Spiritualism is not about transcending reality.

[Adonai One]

It's about loving it. It's about seeing the spirit that is in the grime, the drudgery and agony. It's about being the infinity in all things.

Not leaving them behind in some pursuit of becoming infinity or "god." Not pursuing some higher density for the sake of acension alone. It's about already being a spirit. One becomes infinity when they realize it within their current paradigm.

Just a friendly reminder.

I just really wish to vent against all of the claims and clawing towards the "divine." The divine doesn't exist because it is already here. There is no heaven for it is already here. There is nothing sacred in this world for all things are sacred. There is nothing to ascend to for there is nothing higher than another. All things are truly one.

[Hototo]

Somehow this felt like it would be suitable here.

[Unbound]

How boring, I want to travel up mountains, what is life with no journey?

---

Is it not perfectly acceptable to desire transcendance? Why would the Creator not also make that a reality for those consciousnesses who wish to experience it?

---

I am confused, also, because you say these things are 'here' but they dont exist. How can they be here unless they exist?

[Adonai One]

"What Stirner says is a word, a thought, a concept; what he means is no word, no thought, no concept. What he says is not what is meant, and what he means is unsayable."

— Max Stirner, Stirner's Critics

A journey is not its end but what it is. Trancensdence is part of the journey but it is not the whole journey.

Nothing cannot exist for it is everything. I only wish to preach that all is one and that nothing can be overcome through illusory hedonism.

The desire for a "heaven" and an "ascension" is usually accompanied with a varying contempt for our current state of being. I only wish to make this clear.

[Unbound]

Really? According to whom? I have met many wondrous people who seek with such faith that they have completely absolved themselves of any such hatred or discomfort with their bodily existence and yet still tirelessly explore and expand their awareness with the knowledge that through vibrational, energetic circulation the body can be made in to pure energy producing an entire host of experiences astounding and unique in themselves, no less than any other.

That is just how I feel, anyways aha

---

Also, how can a journey have an end? When does time end? I have been to the end of time, and I can tell you there isn't much, mostly a few dogs and some nachos with mexican music playing from nowhere.

[Adonai One]

Really? According to whom? I have met many wondrous people who seek with such faith that they have completely absolved themselves of any such hatred or discomfort with their bodily existence and yet still tirelessly explore and expand their awareness with the knowledge that through vibrational, energetic circulation the body can be made in to pure energy producing an entire host of experiences astounding and unique in themselves, no less than any other.

That is just how I feel, anyways aha

---

Also, how can a journey have an end? When does time end? I have been to the end of time, and I can tell you there isn't much, mostly a few dogs and some nachos with mexican music playing from nowhere.

I wish to make clear that one can have a great love for understanding, evolution and enlightenment and that will most certainly be accompanied with a love for their current existence. This I agree with in the upmost degree.

But when one strives for something "higher" out of rejection for what they percieve as "lower", their idea of "higher" will never be fully attained until all is realized as one.

Indeed a journey never ends, it simply changes.

Also, lol.

---

Additionally, I am of the persuasion that infinity equals zero, that all equals nothing. This will perhaps make some things clear. Of course "nothing" is the deceptive counterpart of the mix.

[Unbound]

Well, sure, but if one spends all their time thinking of one or the other there will naturally be an imbalance or distortion within the awareness of this one. Although, this is acceptable, however, it is possible for individuals to be unable to pass beyond certain states of awareness if there is no integration of the upper and the power of the lower. Unity, which is field, and force, which is core. The point must be in the circle, for there is a center even if it is only implied, and yet its implication was there long before the circle was ever inscribed around it.

Wheels within wheels.

[Adonai One]

I am sure you are aware that further imbalance is what brings us to balance in the first place. There are even what many would consider gods that have not yet perceptually united with the creator. Distorion is inherent. There is no man among us on this planet who is completely balanced for he would not act, for action is driven by imbalance, a desire to destroy the canvases within our illusion with all kinds of paints.

So, yes, of course there will be imbalance if one ponders one state or another. That is nature. What state would you consider virtuous?

[Unbound]

/sigh

I lost the reply I had been writing, frustrating because I was in the zone ahaha

Perhaps I will approach more simply. Have you heard of Jacob's Ladder?

On a ladder, no rung is any more important than any other, yet there is still no less the movement from one state to the next and back. What is key to realize is that unity does not mean SAMENESS. Just because all states are unified doesn't mean they are in any way the same, nor that they are all easily accessible.

Higher and lower can be interpreted in a way that is without the judgement of better or worse, of superior and inferior. Do we pit mud against water, telling the water it is incomplete because it lacks unity with dirt, or telling the mud that it is impure?

Yet, there are are plants and creatures which grow in both mud and water, life exists in both. However, could life have evolved to where it is if there was only mud? Water offers a service to a wider circle of consciousness through its moisturizing efforts.

I do not mean to suggest a doctrine of purity or any such thing, but simply express functionality of states. It is not functional just in terms of ways it may be used and ways it uses itself, but I also express function geometrically or like a puzzle piece, or part in the body.

I also speak of refinement which is an existent reality, and is the core of the endeavour of the alchemist. The realization that all states are equal in terms of being states, but all states are not all equal in terms of awareness.

Yes, a state is a state is a state, and the universe will not discriminate whatever state you wish to distort yourself in to as Ra might put it. However, that in no way means that every state will yield the same awareness of experience, nor that every state is immediately available to everyone, this is process.

If there was no progress to be made, then there would be no process. Yes, 'everything is here', but there is still very much the work and endeavour of observing and experiencing all that is here and that is a process. So, while there is no comparison in terms of better or worse, a person is capable and allowed to increase their vibration through geometric reconfiguration of the field or 'crystallization' thereby allowing a greater harmonic to occur in the field and thus arises a higher vibratory spectrum of awareness to be explored. Those who do not work to harmonize their field will experience no new states of consciousness and will instead continue in the same state they have been in.

This is samsara, the cycle of darkness and the entrapment of incarnation, for incarnation and physical experience is a state itself, and so there is the natural assumption that this state may be processed and progressed out of in to a new state.

I acknowledge and accept the reality which you perceived and your description of it, it is perfectly valid. However, I would only make addition by adding more possibilities of reality to thus "flesh out" infinity by expressing my own perspective. Two minds are better than one when it comes to gaining perspective, no?

---

Also, I strive for a state which includes all, so perhaps that is what I see as a virtuous state but really I see virtues as being a product of the process and progression in to higher vibratory awareness. There are virtues deemed so by each polarity and so each may gain as thus, but it does seem that there is a compassion by which unity is innately informed and so I seek compassionate states.

The void is void of itself. There is no nothing, so to say there is nothing which one may progress in to is to discount everything. To say the divine is in all things and yet does not exist is a doctrine of nothingness, yet, there is no nothingness because there is no nothing. Nothing however, still exists, because it is an idea, yet what is the idea behind nothingness?

Nothing here means something different depending on the state of 'here'. Yet, even if you experienced a state of nothingness, or went in to nothingness, how would you know? There would be nothing to suggest the experience had even happened, no reflection upon the self and so it would be as if no such thing had ever occured, it would not produce any change.

This is why I do not view anything in terms of being nothing, because there is nothing in nothing, so nothing is nothing. So, I prefer to bring my attention to the fact that there IS something, and that something is infinite and I, at this point, and any other, have only some degree or ratio of awareness of this something. In time, and with effort, perhaps I will realize the 360 degrees of this circle and move on to the next circle with its own degrees of awareness and freedom, this is what I call process, and process is what I am and what we all are.

[Adonai One]

/sigh

I lost the reply I had been writing, frustrating because I was in the zone ahaha

Perhaps I will approach more simply. Have you heard of Jacob's Ladder?

On a ladder, no rung is any more important than any other, yet there is still no less the movement from one state to the next and back. What is key to realize is that unity does not mean SAMENESS. Just because all states are unified doesn't mean they are in any way the same, nor that they are all easily accessible.

Higher and lower can be interpreted in a way that is without the judgement of better or worse, of superior and inferior. Do we pit mud against water, telling the water it is incomplete because it lacks unity with dirt, or telling the mud that it is impure?

Yes, for the concepts of higher and lower are within the unity. They are not transcended but I still hold them as another part of the illusion which is reality.

However, ease-of-access is all that defines what we consider "divine." It's a far-reaching goal all until we get there. This does not impress me. It does not make reality all the more different for me than what is in front of me.

While things may change, they still remain the same.

Yes, even the concepts of seperation are within unity. This I agree with.

Yet, there are are plants and creatures which grow in both mud and water, life exists in both. However, could life have evolved to where it is if there was only mud? Water offers a service to a wider circle of consciousness through its moisturizing efforts.

Scientifically, yes. We've all risen from primordial oozes and muds. The Ra Material at least does not say that we were shaped by directly conciousess hand. We rose from chaos. I fail to see the argument here. You seem to arguing for some divinity but all played a part.

I do not mean to suggest a doctrine of purity or any such thing, but simply express functionality of states. It is not functional just in terms of ways it may be used and ways it uses itself, but I also express function geometrically or like a puzzle piece, or part in the body.

I also speak of refinement which is an existent reality, and is the core of the endeavour of the alchemist. The realization that all states are equal in terms of being states, but all states are not all equal in terms of awareness.

However, the divinity we apply to higher awareness is abstractly contrived. Higher awareness is of equal value to lower awareness.

Yes, a state is a state is a state, and the universe will not discriminate whatever state you wish to distort yourself in to as Ra might put it. However, that in no way means that every state will yield the same awareness of experience, nor that every state is immediately available to everyone, this is process.

But is not the value of experience subjective? Is not experience dependent on the perception of the individual? Is any percieved divinity or exaltation only a function of an individual's perspective? Does a hotdog taste the same to all people?

Yes, each state may not be available to all people but that does not mean it is neccessarily divine to all.

If there was no progress to be made, then there would be no process. Yes, 'everything is here', but there is still very much the work and endeavour of observing and experiencing all that is here and that is a process. So, while there is no comparison in terms of better or worse, a person is capable and allowed to increase their vibration through geometric reconfiguration of the field or 'crystallization' thereby allowing a greater harmonic to occur in the field and thus arises a higher vibratory spectrum of awareness to be explored. Those who do not work to harmonize their field will experience no new states of consciousness and will instead continue in the same state they have been in.

The progress will be made regardless if its made clear to the individual or not. That is the nature of this reality. This is nothing intrinsic about progress unless such is value. Value is of the beholder.

It is impossible not to imbalance and then further balance yourself in this reality. It may be made slower or faster but it will be done nonetheless. Any value placed on this speed is abstractly contrived, subjective.

This is samsara, the cycle of darkness and the entrapment of incarnation, for incarnation and physical experience is a state itself, and so there is the natural assumption that this state may be processed and progressed out of in to a new state.

I acknowledge and accept the reality which you perceived and your description of it, it is perfectly valid. However, I would only make addition by adding more possibilities of reality to thus "flesh out" infinity by expressing my own perspective. Two minds are better than one when it comes to gaining perspective, no?

Fully agreed. Idealism has its place for those who value it. I choose existentialism and choose to see value in the raw, illusionary experience.

I suggest you compare philosophers such as Hegel to my favorites such as Nietszche and Stirner. This will quantify this debate. Really they are both sides to the same coin. My side is a tad bit darker, haha.

They may be analogous to the polarities.

Also, I strive for a state which includes all, so perhaps that is what I see as a virtuous state but really I see virtues as being a product of the process and progression in to higher vibratory awareness. There are virtues deemed so by each polarity and so each may gain as thus, but it does seem that there is a compassion by which unity is innately informed and so I seek compassionate states.

The void is void of itself. There is no nothing, so to say there is nothing which one may progress in to is to discount everything. To say the divine is in all things and yet does not exist is a doctrine of nothingness, yet, there is no nothingness because there is no nothing. Nothing however, still exists, because it is an idea, yet what is the idea behind nothingness?

That all is inherently perfect as it stands. I hope to invoke that the moment is glamorous and need not be overcome but accompanied by the same infinite conception that brought it here in the first place.

I don't believe in virtue for all is virtuous.

Nothing here means something different depending on the state of 'here'. Yet, even if you experienced a state of nothingness, or went in to nothingness, how would you know? There would be nothing to suggest the experience had even happened, no reflection upon the self and so it would be as if no such thing had ever occured, it would not produce any change.

This is why I do not view anything in terms of being nothing, because there is nothing in nothing, so nothing is nothing. So, I prefer to bring my attention to the fact that there IS something, and that something is infinite and I, at this point, and any other, have only some degree or ratio of awareness of this something. In time, and with effort, perhaps I will realize the 360 degrees of this circle and move on to the next circle with its own degrees of awareness and freedom, this is what I call process, and process is what I am and what we all are.

There is no true nothing so if we to delve into nothing we would be right where we stand. Nothing would happen. Delving into nothingness is the same as delving into infinity.

I believe that all exploration has been done, is done and will be done. So I do not place any evolution over my current state.

Thy will shall be done, regardless.

I hope this adequately explains some things.

[spero]

Sometimes i think we exist to some extent across all the densities simultaneously but its only when we get to mid-6D and above that we truly appreciate and perceive the simultaneity and take on the role of our higher selves. By comparison 3D perception (post-veiling) is perhaps one of the most limited viewpoints since it inherently hides the divine nature of reality. Part of the process of 3D evolution is activation and utilisation of the spirit complex which eventually allows an entity to come into greater awareness of this inherent divinity. The desire to remove the veil and "clawing towards the divine" is part of the reason why the veil was instituted, to hide the divine nature of reality and make it appear a "drudgery and agony" to propel individuals to seek out this divinity. You arn't wrong Adonai that "it's about seeing the spirit that is in the grime", but i think this is the end result of a process, which (ironically) enables a person to no longer need the lessons 3d environments have to offer.

[Adonai One]

Sometimes i think we exist to some extent across all the densities simultaneously but its only when we get to mid-6D and above that we truly appreciate and perceive the simultaneity and take on the role of our higher selves. By comparison 3D perception (post-veiling) is perhaps one of the most limited viewpoints since it inherently hides the divine nature of reality. Part of the process of 3D evolution is activation and utilisation of the spirit complex which eventually allows an entity to come into greater awareness of this inherent divinity. The desire to remove the veil and "clawing towards the divine" is part of the reason why the veil was instituted, to hide the divine nature of reality and make it appear a "drudgery and agony" to propel individuals to seek out this divinity. You arn't wrong Adonai that "it's about seeing the spirit that is in the grime", but i think this is the end result of a process, which (ironically) enables a person to no longer need the lessons 3d environments have to offer.

You have made things very clear. So it's an argument of means and ends. I just wish to emphasize on the means giving the end meaning. The very acknowledgement of the means having independent importance may undermine the ends in some perceptions, while not neccessarily so.

[spero]

You have made things very clear. So it's an argument of means and ends. I just wish to emphasize on the means giving the end meaning. The very acknowledgement of the means having independent importance may undermine the ends in some perceptions, while not neccessarily so.

Your statement is a little hard to follow. i tried to respond but just got confused lol. could u phrase it a little differently please

[Adonai One]

You have made things very clear. So it's an argument of means and ends. I just wish to emphasize on the means giving the end meaning. The very acknowledgement of the means having independent importance may undermine the ends in some perceptions, while not neccessarily so.

Your statement is a little hard to follow. i tried to respond but just got confused lol. could u phrase it a little differently please

My point is to emphasize the importance of the journey not because of its goals but rather the sights, sounds and existence of the journey. It seems one may percieve this as undermining the goal.

[Plenum]

My point is to emphasize the importance of the journey not because of its goals but rather the sights, sounds and existence of the journey. It seems one may percieve this as undermining the goal.

the smells too, the smells are most intriguing on this journey. I think I will miss the smells the most when all is said and done

[Unbound]

There is little more to be said, perhaps. So why are we all still here, on this forum, babbling away about theoretical nonsense? Get out in to the world and FACE YOURSELF.

[Plenum]

There is little more to be said, perhaps. So why are we all still here, on this forum, babbling away about theoretical nonsense? Get out in to the world and FACE YOURSELF.

lol. well spoken ... to oneself.

you will find your blockages most clearly in the 'real world'.

yellow ray being the most evident.

glad you have got yourself out of the house and into a job.

it is not all slavery; but opportunity for greater (and more present) interaction.

hiding in one's house reading occult books makes no-one a master.

[Unbound]

Can you hide in the forest or on a mountain and become a master? Hehe

[Adonai One]

hiding in one's house reading occult books makes no-one a master.

Such monastic life can have rewards if done with proper discipline and application. Otherwise, you might as well be sitting at home reading Reddit all day. My experience so far has been more of the latter.

[Melissa]

Can you hide in the forest or on a mountain and become a master? Hehe

Of course.

[Adonai One]

Can you hide in the forest or on a mountain and become a master? Hehe

Will you learn/teach after your period of study and seclusion? This is what makes such an experience catalysing.

[Unbound]

When I go in to the forest I learn/teach and teach/learn with the trees, the plants, and the creatures. I share with them what I am and they in turn share with me.

[Adonai One]

When I go in to the forest I learn/teach and teach/learn with the trees, the plants, and the creatures. I share with them what I am and they in turn share with me.

It seems I have forgotten that card 10, the catalyst of the body is far more than people but all life. Perceptive, my friend.

[Unbound]

/bow

Thank you, thank you ahaha