2006.01.01 'Failure' of the plan that this logos chose

[βαθμιαίος]

but, that vividness doesnt make it successful - because as we learn from Ra in many places, accelerated experience in a density, means the need to balance that density in another level.

90.16 Questioner: What was the ultimate objective of this Logos in designing the archetypical mind as It did?

Ra: I am Ra. Each Logos desires to create a more eloquent expression of experience of the Creator by the Creator. The archetypical mind is intended to heighten this ability to express the Creator in patterns more like the fanned peacock’s tail, each facet of the Creator vivid, upright, and shining with articulated beauty.

To me, this suggests that the Logos's plan has been successful, since it has succeeded in creating a vivid creation.

i dont remember saying maldek was negative polarity. im not sure what you are talking about here. these are 3d entities.

Here is what you wrote. It looks to me like you're saying the negatives destroyed Maldek and Atlantis.

in my opinion, the 'negative' polarity, something which actually, logically can not exist and be valid (because nothing can ever strive to be infinite to express the infinity of existence of all of us), needs to be abolished. and i am assuming, it will be abolished.

imagine - they destroyed a planet here (maldek). they have come here, and then created another catastrophe. (atlantis).

are you here by free will?

Yes, of course, and so are you. Let's say we're wanderers; we could easily have left earth to its own devices, to succeed or fail on its own merits. If we're not wanderers, well, it's a big universe. There are lots of other places we could have learned third-density lessons. And we didn't need to choose manifestation at all:

This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things.

Veiling third density isn't taking it out.

the extreme example illustrates the illogicality and lack of wisdom of clogging the natural and free flow of creation's energies. it requires effort to miss the core of the example.

Are you saying I'm trying to be obtuse? I assure you that's not the case.

the 'illusion' you are talking about the 'reality' the infinite intelligence was able to discover.

No, it's the creation our Logos has built for the Creator to experience Itself within.

infinite numbers of finites actually constituting an infinite entity, does not make the finite parts of that entity, that entity itself.

According to Ra, each seemingly finite part is in fact the infinite entity itself. That's what the quote re: holographs below is saying.

'you are here today, but in fact you are' - > no, i am here today, and i am finite. there is no 'in fact' -> that in fact refers to a future timepoint, which has not come to pass yet. and when that future timepoint comes, i will still be finite in this particular space time continuum with the other infinite numbers of finites (all of us) existing as finite in this continuum. when the finiteness ends for this particular creation at the end of this octave, we will return (possibly) to infinity, or (more possibly) to near-infinity, and only then we will be 'all that there is' and infinite.

No, you are infinite right now.

however one thing is for certain, 65 million (the number circa 1980, it was a trend, and its increasing) is a very high number for 6d. if im not mistaken, ra at some point said Ra contained 60 million or so entities. so, that makes this number almost an entire complex.

Actually, their harvest from third density was only six and a half million. But of course, their numbers could have grown since then.

60 million entities, being 3 densities lower than their natural density, is a huge misplacement. the fact that this misplacement may correct an imbalance does not change the fact that, that imbalance, therefore, the need for that misplacement should never have occurred.

I think the need for fifth- and sixth-density wanderers may have more to do with the misguided actions by those formerly known as Yahweh in the transfer of souls from Maldek than with the Logos's plan.

infinity is not a thing, its total stillness. for infinity to happen, all the distortions must meet each other and nullify each other, completing each other. infinity only becomes some 'thing', when a differentiation occurs, like, infinity becoming intelligent, ie, infinite intelligence. (some remembrance of dewey physics here). therefore, even intelligence is a state different from infinity. ra's 'distortion' concept, going to first thought and then balancing all distortions, all point to this. not to mention that the experiences of various masters during meditation, sufis, and various occult and ancient descriptions of relevant experiences.

Actually, in Dewey Larson physics, the natural or undistorted state is flowing outward from all locations. It's not still.

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...3#pid14843
http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1272

If I have time...However, at a quick glance I did notice one thing that seems fundamentally at odds with Ra's description of infinity:

there cant be 'one' entity in infinity. ie, there cant be singleness in infinity.

because for infinity to happen, it needs to be infinite in all respects. being 'one' or 'single' are concepts that are being related to finity, which becomes valid for any entity that is a subset of infinity, therefore finite. it cannot pass valid when infinity is contemplated.

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define the infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity.

Maybe you already addressed this in that thread or another, but your statement seems hard to reconcile with Ra's.

i believe you havent understood the sentence in that answer :

it says, as in an holographic picture. which means, all entities, nomatter how small, contain the one creator which is infinity, as in an holographic picture. not, practically. they carry the image, the model of the creator. and that question was actually contained in a context in which the energy models of entities are discussed, regarding all chakras being present and in potentiation even in 2d single cell organisms.

I think this is the crux of the issue, and I think you are misreading Ra's answer. "As in a holographic picture" means in the same way that each part of a holographic picture contains the whole, so do we. It doesn't mean that we carry a picture of the Creator. It means that we contain the Creator.

'deciding' to do anything would require that something that needs to be done present. something that is perfect, does not decide to do anything, because there is nothing that can be done. even if we go and accept that the creator does not need to know itself, but it just 'merely decides' to, it means that the creator didnt know itself, and, didnt need, but 'decided to' learn itself. that would mean that first, creator doesnt know itself, second, there is something that creator can do, which means that there is something that actually can be done.

which, is far from the state of perfection. in the state of infinity, everything would have been already done, and there should be nothing that could be done.

I think the key is awareness. Ra said infinity became aware. Unaware infinity may be complete and perfect, with nothing needing to be done, but aware infinity decided to investigate finity. Not because it needed to, just because it wanted to.

there cant be a desire, because a desire would necessitate a distortion from the state of infinity - a state in which all desires and their objectives being together.

But according to Ra, that's exactly what happened. Infinity became aware, and Infinite Intelligence determined to investigate a concept it discerned.

stillness is not emptiness, or fullness. it is stillness. in stillness the empty and full also are present, and they cancel out each other. therefore, it is uniform everywhere, and its still.

I think this is an assumption on your part. The infinite is not still in Dewey Larson's physics, and it's not still in Ra's cosmology, at least not once it becomes aware.

if you are infinite whole, please project yourself to our space/time continuum that is to come 2 octaves later than this particular octave's creation we are experiencing, and bring us information from there.

the entity who penetrates intelligent infinity is basically capable of walking the universe with unfettered tread.

if you cant, it means you are not infinite.

Not at all; it just means I haven't penetrated intelligent infinity in a systematic and reproducible way in this incarnation yet.

had you been infinite, you wouldnt even have the need to project yourself actually, you wouldnt be even here, interacting through a computer screen.

Why not? It's how I choose to amuse myself at this point in time.

[unity100]

To me, this suggests that the Logos's plan has been successful, since it has succeeded in creating a vivid creation.

a vivid creation which has given only 250something 4d graduates out of 7 billion and more (counting the maldek, deneb, earth populations) since the last 705,000 years, destroying 2 3d habitation environments. it is possible that there have been more harvested during the period, however, there hasnt been any societal complex grade harvests up till this point. had earth also been destroyed, there wouldnt be any place in this solar system until mars would get rehabilitated (if it can, in the meaningful time) or, pluton gets through 1d, goes to 2d, and goes to 3d. even at that point there wouldnt be any noticeable scale 4d harvests. that would be a very, very long time.

considering the 4d cycle is 30 million years, as Ra says, and pluton would take billions to pass through 1-2d, that would mean that if mars didnt get rehabilitated and start putting out graduates, 4d inhabitants of this solar system would graduate. that means, apart from who was sent to other planets and gets harvested there, and returns to this planet (unlikely, since it seems entities that complete a 3d in a planet that passes to 4d seem to stay there, and entities that get harvested before a planet gets to 4d again are likely to stay there to serve), there wouldnt be any native graduates of this logos to 4d, in its natural way.

that means, there would be a huge time period in which this logos wouldnt be having its own biases, preferences and the facets of existence it was set to discover, represented in 4d vibrations. infinite intelligence is discovering infinite numbers of its aspects through being multiple finites. if a finite fails to discover its own aspects, it becomes an aspect undiscovered. if a finite gets stalled in its discovery, it constitues a failure, imbalance, mishap, or error.

of course, totally leaving out the fact that, had this planet been blasted, there wouldnt be any other planet which would manifest such a 'vivid' 3d manifestation for a long time.

Here is what you wrote. It looks to me like you're saying the negatives destroyed Maldek and Atlantis.

in my opinion, the 'negative' polarity, something which actually, logically can not exist and be valid (because nothing can ever strive to be infinite to express the infinity of existence of all of us), needs to be abolished. and i am assuming, it will be abolished.

imagine - they destroyed a planet here (maldek). they have come here, and then created another catastrophe. (atlantis).

maldek entities had negatively inclined entities among them. actually even this planetary population still has them. the above bit's first paragraph is talks about the negative polarization concept, the second is roughly related to it. maybe i shouldnt have grouped those two one after another, or, the second paragraph should have been expanded in order to signify the difference. the link in between two is that, when negative and positive inclined entities mix in 3d, the result becomes more than a simple mix of 3d entities, especially when technology comes into the mix.

Yes, of course, and so are you. Let's say we're wanderers; we could easily have left earth to its own devices, to succeed or fail on its own merits. If we're not wanderers, well, it's a big universe. There are lots of other places we could have learned third-density lessons. And we didn't need to choose manifestation at all:

[quote='1.5']This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things.

firstly, if we are wanderers, we wouldnt need to learn 3rd density lessons. we cannot make a choice again. it is possible to say that this can be a facility for learning wisdom lessons, and that is plausible.

however, there is this - if we have chosen to fail the earth on its own merits, it would probably mean the obliteration of a huge percentage of the population, or, destruction of the planet and 7 billion + entities going into a state like maldek entities have gone into, for a 'very long time' (we dont know how long did it take).

totally leaving aside the fact that allowing 7 billion entities (approx only 4 of them are natives of this logos, 3 billion seems to be from other places) to get devastated would be a lack of compassion, it would be a huge pain, a spasm, a shock, a trauma in some parts or majority of this galaxy, if that happened. '7 billion souls cried in agony', and in an instant. since all of existence is connected, and thought travels even faster than light (probably instant), this pain, shock, agony would be felt a lot, and we wouldnt know what it would lead to, in regard to time/space consequences.

then again there is also the call and attraction issues. they are in distress, subconsciously calls go out, and it needs to be obeyed. the ones which obey them, 'with their own free will' are the ones whose development and 'galactic' karmic models require them to obey and make them suitable to obey.

so, its not just a 'hey, let me heed this call' choice. it is probably the most strong probability vortex standing in front of us, when we were making a choice. choosing any other would be harder, depending on the strength of other vortexes.

[quote][quote]Veiling third density isn't taking it out.

the extreme example illustrates the illogicality and lack of wisdom of clogging the natural and free flow of creation's energies. it requires effort to miss the core of the example.

Are you saying I'm trying to be obtuse? I assure you that's not the case.[/quote]

you are not providing logic, reasoning behind your arguments. therefore, it becomes rather harder to discuss, and also it becomes unfruitful for the person in front of you, because you dont bring reasons and ideas, it doesnt stimulate thought in the mind of the other person.

it boils down to responding to one liner statements, which were not articulated or argumentated.

[quote]the 'illusion' you are talking about the 'reality' the infinite intelligence was able to discover.

No, it's the creation our Logos has built for the Creator to experience Itself within.[/quote]

we seem to be having a context difference here. when i speak of 'illusion', im speaking of this ENTIRE existence, manifestation, not only this octave, but also all the other octaves.

[quote]infinite numbers of finites actually constituting an infinite entity, does not make the finite parts of that entity, that entity itself.

According to Ra, each seemingly finite part is in fact the infinite entity itself. That's what the quote re: holographs below is saying.[/quote]

despite i have explained that quote to you, i will drop another pointer here in that regard :

if, any finite entity was the infinity itself, there wouldnt be any need to have more than such 'infinite' finite entities.

it would take only 1 entity to manifest, and discover itself, for entire infinity to discover itself.

the very fact that there exists more than 1 finite entity that is actually 'infinite', means that a single finite entity which 'actually' being infinite would not suffice.

that means, a single finite entity is not replaceable for infinity itself.

No, you are infinite right now.

that is the kind of sentences im talking about. there is nothing to respond here, or to talk, or to articulate, or to do anything. nothing that can be used. the only thing that can be responded to is 'no, you are finite', and it would resemble more a bickering than a fruitful discussion.

Actually, their harvest from third density was only six and a half million. But of course, their numbers could have grown since then.

yes, their numbers, have grown.

I think the need for fifth- and sixth-density wanderers may have more to do with the misguided actions by those formerly known as Yahweh in the transfer of souls from Maldek than with the Logos's plan.

while this in itself is another angle and a whole topic in itself, with a high probability, there is also the important consideration about yahweh - what was it that caused them to act this way - getting attached to a certain group of 3d entities with illogical compassion to the point of repeatedly causing the same mistakes over and over. all of the mistakes involve 3d entities, and technology, and its ramifications, blended with unwise levels of compassion and tolerance. it can easily be suspected that, their story also is a result of the general plan of this logos. but again, this is a long topic.

Actually, in Dewey Larson physics, the natural or undistorted state is flowing outward from all locations. It's not still.

yes it is. however, it is the point where dewey's physics start. it is, as Ra states, the opening stages of this understanding, however it is suitable and acceptably advanced for earth civilization here.

as you can understand from here, im not basing the explanation of infinity entirely on dewey's physics. it is very useful for explaining various parts of it.

[quote]http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1143&pid=14843#pid14843
http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1272

If I have time...However, at a quick glance I did notice one thing that seems fundamentally at odds with Ra's description of infinity:

there cant be 'one' entity in infinity. ie, there cant be singleness in infinity.

because for infinity to happen, it needs to be infinite in all respects. being 'one' or 'single' are concepts that are being related to finity, which becomes valid for any entity that is a subset of infinity, therefore finite. it cannot pass valid when infinity is contemplated.

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define the infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity.

Maybe you already addressed this in that thread or another, but your statement seems hard to reconcile with Ra's.[/quote]

there is nothing to reconcile - i dont agree with Ra at that :

during the courses of harmonizations, infinite entities harmonizing to a great extent that, seeming to act like a single entity to an outside observer, hides the fact that that harmonized, singular looking entity in fact comprises of infinite numbers of entities, or aspects.

this is the very reason that, this singular looking entity is discovering infinite aspects of itself in an infinite creation ; it has infinite numbers of aspects, facets, within.

I think this is the crux of the issue, and I think you are misreading Ra's answer. "As in a holographic picture" means in the same way that each part of a holographic picture contains the whole, so do we. It doesn't mean that we carry a picture of the Creator. It means that we contain the Creator.

had it been such, there would be no need for more than one entity to manifest. because, it would contain all the creator, and discovery of that singular entity would mean that all was discovered. there wouldnt be any need for infinite numbers of such holographic pictures to exist, because, none of them would be different, since they all would be containing the infinity in the same way infinity itself is. one discovery would be enough.

the possibility of every such entity being infinite towards its inwards, does not mean that they also encompass the others. there are other such 'infinite' finite entities aside from you, and their numbers are infinite. that means, infinite numbers of finite entities make up infinity. and one 'infinite' finite entity, cannot replace for all of it.

I think the key is awareness. Ra said infinity became aware. Unaware infinity may be complete and perfect, with nothing needing to be done, but aware infinity decided to investigate finity. Not because it needed to, just because it wanted to.

'unaware' infinity is not a possibility, because, for infinity to be infinity, it also needs to encompass the concepts 'aware' and 'unaware'. because otherwise, it wouldnt be infinity.

so, anything that is different from the state of infinity, becomes a subset of infinity.

But according to Ra, that's exactly what happened. Infinity became aware, and Infinite Intelligence determined to investigate a concept it discerned.

please refer to the above block.

I think this is an assumption on your part. The infinite is not still in Dewey Larson's physics, and it's not still in Ra's cosmology, at least not once it becomes aware.

i have noted that i am not basing all my thoughts on dewey, also, im not agreeing with Ra in everything.

[quote]if you are infinite whole, please project yourself to our space/time continuum that is to come 2 octaves later than this particular octave's creation we are experiencing, and bring us information from there.

the entity who penetrates intelligent infinity is basically capable of walking the universe with unfettered tread.

if you cant, it means you are not infinite.

Not at all; it just means I haven't penetrated intelligent infinity in a systematic and reproducible way in this incarnation yet.[/quote]

that means, you do not even encompass the state of you which has penetrated intelligent infinity in a systematic and reproducible way in your current incarnation.

therefore, there are things you are not able to encompass, therefore, you are finite.

[quote]had you been infinite, you wouldnt even have the need to project yourself actually, you wouldnt be even here, interacting through a computer screen.

Why not? It's how I choose to amuse myself at this point in time.
[/quote]

had you been infinity, you wouldnt choose to amuse yourself, because, you would already contain your amused, and unamused states, not to mention that you would have chosen everything all at the same time ; including choosing not to amuse yourself.

however, you do not. you still make choices, there are still 'choices' you can make. of course, if we take 'choice' as an explanation for not containing any of the above concepts/states within yourself in a manifesting and total manner.

in actuality, you do not encompass, contain those concepts, aspects, or states. hence, you are finite.

[βαθμιαίος]

a vivid creation which has given only 250something 4d graduates out of 7 billion and more (counting the maldek, deneb, earth populations) since the last 705,000 years, destroying 2 3d habitation environments. it is possible that there have been more harvested during the period, however, there hasnt been any societal complex grade harvests up till this point. had earth also been destroyed, there wouldnt be any place in this solar system until mars would get rehabilitated (if it can, in the meaningful time) or, pluton gets through 1d, goes to 2d, and goes to 3d. even at that point there wouldnt be any noticeable scale 4d harvests. that would be a very, very long time.

First, earth's harvest hasn't happened yet. We don't know how many will be harvested.

Second, Ra is also part of our solar system, so you should include their experience.

More importantly, you are equating numbers with success. Ra says, "if one is enlightened, are not all enlightened?" Perhaps our Logos was only aiming for small harvests of vivid entities.

Fourth, you mean Uranus, not Pluto.

considering the 4d cycle is 30 million years, as Ra says, and pluton would take billions to pass through 1-2d, that would mean that if mars didnt get rehabilitated and start putting out graduates, 4d inhabitants of this solar system would graduate. that means, apart from who was sent to other planets and gets harvested there, and returns to this planet (unlikely, since it seems entities that complete a 3d in a planet that passes to 4d seem to stay there, and entities that get harvested before a planet gets to 4d again are likely to stay there to serve), there wouldnt be any native graduates of this logos to 4d, in its natural way.

Are you forgetting earth? There will most likely be a harvest here, although it may of course be small.

if a finite gets stalled in its discovery, it constitues a failure, imbalance, mishap, or error.

Not necessarily. Ra says "the experiences are this distortion" (meaning free will). It may be that the seeming failure is in fact a success in that it has offered to the Creator an extremely intense, bright, and, yes, vivid opportunity to experience itself.

firstly, if we are wanderers, we wouldnt need to learn 3rd density lessons.

You misread what I wrote. I said if we're third density, there are lots of other places we could learn third-density lessons.

however, there is this - if we have chosen to fail the earth on its own merits, it would probably mean the obliteration of a huge percentage of the population, or, destruction of the planet and 7 billion + entities going into a state like maldek entities have gone into, for a 'very long time' (we dont know how long did it take).

Possibly. We don't know if that would have happened; it still might. However, without wanderers aiding technological development it's likely that the ability to blow up the planet would not have been developed.

so, its not just a 'hey, let me heed this call' choice. it is probably the most strong probability vortex standing in front of us, when we were making a choice. choosing any other would be harder, depending on the strength of other vortexes.

Quite possibly, but you are now acknowledging that it was a free will choice.

you are not providing logic, reasoning behind your arguments. therefore, it becomes rather harder to discuss, and also it becomes unfruitful for the person in front of you, because you dont bring reasons and ideas, it doesnt stimulate thought in the mind of the other person.

Hmm, well I guess if you find my posts annoying or illogical it gives you fodder for your balancing meditations.

we seem to be having a context difference here. when i speak of 'illusion', im speaking of this ENTIRE existence, manifestation, not only this octave, but also all the other octaves.

Actually, you were speaking about 'reality.' I was saying it's illusion. So we agree?

despite i have explained that quote to you

As have I explained it to you. I will try again. The phrase "as in an holographic picture" is illustrative. It does not change the meaning of the sentence. "...any portion, no matter how small, of any density ... contains ... the One Creator which is infinity."

if, any finite entity was the infinity itself, there wouldnt be any need to have more than such 'infinite' finite entities.

No one is claiming that there is a need for more than one finite entity. The point is that the Creator decided to amuse itself by exploring its infinite selfhood. There's no need involved. In order to explore, it thought it a good idea to create seemingly finite parts of itself. Not because it needed to; just because it wanted to. But it's an illusion. The parts aren't actually finite and there is only one.

that means, a single finite entity is not replaceable for infinity itself.

The idea isn't that the single finite entity is replaceable for infinity, it's that the single seemingly finite entity contains infinity.

yes, their numbers, have grown.

How do you know?

while this in itself is another angle and a whole topic in itself

I agree that it could be its own thread, but it's relevant to this thread because of the possibility that it explains much of what you seem to find unsatisfactory about how the Logos's plan has played out here on earth.

there is also the important consideration about yahweh - what was it that caused them to act this way - getting attached to a certain group of 3d entities with illogical compassion to the point of repeatedly causing the same mistakes over and over.

How do you know it was illogical compassion that caused the one formerly known as Yahweh to take the actions it did?

Actually, in Dewey Larson physics, the natural or undistorted state is flowing outward from all locations. It's not still.

yes it is. however, it is the point where dewey's physics start. it is, as Ra states, the opening stages of this understanding, however it is suitable and acceptably advanced for earth civilization here.

Do you mean "yes, it is still," or "yes, it is flowing outward from all locations?"

there is nothing to reconcile - i dont agree with Ra at that :

It seems like a fundamental disagreement. Ra says the corollary of infinity is unity; that's the premise and the basis of their message of the Law of One.

had it been such, there would be no need for more than one entity to manifest. because, it would contain all the creator, and discovery of that singular entity would mean that all was discovered. there wouldnt be any need for infinite numbers of such holographic pictures to exist, because, none of them would be different, since they all would be containing the infinity in the same way infinity itself is. one discovery would be enough.

The beginning and end is the same for all entities; it's the journey between that's infinitely varied, rich, and vivid.

'unaware' infinity is not a possibility, because, for infinity to be infinity, it also needs to encompass the concepts 'aware' and 'unaware'. because otherwise, it wouldnt be infinity.

And yet, Ra said "infinity became aware," clearly implying that there was a state in which infinity was not aware. Similarly, they state that first density replicates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness.

i have noted that i am not basing all my thoughts on dewey, also, im not agreeing with Ra in everything.

I guess I'm wondering what you do agree with Ra about, in terms of the big picture.

that means, you do not even encompass the state of you which has penetrated intelligent infinity in a systematic and reproducible way in your current incarnation.

Not at all. It just means I don't have readily available access to that state.

in actuality, you do not encompass, contain those concepts, aspects, or states. hence, you are finite.

Ra says, "you are infinite." You say, "you are finite." I guess the choice is clear.

[unity100]

i have read your reply, and i see that further replies by me is just going to get into repetition. with a few exceptions, almost all of your arguments and propositions were discussed in this thread and a few others already. repetition at this point is going to be unfruitful. i will only comment on the below bit, since it is important.

Hmm, well I guess if you find my posts annoying or illogical it gives you fodder for your balancing meditations.

we are participating in this forum in discussion of Ra material, in order to further our knowledge of it. in that regard, while discussing with others, meeting with posts that only contain 'no you arent', 'no it isnt' type single sentences or short retorts without argument, reasoning, reference, insight, any kind of blue ray effort, and having to reply to this with more blue ray effort of one's own, is not only one sided, but most importantly, unfruitful. co-learning of this type, is an activity in which both sides participate, enriching each other.

i am participating here for this. thus, im finding discussing with you rather unproductive. no offense. therefore, i will prefer to opt out from discussing with you, until i get an impression to the contrary. im in no way asking you to change yourself, your demeanor, or your approach here. they are your preferences. however, as said, i am going to exercise my own preference and opt out. im not saying that i may not reply to any post of yours, in which i feel - nomatter how subjective - there is effort to share involved though. but very probably if the exchange returns to one liner, short retorts again, i will probably end it again.

have a nice day.

[βαθμιαίος]

Actually, I put a great deal of effort into attempting to understand what you were trying to say in your post and in responding, as best I could, to each point you made. In the process, I uncovered significant differences in what you are saying from what Ra was saying, which I am now asking you to clarify. I hope that you will do so.

I am somewhat at a disadvantage in that I only have limited time to read and reply to posts on this forum. That's why I asked you to summarize your thoughts earlier. You said that your thoughts have not changed since your first post and directed me to read the first two pages, which I did. By the way, the fact that your thoughts have not changed since your first post suggests that you have not gained much from the dialog in this thread.

I admit that I haven't read pages three through six of this thread. It may well be that you have answered all the questions and objections that I asked and posed above. If so, I apologize for asking them again. Nevertheless, since you are the one who is posing an interpretation that seems to be significantly at variance with Ra's, I do think it is appropriate for you to do the work of elaborating on your theory and for me, who basically has no problem with Ra's cosmology, to investigate, attempt to understand, and point out the differences between what you are saying and what Ra said. In many cases, those differences can be indicated in one line or in a few words.

[unity100]

Actually, I put a great deal of effort into attempting to understand what you were trying to say in your post and in responding, as best I could, to each point you made. In the process, I uncovered significant differences in what you are saying from what Ra was saying, which I am now asking you to clarify. I hope that you will do so.

i have already mentioned that i have differences in perspective with Ra on certain points, and i have repeated this in whenever i talk on those subjects. as for clarification :

I am somewhat at a disadvantage in that I only have limited time to read and reply to posts on this forum. That's why I asked you to summarize your thoughts earlier.

I admit that I haven't read pages three through six of this thread. It may well be that you have answered all the questions and objections that I asked and posed above. If so, I apologize for asking them again. Nevertheless, since you are the one who is posing an interpretation that seems to be significantly at variance with Ra's, I do think it is appropriate for you to do the work of elaborating on your theory and for me, who basically has no problem with Ra's cosmology, to investigate, attempt to understand, and point out the differences between what you are saying and what Ra said. In many cases, those differences can be indicated in one line or in a few words.

i understand your position, but, this is not something that can just be interpreted in a small paragraph. had it been, there wouldnt be a 7 page discussion ensuing over it in the first place. you will find that some of the posts i posted in earlier pages are even longer than what i posted on this page, and the energy put into them are quite high order. it is not something that can be just summed into a small post. any kind if condensing will miss a lot of the reasons and logic and therefore will look dud itself, giving a wrong impression. i dont think i can help you with your time issue here.

You said that your thoughts have not changed since your first post and directed me to read the first two pages, which I did. By the way, the fact that your thoughts have not changed since your first post suggests that you have not gained much from the dialog in this thread.

was it supposed to ?

[yossarian]

What about negative harvests?

Let's assume that without wanderers it's essentially impossible for positive harvests to occur.

Why not negative harvests though? It seems that earth experience teaches people to be negative. Protect yourself, only give when it's likely to benefit you, etc.

If wanderers had not stepped in and offered technology, the negative would not have had the ability to destroy themselves. They would have just engaged in lots and lots of warfare and all the souls would learn to negatively polarize.

Instead, we are born into this Earth where all social systems are set up to reward negative behaviour and even with an assumption of negative behaviour. Then we are bombarded with messages about positivity by entities such as Ra and Jesus. What if these entities just left the earth alone? An eye for an eye would occur but the whole world would not be left blind. Eventually some equilibrium would be achieved where power balances out power, not unlike the mutually assured destruction scenario between the USSR and the USA.

Heavy veil and heavy free will seems like a recipe to produce a few saints and a lot of negative graduates. Maybe the earth is really meant to be a massively negative harvest and all the positive entities interfering are just reducing the harvest.

I mean Christianity has been vigorously brainwashing people to love their neighbours for a long time now. What has this achieved? Mainly, it has enabled negative folks to enslave.

The Christians go about loving their neighbour with faith while the cynical negatives laugh and enslave them and feel completely justified in doing it because the Christians are so stupid.

If someone comes to me in real life and asks for my advice, I never tell them to love their neighbour because that will probably result in them being exploited. I try to love my neighbour as far as my life goes, but first I teach others to defend themselves. Most people on earth have issues with self-defense. The good people, the noble and honest ones, are abused again and again and then taught to just turn the other cheek which, again and again, encourages the offenders.

If you want to talk about a lack of wisdom, the lack of wisdom is teaching people pacifism. Teaching people not to defend themselves.

This heavy veil would not cause nearly as much suffering if people were not being brainwashed into turning the other cheek. If people recognized their self worth and started sticking up for themselves the negatives would become a non-issue in about two seconds.

Instead, our supposedly altruistic institutions based on positive beings like Jesus are used as the very tools of enslavement. Negative adepts like it when people are taught positive polarity because it just creates hordes of easily manipulated sheep.

If the issue is that all these souls are stuck in 3D, why do higher beings insist on giving positive advice? Why not just let them polarize negatively and escape 3D?

It apparently takes like 100 million wanderers just to increase the positive harvest by some tiny amount. What if those wanderers taught negative polarity instead of positive? Our current Luciferian social structure (e.g. the economic system) is based on the assumption that the members are negative polarity. What if we worked with this instead of against it?

As a wealthy human in the first world, when I look at the suffering humans throughout the earth, I don't see their solution as being any form of positive philosophy or positive polarity. I see their solution as being:

1. Feeling of self-worth and willingness to prioritize self-interest
2. Willingness and ability to defend themselves
3. Demand, not request, to be treated appropriately by others, at threat of violence.

These things lift people out of poverty and suffering. What positive polarity philosophy teaches these things?

I see Luciferians teaching these concepts but they are not emphasized by Ra or Jesus or Buddha. Quite the opposite.

So far in the history of the earth, positive philosophy is mainly used as a weapon to enslave. Slaves don't polarize. But negative adepts, fighting with other negative adepts, do polarize.

It just occurred to me that while I believe in positive philosophy for myself, I don't teach it to others. Rather I teach almost everyone else a negative philosophy precisely because I believe it will be of the most use to them and lead them out of suffering and out of their downward spirals and cycles of malaise.

[unity100]

Instead, our supposedly altruistic institutions based on positive beings like Jesus are used as the very tools of enslavement. Negative adepts like it when people are taught positive polarity because it just creates hordes of easily manipulated sheep.

the problem is, people do not turn their other cheeks, out of free will. its not like they are consciously realizing the state and nature of the world they are in, and still accepting its conditions as it is, and acting as their free will wants.

ie, there are few entities who are seeing the negative format of the society we are living in, understanding and accepting the conditions, but refusing to participate in it, and doing as their free will desires, giving out freely.

all those neighbors who are loving their neighbors, are participating in the enslavement scheme of the world. and even raising their kids, to be good participants in that scheme, thinking it to be raising good citizens.

its not like they have been turned to sheep with positive philosophy - they were not able to realize that what is happening was something self centered, from the start in the first place. positive philosophy just helps it cement.

It apparently takes like 100 million wanderers just to increase the positive harvest by some tiny amount. What if those wanderers taught negative polarity instead of positive? Our current Luciferian social structure (e.g. the economic system) is based on the assumption that the members are negative polarity. What if we worked with this instead of against it?

we know that earth entities, in core (in spirit) are in majority, positive.

this is the root of the problem - a negative society is placed on top of positive entities. society can neither go negative, nor positive, because of that.

As a wealthy human in the first world, when I look at the suffering humans throughout the earth, I don't see their solution as being any form of positive philosophy or positive polarity. I see their solution as being:

1. Feeling of self-worth and willingness to prioritize self-interest
2. Willingness and ability to defend themselves
3. Demand, not request, to be treated appropriately by others, at threat of violence.

how about the wealthy humans in the first world waking up and realizing that they are living and enjoying a negative enslavement scheme, and refusing to participate in it, as it should have been from the start, therefore ending the negative enslavement scheme ?

an empire continues until it is destroyed by another empire, or the participants in the empire start refusing participating in it.

So far in the history of the earth, positive philosophy is mainly used as a weapon to enslave. Slaves don't polarize. But negative adepts, fighting with other negative adepts, do polarize.

It just occurred to me that while I believe in positive philosophy for myself, I don't teach it to others. Rather I teach almost everyone else a negative philosophy precisely because I believe it will be of the most use to them and lead them out of suffering and out of their downward spirals and cycles of malaise.

one of the main problems here, is technology and tool usage.

tools amplify the power of its user to many magnitudes of what it would be without a tool. a monkey with a club in his hand and a monkey without, are too different.

and there are no clubs anymore - there are tesla devices, psychotronic devices, this that.

this planet has been given tools before it made a choice, and chose a path.

and bellicose elements in society are able to keep the rest under control through those tools, without polarizing themselves, or allowing the others to polarize.

[Confused]

infinite numbers of finites actually constituting an infinite entity, does not make the finite parts of that entity, that entity itself.

This is actually a deep point. May be acceptance of it is difficult due to ego hassles.

However, I am not able to square that sort of lived insight with the following LOO statement (extracted from 1.5) -

You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

[yossarian]

the problem is, people do not turn their other cheeks, out of free will. its not like they are consciously realizing the state and nature of the world they are in, and still accepting its conditions as it is, and acting as their free will wants.

ie, there are few entities who are seeing the negative format of the society we are living in, understanding and accepting the conditions, but refusing to participate in it, and doing as their free will desires, giving out freely.

all those neighbors who are loving their neighbors, are participating in the enslavement scheme of the world. and even raising their kids, to be good participants in that scheme, thinking it to be raising good citizens.

its not like they have been turned to sheep with positive philosophy - they were not able to realize that what is happening was something self centered, from the start in the first place. positive philosophy just helps it cement.

we know that earth entities, in core (in spirit) are in majority, positive.

this is the root of the problem - a negative society is placed on top of positive entities. society can neither go negative, nor positive, because of that.

Are any entities truly negative?

I guess my understanding of humans is that if they are anything they are adaptable. Humans today in my view are rapidly adapting to the Luciferian way of life, which is based on selfishness and a position in a hierarchy.

Lots of positive people are learning ways to fit into this system. Are you sure that each entity is inherently positive or negative? There may be a bias - but isn't any entity capable of going either way?

A perfect example is where Ra talks about how a positive entity who is dragged into negative space will be forced to negatively polarize.

how about the wealthy humans in the first world waking up and realizing that they are living and enjoying a negative enslavement scheme, and refusing to participate in it, as it should have been from the start, therefore ending the negative enslavement scheme ?

an empire continues until it is destroyed by another empire, or the participants in the empire start refusing participating in it.

This only works if we actively stop the negatives doing the exploitation.

Our current society has made progress with things like reducing the amount of 3rd world sweatshop labour. But ultimately if some person in the West wants sweatshop labour, they can get it. Non-participation with evil is not enough when you're talking about them exploiting someone else.

There are essentially 3 kinds of people in this scenario:

A) The exploiter who has the distortion towards wanting to dominate.
B) The exploited who has the distortion towards allowing himself to be dominated.
C) The third party.

C chooses not to participate with A. But this doesn't stop the exploitation.

There are 2 ways to stop the exploitation.

1. C uses force to stop A. Passes a law saying it's illegal and executes/incarcerates A.
2. B uses force to stand up for himself.

The problem in the West today is that C people don't even know there is exploitation going on. It happens in secret. It happens beyond their conscious awareness.

Ultimately you have to admit that people are complicit in their own enslavement. They are boiled gradually like a frog. Wisdom would solve their problem - they would become conscious of the exploitation and learn that it is right to fight back against it. Love just compounds the problem because, without wisdom, it leads to offering the self up to be exploited. Wisdom without love is negative polarity.

Anyway I guess my thinking has just returned me to my original point - the standard spiritual diet of 4D love is not helpful to the masses of sufferers on earth and does not lead to them progressing. It neither improves their lives nor aids in polarization. What was the point of Jesus when the message just goes over everyone's head and gets misinterpreted as a call to allow yourself to be abused?

Again, it seems like negative philosophy - a philosophy that deals with selfishness and wisdom - is a solution for the great masses on Earth while positive philosophy goes nowhere.

one of the main problems here, is technology and tool usage.

tools amplify the power of its user to many magnitudes of what it would be without a tool. a monkey with a club in his hand and a monkey without, are too different.

and there are no clubs anymore - there are tesla devices, psychotronic devices, this that.

this planet has been given tools before it made a choice, and chose a path.

and bellicose elements in society are able to keep the rest under control through those tools, without polarizing themselves, or allowing the others to polarize.

It's not even bellicose elements. It's wanderers who are smart enough to use the technology to enslave. Are Luciferians bellicose? Not really, they enslave without delivering a single blow. And when they do need to fight they do it by proxy through countless intermediaries.

It's wanderers who have enslaved humanity. Wanderers who turned evil. Maybe the situation is better than it was pre-wanderers though.

[unity100]

infinite numbers of finites actually constituting an infinite entity, does not make the finite parts of that entity, that entity itself.

This is actually a deep point. May be acceptance of it is difficult due to ego hassles.

However, I am not able to square that sort of lived insight with the following LOO statement (extracted from 1.5) -

You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

yeah, the problem is, despite the quote you have put forth, there are also quotes form Ra in the below form.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#23

62.23 Questioner: Isn’t this unusual that a fifth-density entity then would bother to do this rather than sending a fourth-density servant, shall I say?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Nearly all positive channels and groups may be lessened in their positivity or rendered quite useless by what we may call the temptations offered by the fourth-density negative thought-forms. They may suggest many distortions towards specific information, towards the aggrandizement of the self, towards the flowering of the organization in some political, social, or fiscal way.

These distortions remove the focus from the One Infinite Source of love and light of which we are all messengers, humble and knowing that we, of ourselves, are but the tiniest portion of the Creator, a small part of a magnificent entirety of infinite intelligence.

Are any entities truly negative?

depends on what you mean by truly.

I guess my understanding of humans is that if they are anything they are adaptable. Humans today in my view are rapidly adapting to the Luciferian way of life, which is based on selfishness and a position in a hierarchy.

Lots of positive people are learning ways to fit into this system. Are you sure that each entity is inherently positive or negative? There may be a bias - but isn't any entity capable of going either way?

firstly, it is to the contrary - people are not adapting into the negative society. that is evidenced by the unwillingness, slacking, withdrawal of a lot of people from the system as much as they can.

if we come to the question whether each entity is inherently positive, or negative, it seems so :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#22

We perceive an unclear statement. The polarity of Potentiator is there not for the Matrix to choose. It is there for the Matrix to accept as given.

Our current society has made progress with things like reducing the amount of 3rd world sweatshop labour. But ultimately if some person in the West wants sweatshop labour, they can get it. Non-participation with evil is not enough when you're talking about them exploiting someone else.

The problem in the West today is that C people don't even know there is exploitation going on. It happens in secret. It happens beyond their conscious awareness.

the problem is not sweatshop labor. the problem is, the negative oriented system which allows and encourages entities to make others work for them.

so, the problem is right in front of the eyes of the western people, actually, they are living in it every day, however, they just accepted it as normal way of life, actually even 'freedom'. hence, they participate in it. they are either made work for others, or, make others work for them, and all eventually works for those higher in economic hierarchy than them.

Again, it seems like negative philosophy - a philosophy that deals with selfishness and wisdom - is a solution for the great masses on Earth while positive philosophy goes nowhere.

problem is, there is no possibility to make choice in this planet under these conditions. you cannot go to an isolated place, and live in your own way. those wanting to dominate can easily reach anywhere, and have the tools and technology to do so.

appallingly, this technology was given by wanderers trying to help the planet.

notice how Ra says isolation was possible, while speaking about the 150 entities which were harvested in second cycle.

had these entities had to deal with wandering aggressors or others wanting to dominate them, it is questionable that they would be able to get harvested either.

t's not even bellicose elements. It's wanderers who are smart enough to use the technology to enslave.

this statement sounds misplaced, you should provide reasoning for this. remember how disability kicked in, as preplanned prior to incarnation, when franklin d roosevelt started to enjoy the struggles of politics too much.

[Confused]

yeah, the problem is, despite the quote you have put forth, there are also quotes form Ra in the below form.

Got to agree with you there. Yes, there seem to be seemingly contradictory statements. As you said in some other area, there are indeed many pitfalls on the spiritual path. Thanks for your contributions, which is bringing light to other individuals on these forums. I know for sure that it is the case with me.

[kycahi]

We have negativity and negativity. I look at sweatshops and third world lives as opportunities for experience. They aren't great, not even good some places, but they are not, IMHO, necessarily the failure of STO. They may be the result of STS influences; probably are, but not large populations of STS people or STS wannabes.

For a few years I trained in Aikido, a fighting art from Japan. The goal of this art is to transfer your attacker to the ground without injury. The guy who started Aikido was actually a scrapper. He loved arguments and brawls, and became excellent in Judo, a throwing art, and Kendo, a sword art.

An old friend/enemy from his youth showed up and they drank tea, reminisced and then got into a fierce fight. They early killed each other and stopped when they simultaneously realized that something very special was going on--neither was winning and neither wanted to. That fight was the origin of Aikido.

Aikido calls the person being attacked the "thrower" and the one attacking the "faller." The thrower is one with the Universe and nobody can possibly beat the Universe. Further, the Universe doesn't need to be angry with the faller, who will end up on the ground anyway. Some Aikido instruction describes these encounters as "divine reconciliation." So something that had origins in fighting became a method to teach respect and forgiveness.

The Confederation (or Somebody High Up) determined that a messy, bellicose 3D world enhances harvests, be they STS or STO, and who am I to disagree? Count me on the side of STO, but all are on the One team when we discount the illusion.

Wanderers can do more than offer examples of unconditional selflessness. Offer catalyst that nudges the great unwashed toward STO or, at least, shows that mean behavior is a hard road to travel.

[Confused]

yes, you are infinite in your inner planes, in your inner densities in your densities, you are probably a macro creature to those that may probably exist in your inner planes, but, there is a whole other infinity OUTSIDE you, that contains you.

Somehow you give me the feeling that you understand the concept of infinity very well. I wonder whether the following words of Ra would apply to an individual such as yourself -

When your peoples grasp infinity, then and only then, can the gateway be opened to the Law of One. (from 7.12)

What does 'opening the gateway' mean, incidentally? I do not know.

[Tenet Nosce]

What does 'opening the gateway' mean, incidentally? I do not know.

I would like to know as well.

[Oceania]

i hate being here. i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession. there's no true freedom here.

[Confused]

i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession.

I like that, Oceania. Yes, the message to them is that please do not treat us as objects, which reeks of condescension.

[zenmaster]

i hate being here. i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession. there's no true freedom here.

Ah, but there is. Even the freedom to create a false reality where there is no true freedom.

[Tenet Nosce]

i hate being here. i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession. there's no true freedom here.

Oceania... may I humbly observe that such a strong charge against being here in this place might actually result in a barrier to your leaving in a peaceful manner?

It sounds to me like you are forgetting your choice to come here.

[Tenet Nosce]

What does 'opening the gateway' mean, incidentally? I do not know.

I would like to know as well.

Questioner: Then I would guess that the twenty-first archetype would represent contact with intelligent infinity. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct, although one may also see the reflection of this contact as well as the contact with intelligent energy which is the Universe or, as you have called it somewhat provincially, the World.

Questioner: Then by this contact also with intelligent energy can you give me an example of what this would be for both the contact with intelligent infinity and the contact with intelligent energy? Could you give me an example of what type of experience this would result in, if that is at all possible?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last query of this working of full length. We have discussed the possibilities of contact with intelligent energy, for this energy is the energy of the Logos, and thus it is the energy which heals, builds, removes, destroys, and transforms all other-selves as well as the self.

The contact with intelligent infinity is most likely to produce an unspeakable joy in the entity experiencing such contact. If you wish to query in more detail upon this subject, we invite you to do so in another working. Is there a brief query before we close this working?

Unspeakable joy. Interesting. Also interesting is that there are other possibilities.

[3DMonkey]

It is the 'unexplainable moment'. It is the elation after reading LOO for the first time. It is countless other examples when cognition moves out of our way to receive something more.... more..... beautiful.

[Tenet Nosce]

It is the 'unexplainable moment'. It is the elation after reading LOO for the first time. It is countless other examples when cognition moves out of our way to receive something more.... more..... beautiful.

Do you know what I am finding interesting about the Q'uo sessions. How the individual questions all seem to be related to one another. When I consider the entire session as a whole, I find other pieces to puzzles I have been working on. It really is an extremely interesting process for me.

January 1, 2006

Group question: The question today, Q’uo, has to do with information that you gave some time ago concerning the end of third density and the beginning of fourth density. We’re wondering if there is any reason for us to be afraid of anything that’s going to occur then. Everything that we know is going to come to an end, as we know it, in third density. An entirely new fourth-density vibration is coming in, entirely new ways of looking at things, of doing and being. Is there any reason for fear?

We are pleased, indeed, that groups such as yours all over the planet have enabled the third-density structure they do now enjoy as they have. It is extremely likely at this point that your population shall be able to enjoy uninterrupted and comfortable incarnations at the end of which lies the opportunity to choose the next classroom which you feel that you would best enjoy working in.

We thank each heart that beats, “love, love, love.”

We can say unequivocally that there is no reason to have fear [while] phasing out the stunning changes that are taking place on your planet at this time.

One reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. As the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. Therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet Earth. Consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes.

In terms of your living out your natural life, there is no physical catastrophe that is necessary in order to express the changes that the planet is going through. Humankind is another story in terms of the possibility of planetary disaster. The planet itself does not need to extinguish itself in order for fourth density to emerge.

Where in your energy do you see the desire to destroy rather than communicate, to blow something up rather than take the long and sometimes messy route of discussion and heartfelt reaction that results in creating light where there was darkness, love where there was bitterness, and so forth?

In terms of what is happening to the planet, the third-density planet Earth on which you live is gradually exhausting its capacity to offer an environment in which third-density entities can incarnate.

It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years.

Those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet Earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as Dewey. It is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. This is perfectly in order.

The key error among your peoples has been to forget that all things are one. It is a very simple truth. There are many, many ways to say this truth. But you are part of the entity sitting next to you, the entity on the other side of the world, the ground that lies closest to your feet at this time, and the ground of the entire planet. All of these energies coalesce within your energy system. You are the Earth, just as you are the creation. The kind of healing that has this karmic tang to it is that healing into the realization that is heart-deep: that you are part of all that there is and that you are able to interact as a steward with the Earth around you.

Eventually, your planet will no longer be able to sustain the evolutionary energy necessary to live a third-density life. Once this has occurred and there are no longer any third-density entities dwelling on the planet, fourth density will indeed become able not only to interpenetrate third density but to appear. At this point in its development, all of fourth density chooses not to appear. It chooses to remain as an unseen energy in order to allow the third-density entities to complete their patterns.

What is done is what is perfect to have been done. That is a way to look at a life’s work. Otherwise you can indeed create concerns for yourself where there is truly no concern.

We do not see this event as being one that needs to be feared at all. We see it as part of a benign and healthy pattern.

Certainly, when the time nears midnight, entities will become more focused on that moment when today becomes tomorrow and a new beginning proceeds. We encourage you to enjoy the dawning of this new day.

You cannot become a fourth-density entity within third density.

There is a fine balance between this kind of work which is helpful and too much of this kind of work which creates a situation in which you really don’t know who you are because you’re too busy trying to control your thoughts to be a certain way. We do not encourage that.

What we encourage is a living, plastic, yeasty kind of process in which you are able to become aware of your thoughts and to sit with them and let them show you what your inner environment is. In sitting with that environment, you may ask for guidance and help in seeing with more clarity and in being able to have a broader point of view that enables you to see a larger picture.

We hope that this sort of energy will be that to which you turn if you do feel fearful because that over which you have control remains stubbornly inferior to yourself. The kingdom does lie within and the resources and tools for administering your kingdom lie handy to your use. It is a matter of how you choose to think, to act, and to be.

---

T: Yes. The question centers around how one can think through and come to a decision about an important life path, of one option or another. Does that help?

There are a couple of things we would share with you, my brother, about making choices. Firstly, we would ask you to be more than usually aware of your guidance and to ask it for help in a very specific way. In other words, my brother, when you pray or converse with your guidance system, rather than saying, “I have some things coming up that I’m concerned about and I would like for your help,” we would suggest that you be very specific and try to describe to your guidance system precisely what it is with which you want help. As you describe the specifics of your choice to your guidance system in this inner conversation, you will be opening channels of inspiration and information that will begin to flow instantly.
Secondly, we would suggest to you the virtue of exaggeration. When you are attempting to make a choice it is helpful sometimes to exaggerate the choice, to imagine into how it would be if it went one way and emphasize and exaggerate that projection into one possible future. And then do the same thing with that other path, exaggerating it and imagining into it and seeing how it felt one year down the road, two years down the road, as you project how your life will change because you’ve made this choice.

(Side one of tape ends.)

(Carla channeling)

We might suggest, for instance, that you could take a period of your time, for instance a week, and for seven days focus entirely on wanting, looking into, imagining and projecting into the future, having made the choice one way. Then take the next week and do the same thing for the other side. There is a point in this process where you will begin to get a resonance on one way of choosing that you do not get on the other way of choosing. This is one way of sharpening your focus as you let yourself drift and dream and imagine what it would be like to live out the implications inherent in making the choice one way or the other.

Thirdly, we would suggest that you be careful to include in each day a time where there is no thought taken about this choice. We do not even want to describe how you would structure this time. But let it be a time that is yours and let your choice for that time be that which opens your heart.

It might be as simple as walking outside in beautiful settings, especially those with trees. It might be any situation in which you choose how you wish to enter the silence. But let this time be free from worldly concerns of any kind. Let this be your gift to yourself. This is important for the balancing of all that is occurring to you at this time.

You might even think of it as a time of invitation and acceptance; an invitation of beauty, truth, justice and peace. Invite them to flow through you as they will, restoring and healing you, for they rest as entities within your energy system and can be called forth and evoked, if you will. And rest, resting from all labor, all thought, all concern; resting into the silence, leaning back into the strength and the power inherent in the ongoing pulse of the Creator’s heart.

B: Yes, I have one. You made reference to the third-density pattern which must be completed. Could you describe what the pattern is?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We have difficulty using this instrument to answer that particular question and therefore we shall attempt to be somewhat creative, for there are many things this instrument simply does not know in terms of scientific patterns.

The pattern of third density, to use your own discussion of densities with this instrument, is oranges. There is an orange-ness that must be completed and that is a complex thing. It has to do with that particular fruit, shall we say. It has a certain smell, it has a certain texture and firmness, and is of certain size and so forth. Third density has a field and it is full of a certain kind of pattern. When the pattern is completed, then there will be no more need for oranges.

We are sorry but this is the best we can do through this instrument. Can we try to answer you further, my brother?

B: Are there specific attributes I could look for in the field?

We are those of Q’uo, and yes, my brother, there are specific attributes. We do not believe we can, at this time, express to you what to look for. We are sorry but we cannot offer you information through this instrument at this time on this question except that we can, through this instrument, affirm that there are indeed characteristics that are available to your observation.

B: This I know. One more question. How is the fourth-density energy impinging on Earth now affecting the people? Is that increasing the amount of violence, being misinterpreted?

We are the Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We find this a misleading question in that it is not the interpenetration of fourth density in third that is creating more violence but rather it is that separation of entities into those who are moving forward and those who are caught in fear. Neither those who are graduating service to self nor those who are graduating service to others are caught in fear. The entities that are caught in fear are those who have not yet chosen how to polarize; that are simply, shall we say, resting in the cultural milieu.

If they have not made that first discovery of the true situation, then they perhaps have a very blunted ability to choose at all. Information such as this group offers and many, many other groups offer can awaken certain people who are ready to awaken to the situation. And when entities get the situation well in mind, they are riveted. They are activated and they realize the gravity of this need to choose.

If entities are not yet at that point where it is necessary for them to wake up, necessary for them to get a grasp of the situation and necessary for them, then, to make the choice, they are simply not ready to leave third density and, therefore, they dwell in a sinkhole of indifference that is like a gravity well. They simply cannot get off the bottom of the swing of, say, the pendulum that they represent by not having chosen.

Those who have not made the choice are those, say, that would be hanging straight down into the gravity well. Just as when one swings on a swing, one has to rock back and forth to get a good start. Then once one is swinging, one is able to swing very high. One has developed power. A person that is simply hanging at the bottom of this gravity well of indifference has no power.

So, you are basically looking at entities who are powerless. They sense that they are powerless without having knowledge of how to claim the very substantial power that they indeed do have but do not know how to get to.

B: This is actually describing a pattern. Is this part of a second-density pattern they are trying to complete to move on through the third density? Basically, the great ape motif. Is that what’s holding them back and causing the violent reactions?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We believe that you are reversing cause and effect here and putting the cart before the horse. The repetitive experiences of entities who have experienced destruction have created a group of entities on your planet who are simply resistant to awakening.

They have successfully avoided [awakening] for a long enough period of time and a significant enough amount of incarnational experiences that there is a continuing resistance to awakening that is expressed very well in some of the outer forms of your culture at this time, with its ways of distracting and amusing entities’ thoughts and occupying their thoughts to an extent that keeps them asleep in terms of thinking ethically or morally about who they are or why they are here.

The situation with such entities is simply that they shall need to go through another third-density cycle elsewhere. It was hoped, naturally, by those who created this planetary experience that this would be the best possible environment to take entities that had this pattern and to give them the maximum opportunity for healing and for growth. But there is no guarantee when such a pattern is made that it will succeed. However, each time a new cycle begins, the sub-Logos responsible for that cycle does its very, very best to create that maximally efficient structure for evolution, and if they did not succeed in clearing third-density lessons this time, they shall receive another chance and another opportunity with perhaps an even better creation to play in.

B: Yes. Would there be one particular thing this planetary experience went wrong on that managed to get all these people stuck having to repeat third density?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. There is indeed one thing that entities become stuck on, in general, and that is that illusion that all are not one. It is the saving awareness of all entities who undertake spiritual evolution to realize, in the way that is meaningful to you, that the picture is indeed larger than one person, one nuclear family, and one lifetime, and that, in that picture, everyone belongs. All is one. The lack of awareness of oneness is the key to the clinging to patterns of violence.

It is important to realize, though, my brother, that simply because a group of entities did not make graduation at this time does not mean that there has been a failure. There is no concept of success or failure as such in the outworking of the pattern for a planetary density. Those who are able to be harvested are harvested. Those who are not able to be harvested are given further opportunities to work through the lessons that they were unable to learn so far. There is no reason to be concerned. It is simply a point of information that the particular planet on which you now enjoy living is soon to become unavailable for third-density work. Therefore, [those of] third density shall need to take up their studies elsewhere.

[Oceania]

i hate being here. i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession. there's no true freedom here.

Oceania... may I humbly observe that such a strong charge against being here in this place might actually result in a barrier to your leaving in a peaceful manner?

It sounds to me like you are forgetting your choice to come here.

saying something so negative as that i may not leave peacefully was totally uncalled for and fear-based in my eyes. you do not know me. so please don't assume things about me.

[kycahi]

Ocean, I sure wish I could hug you about now. All of us, including TN, do our best as we determine what that is. Please post as you cope with what's going on; I'm not saying we should only write sweetness or nothing, but still, try to ease up from negatory personal stuff. Our words have power beyond what most of us think.

I care.

[Oceania]

sorry if i'm bringing the board down.

[Monica]

i hate being here. i wish the aliens would end the experiment and give up on their freedom obsession. there's no true freedom here.

Oceania... may I humbly observe that such a strong charge against being here in this place might actually result in a barrier to your leaving in a peaceful manner?

It sounds to me like you are forgetting your choice to come here.

saying something so negative as that i may not leave peacefully was totally uncalled for and fear-based in my eyes. you do not know me. so please don't assume things about me.

Oceania, I'm quite certain that Tenet was trying to help, and had good intentions of offering an insight that might be useful for you. Your post expressed extreme discontent, so it's understandable that you might perceive any efforts to help, in the same way. I invite you to consider Tenet's offer in a positive light.

HUGS to you!

---

sorry if i'm bringing the board down.

As 4D light intensifies, many of us are experiencing challenges. It's totally understandable, and part of the purpose of this forum is to help support one another thru this challenging time. So it's ok to express your feelings. Please feel free to start a thread in the Life on Planet Earth sub-forum, and we can continue the conversation there.

[Oceania]

i know he was trying to help. i'll start a thread.

[Tenet Nosce]

What does 'opening the gateway' mean, incidentally? I do not know.

I would like to know as well.

Questioner: We have decided to accept, if offered, the honor/duty of learning/teaching the healing process. I would ask as to the first step which we should accomplish in becoming effective healers.

Ra: I am Ra. We shall begin with the first of the three teachings/learnings.

We begin with the mental learn/teachings necessary for contact with intelligent infinity. The prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence.

Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships.

To begin to master the concept of mental discipline it is necessary to examine the self. The polarity of your dimension must be internalized. Where you find patience within your mind you must consciously find the corresponding impatience and vice versa. Each thought that a being has, has in its turn an antithesis. The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

The second mental discipline is acceptance of the completeness within your consciousness. It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes, thus building the roles that cause blockages and confusions in the already-distorted mind complex. Each acceptance smoothes part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders.

The third discipline of the mind is a repetition of the first but with the gaze outward towards the fellow entities that it meets. In each entity there exists completeness. Thus, the ability to understand each balance is necessary. When you view patience, you are responsible for mirroring in your mental understanding, patience/impatience. When you view impatience, it is necessary for your mental configuration of understanding to be impatience/patience. We use this as a simple example. Most configurations of mind have many facets, and understanding of either self polarities, or what you would call other-self polarities, can and must be understood as subtle work.

The next step is the acceptance of the other-self polarities, which mirrors the second step.

These are the first four steps of learning mental discipline. The fifth step involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind.

The second area of learn/teaching is the study/understanding of the body complexes. It is necessary to know your body well. This is a matter of using the mind to examine how the feelings, the biases, what you would call the emotions, affect various portions of the body complex. It shall be necessary to both understand the bodily polarities and to accept them, repeating in a chemical/physical manifestation the work you have done upon the mind bethinking the consciousness.

The body is a creature of the mind’s creation. It has its biases. The biological bias must be first completely understood and then the opposite bias allowed to find full expression in understanding. Again, the process of acceptance of the body as a balanced, as well as polarized, individual may then be accomplished. It is then the task to extend this understanding to the bodies of the other-selves whom you will meet.

The simplest example of this is the understanding that each biological male is female; each biological female is male. This is a simple example. However, in almost every case wherein you are attempting the understanding of the body of self or other-self, you will again find that the most subtle discernment is necessary in order to fully grasp the polarity complexes involved.

At this time we would suggest closing the description until the next time of work so that we may devote time to the third area commensurate with its importance.

[Unbound]

I just finished reading Bringers of the Dawn and it describes this system as being one composed entirely of darkness before, and part of the Lightworker's business here is to open the system to light for the first time.

[unity100]

I just finished reading Bringers of the Dawn and it describes this system as being one composed entirely of darkness before, and part of the Lightworker's business here is to open the system to light for the first time.

there was Ra social memory complex in this system, they went from 4d to 6d positive in this system. there apparently have come other positive social memory complexes after them in venus apparently, since it is still inhabited by 5/6d entities. there werent any social memory complexes in this system apart from those. maldek destroyed itself, mars experience was destroyed before graduation, so there hasnt been any other social memory complex that could be negative.

in the light of this information i wouldnt trust that source too much.