Two souls permanently becoming one...

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder how people would react if the veil were suddenly dropped and everyone realized we are one, and that there is Unity.

[zenmaster]

I wonder how people would react if the veil were suddenly dropped and everyone realized we are one, and that there is Unity.

3rd density is the density with the veil. 4th density has no veil, but there is no realization of oneness. So veil suddenly dropped does not immediately mean sudden realization of Unity.

[AnthroHeart]

4D might have an idea of what oneness means, moreso than 3D. But knowing is different than experiencing.

[Adonai One]

[AnthroHeart]

Neat quote at the end.

[anagogy]

The point I was trying to make is that there is no need to merge with another soul because oneness is already the case, permanently.

Separation is just an appearance. Granted, it can be a very convincing appearance, but an appearance nonetheless. And to the extent you believe this, or not believe in separation, you can have conscious experiences of oneness, even in 3rd density.

Ra even alludes to this:

95.25 Ra: [...] Firstly, if there has been the pre-incarnative choice that, for instance, one shall not take life in the service of the cultural group, events shall fall in a protective manner. Secondly, if any entity is able to dwell completely in unity the only harm that may occur to it is the changing of the outward physical, yellow-ray vehicle into the more light-filled mind/body/spirit complex’s vehicle by the process of death. All other suffering and pain is as nothing to one such as this.

We may note that this perfect configuration of the mind, body, and spirit complexes, while within the third-density vehicle, is extraordinarily rare.

Ra notes that these conscious experiences of complete unity are rare. However, there is a continuum of intensity to these experiences and we are always having transient experiences of varying degrees of oneness throughout our day to day lives. That's what "love" is -- a flirting with oneness.

[AnthroHeart]

I'm amazed that those who experience oneness or enlightenment still wish to stay around, rather than departing. Ra says that those who achieve intelligent infinity can be harvested at any time in the cycle. So I'm amazed that the spiritual masters hang around as long as they do. Their service is incredible. If I opened to intelligent infinity, I'm not sure If I'd still want to hang around. But there is much suffering in the world, and hopefully by me holding a light vibration, can I help the suffering. I don't want to take it on myself, but I want to do whatever I can. I agree that a perfect configuration is extremely rare. I don't even know how to do it. I don't know how to get myself that balanced. Perhaps Mother Teresa was that balanced. She was the most serving person I can imagine. Carla is another example. I imagine she is pretty balanced, though she experiences substantial bodily distortions. I think my purpose is to be here with limitation, and still shine my light.

---

The point I was trying to make is that there is no need to merge with another soul because oneness is already the case, permanently.

Good point. It's hard to see this with the veil in place.

[reeay]

Maybe that sensation of being in love with someone is so profound it is experienced as feeling as merging/fusion of soul. Latwii did mention something about twin flames (extremely rare) and soulmates. Could strong blue-ray interaction (higher rays in general, I guess) make it seem like there is some sort of fusion experience?

Side-note: When people have romantic feelings they are producing lots of oxytocin, which helps people to bond... but this is only a temporary effect. I guess it's possible for people to have very similar personalities but then only time tells bc it takes a while to get to know self & other-self really, really well. Common themes with twin flame and soulmates is that it is a very challenging & rewarding.

When I work with a group or family, I can see them as one entity/organism if I look 'systemically' at them. I can include social institutions with groups or families as one organism, too. It's possible to see 1+ entities as one.

[zenmaster]

Folks an experience that merely suggests a notion of something or a vague potential is not remotely the same thing as an conscious awareness and actualization of being itself. In the latter there is complete understanding. The former is a derived shadow that evokes a feeling response which can only call upon that which is not yet integrated into consciousness. Even well beyond 3D actualization is 4D actualization where you may begin to live "in a godlike manner". But that is billions of years before unity. So fool yourselves all you want and respond in a snarky, "knowing" manner.

BTW, if you replace that which merely suggests a notion, with the thing itself you are just cheating yourself as far as "polarization".

[anagogy]

Folks an experience that merely suggests a notion of something or a vague potential is not remotely the same thing as an conscious awareness and actualization of being itself. In the latter there is complete understanding. The former is a derived shadow that evokes a feeling response which can only call upon that which is not yet integrated into consciousness. Even well beyond 3D actualization is 4D actualization where you may begin to live "in a godlike manner". But that is billions of years before unity.

I don't think anyone here is actually suggesting that a subjective experience of oneness in 3rd density is the *same* as a 7th density objective experience of oneness. But these subjective experiences are within our vibrational range of experience, whereas, as you said, the 7th density experience is a ways off.

In other words, this is what we have to work with at our level.

So fool yourselves all you want and respond in a snarky, "knowing" manner.

This is good advice...

Shame we *all* don't follow it more often.

[AnthroHeart]

I'm sure even Ra is infinitely curious about what 7D is like. Props to my social memory complex. I am curious as well.

[Adonai One]

...

In other words, this is what we have to work with at our level.

We don't have to do anything. Only we define our experience. There are no rules.

Even the view of "levels," "lessons," and "grades" are distortions, subjective.

I surely will not be humbled, rused, pressured into believing that I can only pursue things of this Earth. There is no god, no master to make it so.

[anagogy]

We don't have to do anything. Only we define our experience. There are no rules.

Then by all means: teleport me to the bottom of the ocean when you read this. There are rules.

Rules can be broken at the level they are created at. If you can't change the rules, then you haven't reached that level yet.

Even the view of "levels," "lessons," and "grades" are distortions, subjective.

No disagreement here. Everything in the finite universe is a distortion of oneness. A hierarchical illusion.

I surely will not be humbled, rused, pressured into believing that I can only pursue things of this Earth. There is no god, no master to make it so.

No one is forcing you to believe anything. By all means, keep ratcheting up the ladder of possibility until it doesn't ratchet any further for you.

My only advice is that you be honest with yourself.

Peace.

[Adonai One]

We don't have to do anything. Only we define our experience. There are no rules.

Then by all means: teleport me to the bottom of the ocean when you read this. There are rules.

Rules can be broken at the level they are created at. If you can't change the rules, then you haven't reached that level yet.

Heh, there is no rule preventing me from doing that, only a level of intention. While highly improbable, a mere man can theoretically acheive that level of power and teleport you to the bottom of that very ocean. Entities could try to stop such a man but in the end it's only a matter of the highest bid of power. Whoever has the greatest sway over creation wins. Such sway can be built by anyone who seeks it with enough desire.

These are not rules for there are truly no rules. We define them as such only by cooperating with them. Any man can leave these purported limits at any time. There are no limits. We only limit ourselves.

These universes and worlds of perceived order were created by entities like you and me; they are not ordained nor divine. Divinity is a farce.

---

...

A hierarchical illusion.

No hierarchy. Only classifications.

[anagogy]

Heh, there is no rule preventing me from doing that, only a level of intention. While highly improbable, a mere man can theoretically acheive that level of power and teleport you to the bottom of that very ocean. Entities could try to stop such a man but in the end it's only a matter of the highest bid of power. Whoever has the greatest sway over creation wins. Such sway can be built by anyone who seeks it with enough desire.

So the rule, barrier, or limit is the skill to be able to do that.

These are not rules for there are truly no rules. We define them as such only by cooperating with them. Any man can leave these purported limits at any time. There are no limits. We only limit ourselves.

All realities are consensus realities. If your personal reality diverges too greatly from the consensus reality, you leave that consensus reality. Your square peg will cease to fit into its round hole.

Could be lonely, unless others agree and abide by your rules, and join your reality.

These universes and worlds of perceived order were created by entities like you and me; they are not ordained nor divine. Divinity is a farce.

Guess it depends what you think "divinity" means. Some would consider unity to be divine. The absence of separation, is absolute harmony. That seems pretty divine, from my frame of reference.

No hierarchy. Only classifications.

What is the distinction?

[Adonai One]

Heh, there is no rule preventing me from doing that, only a level of intention. While highly improbable, a mere man can theoretically acheive that level of power and teleport you to the bottom of that very ocean. Entities could try to stop such a man but in the end it's only a matter of the highest bid of power. Whoever has the greatest sway over creation wins. Such sway can be built by anyone who seeks it with enough desire.

So the rule, barrier, or limit is the skill to be able to do that.

But a rule by the usual definition is something set by an authority. There is no authority here besides yourself. The only person defining such a "rule" is you.

These are not rules for there are truly no rules. We define them as such only by cooperating with them. Any man can leave these purported limits at any time. There are no limits. We only limit ourselves.

All realities are consensus realities. If your personal reality diverges too greatly from the consensus reality, you leave that consensus reality. Your square peg will cease to fit into its round hole.

Could be lonely, unless others agree and abide by your rules, and join your reality.

Square pegs innovate realities often through the latter approach. Transformation always causes something to fall away and many will attempt to spark such transformation.

The consensus reality is defined by every individual simultaneously, not just mob rule as in human governance. The latter is not true consensus for many shadows will remain.

These universes and worlds of perceived order were created by entities like you and me; they are not ordained nor divine. Divinity is a farce.

Guess it depends what you think "divinity" means. Some would consider unity to be divine. The absence of separation, is absolute harmony. That seems pretty divine, from my frame of reference.

Isn't seperation only an illusion? Isn't unity already here? To me, this reality is just as divine as everything else. If everything is divine, then divinity ceases to be a concept.

No hierarchy. Only classifications.

What is the distinction?

Hierarchy implies subordination.

[anagogy]

But a rule by the usual definition is something set by an authority. There is no authority here besides yourself. The only person defining such a "rule" is you.

Yes, so stop defining those rules, haha. Gravity I command you to turn off. I'm floating now. Weeeeeee!

In some broad sense, you're right, there is only one of us making rules. There can be only one. But the expanded part of "me" that makes the rules is not the portion that has an identity in this reality. That is just a very minute expression of the "expanded" me. If it were easy to jump into that broader perspective, everybody would be out wizarding up the place.

Square pegs innovate realities often through the latter approach. Transformation always causes something to fall away and many will attempt to spark such transformation.

The consensus reality is defined by every individual simultaneously, not just mob rule as in human governance. The latter is not true consensus for many shadows will remain.

We exist on "vibrational islands". Two people can be in the same area having completely different experiences. One person can experience severe poltergeist activity in a house, and another nonbeliever experience nothing.

Perception is interesting.

Hierarchy implies subordination.

All I know is "hierarchical" is how Ra has described the illusion.

So the higher density illusion has control over the lower density illusion.

[Adonai One]

All I know is "hierarchical" is how Ra has described the illusion.

So the higher density illusion has control over the lower density illusion.

Control isn't all too loving, heh. In fact, it's depolarizing away from unity.

They mean it in a more technical sense it seems:

5.2 Ra: ...Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships...

[Unbound]

Isn't seperation only an illusion? Isn't unity already here? To me, this reality is just as divine as everything else. If everything is divine, then divinity ceases to be a concept. 

By this logic, wouldn't everything be a "non-concept" (not even entirely sure what that means, because a concept is a construction of the mind so every idea or perceivable thought is conceptually experienced) because if the "everything is everything" is used to discount the concept of divinity, then the concept of mundanity is also discounted so it seems redundant.

Plus I am confused how everything can be something, and thus by all things being that something they cease to be that something, makes no sense. That's like saying because infinity or the Creator is everything and everything is infinity or the Creator, then nothing is infinity or the Creator. It is self-destructive in its position, in my mind.

[Hototo]

I'm pretty sure anyone can experience any density and any emotion inherant in any density at any time, assuming they know "where" they are aiming in time/space and that experincing "said feels" may result in disintegration (you feel too much and no longer want to feel and simply dissapear from reality)

[Unbound]

All I know is "hierarchical" is how Ra has described the illusion.

So the higher density illusion has control over the lower density illusion.

Control isn't all too loving, heh. In fact, it's depolarizing away from unity.

They mean it in a more technical sense it seems:

5.2 Ra: ...Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships...

I am curious, do you desire to control your experience/reality or to love it?

[Hototo]

I am curious, do you desire to control your experience/reality or to love it?

That is a very good question.


Might also be good to ponder on the size of yourself in relation to the universe and how that can define what you desire out of it, control or love.

[Unbound]

Well I am just curious because it seems like the kind of magic that Adonai One is usually oriented towards is the manifestation of one's own will through the shaping of intention, thereby controlling the experiential reality to attempt to conform it to one's will. It just makes me curious how he perceives that desire to manifest his will upon his reality.

[Adonai One]

All I know is "hierarchical" is how Ra has described the illusion.

So the higher density illusion has control over the lower density illusion.

Control isn't all too loving, heh. In fact, it's depolarizing away from unity.

They mean it in a more technical sense it seems:

5.2 Ra: ...Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships...

I am curious, do you desire to control your experience/reality or to love it?

We all exert some control in our lives, that is the nature of manifestation when we exert our will over our very bodies.

This resistance is only fully left in the early 7th densities. I love reality and the role I play within it.

---

Isn't seperation only an illusion? Isn't unity already here? To me, this reality is just as divine as everything else. If everything is divine, then divinity ceases to be a concept. 

By this logic, wouldn't everything be a "non-concept" (not even entirely sure what that means, because a concept is a construction of the mind so every idea or perceivable thought is conceptually experienced) because if the "everything is everything" is used to discount the concept of divinity, then the concept of mundanity is also discounted so it seems redundant.

Plus I am confused how everything can be something, and thus by all things being that something they cease to be that something, makes no sense. That's like saying because infinity or the Creator is everything and everything is infinity or the Creator, then nothing is infinity or the Creator. It is self-destructive in its position, in my mind.

Concepts seperate. In truth there is only one concept and that is infinity. Nothing is divine, nothing is redundant. It all just is.

You speak of paradox that is resolved with the realization of true simultaneity.

When all things are united at once, you get a blissful silence for the very existence of a single concept seperates it from all else. Creation itself resists but by that nature it unites.

Silence will come again. Indeed, it all "self-destructs." We're in a mortal universe, Tanner. I'm sorry you can't bear to see your identity go one of these days, haha.

"The Creator" fully realized is just another canvas, Tanner. A blank and silent canvas. We're the true creators here, Tanner, don't you see?

[AnthroHeart]

Is the blank and silent canvas the void? Does Creation start at the void?

[Aloysius]

If I may thrown in my two counterfeit cents:
Our ability to interpret concepts/states is limited by our stage of development in intellectual capacity/awareness/spirituality whatever you wanna call it. My own view of "all is one" has changed remarkably in the last few weeks and beyond measure in the last year (not saying I'm "highly developed" but just that these things change and are dependent on the individual). By holding so firmly to such absolutism you may be preventing yourself from accepting and learning new things. We are limited beings, we can experience the realm beyond our immediate limits but we can only process such experience through our limited understanding. To think that we have any more than a brief outline of the characteristics of 4th density let alone anything higher is unsafe ground, as the concepts have been presented in a way that is able to be processed through a 3rd density mind.
I think that Tanner does understand what you are trying to convey but is simply at a loss of why you hold such an opinion, personally though I think I can see why you would, but I don't hold the same opinion.

But back on topic: can two 3rd density souls permanently become one? If still within the parameters of 3rd density, no I really don't think so.

Edit: needed to add a sentence to make any of this make sense lol

[Unbound]

I think that Tanner does understand what you are trying to convey but is simply at a loss of why you hold such an opinion, personally though I think I can see why you would, but I don't hold the same opinion.

I do understand both what he is expressing, and I can see why he would hold the view that he has. While it seems he believes I am attempting to "escape my fate", such is both not the case, and also confusing to me in relation to the ideas he is expressing because if supposedly there are no rules, and we are the Creator and there is no other Creator other than ourselves then that is a limitation of infinity, a setting of boundaries and rules which he appears to express do not exist.

My confusion is not in regards to his opinion, that is clear to me, but rather the way in which he chooses to resolve the apparent paradoxes and contradictions that arise within his own ideologies. I fail to see how the opinion appears to be both absolute, but then makes exceptions any time there is a need to justify the position, yet those exceptions do not appear to be afforded the same liberty to others.

To you, Adonai One, I will say that I have no fear of loss, for what is lost in infinity? I have gone through myriads of identities, and am a different identity to some degree every day and in every moment, so I do not see why the idea of dissolution of identity is applied only to the end of the octave when I feel the identity and personality is actually dying and being reborn constantly in every moment, there is nothing to lose, there is only one. I feel that you believe I believe things that I do not.

I also fail to understand how, in an infinite universe, any concept or distortion could be deemed to be lesser than any other or how anything could be loss. I fail to see how the universe is "mortal" because I do not see unity as death but as absolute existence and while yes, I agree, perhaps in that moment there is only silence, perfect equilibrium, yet, is that moment not already here, present, as the Creator?

I do not understand how there can be infinity, yet the possibility of there being any Creator that is its own other self is destroyed but I suspect that is because of cultural and social discomforts with the idea of a "God". I wish to acknowledge absolutely all realities as they exist in the One, but to be honest, it seems like you only care to acknowledge your own because other realities are in conflict with what you appear to hold as your penultimate truth.

I do not understand why I, as Creator, am not afforded the same liberty of Creation to be aware of this or that manner of other self and view the universe as sacred and divine as a function of my own creative exploration of infinity and the self that we are as the Creator. I do not understand why you attempt to destroy my view instead of including it within infinity. Thus is my confusion.

That being said, back to the topic and actually rather in alignment with what I am saying here I do not believe there is any need to "merge" in the sense of the dissolution of soul identities because the identities themselves are self existent within themselves as aspects of infinity so, as many have said, I feel it makes more sense to fully realize the oneness that already is. Yes, there will be a merging of my identity with infinity at some point, when I so choose, and I will cease to be anything recognizable to this or any other octave, and even to myself, yet my existence will not be lost, the universe contains all things and nothing is ever lost. My thoughts do not lean me towards the avoidance of self dissolution nor the desire to escape, but rather a question within me: what is what is?

I seek to dwell in the mystery of infinity and that mystery is beautiful, astounding, profound and incomprehensible yet I know it is impossible to ever expound the mystery because to remove the mystery is to limit and stunt infinity itself. It is not possible for everything in infinity to be known, for knowingness is a limitation of perception.

In absolute being, there is also absolute mystery, and in that mystery there is the absolute truth of the eternal existence of the One Infinite Creator, for the Creator shall never cease to create and be creative, yet neither has it ever begun. I desire only to love the Creator in all of its infinite ways and so I can discount neither my own position or the position of any other, I can only seek the unity of our positions for are we all not included in the grand illusion that is creation?

[AnthroHeart]

My thoughts do not lean me towards the avoidance of self dissolution nor the desire to escape, but rather a question within me: what is what is?

I seek to dwell in the mystery of infinity and that mystery is beautiful, astounding, profound and incomprehensible yet I know it is impossible to ever expound the mystery because to remove the mystery is to limit and stunt infinity itself. It is not possible for everything in infinity to be known, for knowingness is a limitation of perception.

In absolute being, there is also absolute mystery, and in that mystery there is the absolute truth of the eternal existence of the One Infinite Creator, for the Creator shall never cease to create and be creative, yet neither has it ever begun. I desire only to love the Creator in all of its infinite ways and so I can discount neither my own position or the position of any other, I can only seek the unity of our positions for are we all not included in the grand illusion that is creation?

Is desiring to unify/merge with Creator a desire to escape? I don't know what merging with Creator entails besides loss of identity. But because Ra desires that, I can see it as a good thing. Ra still has a few million years to go if I recall correctly. Merging with Creator requires one to be so pure. I wonder if a whole social memory complex together merges with Creator as one entity. I love what you say about absolute being. Though Ra said that Creator doesn't actually create as much as experience itself. So joining Creator as one is a far away goal, but there is time in which it can happen. I think merging back with my social memory complex will be a thrill in itself. And infinitely more possible than trying to merge with Creator.

[Unbound]

In the words of another self that I am and we are:

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

These thoughts are echoed within me and for more reasons than mere resonance.

---

My thoughts do not lean me towards the avoidance of self dissolution nor the desire to escape, but rather a question within me: what is what is?

I seek to dwell in the mystery of infinity and that mystery is beautiful, astounding, profound and incomprehensible yet I know it is impossible to ever expound the mystery because to remove the mystery is to limit and stunt infinity itself. It is not possible for everything in infinity to be known, for knowingness is a limitation of perception.

In absolute being, there is also absolute mystery, and in that mystery there is the absolute truth of the eternal existence of the One Infinite Creator, for the Creator shall never cease to create and be creative, yet neither has it ever begun. I desire only to love the Creator in all of its infinite ways and so I can discount neither my own position or the position of any other, I can only seek the unity of our positions for are we all not included in the grand illusion that is creation?

Is desiring to unify/merge with Creator a desire to escape? I don't know what merging with Creator entails besides loss of identity. But because Ra desires that, I can see it as a good thing. Ra still has a few million years to go if I recall correctly. Merging with Creator requires one to be so pure. I wonder if a whole social memory complex together merges with Creator as one entity. I love what you say about absolute being. Though Ra said that Creator doesn't actually create as much as experience itself. So joining Creator as one is a far away goal, but there is time in which it can happen. I think merging back with my social memory complex will be a thrill in itself. And infinitely more possible than trying to merge with Creator.

Ah, you misunderstand me, by refering to escape I meant to attempt to escape merging with the Creator or cling to separation.

---

Also, yes you are right, Creator does not properly "create" but only experiences itself, but in that is implied an infinity of potential of experience of itself with a continuous, ever present mystery for is not the experience of the creator the exploration of its own mysteries as contained in that which it is, infinite?

Plus, Ra always refers to Intelligent Infinity, not merely infinity on its own and I think that is to be well noted. How can infinity be intelligent, what is the manner of its intelligence? This is a mystery I explore as that intelligence itself.

[zenmaster]

But a rule by the usual definition is something set by an authority. There is no authority here besides yourself. The only person defining such a "rule" is you.

Where "you", in 3rd density, is necessarily other selves. Therefore authorities abound. Be honest. You are included in the societal mind and that has been necessary for your development. Yes even as an authority, a guiding authority which helped you express some aspect of yourself. This is integral to your *actual* rather than imagined identity.

Appealing to infinite potential as if you had already consciously self-determined your actual being in that condition may be an amusing exercise but identification with that state will stifle progress.