1981.02.11 - Book 1, Session 23 - Pyramids

[Lavazza]

Hello once again everyone. I have the urge to put this confusion of mine to rest once and for all (if possible). In my reading (proper) of the Law of One books I am running across many small (and some not so small) bits of transitory material. The construction date of the pyramids in Egypt is something that struck me as interesting when I first heard about TLOO last September.

We are those of the Confederation who eleven thousand of your years ago came to two of your planetary cultures which were at that time closely in touch with the creation of the one Creator. It was our naive belief that we could teach/learn by direct contact and that the free will distortions of individual feeling or personality were in no danger. We had no thought of their being disturbed, as these cultures were already closely aligned with an all-embracing belief in the live-ness or consciousness of all. We came and were welcomed by the peoples whom we wished to serve. We attempted to aid them in technical ways having to do with the healing of mind/body/spirit complex distortions through the use of the crystal, appropriate to the distortion, placed within a certain appropriate series of ratios of time/space material. Thus were the pyramids created.

The first, the Great Pyramid, was formed approximately 6,000 of your years ago. Then, in sequence, after this performing by thought of the building or architecture of the Great Pyramid using the more, shall we say, local or earthly material rather than thought-form material to build other pyramidal structures. This continued for approximately 1,500 of your years.

The above statements come from two different sessions within Book 1. At first glance they appear to be at odds with one another (11,000 years ago vs. 6000 years ago). But in reading carefully it looks like Ra indicated that they first appeared to the Egyptians 11,000 years ago, and then finally the construction of the pyramids happened 6000 years ago. Is this the commonly accepted assumption, or have I mis-read?

On the subject of pyramids, radiocarbon dating of organic material found within the mortar between pyramid blocks posits that the age of the pyramids are nearer to 4500 years old (approximately 2500BC). (see source, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/exp...wold2.html).

Edgar Cayce also placed the age of the pyramids around 10,500 years old, and as some of the more seasoned members are probably aware, the Cayce foundation funded a few research teams to do the above mentioned scientific research.

Is it even worth while attempting to rectify the information that Ra gave us with what scientists are able to discern with their instruments? Until I had run across this information again in the book, I had decided not to do so. But since we have a good group here to discuss such things, I figure why not, even if the agreed upon answer is a resounding 'No!'

Allow me to offer some short speculation before the flood of responses. Perhaps a 1500 year difference (between 6000 and 4500 years ago) is not such a grand miscalculation when speaking on a cosmic scale. Certainly I would not be too perturbed to learn that Atlantis sank 12,500 years ago instead of 11,000 years ago. Or that the heads on Easter island were constructed 58,500 years ago instead of 60,000 years ago.

Or, perhaps, the pyramid that was carbon dated happened to be the last of which were created, which would line up exactly with the dates Ra gave.

Anyone care to take a dip in the water? It's not too cold, I promise...

[ayadew]

Hello Lavazza. Thank you for your post...

Ra has been wrong on other occasions regarding time, which they admit. They don't seem to care much about it. I wouldn't bother keep much track of a few thousand years if I was a some millions years old hehe.

'Time' in general is a strange subject, 1 year being deducted from the movement of the sun and earth. Ra has a hard time discering one individual from another I remember, for they live in complete unification of all things. Thus they may also have problems discering the relative 'distance' from earth and the sun, and thus understanding 'time' as we see it.
Just a theory...

[Lavazza]

Ra has been wrong on other occasions regarding time, which they admit. They don't seem to care much about it. I wouldn't bother keep much track of a few thousand years if I was a some millions years old hehe.

Thank you Ayadew! I've been thinking on your comment for a few days and I agree it makes sense. As seeming confirmation of this, I read this last night:

Questioner: So I should change that third to fourth or green?

Ra: This is correct. Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

I'm beginning to ignore earth specifics from TLOO more and more as I read through the books and instead focusing on the philosophy. But I'm happy at any rate that I was able to explain the 6000 vs. 4500 pyramid age out to myself True knowing will come later I guess!

[Brittany]

The beings I've had experiences with seem to have little concept of time or even individuality. To them it isn't important because they realize how synchronized the world really is. Why do we feel the need to chop up time into little segments and form so many classes to shuffle living things into? In their eyes it's all the same in the end. We're all made out of the same stuff. The past, the future, the present, it's irrelevant. I'll admit my human mind has a hard time wrapping around it, but I think to them a millenium isn't such a long time. It's more like saying 'give or take a few seconds.'

[sos]

I'm very glad for the post on the time discrepancies. I've had a difficult time reconciling it myself. I read Cayce's material for many years before I found The Ra Material in the early '80s. I saw the discrepancies right away, and after many years I still don't know what to make of it. It's equally baffling to accept that the Great Pyramid appeared overnight. Surely this would have created a metaphorical shock wave that would have reverberated all the way to the present day. If Ra was trying to preserve our free will, it seems that they succeeded fairly well. The big mystery to me though is that Cayce said the Great Pyramid was constructed 11000 years ago and took 100 years to build. How can that be squared with Ra's 6000 years (which is a discrepancy from mainstream archaeology's 4500 years) and appearing overnight? I know that cause and effect linear time is much less real to Ra than to us, but Ra was so careful in almost all communicatuions even to the point of quibbling over word nuances. A time discrepancy of this magnitude would be troubling to me. I would like to see other thoughts.

[kylissa]

"23.8 Questioner: When you started building the pyramid at Giza using thought, were you at that time in contact with incarnate Egyptians and did they observe this building?

Ra: I am Ra. At that time we were not in close contact with incarnate entities upon your plane. We were responding to a general calling of sufficient energy in that particular location to merit action. We sent thoughts to all who were seeking our information.

The appearance of the pyramid was a matter of tremendous surprise. However, it was carefully designed to coincide with the incarnation of one known as a great architect. This entity was later made into a deity, in part due to this occurrence."

I think this might refer to Imhotep who was from around 5000 y/a. He was a mortal who was deified and worshipped as a god of peace, also a master architect and healer. Associated with the gods Ra and Hathor. Ra isn't specific about the name of this architect/deity though... if 6000 y/a was right we would be in dynasty 0 which is before the unification of Egypt and there isn't much specific info about this time, only legends and myths. Imhotep corresponds to Joseph (who came after Abraham.) Joseph was the seer who interpreted dreams found in the Old Testament. ahhh Ra give us more transient info! :>

[Lavazza]

I'm very glad for the post on the time discrepancies. I've had a difficult time reconciling it myself. I read Cayce's material for many years before I found The Ra Material in the early '80s. I saw the discrepancies right away, and after many years I still don't know what to make of it. It's equally baffling to accept that the Great Pyramid appeared overnight. Surely this would have created a metaphorical shock wave that would have reverberated all the way to the present day. If Ra was trying to preserve our free will, it seems that they succeeded fairly well. The big mystery to me though is that Cayce said the Great Pyramid was constructed 11000 years ago and took 100 years to build. How can that be squared with Ra's 6000 years (which is a discrepancy from mainstream archaeology's 4500 years) and appearing overnight? I know that cause and effect linear time is much less real to Ra than to us, but Ra was so careful in almost all communicatuions even to the point of quibbling over word nuances. A time discrepancy of this magnitude would be troubling to me. I would like to see other thoughts.

Hello Sos,

Indeed I am still equally baffled by many aspects of the appearance of the pyramids. There are many conflicting things about what Ra, Cayce and others have spoken of so that by this point there is almost no clear indicator. Add to this the information that science has given us in the last couple of years and you have a real problem on your hands!

Consider... http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html
I would be prepared to discount all of this article were it nor for the infarred image at the bottom which gives the theory strong likelihood of being correct, in my opinion.

These problem became so much of a catalyst for me in fact, that it eventually led me to an epiphany in how I approach the Ra material, and esoteric material in general. I no longer believe any source is completely correct. Is it possible the internal ramp mechanism explained in the above paragraph was a part of Ra's design in order to preserve our freewill? Is it possible the great pyramid appeared overnight? Well, yes, it is possible. Do I believe that? Er, well. No, not exactly. This begs the question, if some things Ra says can be wrong, could everything he says be wrong? Sure, that's possible too. But, I also don't believe this.

You see, the Pyramids have helped me to realize that my true path of spiritual wisdom can never come from one source. It will always be a hodgepodge of all spiritual information I find resonance with. And when it comes to transient information, I'll always leave the door open for science to have a say.

[3D Sunset]

I think this might refer to Imhotep who was from around 5000 y/a. He was a mortal who was deified and worshipped as a god of peace, also a master architect and healer. Associated with the gods Ra and Hathor. Ra isn't specific about the name of this architect/deity though... if 6000 y/a was right we would be in dynasty 0 which is before the unification of Egypt and there isn't much specific info about this time, only legends and myths. Imhotep corresponds to Joseph (who came after Abraham.) Joseph was the seer who interpreted dreams found in the Old Testament. ahhh Ra give us more transitory info! :>

On the contrary, a little farther in the same session the following exchange takes place:

Questioner: What name did they give this deity?

Ra: I am Ra. This deity had the sound vibration complex, “Imhotep.”

So you are correct about to whom Ra refers. This seems to further cloud the subject at hand though, because the age of Imhotep is also generally accepted as roughly 4,600 years ago. The good news is that this is consistent with the generally accepted age of the Great Pyramid (thus adding credence to Ra's statement). The bad news obviously is that we still seem to be missing around 1,400 years from Ra's stated time of completion of 6,000 years ago.

For what it's worth however, even though this discrepancy does not concern me, I tend to think that there is something more to it than simply Ra's problem mapping events onto our historical calendar. Is the past, perhaps, as malleable as the future?

For now though, I am content to let it remain as a mystery.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Monica]

Is the past, perhaps, as malleable as the future?

This could explain the discrepancies.

[kylissa]

On the contrary, a little farther in the same session the following exchange takes place:

Questioner: What name did they give this deity?

Ra: I am Ra. This deity had the sound vibration complex, “Imhotep.”

So you are correct about to whom Ra refers. This seems to further cloud the subject at hand though, because the age of Imhotep is also generally accepted as roughly 4,600 years ago. The good news is that this is consistent with the generally accepted age of the Great Pyramid (thus adding credence to Ra's statement). The bad news obviously is that we still seem to be missing around 1,400 years from Ra's stated time of completion of 6,000 years ago.

For what it's worth however, even though this discrepancy does not concern me, I tend to think that there is something more to it than simply Ra's problem mapping events onto our historical calendar. Is the past, perhaps, as malleable as the future?

For now though, I am content to let it remain as a mystery.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

Awesome, I'm not sure how I missed that blurb on Imhotep but it's good to know my research was on to it... I am a believer that a lot of the ancient Partriarchs of Judaism were actually pharoahs in Egypt, even Jesus possibly being Caesarion. Imhotep is said to have been Joseph son of Jacob/Israel who was a mystical kind of guy and powerful in Egypt. I'm thinking what Ra did was say 6000 instead of 5000 by rounding up the 4600. And I completely know what you're saying, about maybe time being malleable. I keep getting that impression too. This is just after the time that the lifespan dropped significantly.. for example Jacob died at age 145, Joseph at 110, and thereafter it was our normal lifespan.

[sos]

These are all very good ideas and I found them enlightening. But how about the Cayce dates - 10500 or 11000 ya with 100 years to build it? Ra stated Cayce read from the akashic records - actually that Cayce channeled no entity but spoke from the 8th density energy that forms the records. The mystery to me is still how there could be such a different set of dates given by Ra and Cayce. I apologize both for not quoting exactly from the text as well as for this obsession with transient info, but this has been a mystery to me for a very long time. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Ole]

Is the Cayce material on the pyramids freely available online?

[ayadew]

On the subject of pyramids, radiocarbon dating of organic material found within the mortar between pyramid blocks posits that the age of the pyramids are nearer to 4500 years old (approximately 2500BC). (see source, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/exp...wold2.html).

My western scientific viewpoint:

I must add that my experience with radiometric dating (carbon isotope dating) is that it's sometimes prone to heavy errors. For example, carbon isotope dating is difficult for you do not know exactly what carbon molecules you're examining.
In short, radiometric dating examines the relative abundance of isotopes of a certain atom in a material, because of the radioactive principle in all matter, atoms are over time transformed into different isotopes. You then calculate the relation between a 'mother' isotope (the oldest one) and the newer ones, and can thus date the material you examine based on knowledge of how 'fast' this atom 'decomposes'.
The material you examine might as well be a micro organism that has grown, died, blended with the material you wish to examine, eroded material from 'newer' locations which has been transported and deposited in. It's almost impossible to tell.

It's a good method, but it has to be supported with other evidence.
We thought, for example, for a long time that there has been no glaciers in North America in the latest quaternary because carbon dating in the soil told us so. A truck load of evidence contradicts this.

So I would recommend to not trust radiometric dating too much.

[sos]

Is the Cayce material on the pyramids freely available online?

I'm not sure about that. However, I went back and checked the direct quote from Cayce in which he said that the Pyramid of Gizeh (Great Pyramid) was constructed by several entities including Hermes and Ra (Cayce had a former incarnation in which his name was Ra-Ta) and that the method was "floating the blocks in the air". Also, he gave the date as being from 10,390 - 10,290 bc or as he termed it "before the Prince of Peace". The time of construction was 100 years. Cayce gave so many details surrounding this event that it is a very believable account. I guess the dilemma for me is that I find both Cayce and Ra to be very credible sources, both having played a major role in shaping my views on the the way things are. I cannot say that for much other channeled information, since I tend to generally be somewhat wary of channeled info. It's just that I don't understand how this significant a variation in the dates could occur between the two unless of course one or both of these sources is either bogus or prone to error. I guess that's what really worries me. I'd say Cayce did demonstrate giving some faulty info on several occasions. There were a couple of times when he was offered what I believe were negative greetings by an entity that called itself Halaliel, or something like that. Also, there were times when an entity claimed to be the Archangel Michael. Though there was no challenge given to these entities, the Cayce team decided not to channel the former entity after it started giving strange predictions that seemed scary and negative and was becoming demanding. The channelings that claimed to be from Michael seemed to be filled with predictions of turn-of -the-century disasters. All of the Cayce people were naive in the extreme as to channeling, etc. They were all very dedicated Christians with no background in this sort of thing. They definitely seem to all have been very positive.

[βαθμιαίος]

Perhaps the 1,500 year discrepancy is, in part at least, explained by this quote from Ra, given in the first post of this thread:

The first, the Great Pyramid, was formed approximately 6,000 of your years ago. Then, in sequence, after this performing by thought of the building or architecture of the Great Pyramid using the more, shall we say, local or earthly material rather than thought-form material to build other pyramidal structures. This continued for approximately 1,500 of your years.

Not sure about the discrepancy between Ra and Cayce, but they do both indicate contact approximately 11,000 years ago.

[AnthroHeart]

David Wilcock's research shows a 20-year cycle in the wave of metaphysical phenomena, or 40 years when going crest to crest. He brought up the Philadelphia Experiment (creation of black holes) and how this released an immense amount of energy. Then 40 years later, the harmonic of this energy was released again. I think he said 1943 IIRC.

It's equally baffling to accept that the Great Pyramid appeared overnight. Surely this would have created a metaphorical shock wave that would have reverberated all the way to the present day.

[Lavazza]

David Wilcock's research shows a 20-year cycle in the wave of metaphysical phenomena, or 40 years when going crest to crest.

Bashar has also spoken about 40 year cycles. He posits that our cycle of transformation started in 1947 with Roswell, then hit a mid-point in 1987 (harmonic convergence) and will finish in full fledged 4th density in 2027. Then there are mid points and quarter points etc. that have diminishing significance.

[Lavazza]

Perhaps the 1,500 year discrepancy is, in part at least, explained by this quote from Ra, given in the first post of this thread:

The first, the Great Pyramid, was formed approximately 6,000 of your years ago. Then, in sequence, after this performing by thought of the building or architecture of the Great Pyramid using the more, shall we say, local or earthly material rather than thought-form material to build other pyramidal structures. This continued for approximately 1,500 of your years.

Not sure about the discrepancy between Ra and Cayce, but they do both indicate contact approximately 11,000 years ago.

Back to this fascinating topic.

So we have the coinciding and harmonious data between Ra and modern archaeology on the date, if we only use Ra's indirect information. Ra's coordinated the appearance of the great pyramid with the lifetime of Imhotep (he lived approximately 2650-2600 BC according to wikipedia, or 4660 BP), and archaeologists have given us approximately 2560 BC for the great pyramid, or 4570 BP. Due to the nature of trying to determine the exact age of things, I'm willing to overlook the 100 year discrepancy.

The confusion comes in when Ra says directly that the great pyramid was built 6000 years ago, which would be around 3990 BC. I'll have to conclude for now at least, that Ra made a mistake in calculating the year of the great pyramid's construction. That, or, as βαθμιαίος indicated perhaps there is something to the 1500 year 'construction period' that Ra spoke of. What if Ra built a pyramid other than the great pyramid 6000 years ago with thought, and then the Egyptians continued on with the construction of other pyramids afterwards for 1500 years, which included the great pyramid? That would at least help explain this: http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html

Does anyone here know more about the other pyramids in Egypt, when they were built and so forth? (fun stuff!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imhotep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_pyramid_of_giza

[Ashim]

Maybe the alignment of the Orion belt to the Giza Pyramids could help date the construction as suggested in the link.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/pirami...mide_8.htm

[thefool]

So I would recommend to not trust radiometric dating too much.

My thoughts exactly...

You are banking on carbon dating to be dot on. What makes it that accurate? There are assumptions in the process and wrong assumptions may lead to inaccuracies. No wonder you hear new scientific theories about the old stuff every day...

The time difference is so insignificant anyway, does it change anything? Or are you trying to assess Ra's validity with dates matching? Ra is valid because it resonates or invalid if it does not...

[Lavazza]

My thoughts exactly...

You are banking on carbon dating to be dot on. What makes it that accurate? There are assumptions in the process and wrong assumptions may lead to inaccuracies. No wonder you hear new scientific theories about the old stuff every day...

That's true. However I also don't like to discount all that we can learn with science because people can be wrong or have been wrong previously, at least I don't think it's a good idea in my opinion. Radio carbon dating is a bit variable as Ayadew mentioned, but only in so far as people make mistakes in what they are examining. The process itself, in measuring the decay rate of the carbon atoms, is highly accurate. That said, you can't carbon date stone, so yes, it isn't something to bank on completely with regard to the pyramids.

The time difference is so insignificant anyway, does it change anything? Or are you trying to assess Ra's validity with dates matching? Ra is valid because it resonates or invalid if it does not...

There was a time when this was true, but not anymore. I've had too many subtle cosmic clues that Ra's message of Oneness is valid. Resonance too. I'm not trying to determine Ra's validity, rather just trying to rectify what modern science & archaeology says with what my favorite spiritual source of wisdom says. It's an intellectual pass time for me at the moment. I also don't believe Ra couldn't have been wrong

[thefool]

It's an intellectual pass time for me at the moment. I also don't believe Ra couldn't have been wrong

No issues !!! My apologies if I came out too strongly. I have a tendency to do that from time to time

As far as Ra is concerned they are infallible and those who don't believe that will burn in hell... see I just did that again (just kidding with ya! my friend, in playing mood today !!!)

[Lavazza]

Haha, all is well my friend

Law of One hell, maybe we can add that in to the "new testament" version of the Ra material, LOL!

[Monica]

Lavazza, have you watched any of Nassim Haramein's videos in which he discusses the pyramids?

[Lavazza]

Lavazza, have you watched any of Nassim Haramein's videos in which he discusses the pyramids?

No, but I would welcome them if you have any links. I started watching a 4 hour lecture on google video a few months ago but never finished it...

[Cyclops]

If there seems to be a discrepancy with the dating on the construction then this quote might help explain Ra's position when it deals with the dates and estimation of years.

Ra: This is correct. Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

[Lavazza]

Ra: This is correct. Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

Yes. I've been thinking about this on and off over the last few days, and am beginning to conclude that this is the root cause of the pyramid construction date confusion. It's the most elegant solution that I can think of. We have not only Ra's own words about building the pyramids around the lifetime of Imhotep but also have a consensus among modern archaeology that the great pyramid was built around the same general time frame. So we (modern peoples) would have to be wrong about both of those time periods for the 6000 year old data to remain plausible.

As with all such speculations however, my conclusions are temporary pending further information.

EDIT: This also only deepens the mystery of the Cayce information on the pyramids, unfortunately