not aware?
what does love mean ? Love is a vibratory sound complex which over-simplifies the other part of myself, the Creator.
why are you accepting something else with all its faults, if everything is already one ? This is how I gain experience in understanding myself.
why is there such a need to do if everything is one ? This is how I gain experience and understanding of the self.
isnt everything accepted by everything already ? In truth yes, but in perception, no.
what is 4d anyway ? A level of progression whereby each thought progresses back into itself, in this specific case you speak of, in understanding that it, in itself, is not separate, but part of me.
how do you know understanding is the work of 4d ? (albeit with error) what is understanding anyway ? Understanding is the full realization that all is one. All is unity. All is the self. All is. I AM.

Though you seem to find many things I say to be paradoxical or contradictory, that is your perception. For me, all paradoxes have been resolved.

[unity100]

let me put it bluntly then;

knowing the answer to all the questions above, requires existence, capability and aptness of the mind.

without mind, you will not exist as a separate entity. your spirit will not have an individuality. you will be part of the 'creator'.

moreover, the body is a product of mind, as Ra notes. spirit channels through mind to any physical existence to the body, and manifests.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#2

30.2 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define mind, body, and spirit separately?

Ra: I am Ra. These terms are all simplistic descriptive terms which equal a complex of energy focuses; the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The mind is a complex which reflects the in-pourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total being-ness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the in-pourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.

notice, how it is explained in the middle block, that spirit channels the various universal, planetary and personal inpourings to the roots of consciousness. and how the consciousness can be funneled to gateway (7d) through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

not spirit. not body. not 'love'. balanced body and mind.

[Peregrinus]

Much better. Using specific quotes I can sink my teeth into. You have also provided the incentive for me to re-read the Law of One.

This does not, however, alleviate or suggest human understanding as to why a spirit would incarnate in a perceived mentally inferior mind/body/spirit. Having a much lesser IQ would appear to serve no purpose if intellect was the predominant requirement for evolution of the spirit via participation in this density. Your thoughts?

If I may suggest to moderators that at this point in time this subject be moved to it's own thread, as it does not fall in line with the title or purpose of this thread. Perhaps Unity100 may suggest a title.

[unity100]

Much better. Using specific quotes I can sink my teeth into. You have also provided the incentive for me to re-read the Law of One.

i am assuming that people who are debating such concepts from Ra material, Law of One, whatever you call it, have studied them enough and remember enough when referred to certain concepts.

This does not, however, alleviate or suggest human understanding as to why a spirit would incarnate in a perceived mentally inferior mind/body/spirit. Having a much lesser IQ would appear to serve no purpose if intellect was the predominant requirement for evolution of the spirit via participation in this density. Your thoughts?

firstly, iq is an irrelevant concept. it is a measurement of the various faculties of mind, which are perceived as more important than others by our societal complex. moreover, its definitions and use are also limited to whatever limitations and conditionings societal mind has. basically, if you take society as an individual, iq would measure the performance of that individuals mind as per the conditionings and biases that individual has.

secondly, the question you pose will be in full form if we take 3d body as a lesser body. and i think thats what you were meaning to say.

but, in that case, we should remember the atlanteans and what they did with the information they were given. in 2nd cycle of 3d of this planet, they were not only able to contact intelligent infinity using pyramids and crystals and their mind/body/spirit complexes, therefore their bodies and their minds while in 3d, but also went as far to be able to create life forms 'to serve them'.

this basically shows, limitations, are not quite 'limitations' as one may think. the difference is probably in the ease in how you do things. that work would probably be much easier in a 4d body. but, it was still performed in 3d with 3d bodies.

and for the crux of the question, there can be innumerable reasons, why would an entity would feel the need to incarnate in a less 'easy' or 'heavy' body.

If I may suggest to moderators that at this point in time this subject be moved to it's own thread, as it does not fall in line with the title or purpose of this thread. Perhaps Unity100 may suggest a title.

i have no idea. it evolved as a branch.

[Monica]

Blunt responses (in a loving way)
how do you know killing someone is wrong. (or is it right sometimes ?) There is no right or wrong, only the perception of such.

Respectfully, this is a thought that you had about a concept. As are all the others. We know we are part of the Creator, we know we are Wanderers...or do we? Do we know, or do we think we know? Do we experience these things, or do we believe something about these things?

I don't want to speak for unity100, but my interpretation of his questions is that they are just examples of questions to which we can provide answers, that came from mind. Thus, illustrating how integral mind is to our existence.

As a tangent (since this was used only as an example to illustrate a greater point), I disagree that there is no right and wrong. From the Creator's perspective, yes, that is true. But from our perspective, I think 'right and wrong' are relative. To someone aspiring to polarize STO, it might be considered 'wrong' or, at the very least, a mistake, to intentionally harm someone. Ultimately, all is catalyst.

I do understand your point, but, imo, the idea of 'there is no right or wrong' seems to imply that 'anything goes.' Yet, even Q'uo acknowledges discernment and boundaries. Q'uo has stated (paraphrased), "The STS path is a bloody path. We are not of that path. We are of the radiant path." which indicates to me that it's ok to make a judgement about what we choose or decline...For me personally, I would consider it 'wrong' to do xyz because that wouldn't be in alignment with my chosen path. Does that mean I won't ever do xyz? Not necessarily. But if I feel a twinge of conscience afterwards, to me that is a clue that it was, for me, a mistake and something to be learned from, forgiven, and healed.

how do you know that you exist ? I AM a thought; I AM the Creator; not an entity among entities, in this illusion.

We know this intellectually, and maybe even experientially during our meditations, and maybe even identify with the Creator in our daily lives to some degree, but who among us is without distortion? If there were no identity of entity among entities, how is it that we are discussing, disagreeing, and have have individual names?

isnt everything accepted by everything already ? In truth yes, but in perception, no.

Exactly. So if ALL is ONE, then even the perception of separation is part of the One, right?

[unity100]

I don't want to speak for unity100, but my interpretation of his questions is that they are just examples of questions to which we can provide answers, that came from mind. Thus, illustrating how integral mind is to our existence.

moreover, since all the feelings, thoughts, ideas are contained and experienced by mind, without mind, there cant be love. for it is a manifestation of a particular energy in the white spectrum.

As a tangent (since this was used only as an example to illustrate a greater point), I disagree that there is no right and wrong. From the Creator's perspective, yes, that is true. But from our perspective, I think 'right and wrong' are relative. To someone aspiring to polarize STO, it might be considered 'wrong' or, at the very least, a mistake, to intentionally harm someone. Ultimately, all is catalyst.

precisely !

how do you know that you exist ? I AM a thought; I AM the Creator; not an entity among entities, in this illusion.

i missed that. its because i didnt read answers to those questions, all those questions were meant as rhetorical questions ALL of them requiring the existence of the mind to even be questions - because to exist as multiple entities in order to effect even the existence of the concepts asked in those questions (leave aside the question's answers or mechanisms) existence of mind is required. leave aside knowing the answers, the concepts that are contained about in those questions wont even exist without mind. the physical creation is a product of mind. that also goes as far to say that any kind of multiple existences (existence of multiple entities, any kind of, includes time/space counterparts of photons to any spiritual entity) that can be found in time/space. mind, is apparently what gives a structure to existence, therefore a possibility to manifest. (that seems to be more a business of the book 4 discussion tho). without manifestation, there is only infinite intelligence, flowing around. not love, not self, not others, no service to others, no service to self, (a non polarity by the way), nothing.

and to that 'i am the creator' bit, i would respond, you are not the creator. if you have been the creator, you wouldnt be talking with us, for you would already have started your journey towards infinite, you would have left behind any kind of identity, and you would be in 8th d of this octave, and therefore first in the next octave. you wouldnt have any business here. you wouldnt have any fascination with love, the green ray of white spectrum, you wouldnt be any qualms with mind either.

then, you are in an illusion, and the illusion is real. until you overgrow the illusion, the illusion is going to be real for you, inversely proportional to your advancedness.

and a sidenote, there is no 'single' entity - there is a union of infinite numbers of entities. and, because infinite numbers of entities would require an infinite time to totally harmonize to what can be called a totally uniform single entity (ie infinity), that entity will never be totally harmonized, and singular. it will always exist in a state of multi facetedness.

therefore, 'all is one' concept is a bit misleading. 'all is united, all is in unison' would be more appropriate. for, the ensuing union is a union of infinite numbers of infinite entities. that is also the reason why the existence is infinite, and innumerable aspects of that 'self' is discovered in every octave, and 'the creator knows itself more'.

to an entity looking to that union from outside (as if it was possible, but imagine it is), the harmonization may look at so a high level that it the union could resemble a singular entity. yet, because it is comprised of infinite entities that have also infinite potential in themselves (notice how each entity creates unique refractions of intelligent energy, aka creator, when they are manifesting as entities), there are also infinite facets, aspects, entities in that union.

in the end, all will be infinitely equal parts of an infinite union of entities.

there is no 'creator' or 'i', but, there is only us.

'we' are.

---

edit : updated with a few bits

[Peregrinus]

how do you know killing someone is wrong. (or is it right sometimes ?) There is no right or wrong, only the perception of such.

Respectfully, this is a thought that you had about a concept. As are all the others. We know we are part of the Creator, we know we are Wanderers...or do we? Do we know, or do we think we know? Do we experience these things, or do we believe something about these things?

I understand that there might be a shadow of a doubt for many that wish to make that great leap of faith, but for me there is none. I do not suggest or believe; I know, absolutely and infinitely. I was at the original thought (as all of I were - though this remembrance is veiled for most). I have travelled above this octave. I know what I AM, though in this illusion I enjoy the process of experience and being able to serve. I am thankful for it in each moment. Granted, there has been a process to come to the point at which I am now at, but I am nonetheless here now. Do I still have ape mind thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Definitely, but I use them as the catalyst they are, working with them in my balancing process.

As a tangent (since this was used only as an example to illustrate a greater point), I disagree that there is no right and wrong. From the Creator's perspective, yes, that is true. But from our perspective, I think 'right and wrong' are relative. To someone aspiring to polarize STO, it might be considered 'wrong' or, at the very least, a mistake, to intentionally harm someone. Ultimately, all is catalyst.

From the human sto perspective, you are absolutely correct. I was speaking from the I AM perspective where judgment has become less of a process for me. All is perfect.

I do understand your point, but, imo, the idea of 'there is no right or wrong' seems to imply that 'anything goes.' Yet, even Q'uo acknowledges discernment and boundaries. Q'uo has stated (paraphrased), "The STS path is a bloody path. We are not of that path. We are of the radiant path." which indicates to me that it's ok to make a judgment about what we choose or decline...For me personally, I would consider it 'wrong' to do xyz because that wouldn't be in alignment with my chosen path. Does that mean I won't ever do xyz? Not necessarily. But if I feel a twinge of conscience afterwards, to me that is a clue that it was, for me, a mistake and something to be learned from, forgiven, and healed.

Yes, one's chosen path will determine what the perspective of right and wrong is, but what may appear to be correct to the one path will most likely appear wrong to the other.

To this I was speaking from the higher perspective. The infinite possibilities of both positive and negative are that which are to be explored, which is why the polarities exist. In order for a full exploration, there may be no limitation. Anything does go, and you may ask those of Mars, Maldek, and of Atlantis if that is untrue (when you exit the illusion or source the answer). This is by no means necessary; it is by choice which we are here.

how do you know that you exist ? I AM a thought; I AM the Creator; not an entity among entities, in this illusion.

We know this intellectually, and maybe even experientially during our meditations, and maybe even identify with the Creator in our daily lives to some degree, but who among us is without distortion? If there were no identity of entity among entities, how is it that we are discussing, disagreeing, and have have individual names?

All is perception. Our names here in this illusion are not the names we go by as an individual spirit, those names which we use for many millions of years, and yet even those names are part of the distortion of perception of individuality designed to come to an understanding of the self, the Creator.

isnt everything accepted by everything already ? In truth yes, but in perception, no.

Exactly. So if ALL is ONE, then even the perception of separation is part of the One, right?

Correct dear sister. All that exists is of the Creator. To be more exact; all that exists is the thought of the Creator.

---

how do you know that you exist ? I AM a thought; I AM the Creator; not an entity among entities, in this illusion.

i missed that. its because i didnt read answers to those questions, all those questions were meant as rhetorical questions ALL of them requiring the existence of the mind to even be questions - because to exist as multiple entities in order to effect even the existence of the concepts asked in those questions (leave aside the question's answers or mechanisms) existence of mind is required. leave aside knowing the answers, the concepts that are contained about in those questions wont even exist without mind. the physical creation is a product of mind. that also goes as far to say that any kind of multiple existences (existence of multiple entities, any kind of, includes time/space counterparts of photons to any spiritual entity) that can be found in time/space. mind, is apparently what gives a structure to existence, therefore a possibility to manifest. (that seems to be more a business of the book 4 discussion tho). without manifestation, there is only infinite intelligence, flowing around. not love, not self, not others, no service to others, no service to self, (a non polarity by the way), nothing.

So then, since you believe the mind is a required part of existence, how is it that one moves from the physical body into the energy body without a loss of consciousness. The energy body has no mind for it is of the spirit. I have seen the One Creator by itself, unaware, when it became aware and had the one thought; all of creation was then born. The Creator had no "mind" as you such suggest. Thought is a process unto the self, and this physical body and mind which you think you are, is a part of a thought, an illusion.

Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

I have not only grasped this concept, but have come to accept and know it as truth.

and to that 'i am the creator' bit, i would respond, you are not the creator. if you have been the creator, you wouldnt be talking with us, for you would already have started your journey towards infinite, you would have left behind any kind of identity, and you would be in 8th d of this octave, and therefore first in the next octave. you wouldnt have any business here. you wouldnt have any fascination with love, the green ray of white spectrum, you wouldnt be any qualms with mind either.

then, you are in an illusion, and the illusion is real. until you overgrow the illusion, the illusion is going to be real for you, inversely proportional to your advancedness.

...unless my intention is to serve, in which case setting limits for myself both consciously and unconsciously would keep me from advancing beyond a certain point. I am thankful for this opportunity to serve... and leaving earlier than by my own design is not possible.

and a sidenote, there is no 'single' entity - there is a union of infinite numbers of entities. and, because infinite numbers of entities would require an infinite time to totally harmonize to what can be called a totally uniform single entity (ie infinity), that entity will never be totally harmonized, and singular. it will always exist in a state of multi facetedness.

therefore, 'all is one' concept is a bit misleading. 'all is united, all is in unison' would be more appropriate. for, the ensuing union is a union of infinite numbers of infinite entities. that is also the reason why the existence is infinite, and innumerable aspects of that 'self' is discovered in every octave, and 'the creator knows itself more'.

to an entity looking to that union from outside (as if it was possible, but imagine it is), the harmonization may look at so a high level that it the union could resemble a singular entity. yet, because it is comprised of infinite entities that have also infinite potential in themselves (notice how each entity creates unique refractions of intelligent energy, aka creator, when they are manifesting as entities), there are also infinite facets, aspects, entities in that union.

in the end, all will be infinitely equal parts of an infinite union of entities.

there is no 'creator' or 'i', but, there is only us.

'we' are.

Ah, the beauty of the illusion and the veil. There is only One. Enjoy the scenery brother

Ra: Firstly, you must understand that the distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between the consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality.

Ra: In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

[unity100]

I understand that there might be a shadow of a doubt for many that wish to make that great leap of faith, but for me there is none. I do not suggest or believe; I know, absolutely and infinitely. I was at the original thought (as all of I were - though this remembrance is veiled for most). I have travelled above this octave. I know what I AM, though in this illusion I enjoy the process of experience and being able to serve. I am thankful for it in each moment. Granted, there has been a process to come to the point at which I am now at, but I am nonetheless here now. Do I still have ape mind thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Definitely, but I use them as the catalyst they are, working with them in my balancing process.

firstly, you should list the details of your experience so we can have a leg to stand on in analyzing and understanding it. especially the bits related to having 'traveled above this octave'.

secondly, you may have had a channel opened to a certain point in existence, accompanied with its understanding and feeling, but, you arent still at that point. you are here, on earth.

that would make the situation 'i was', 'i experienced', this and that, all being in past tense.

All is perception. Our names here in this illusion are not the names we go by as an individual spirit, those names which we use for many millions of years, and yet even those names are part of the distortion of perception of individuality designed to come to an understanding of the self, the Creator.

all is illusion, and that illusion is real, until you become infinity. that means, you are not infinity, while you are still in your current form, in this illusion. naming illusion as an illusion wont change anything. you are still in it.

So then, since you believe the mind is a required part of existence, how is it that one moves from the physical body into the energy body without a loss of consciousness. The energy body has no mind for it is of the spirit. I have seen the One Creator by itself, unaware, when it became aware and had the one thought; all of creation was then born.

refer to Ra regarding bodies. when an entity dies, the first body to activate is indigo body, the form maker body, immediately after death. all bodies exist in potentiation. and when a physical body dies, the astral, etherical bodies keep the entity existing as an entity.

The Creator had no "mind" as you such suggest. Thought is a process unto the self, and this physical body and mind which you think you are, is a part of a thought, an illusion.

for thought to exist, there needs to be mind. 'thought is a process unto the self' is a statement that flies in air. it requires existence of thought first, and a process, and a self. all of which, require existence, in order to become possible.

'creator has no mind' is a statement that stands on no leg either - in endless spiritual text as well as Ra, it is stated that entities are created as replicas of the creator you speak of. and, they reach 7d mind/body/spirit complex totality in 7d, and after knowing themselves in entirety, they go back to infinity (or, the closest thing to it, infinite intelligence) by leaving all identity behind. looking behind ends.

You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

I have not only grasped this concept, but have come to accept and know it as truth.

let me put a perspective ; if you are a thought, then you are the thought in the mind of the creator you speak about.

...unless my intention is to serve, in which case setting limits for myself both consciously and unconsciously would keep me from advancing beyond a certain point. I am thankful for this opportunity to serve... and leaving earlier than by my own design is not possible.

what i said and your response are irrelevant. regardless of your intention, you are still part of the illusion you speak of. even having an intention to serve, says that you are in the illusion you speak of, an illusion yourself (with your own approach) and therefore, not 'the creator', or infinite.

Ah, the beauty of the illusion and the veil. There is only One. Enjoy the scenery brother

first, this again has no relevance to the block you replied to. second, what does that even mean ?

you are maintaining a desire to serve, which is not only an illusion but requires the presence of an illusion.

again, calling anything an illusion wont put you out of that illusion.

that illusion is real. until you grow over it.

Ra: Firstly, you must understand that the distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between the consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality.

Ra: In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

again, you are everything when seen from the vantage point of late 7d totality, yet, you are just another entity manifesting as a separate entity in a particular universe's timeline, nomatter how much you call that an illusion.

referring to a practical reality in a future vantage point in time, will not change the nature of existence in your current point in space/time and time/space.

[Peregrinus]

I understand that there might be a shadow of a doubt for many that wish to make that great leap of faith, but for me there is none. I do not suggest or believe; I know, absolutely and infinitely. I was at the original thought (as all of I were - though this remembrance is veiled for most). I have travelled above this octave. I know what I AM, though in this illusion I enjoy the process of experience and being able to serve. I am thankful for it in each moment. Granted, there has been a process to come to the point at which I am now at, but I am nonetheless here now. Do I still have ape mind thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Definitely, but I use them as the catalyst they are, working with them in my balancing process.

firstly, you should list the details of your experience so we can have a leg to stand on in analyzing and understanding it. especially the bits related to having 'traveled above this octave'.

Firstly, I need not "a leg to stand on" in your eyes. My truth is simply that; my truth. Can one explain how to be Buddha? Jehoshua? Krishna? I think not. Each must find their own path. Each must do their own work. The Ra Materials explain very well what is required.

Perhaps I may entice you to watch this video by Carl Sagan. In it he explains how one cannot perceive other dimensions/densities unless they have travelled them. I find this to be the case here; you cannot possibly understand what I cannot possibly explain to you. I remember Ra saying something to the effect about fourth density "We cannot explain to you what is; only what is not". That is also the case here, though whilst in this illusion I have the lesser faculty, without conscious use of the social memory complex, in formulating a description of what is not.

secondly, you may have had a channel opened to a certain point in existence, accompanied with its understanding and feeling, but, you arent still at that point. you are here, on earth.

As I re-read my above paragraph, I see no mention that I am above the illusion at this point in illusory time. In fact, I see the opposite. I explain how I am affected by the illusion the same as you are. I would think that to suffice to show my understanding that I am bathed in the illusion the same as you are. Was I unclear in that explanation?

that would make the situation 'i was', 'i experienced', this and that, all being in past tense.

Again, there is no time, only the illusory perception of it. One can no more hold onto the past as they can the future. Only the instant, the moment, is reality, for it is part of The Thought. I am (we are) therefore here and there in all places in all time, for there is only the here and the now, The Thought. All else is the illusion contained within The Thought.

all is illusion, and that illusion is real, until you become infinity. that means, you are not infinity, while you are still in your current form, in this illusion. naming illusion as an illusion wont change anything. you are still in it.

I am both the illusion and infinity, as you are, as each is. You are simply unable to accept being that which you are, ... yet.

The Creator had no "mind" as you such suggest. Thought is a process unto the self, and this physical body and mind which you think you are, is a part of a thought, an illusion.

for thought to exist, there needs to be mind. 'thought is a process unto the self' is a statement that flies in air. it requires existence of thought first, and a process, and a self. all of which, require existence, in order to become possible.

'creator has no mind' is a statement that stands on no leg either - in endless spiritual text as well as Ra, it is stated that entities are created as replicas of the creator you speak of. and, they reach 7d mind/body/spirit complex totality in 7d, and after knowing themselves in entirety, they go back to infinity (or, the closest thing to it, infinite intelligence) by leaving all identity behind. looking behind ends.

I was speaking of a physical mind, as a human might perceive it. As I have seen The Creator, it is a spirit complex totality. "In its image" would mean what? That we are in its image as a sun? As a planet? As a rock? As a human? All of these are part of the Creator and as such are in "its" image, but really, is there an image as we may perceive it?

Ra states clearly that only ~15% of Creation uses the bipedal ape body as the means for third density evolution. In that case, close to 85% uses other forms (images) for third density work. This then begs the question; is the bipedal ape in the image of the creator, or the bipedal grasshopper?

The closest I might describe The Creator is as a huge ball of love/light, somewhat like a sun, though very unlike a sun in that its points of love/light extend outward creating the illusion like the points of an amethyst extend outwardly. This is a poor description though, as to explain that which is in my minds eye is just that, truly unexplainable. It took me a long and confused initial day to come to terms with seeing The Creator having The Original Thought, and months to truly grasp the finer points. This is not easily explained.

You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

I have not only grasped this concept, but have come to accept and know it as truth.

let me put a perspective ; if you are a thought, then you are the thought in the mind of the creator you speak about.

This is accurate.

what i said and your response are irrelevant. regardless of your intention, you are still part of the illusion you speak of. even having an intention to serve, says that you are in the illusion you speak of, an illusion yourself (with your own approach) and therefore, not 'the creator', or infinite.

first, this again has no relevance to the block you replied to. second, what does that even mean ?

you are maintaining a desire to serve, which is not only an illusion but requires the presence of an illusion.

again, calling anything an illusion wont put you out of that illusion.

that illusion is real. until you grow over it.

Please re-read the forum rules and abide by them brother. Saying my words are irrelevant is against forum rule number 1. I shall not respond to these statements until/unless you reword/rewrite them in a continuing post in accordance with forum rules...

again, you are everything when seen from the vantage point of late 7d totality, yet, you are just another entity manifesting as a separate entity in a particular universe's timeline, nomatter how much you call that an illusion.

referring to a practical reality in a future vantage point in time, will not change the nature of existence in your current point in space/time and time/space.

It is not your place to know or understand what my place of spiritual evolution is, any more than it is my place to know or understand yours. All is perfect.

[Turtle]

Perspective is everything.

[unity100]

Firstly, I need not "a leg to stand on" in your eyes. My truth is simply that; my truth. Can one explain how to be Buddha? Jehoshua? Krishna? I think not. Each must find their own path. Each must do their own work. The Ra Materials explain very well what is required.

Perhaps I may entice you to watch this video by Carl Sagan. In it he explains how one cannot perceive other dimensions/densities unless they have travelled them. I find this to be the case here; you cannot possibly understand what I cannot possibly explain to you. I remember Ra saying something to the effect about fourth density "We cannot explain to you what is; only what is not". That is also the case here, though whilst in this illusion I have the lesser faculty, without conscious use of the social memory complex, in formulating a description of what is not.

ra describes various densities, experiences without any issues, to the best of the words existing on this planet.

moreover, buddha, Jehoshua, and all the other spiritual seekers who have come and passed from the face of this planet attempted to present what they have and what they had to offer to the furthest extent possible. there are innumerable monasteries in india and tibet over buddha's teachings for example.

similarly, if you have experienced something, you also can describe them to the best of your and language's ability. yet, you are choosing not to do that, and leaving it 'mystic'.

your standing is your standing and belongs to you. however, you are not presenting your standing as something like that - you are presenting it as an argument to state the wrongness of others' approach, and the correctness of yours. the progression so far basically moved as; "oh brother, had you known what i known, you would understand. i have been there, i know what you think, and you will know soon too" - basically stating that our approach was faulty and wrong. had this not been presented as an argument, it would not be anyone's business to question it and ask for details. yet, because you have put it as an argument to state the wrongness of certain approaches, going to the extent of 'i have wandered above this octave', the people who you are discussing anything with naturally ask you to define your argument.

yet when questioned as to the nature of your experience that makes you say this, you say that you dont need to explain to have a leg to stand on in our view.

at this point we have 4 choices we can make :

1 - accept that 'you have been there and know it', we dont, hence you are right, we are wrong without asking for any details
2 - question you as to the details
3 - if you dont give details make our own assumptions
4 - not discuss with you at all

As I re-read my above paragraph, I see no mention that I am above the illusion at this point in illusory time. In fact, I see the opposite. I explain how I am affected by the illusion the same as you are. I would think that to suffice to show my understanding that I am bathed in the illusion the same as you are. Was I unclear in that explanation?

your various statements and approaches have been saying otherwise. i am the creator, all of these is an illusion, choice is an illusion, and so on.

Again, there is no time, only the illusory perception of it. One can no more hold onto the past as they can the future. Only the instant, the moment, is reality, for it is part of The Thought. I am (we are) therefore here and there in all places in all time, for there is only the here and the now, The Thought. All else is the illusion contained within The Thought.

here. answer to your question in the above block.

illusory perception of illusory time within a reality that is created by illusion, means that, within the bounds of that illusion, that illusion and all its perceptions, are real.

I am both the illusion and infinity, as you are, as each is. You are simply unable to accept being that which you are, ... yet.

again, another statement of the same sort, putting your current self above the illusion. you arent both the illusion and infinity. you are illusion. the infinity, is in a future vantage point. thats what im talking about.

I was speaking of a physical mind, as a human might perceive it.

there is no physical mind. there is only mind, in divisions. racial, societal, individual, cosmic and so on. all, are mind. this is what we learn from Ra. brain is the mind's tool that projects the mind's thoughts into any given reality.

perhaps you are meaning to say the societal mind, or its subdivisions, or, a mind which acts in lockstep with the societal mind or subdivisions of it. they are still mind, albeit limited through various conditionings.

As I have seen The Creator, it is a spirit complex totality. "In its image" would mean what? That we are in its image as a sun? As a planet? As a rock? As a human? All of these are part of the Creator and as such are in "its" image, but really, is there an image as we may perceive it?

now we are coming to the crux of the matter. if, the creator you saw is a spirit complex totality, then it is not the creator you speak about - a spirit complex totality is a spirit complex totality of any given segment. your own, your societal complex (whichever you belong to), or the galaxy your societal complex belongs to, or any grouping that your galaxy belongs to, or any other grouping in the universe, or the universe, or groupings of universes as they go higher and higher.

i do not know whether you have seen your (or any other grouping's) totality - you havent described the details, however, if you have seen, it is not the creator you speak of - as a finite entity that is still manifesting as a finite entity, it is impossible for you to see, experience, or become one with over any certain portion of the totality, because your mind/body/spirit complex wouldnt be able to handle it. to handle and observe an infinite concept, you need to be infinite yourself. since you havent returned to infinity, and still here with us as an individual entity, you havent been infinity, so, that means, you havent observed infinity. in conjunction with this, it means you have observed only a certain part of a certain totality (if you have), and you have felt certain feelings and experiences during it. feeling a feeling of oneness, peace, tranquility, joy is related to receiving or vibrating in those energies in any given energy center for a given amount of time, and its not related to knowing. they basically signify the feeling associated with a given ray.

even these details aside, you are speaking of having seen a spirit complex totality. which is something that occurs with mind/body/spirit complex of an entity becoming whole, total. it still has body in it, it still has mind in it, even in the meaning of 7d body. having a body, would mean that something is still part of an illusion, as you speak of.

the creator you speak of would be above 7d.

Ra states clearly that only ~15% of Creation uses the bipedal ape body as the means for third density evolution. In that case, close to 85% uses other forms (images) for third density work. This then begs the question; is the bipedal ape in the image of the creator, or the bipedal grasshopper?

if you are understanding 'being in the image' of, as bipedal body or a jellyfish body, then you are not understanding the concept.

7 energy centers with 7th being the totality of all the lower 6, and 8th being the 1st of the next octave, and functioning and radiating and creating with the usage of mind as an entity, would better describe this image. it is the same in ALL living creatures, entities, including single cell organisms.

The closest I might describe The Creator is as a huge ball of love/light, somewhat like a sun, though very unlike a sun in that its points of love/light extend outward creating the illusion like the points of an amethyst extend outwardly. This is a poor description though, as to explain that which is in my minds eye is just that, truly unexplainable. It took me a long and confused initial day to come to terms with seeing The Creator having The Original Thought, and months to truly grasp the finer points. This is not easily explained.

well, if you have seen a huge ball of love/light, somewhat like a sun, especially if it had a white light with a golden tint, nature, that would describe a 6th density entity, as Ra tells us. not a spirit complex totality.

this also coincides with the nature and feelings of the experience you speak of also. and it explains various other things.

Please re-read the forum rules and abide by them brother. Saying my words are irrelevant is against forum rule number 1. I shall not respond to these statements until/unless you reword/rewrite them in a continuing post in accordance with forum rules...

your response, was irrelevant to my question. it still is irrelevant to my question, and this has nothing to do with manners, forum rules, or any other thing.

It is not your place to know or understand what my place of spiritual evolution is, any more than it is my place to know or understand yours. All is perfect.

it may not be my place to know or understand your place of spiritual evolution. and, i havent done that.

yet, you have done that precisely, saying that 'i have been there, i have done that, and you will learn later, you will see later' and so on.

as of this very moment, you see, im still not predicting your spiritual evolutionary level. i have asked you to describe your experience that you have put forth as an argument to wrongnes off my and one other participant's approach, yet, you have chose not to define it.

[Monica]

illusory perception of illusory time within a reality that is created by illusion, means that, within the bounds of that illusion, that illusion and all its perceptions, are real.

Well said! Proof of this: Do any of us dare to jump off a skyscraper without going splat?

Teenagers on acid tried just that. They saw beyond the illusion and thought they could fly. Even while having their perception of the illusion pierced, while still in a physical body, the illusion proved to be real.

On the other hand, we've all heard reports of master (such as the Taoist sages, Jesus, etc.) who seemingly broke the rules of the illusion, by reconnecting severed limbs, performing psychic surgery, walking on water, etc. Which leads me to conclude that, if done naturally rather than artificially as in with synthetic hallucinagens, the veil may indeed be pierced both physically as well as mentally.

---

if, the creator you saw is a spirit complex totality, then it is not the creator you speak about - a spirit complex totality is a spirit complex totality of any given segment. your own, your societal complex (whichever you belong to), or the galaxy your societal complex belongs to, or any grouping that your galaxy belongs to, or any other grouping in the universe, or the universe, or groupings of universes as they go higher and higher.

How could we possibly know that what we are perceiving in our deepest meditations is actually the Creator of some subset thereof? Would not our own Higher Self seem as 'God' to us?

i do not know whether you have seen your (or any other grouping's) totality - you havent described the details, however, if you have seen, it is not the creator you speak of - as a finite entity that is still manifesting as a finite entity, it is impossible for you to see, experience, or become one with over any certain portion of the totality, because your mind/body/spirit complex wouldnt be able to handle it.

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

ie. but a distortion of it.

to handle and observe an infinite concept, you need to be infinite yourself. since you havent returned to infinity, and still here with us as an individual entity, you havent been infinity, so, that means, you havent observed infinity. in conjunction with this, it means you have observed only a certain part of a certain totality (if you have), and you have felt certain feelings and experiences during it. feeling a feeling of oneness, peace, tranquility, joy is related to receiving or vibrating in those energies in any given energy center for a given amount of time, and its not related to knowing. they basically signify the feeling associated with a given ray.

even these details aside, you are speaking of having seen a spirit complex totality. which is something that occurs with mind/body/spirit complex of an entity becoming whole, total. it still has body in it, it still has mind in it, even in the meaning of 7d body. having a body, would mean that something is still part of an illusion, as you speak of.

the creator you speak of would be above 7d.

16.19 Questioner: Can you give me some kind of history of your social memory complex and how you became aware of the Law of One?
Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

it is the same in ALL living creatures, entities, including single cell organisms.

I'm not sure I agree that single cell organisims have all the rays activated...or maybe they are present but lying dormant? Although, it makes sense that they would be, since they are microcosms of us, right?

I agree that the shape of the physical body is essentially irrelevant to the question. Dolphins' bodies are shaped totally differently, and look like 2D fish, yet they are our elders.

your response, was irrelevant to my question. it still is irrelevant to my question, and this has nothing to do with manners, forum rules, or any other thing.

In all fairness, I perceived unity's use of the term irrelevant as similar to my own use of the term in the previous paragraph of this post, and not as anything personal. We are all relevant here. Some of our words might not be, in the context of another member's perception of the conversation. I just had blueberry pancakes. That is totally irrelevant! To everyone but me, most likely, because I see the Creator in each little blueberry! And that blueberry probably thinks (to the degree it is able to think) that I am the Creator.

I'm being silly here. Just kidding! (well, sort of)

[unity100]

On the other hand, we've all heard reports of master (such as the Taoist sages, Jesus, etc.) who seemingly broke the rules of the illusion, by reconnecting severed limbs, performing psychic surgery, walking on water, etc. Which leads me to conclude that, if done naturally rather than artificially as in with synthetic hallucinagens, the veil may indeed be pierced both physically as well as mentally.

yea, however these would still be temporal modifications of illusion, or rather, any local reality. in the end, the taoist sage, jesus, still stays and dies by the rules of this local reality.

How could we possibly know that what we are perceiving in our deepest meditations is actually the Creator of some subset thereof? Would not our own Higher Self seem as 'God' to us?

from various experiences shared in the spiritual literature and in person, it seems that higher self may indeed act as the creator on occasion. or, at least, doesnt interfere with the perception of the entity. the problem arises when symbolism or visions are used. its rather impossible to assess these. but i think, in direct manifestations/contacts it is possible to get a glimpse of the nature of the experience by referencing reliable material.

for example, meeting with a sun-like, shining entity which radiates a white light that exhibits golden qualities, we can conclude that the encounter is possibly with an entity that is from 6th density. because, these are the qualities with which Ra described themselves, and 6th density in general. (they also noted that the environment of 6th density being white, with white having a golden quality, if i remember right). especially if the encounter also carries an emphasis on feeling of unity, unison, oneness, creation, creating. as these are general properties of the feeling of 6th ray.

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

ie. but a distortion of it.

well, actually contacting any part of the spirit complex totality, would be an important encounter to work carefully on. however yes, it is impossible to encompass any noticeable portion of infinity as a finite entity. therefore, what we can encompass should be only as much as our current finiteness can handle as load.

still important, but, not infinity.

16.19 Questioner: Can you give me some kind of history of your social memory complex and how you became aware of the Law of One?
Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

yes i remember Ra representing the concept of infinity as a circle, or singularity. however, even these concepts are finite in themselves. a circle would return to point zero after traversing entire length, and it would still be where it started. but, it doesnt happen that way - next octave is a different creation loaded with different properties.therefore, the circle example does not hold to encompass infinity.

I'm not sure I agree that single cell organisims have all the rays activated...or maybe they are present but lying dormant? Although, it makes sense that they would be, since they are microcosms of us, right?

they are not in activation, but they are present there in potentiation, ra said. the example is, all the entities share the common blueprint of energy centers.

[Peregrinus]

I do apologize brother if I appeared to be condescending. It is my sincere wish that that distortion is not conveyed in this or further messages.

You are indeed correct on a number of points, and I understand you becoming upset with me. I have been addressing this conversation from a dispassionate and more intellectual perspective so as to make sense to you, though that has not worked because your rationalization skills and experiences in this illusion are different than mine. I will try to approach this from a different angle.

ra describes various densities, experiences without any issues, to the best of the words existing on this planet.

I do not remember such exactness in Ra's words; I remember generalities which gave a glimpse, but nothing concrete. Can you perhaps provide for me a couple examples of what you say Ra said about fourth density? something specific which will further increase my immediate awareness of such?

moreover, buddha, Jehoshua, and all the other spiritual seekers who have come and passed from the face of this planet attempted to present what they have and what they had to offer to the furthest extent possible. there are innumerable monasteries in india and tibet over buddha's teachings for example.

This is a beautiful concept, and one that I believe was capable of being manifested in the past. The present is less conducive to such, for there has been so much negative distortion to make such possible and acceptable. I have many people nowadays personally desiring for me to impart to them how I am able to remain in a state of what appears to them to be permanent bliss, yet I find that I think they would prefer a pill or medicine to knowing. Few do though water the seed of thought I place at their feet.

similarly, if you have experienced something, you also can describe them to the best of your and language's ability. yet, you are choosing not to do that, and leaving it 'mystic'.

You are correct that I may describe such, though as per your understanding of my description of my view of the One Creator, at its very core of being... has already proven this theory as being difficult to do, for you misunderstood and added context to what I said. The minute details and understanding which I garnered from the experience are such that I find them extremely difficult to explain accurately, and unless you experience the same, I can not begin to see how you would or could understand. I am not slighting you; I just don't see how you can fathom something that I think seems to you to be illusion, and that you clearly do not hold faith in, when to me this knowledge, understanding, and faith is absolutely real and unshakable.

I would suggest that today's world is so much different than the world of two hundred and beyond years ago. Although knowledge was not so available as it is now, the state of consciousness of many was at a higher level than it is today. Today it is all over the board, as it were, and the vast majority of mbsc reside in the lower extremes.

Logic can only take the third density seeker so far, at which point the consciousness must be moved from the mind to the heart in order to continue advancement. Yes, logic will take the seeker to that point faster, but logic/knowledge is not a required part of this third density existence, being that this is a density designed to make the choice.

When I spoke previously of those that choose to incarnate with what would be considered additional challenges, I was speaking about those that are in third density vehicles that are, as is said, "mentally challenged". These people may have a high level of consciousness irregardless of what "intelligent people" might see the mentally challenged persons state of mind. The same goes for infants. Although knowing little, having forgotten everything due to the veil, their state of consciousness is such that they reside at a state slightly below enlightenment. Knowledge and experience in this modern world, for the most part do nothing but reduce that.

your standing is your standing and belongs to you. however, you are not presenting your standing as something like that - you are presenting it as an argument to state the wrongness of others' approach, and the correctness of yours. the progression so far basically moved as; "oh brother, had you known what i known, you would understand. i have been there, i know what you think, and you will know soon too" - basically stating that our approach was faulty and wrong. had this not been presented as an argument, it would not be anyone's business to question it and ask for details. yet, because you have put it as an argument to state the wrongness of certain approaches, going to the extent of 'i have wandered above this octave', the people who you are discussing anything with naturally ask you to define your argument.

yet when questioned as to the nature of your experience that makes you say this, you say that you dont need to explain to have a leg to stand on in our view.

at this point we have 4 choices we can make :

1 - accept that 'you have been there and know it', we dont, hence you are right, we are wrong without asking for any details
2 - question you as to the details
3 - if you dont give details make our own assumptions
4 - not discuss with you at all

So, if I were to explain as such:

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Since this is has been the accepted understanding of creation for two thousand years, is it acceptable as truth? Does it explain The One Creator having its Original Thought better than I did? What I saw I have come to understand to be the same thing, though this description was designed to allow people to understand, in a simple way, that which is complex. I could go into complexities, though they would no do justice to what I have seen, and one most likely would still not understand/believe because they need to experience it them self in order to. Again, this is not a slight; how can one explain what chocolate cake tastes like to those that have never tasted it?

Take a UFO sighting for example. I, with several others, had a UFO encounter before I was ten years of age. When telling others about it, they refuted it, telling the lot of us that had seen the UFO that we had seen a plane, or a helo, or a weather balloon, etc etc. I stopped telling people, but I know what I had seen, a really large round shiny metallic disk, with lights on the outer edge, hovering silently above the ground, which eventually left, accelerating into space unlike any technology we currently even know of. Explaining this still doesn't make you believe it. Although many would like to believe, they need that one time of personal tangible experience to get a firm hold on that belief, and even then, very often, they disbelieve the self. Faith is a difficult place to go to, as I have heard it said "It's like being blindfolded and stepping onto a staircase that you can't even see the first step".

As I re-read my above paragraph, I see no mention that I am above the illusion at this point in illusory time. In fact, I see the opposite. I explain how I am affected by the illusion the same as you are. I would think that to suffice to show my understanding that I am bathed in the illusion the same as you are. Was I unclear in that explanation?

your various statements and approaches have been saying otherwise. i am the creator, all of these is an illusion, choice is an illusion, and so on.

I would say that one can be both, but that is incorrect. One IS both. One IS all. Only the perception of separateness exists. I understand this is paradoxical; it is meant to be. That is part of the illusion, THE reason for the implimentation of the veil, and the beginnings of coming to understand it as such.

Again, there is no time, only the illusory perception of it. One can no more hold onto the past as they can the future. Only the instant, the moment, is reality, for it is part of The Thought. I am (we are) therefore here and there in all places in all time, for there is only the here and the now, The Thought. All else is the illusion contained within The Thought.

here. answer to your question in the above block.

This above sentence(s?) is not structured correctly and as such does not make sense. Can you rephrase?

illusory perception of illusory time within a reality that is created by illusion, means that, within the bounds of that illusion, that illusion and all its perceptions, are real.

Only if you perceive it as such, and again, this is why the veil was implemented, so to give this perception.

I am both the illusion and infinity, as you are, as each is. You are simply unable to accept being that which you are, ... yet.

again, another statement of the same sort, putting your current self above the illusion. you arent both the illusion and infinity. you are illusion. the infinity, is in a future vantage point. thats what im talking about.

I placed myself above nothing, stating you are the same, as we all are. If you know it then you you know it as truth, and if you do not, then it is the truth which you do not know. There is no wrong or right in this. It simply is.

As I have seen The Creator, it is a spirit complex totality. "In its image" would mean what? That we are in its image as a sun? As a planet? As a rock? As a human? All of these are part of the Creator and as such are in "its" image, but really, is there an image as we may perceive it?

now we are coming to the crux of the matter. if, the creator you saw is a spirit complex totality, then it is not the creator you speak about - a spirit complex totality is a spirit complex totality of any given segment. your own, your societal complex (whichever you belong to), or the galaxy your societal complex belongs to, or any grouping that your galaxy belongs to, or any other grouping in the universe, or the universe, or groupings of universes as they go higher and higher.

i do not know whether you have seen your (or any other grouping's) totality - you havent described the details, however, if you have seen, it is not the creator you speak of - as a finite entity that is still manifesting as a finite entity, it is impossible for you to see, experience, or become one with over any certain portion of the totality, because your mind/body/spirit complex wouldnt be able to handle it. to handle and observe an infinite concept, you need to be infinite yourself. since you havent returned to infinity, and still here with us as an individual entity, you havent been infinity, so, that means, you havent observed infinity. in conjunction with this, it means you have observed only a certain part of a certain totality (if you have), and you have felt certain feelings and experiences during it. feeling a feeling of oneness, peace, tranquility, joy is related to receiving or vibrating in those energies in any given energy center for a given amount of time, and its not related to knowing. they basically signify the feeling associated with a given ray.

even these details aside, you are speaking of having seen a spirit complex totality. which is something that occurs with mind/body/spirit complex of an entity becoming whole, total. it still has body in it, it still has mind in it, even in the meaning of 7d body. having a body, would mean that something is still part of an illusion, as you speak of.

the creator you speak of would be above 7d.

I'm sorry, again, for the misunderstanding. I am apparently unable to explain properly what I have seen, Creation. This method of vibratory sound complex communication is limited at best. I am unable to fully convey to you what I have seen, no matter what words I use. Consider this if you will. A man says to his wife "I love you". Another man walks up behind his wife, kisses her on the neck, embraces her, and says nothing. Which of the two experiences communicates the feeling better? If you agree that the second one does, then perhaps you might accept the difficulty in explaining that which was shown me without words. I believe I began a thread on this. Perhaps you might find that and refer to my specific thoughts at the time I had the experience.

All densities, all octaves ARE of the Creator's original Thought. The Creator is not above, or below, anything.

The closest I might describe The Creator is as a huge ball of love/light, somewhat like a sun, though very unlike a sun in that its points of love/light extend outward creating the illusion like the points of an amethyst extend outwardly. This is a poor description though, as to explain that which is in my minds eye is just that, truly unexplainable. It took me a long and confused initial day to come to terms with seeing The Creator having The Original Thought, and months to truly grasp the finer points. This is not easily explained.

well, if you have seen a huge ball of love/light, somewhat like a sun, especially if it had a white light with a golden tint, nature, that would describe a 6th density entity, as Ra tells us. not a spirit complex totality.

this also coincides with the nature and feelings of the experience you speak of also. and it explains various other things.

As I said, "somewhat like a sun, though very unlike a sun". I knew when I wrote that, that it would be misunderstood... the more important part of that is the "unlike a sun". The Creator is made of both love and light, and the visual part of that is a brilliant white light.

Please re-read the forum rules and abide by them brother. Saying my words are irrelevant is against forum rule number 1. I shall not respond to these statements until/unless you reword/rewrite them in a continuing post in accordance with forum rules...

your response, was irrelevant to my question. it still is irrelevant to my question, and this has nothing to do with manners, forum rules, or any other thing.

Because you do not understand what I said does not mean it was irrelevant; it means you do not understand it.

[unity100]

Moderator note: This post has been edited to remove personal references.

I do not remember such exactness in Ra's words; I remember generalities which gave a glimpse, but nothing concrete. Can you perhaps provide for me a couple examples of what you say Ra said about fourth density? something specific which will further increase my immediate awareness of such?

http://lawofone.info/results.php?category=Densities

combining these information with the properties of various colors, rays, energies, vibrations that correspond to 8 chakras, numerous identifications and definitions can be made regarding any base color, and their carried meaning/feeling/understanding.

This is a beautiful concept, and one that I believe was capable of being manifested in the past. The present is less conducive to such, for there has been so much negative distortion to make such possible and acceptable. I have many people nowadays personally desiring for me to impart to them how I am able to remain in a state of what appears to them to be permanent bliss, yet I find that I think they would prefer a pill or medicine to knowing. Few do though water the seed of thought I place at their feet.

situation is to the contrary. currently, and since a while, incarnations are being done on a seniority basis. the more advanced entities which are near harvest are entering incarnations. moreover, there are 65+ million wanderers. not to mention that there has been a lot of spiritual text, channelings, approaches, philosophies put forward, to make a lot of terms, understandings, concepts much more common and everyday.

it has never been this easy to communicate anything spiritual in 3d on this planet.

You are correct that I may describe such, though as per your understanding of my description of my view of the One Creator, at its very core of being... has already proven this theory as being difficult to do, for you misunderstood and added context to what I said. The minute details and understanding which I garnered from the experience are such that I find them extremely difficult to explain accurately, and unless you experience the same, I can not begin to see how you would or could understand. I am not slighting you; I just don't see how you can fathom something that I think seems to you to be illusion, and that you clearly do not hold faith in, when to me this knowledge, understanding, and faith is absolutely real and unshakable.

noone can understand anything, if you do not communicate or share, or even attempt to do these.

I would suggest that today's world is so much different than the world of two hundred and beyond years ago. Although knowledge was not so available as it is now, the state of consciousness of many was at a higher level than it is today. Today it is all over the board, as it were, and the vast majority of mbsc reside in the lower extremes.

you are talking of 1760 AD. i read it again and again, and im not mistaken.

then, your observation is erroneous. overall consciousness of entities on a given planet, actually any society, defines the nature of the life, qualities, nature, understanding of that society, or any given time of that society.

back 250 years ago and beyond, the equality of people wasnt even something that is propose-able in everyday life, and enslavement of different race entities was seen as proper and natural way of life. enslavement has been noted by Ra as one of the very important problems of this planet. yet, you are talking about higher consciousness in an era where majority of entities participating in it saw that as a normal, acceptable, and even 'good' thing.

and that is taking the most 'advanced' ones of them even, not the entirety of world. also, im leaving aside ALL the other properties of mid 18th century society too. from debasing and demeaning of women, to the existence and 'god given right' of nobility, aristocracy to rule, a plainly negative concept.

im still not sure, how you could have possibly said that.

Logic can only take the third density seeker so far, at which point the consciousness must be moved from the mind to the heart in order to continue advancement. Yes, logic will take the seeker to that point faster, but logic/knowledge is not a required part of this third density existence, being that this is a density designed to make the choice.

consciousness doesnt move from mind to anywhere. consciousness is channeled to creation, and all the body, through mind, and as Ra said, all the thoughts, ideas, feelings, concepts exist in mind.

even if i take what you say in a metaphorical sense, what you feel with your heart, still is felt and happens in your mind, as Ra says.

The same goes for infants. Although knowing little, having forgotten everything due to the veil, their state of consciousness is such that they reside at a state slightly below enlightenment. Knowledge and experience in this modern world, for the most part do nothing but reduce that.

that approach is erroneous. an entity's consciousness is at the level of its consciousness, regardless of what kind of body it is in. it doesnt change with going back to time/space, or being unable to manifest itself through the chosen body in physical. being a child doesnt matter too. if the entity is in 4d as a soul, it is a 4d soul. if its 6d, it will is a 6d soul. that wont change with being an infant or anything else. it wont have any relation to any kind of enlightenment either - it will just maintain the nature and feeling of its own density, provided that it can vibrate in that frequency as mind/body/spirit in astral space, despite its body is crippled.

So, if I were to explain as such:

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Since this is has been the accepted understanding of creation for two thousand years, is it acceptable as truth? Does it explain The One Creator having its Original Thought better than I did? What I saw I have come to understand to be the same thing, though this description was designed to allow people to understand, in a simple way, that which is complex. I could go into complexities, though they would no do justice to what I have seen, and one most likely would still not understand/believe because they need to experience it them self in order to. Again, this is not a slight; how can one explain what chocolate cake tastes like to those that have never tasted it?

Take a UFO sighting for example. I, with several others, had a UFO encounter before I was ten years of age. When telling others about it, they refuted it, telling the lot of us that had seen the UFO that we had seen a plane, or a helo, or a weather balloon, etc etc. I stopped telling people, but I know what I had seen, a really large round shiny metallic disk, with lights on the outer edge, hovering silently above the ground, which eventually left, accelerating into space unlike any technology we currently even know of. Explaining this still doesn't make you believe it. Although many would like to believe, they need that one time of personal tangible experience to get a firm hold on that belief, and even then, very often, they disbelieve the self. Faith is a difficult place to go to, as I have heard it said "It's like being blindfolded and stepping onto a staircase that you can't even see the first step".

so basically, you have seen a source of light, an entity that radiates light. this is what i understand from what you are saying.

leaving the fact that you cannot even start to communicate anything before attempting to communicate it, from what you said so far, what you describe can define both a 5d entity, or a 6d entity. both have in their nature and manifestation have the capability of manifesting as sources of light, and 6d entities' normal nature are sources of light, with a golden tint. ra said to don when queried, 'if we have manifested in our true form, you would perceive us as light'.

at this point i will refer you to the first few pages of book i, where existence, creation is defined. first, there is infinity. then, infinity becomes aware of itself. this, becomes the potentiated, intelligent infinity, infinite intelligence, aka, creator. what you call love ( questionable in what form, as we know love feeling in 4d ray, or, some other kind of understanding, this part is not clear) comes after that realization of infinite intelligence of its free will, and light, comes after that.

that puts existence of light 1 to 1.5 levels after the creator you speak of.

and, in the example you gave from an earthly religion to express your point, the creator you speak of exists, and says, let there be light, and there happens light. that also means that even with that example/approach, you cant put an experience of a manifestation of light as the creator you speak of, as itself. the creator you speak of is only followed by the existence of light.

I would say that one can be both, but that is incorrect. One IS both. One IS all. Only the perception of separateness exists. I understand this is paradoxical; it is meant to be. That is part of the illusion, THE reason for the implimentation of the veil, and the beginnings of coming to understand it as such.

it is not paradoxical. if someone got hit on the head with a hammer, they will still die, and they will go to being whatever density they belong to in core vibrations, after going to their formmaker 6d astral body (as Ra describes) immediately after death. there is no paradox in it, they may be tied to infinite existence like everything else that exists, yet, a hammer will still kill them if it lands in their head, provided that it lands with a strong force enough. they are illusory enough for that to happen.

going to become a part of a mind/body/spirit totality in a future vantage point, will not change this fact, or make it an illusion to speak about - its real in your reality framework. what you call illusion itself is the building block of reality. the term, and word reality, is defined with whatever set of rules and laws created in a certain locale - basically illusion IS reality. those words are interchangeable, and illusion, despite the fleeting meanings that are loaded onto it to attempt to debase and lessen the importance of this particular reality, will not change that reality. hammer will still hit them in the head and lay them on the ground. even if they lay on the ground, saying 'everything is just an illusion' it will still happen.

This above sentence(s?) is not structured correctly and as such does not make sense. Can you rephrase?

never mind.

Only if you perceive it as such, and again, this is why the veil was implemented, so to give this perception.

again, regardless of how they perceive it, they will still die if anyone hits them in the head with a hammer with a force strong enough. it doesnt change with their perception.

a very blunt example, but very real.

I placed myself above nothing, stating you are the same, as we all are. If you know it then you you know it as truth, and if you do not, then it is the truth which you do not know. There is no wrong or right in this. It simply is.

please refer to the above. it doesnt matter whether you put all of us in the same basket and talk about the lessened importance of illusion and the existence of illusion.

all of us will die if someone hits us on the head with hammers with strong enough force.

what 'simply is', is the hammer here.

I'm sorry, again, for the misunderstanding. I am apparently unable to explain properly what I have seen, Creation. This method of vibratory sound complex communication is limited at best. I am unable to fully convey to you what I have seen, no matter what words I use. Consider this if you will. A man says to his wife "I love you". Another man walks up behind his wife, kisses her on the neck, embraces her, and says nothing. Which of the two experiences communicates the feeling better? If you agree that the second one does, then perhaps you might accept the difficulty in explaining that which was shown me without words. I believe I began a thread on this. Perhaps you might find that and refer to my specific thoughts at the time I had the experience.

all you need to do was to describe a few aspects of your experience. feelings do not define an experience alone. both in space/time and time/space, existence of any kind of factors can influence or affect a feeling. you may be seeing a certain dream, vision, or a manifestation of an astral phenomenon, but due to various factors and entities being in the vicinity, you may be feeling something totally different. all aspects of an experience make up the totality of that experience.

As I said, "somewhat like a sun, though very unlike a sun". I knew when I wrote that, that it would be misunderstood... the more important part of that is the "unlike a sun". The Creator is made of both love and light, and the visual part of that is a brilliant white light.

its not misunderstood. a 6d entity manifestation would not only manifest like a sun (ra says part of 6d existence is spent by 6d beings by manifesting small suns and acting as a part of the sun in co creatorship) and also would convey feelings of unity, oneness (which include love, by the way) in the process.

on another note, 'unlike the sun' is a very unfortunate definition. when one beholds the sun with the right vibration, frequency, and mind, s/he will find that the sun is 'unlike the sun' too itself.

as you can remember from Ra, sun is the manifestation of the local logos, the local creative node, which is a direct part of the creator.

Because you do not understand what I said does not mean it was irrelevant; it means you do not understand it.

i have asked you a specific question with specific arguments. this question was asked after you have presented your certain experience as an argument against what me and some other members were maintaining as approaches. responding to that 'oh the illusion', does not accomplish, or mean anything.

if, one brings any experience to the table to share with people, if, one joins any discussion and exclaims a point, gives an advice on something, or tries to show any kind of way to any other entity, in any fashion, s/he should be ready to share all aspects of what s/he is bringing to the best of his/her ability. at this point, what has been done becomes a commitment. the person opens that experience, view to others. it is his/her responsibility to present any possible effort to convey anything. 'oh but you dont understand', or 'how can i possibly convey', remain way past beyond that point.

...........

in any case we have talked enough on that train of thought, and i feel it exhausted its usefulness. i have understood what i have asked you about your experience. i can say, with light heart, that it does not constitute an argument against what i have been maintaining so far. i have said enough in this particular post regarding this, i wont talk on this subject any longer. thank you for your participation.

[Peregrinus]

Moderator note: This post has been edited to remove personal references.

I do not remember such exactness in Ra's words; I remember generalities which gave a glimpse, but nothing concrete. Can you perhaps provide for me a couple examples of what you say Ra said about fourth density? something specific which will further increase my immediate awareness of such?

http://lawofone.info/results.php?category=Densities

combining these information with the properties of various colors, rays, energies, vibrations that correspond to 8 chakras, numerous identifications and definitions can be made regarding any base color, and their carried meaning/feeling/understanding.

So what you are really saying is that you make, what you feel are, educated guesses... because I read, over and over again, as I said before, generalities in regards to specifics of the densities. If I may quote:

16.44 Ra: We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

33.20 Ra: I am Ra. We may speak only approximately. However, we hope you understand, shall we say, that there is a distinctive difference in the color structure of each density.

43:24 Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. However, the nature of this food is that of light and is impossible to describe to you in any meaningful way as regards the thrust of your query.

As I asked before, can you provide any specifics to your statements or just guesses and assumptions?

This is a beautiful concept, and one that I believe was capable of being manifested in the past. The present is less conducive to such, for there has been so much negative distortion to make such possible and acceptable. I have many people nowadays personally desiring for me to impart to them how I am able to remain in a state of what appears to them to be permanent bliss, yet I find that I think they would prefer a pill or medicine to knowing. Few do though water the seed of thought I place at their feet.

situation is to the contrary. currently, and since a while, incarnations are being done on a seniority basis. the more advanced entities which are near harvest are entering incarnations. moreover, there are 65+ million wanderers. not to mention that there has been a lot of spiritual text, channelings, approaches, philosophies put forward, to make a lot of terms, understandings, concepts much more common and everyday.

it has never been this easy to communicate anything spiritual in 3d on this planet.

This is correct that there are more wanderers and those that have rejoined the incarnate experience in order to be harvestable for graduation, but these two groups percentage is small in comparison to the general other-self lower vibration population.

You are correct that I may describe such, though as per your understanding of my description of my view of the One Creator, at its very core of being... has already proven this theory as being difficult to do, for you misunderstood and added context to what I said. The minute details and understanding which I garnered from the experience are such that I find them extremely difficult to explain accurately, and unless you experience the same, I can not begin to see how you would or could understand. I am not slighting you; I just don't see how you can fathom something that I think seems to you to be illusion, and that you clearly do not hold faith in, when to me this knowledge, understanding, and faith is absolutely real and unshakable.

noone can understand anything, if you do not communicate or share, or even attempt to do these.

If I told you I just saw David Rockefeller standing on his head in my bathroom and blowing bubbles with Hubba Bubba gum, would you believe me? You have a choice and can use discernment as to what is true to you. You know all the answers; you just have to ask the right questions, and I don't mean of me. Ask your higher self for the guidance you seek. You may be surprised at the help you are given.

To add a few lines from Wiki...

Things said to be essentially incommunicable
* The innate properties of any form of perception, at any level (such as awareness, self-consciousness, or other perceptions of the perceived to an arbitrary extent)
* The nature of qualia (sensory experiences), such as colors or flavors
* The nature of emotions (with love being a prominent example)
* The nature of religious experiences, e.g. Søren Kierkegaard's analysis of Abraham in Fear and Trembling, Problemata III, and in particular the mystic's realization of nonduality
* The near-death experience
* The experience of birth
* The psychedelic experience is largely considered ineffable to psychologists, philosophers and psychonauts alike
* The musical experience, following Theodor Adorno, Vladimir Jankélévitch, among others
* The human soul (see also sentience and the hard problem of consciousness)
* The Dao
* Nirvana

Things said to be incomprehensibly incommunicable
* Pre-mortal-existence
* Post-death
* Some interpretations of God
* Higher Dimensions

Apparently you think I should explain the unexplainable so you can know what I know... it cannot happen brother....

I would suggest that today's world is so much different than the world of two hundred and beyond years ago. Although knowledge was not so available as it is now, the state of consciousness of many was at a higher level than it is today. Today it is all over the board, as it were, and the vast majority of mbsc reside in the lower extremes.

you are talking of 1760 AD. i read it again and again, and im not mistaken.

then, your observation is erroneous. overall consciousness of entities on a given planet, actually any society, defines the nature of the life, qualities, nature, understanding of that society, or any given time of that society.

When mass karma from previous experience has been brought into play, there is a cause and effect. It is so with Mother Gaia, for we know this has been an experiment in bringing so many otherwise unrelated and karmically laden entities together in one place. In this experiment, the very negatively polarized few have affected the many.

Oh, and yes you are mistaken; I have never read the book you so assuredly think I was referring to. I have remembrance of parts of my past two incarnate experiences dating back to mid nineteenth century as well as other bits and pieces going back ~2000 years. I don't remember anything on mother Gaia before that though.

back 250 years ago and beyond, the equality of people wasnt even something that is propose-able in everyday life, and enslavement of different race entities was seen as proper and natural way of life. enslavement has been noted by Ra as one of the very important problems of this planet. yet, you are talking about higher consciousness in an era where majority of entities participating in it saw that as a normal, acceptable, and even 'good' thing.

And what makes you suggest that slavery is not part of this planet today, not a "good thing" for those that desire it so? You know as well as I do that the vast majority of slavery is now consensual, rather than forced (though in parts of the world there is still forced slavery). For many, freedom is an illusion within the illusion unless realization that the illusion exists and a higher state of consciousness is present in which the entity understands there is no situation or other self that has any real power over it. This is a basic choice.

and that is taking the most 'advanced' ones of them even, not the entirety of world. also, im leaving aside ALL the other properties of mid 18th century society too. from debasing and demeaning of women, to the existence and 'god given right' of nobility, aristocracy to rule, a plainly negative concept.

Your definition of advanced is obviously different than mine, though I will concede this point in terms of the majority of what might be called "the civilized world" were and continue to be barbaric in their treatment of other-selves.

The same goes for infants. Although knowing little, having forgotten everything due to the veil, their state of consciousness is such that they reside at a state slightly below enlightenment. Knowledge and experience in this modern world, for the most part do nothing but reduce that.

that approach is erroneous. an entity's consciousness is at the level of its consciousness, regardless of what kind of body it is in. it doesnt change with going back to time/space, or being unable to manifest itself through the chosen body in physical. being a child doesnt matter too. if the entity is in 4d as a soul, it is a 4d soul. if its 6d, it will is a 6d soul. that wont change with being an infant or anything else. it wont have any relation to any kind of enlightenment either - it will just maintain the nature and feeling of its own density, provided that it can vibrate in that frequency as mind/body/spirit in astral space, despite its body is crippled.

I wasn't speaking of the level of the oversoul or mbsc in removal of distortion. You surmise incorrectly. The state of the mbsc consciousness fluctuates by the moment just as does the energy bodies. Yes, in the oversoul there are only minor changes, but at the mbsc level, these changes can go from, for example, peace, joy, love, reason, neutrality, pride, anger, desire, fear, grief, guilt, shame... from any one of these levels to another, in a moment, each being either more or less separated from the Creator. Nothing is without change, or as I came to the conclusion when a teenager, "The only thing that never changes is that everything is always changing".

So, if I were to explain as such:

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

so basically, you have seen a source of light, an entity that radiates light. this is what i understand from what you are saying.

No, this is not what I was saying. If you desire instantaneuos perfect answers, you will not find them here. For instantaneous gratification, perhaps there is a fast food location near you...

leaving the fact that you cannot even start to communicate anything before attempting to communicate it, from what you said so far, what you describe can define both a 5d entity, or a 6d entity. both have in their nature and manifestation have the capability of manifesting as sources of light, and 6d entities' normal nature are sources of light, with a golden tint. ra said to don when queried, 'if we have manifested in our true form, you would perceive us as light'.

Every physical vehicle contains light; not only in the higher densities.

My inability in explaining... can you consider that it took me over 24 hours of contemplation just to come to the basic understanding of what I had witnessed? How do you possibley think I can express that in a mere few paragraphs? In reality, the memory has faded so that were I to begin to try to explain, there would be personal distortion in it, as is already evidenced.

I took from that what was important; I saw the Creator alone in the darkness to becoming aware to having its first thought and what our scientists would call the "big Bang Theory", though there was no big bang. The movement of the One Creator outward was silent though swift. That is what I witnessed.

Here is the thread I began when I had come to the understanding of what I had seen. You will note it is different to the time distorted view I remember now. http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=786

I would say that one can be both, but that is incorrect. One IS both. One IS all. Only the perception of separateness exists. I understand this is paradoxical; it is meant to be. That is part of the illusion, THE reason for the implimentation of the veil, and the beginnings of coming to understand it as such.

going to become a part of a mind/body/spirit totality in a future vantage point, will not change this fact, or make it an illusion to speak about - its real in your reality framework. what you call illusion itself is the building block of reality. the term, and word reality, is defined with whatever set of rules and laws created in a certain locale - basically illusion IS reality. those words are interchangeable, and illusion, despite the fleeting meanings that are loaded onto it to attempt to debase and lessen the importance of this particular reality, will not change that reality.

A hammer can not kill me, for I am infinite and eternal. It can only make the illusory physical vehicle which I inhabit unviable. That IS reality. Having my physical vehicle become unviable never bothered me much the last two times. Why would it this time, no matter the cause? As I have heard it said, every death is a suicide, and this is truth.

To paraphrase, "If you want to know if you have learned the lessons you came here to learn, here is the answer. If you are still here, you haven't".

Only if you perceive it as such, and again, this is why the veil was implemented, so to give this perception.

I placed myself above nothing, stating you are the same, as we all are. If you know it then you you know it as truth, and if you do not, then it is the truth which you do not know. There is no wrong or right in this. It simply is.

please refer to the above. it doesnt matter whether you put all of us in the same basket and talk about the lessened importance of illusion and the existence of illusion.

all of us will die if someone hits us on the head with hammers with strong enough force.

what 'simply is', is the hammer here.

Your rays are showing brother.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions.
Be careful what you do, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful what becomes habitual, for your habits become your destiny.

[unity100]

Moderator note: References paragraphs have been edited.

i cant even start to begin to react to this, in any meaningful fashion. i dont have any issue with nationalities, religions, identities, this, or that, but i find your mannerism and 'arguments' beyond explanation. not to mention that what you say in the 5 paragraphs unbelievably conflict with the last paragraph above.

i wont participate in such correspondence. have a nice day.

[Monica]

Thread is back online.