Abrupt vs gradual harvest

[Parsons]

Dec 21st is graduation day

So no harvest on 22 Dec or any time thereafter?

The opportunity for harvest on this planet will end for those not at all ready now will be able to be harvested in 25k(minor cycle)/75k years (or sooner, depending on progress) on the new 3D planet.

[hogey11]

Yet given that- if you were offered a way to continue teach/learning without the backdrop of "the battle" would you accept it?

Also- are you deadset on being either "placated" or "passionate"? Can you envision a more balanced response?

Not dead set; balanced is very much the goal. My problem is I often am affronted with this idea of accepting all things good, bad, or otherwise as part of the creator, which I react to as I see that as a complete abandonment of any fight, which wouldn't be balanced either at this stage for myself (in introspect - I could be 6D and my higher self is just facepalming right now).

I struggle often with this issue as 3D is supposed to be the density of choice, yet in our rush to become 'enlightened' it seems to me that we are quick to skip over lessons that are required to learn. I would love to develop a 5D response to these ideas, but I know I am not there yet. It wouldn't do me any good as my wisdom would not yet be developed. I need to still make bad decisions in the 'arena' I guess; unless any of us are sure we are 5D+, we all still face these lessons. I think there is danger in seeing myself as far more evolved than I really am. In light of that, however, I should be open to accept all things.

The best weapon to fight STS influence is love. I always try to remind myself that in terms of conflict, to meet their vibrations means you have lost. I must try to drag them up to my vibrations and not the other way around. They want a fight; I must learn to fight without fighting.

[Tenet Nosce]

fight without fighting.

:idea:

[zenmaster]

Hasn't really started yet, as there is not yet real contrast between 4D and 3D, due to relative lack of 4D influence.

So to be clear, you feel that the increase of "negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes" has not even begun?

Yes, because the 4th density conditions have not even begun.

And if so... then you believe that the "new awareness (i.e. "sharing", "closeness", "familiarity", etc)" will coincide with an increase in negatively oriented entities?

The vibration which support that condition of mind, yes.

I'd imagine that within my lifetime there would be a complete change in society due to the moderately increased awareness available. For example, needs, abilities, and personality would become more transparent (obvious, easy to ascertain or recognize) eventually resulting in much more effective interaction, cooperation and contribution among individuals.

How can there be an increase in negative polarization if these changes you describe are occurring?

Because those changes are of the higher vibration. That is a vibration which allows. It's the same one you work with but it will be supported externally, in the environment. Vibration supports "mind" of like resonance. Initially it's of the sub-logos (the distortions of the sub-logos), and slowly it is what we will make of it with the planetary and personal mind.

[hogey11]

62.28 Questioner: Then as the fourth-density vibrations come in this means that the planet can support entities of fourth-density core vibration. Will the planet then still be first-density core vibration and will there be second-density entities on it with second-density vibrations, and will there be third-density entities on it with third-density vibrations?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. There is energy but the distortions of the instrument suggest to us it would be well to shorten this working with your permission.

62.29 Questioner: Yes.

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third density.

Thus in fourth density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

i'm trying to figure out if this applies in some way... It's really hard to truly define harvest as a 'window' or as a 'moment', and i'm not saying it can't be both either. With that said, both bring such different aspects into play that it's really confusing.

The part of this that I find interesting is that the original question asked about each individual sphere and it's fate come 4D activation. Red and orange skate through (all our jewels and kitty cats are safe!), but Ra doesn't go so far to include the yellow sphere and vibrations. Does this support an abrupt scenario?

[GentleReckoning]

I'm more and more thinking that for a while 3rd density will be a 'protected' species on 4d earth. They will be allowed to continue their reality to see if they find their way to the choice. As part of this process they will be manifesting their distortions more and more rapidly with the intent that they finally release them. This process will likely make incarnation for those that stubbornly refuse to confront self a very uncomfortable place to exist. Many incarnations may end due to this fundamental vibrational mismatch.

Meanwhile, those that are ready for 4d lessons will begin receiving them. Granted lessons of any density can be tackled while in 3d. However, this time period will allow much easier access to 4d lessons than you would have had in veiled 3d. The intent to move with every moment into 4d will allow this process to accelerate for yourself, and as others move with you, together you will bring the energy of 4d more and more into focus.

More and more, I'm thinking that although there WILL be things that change fundamentally on the 21st that for the majority of us incarnate on earth at this time that work will still need to be done for our selves on earth.

I'm always up for a roller-coaster ride though. Here's hoping!

I will say that many Ra quotes seem to speak of a very big change happening on Earth. I have not been impressed with explanations from people that espouse a gradual change in regard to these quotes. Reading Ra isn't like trying to find truth in Earthly religions. Ra spoke AS CLEARLY as he could via the transmission through Carla. With that in mind, if a passage on the surface seems to clearly indicate something, that is probably what it indicates.

[zenmaster]

The part of this that I find interesting is that the original question asked about each individual sphere and it's fate come 4D activation. Red and orange skate through (all our jewels and kitty cats are safe!), but Ra doesn't go so far to include the yellow sphere and vibrations. Does this support an abrupt scenario?

There is partial activation and full activation. Full activation comes 100-700 years. During that transitional period "yellow" is waning and "green" is increasing.

[hogey11]

During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third density.

Wouldn't there be development of 4D entities by full activation (end of transition)?

[zenmaster]

I have not been impressed with explanations from people that espouse a gradual change in regard to these quotes

For example?

[hogey11]

@Gentle

I wonder what 4D birth is like.... I doubt it's as confusing as what we did for this incarnation!

Maybe the incarnation process in 4D is quite pleasant; like a bar mitzvah or something

[zenmaster]

During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third density.

Wouldn't there be development of 4D entities by full activation (end of transition)?

There would be the full 4D body, but the mind is still figuring out how to use the body. A 4D body has a massive "spiritual wake" (as the higher vibration always controls or influences the lower) that can basically kill 3D if exposed over a short time. During the transition and until they learn to withdraw that energy from the local 3D environment, 4D can easily do harm to 3D.

[hogey11]

So if 4D can mess up 3D just by being in activation, how does that jive with a transition period unless 4D segments and segregates itself away from 3D society as it peters out?

[zenmaster]

So if 4D can mess up 3D just by being in activation, how does that jive with a transition period unless 4D segments and segregates itself away from 3D society as it peters out?

It should be gone before the end of the transition period.

[GentleReckoning]

@Gentle

I wonder what 4D birth is like.... I doubt it's as confusing as what we did for this incarnation!

Maybe the incarnation process in 4D is quite pleasant; like a bar mitzvah or something

I imagine the gestation period is a great time for contemplation/meditation. Imagine having the wonder/imagination of a child, and instead of it decreasing with age it is only increased with time.

It would be nice not needing to undo a lifetime's worth of red/orange/yellow/green/blue ray unblocking every time around!

---

I have not been impressed with explanations from people that espouse a gradual change in regard to these quotes

For example?

I apologize, but I'm wiped out and don't wish to discuss them at this time. Now that I have access to the forum, I will simply weigh in on the different postulations as they arise.

[anagogy]

So if 4D can mess up 3D just by being in activation, how does that jive with a transition period unless 4D segments and segregates itself away from 3D society as it peters out?

Full awareness of 4D electrical fields will cause 3D electrical fields to fail. But partial awareness does not. 3D can handle a little of it, and acclimatize over time, hence transitional forms, until 3D is transcended altogether.

[Tenet Nosce]

Yes, because the 4th density conditions have not even begun.

How are you so sure that the increase in negativity they referred to isn't what we have been seeing between 1936 up until "full instreaming"? Seems like a large uptick in negativity to me...

If you are correct, what does this mean on a group level? How long do you think the increase in negativity will last? Should positive entities be concerned about a further consolidation of power and control by negative entities?

There is a lot of chatter about plans for false flag attacks, martial law, detention of Americans in FEMA camps, etc. What is your take on all this? Pure paranoia? Or is there some legitimate concern? If so, to what degree?

For those of positive polarization, do you think it will be possible to assimilate the "new awareness" and enjoy a greater ease of life and more leisure time, even as the negativity increases in the external world?

The vibration which support that condition of mind, yes.

Any specific recommendations as to how to access that vibration? Would it even be wise for a 3D entity to do so? Would interacting with those high vibrations have a detrimental effect on the 3D body complex?

[hogey11]

So if we go down the gradual path without any form of 'tipping point' or abrupt moment to it, how do you think we're going to 'discover' the first 4D body? What will be our reaction?

How much time after 4D entities start incarnating here will it take for us to notice it happening? In other words, when do transitional bodies stop incarnating? Come December 21st, 2012 (or some other symbolic date), will all the transitionals start incarnating as pure 4D?

Will the full 4D entities starting to incarnate only be witnessed by transitionals or will there be any full 3D types left by the time that happens?

---

Some small things I noticed:

Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

Transition period length is not fact; it is theory. Even the window is not to be considered 'accurate'.

Also, in response to the idea that Harvest/4D development started in 1936:

40.9 Questioner: Has the vibration of the photon increased in frequency already?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. It is this influence which has begun to cause thoughts to become things. As an example you may observe the thoughts of anger becoming those cells of the physical bodily complex going out of control to become what you call the cancer.

Questioner: I am assuming that this vibratory increase began about twenty to thirty years ago. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The first harbingers of this were approximately forty-five of your years ago, the energies vibrating more intensely through the forty-year period preceding the final movement of vibratory matter, shall we say, through the quantum leap, as you would call it.

Cancer rates have been rising ever since 1936; maybe even earlier... In the above quote too, RA says that 4D work is already being done, which to me is synonymous with 4D development... Anyways, might give a little more credit to the idea

---

40.15 Questioner: Thank you. A very important concept. Does the fact that the basic vibration that we experience now is green true color or fourth-density account for the fact that there are many mental effects upon material objects that are now observable for the first time in a mass way such as the bending of metal by mind?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the final query in total of this working. This is not only correct but we suggest you take this concept further and understand the great number of entities with the so-called mental diseases being due to the effect of this green-ray true color upon the mental configurations of those unready mentally to face the self for the first time.

Are there any brief queries before we close?

I'm having a hard time believing early 4D experience is not already underway...

[Guardian]

[quote='hogey11' pid='107933' dateline='1354739893']

I struggle often with this issue as 3D is supposed to be the density of choice, yet in our rush to become 'enlightened' it seems to me that we are quick to skip over lessons that are required to learn.

What makes you think you have skipped over lessons? How many lifetimes have you had learning lessons?

[zenmaster]

Yes, because the 4th density conditions have not even begun.

How are you so sure that the increase in negativity they referred to isn't what we have been seeing between 1936 up until "full instreaming"? Seems like a large uptick in negativity to me...

Ra said "will be"...as in future tense? Seems rather straightforward.

If you are correct, what does this mean on a group level? How long do you think the increase in negativity will last? Should positive entities be concerned about a further consolidation of power and control by negative entities?

I don't know. My guess is until a certain amount of 4D mind is established and 3D energies have waned. I doubt anyone can do anything about it - these are ethical decisions after all. Further, as far as I can tell, the newly 4D are extremely naive.

There is a lot of chatter about plans for false flag attacks, martial law, detention of Americans in FEMA camps, etc. What is your take on all this? Pure paranoia? Or is there some legitimate concern? If so, to what degree?

Well certainly camps can be repurposed and the spirit of any law can be changed to suit those in power. But realistically, nothing is going to happen socially that hasn't been asked for.

For those of positive polarization, do you think it will be possible to assimilate the "new awareness" and enjoy a greater ease of life and more leisure time, even as the negativity increases in the external world?

Of course.

The vibration which support that condition of mind, yes.

Any specific recommendations as to how to access that vibration?

You have no choice but to access that vibration, as it becomes the dominant influence which supports and informs the planetary mind.

It's just the green-ray vibration. You are already familiar with it as it exists on a personal and transpersonal level. Personally, that vibration was effectively supported by your mind complex.

The only thing that changes is that the vibration now is planetary as well, and experienced in relatively undistorted form (solar logos) until society participates with it and builds "the 4D sphere".

Would it even be wise for a 3D entity to do so? Would interacting with those high vibrations have a detrimental effect on the 3D body complex?

No it doesn't have a detrimental effect on the 3D body whatsoever. The fully activated 4D body, which is grounded in 3D, is what has a detrimental effect on the 3D body.

---

So if we go down the gradual path without any form of 'tipping point' or abrupt moment to it, how do you think we're going to 'discover' the first 4D body? What will be our reaction?

Fully activated 4D body? You wont discover it unless you're in one.

How much time after 4D entities start incarnating here will it take for us to notice it happening?

You mean when will there be an overt presence of dual-activated types?

In other words, when do transitional bodies stop incarnating?

At the end of the transition period of 100 to 700 years.

Come December 21st, 2012 (or some other symbolic date), will all the transitionals start incarnating as pure 4D?

Of course not.

Will the full 4D entities starting to incarnate only be witnessed by transitionals or will there be any full 3D types left by the time that happens?

3D and 4D coexist visible to each during the first part of transition period.

I'm having a hard time believing early 4D experience is not already underway...

Who said it wasn't?

[hogey11]

Fully activated 4D body? You wont discover it unless you're in one.

I see it more as people start having 'weird babies' who have certain body organs missing or turned off and show signs of '4D skills' at an early age. Maybe they'll find their DNA is different or structured in a novel fashion. At some point in the cohabitation period, the transitional population is going to become aware of a 'new breed', no? If we cohabitate, why would it be impossible for 3D entities to perceive a difference between them and these new incarnates?

You mean when will there be an overt presence of dual-activated types?

In my own perception, I see overt dual-activated people already all around me. I think as we speak the majority of souls on this planet are either transitionals or wanderers...

At the end of the transition period of 100 to 700 years.

Which is not an accurate window due to our 'volatility'

Who said it wasn't?

I meant '4D experience' as the start of the transition period. That's kinda the point I was trying to make (semantics may have failed me) - the transition period started in 1936, which means 'full 4D' can really happen anytime that circumstances allow. Now, by saying that i'm not saying that it will be any different than Ra's estimation, but Ra also seemed pretty motivated to tell us that we're complete wildcards in respect to harvest. They could only speak to the current day and state of things.


@Guardian

What makes you think you have skipped over lessons? How many lifetimes have you had learning lessons?

I have no idea how many lifetimes i've lived! I said that as I believe if i'm not a native 3D, I would probably fit most closely to a 4D wanderer. Before 5D, the necessity for battle remains, so in the context of bending over for the STS and 'showing them love', I would be hindering my lessons in aiding other-selves as far as being aware of the the opposite polarity from which I follow. There is a time and place for those lessons (5D and beyond).

So if I were to act as if I were a 5D entity but I am not, I am trying to skip over lessons I have not yet mastered. I don't believe I should abandon 'the fight' until i'm evolved enough to call for such action. Until then, there is much to learn through the catalyst

---

@zen

Ra said "will be"...as in future tense? Seems rather straightforward.

'will be' is not the same as 'begins'. It doesn't mean there could not have been a rise beforehand as well.

---

Well certainly camps can be repurposed and the spirit of any law can be changed to suit those in power. But realistically, nothing is going to happen socially that hasn't been asked for.

This is where I think the 'quiet horror' might surprise us all as far as planetary polarity goes. I think there may be more asking for something resembling a 4D paradigm than we may realize.

[Tenet Nosce]

Ra said "will be"...as in future tense? Seems rather straightforward.

They said that in 1981, at the beginning of Session 17.

I see the context of the reply as talking about the "thirty years of inconveniences" leading up to the "full instreaming." Don is specifically asking about the thirty years in the query.

Questioner: We are now in the fourth density. Will the effects of the fourth density increase in the next thirty years? Will we see more changes in our environment and our effect upon our environment?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is a vibrational spectrum. Your time/space continuum has spiraled your planetary sphere and your, what we would call galaxy, what you call star, into this vibration. This will cause the planetary sphere itself to electromagnetically realign its vortices of reception of the in-streaming of cosmic forces expressing themselves as vibrational webs so that the Earth will thus be fourth-density magnetized, as you might call it.

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

Those who remain in fourth density upon this plane will be of the so-called positive orientation. Many will come from elsewhere, for it would appear that with all of the best efforts of the Confederation, which includes those from your peoples’ inner planes, inner civilizations, and those from other dimensions, the harvest will still be much less than that which this planetary sphere is capable of comfortably supporting in service.

This response lays out a general sequence of events. Where in this sequence are we at present? Over what period of time does this entire sequence take place, if not thirty years?

Also- What do they mean by "fourth density upon this plane"? Which plane?

[zenmaster]

Ra said "will be"...as in future tense? Seems rather straightforward.

They said that in 1981, at the beginning of Session 17.

Well yes, and you were asking about 1936.

I see the context of the reply as talking about the "thirty years of inconveniences" leading up to the "full instreaming." Don is specifically asking about the thirty years in the query.

Ra is trying to characterize the local effects of fourth density for Don. The 30 years leads up to the magnetization of the planet for 4D. After the 30 years, "full instreaming" may take place.

This response lays out a general sequence of events. Where in this sequence are we at present?

We are only about right at the time of "full instreaming".

Over what period of time does this entire sequence take place, if not thirty years?

Entire sequence ends several generations from now at minimum. Because by that time there would be no 3D natives, or wanderers.

Also- What do they mean by "fourth density upon this plane"? Which plane?

The fourth-dimensional plane. As in "core-vibration" of 4D.

[Tenet Nosce]

Well yes, and you were asking about 1936.

I was referring to the time period between 1936 and now... wouldn't you say there has been a "sharp increase" of negatively oriented complexes over the last 75-ish years?

Also- they say the increase in negativity will be over the "short run." What sort of time-frame do you think they meant by this?

Ra is trying to characterize the local effects of fourth density for Don. The 30 years leads up to the magnetization of the planet for 4D. After the 30 years, "full instreaming" may take place.

OK... so if we look at this part of the quote...

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

... you are saying that in the first paragraph, Ra is talking about the thirty-year period of inconveniences leading up to "full instreaming" and going in the second paragraph, they continued past the thirty-year period into talking about what would occur for many generations beyond this... possibly extending to 700 years?

Or are you saying that they continued past the thirty-year period going into the third paragraph?

I dunno zen- Either way that sounds more than a little strained to me. Why would Ra have stopped talking about the thirty-year period in the middle of a response, without specifying the change in context? Don't you think they would have anticipated widespread confusion by doing this?

We are only about right at the time of "full instreaming".

Yes, but this concept of "full instreaming" is a construct which doesn't even occur in the material. In fact, Ra only uses the word "instreaming" a single time, in 63.13 where they are talking about those with a "double body in activation."

Moreover, within that quote they are talking specifically about entities who are "now" (in 1981) incarnated. This implies that people were incarnating with the "double body in activation" back in 1981. Not some time in the future between 30 and 700 years.

Now, if we go back to 17.1- my interpretation that having the "double body in activation" corresponds to the "new breed" they are discussing.

You don't agree?

Also- What do they mean by "fourth density upon this plane"? Which plane?

The fourth-dimensional plane. As in "core-vibration" of 4D.

Let's apply this definition in the context of the sentence:

Those who remain in fourth density upon this fourth-dimensional core-vibration will be of the so-called positive orientation.

Now it looks like gibberish to me. What does this sentence even mean?

[zenmaster]

Well yes, and you were asking about 1936.

I was referring to the time period between 1936 and now... wouldn't you say there has been a "sharp increase" of negatively oriented complexes over the last 75-ish years?

The 20th century had its share of negative oriented complexes. However, as 4D conditions have really not yet taken hold, I doubt Ra was taking about those.

Also- they say the increase in negativity will be over the "short run." What sort of time-frame do you think they meant by this?

I think the time-frame during the transitional period where the lower vibrations are still largely supported and by the still active, yet waning 3D sphere. I'd imagine a at least few generations from now.

Ra is trying to characterize the local effects of fourth density for Don. The 30 years leads up to the magnetization of the planet for 4D. After the 30 years, "full instreaming" may take place.

OK... so if we look at this part of the quote...

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

... you are saying that in the first paragraph, Ra is talking about the thirty-year period of inconveniences leading up to "full instreaming" and going in the second paragraph, they continued past the thirty-year period into talking about what would occur for many generations beyond this... possibly extending to 700 years?

Yes indeed.

Or are you saying that they continued past the thirty-year period going into the third paragraph?

Yes.

I dunno zen- Either way that sounds more than a little strained to me.

Prob can't help you with your strain.

Why would Ra have stopped talking about the thirty-year period in the middle of a response, without specifying the change in context? Don't you think they would have anticipated widespread confusion by doing this?

Not really. Many of Don's questions had confused premises and Ra naturally took the liberty of elaborating and expanding upon the general notion of the transition.

We are only about right at the time of "full instreaming".

Yes, but this concept of "full instreaming" is a construct which doesn't even occur in the material. In fact, Ra only uses the word "instreaming" a single time, in 63.13 where they are talking about those with a "double body in activation."

It means there is a relatively unbaffled influx of energy of that vibration - due to being 4D-"magnetized".

Moreover, within that quote they are talking specifically about entities who are "now" (in 1981) incarnated. This implies that people were incarnating with the "double body in activation" back in 1981. Not some time in the future between 30 and 700 years.

That is correct, not sure where you got the idea that there was disagreement with that?

Now, if we go back to 17.1- my interpretation that having the "double body in activation" corresponds to the "new breed" they are discussing.

You don't agree?

I do agree. Again, not sure where you got the idea that I would not agree with that.

Also- What do they mean by "fourth density upon this plane"? Which plane?

The fourth-dimensional plane. As in "core-vibration" of 4D.

Let's apply this definition in the context of the sentence:

Those who remain in fourth density upon this fourth-dimensional core-vibration will be of the so-called positive orientation.

Now it looks like gibberish to me. What does this sentence even mean?

I think we already discussed this a few times. Each density has its own discrete vibration. The densities are embedded such that lower may exist within higher. Higher also controls lower. "Core" vibration simply means the vibrational base from which all subsequent manifestation follows (in time/space and when incarnated, in space/time).

[freestonew]

hi all.

I like to see results of major cycles by looking at the same patterns in lesser cycles. after lesser cycle X, Y occurs.
thus at cycle Z, I will look for a harmonic of Y.

analogy: a college has two major semesters. I move to this city in November and I want to see what the June graduation ceremony will be like. I realize that there is a smaller graduation in late december after the first semester ends. I visit this ceremony and take notes. whatever they do then will be repeated in June, when *most* of the seniors graduate.

Jesus!
a guide once wrote about a legend about Jesus. he says that this legend is where the saints who died before Jesus died, all waited in the lower heavens until He died so that they all could go up with him to the father.
this guide then explained....
----explained that this Point in time was a minor Graduation of souls
and that many old old souls were on their last incarnation and thus were ready to permanently Ascend. They all did so at Jesus's death.
the result of this, he says, is that Rome empire lost most of its old souls!
within a few years, only young souls incarnated and there went the leadership, the military leaders, the Humanities! but it took a number of hundred years before Rome fell apart. only in the eastern rome and the arab countries were there older souls left.
few painters could even paint in perspective, he says. back to pre-rome dark ages of baby and young souls. Jesus *himself* took the references about reincarnation out of the Bible, as this Idea would utterly confuse the Babies, he says!!

thus i suspect indeed that the full moving to complete harvest/ascension, will take hundreds of years. Rome fell in 450 AD.

freestone

[Tenet Nosce]

That is correct, not sure where you got the idea that there was disagreement with that?

I'm just trying to pinpoint where exactly in this quote you feel the sudden shift in timeframe occurs:

[BEGIN 30-YEAR PERIOD, starting circa 1981]

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

[END 30-YEAR PERIOD, Now talking about what happens during the first few generations following "full instreaming" circa 2011]

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

Is that an accurate representation of your view?

[Cimi]

I want to add something to this discussion. This is the words from Hidden_hand and offer his/her view on "Harvest".
If you want to read all for yourselves press ctrl+f and type in "December" if you have that search function in your browser. Else scroll down a bit.
http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html

"So, December 21, 2012 AD, is not the day where all of the sudden the lights go out, and everything will suddenly change, rather, we are NOW in the process of this transition, from one World Age to the next. The changes are underway and will continue steadily accelerating as we head towards the culminating date."
"And the planet will complete it's Ascension to the Fourth Density, the vibrational Density of Love. During this Ascension, there will be a three way split for those Souls inhabiting Earth. Those of the predominantly Negative Polarity, will accompany us as we Graduate through the Negative (or Service to Self) Harvest. We (Lucifer) will Create a new 4th Density Earth, based on the Negative Self Service Polarity. We must 'work off' our own part of the Negative Karmic effect incurred from all the Negativity created on this planet. Once we have done so, we will be released to once again assume our place as Sixth Density Guardians and Teachers of Wisdom throughout the Galaxy."

"Those of the predominantly Positive Polarity (Love and Light) will Ascend to a beautiful new 4th Density Earth, where you will begin to work upon your learning and demonstrating of Love and Compassion. It will be a very beautiful and "Golden" Age. The 4th Density begins to open you up to your True Powers as a unique individualized aspect of The One Infinite Creator. You will perform works and wonders of the like that the one you call "Jesus" promised you would do "and even greater things than these". It will be a very magical time for you. "

"For the majority of Humans on the earth who could be considered shall we say "luke warm", they will experience a period of (what will feel 'ecstatic') zero-point time, where you feel totally at One with The Creator, giving you an encouraging reminder and glimpse of who you really are, before the veil of forgetfulness once again descends upon you, and you will be transported to another 3rd Density planet (a kind of 'Earth Replica'), to continue working upon yourselves and learning that life here is all about making choices. You will remain "quarantined" incarnating in 3rd Density matter until the time of the next Harvest; in which time you will need to have proved yourselves that you have learned how to be more Positive Beings, focused more upon being of Service to others, rather than seeking only to Serve yourself. When you can do this, and the next Harvest comes, you will have earned the right to join us, and enjoy your inheritance, as a member of the Galactic Community, and you will sit with us as Brothers and Sisters of The One, around the table of our Galactic Governing Body, the Confederation of Planets. "

When are this going to happen? -> "On 13.0.0.0.0 (Mayan years), the December solstice sun will be found in the band of the Milky Way, directly in the position of the "Dark Rift" in the Galaxy, forming an alignment between the Galactic Plane and the Solstice Meridian. We are about to enter into a literal alignment of the Cosmic, Galactic, Solar, and Lunar Planes. This is an event that has slowly converged, over a period of thousands of years, and is caused by the precession of the equinoxes. Kind of like a "turning" of the Universal Gears. It brings about the Great Harvest, and the return of the Lord of The Harvest. "

So I guess this is a very abrupt scenario. I would love to hear what you others think about this, and I'm happy if this gives any more weight to this discussion . My personal view is that I am all up for abrupt changes, I'm really tired of Earth's situation as it is now and somedays just feel like a total struggle for survival. I would want nothing else than to be in an environment filled with love and light and with people that are on the same wavelength as I am.

Namaste!

[zenmaster]

That is correct, not sure where you got the idea that there was disagreement with that?

I'm just trying to pinpoint where exactly in this quote you feel the sudden shift in timeframe occurs:

[BEGIN 30-YEAR PERIOD, starting circa 1981]

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

[END 30-YEAR PERIOD, Now talking about what happens during the first few generations following "full instreaming" circa 2011]

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

Is that an accurate representation of your view?

No.

---

The 30-year period precedes the "quantum jump" where the influx is relatively uninhibited.
"New breed" are the "dual-activated" which have already been incarnating for the last 40 years or so.
Sharp increase of negatively oriented simply follows the social memory evolution toward 4D where the lower vibrations are still viable. This is perhaps a few generations. And when the negatively oriented are gone, all wanderers will probably also be gone.

[Tenet Nosce]

The 30-year period precedes the "quantum jump" where the influx is relatively uninhibited.
"New breed" are the "dual-activated" which have already been incarnating for the last 40 years or so.
Sharp increase of negatively oriented simply follows the social memory evolution toward 4D where the lower vibrations are still viable. This is perhaps a few generations. And when the negatively oriented are gone, all wanderers will probably also be gone.

How is this different from what I posted above?

[zenmaster]

The 30-year period precedes the "quantum jump" where the influx is relatively uninhibited.
"New breed" are the "dual-activated" which have already been incarnating for the last 40 years or so.
Sharp increase of negatively oriented simply follows the social memory evolution toward 4D where the lower vibrations are still viable. This is perhaps a few generations. And when the negatively oriented are gone, all wanderers will probably also be gone.

How is this different from what I posted above?

While I agree that that there are already some "new breed", there isn't quite the overt presence of those with distortions for 4D work indicated by a "sharp increase". So I'd put the witnessing and acknowledgement of that phenomenon sometime after the 30-year period.