Abrupt vs gradual harvest

[Patrick]

And yet there is a point in the rainbow where the color is totally green and goes toward to the blue. This is the beginning of 4D until the color is all blue and 5D begins, etc...

It seems to me that we are saying the same thing. But then I see this as gradual progression.

[Mcik]

I have to agree with much of what Vasistha has said, some of it I'm unsure of myself but I share his angle on this.

This is an important quote for me:

Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: ...To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thoughtforms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third density.

Unless I'm interperating this incorrectly Ra says that everything the questioner states is correct except that in addition "3rd density vibrations" involves more than just ourselves (mind/body/spirit complexes).

So not only is this true:

"At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet."

but the:

"artifacts, thoughtforms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced"

will not be in activation either.

I am not sure on Ra's exact definiton of "artifacts" and "thoughtforms" but I would presume they meant everything we have physically created together in third density?

In addition, Ra states that the planet/solar system has already begun spiralling into 4th density which is causing inconveniences, so we have already been living through the transition? he also says that the planet finally becoming 4th density is like the clock striking on the hour, which to my mind means sudden/instant.

Questioner: How does a third-density planet become a fourth density planet?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question. The fourth density is, as we have said, as regularized in its approach as the striking of a clock upon the hour.

[Patrick]

Deleted

Sorry Parsons I said I wouldn't do this anymore.

[zenmaster]

Its 'gradual' until the culminating date, and then it makes an 'abrupt' quantum leap. It started long time ago, and the full activation time is drawing closer.

But that is the movement of 4D matter (which is the localized space/time effect of 4D). This means there is a plane of 4D sub-densities in partial activation. Yes, that would be abrupt.
Full activation requires participation from inhabitants (with those energies), which takes quite a long time - hundreds of years.

"At full activation of the true-color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time [100-700 years], shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment."

Thus the transitional body - the so-called "new breed", which is not an overt population nor having overtly obvious abilities, at the present. The environment past quantum jump will probably foster these abilities. I think your confusion stems from assuming "full activation" occurs at the "quantum leap". This is not true.

The environment gradually becomes 4D with 3D moving into potentiation, there is no 3D energy for which to experience catalyst. That is the motivator for "harvest" at the end of the cycle. And is that which takes place at 3D or wanderer's natural death.

---

"artifacts, thoughtforms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced"

will not be in activation either.

I am not sure on Ra's exact definiton of "artifacts" and "thoughtforms" but I would presume they meant everything we have physically created together in third density?

Physical deactivation makes absolutely no sense as a natural process. 3D does not designate 1D material as belonging wholly to 3D, otherwise any thought associated by a 3D being with 1D material would cause it to be 3D - which is a ridiculous proposition.

"3D" is something experienced internally as "mind" and only its effects externally - as a pattern derived from 3D intelligence (i.e. the 3D body). Unconsciously, and consciously we've used the local 3D mind as a resource to enhance our experience here- it's where our collective symbology comes from, what we lean on to evaluate experience when grasping into the unknown for an expression or a way to relate to it. The earth + inhabitants naturally provides the framework for this mind. It is "yellow" training wheels. This is what is going into potentiation. This is also why if there is no solid foundation of yellow personally created (through individuation), that people will revert to "orange" instead of outreaching to "green".

[Parsons]

It's ok my friend, I also stated I would stop arguing about this and worrying about it, yet here I am. All will become clear very, very soon so I don't know why I'm bothering trying to convince anyone. Anyone trying to convince anyone of their own interpretation of the material is using dogma. I certainly don't want to be guilty of that behavior especially considering my background.

[Mcik]

zenmaster, you missed out a key part of that quote:

At this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. However, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. At full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

Surely the new breed are those who are already here for fourth density experience who currently reside in dual activated bodies? why would the mixed yellow/green ray environment "necessitate" the birthing of a transitional body if everybody will still be around after the planet is fully 4D? Ra stated that full activation of the planet will happen after roughly 30yrs (Dec21/2012?) and that the transitional period had already begun in the past.

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in your past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately thirty of your years.

Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Physical deactivation makes absolutely no sense as a natural process. 3D does not designate 1D material as belonging wholly to 3D, otherwise any thought associated by a 3D being with 1D material would cause it to be 3D - which is a ridiculous proposition.

How do you explain Mars then? when we observe it now it's just a barren rock/desert with no signs of there ever having been life and yet Ra says that third density entities lived there before coming to Earth 75,000 years ago?

Questioner: Where did the people who are like us who were the first ones here, where did they come from? From where did they evolve?

Ra: I am Ra. You speak of third-density experience. The first of those to come here were brought from another planet in your solar system called by you the Red Planet, Mars. This planet’s environment became inhospitable to third-density beings.

Questioner: Were the entities of the Red Planet following the Law of One prior to leaving the Red Planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The entities of the Red Planet were attempting to learn the Laws of Love which form one of the primal distortions of the Law of One. However, the tendencies of these people towards bellicose actions caused such difficulties in the atmospheric environment of their planet that it became inhospitable for third-density experience before the end of its cycle. Thus, the Red Planet entities were unharvested and continued in your illusion to attempt to learn the Law of Love.

Questioner: How long ago did this transfer occur from the Red Planet to Earth?

Ra: I am Ra. In your time this transfer occurred approximately 75,000 years ago.

Wouldn't there be at least a few signs of a previous civilization?

I'll admit it's hard to get my head around and even some of things you have said have gone over my head but I'm just giving my interperatation having studied the books without any outside influence. I seem to be coming from the same angle as Vasistha.

[Parsons]

zm has his opinion, we have ours. He doesn't miss anything. The mind will creatively interpret or ignore things (such as sections of the Ra/Q'uo Material) if it doesn't fit in with the crystallized world-view. Short of Ra setting things straight on what they meant, nobody will be convinced if they are at all entrenched. I already called for contact to set things straight and got the gw_v questions thread. Even channeling an 8D source (essentially the Creator) and directly clarifying what will happen does't seem to clear this up. We will just have to wait about 40 days or less to find out the climax of this story.

[zenmaster]

Nope, did not miss it.

Surely the new breed are those who are already here for fourth density experience who currently reside in dual activated bodies?

yes.

why would the mixed yellow/green ray environment "necessitate" the birthing of a transitional body if everybody will still be around after the planet is fully 4D?

Full activation of 4D is not the same as quantum leap to 4D. 4D here "instreams", but does not manifest on its own, but with intelligence from inhabitants. It's just "vibration" in potential. Requires intelligence.

Ra stated that full activation of the planet will happen after roughly 30yrs (Dec21/2012?) and that the transitional period had already begun in the past.

Misinterpretation.... Obviously Ra did not state that full activation will happen after roughly 30 years.

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in your past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately thirty of your years.

Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Doesn't state "fully". So nope.

Physical deactivation makes absolutely no sense as a natural process. 3D does not designate 1D material as belonging wholly to 3D, otherwise any thought associated by a 3D being with 1D material would cause it to be 3D - which is a ridiculous proposition.

How do you explain Mars then? when we observe it now it's just a barren rock/desert with no signs of there ever having been life and yet Ra says that third density entities lived there before coming to Earth 75,000 years ago?

Because 75,000 years (or more) of weathering can completely obliterate any signs of artificial life? Kinda simple if you bother to think about it.

Questioner: Where did the people who are like us who were the first ones here, where did they come from? From where did they evolve?

Ra: I am Ra. You speak of third-density experience. The first of those to come here were brought from another planet in your solar system called by you the Red Planet, Mars. This planet’s environment became inhospitable to third-density beings.

Questioner: Were the entities of the Red Planet following the Law of One prior to leaving the Red Planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The entities of the Red Planet were attempting to learn the Laws of Love which form one of the primal distortions of the Law of One. However, the tendencies of these people towards bellicose actions caused such difficulties in the atmospheric environment of their planet that it became inhospitable for third-density experience before the end of its cycle. Thus, the Red Planet entities were unharvested and continued in your illusion to attempt to learn the Law of Love.

Questioner: How long ago did this transfer occur from the Red Planet to Earth?

Ra: I am Ra. In your time this transfer occurred approximately 75,000 years ago.

Wouldn't there be at least a few signs of a previous civilization?

It depends on the weathering process and the building construction. Now we know there is a great deal of wind and sand.

I'll admit it's hard to get my head around and even some of things you have said have gone over my head but I'm just giving my interperatation having studied the books without any outside influence. I seem to be coming from the same angle as Vasistha.

Which doesn't attempt address anything at all about "abrupt vs gradual". I'm talking about the context of the thread.

---

zm has his opinion, we have ours. He doesn't miss anything. The mind will creatively interpret or ignore things (such as sections of the Ra/Q'uo Material) if it doesn't fit in with the crystallized world-view. Short of Ra setting things straight on what they meant, nobody will be convinced if they are at all entrenched. I already called for contact to set things straight and got the gw_v questions thread. Even channeling an 8D source (essentially the Creator) and directly clarifying what will happen does't seem to clear this up. We will just have to wait about 40 days or less to find out the climax of this story.

You purposely did not say anything one way or the other. You said "we will see" which is what we always do, of course. Being "convinced" vs "entrenched" is 100% meaningless, do you see? Just another artificial dichotomy. Gotta love it.

[Monica]

How do you explain Mars then? when we observe it now it's just a barren rock/desert with no signs of there ever having been life and yet Ra says that third density entities lived there before coming to Earth 75,000 years ago?

The Mars entities failed to graduate, and they made their planet uninhabitable, just as Earth entities have come very close to making our planet uninhabitable (but, hopefully, we have averted).

Also, maybe Mars wasn't due for planetary graduation as Earth is...?

[zenmaster]

BTW, where does it say there was a civilization on Mars 75,000 years ago? It says the entities from Mars were transferred at that time, which corresponded to the start of Earth's 3rd density. Mars could have been uninhabited for much longer prior to the transplantation.

[Ashim]

When we went underground on mars there were comets raining down on the surface of the planet.
There was great panic especially amongst the lemurs as I recall.
The last thing I remember was going through a portal together with a female and a feline.
I'm fairly sure the destruction of the habitable surface of Mars occured quickly and with little notice to the population.
As for dates I'm not sure - seems like yesterday sometimes.

[Monica]

By the way, where does it say there was a civilization on Mars 75,000 years ago? It says the entities from Mars were transferred at that time, which corresponded to the start of Earth's 3rd density. Mars could have been uninhabited for much longer prior to the transplantation.

I don't recall a time given, so yes I agree it could have been uninhabited for a long time.

[zenmaster]

By the way, where does it say there was a civilization on Mars 75,000 years ago? It says the entities from Mars were transferred at that time, which corresponded to the start of Earth's 3rd density. Mars could have been uninhabited for much longer prior to the transplantation.

I don't recall a time given, so yes I agree it could have been uninhabited for a long time.

Actually, it could have become uninhabited before Maldek. Maldek required 2D bodies. Mars required 3D bodies, thus had to wait until the start of the cycle. Also, it may even be the case that 3D-native repeats go to Mars eventually when 3D starts again.

[Ashim]

"Actually, it could have become uninhabited before Maldek. Maldek required 2D bodies. Mars required 3D bodies, thus had to wait until the start of the cycle. Also, it may even be the case that 3D-native repeats go to Mars eventually when 3D starts again."

Spot on - 3d repeats go to 3d Mars.

[Oceania]

noway! i am not going to Mars.

---

Maldek didn't require 2D bodies. Maldek blew up, there were no bodies. just a mass of souls hovering together.

[zenmaster]

noway! i am not going to Mars.

---

Maldek didn't require 2D bodies. Maldek blew up, there were no bodies. just a mass of souls hovering together.

They required 2D bodies after their planet blew up, so they came here.

[Ashim]

You can hit a golf ball for 'miles' on Mars. Makes it alone worth the trip.

[Spaced]

I wonder if it is because they were so tangled in the "knot of fear" that the Maldek entities reverted to 2D patterns of thought and that's why they incarnated here in 2D bodies with 3D intelligence.

[Ashim]

Karmic restitution is the term for this.
You are right - but the knot is also what keeps folks re-incarnating on earth.
It's about the tension of the knot.

[Oceania]

i think it was prolly karmic/preventative. so that they couldn't do more harm. blowing up a planet is major booboo you don't get off with being grounded for a week. they were probably so afraid they wanted to make sure they'd be less bellicose. odd though that they didn't choose a vessel without opposable thumbs.

[zenmaster]

I wonder if it is because they were so tangled in the "knot of fear" that the Maldek entities reverted to 2D patterns of thought and that's why they incarnated here in 2D bodies with 3D intelligence.

They had 2D minds as well, thus 2D intelligence. 3D spirit means their intuition would be informed by prior distilled experience, however.

[Oceania]

you mean 3D souls in 2D minds?

[zenmaster]

you mean 3D souls in 2D minds?

3D spirit complex, 2D body/mind complex. 2D no veil, so all prior knowledge filtered to limited consciousness provided by body. In other words, 'Bigfoot' knows what a 3D appurtunence is through pure feeling.

[Monica]

Also, it may even be the case that 3D-native repeats go to Mars eventually when 3D starts again.

That's an interesting idea. But, it doesn't look anywhere near ready, and Q'uo did mention that another 3D planet was being prepared.

Did Ra or Q'uo ever give any indication that the new 3D planet had to be in our own solar system? I would guess no, since Earth got entities from, what, 13 different planets, and most were from outside this system.

[zenmaster]

Problem is that Q'uo is essentially Carla's transpersonal personality and, given those severe limitations, the info is largely subject to whim and bias.

[Plenum]

Problem is that Q'uo is essentially Carla's transpersonal personality and, given those severe limitations, the info is largely subject to whim and bias.

as a slight tangent, and you can answer in a pm in you want to, what sources of channeled information apart from Ra do you find useful or accurate?

I've read my fair share over the years, and have dipped into most of the ones that have garnered a significant following. But truth be told, only the Ra stuff has stuck. The others have come and gone, been of use, and then fallen by the wayside.

[Monica]

as a slight tangent, and you can answer in a pm in you want to, what sources of channeled information apart from Ra do you find useful or accurate?

I've read my fair share over the years, and have dipped into most of the ones that have garnered a significant following. But truth be told, only the Ra stuff has stuck. The others have come and gone, been of use, and then fallen by the wayside.

Same here. We have a sub-forum dedicated to the discussion of other channeled sources, but I haven't found any of them appealing. (Though, to be fair, I haven't read all of them.) So I too am interested in any others that might be even close to being in the same league as the Ra Material, if anyone has found any.

[zenmaster]

Usefulness and accuracy can often be completely orthogonal as you know. At a certain point some material is more congruent to the worldview. What is profound, numinous, illuminating to one person can be silly and childish to another.Look at what Ra was able to accomplish - introduce fundamental principles in a new, concise, cohesive manner. Nothing tangential, superfluous, partial, colloquial, over affirming, reassuring, over compensating, nor indulging. All of these things find their way into the conscious channel which reeks of huge bias - even though the transpersonal orientation may suggest authority and matter of factness.

[Cimi]

as a slight tangent, and you can answer in a pm in you want to, what sources of channeled information apart from Ra do you find useful or accurate?

I've read my fair share over the years, and have dipped into most of the ones that have garnered a significant following. But truth be told, only the Ra stuff has stuck. The others have come and gone, been of use, and then fallen by the wayside.

Same here. We have a sub-forum dedicated to the discussion of other channeled sources, but I haven't found any of them appealing. (Though, to be fair, I haven't read all of them.) So I too am interested in any others that might be even close to being in the same league as the Ra Material, if anyone has found any.

I know of one if it may be of interest it's not in a sense a channeling like the LOO material was produced. You will understand when you read it.

It's an individual that showed up in 2008 on the forum "Above top secret" and stated he was a "a generational member of a Ruling Bloodline Family" that would answer any questions if they didn't go outside his boundaries. This Q-A session became really interesting and led to the quality of LOO material which is even mentioned by this so called "Hidden-hand" to be one of the most accurate piece of channeled informations we humans have. He estimated it to have an accuracy of around 90%.

I'm new to this forum so if this is a well discussed topic here you know the reason why I'm double posting it. For me it has been a really good eye-opener that really resonates as good as the LOO material, if not better. It gives a very good perspective on what the so-called "Illuminati" really are doing for our population. He even discuss his version of "harvest".

Here is the link: http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html

I hope this will be as a good read as it was for me, if you haven't encountered it before that is.

Namaste

[Ashim]

as a slight tangent, and you can answer in a pm in you want to, what sources of channeled information apart from Ra do you find useful or accurate?

I've read my fair share over the years, and have dipped into most of the ones that have garnered a significant following. But truth be told, only the Ra stuff has stuck. The others have come and gone, been of use, and then fallen by the wayside.

Same here. We have a sub-forum dedicated to the discussion of other channeled sources, but I haven't found any of them appealing. (Though, to be fair, I haven't read all of them.) So I too am interested in any others that might be even close to being in the same league as the Ra Material, if anyone has found any.

I know of one if it may be of interest it's not in a sense a channeling like the LOO material was produced. You will understand when you read it.

It's an individual that showed up in 2008 on the forum "Above top secret" and stated he was a "a generational member of a Ruling Bloodline Family" that would answer any questions if they didn't go outside his boundaries. This Q-A session became really interesting and led to the quality of LOO material which is even mentioned by this so called "Hidden-hand" to be one of the most accurate piece of channeled informations we humans have. He estimated it to have an accuracy of around 90%.

I'm new to this forum so if this is a well discussed topic here you know the reason why I'm double posting it. For me it has been a really good eye-opener that really resonates as good as the LOO material, if not better. It gives a very good perspective on what the so-called "Illuminati" really are doing for our population. He even discuss his version of "harvest".

Here is the link: http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html

I hope this will be as a good read as it was for me, if you haven't encountered it before that is.

Namaste

'He' is a 'she'. Just for the record.