Worship?

[Diana]

You enjoy your thought experiments and I will seek Self elsewhere.

You're right, I do.

But you could have chosen to focus on my last paragraph, unless you found no value there either. In any case, I do hope I haven't driven you away from this important conversation. You are still free to follow your own line of thinking, and please do.

[IndigoSalvia]

Are we not all multi-layered beings seeking assurance and protection as well as growth.  The difference, it seems to me, is in how these are proportioned per each individual.

Oh yes, I agree. I think of myself as a dish with ever-changing energetic ingredients in ever-changing quantities, ebbing and flowing between STO and STS (hopefully cumulatively STO-dominant). And, collectively we are an infinite dish.  

Perhaps, due to the resent chaos we are more apt to see first, separation, but that might expand our thirst for unity within our heart ?

I think flofrog summed it up nicely. When we sense safety, we might seek more safety, or seek challenges/growth at various intensities; and vice versa. And what one defines as safety & growth is going to vary. Mind-bogglingly infinite variations. 

Thus, going back to what MonadicSpectrum mentioned: recognizing and building on common ground, despite our seeming differences. When I remove all the 'noise' and distill the energies, I can see a lot of common ground out there among us. After all, STO and STS are both Love at their core, however, they are manifested differently here in 3D.

[Sacred Fool]

You enjoy your thought experiments and I will seek Self elsewhere.

You're right, I do.

But you could have chosen to focus on my last paragraph, unless you found no value there either. In any case, I do hope I haven't driven you away from this important conversation. You are still free to follow your own line of thinking, and please do.

No, you didn't drive me anywhere.  [Am I not all things, existing in all places?  hahaha]  No worries.  I just meant that my own interest is in following lines of thought which are less wandering and hypothetical, but more deliberately aimed at knowing Self.  (Hmm, if I'm avoiding wandering, then maybe that means I'm not a wanderer?  Oh, no!!!)

[jafar]

I think most religions seek to be loving, peaceful, and accepting of others in theory but usually fail to accomplish that in practice.

Each religion is different but let's zoomed in to the top 2 most popular religion (group) today as a case study.
The religion of Christianity and the religion of Islam.

Please mind the fact that the religion of Christianity was not founded by Jesus in the same manner as the religion of Islam was not founded by Mohammed.
And also the fact that the Gospel was not written by Jesus in the same manner as the Quran was not written by Mohammed.
Both publication was released many years after each entity's physical death by somebody else.

And also the fact that both religion has split to become hundreds of sub-religion, and each sub-religion is not the same either.
But let's make a generalization of both for simplicity sake.

From those publications let's cite something.
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
- John 14:6

"It is God Who sent His Messenger with guidance and a true religion that will prevail over all other religions, even though the pagans may dislike it."
-- Quran 9:33

Those two cited verses are often referred by each religion's priest / cleric / preachers as a reference of superiority.
The superiority of "our religion" against "other religion".

Thus I disagree that "religions seek to be loving, peaceful, and accepting of others".
Especially those 2 mentioned religions, they seek to be superior of others by claiming that their religion is the one and true religion and other religions are false religion.
Their religion will prevailed over other religions and those cited verse often act as justification to make any efforts to make it so.
Those who made the efforts (protecting / fighting for each religion) will be rewarded by Paradise while the 'enemy' will be tortured for all eternity in Gehenna / Jahannam (read: Hell).

Having said that, many of the religion's member somehow do not agree with the above notion.
But often they don't speak up and just keep it inside themselves.
Mostly due to the fear that it will makes them being labeled as apostate / murtad and 'death penalty' awaited those who do.
In addition of being tortured for all eternity in Gehenna / Jahannam after the execution of such 'death penalty'.

Thus I see this is a tug of war between entity's own 'conscience' and 'religion doctrine' that's happening within each entity who are member of such religion.

As it has been a common signature pattern, the STS / negative employs FEAR to have control over others.
And they induced such thought forms within religion.
Actually not only in religion they induced such thought forms in political doctrine as well.

Thus each entity should leverage those fear and transmute it to become courage.
Once they're able to do that, fear doesn't work anymore for them, the catalyst has helped them to found courage.
Those work apparently need to be performed by each entity as part of their 'spiritual journey'.

[MonadicSpectrum]

@jafar, I think you provide good examples of how religions can become twisted by cherry picking a few verses and extrapolating on them alone. In the larger context, I think there is no reason for these verses to cause division or not accepting others who believe other paths are true. Personally, I see no difference between those two verses from the Bible and Quran than the Ra material claiming that one must polarize in certain patterns to graduate to the next density instead of repeating a cycle in third density which will include much suffering. One can believe one knows the best or only true path while simultaneously accepting and loving others who choose a different path. And those who believe they know the truth also believe that truth will prevail over all other false beliefs, but this doesn't require one to fight or attack others for it to happen. It's the nature of truth and falsity that truth always wins in the end.

Let us look at some other verses that show the true ideal of each religion:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Mark 18:28-31 NLT

Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever!

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 NLT


"The servants of the Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility." (Quran 25:63)

"Allah loves those who are patient." (Quran 3:145)

"They (the true believers) give food, out of love for Allah, to the poor, the orphan and the slave, saying: We feed you only for Allah's pleasure - we desire from you neither reward nor thanks." (Quran 76:8-9)

"Whenever they (true believers) are angry they forgive." (Quran 42:37)

[Sacred Fool]

Yes, I agree that bashing religion is not spiritually uplifting.  And I agree that someone could (and someday will, predictably) pick passages from the Ra Material to make it look ridiculous.  And what purpose would that serve, I ask you?

The search for Self is difficult in the context in which we now live.  If people go off the rails, should we complain about them?  Should we wait for them to pull themselves together?  Should we offer assistance to the odd one who might be open to that?  Whom do you serve?

Worship and religion try to be about love.  If that is difficult in the context in which we now live, should we derogate our fellow seekers?  Should we respect them?  Should we pray for them?  What purpose would that serve?

[jafar]

@jafar, I think you provide good examples of how religions can become twisted by cherry picking a few verses and extrapolating on them alone. In the larger context, I think there is no reason for these verses to cause division or not accepting others who believe other paths are true.

Please be mindful that both Mr Jesus and Mr Mohammed DID NOT CREATE ANY RELIGION.
The Religion Of Christianity specifically Western Christianity was initially named as CATHOLICOS (Universal) formed or created by Roman Empire.
In the same manner, the religion of Islam was created by Arab Caliphate.

I'm not 'bashing' anyone, I'm just stating facts.
The creation of religion by itself was motivated with political objective in mind.
Once religion is viewed as such, literally everything about religion makes perfect sense!
The separation, the exclusivity, the superiority complex, the fear, the dogmatic concept etc..

Let's take religion of Islam for example.
In classical Arabic, the word 'islam' means 'peacefully acceptance'.
The word then used as a name of a religion by the caliph, thus it transformed into Islam ™, the religion.
Not long after inception, a power struggle breaks up the caliphate, thus a sub religion named Sunniism and Shiaism was formed, both claimed to be the 'true religion of Islam', the conflict and animosity between the two lasted until today.

This is similar to somebody created a religion named "Honest".
Thus the word "Honest" is transformed in it's meaning, from a description of specific character and attitude into a name of an exclusive club, the religion of Honest ™.

The same thing could potentially happened with Ra or Ra's material.
Well actually it has happened in the past isn't it?
During Ancient Egyptian time?

Recognize the pattern... and one will not be confused on what is what.
In summary the pattern of "Unity" vs "Separation", "STO" vs "STS" always happened in recurring manner.
Although how they're manifested varied throughout the ages.

The 'religion' was not 'twisted', as mentioned, Jesus and Mohammed never created any religion in the first place.
The 'creation of religion' is a tool to twist the message, or should I say 'enhance' the message.

And Mr Ra did mentioned that whenever "STO" material exist, it's "loyal opposition" the STS material will also exist, "enhancing" the materials.
Thus both are available, as catalyst, for any entity to choose.
One just need to see the 'pattern' and not to be confused on which is which.

[Diana]

This is an interview with Ram Dass on Jeffrey Mishlove's 90s show, Thinking Allowed. The whole interview is good, covering "all is one" and "acceptance" and other LOO ideas.

To the point, at 22:47 Ram Dass talks about worship in the way I think Sacred Fool is, in part, trying to explain.

[Sacred Fool]

Thanks for posting the video, Diana.  That discussion is different from what I was trying to express, however, it calls to mind the chorus of a song by Robert Burns.

A fig for those by law protected,
    Liberty's a glorious feast.
Courts for cowards were erected,
    Churches built to please the priest.



I'll try to put my thoughts in the context of a Q'uo quote from the reading done for myself.

In orienting you and those like you to the actual situation, we would ask each to move back in perspective until there is a broadness that takes in all of the third-density pattern. A pattern involves a choice of how to be and how to serve. In third density, the path to graduation involves a simple choice followed by a series of congruent choices which progressively tune the spirit under such discipline to the point where that spirit is able to surrender to love.  The difficulty is in releasing all of the intelligence and knowledge that is so proudly carried and so skillfully used in the outer manifestations of life on planet Earth.

So, if you accept the proposition that the training for graduation into 4D entails a complete surrender to love, then consider that genuine worship is actually an experience of surrendering to love.  It may be more or less skillful, efficacious or complete,  but it can be excellent training--FOR THOSE WHO RESPOND TO IT, and not all do--for that commitment to "tune the spirit" so as to be happy...happy beyond all measure...to surrender to love.  This is kind of what I've been trying to say.  It's on this level that I meant that personal gripes about how screwy religion or other humanoid fabrications might be are irrelevant.  On this level, priorities rearrange themselves in favour of love alone because the payoff is so fantastic.  And deep experiences of worship can lead one in this direction, in my experience.

[MonadicSpectrum]

And Mr Ra did mentioned that whenever "STO" material exist, it's "loyal opposition" the STS material will also exist, "enhancing" the materials.
Thus both are available, as catalyst, for any entity to choose.
One just need to see the 'pattern' and not to be confused on which is which.

I completely agree about the need for discernment for determining which parts of each religion are designed for serving others and which are designed for serving the self. But I think it's important to not limit the idea of a religion to just dogma, control, and exclusivity. That's giving the service-to-self faction full control over the word religion (and thus religious people) which is what they want as opposed to helping religious people choose to serve others within their chosen worldview which will naturally dismantle the religious control structures in the world.

Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, beliefs, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, and spiritual elements; however, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Religion itself is a very generic word, and I think it's more helpful to the world to not use our thought energy to bucket all religions and religious people into fear and control but rather use our thought energy to appreciate the good they do bring to the table. Most people who are religious will agree that their ideal is to be loving, peaceful, humble, and serving others. Rather than clashing over worldviews or paradigms and using energy to focus on how flawed others are, I think it's more helpful to our religious selves to love them, accept them, and help them be who they claim they want to be. Whether one believes Muhammed is the last true prophet or if Jesus is truly God isn't that important, in my opinion, compared to helping everyone learn how to love each other despite having differences of perspective.

[jafar]

I completely agree about the need for discernment for determining which parts of each religion are designed for serving others and which are designed for serving the self. But I think it's important to not limit the idea of a religion to just dogma, control, and exclusivity. That's giving the service-to-self faction full control over the word religion (and thus religious people) which is what they want as opposed to helping religious people choose to serve others within their chosen worldview which will naturally dismantle the religious control structures in the world

Exclusivity
There's an easy 'recommendation' for it.
Recommend 'religious' people to also join other religion, as many as they can.
Or ask the 'religious people' whether it's 'allowed' to also join other religion, especially the 'rivalling' religion.

Control and Dogma
Dogma = Idea that must not be questioned or challenged.
Dogma is basically a tool for control so let's combine this into one.
Questioned the person's idea, and see how she/he react.

In "Not Religion" free will is paramount, in "Religion" free will must be controlled or abolished.
In "Not Religion" blasphemy doesn't exist, in "Religion" blasphemy is punishable, often by death.

Some people uses 'different name' for 'not religion', they call it "Spirituality".
And has created quite good summarization to define the difference of characteristic..
https://divineintelligenceinstitute.com/...b90092.jpg

STS is basically based on the idea of "Separation", the one characteristic that easily gives them away is "Pride".
A strong sense of 'self superiority', as in order to be (self) 'superior' then the 'inferior others' must exist.
That's the driver why the STS social structure tends to be 'hierarchical'..

The "Not STS", named as "STO" is basically the exact opposite as it's based on "Not Separation" labeled as "Unity".

[MonadicSpectrum]

I completely agree about the need for discernment for determining which parts of each religion are designed for serving others and which are designed for serving the self. But I think it's important to not limit the idea of a religion to just dogma, control, and exclusivity. That's giving the service-to-self faction full control over the word religion (and thus religious people) which is what they want as opposed to helping religious people choose to serve others within their chosen worldview which will naturally dismantle the religious control structures in the world

Exclusivity
There's an easy 'recommendation' for it.
Recommend 'religious' people to also join other religion, as many as they can.
Or ask the 'religious people' whether it's 'allowed' to also join other religion, especially the 'rivalling' religion.

Control and Dogma
Dogma = Idea that must not be questioned or challenged.
Dogma is basically a tool for control so let's combine this into one.
Questioned the person's idea, and see how she/he react.

In "Not Religion" free will is paramount, in "Religion" free will must be controlled or abolished.
In "Not Religion" blasphemy doesn't exist, in "Religion" blasphemy is punishable, often by death.

Some people uses 'different name' for 'not religion', they call it "Spirituality".
And has created quite good summarization to define the difference of characteristic..
https://divineintelligenceinstitute.com/...b90092.jpg

STS is basically based on the idea of "Separation", the one characteristic that easily gives them away is "Pride".
A strong sense of 'self superiority', as in order to be (self) 'superior' then the 'inferior others' must exist.
That's the driver why the STS social structure tends to be 'hierarchical'..

The "Not STS", named as "STO" is basically the exact opposite as it's based on "Not Separation" labeled as "Unity".

I believe that this is an over-generalization and over-simplification of the complexity and uniqueness of religious belief and practices, but I can imagine this information is helpful to some religious folks who are confused about how to seek their religious ideal of unconditional love which respects free will. It's kind of like saying 'sports' is all about dominating others, crushing opponents, and following strict rules while 'not sports' is about learning to work together, helping others improve their skills, and creating new experiences where 'not sports' is something like theater. When in reality, both sports and theater have groups of people that focus on each of the six areas mentioned.

I appreciate this message from Abraham Hicks that talks about how the world is divided into many different groups of people across countries, religions, and politics and how many groups are not happy about others being in other groups (such as spiritual people not being happy about religious people). When in reality, there are only two groups of people that actually matter: those who are under the influence of source energy (or Higher Self) and those who are under the influence of something else, those who are connected to infinite intelligence and those who are blocked from it, those who are flowing through life with joy and those who are not, or those who are on the path of learning to polarize and those who are not. Compared to this, whether one is religious or not or in this political group or that one isn't so important. https://youtu.be/K1YYe9k-e7Q

[jafar]

I believe that this is an over-generalization and over-simplification of the complexity and uniqueness of religious belief and practices,

Of course is and I've stated it as such, ref below.
Belief / opinion vary to every individuals /entities.
No religion as of now has successfully enforced it's dogma to everyone.

Please mind the fact that the religion of Christianity was not founded by Jesus in the same manner as the religion of Islam was not founded by Mohammed.
And also the fact that the Gospel was not written by Jesus in the same manner as the Quran was not written by Mohammed.
Both publication was released many years after each entity's physical death by somebody else.

And also the fact that both religion has split to become hundreds of sub-religion, and each sub-religion is not the same either.
But let's make a generalization of both for simplicity sake.

I can imagine this information is helpful to some religious folks who are confused about how to seek their religious ideal of unconditional love which respects free will.

Yes it is
A stimulus / catalyst for them to overcome their fear is sometimes quite helpful.
By transmuting the fear, courage is then recognized.

They will then be more confident with themselves, willing to trust their intuition and conscience more.
As Higher Self / Holy Spirit / Spirit Guide talk to them through their own intuition and conscience.

Another catalyst that I usually offered to the religious is a questioning of:
"If Jesus is the only way, then what about those who were born before Jesus?"

You can easily replace Jesus with anything that the religious considered as holy / flawless/ idol / something that is more superior than their own conscience, such as Bible, Gospel, Torah, Mohammed, Quran, The Church, Religion of Christianity, Religion of Islam, Religion of Judaism etc..

[MonadicSpectrum]

@jafar, that makes sense and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Your perspective is valid, but I would just offer that it is perhaps more helpful to focus on helping religious people love others rather than seeking a journey to change their opinions on what "the way" is by offering catalyst. One catalyst that is often more effective in encouraging the religious to love is the statement, "I accept you as you are without needing you to change your beliefs or accepting my beliefs." One may consider the mirror between your desire for the religious to change their beliefs and the religious people you interact with who want you to change your beliefs.

When a war with each other
Is a war against ourselves
We both lose when we start the fight, oh no

https://youtu.be/avDC86fR-Lk

[jafar]

@jafar, that makes sense and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Your perspective is valid, but I would just offer that it is perhaps more helpful to focus on helping religious people love others rather than seeking a journey to change their opinions on what "the way" is by offering catalyst. One catalyst that is often more effective in encouraging the religious to love is the statement, "I accept you as you are without needing you to change your beliefs or accepting my beliefs."

Well loving others is hard for an entity that is caught / blocked on red ray chakra.
Meaning, thinking that their survivability is always at risk / insecure.
Or in shorter terminology: FEAR
Not only loving others, even loving their own self is very hard to do.

This is a "catch 22" situation.

That is the reason why our loyal opposition friends, the STSes always uses fear as a tool.
With addition of guilt, thus the dogma of "original sin" was being invented.
You are inherently guilty / sinful / not holy.
If you don't believe in X, join religion X, obey X, do X, worship X then by default you will be doomed for horrible punishment and torture by an angry God.

And fear is contagious, with much fear inside they will spread fear around.
This can be easily seen especially today during pandemic situation.

Now you know how our friend the STSes play their game, then the proper action is just do the opposite.
Bring confidence within them (yellow, orange), bring security to them (red, orange).
You are blessed, you are divine, more divine than any book/church/religion, and your are inherently and always will be guided and helped.

Only then they will be able to breakthrough the red, orange, yellow ray blockage, and start development towards green.
The chakra of love and compassion, loving their own self and loving others.

As for the technicality, there are many ways, proposing the question of ""If Jesus is the only way, then what about those who were born before Jesus?" is just a trigger to start something within them, a trigger for them to start the seeking, to start questioning.

[tadeus]

I am wondering if/how others "worship" the 1/I Creator, Creation? Is worshipping the Source necessary?

There has already been everything comprehensive answered.

Let me simply add an cartoon:

[IndigoSalvia]

Ah, Tadeus, thank you. 

[flofrog]

Tadeus

[jafar]

Found interesting 'channeled' materials from an entity labeled as "The Founders" regarding Yeshua's story.
https://youtu.be/FcdaGA6CTfs?t=750

Today's Christianity religion has nothing to do with Yeshua's teaching as it mainly focus on "sins" and "guilt" thus offering "salvation from an angry God" only if one join their group.

Any entity / figure who claimed that "he/she is the only way to the father" clearly demonstrated "separation" philosophy, thus gives away their STS characteristic. The truth is the opposite, any way you choose will lead to the Father, including the ways which are manipulative, brutal and grotesque (the IS NOT/STS path)

Thus in it's 'strange way' the STS/IS NOT also serve as a guidance to show the IS.

Any entity / figure who claimed that "He is God" (and you are not) also clearly shows STS characteristic.
The entity claimed to be "Yahweh" can act as an example for this.
Thus the proper reply for those who claimed that "He is God" would be "So am I and so are they".
As the truth is the opposite, everything is in God, God is in everything.

I heard a story from Sufi tradition which is similar to this.
A Sufi master told his students that "I am God" in which one of his student replied with "So am I and so are they", The Sufi master smiled and replied with "You've understood the essence of my teaching".

Any entity / figure who claimed that "He is higher being and superior to you" (and you are inferior and must worship/serve him) also clearly shows STS characteristic.
As the truth is the opposite, everything is God's children and nothing is more superior than others, more divine than others.
All the 'wonderful stuff' that Yeshua demonstrated during his incarnation can also be performed by you.

[Patrick]

I think saying it has nothing to do with it nowadays is going a bit too far. The heart of his teachings are still there and visible for those who actually want to see it. But yeah, many chooses not to.

[tadeus]

The religions are 'only' part of a manipulated and rewritten history to manipulate the people.

[jafar]

I think saying it has nothing to do with it nowadays is going a bit too far. The heart of his teachings are still there and visible for those who actually want to see it. But yeah, many chooses not to.

‘I have said; You are “gods"; you are all sons of the Most High"
-- Psalm 82

“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’?
-- John 10

But what does majority of today's Christianity focusing on?
1. Jesus is God's only son.
2. All human are inherently sinful because their great grandpa ate a fruit #originalSin.
3. Jesus was horribly tortured and died but not died in order to appease the God who will then forgive the sin of human caused by point #2
4. Unless human accept and worship Jesus as God their sin inheritance from their great grandpa will not be forgiven and when they die they will be tortured for all eternity.

The religions are 'only' part of a manipulated and rewritten history to manipulate the people.

Manipulation, Egoic Pride and using Fear to control are among the signatory hallmarks of our STS brothers and sisters.

[Patrick]

I realise that and yet if a seeker wishes to find truly positive inspiration from the Bible, as given by Yeshua, they will find it and they will focus on that and discard the rest as nonsense.

[Sacred Fool]

I realise that and yet if a seeker wishes to find truly positive inspiration from the Bible, as given by Yeshua, they will find it and they will focus on that and discard the rest as nonsense.

I would second that emotion and add that it requires very little talent to take something clean and soil it.  This is an obvious characteristic of this illusion.  That which is pure and fragile can easily be corrupted and twisted.  The whole point here is to find all this stuff within--not so much without--and choose the path of innocence and peace or the path of tumult and aggression/protection.  Each pathway resides within and awaits the choice.  Happy trails!