Wherein Lies the Power of the Archetypes?

[Adonai One]

I wouldn't say they show the path so much as describe the assembly of the path, but I do not think they provide a path themselves, they are more like stations or way-points that one may choose to go to and from. Ra, I believ3, explicitly states that each archetype is also a thing in themselves.

It sounds like you are referring to the Tree of Life, my friend. It's becoming very clear to me why our discussions are never reconciled on this matter.

I see Archetype 1 as the globe and Freewill as the navigator... I believe all of the archetypes spawn in every infestimal moment. I do not see stations although each archetype can offer stations in regards to polarity.

---

What is a spiritual gain? What is a material gain?

[michael430]

[deleted]

[Spaced]

edit: never mind, I don't want to get involved

[Unbound]

You do realize that in addition to the 10 stations/sephiroth (and one "shadow" sephiroth) on the Tree of Life there are 22 pathways that relate all of the stations? These have been matched with the Hebrew alphabet, which is another archetypical system of thought.

Also, as Michael430 has said, I believe the two come from the same body of teachings and are really different "deliveries" of the same knowledge.

I refer to them as stations in the sense of being things in themselves. I can certainly choose to work with each one individually if I so choose.

Plus, Ra made it pretty clear that at one point there were only 9 archetypes and over time more were developed, so how could they all be in resonance at all times? Sure, they all exist in every moment, I don't think there is any dispute about that, but that doesn't mean one is resonating with all of them in every moment, there is no pathway from the first to the last, they are all a complex of interactive parts, all together as a complex of the archetypical mind.

[Adonai One]

The Tree of Life has a left-hand, right-hand thing going for it with twenty-two rails going through them. The archetypes try to build that into each card.

[Unbound]

As for spiritual and material gains, that all comes down to perception I suppose. I would call a spiritual gain a harmonization within the self, the progress of the process of balancing. I would call a material gain the obtaining of worldly experiences in relation to the environment of the planet.

I did not say one could not gain materially and also gain spiritually, or vice versa, only that I distinguish between the two in terms of perceptual experience.

---

The Tree of Life has a left-hand, right-hand thing going for it with twenty-two rails going through them. The archetypes try to build that into each card.

My Tarot deck actually has paths of the Tree of Life matched and part of the image of each of the major arcana. It is not a matter of cutting out or forgetting the other parts of the tree, but simply a matter of focus.

[Adonai One]

We do indeed resonate with all of them. The lesson was never to resonate with all of them but rather applying our will more effectively through them in every moment.

---

We do not lose focus of an archetype. We simple lose focus of our will.

---

As for spiritual and material gains, that all comes down to perception I suppose. I would call a spiritual gain a harmonization within the self, the progress of the process of balancing. I would call a material gain the obtaining of worldly experiences in relation to the environment of the planet.

Can one exist without the other?

[Unbound]

I am not really sure where you're going with this now... the dominance of the will seems to be the only thing of import to you. Yes, all the archetypes are available for resonance, but only when we reflect them is there full resonance, otherwise they are as strings of an instrument not yet made to vibrate in resonance with the self.

---

Aha They are both existent, of course, but if you mean that one cannot occur without the other I suppose that is true to an extent, however the differentiation I would make is that material gain can sometimes actually cause more disharmony in the self and so a spiritual gain would not be constituted as such, although catalyst for the potential for spiritual gain is, of course, thus available.

My point was not on the value of either spiritual or material gain, that was not the original point which was about power. Do I think all material activities result in spiritual gain and increase of spiritual power? No, but they can increase material power.

Although perhaps I should change my wording to say social power, rather than material power.

[Adonai One]

We are our choices. It begins and ends with a choice. Every individual archetype is nothing without will. In fact, the archetypes are useless without it.

It's been a pleasure.

[Unbound]

Quite simply, I see manipulation as one outlet or way of manifesting power, but it is not the most "pure" I suppose, as in my mind the purest power is the raw awareness of consciousness. Knowledge is meaningless without awareness.

[Adonai One]

I guess you see power as only reaching the state of nirvana, becoming the creator? What do we do here, Tanner? Are we not creating as we speak? Is not what we are doing worthy of the same divinity?

Making money and doing "material stuff" is expanding conciousness.

[Unbound]

We are our choices. It begins and ends with a choice. Every individual archetype is nothing without will. In fact, the archetypes are useless without it.

It's been a pleasure.

So, you do not believe the archetypes are "things in themselves", then?

Sure confuses me, as I thought the original archetypes were developed before the experiments in total free will. The early Logoi which lacked free will foundations still made use of them, of course, that doesn't mean there was no will, just not in the way I think you refer to individual will.

[Adonai One]

They are things in themselves but they are also united. I am quite honestly flabbergasted because I have no idea what you are doing with them and how you are applying them in your life.

I'm developing my custom system of magic entirely on the backs of these cards... and the way you are describing them makes them useless even in that context.

[Unbound]

I didn't say anything about nirvana, or needing to become one with the Creator, that is not the point. To suggest that all activities only expand consciousness and none exist which contract consciousness is, to me, strangely one-sided for a polarized experience, as Id think individual should have the right to not "progress" if they so choose.

I said power is awareness. I do not see power as being a function of manipulation, but of presence. Manipulation may happen as a result of power, but it is not the cause of power.

You are somewhat detracting from the initial point here. I do not deem any activity of greater value than any other, that comes down to the perception and seeking of each individual. There are many articulate ways of developing consciousness that work using all manners of different configurations of the world, so I am not in disagreement that the material and spiritual are absolutely intertwined, my point was on what is power, not the appropriate use of or methods of gaining that power.

---

I apply them in two ways, one as a system for reflection upon and thus apprehension of the self through the archetypical mind and thus understanding the aspects or "characters" through which mind expresses itself in this particular field of experience, which I believe is the same way you are using them.

The second is through invocation and the actual assumption of those archetypical personalities within my own consciousness and thus experiencing the different aspects of the archetypical mind as directly as possible through the discipline of my own personality done through the reshaping and examination as such through the interaction with the archetypes as "real" things.

Thus, you could say I use them as a way to know the possibilities of experience through the many facets of possible personality and identity to thus increase my total awareness of "what is".

---

Do you know the Riddle of Steel?

[Ankh]

Tarot and Tree of Life are very, very new concepts to me. But I thought they were the same thing and could be understood identically?

They are different systems of understanding Archetypes of this sub-logos, or the Sun, under which care we are.

In this way, they are the "same".

[Ludi]

Power has it's price

[Sagittarius]

I love the conversation flow back and forth between you Adonai and Tanner proves very useful for myself hehe.

[Fastidious Emanations]

92.11
Ra: I am Ra. Some untangling may be needed. As the mind/body/spirit complex which has not yet reached the point of the conscious awareness of the process of evolution prepares for incarnation it has programmed for it a less than complete, that is to say a partially randomized, system of learnings. The amount of randomness of potential catalyst is proportional to the newness of the mind/body/spirit complex to third density. This, then, becomes a portion of that which you may call a potential for incarnational experience. This is indeed carried within that portion of the mind which is of the deep mind, the architecture of which may be envisioned as being represented by that concept complex known as the Potentiator.

It is not in the archetypical mind of an entity that the potential for incarnational experience resides but in the mind/body/spirit complex’s insertion, shall we say, into the energy web of the physical vehicle and the chosen planetary environment. However, to more deeply articulate this portion of the mind/body/spirit complex’s beingness this archetype, the Potentiator of the Mind, may be evoked with profit to the student of its own evolution.