STS Lies

[seejay21]

You are absolutely right! I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth. It goes together like peanut butter and jelly. :-)

When I post here, I speak from my self. The statements come from two places. The here and now, and what it is we are "suppose" to be doing (the later statement), and what it is we here kick the can about. Both are true IMO.

[3DMonkey]

Yes yes YES. That is what's happening all the time. On this forum and in this world.

[seejay21]

The illusion and the veil. Its not the content that matters so much, its the result that matters. Its not our mission and there is no mandate to seek breaching the veil and discovering the illusion. The only lesson to be learned here is love. That lesson is not learned until the cycle is complete. Believe it or not, we all agreed to this before coming here. We all agreed to be "actors" in this "play" and we should be worried about learning our "lines" more than what the show's producers are planing for the next scene. Basically, be here now, and do what your heart tells you. Live the life that fullfils your desires, vigorously. Be the best actor you can be, and be true to your character role. Seeking to better yourself with the goal of being 4d sto harvestable is a fools journey. That simple goal may land you on the sts path quickly, and you won't even know it. Like I said before, the most damning lies are the ones an sts entity tells himself.

Some sto's will be learning in a way that may make them appear to be the biggest evil doers that ever walked the earth. It may be the role they agreed to, to feel shame when it comes to the end, and an opportunity to forgive and accept forgiveness. Who knows.

Truly words of great import. Thanks for taking the time to write it out with patience and clarity

Just sayn!

If I'm STS, I'm a liar.

[3DMonkey]

If I'm STO, I Trust you.

Do you trust me? Hahahahaha. Riddle me this....

[seejay21]

Yes yes YES. That is what's happening all the time. On this forum and in this world.

I do it all the time. Both ends aren't always in the same post, and some times a bit of this and that. I'm suprised we haven't come up with a better way to articulate the double "I" aspect of speaking about the universe, reality, the LOO, Love/Light, guilt, fear and shame.

The LOO material for me has always been validation. It lets me know what I know isn't crazy as hell. At the same time though, for me, the seeking aspect, trying to discover how to find the "way" is double edged, and a paradoxical balancing act.

Okay.. so lets just say we know the way home. If that was true, why are we trying so hard to get there?

[Ankh]

(edit: Point being, I trust STS communication to be STS more than I trust STO to be STO.)

I don't believe that. STS, whether there is a question of communication or other interaction, whether there is a direct or indirect contact, is still teaching others when they teach their philosophy, ie serving others. In that sense the interaction is not more "STS being STS" than "STO being STO".

Ra messed up

I am not adressing this question to you only, but to everybody who thinks in that way, because I've heard that before! How did Ra "messed up"? They came and tried to teach/learn. Their message got distorted, perverted and whatnot by humans. They left in physical form, but never left our vibration. We can not take the responsibility for how our communication will be interpreted by others because each has a Free Will to understand/distort teachings in whatever way they desire. Yet, RA never left, but are still here, and they will follow us to the next Earth if that will be necessary. Poor Ra... Who would stay and serve if everything is just being perverted and besides that, one is accused of acting selfish too? Oh yeah, RA! What an ungrateful mass they are trying to reach out to...

[zenmaster]

Okay.. so lets just say we know the way home. If that was true, why are we trying so hard to get there?

Knowing the way home and knowing what home is are the same thing, that's why.

[seejay21]

If I'm STO, I Trust you.

Do you trust me? Hahahahaha. Riddle me this....

ROTFL. nice.

[Unbound]

I'm really quite convinced the whole point of the two paths is to realize that they collapse in to eachother. Learning unity by experiencing separation.

[seejay21]

Okay.. so lets just say we know the way home. If that was true, why are we trying so hard to get there?

Knowing the way home and knowing what home is are the same thing, that's why.

If you know the way home then you know where you are now, and where it is you should be. Don't bring your walkn shoes. It's not very far.

---

I'm really quite convinced the whole point of the two paths is to realize that they collapse in to eachother. Learning unity by experiencing separation.

A divine art.

[pphuck]

Ra messed up

I am not adressing this question to you only, but to everybody who thinks in that way, because I've heard that before! How did Ra "messed up"? They came and tried to teach/learn. Their message got distorted, perverted and whatnot by humans.

2.2 [...] Ra: I am Ra. [...] It was our naїve belief that we could teach/learn by direct contact and the free will distortions of individual feeling or personality were in no danger, we thought, of being disturbed as these cultures were already closely aligned with an all-embracing belief in the live-ness or consciousness of all. [...] However, we have never left your vibration due to our responsibility for the changes in consciousness we had first caused and then found distorted in ways not relegated to the Law of One. [...]

23.6 [...] Ra: I am Ra. [...] We discovered that for each word we could utter, there were thirty impressions we gave by our very being, which confused those entities we had come to serve. After a short period we removed ourselves from these entities and spent much time attempting to understand how best to serve those to whom we had offered ourselves in love/light. [...]

23.10 [...] Ra: I am Ra. [...] Thus, we would perhaps be in the position of paradox in that as one saw an illumination, we were what you call successful, and as others became more sorrowful and confused, we were failures.

... In my view, Ra should have understood the possibility beforehand (I would say certainty, but I understand why an STO entity could be naïve in this way.) Just like everyone else, they're around to learn as much as to teach, so mishaps are bound to happen.

They left in physical form, but never left our vibration. We can not take the responsibility for how our communication will be interpreted by others because each has a Free Will to understand/distort teachings in whatever way they desire.

I don't agree. At the very least, I would say that it is a shared responsibility. Avoiding this responsibility sounds a great deal like avoiding the STO/STS polarity to me.

STS, whether there is a question of communication or other interaction, whether there is a direct or indirect contact, is still teaching others when they teach their philosophy, ie serving others. In that sense the interaction is not more "STS being STS" than "STO being STO".

I don't agree. I can go as far as saying that a side effect of going through the STS path can be a catalyst for STO entities, but that is a side effect and not the intention itself.

---

I'm really quite convinced the whole point of the two paths is to realize that they collapse in to eachother. Learning unity by experiencing separation.

Partly correct from the entity perspective. From a larger holistic perspective it has more to do with progress and "evolution." Without two paths and two polarities, there is a huge lack of motivation and incentive to make progress. If I remember Ra correctly, without the two paths, progress is still made, but immensely slower.

So, why i say "partly correct" is that you said "learning unity by experiencing separation." You can learn more about unity without, but not easily as fast.

[3DMonkey]

(edit: Point being, I trust STS communication to be STS more than I trust STO to be STO.)

I don't believe that. STS, whether there is a question of communication or other interaction, whether there is a direct or indirect contact, is still teaching others when they teach their philosophy, ie serving others. In that sense the interaction is not more "STS being STS" than "STO being STO".

Ra messed up

I am not adressing this question to you only, but to everybody who thinks in that way, because I've heard that before! How did Ra "messed up"? They came and tried to teach/learn. Their message got distorted, perverted and whatnot by humans. They left in physical form, but never left our vibration. We can not take the responsibility for how our communication will be interpreted by others because each has a Free Will to understand/distort teachings in whatever way they desire. Yet, RA never left, but are still here, and they will follow us to the next Earth if that will be necessary. Poor Ra... Who would stay and serve if everything is just being perverted and besides that, one is accused of acting selfish too? Oh yeah, RA! What an ungrateful mass they are trying to reach out to...

There are no mistakes. It is more the idea that Ra is not perfect, precise, or infallible. Any mistakes are for a reason, and any actions have a counter action. The humans Ra contacted didn't make mistakes either. They just did what they did, and Ra bowed out because it wasn't resonating with their intentions, Ra's very fallible intentions.
Resonating is the basic idea here. It doesn't matter if you are 'listening' to a sts or an sto. Whatever resonates adheres to you. Your free will becomes your own polarizing vibration.

[zenmaster]

How can there be 'no mistakes', yet then an identification of 'mistakes'? Sounds like Ra's reluctant use of 3D 'understanding'.

Folks, there are errors in judgement - often seen in retrospect. We call them 'mistakes'. Big deal. People here tend to be hyper-sensitive to pointing out 'flawed' actions. I think it's either due to some identification with personal value or worth to that action, or that the perceived intention of the action was the more important consideration. This is the realm of comparison or duality. One can work within and benefit from that illusion (by creating knowledge systems) while simultaneously not identifying with it (i.e. as would be indicated by the disowned, unconscious emotional responses to upsetting evaluations).

[pphuck]

How can there be 'no mistakes', yet then an identification of 'mistakes'? Sounds like Ra's reluctant use of 3D 'understanding'.

Yeah, just cutting away "mistakes" kind of removes a huge part of "responsibility" as well. Sure, this is mainly just semantics... but, really, obviously, sometimes what you do comes with a negative effect, and if it wasn't intentionally done so, it for sure was a mistake.

Unless you're STS and lucky (since not being in control is kind of counter to what STS stands for.)

Ra bowed out because it wasn't resonating with their intentions

Not sure what you imply by that, but, Ra did stay around - to try to fix and amend what it messed up in the first place. Taking responsibility for the mistake it did.

[unity100]

there is nothing 'semantic' about responsibility ; what you do, has consequences, and they are inevitably binding for you, even if far into the future.

[Ankh]

... In my view, Ra should have understood the possibility beforehand (I would say certainty, but I understand why an STO entity could be naïve in this way.) Just like everyone else, they're around to learn as much as to teach, so mishaps are bound to happen.

There are no mistakes. It is more the idea that Ra is not perfect, precise, or infallible.

Not sure what you imply by that, but, Ra did stay around - to try to fix and amend what it messed up in the first place. Taking responsibility for the mistake it did.

It's not about Ra being perfect or infallible, whether there are no mistakes or lots of them. I just want to know how did Ra "messed up"? Once again, they came to teach/learn, but their attempts were distorted/perverted by humans.

14:18

Ra: I am Ra. I speak for the social memory complex termed Ra. We came among you to aid you. Our efforts in service were perverted. Our desire then is to eliminate as far as possible the distortions caused by those misreading our information and guidance.

23:6

At this entity’s physical dissolution from your third-density physical plane, as we have said before, our teachings became quickly perverted, our structures once again went to the use of the so-called “royal” or those with distortions towards power.

23:16

As in our experience the teachings were, for the most part, greatly and grossly perverted to the extent in later times of actual human sacrifice rather than healing of humans.

1:4

We spoke to one who heard and understood and was in a position to decree the Law of One. However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

Once again - how did RA "messed up"?

[pphuck]

there is nothing 'semantic' about responsibility

Good thing that wasn't what i stated then.

---

It's not about Ra being perfect or infallible, whether there are no mistakes or lots of them. I just want to know how did Ra "messed up"? Once again, they came to teach/learn, but their attempts were distorted/perverted by humans.

The mistake of not learning enough about humans to understand that the action would cause side effects Ra didn't want. The mistake of not spending enough time thinking and planning before acting. The mistaken naïve belief that what works for you will work for others.

Just because them "humans" distorted and perverted doesn't imply that Ra shouldn't have figured that out beforehand, being of a higher density and all.

An experiment of STO that went bad, most likely -- I believe, that there was a good deal of STS mixed into it. The want and need to make progress was too much of a driving force in the communication. With a pure STO mindset, the O would have taken a larger focus, and thinking and planning around the O would have lessened the obvious side effects.

... why do you think Ra stayed around to fix this unless Ra believes it messed up?

[Ankh]

The mistake of not learning enough about humans to understand that the action would cause side effects Ra didn't want. The mistake of not spending enough time thinking and planning before acting. The mistaken naïve belief that what works for you will work for others.

Just because them "humans" distorted and perverted doesn't imply that Ra shouldn't have figured that out beforehand, being of a higher density and all.

An experiment of STO that went bad, most likely -- I believe, that there was a good deal of STS mixed into it. The want and need to make progress was too much of a driving force in the communication. With a pure STO mindset, the O would have taken a larger focus, and thinking and planning around the O would have lessened the obvious side effects.

I understand that the above is just your own, personal ideas then?

... why do you think Ra stayed around to fix this unless Ra believes it messed up?

Love/desire to be of service to others. (Which are probably another bunch of naive beliefs I guess)

[3DMonkey]

How can there be 'no mistakes', yet then an identification of 'mistakes'? Sounds like Ra's reluctant use of 3D 'understanding'.

Folks, there are errors in judgement - often seen in retrospect. We call them 'mistakes'. Big deal. People here tend to be hyper-sensitive to pointing out 'flawed' actions. I think it's either due to some identification with personal value or worth to that action, or that the perceived intention of the action was the more important consideration. This is the realm of comparison or duality. One can work within and benefit from that illusion (by creating knowledge systems) while simultaneously not identifying with it (i.e. as would be indicated by the disowned, unconscious emotional responses to upsetting evaluations).

You do know you just described the meaning of the philosophy of the phrase "there are no mistakes", don't you? I believe you do.

---

@Ankh
to say 'Ra messed up' , to me, is to say that Ra isn't perfect. That's all. I mean, shouldn't they have known what the result would be? I think they did know, and I think it was still the processes of synchronicities that needed to happen. Had they not, then 1987 channeling wouldn't have occurred as it did. They aren't all knowing, but they can see closer to the "unity" of infinity. The explanations given are details of the humans twisting their intentions. Mistake? No not at all. All things necessary for the One thought.

[pphuck]

I understand that the above is just your own, personal ideas then?

Not really, it's what I'm reading Ra as stating itself in the Law of One.

"It was our naїve belief [...]" "We discovered that for each word we could utter, there were thirty impressions we gave [...]" "[...] as others became more sorrowful and confused, we were failures."

I do agree with these statements, but they are not my own.

---

to say 'Ra messed up' , to me, is to say that Ra isn't perfect. That's all. I mean, shouldn't they have known what the result would be? I think they did know [...]

"Naïve belief" and "we discovered" tells me otherwise. (Unless Ra was lying?)

[3DMonkey]

Haha. Indeed

[kycahi]

Perhaps this discussion calls attention to the differences between Ra's origin and Earth. Weren't they from Venus? They probably had much less catalyst and craziness than here, so they didn't know what they were getting into.

Saying that they underestimated the challenge does not say that they were incapable of doing the job, just that they discovered some assumptions during the first attempt. They backed off and tried again and again, so good for them and certainly for us.

Splitting into the two paths and increasing polarities generates the potential to do work, as pointed out elsewhere in these forums. The "work" includes enduring a high density of catalysts as well as big cross-challenges of the paths. I.e., STSers interfere with the STO style while STOers confuse them with unconditional love.

We "suffer" while in this 3D but after Harvest we will meet in time/space and exchange grins, high-fives and stories, making it worthwhile I hope.

[Ankh]

...while STOers confuse them with unconditional love.

We "suffer" while in this 3D but after Harvest we will meet in time/space and exchange grins, high-fives and stories, making it worthwhile I hope.

/

[seejay21]

65.11 Questioner: This entire scenario for the next twenty years seems to be aimed at producing an increase in seeking and an increase in the awareness of the natural creation, but also a terrific amount of confusion. Was it the pre-incarnative objective of many of the Wanderers to attempt to reduce this confusion?
Ra: I am Ra. It was the aim of Wanderers to serve the entities of this planet in whatever way was requested and it was also the aim of Wanderers that their vibratory patterns might lighten the planetary vibration as a whole, thus ameliorating the effects of planetary disharmony and palliating any results of this disharmony.

Specific intentions such as aiding in a situation not yet manifest are not the aim of Wanderers. Light and love go where they are sought and needed, and their direction is not planned aforetimes.

65.12 Questioner: Then each of the Wanderers here acts as a function of the biases he has developed in any way he sees fit to communicate or simply be in his polarity to aid the total consciousness of the planet. Is there any physical way in which he aids, perhaps by his vibrations somehow just adding to the planet just as electrical polarity or charging a battery? Does that also aid the planet, just the physical presence of the Wanderers?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and the mechanism is precisely as you state. We intended this meaning in the second portion of our previous answer.

You may, at this time, note that as with any entities, each Wanderer has its unique abilities, biases, and specialities so that from each portion of each density represented among the Wanderers come an array of pre-incarnative talents which then may be expressed upon this plane which you now experience so that each Wanderer, in offering itself before incarnation, has some special service to offer in addition to the doubling effect of planetary love and light and the basic function of serving as beacon or shepherd.

Thus there are those of fifth-density whose abilities to express wisdom are great. There are fourth and sixth-density Wanderers whose ability to serve as, shall we say, passive radiators or broadcasters of love and love/light are immense. There are many others whose talents brought into this density are quite varied.

Thus Wanderers have three basic functions once the forgetting is penetrated, the first two being basic, the tertiary one being unique to that particular mind/body/spirit complex.

We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

Sounds like a mission statement.

[pphuck]

Perhaps this discussion calls attention to the differences between Ra's origin and Earth. Weren't they from Venus? They probably had much less catalyst and craziness than here, so they didn't know what they were getting into.

Exactly correct. Thank you for pointing this out.

89.27 Questioner: Were some of Ra’s population negatively harvested at the end of Ra’ s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We had no negative harvest as such although there had been two entities which had harvested themselves during the third density in the negative or service-to-self path. There were, however, those upon the planetary surface during third density whose vibratory patterns were in the negative range but were not harvestable.

89.31 Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization upon such a positively polarized planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

89.33 Questioner: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

89.34 Questioner: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

89.35 Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?

Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom, an overabundance of love [...]

"Overabundance of love" not balanced with wisdom = naïve beliefs and actions. Good intent, not so good results (before balancing.)

[kycahi]

"Overabundance of love" not balanced with wisdom = naïve beliefs and actions. Good intent, not so good results (before balancing.)

Yep, that's your 4D, at least early stage and even in some 3Ds who open new green ray, in a nutshell: compassion, compassion, compassion.

[pphuck]

"Overabundance of love" not balanced with wisdom = naïve beliefs and actions. Good intent, not so good results (before balancing.)

Yep, that's your 4D, at least early stage and even in some 3Ds who open new green ray, in a nutshell: compassion, compassion, compassion.

Which brings me back to why I would trust STS communication to be STS more than I would trust STO communication to be STO -- with the clarification that the closer you get to 7D the less difference there is (not only because STS and STO merges into one unity.)

[pphuck]

Yep, that's your 4D, at least early stage [...]

I was thinking 5D rather than 4D, so I started looking through the Ra / Law of One material and came up with this quote.

48.5 Questioner: [...] Can you tell me how positive and negative polarizations in fourth and fifth density are used to cause working in consciousness?

Ra: I am Ra. There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density. The work that is accomplished in positive fourth is that work whereby the positive social memory complex, having, through slow stages, harmoniously integrated itself, goes forth to aid those of less positive orientation which seek their aid. Thus their service is their work and through this dynamic between the societal self and the other-self, which is the object of love, greater and greater intensities of understanding or compassion are attained. This intensity continues until the appropriate intensity of the light may be welcomed. This is fourth-density harvest.

Within fourth-density positive there are minor amounts of catalyst of a spiritual and mental complex distortion. This occurs during the process of harmonizing to the extent of forming the social memory complex. This causes some small catalyst and work to occur, but the great work of fourth density lies in the contact betwixt the societal self and less polarized other-self.

In fourth-density negative much work is accomplished during the fighting for position which precedes the period of the social memory complex. There are opportunities to polarize negatively by control of other-selves. During the social memory complex period of fourth-density negative the situation is the same. The work takes place through the societal reaching out to less polarized otherself in order to aid in negative polarization.

In fifth-density positive and negative the concept of work done through a potential difference is not particularly helpful as fifth-density entities are, again, intensifying rather than potentiating.

In positive, the fifth-density complex uses sixth-density teach/learners to study the more illuminated understandings of unity thus becoming more and more wise. Fifth-density positive social memory complexes will choose to divide their service to others in two ways: first, the beaming of light to creation; second, the sending of groups to be of aid as instruments of light such as those whom you are familiar with through channels.

In fifth-density negative, service to self has become extremely intense and the self has shrunk or compacted so that the dialogues with the teach/learners are used exclusively in order to intensify wisdom. There are very, very few fifth-density negative Wanderers for they fear the forgetting. There are very, very few fifth-density Orion members for they do not any longer perceive any virtue in other-selves.

If I understand this correctly, it's not until 5D that you need to balance love and compassion with wisdom. Understanding (in 4D) might be enough not to mess up like Ra did at first, but not until Wisdom is achieved (in 5D) would it be certain (to the extent anything can be certain.)

[kycahi]

If I understand this correctly, it's not until 5D that you need to balance love and compassion with wisdom. Understanding (in 4D) might be enough not to mess up like Ra did at first, but not until Wisdom is achieved (in 5D) would it be certain (to the extent anything can be certain.)

A little word game. My definitions of the rays and levels is that 3rd is where entities have become aware of others as much as themselves. They go through levels of "getting" that more until they, maybe by momentum, go beyond awareness of others into compassion for others. That qualifies them for 4th, where they develop more and more methods for expressing compassion.

At the highest levels of 4th, they get clues that compassion alone goes stale because it "helps" others so much that they can be stagnant and dependent.

Now they harvest to 5th, where they tune this bundle of clues into wisdom for tempering the compassion. They don't "need to balance" compassion with wisdom so much as just see that it's better, so tune their wisdom for best service. These words are pitiful, but approximate enough.

I never really got 6th from the Ra material except for the buzzword "sacred," so I decided that anything I come up with would be inadequate. I reached my limit of understanding.

[Confused]

A little word game. My definitions of the rays and levels is that 3rd is where entities have become aware of others as much as themselves.

Technically, I think that is actually a characteristic of the 4th density. Ra said the following in 19.10 --

There is one necessity for third density. That necessity is self-awareness, or self-consciousness.

That is why it is the level of making the CHOICE. The choice of appreciating the same ONE self in others, or denying it.

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My humble opinion, of course.

---

...enduring a high density of catalysts as well as big cross-challenges of the paths. I.e., STSers interfere with the STO style while STOers confuse them with unconditional love.

Wow!! just read that. That is powerful and powerful and powerful. Thanks. Is that why I resent unconditional love??!!

May be I am actually STS at my core.