Going to fourth density? Or fifth?

[Tenet Nosce]

Why do you say that?

Gosh- at this point I wouldn't know where to begin to look. It's just an impression I've built up. Or should I say projection?

No, not all all. If you read what I've said on the subject, I said is it's not associated with an "event", it's a process.

I clearly must have become confused somewhere along the way.

Anyhow, my take has been that there will be an "event" however it will be internal, and unique to each entity. What is your thought on that?

You don't need a hybrid body to survive in the early stages of the transition. You need a hybrid body/mind to fully appreciate the vibration. Do you see the difference? Wanderers can not have dual bodies as that would allow direct access to (millions of years of) prior distilled experience.

Yes, I think I see what you mean. So, in other words, if a wanderer had a hybrid body, then upon full 4D instreaming they would suddenly acquire "godlike" abilities which would be inappropriate to display among the rest of the population.

The "quantum leap" just marks the uninhibited "instreaming". Nothing happens to wanderers other than probable familiarity with the conditions.

How can a wanderer recognize those conditions, if they cannot respond to 4D vibrations?

So then, where does the end-of-the-cycle harvest fit in to all of this? Does it happen before full 4D instreaming begins? Or after the "transition period" is completed?

The harvest occurs when you die. Most likely soon after the full 4D instreaming begins. It depends on how much catalytic opportunity is still available for learning lessons of 3D. If it's too transparent, then the veil is not effective.

You kind of lost me here. If "all are harvested regardless of their progress" how can that happen when we die, unless the whole population dies simultaneously?

Also, what do you mean by "soon after"? So we can all expect to die soon?

How do you know when you die?

I was talking about the "quantum leap." How would we know that has occurred?

Yes, there is overlap - thus the transition period.

So then the 3D sphere and the 4D sphere cohabit the same space/time? Or are you saying that 4D vibrations become available to those of us still inhabiting the 3D sphere?

What is the relationship you have established with yourself? It's only "you". "you" wants to cooperate with "you". It is more than willing to cooperate. The universe itself is more than willing to cooperate. Everything you need is built in.

Well, I feel like I have a pretty good relationship with myself. I trust and accept myself for the most part. I don't usually fall into self-judgment and when I do it is typically brief. Overall, life is going fairly well for me, and it seems to be getting easier.

It's kind of hard to explain. When I view others, it is easy for me to perceive all their "baggage" i.e. unused catalyst they are dragging around with them. The actual evidence of this I see as repeated dramatic themes and failure to learn from experience. When I view the collective experience over the last 6000 years, this becomes even more pronounced.

It basically comes down to the general dearth of wisdom in third density experience. I don't mean to imply that there aren't many wise people in the world, and many much wiser than I. I just feel like- wherever I came from- display of wisdom was the rule, not the exception.

This is an area where I struggle with judgement of others. I have to constantly practice to "soften my heart" toward people who don't appear to learn from experience.

Now when I observe this judgement in myself toward others, I attempt to apply the Law of One, which to means I gaze upon them and ponder: I AM THAT. I am these others that I am judging.

Therefore, that naturally leads my mind down the path to consider that I must be projecting self-judgment my own failure to learn from experience onto others. Yet when I perform a self-assessment I see no massive pile of unused catalyst stinking up my own personal life.

Therefore, I become apprehensive that there might be something that I have denied so deeply, that I cannot find it even when I go looking for it.

So that's the general gist of the pattern.

Well, you can start with taking a look at all aspects of what it means to you personally to not be ready or to be ready. Also take a look at what you consider to be "progress".

Well, the general idea is that a main theme of my incarnation is balancing wisdom with love. Therefore I might consider humility as a mark of progress. Also the state of my personal relationships and general smoothness of experience.

Also, what does deluding yourself mean? What other times have you deluded yourself and what were the actual consequences?

In this particular context, I would say the deluding myself would refer to situations where I felt blindsided by events. Being smacked upside the head with something that I didn't see coming. Just toodling along in life thinking that all is well when in reality a major adjustment was needed.

To bring all of this into the present moment- it appears to me that a great many people's lives are in quite a bit of chaos, which I am attributing to the approach of some time/space event we are calling the "quantum leap." Sort of like rushing around doing last-minute chores before leaving for a trip. Or last minute studying before exam time.

As for me- things seem to be going remarkably well. I feel like I have my gear in order and have re-read my notes. But then I wonder... is the biggest blindside yet to come, and just around the corner? Or have I truly balanced myself enough in order to no longer require that type of catalyst?

[zenmaster]

Anyhow, my take has been that there will be an "event" however it will be internal, and unique to each entity. What is your thought on that?

I've heard that one too. Doesn't really make any sense.

You don't need a hybrid body to survive in the early stages of the transition. You need a hybrid body/mind to fully appreciate the vibration. Do you see the difference? Wanderers can not have dual bodies as that would allow direct access to (millions of years of) prior distilled experience.

Yes, I think I see what you mean. So, in other words, if a wanderer had a hybrid body, then upon full 4D instreaming they would suddenly acquire "godlike" abilities which would be inappropriate to display among the rest of the population.

Not exactly. The dual-activated body would be enough as that means non-veiled connection to mind with prior experience.

The "quantum leap" just marks the uninhibited "instreaming". Nothing happens to wanderers other than probable familiarity with the conditions.

How can a wanderer recognize those conditions, if they cannot respond to 4D vibrations?

They can respond to that instreaming, as it interacts with 3D vibrations.

You kind of lost me here. If "all are harvested regardless of their progress" how can that happen when we die, unless the whole population dies simultaneously?

Ra doesn't mean all are harvested (from 3D) simultaneously, they are harvested during the end of the cycle when it ceases to be useful for their development.

Also, what do you mean by "soon after"? So we can all expect to die soon?

"Harvest" doesn't cause death, nor would the start of full instreaming.

I was talking about the "quantum leap." How would we know that has occurred?

Do you have a good feel for how you and others are currently accessing the planetary mind and personal mind as a resource?

Yes, there is overlap - thus the transition period.

So then the 3D sphere and the 4D sphere cohabit the same space/time? Or are you saying that 4D vibrations become available to those of us still inhabiting the 3D sphere?

Yes they cohabit at the same space/time, but the 4D sphere is only starting to form. It is formed by the energy being utilized by those consciously working with it - again in the same logos system. We are still using 3D patterns until it's complete - that's the stepping stone.

[Tenet Nosce]

I've heard that one too. Doesn't really make any sense.

Why not? Wouldn't the "quantum leap" be accompanied by a shift in the inner landscape?

Ra doesn't mean all are harvested (from 3D) simultaneously, they are harvested during the end of the cycle when it ceases to be useful for their development.

But doesn't that imply some sort of scenario where the population is shrinking, and eventually no new people are born into 3D?

"Harvest" doesn't cause death, nor would the start of full instreaming.

You said: "The harvest occurs when you die. Most likely soon after the full 4D instreaming begins."

What happens most likely soon after the full 4D instreaming?

Do you have a good feel for how you and others are currently accessing the planetary mind and personal mind as a resource?

Not sure how one would assess that.

Yes they cohabit at the same space/time, but the 4D sphere is only starting to form. It is formed by the energy being utilized by those consciously working with it - again in the same logos system. We are still using 3D patterns until it's complete - that's the stepping stone.

I found the quotes I am confused about...

62.28 Questioner: Then as the fourth-density vibrations come in this means that the planet can support entities of fourth-density core vibration. Will the planet then still be first-density core vibration and will there be second-density entities on it with second-density vibrations, and will there be third-density entities on it with third-density vibrations?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. There is energy but the distortions of the instrument suggest to us it would be well to shorten this working with your permission.

62.29 Questioner: Yes.

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third density.

Thus in fourth density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

May we ask at this time if there be any brief queries?

I took this to mean that the 3D and 4D spheres cannot be simultaneously inhabited...?

[Oceania]

of course they can. but in the start of 4D we are not yet capable of hiding ourselves from 3D and i think the transition takes about 700 years, and corresponds with the 1000 years of peace that is supposed to come. this time will give the 4D beginners time to learn and then maybe earth will be ready for 3D life. especially as 2D develops, who knows...

[xise]

It's kind of hard to explain. When I view others, it is easy for me to perceive all their "baggage" i.e. unused catalyst they are dragging around with them. The actual evidence of this I see as repeated dramatic themes and failure to learn from experience. When I view the collective experience over the last 6000 years, this becomes even more pronounced.

It basically comes down to the general dearth of wisdom in third density experience. I don't mean to imply that there aren't many wise people in the world, and many much wiser than I. I just feel like- wherever I came from- display of wisdom was the rule, not the exception.

This is an area where I struggle with judgement of others. I have to constantly practice to "soften my heart" toward people who don't appear to learn from experience.

Now when I observe this judgement in myself toward others, I attempt to apply the Law of One, which to means I gaze upon them and ponder: I AM THAT. I am these others that I am judging.

Therefore, that naturally leads my mind down the path to consider that I must be projecting self-judgment my own failure to learn from experience onto others. Yet when I perform a self-assessment I see no massive pile of unused catalyst stinking up my own personal life.

Therefore, I become apprehensive that there might be something that I have denied so deeply, that I cannot find it even when I go looking for it.

So that's the general gist of the pattern.

My friend, is not time an illusion? Therefore, are you not both in some sense, your past self, your present self, and your future self (Higher self?))?

It is very likely that all of us, in an earlier incarnation at least, were inefficient in our use of catalyst. We were all spiritual infants at once. Judge not an infant who does not learn quickly from his lessons. He has much growth of ahead of him, all in due time.

Our fellow man are not good, or bad, or lazy. They, like us, are in the school of the Earth plane, taking classes at their own pace in this illusion of time. There is no need to judge others for not efficiently processing their catalyst. Observe that all judgement, and all measurement, naturally tends to order things in a hierarchy, and hierarchies naturally tend themselves of more use to the sts path than the sto one, visa-vie the construction of an elite.

When you see things from this perspective, I find opening your heart with unconditional love to these others we may otherwise judge is natural, easy, and beautiful to behold.

I mean not to offend or judge your own perspective with my words. I am only offering my thoughts on an issue that I too have had trouble dealing with.

[AnthroHeart]

I often find myself falling into the trap that when something "spiritual" happens to me, I think it is the end all be all. I'm learning not to really get moved all that much when I start experiencing things.

[zenmaster]

I've heard that one too. Doesn't really make any sense.

Why not? Wouldn't the "quantum leap" be accompanied by a shift in the inner landscape?

Why? Landscape is your experience.

Ra doesn't mean all are harvested (from 3D) simultaneously, they are harvested during the end of the cycle when it ceases to be useful for their development.

But doesn't that imply some sort of scenario where the population is shrinking, and eventually no new people are born into 3D?

No new 3D natives are born into 3D.

"Harvest" doesn't cause death, nor would the start of full instreaming.

You said: "The harvest occurs when you die. Most likely soon after the full 4D instreaming begins."

What happens most likely soon after the full 4D instreaming?

There would be more transparency in thought (motives, desires, etc), for example.

Do you have a good feel for how you and others are currently accessing the planetary mind and personal mind as a resource?

Not sure how one would assess that.

How you interpret symbolism? What makes something ironic? Why something is aesthetically pleasing or fashionable? What makes the ego feel safe and not safe? Do you not recognize the themes, patterns and basic dynamic?

I took this to mean that the 3D and 4D spheres cannot be simultaneously inhabited...?

Sure they can, after 4D sphere is fully formed due to use by inhabitants. It's in an entirely different dimension.

[hogey11]

Sure they can, after 4D sphere is fully formed due to use by inhabitants. It's in an entirely different dimension.

I'm not sure a planetary entity can hold both 3D and 4D vibrations at once due to incompatibility...

I'm not saying we can't host 4D entities while a 3D sphere, but more that the 3D sphere fades after the implementation of the 4D sphere...

If it works this way, why are there no 3D entities on Venus right now?

[zenmaster]

If it works this way, why are there no 3D entities on Venus right now?

Works what way?

[Parsons]

This conversation is fantastic. TN is noticing the logic loop in the generally accepted gradualistic theory. I'm expecting someone to break down and have smoke come out of their ears while 'tilt' is displayed in red letters where their eyes should be.

[hogey11]

That both 3D and 4D+ spheres can coexist in space/time at once?

Like if Venus is currently hosting 5D or 6D entities and the 3D sphere is deactivated, why is it that the 3D and 4D spheres could coexist here? Especially when Ra states that 3D and 4D vibrations are incompatible due to 4D inherently rejecting 3D anything as a rule (veil vs no veil?)...

I should clarify to say that I don't exactly know that they can't, other than what Ra says about the differences between 3D and 4D in regards to the transitional body. "If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility." What does 'electrically aware' mean? Is that in relation to the brain or to something different?

[Tenet Nosce]

Why? Landscape is your experience.

Because our consciousness acquires another dimension of motion. This allows for different views of the landscape.

No new 3D natives are born into 3D.

So then 3D ends when the last 3D native dies, but there is otherwise a total continuity of experience?

There would be more transparency in thought (motives, desires, etc), for example.

What do you suppose will be the effects on 3D bodies?

What makes something ironic? Why something is aesthetically pleasing or fashionable? What makes the ego feel safe and not safe?

What do these have to do with the planetary mind?

Sure they can, after 4D sphere is fully formed due to use by inhabitants. It's in an entirely different dimension.

So 4D instreaming begins shortly. Use of 4D catalyst by 3D/4D hybrids literally forms the 4D sphere during the "transition period" which is variable dependent upon how efficiently the catalyst is used. Meanwhile, 3D entities live out their lives and upon death await the 4D sphere to be completed, or are transferred to another 3D sphere.

What determines when 4D becomes inhabitable?

[zenmaster]

No new 3D natives are born into 3D.

So then 3D ends when the last 3D native dies, but there is otherwise a total continuity of experience?

No, 3D doesn't end when the last 3D native dies.

There would be more transparency in thought (motives, desires, etc), for example.

What do you suppose will be the effects on 3D bodies?

Same effects you'd get from anything stirring the unconscious. Coping behavior and/or seizing the new opportunities now seen in a different light.

What makes something ironic? Why something is aesthetically pleasing or fashionable? What makes the ego feel safe and not safe?

What do these have to do with the planetary mind?

They are among the pattens the inhabitants have created as sub-sub-logos.

Sure they can, after 4D sphere is fully formed due to use by inhabitants. It's in an entirely different dimension.

So 4D instreaming begins shortly.

4D instreaming began awhile back. The full 4D streaming begins shortly.

Use of 4D catalyst by 3D/4D hybrids literally forms the 4D sphere during the "transition period" which is variable dependent upon how efficiently the catalyst is used. Meanwhile, 3D entities live out their lives and upon death await the 4D sphere to be completed, or are transferred to another 3D sphere.

Upon death, if they are harvested 4D positive. That is, grounded in that vibration. They don't wait for the 4D sphere to be completed.

What determines when 4D becomes inhabitable?

4D is inhabitable now here. It's just shared with 3D, hence the need for the dual-activation.

[CircleofOne]

Glad to see this subject. I've had a heck of time struggling with a knee-jerk reaction whenever I see 5D thrown around in all this. To me it's illustrated perfectly how people tend to pick up belief systems and incorporate them, without fully inspecting them or attempting to understand them.

They hear, so they repeat it. I guess sort of like learning a language, it's all just mimicry at first.

The fact that it keeps coming from GFOL sources was one of the sort of alarm bells that went off early on and kept me from ever following those channelings (which is a whole different topic :p ).

One thing I noticed, and forgive me if it's been brought up already as I didn't read every single reply in this, is what Ra mentions of the negative activation of the chakras. We can see the correlation between the octave density structure and the chakras, and find similar 'themes' between both. Ra explains that the negative chakra activation will skip from yellow ray to blue ray using a combination of (I believe) orange and yellow rays as a substitute for green; love being a folly to the negative polarity. So within that we can see this idea of skipping from 3rd ray to 5th ray.

To me understanding this connection between the chakras and the densities is what really made it click. If you realize that 99% of what we've been focusing on is this idea of Love from a heart-center, and see that it is emanating from the green ray, then 4D is really the only thing that makes sense.

So, I continue to bite my tongue after relentlessly attempting to help lessen the distortion around this concept to little result

[Ashim]

Glad to see this subject. I've had a heck of time struggling with a knee-jerk reaction whenever I see 5D thrown around in all this. To me it's illustrated perfectly how people tend to pick up belief systems and incorporate them, without fully inspecting them or attempting to understand them.

They hear, so they repeat it. I guess sort of like learning a language, it's all just mimicry at first.

The fact that it keeps coming from GFOL sources was one of the sort of alarm bells that went off early on and kept me from ever following those channelings (which is a whole different topic :p ).

One thing I noticed, and forgive me if it's been brought up already as I didn't read every single reply in this, is what Ra mentions of the negative activation of the chakras. We can see the correlation between the octave density structure and the chakras, and find similar 'themes' between both. Ra explains that the negative chakra activation will skip from yellow ray to blue ray using a combination of (I believe) orange and yellow rays as a substitute for green; love being a folly to the negative polarity. So within that we can see this idea of skipping from 3rd ray to 5th ray.

To me understanding this connection between the chakras and the densities is what really made it click. If you realize that 99% of what we've been focusing on is this idea of Love from a heart-center, and see that it is emanating from the green ray, then 4D is really the only thing that makes sense.

So, I continue to bite my tongue after relentlessly attempting to help lessen the distortion around this concept to little result

SORRY but have to ask the following from you.
Where does Ra discuss 'negative chakra activation'?
I think you are confusing something/someone.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that Ra offered NO negative teachings.
Your post got my 'alarm bells' ringing.
Please explain.

[Aaron]

Ashim, I believe CircleofOne was speaking of this quote, from where Don was asking about the differences in rays between positively and negatively polarized entities:

39.12 Questioner: Is this also true of all of the other rays?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall answer briefly. You may question further at another working.

The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this being only used in order to contact intelligent infinity.

In positively oriented entities the configuration is even, crystallinely clear, and of the seven ray description.

Are there any short queries before we leave this instrument?

However, it is noteworthy that there may have been a miscommunication or error in transmission in this quote. Ra had previously stated that the indigo ray is the ray which is used to contact intelligent infinity, by all entities in all circumstances.

[Ashim]

Ashim, I believe CircleofOne was speaking of this quote, from where Don was asking about the differences in rays between positively and negatively polarized entities:

39.12 Questioner: Is this also true of all of the other rays?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall answer briefly. You may question further at another working.

The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this being only used in order to contact intelligent infinity.

In positively oriented entities the configuration is even, crystallinely clear, and of the seven ray description.

Are there any short queries before we leave this instrument?

However, it is noteworthy that there may have been a miscommunication or error in transmission in this quote. Ra had previously stated that the indigo ray is the ray which is used to contact intelligent infinity, by all entities in all circumstances.

Didn't Ra also say that there were no mistakes.
The negative entity uses blue ray to connect to Intelligent Infinity.
Using blue ray requires the 'use' of something exterior of self.

[zenmaster]

Didn't Ra also say that there were no mistakes.

And yet Ra made plenty of errors. They meant there were no accidents (since all is one) for the purpose of dwelling upon or looking at things in that light. They also said 3D can't understand, then used the same term 'understand' when talking about how things function.

The negative entity uses blue ray to connect to Intelligent Infinity.

No, again it was another mistake not caught by Don, but obvious.

Using blue ray requires the 'use' of something exterior of self.

Like green-ray, the "springboard" to blue? "once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. "


"Ra: I am Ra. I perceive you have difficulty in expressing your query. We shall respond in an attempt to clarify your query.

The vibratory rates are not to be understood as the same in positive and negative orientations. They are to be understood as having the power to accept and work with intelligent infinity to a certain degree or intensity. Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration."


"47.4 Questioner: Did you say that blue was missing from fourth-density negative?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us clarify further. As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates. Thus the potential of the green and blue energy center activation is, of course, precisely where it must be in a creation of Love. However, the negatively polarized entity will have achieved harvest due to extremely efficient use of red and yellow/orange, moving directly to the gateway indigo bringing through this intelligent energy channel the in-streamings of intelligent infinity."

[Ashim]

You are talking about achieving Harvest, not about simple connection to Intelligent Infinity.
We know that entities use 'tech' be it a 'chair' or 'looking glass' to connect.
That was the context of my observations, not harvestablity.
Ra speaks of green and blue together not of blue alone.

[CircleofOne]

Right, thank you Aaron, that is the quote. And thanks zen for the further quotes. Seems to be a bit of hostility here

[Ashim]

Right, thank you Aaron, that is the quote. And thanks zen for the further quotes. Seems to be a bit of hostility here

No hostility - It's pure Love.
We have your numbers and location - just for the record.

[CircleofOne]

My lotto numbers? Please remind me of those, I could really use them!

[Taco]

i understand practically nothing of the harvest except this (this is what my intuition tells me to do personally);

when you're ready to move past this earth, you'll go where you need to go. right now is where you need to be, so stop worrying.

basically all i understand is that once someone is "done" with 3d earth, they move on to 4d earth, whatever that is like. specifics confuse me. maybe even people can get harvested to other planets and grow/experience/remember there. its fun to think about though.

[zenmaster]

You are talking about achieving Harvest, not about simple connection to Intelligent Infinity.
We know that entities use 'tech' be it a 'chair' or 'looking glass' to connect.
That was the context of my observations, not harvestablity.
Ra speaks of green and blue together not of blue alone.

"There is always some difficulty in penetrating blue primary energy for it requires that which your people have in great paucity; that is, honesty."

[Tenet Nosce]

Same effects you'd get from anything stirring the unconscious. Coping behavior and/or seizing the new opportunities now seen in a different light.

I meant biologically. Do you suppose full 4D instreaming would impact the health of a 3D body? Aren't there electromagnetic effects?

The full 4D streaming begins shortly.

How do you suppose this will impact your personal life?

[zenmaster]

Same effects you'd get from anything stirring the unconscious. Coping behavior and/or seizing the new opportunities now seen in a different light.

I meant biologically. Do you suppose full 4D instreaming would impact the health of a 3D body?

Not directly. It's like offering a (unbiased) template for development. I don't think anything of a "4D" nature has impact unless utilized by mind, just like nothing of a "3D" nature as any impact on the health of a 2D body unless utilized by mind.

Aren't there electromagnetic effects?

Yes, that's the mechanical aspect which has analogs at all densities and, within densities, both temporal and spatial.

The full 4D streaming begins shortly.

How do you suppose this will impact your personal life?

I'd imagine that within my lifetime there would be a complete change in society due to the moderately increased awareness available. For example, needs, abilities, and personality would become more transparent (obvious, easy to ascertain or recognize) eventually resulting in much more effective interaction, cooperation and contribution among individuals.

[reeay]

zenmaster: what's the significance of understanding the mechanics of 'harvest'?

[zenmaster]

zenmaster: what's the significance of understanding the mechanics of 'harvest'?

Same as the significance in learning anything about nature. You can always use the understanding to learn more about the self - esp. due to all the novelty and unknowns. People have had some really strange and eccentric notions of exaltation and intervention though, which have in a fool-proof manner reflected imbalance and perverted ideologies.

[reeay]

Same as the significance in learning anything about nature. You can always use the understanding to learn more about the self - esp. due to all the novelty and unknowns. People have had some really strange and eccentric notions of exaltation and intervention though, which have in a fool-proof manner reflected imbalance and perverted ideologies.

Then those ideologies and hypotheses we have about harvest may be used as catalysts should they be accepted as such? Personal distortions... whatever people prefer to call them.

[zenmaster]

If only.