"The experience of no need to find the necessary emolument."

[Adonai One]

The title of this thread is very biased.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Hey A1, the title isn't intended to convey any particular message - are you aware of its context in the Ra material?

If you really think it is offensive it can be changed, but it's just meant to be a Ra "throwback."

[Adonai One]

Heh, it seems I had a misunderstanding about the context. All is well. Thank you.

Funny how I forgot this when it was one of the first things I read from the Ra Material.

*bows* Again, thanks.

[Ankh]

Adonai, are you ignoring or avoiding my two questions which I asked you?

Austin, thank you, for creating this thread! I did want to continue to discuss this topic, but at the same time felt that it was derailing forum relationship's thread.

[Adonai One]

Adonai, are you ignoring or avoiding my two questions which I asked you?

Austin, thank you, for creating this thread! I did want to continue to discuss this topic, but at the same time felt that it was derailing forum relationship's thread.

I'll assure you while you are still online: I'm on it. I'll edit it into this post.

If I were to really fall so low as to truly interact deeply with society

Two questions for you, Adonai:

1. Do you mean that interacting with our society is falling low?

2. What does your "deeply" mean in that sentence? Taking a job in service industry, is that interacting deeply with our society? Is it that what you meant?

I'll be frank, this society is based on enslavement from its foundation: Enslavement to a job and even to your family, if the value system is based on absolute commitment with no possibility of leaving.

I feel that it is in my honor/duty to myself to pick what I like from society and leave the rest. I will not immerse myself in the denials of all that society has to offer. I will take what is in resonance with me.

"Deeply" means depolarizing myself by way of subjugation and disserve to myself by way of sacrifice which is inherent in human society to a significant degree.

"Falling low" means becoming something that I cannot freely give to myself and that mainly consists of social norms based on a negative interpretation of the Catalyst of the Spirit through ways of conviction of the self to one potential. I will not contractually oblige myself to things. That is my principle.

If I am to become all things in complete unity, I cannot convict myself to only one interpretation, one self.

[ChickenInSpace]

I agree with you on so many levels, A1. For the longest of time I lived similar to you with the same conviction regarding slavery and money. I still find no point in money even though my salary is mostly based on how much lab equipment I sell.
While I disagree with how the world is run today I will attest to the awesome experiences of going from 'no money is good money' type of student life, through a good variety of voluntary work and into a real soul-killer of a job with semi-automatic interview-callcenter where the security of work was absolute zero.

The job I have now isn't my favorite one. It has some extremely challenging parts and constantly challenges my self. I see that as constructive. While it is arguable that I'm slaving away I still find the journey extremely worth it. Also if I hadn't done anything to support myself I would've been homeless today =).

My point is that while your ideology and worldview completely prevents you from filing away in a 9-5 job for the foreseeable future, the lessons and experience gained through this type of living is worth alot. Especially if it's far outside your comfort zone or 'desire' zone.

edit: copied half post from other thread

[Adonai One]

ChickenInSpace, I suffered through a 9-to-5 job at Wal-Mart Retail for a month and at school through its similar setting.

Both experiences left me wanting to kill myself.

[Ankh]

I'll be frank, this society is based on enslavement from its foundation: Enslavement to a job and even to your family, if the value system is based on absolute commitment with no possibility of leaving.

I feel that it is in my honor/duty to myself to pick what I like from society and leave the rest. I will not immerse myself in the denials of all that society has to offer. I will take what is in resonance with me.

"Deeply" means depolarizing myself by way of subjugation and disserve to myself by way of sacrifice which is inherent in human society to a significant degree.

"Falling low" means becoming something that I cannot freely give to myself and that mainly consists of social norms based on a negative interpretation of the Catalyst of the Spirit through ways of conviction of the self to one potential. I will not contractually oblige myself to things. That is my principle.

If I am to become all things in complete unity, I cannot convict myself to only one interpretation, one self.

You know what I see in your post, Adonai? "Me, me, me".

Mannize created once an expression on this forum which is "alien princes and princesses". And I want to add another expression to this, which is "alien brat". I don't know if you have this expression in US or Canada, but in Sweden it means, roughly speaking, a spoiled kid who is running around and show off with daddy's money. This kid hasn't accomplished anything by himself, or by his own, instead all that he has is based on hard work of other people. Like the house that you live in. It is build by hard working Gaian people who worked 9-5, if not more. The food that you eat, is also produced by hard working Gaian people. Heck! The body you inhibit is borned into this world by sweat and blood and hard work of Gaian people.

If this is what it means to be a Wanderer, then I am ashamed to call myself a Wanderer and don't want to be called that from now on. I would rather call myself a Gaian. I am ashamed.

Like Jeremy touched upon in one of his posts, he has been living once off his wife. And it has happened to me too, but in reverse. Two times I have been supporting, out of unconditional love, two different mates, by giving freely. But never once, did neither of them take it for granted, nor being arrogant about it. Never once did any of them say "I am not working nor planning to have any higher education, nor desiring it". They both were decent, honest people, who, if they could at that time, would work their asses off, in order to bring the food on our table, or pay our rent.

I will go now and lower my vibration by melding my energies with our society, as the vibration in this thread is way too high for me.

There is no experience which is not purchased by effort of some kind, no act of service to self or others which does not bear a price, to the entity manifesting, commensurate with its purity.

[reeay]

ChickenInSpace, I suffered through a 9-to-5 job at Wal-Mart Retail for a month and at school through its similar setting.

Both experiences left me wanting to kill myself.

A bright guy like you seems like a bad fit with wal mart.

[Adonai One]

ChickenInSpace, I suffered through a 9-to-5 job at Wal-Mart Retail for a month and at school through its similar setting.

Both experiences left me wanting to kill myself.

A bright guy like you seems like a bad fit with wal mart.

My plan was to work up the chain of command, with a promotion every month. Eventually get into management. I was almost a department manager after one month. The manager loved me. I did absolutely everything according to metric and standard operating procedure. I ironed my shirt, my pants and replaced my uniform when it tore.

The manager begged me to come back. However, seeing how my back ached after each day, how my mind decayed into numbness after a day's work, I saw that I would probably have severe health problems in a year or two.

The human body is not meant to sustain in the long-term with jobs like this, even management.

I can be a convicted worker but I see no virtue in it. I just see a collapse and denial of the self and for what? What is the attainment in the end? A memory of constant suffering. What the heck is the planet working towards?

[Horuseus]

Heck! The body you inhibit is borned into this world by sweat and blood and hard work of Gaian people.

To be fair I don't think it was hard work at all .

[Plenum]

There is no experience which is not purchased by effort of some kind, no act of service to self or others which does not bear a price, to the entity manifesting, commensurate with its purity.

who's your daddy?

[ScottK]

I can be a convicted worker but I see no virtue in it. I just see a collapse and denial of the self and for what? What is the attainment in the end? A memory of constant suffering. What the heck is the planet working towards?

In a macro sense, the generation from ages, say, 20 to 35 has learned plenty. They have been shown what it is that they likely don't prefer. If you have lived a life you don't prefer, when given the opportunity, you will probably work a lot harder to attain what you do prefer. The people from middle age and up are more content to tune themselves out of others problems. Life was easy when they were younger, and they don't understand the problems of today. I look for the energy of change to come from young people.

Of course, the generation from 20 to 35 has been propagandized to the point where many are little more than late 2nd density/early 3rd density in their behavior, so as the revolution takes hold, it ought to get interesting.

From an Adonai perspective, as I would see it, the impact that you have the potential of making could be slowed if you become a hermit-type and start to become cryptic and confusing to ordinary people. Your ideas are profound, but if you can't communicate those ideas to ordinary people at the level that they are ready to listen, you won't have much relevance to them. So a job could be kind of be forced interaction to continually be reminded of where others are at so you can figure out how to present your message so it has maximum impact. Just a thought..

Obviously, having a job to torture yourself since everyone else has to do it is nonsensical..

[Horuseus]

To be fair I've no room to talk in the experience department. I have awesome folk who I'm supported by at the moment. Itching to move out soon though.

a studio apartment?

Not sure. Wherever life takes me.

Considering the states actually (Have been told west coast by 2-3 independent sources). Down under in aussie land or Europe as well.

[Steppingfeet]

This kid hasn't accomplished anything by himself, or by his own, instead all that he has is based on hard work of other people. Like the house that you live in. It is build by hard working Gaian people who worked 9-5, if not more. The food that you eat, is also produced by hard working Gaian people. Heck! The body you inhibit is borned into this world by sweat and blood and hard work of Gaian people.

I think the most challenging part about relating to, and accepting, A1's position is his seeming lack of recognition of how thoroughly that position relies on the work and energy of other people. (As you expressed in the quoted paragraph above, and as I was getting at
here.

Personally, I'm not judging his viewpoint, just examining what may be causing the difficulty of relating to it. In my estimation, that is the gaping hole in the position.

Adonai One, I am curious as to your response when asked directly: do you acknowledge that your position inherently means that other selves are carrying you? Whether directly (your wife - who I note is happy to do so) or indirectly (the people who, as Ankh have mentioned, have built the home, or grew the food, etc.) Whether you do or don't is your prerogative, I am just curious as to your response.

And if I may conjecture here, it seems that your position stems from suffering and pain:

The human body is not meant to sustain in the long-term with jobs like this, even management.

I can be a convicted worker but I see no virtue in it. I just see a collapse and denial of the self and for what? What is the attainment in the end? A memory of constant suffering. What the heck is the planet working towards?

So in order to avoid that suffering, you simply avoid what seems one of its causes: working for income.

Again, that's fine, no judgment. I think what creates some catalyst in terms of how we relate to one another is the rationale behind your decision, and the seeming lack of acknowledgement that your decision necessarily means that instead of being self-reliant, you are other self-reliant.

Further, there is some difficulty in relating because there seems to be a lack of recognition that most people feel similarly about their work. I would wager the vast majority of people on this planet likewise don't want to work. Many who work for income do so with varying degrees of suffering, more often than not that suffering is probably much worse than what you experienced during your one month at Wal-Mart.

And that's one among a myriad sources of suffering: the cocooned, insulated, narrowed focus on the self's concerns to the exclusion of the wider reality around one.

With love/light,
GLB

PS: I ask you these questions because it seems you're entirely comfortable discussing you. They are not put forward in a challenging or judgmental spirit.

[Ankh]

There is no experience which is not purchased by effort of some kind, no act of service to self or others which does not bear a price, to the entity manifesting, commensurate with its purity.

who's your daddy?

I'm sorry. I didn't understand this?

[Steppingfeet]

I'm sorry. I didn't understand this?

I can't speak for Plenum, but "Who is your daddy" is a funny Arnold line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XyfYc0bfB4

Sorry for off-topic-ness.

[Adonai One]

The Earth has to carry me, yet I pay it nothing for the inherent air it provides. My parents have carried me through my early life yet I have to pay no dues to them. However, it seems when I become "independent," those of the collective claim I have a bill to pay throughout my life and that I have to pay dues just like them.

I can only ask why it is a sin to rely on the other as long as the other is willing to freely give it? Do you subscribe to a form of forced Egalitarianism? This philosophy tells me that everybody should serve everyone in the same regardless of personal desires. Is this what you believe in?

Do you believe the governmental and corporate functions of the world should force me into a job so all things can be fair and just?

I don't believe significant suffering is necessary. I do not believe I owe anything to anyone that has chosen their suffering. If people choose to provide things, I should not be obligated to pay a tax in gratitude with every service. I can only term such a relationship one thing: Slavery. The slave owes his life to his master. In this vision, I owe my life to the collective on the premise that my existence would be nothing without everyone else thus I should pay until I am deemed worthy of a title of independence.

I find this to be an endless series of conditional relationships. The concept of "earning my place and my comfort" is based on the idea of their being something to earn. It's a false concept to me that is based on me being obligated to be a certain way. It has no justification to me. It sounds like to me a series of schools and parents indoctrinated children into the ideal of earning their way to the top of pyramid and then resting.

I do not find any justification for the idea that one has to earn what is given to them. I find no justification that my reliance connotes that I am truly a burden when what I have is freely given.

[BrownEye]

I think the most challenging part about relating to, and accepting, A1's position is his seeming lack of recognition of how thoroughly that position relies on the work and energy of other people.

The idea has had me laughing since he first brought it up.

I had friends in the past that perceived life in this way. It prepared one individual for life in homeless shelters.

Another spent his grandmother's money on philosophy classes in college, and has nothing to show for it. I got tired of him always coming to me to fix things for him.

My older sister has never had a job in her life, living off of others as a scam artist. She is an empty shell now.

[Ankh]

I'm sorry. I didn't understand this?

I can't speak for Plenum, but "Who is your daddy" is a funny Arnold line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XyfYc0bfB4

Sorry for off-topic-ness.

LOL! Oh, I see. It was a joke!

Back on topic: I loved your previous post, and now that I think further about it, I get a deeper understanding of this:

78.21 Questioner: You stated previously that The Choice that is made in this density, third density, is the axis upon which the creation turns. Could you expand on your reason for making that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement of the nature of creation as we speak to you.

Now that I think about, not only the house where I live, and the food that I eat, is there because of the hard work of other selves, this whole experience which I am enjoying now, is due to this work or service, starting from central suns of this Galaxy, going forward, into this sub-logos, and ending with us being here (or not really ending just quite yet, as this will continue until intelligent infinity decides to once again coalesce:

"However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.")

Which bring me to the Original Thought:

"The One Original Thought is the harvest of all previous, if you would use this term, experience of the Creator by the Creator. As It decides to know Itself It generates Itself into that plenum, full of the glory and the power of the One Infinite Creator which is manifested to your perceptions as space or outer space. Each generation of this knowing begets a knowing which has the capacity, through free will, to choose methods of knowing Itself. Therefore, gradually, step by step, the Creator becomes that which may know Itself, and the portions of the Creator partake less purely in the power of the original word or thought. This is for the purpose of refinement of the one original thought. The Creator does not properly create as much as It experiences Itself."

My thought is that in third density there is this basic choice, service to others or to self. Ra mentioned that service to self path is that which is not. And perhaps seeing it from this bigger picture one can understand why. All that is experienced and is in the progress of experiencing now, is based on "service to others polarity".

Of course, as mind/body/spirit complexes, we can choose to take that path which is not, at least for a little while. But at the end, the very reason to why we are here at all, is due to work and effort of what others did before us. This service is perhaps indeed the axis upon which creation turns?

[Adonai One]

And the work and effort before can expect nothing for its service and mostly does except on planet's that believe the labor and obligations of the self extends as far as those who are birthed after it: A lineage of slaves.

[Matt1]

I don't work because i want to but because i have to make money to keep things running, a roof over my head and food in my belly. Ultimately i found that the different jobs i have been in it were repeating catalyst, at times i really disliked working but then i made peace with it and turned the experience into a way to be of service to other and to be mindful.

Thus i believe it is possible to transform even the most mundane of tasks/jobs into the work of the creator, for doesn't every experience continue the unity?

[Ankh]

Adonai, you either didn't answer Gary's question or you answered it too vaguely so I didn't catch your answer. Do you acknowledge that the whole reason to why you can enjoy your experience now is because of other people's work, directly and indirectly?

Now to what I see as a problem with your so called "philosophy". If everyone would adopt the same thinking as you have for now, our whole society would colapse and turn into a chaos. You might think that this is needed and maybe even something good. But it's not. And here is why I think. The house where you live would become cold, dirty and eventually fall in pieces, as no one would maintain it. No one would go to their work, remember? Food and water will no longer be available to you as no one go to work, remember? This would force you to leave your cozy, comfortable home and seek out a piece of land where you could grow your own food. But where would you find the seeds to even start this project? You would at least need some vegetables and grains, right? But where would you find the seeds? I doubt you would survive even the first year, and when winter comes, good luck with being in Canada! This situation will be similiar for most of our people. So majority would die due starvation and freezing to death, but before that death, suffer greatly, which would make suffering at Wal Mart to appear as a vacation. Good luck with writing your books and contemplating oneness in this atmosphere!

Now, one would think that nothing bad which doesn't bring something good with it, and maybe after this disaster you would think that something good may come up. But remember that people would still have your philosophy of not wanting to work but being dependant on another self instead. So good luck with this new society!

But that's just empty words and pointless philosophizing. What I see is that you live of work of other selves, thinking that this is "as it should be", but you paint it all that you can in words and philosophy. That choice is yours.

[Adonai One]

I think you are wrong. Why? Assuming my philosophy of no sacrifice, men and woman would rebuild things and do things because they would want to, not because they would have to. The men and women who would not want to do anything would rely on others without any obligation. I believe that is okay.

The people who would want and enjoy things as they were the most, would work. The rest would do as they please.

No, the workers would not be exalted above the people who simply rested. No, there would not be an equal distribution of labor. However, people would be in more resonance with their roles in society.

[Ankh]

I think you are wrong. Why? Assuming my philosophy of no sacrifice, men and woman would rebuild things and do things because they would want to, not because they would have to. The men and women who would not want to do anything would rely on others without any obligation. I believe that is okay.

The people who would want and enjoy things as they were the most, would work. The rest would do as they please.

No, the workers would not be exalted above the people who simply rested. No, there would not be an equal distribution of labor. However, people would be in more resonance with their roles in society.

As I said, before this rebuilding there will be mass death of our people and great suffering.

But I think that you are into something here actually: some maybe do have a talent for polarization and many may just like to be in the sinkhole of indifference?

[Adonai One]

People would eat, drink and sleep at minimum. At least people would have a proper night's rest rather than overworking themselves into 6 hours of sleep. I do not believe people would starve to death. They would simply respect themselves and as such feed themselves if things became so bad. I trust in humanity to care for itself without sacrifice.

I do not believe polarization is related to labor at all. In fact, I believe that most of the workforce is depolarized because they cannot even see their desires or the desires of others, nor share them.

---

I believe polarization is about happiness in the self and others by the fulfilling of desires. What we have now goes against this, for everyone works against fulfilling their own desires and fulfilling the desires of people who cannot be fulfilled because of their work situation.

[Ankh]

I don't see any point of discussing this further with you for now, Adonai. You are not answering any questions but keep ranting about your beliefs which I already addressed, of why not only your beliefs wouldn't work but also the amount of suffering and death your beliefs would bring upon this planet and our people would everyone adopt them.

Good thing though, this catalyst has even more brought me closer to this planet and Her people, our people. I will go on now, and work my nightshift, blendig my energies with my brothers and sisters.

Good luck with whatever you seeking, A1.

Adonai, Adonai.

[Adonai One]

Well, just so you know, I would rather die than live the life people want me to live. If what was asked of me was forced upon me indefinitely, I would fall asleep one night and not wake up again. That is my ultimatum for my life. I will not live under duress nor obligation.

[Ankh]

And I would rather die serving my daughter or in some other sense when serving something greater than me, me, me.

[Adonai One]

There is no thing greater than all things and I would die defending that ideal. All things, all desires are to be considered in my worldview, especially my own. There is a self in all and all is one self. There is no separation. There is nothing greater. There is only unity.

---

If I support the mistreatment of myself, I directly support and continue the mistreatment of others.