What greatly confuses me about this forum...

[Adonai One]

Is not the goal of this community to discuss the material that has been retermed from "The Ra Material" to "The Law of One"? If its name is "The Law of One" then why is the concept of oneness denoted as something not attainable in this density according to some of this community? Why would its messengers leave this concept complex, oneness, to its wanderers and the people of this planetary sphere if it were not attainable by such?

[Jeremy]

Because when it comes to the natives, this density is purely for The Choice. Once it has been made, then the subsequent densities shall educate everyone on the love, compassion, and wisdom that is found there. Such unity isn't even attained until a much much higher density so why attempt to put the cart before the horse in the first place? Baby steps is what's asked of us so why buck the trend? If one wants to pursue adepthood then that's cool and all but many of the people upon this sphere can't even make the simple choice of how to live their life so how would you get them to accept the concept of oneness to them?

Edit: also oneness is still and will always be purely a concept given the constraints of this density due to the veil. So try as one might, such a concept cannot truly be appreciated and experienced until the veil has been lifted.

[zenmaster]

"You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards."

[reeay]

Have you attained oneness?

[Adonai One]

Depends who you ask, Rie. According to some, yes. According to a great majority of this planet, no. The culture seems to be the viewfinder that defines this.

---

Because when it comes to the natives, this density is purely for The Choice. Once it has been made, then the subsequent densities shall educate everyone on the love, compassion, and wisdom that is found there. Such unity isn't even attained until a much much higher density so why attempt to put the cart before the horse in the first place? Baby steps is what's asked of us so why buck the trend? If one wants to pursue adepthood then that's cool and all but many of the people upon this sphere can't even make the simple choice of how to live their life so how would you get them to accept the concept of oneness to them?

Edit: also oneness is still and will always be purely a concept given the constraints of this density due to the veil. So try as one might, such a concept cannot truly be appreciated and experienced until the veil has been lifted.

Why would one seek oneness as a concept without first seeing it within the self?

[zenmaster]

If everyone is seeking oneness, how does your distorted version of that process shed light for others?

[Adonai One]

Debasement.

[zenmaster]

So, for example, how would your pet-spell instructions exemplify your idea of debasement?

[Unbound]

Debasement.

How does that honour that all is one? Unless of course you see yourself as the only one who is the one and the rest of us are just "you". Then again, I could say the same for myself.

So, what is your point?

It seems your belief is that the idea of oneness is something which should be common knowledge and I can't necessarily disagree with that, but it kind of ignores the whole free will thing.

[Adonai One]

Zenmaster's idea of discussion is continual debasment. That is what I intended to share. I am usually willing to discuss things with him but it usually leads to nowhere. That is all I desire to say on his post.

As for oneness, it is not common knowledge as it seems the idea is seen as folly in the way it is interpreted. I believe The Law of One intended to communicate that in the free will of others there is inherent unity.

[Fastidious Emanations]

interpretation of catalyst

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder what oneness feels like. Is it blissful, or is it stillness? Or is it just an acceptance of other selves. And does it require a social memory complex?

[manniz]

Adonai, I have seen last 3-4 threads of yours, and nowhere has ZM been offensive at all. Infact, if you had paid more attention to some of those one-liners, you would have come across excellent mirrors.

Brother, this seeking of Oneness takes millions upon millions of years (Earth years). It would be best to begin on this path, rather than feeling your own adepthood. I always learn humility from the fact that there are trillions of entities ahead of me in both love and wisdom, and the One existence has done this whole creation thing probably trillions of times already.

In my opinion, you are in a mode, where you expect to make spiritual statements (generally as teachings to others), and then expect others to agree, or shower back love. That is a valid path, but will sure add extra time to your seeking, which in the big picture is absolutely fine too. taking your time is totally fine. You are being shown very gentle mirrors here (what you call debasement). Our paths can have many harsh mirrors too.

I do not expect these words to have any effect. There is a reason that change happens slowly, in millions upon millions of years (human years) and numerous incarnations. You obviously have the love, why not try a little patience, and accept that a beginner is as valid a position as any. Enjoy the experience.

---

I am usually willing to discuss things with him but it usually leads to nowhere.

I would love to see, where this was attempted. Learning from others helps. In the last two weeks, I have noticed posts from Tanner, Jeremy and ZM, and enjoyed learning from them, and co-incidentally all three have shown you decent mirrors in this one thread alone.

[zenmaster]

A1, when you say "more I cannot say", do you realize that the limitation which stifles your ability to speak on the subject is due to lack of experience and grounding? If you never bother to create experience from what is offered by the "potentiator", then you can never learn or teach about what your intuition is suggesting. Projecting "debasement" offers a clue on what is being bypassed and also why.

[Matt1]

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

[zenmaster]

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

Enlightenment usually just means the quality of spiritual awareness which comes along with a little time/space work. Time/space sheds light on the interior condition which of course is shared as mind. That consciousness is not yet at adept level, and not quite at graduation polarity but close.

[Matt1]

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

Enlightenment usually just means the quality of spiritual awareness which comes along with a little time/space work. Time/space sheds light on the interior condition which of course is shared as mind. That consciousness is not yet at adept level, and not quite at graduation polarity but close.

I had a sneaky feeling i would get some feed back on that one. I see were your coming from but i feel that we are getting caught up in wording. For me Enlightenment means Nirvana/Light body, i would say there is different degrees of enlightenment but overall i feel the later is what most people refer to when they speak of enlightenment.

[zenmaster]

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

Enlightenment usually just means the quality of spiritual awareness which comes along with a little time/space work. Time/space sheds light on the interior condition which of course is shared as mind. That consciousness is not yet at adept level, and not quite at graduation polarity but close.

I had a sneaky feeling i would get some feed back on that one. I see were your coming from but i feel that we are getting caught up in wording. For me Enlightenment means Nirvana/Light body, i would say there is different degrees of enlightenment but overall i feel the later is what most people refer to when they speak of enlightenment.

it's not really "getting caught up in", but rather the distinction is required due to levels of consciousness. There is always a more ultimate "ultimate". Contact with intelligent infinitity is not actualization of infinity/unity just an ability to access a level of consciousness in which thought vibrates with that infinity/unity. Activation is not fulfillment or actualization, it's just minimal acceptance and awareness afforded by consciousness, a peek or taste of something which engenders a feeling.

[Adonai One]

A1, when you say "more I cannot say", do you realize that the limitation which stifles your ability to speak on the subject is due to lack of experience and grounding? If you never bother to create experience from what is offered by the "potentiator", then you can never learn or teach about what your intuition is suggesting. Projecting "debasement" offers a clue on what is being bypassed and also why.

This limitation is brought on by suggestion by others when I wrote such posts. It is well to assume distortion but I believe this should be left to your own discernment.

---

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

It is well to assume that one is "enlightened" when the self is known and that the self is one with the self. I speak only to offer a contrast as to whether this oneness is in the self or in something above the self. In my seeking, I seek no attainment.

---

I have my teachers/learners that aid in my posts. The"limitations" are invoked only to respect free will.

[Unbound]

Zenmaster's idea of discussion is continual debasment. That is what I intended to share. I am usually willing to discuss things with him but it usually leads to nowhere. That is all I desire to say on his post.

As for oneness, it is not common knowledge as it seems the idea is seen as folly in the way it is interpreted. I believe The Law of One intended to communicate that in the free will of others there is inherent unity.

Ooh, I thought you were responding to his question.

---

Also, I kind of find it hilariously ironic that some people, such as ZM, seem to have an issue with you "limiting" your speech and expression as though they are somehow entitled to know the entire contents of your thoughts, yet he says you are "projecting debasement" while at the same time projecting on to you a "lack of experience and grounding" as though that assessment is anymore true.

---

A1, when you say "more I cannot say", do you realize that the limitation which stifles your ability to speak on the subject is due to lack of experience and grounding? If you never bother to create experience from what is offered by the "potentiator", then you can never learn or teach about what your intuition is suggesting. Projecting "debasement" offers a clue on what is being bypassed and also why.

This limitation is brought on by suggestion by others when I wrote such posts. It is well to assume distortion but I believe this should be left to your own discernment.

---

I feel that people equal what we would think of as enlightenment to that of oneness. In that sense i say it is possible to reach enlightenment in this life.

It is well to assume that one is "enlightened" when the self is known and that the self is one with the self. I speak only to offer a contrast as to whether this oneness is in the self or in something above the self. In my seeking, I seek no attainment.

---

I have my teachers/learners that aid in my posts. The"limitations" are invoked only to respect free will.

If I am being honest, the main reason, right now, that dissuades me from seeing you as having embodied "oneness" is the fact that you are not speaking for yourself nor are your individual thoughts the contents of your posts.

[Adonai One]

If we are one, then is not collaboration an embodiment of the One Infinite Creator?

[Unbound]

Everything is an embodiment of the One Infinite Creator, so the point is moot. I have many guides and teachers I learn/teach with, but how can I embody fully the self that I am if I let them speak for me or teach everything I am to teach? I see "oneness" as meaning an awareness of "being one". The One that I am is One and if I let the Creator speak from within me then it is I who speaks and no other.

There is nothing wrong with your method, by all means that is not what I am trying to express, but rather that I think the exact wisdom of your self would more concisely express itself if it was you, as ONE, speaking for yourself.

I see myself as composed of many parts, different souls even, and indeed we sit as a group of one, as one mind and we collaborate. However, when I speak I speak as the Creator, the unique self that I am that is singular, and One. The other selves which I collaborate also do the same, they each know that they themselves are One and so we do not need to speak for eachother. The purpose of my voice, the voice of the Creator, is to actualize and express the thoughts of the group, but this is all done through the discernment of my own "I". Thus, I speak not the thoughts of others, or of the group, but rather my own, individual view that is experienced as One experiencing a self of many-ness.

Basically, in short, the self that is One, in my experience, is something which is not touched by any other personality and is my own pure, undistorted core. I know I am speaking from this core because I am consciously and intentionally creating my thoughts without recourse to any other source. That being said, yes, my intelligence is 'informed' by many, many sources, but I would no more deny those other sources the fact of their own Oneness as myself.

The ultimatum, "All is One" can be read in multiple ways. First we can view it as "one" being applied to the concept of "all", in that "all" is actually "one". This is the usual interpretation of this statement. However, I have also interpreted it the other way with the "all" being applied to the "one" to suggest that each individual part of the all, is One. That is, I am One, you are One, my cat is One, etc. Multiplicity is the cross-reference between the All being One, and the One that each of the All is, in my mind.

That being said, to me, for one to "be one" then that requires a recognition of the Self as One, as well as All as the One.

My point here being that you are not expressing a viewpoint from the self as one, but are only touching the all as the one, at least that is what I perceive. By all means, this is an external observation and is completely privy to my own biases, but perhaps it is something to chew on for some.

[manniz]

Also, I kind of find it hilariously ironic that some people, such as ZM, seem to have an issue with you "limiting" your speech and expression as though they are somehow entitled to know the entire contents of your thoughts, yet he says you are "projecting debasement" while at the same time projecting on to you a "lack of experience and grounding" as though that assessment is anymore true.

No one is entitled, but fair for them to analyze someone's posts, see the thinking behind them, and respond accordingly. Once someone presents their thoughts on a public forum, fair for others to respond, especially if they are not even using any abuse. If that is not free expression, I do not know what is. You may consider them as "know it alls" but absolutely their right to present their analysis.

A1 can express himself more, if he really wants to pursue the path of wisdom intensely. Now, there is absolute validity to pursuing wisdom in your own space, in your own mind (which is where it is anyways). However, the moment he posts his teachings on a public forum, he should expect arguments challenging his ideas, when some of them may actually be useful for his own analysis.

I generally see him presenting his ideas as teaching to others (which are very obviously him trying to seek validation that "Yes he knows his s***," no matter how he coats them in language of love and defensiveness).

Please look at this - I found Ra material last may, and found this forum in November, and I started tracking back threads for previous months. that was the season of Adonai accounting for half of the threads made. I remember one of the first ones was where he somehow calculated how many negative entities are in fifth and sixth densities. This was my first exposure to other humans discussing Ra, and for all I knew, Adonai could be the special sixth density wanderer laying out these things for me. Ofcourse, it did not take long for basic human common sense to tell me that this is just someone seeking major validation, from others, as well as his own self. But, I do remember how distorted some of those ideas were, and how they could have totally distorted the thinking of a new seeker. And, I noticed that he was generally getting good empty sort of validation, except few people actually discussing his pronouncements with him analytically. Which he never liked, and some others also started seeing the questions as mean.

But think about this. Lots of those ideas were major distortions, and any ideal discussion place would allow their criticism, so that a different picture is presented. It would actually help him ground himself. Because, we can argue about it endlessly, but in my opinion, A1 lacks experience and grounding at this current stage of his incarnation. I have no interest in arguing about that, just listen to his pronouncements on higher densities, 1000s lives worth of pain, he knows all that is to know about Earth, then a higher level entity basically asking others to not oppose him (in his own post on "the will" thread. Forget A1, these ideas are fair to be criticized just for the sake of analysis and thinking

He may learn more, and become all of our gurus for all I know. But for now, who knows that he may actually be at the last stages of completing 51% love requirements, but his desire to be the expert may actually bring distortions. We do not know, but it is fair for someone to assume that, and provide their analysis. If they do not abuse him, it is totally valid. And, infact a substantial amount of Earth catalyst comes in those ways. That kinda criticism. I have learned about life so much from the harsh arguments, and here what is being presented to A1 is mild, very mild. When I read Ra material, I get feelings that he seems to be getting, as in "oh, this makes sense." But, grace keeps me from making multiples threads about it, while advising others about the spiritual wisdom. I am fine with condescending myself a spiritual novice, but a well experienced human being. And, in my experience, A1needs to take responsibility for his pronouncements, which is accepting other entities' view on them. The validity of other mirrors.

Ofcourse the most balanced way is to ignore A1's posts, and watch them from a distance, but I am willing to delve into the 3rd density confusion, and say that he has been substantially coddled here. In my biased, low level analysis, the most important thing for him right now is to learn love and subtle humility. It is so easy to declare oneness, and love by nice words, empty phrases. can you imagine Buddha and Jesus getting mad at ZM's statements.

Buddha left his kingdom (he was a prince) and searched for years all alone in a jungle, (without multiple spiritual, occult documents to help him). And he did not make announcements to others about every new idea he discovered. He shared them. He criticized too. But did not use the cover of love to basically say "hey, everyone, look at me."

A1 has posted major distortions, which would shame Blossom goodchild, yet he has learned good stuff too. It is absolute fair for someone to question the distorted, or "empty phrase" ideas. Oh well, why do I care about some 19 yr old repeating phrases from spiritual documents as special wisdom. Because, A1 has lots of love potential. And, I find it weird that it is not considered okay by some to not question what others perceive to be amateurish statements on a forum that is dedicated to Ra material, which opens up freedom, experience and spirituality for you in such a precise, wise manner.

Some of my posts are so full of random ranting, I would criticize them myself. Oh well, no hurry, we all got our time and paths.

But guys, seriously, shall I collect all the postings that A1 has made, which can be validly argued to contain fear, confusion, and a subtle desire to be an expert, and then only expect positive response to it? I won't ( I have already spent too much time on someone's online persona). But please, Ra material requires intense discussions, and it is just too non-nonsensical for someone to basically say, "Hey, you gotta accept all A1's pronouncements, and you cannot present your biased analysis (ofocurse, every post here is biased, every thought in third density is biased to some extent) on it, because you do not know his thoughts.

Tanner, not directed you at all, just a general rant about why I think it is important for others to thoroughly analyze spiritual pronouncements of some. If it had been done more often, we would not have stagnant religions, spiritual gurus at every street corner, declarations of ascensions at specific dates etc.

I personally think A1 has genuine love, but so many times, he seeks validation, while maintaining in his own mind that he is very independent. Just my opinion, which could be totally off-base, because I am not in his head. Yet, my infinite right to make it.

[Adonai One]

I do not seek to become any form of guru or established authority. I am simply a teacher in the capacity that I offer myself to others with my choice and interpretation of responsibility.

[reeay]

When we talk about oneness it seems to go in the direction of --> 1) all is one; 2) all is well; 3) all is perfect, and 4) there is no right or wrong. In the context of 3D experience, this may just as well be a sort of cop out from delving into our catalyst tho it may serve as a reminder of something 'bigger'. I choose to experience separateness bc there is value in this experience. You've been hooked on the oneness thing since beginning of last year tho (you, me, and Austin chatted about this once). So zenmaster's comment about your distortion here might be a relevant feedback.

[Adonai One]

I have never contested the will of others to be as they are and speak as they wish. This is only my interpretation of my words. I do not intend to create a suggestion so pronounced that others act against their own wills.


This is in response to manniz's post.

---

When we talk about oneness it seems to go in the direction of --> 1) all is one; 2) all is well; 3) all is perfect, and 4) there is no right or wrong. In the context of 3D experience, this may just as well be a sort of cop out from delving into our catalyst tho it may serve as a reminder of something 'bigger'. I choose to experience separateness bc there is value in this experience. You've been hooked on the oneness thing since beginning of last year tho (you, me, and Austin chatted about this once). So zenmaster's comment about your distortion here might be a relevant feedback.

Is there a right or wrong in the eyes of The Law of One as offered in the material discussed in this forum?

[Unbound]

That post (Manniz) reminds me of a story of a Master Yogi telling his student to go seek meditation in a far-off cave and when the Master comes to find the student packing his things for the trip he sees he is packing all sorts of paper and things. The Master asks what all that is for, and the student replies that it is so he can write down all the beautiful poetry and ideas he will have while he is in meditation. The Master immediately takes the supplies away and says that the student is going in to retreat to seek his true self and to become empty of distraction and that enlightenment is not realized through the externalization of one's thoughts but in through the correct, undiluted perceiving of the pure self.

I used to want to share every major realization I had as well, and in many cases did so on these forums. Sometimes I still do. Eventually I realized that the realizations were disjointed and if you took them out of context of eachother then you just had a broken system of thought and philosophy without substance. That doesn't mean the realizations in and of themselves were not useful, but that disconnected from the continuum of my experience they are snapshots that are more distracting than enlightening.

[Adonai One]

Distractions are within my seeking, this is true. I seek only to be who I am, distractions and all.

[Unbound]

Distractions are within my seeking, this is true. I seek only to be who I am, distractions and all.

I feel your heart in this post more than I have in some time.

---

To make my thoughts more concise I will simply say that none of us here really know Immanuel nor have we been given the opportunity to speak with him. We have talked with Sirius/Ra, Ion, and who knows what other amalgamates and groups. We have experienced your channelings, and your higher self, and entities from this end of the universe to that.

Yet, I would like to speak with Immanuel because it seems his voice is drowned out by all the "voices of wisdom".

[xise]

When we talk about oneness it seems to go in the direction of --> 1) all is one; 2) all is well; 3) all is perfect, and 4) there is no right or wrong. In the context of 3D experience, this may just as well be a sort of cop out from delving into our catalyst tho it may serve as a reminder of something 'bigger'. I choose to experience separateness bc there is value in this experience. You've been hooked on the oneness thing since beginning of last year tho (you, me, and Austin chatted about this once). So zenmaster's comment about your distortion here might be a relevant feedback.

I think you and I may agree in actuality, but as stated, I disagree with your statement.

It's only a cop out if you use conclusory thinking in coming to those conclusions all is one, all is well, all is perfect, there is no right and wrong. For short I will term these as "infinities."

If you seek those principles in every single experience and catalyst you have, and you organically and truly discover those principles in each experience and catalyst without fooling yourself, that's where the truly beauty begins and that's how these concepts can aid in self-balance.

All forms of conclusory thinking are forms of bypassing. If you are are sick as s***, and you are depressed, and you feel bad, and you just start chanting all is well, that probably won't do much. I think you can even suppress your own emotions and experiences by doing that and add to your own distortion. Infinities should not be used to suppress or discount physical experiences. But if you realize there is love in the moment as Ra says, and honestly acknowledge that you cannot see this love, and yet begin to seek it, that is how the journey starts. The journey starts and ends with infinities, but the path involves nitty-gritty self-discovery along the way.

It's when you start your journey seeking the actual experiential realization of these infinities here in 3D can you begin to understand them, and when you do start to understand them in an organic way, you become to realize the beauty of those statements.

In short, it's not about forcing yourself to believe in these infinities. It's about truly seeking and finding the truth of these infinities actually, do really, in fact exist. Oneness is our reality, not in just an esoteric sense, but even in a down to earth nitty-gritty sense. I could have cared less about oneness in the past. But in my seeking I've experienced this in ways that cannot be put into words. When Ra stated the infinity there is love in each moment, that's each and every moment, including 3D. We may not be able to appreciate it 100%, but we can appreciate it nonetheless in an genuine, organic, kind of way.

p.s. I apologize for the repetition as I'm trying to figure out how to convey my understanding in words.