Session 89 - Two Negatively Polarizing Wanderers

[flofrog]

Love that last sentence Minyatur, with  which I totally agree..

[Sacred Fool]

I'm not sure why you are so concerned with polarity and harvest.

The thing with the material is that there was a clear intent on the purpose of sharing the Law of One, but the questioning derailed from there for the vast majority of the work. I doubt harvest was what was wanted to be brought, I think the questionings on the mechanics of the Universe brought it to that natural aspect of this plane and the means of how it function, from there then are given many tools to distort what is into what it is not. It's not for nothing they say they have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to our peoples, this is rarely what people are interested in a material that wants to share just that, but through the mean of answering questions for their own reasons. Then, many people become tormented by things they are confused about, just because they use this material to focus on separation rather than unity.

Knowledge of the Law of One is the great healer, because truly all is well. Separation is a paradox that yields itself if freely focused.

These two passages would seem to offer a different point of view.

14.4 ▶ Questioner: I understand [from] previous material that this occurred 75,000 years ago. Then it was our third-density process of evolution began. Can you tell me the history, hitting only the points of development, shall I say, that occurred within this 75,000 years, any particular times or points where the attempts were made to increase the development of this third density?

Ra: I am Ra. The first attempt to aid your peoples was at the time seven five oh oh oh [75,000]. This attempt seventy-five thousand [75,000] of your years ago has been previously described by us. The next attempt was approximately five eight oh oh oh, fifty-eight thousand [58,000] of your years ago, continuing for a long period in your measurement, with those of Mu as you call this race or mind/body/spirit social complex. The next attempt was long in coming and occurred approximately thirteen thousand [13,000] of your years ago when some intelligent information was offered to those of Atlantis, this being of the same type of healing and crystal working of which we have spoken previously. The next attempt was one one oh oh oh, eleven thousand [11,000], of your years ago. These are approximations as we are not totally able to process your space/time continuum measurement system. This was in what you call Egypt and of this we have also spoken. The same beings which came with us returned approximately three five oh oh [3,500] years later in order to attempt to aid the South American mind/body/spirit social complex once again. However, the pyramids of those so-called cities were not to be used in the appropriate fashion.

Therefore, this was not pursued further. There was a landing approximately three oh oh oh, three thousand [3,000], of your years ago also in your South America, as you call it. There were a few attempts to aid your peoples approximately two three oh oh [2,300] years ago, this in the area of Egypt. The remaining part of the cycle, we have never been gone from your fifth dimension and have been working in this last minor cycle to prepare for harvest.


52.9 ▶ Questioner: Well, I would just include the question as to why time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.  The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher-density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfectly balanced. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

The second passage does not refer to Ra specifically, but the implication is that Ra, as members of the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow are here for that same reason.

  

[Minyatur]

I'm not sure why you are so concerned with polarity and harvest.

The thing with the material is that there was a clear intent on the purpose of sharing the Law of One, but the questioning derailed from there for the vast majority of the work. I doubt harvest was what was wanted to be brought, I think the questionings on the mechanics of the Universe brought it to that natural aspect of this plane and the means of how it function, from there then are given many tools to distort what is into what it is not. It's not for nothing they say they have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to our peoples, this is rarely what people are interested in a material that wants to share just that, but through the mean of answering questions for their own reasons. Then, many people become tormented by things they are confused about, just because they use this material to focus on separation rather than unity.

Knowledge of the Law of One is the great healer, because truly all is well. Separation is a paradox that yields itself if freely focused.

These two passages would seem to offer a different point of view.

14.4 ▶ Questioner: I understand [from] previous material that this occurred 75,000 years ago. Then it was our third-density process of evolution began. Can you tell me the history, hitting only the points of development, shall I say, that occurred within this 75,000 years, any particular times or points where the attempts were made to increase the development of this third density?

Ra: I am Ra. The first attempt to aid your peoples was at the time seven five oh oh oh [75,000]. This attempt seventy-five thousand [75,000] of your years ago has been previously described by us. The next attempt was approximately five eight oh oh oh, fifty-eight thousand [58,000] of your years ago, continuing for a long period in your measurement, with those of Mu as you call this race or mind/body/spirit social complex. The next attempt was long in coming and occurred approximately thirteen thousand [13,000] of your years ago when some intelligent information was offered to those of Atlantis, this being of the same type of healing and crystal working of which we have spoken previously. The next attempt was one one oh oh oh, eleven thousand [11,000], of your years ago. These are approximations as we are not totally able to process your space/time continuum measurement system. This was in what you call Egypt and of this we have also spoken. The same beings which came with us returned approximately three five oh oh [3,500] years later in order to attempt to aid the South American mind/body/spirit social complex once again. However, the pyramids of those so-called cities were not to be used in the appropriate fashion.

Therefore, this was not pursued further. There was a landing approximately three oh oh oh, three thousand [3,000], of your years ago also in your South America, as you call it. There were a few attempts to aid your peoples approximately two three oh oh [2,300] years ago, this in the area of Egypt. The remaining part of the cycle, we have never been gone from your fifth dimension and have been working in this last minor cycle to prepare for harvest.


52.9 ▶ Questioner: Well, I would just include the question as to why time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.  The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher-density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfectly balanced. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

The second passage does not refer to Ra specifically, but the implication is that Ra, as members of the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow are here for that same reason.

They state their purpose in the very first question.

1.1 ▶ Questioner: It seems members of the Confederation have a specific purpose. Is this true with you, and if so, what is your purpose?

Ra: I am Ra. We communicate now. We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

We are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to your peoples. We have walked your earth. We have seen the faces of your peoples. This is not so with many of the entities of the Confederation. We found it was not efficacious. However, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One. We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times.

Does this give you enough information from which to extract our purpose, my brother?

[Sacred Fool]

They state their purpose in the very first question.

Yes, and later they state why they came here to teach the LOO, namely, to help with the harvest.  What am I missing?

They go on at length about how 3d earthlings should meditate and so forth in order to strengthen their polarity to the point where those positively oriented can become able to energize their heart center so as to be able to begin using 4d light so that they can be "harvested," don't they?  Do I have that wrong?

I'm not sure what you're communicating.  Are you saying that they are coming to 3d entities and advising them to skip over vivifying the heart center and enjoy a 6d lifestyle centering on oneness? 

I realize this line of inquiry is stretching this thread out of shape just a bit, but I'm curious.  Do I have it all wrong?

  

[Louisabell]

They state their purpose in the very first question.

Yes, and later they state why they came here to teach the LOO, namely, to help with the harvest.  What am I missing?

They go on at length about how 3d earthlings should meditate and so forth in order to strengthen their polarity to the point where those positively oriented can become able to energize their heart center so as to be able to begin using 4d light so that they can be "harvested," don't they?  Do I have that wrong?

I'm not sure what you're communicating.  Are you saying that they are coming to 3d entities and advising them to skip over vivifying the heart center and enjoy a 6d lifestyle centering on oneness? 

I realize this line of inquiry is stretching this thread out of shape just a bit, but I'm curious.  Do I have it all wrong?

  

I see that Ra's (the channel) purpose was to communicate their truth as clearly as possible, which for them is the Law of One.

But let's consider the greater context. Why did three wanderers incarnate here at this time to complete the mission of bringing through the channel? They apparently even spent other life-times to prepare for this mission.

9.2 ▶ Questioner: Is it possible for you to tell us of anything in our past incarnations, our past experiences before this incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. It is possible. However, such information as this is carefully guarded by your mind/body/spirit being totality so that your present space/time experiences will be undiluted.

Let us scan for harmless material for your beingness. [20-second pause.] I am, in the distortion of desire for your freedom from preconception, able to speak only generally. There have been several times when this group worked and dwelt together. The relationships varied. There is balanced karma, as you call it; each thus the teacher of each. The work has involved healing, understanding the uses of the earth energy, and work in aid of civilizations which called just as your sphere has done and we have come. This ends the material which we consider harmless.

12.32 ▶ Questioner: [Is it] possible for you to tell us if any of the three of us are and have been Wanderers?

Ra: I am Ra. In scanning each of the mind/body/spirit complexes present, we find an already complete assurance of this occurrence and, therefore, find no harm in recapitulating this occurrence. Each of those present are Wanderers pursuing a mission, if you will.

I think Ra made it pretty clear that the reason wanderers are incarnating here at this time is to help with the harvest of 3d peoples into 4d. And yet, you have the below statement...

36.24 Ra: I am Ra. We can approximate the percentage of those penetrating intelligently their status. This is between eight and one-half and nine and three-quarters percent. There is a larger percentile group of those who have a fairly well defined, shall we say, symptomology indicating to them that they are not of this, shall we say, “insanity.” This amounts to a bit over fifty percent of the remainder. Nearly one-third of the remainder are aware that something about them is different, so you see there are many gradations of awakening to the knowledge of being a Wanderer. We may add that it is to the middle and first of these groups that this information will, shall we say, make sense.

So I have concluded that the main reason of the Ra material is to act as a guide/user manual for wanderers (and some 3d souls further along), to speak to their deep memory and awaken what they already know. In this way wanderers can (relatively) quickly activate green ray, making them positive harvestable and capable of tending to 3d souls in order to aid in planetary harvest.

[AnthroHeart]

Does penetrating intelligently their status mean like you've gotten proof you're a wanderer,
or just that you somehow know you are one but can't explain why?

[Louisabell]

Does penetrating intelligently their status mean like you've gotten proof you're a wanderer,
or just that you somehow know you are one but can't explain why?

I don't think anyone can get solid proof of being a wanderer. Even if that information was channelled to me I wouldn't take it as fact, but I have a very high bar for what I take to be objectively true. Not to say I wouldn't work with that information.

I think when Ra says 'penetrating intelligently' they are describing a person who has a conscious awareness that their spirit is not the average. I don't think the conceptual knowledge of this has to fit into the light-worker/wanderer paradigm. It could just be the acknowledgement that you have an "old soul", are "saintly" or have a calling from god for some sort of service.

[Minyatur]

They state their purpose in the very first question.

Yes, and later they state why they came here to teach the LOO, namely, to help with the harvest.  What am I missing?

They go on at length about how 3d earthlings should meditate and so forth in order to strengthen their polarity to the point where those positively oriented can become able to energize their heart center so as to be able to begin using 4d light so that they can be "harvested," don't they?  Do I have that wrong?

I'm not sure what you're communicating.  Are you saying that they are coming to 3d entities and advising them to skip over vivifying the heart center and enjoy a 6d lifestyle centering on oneness? 

I realize this line of inquiry is stretching this thread out of shape just a bit, but I'm curious.  Do I have it all wrong?

Your quote that mentions harvest speaks of the confederation and the one I shared speaks of their distinct purpose from the one of the confederation. Based on that one, they are not still here for harvest but out of responsability for the distortions created with their previous interactions here, because they are old here unlike most of these brothers and sisters of sorrow that are here just for the harvest time.

Anyhow, what I am saying is that times and times again there are members that are unconcerned with unity and instead focus on rapid polarilization and I haven't seen that to turn out good. They become confused and unstable in their relationships, even to the extent of blaming the material for their miscomprehension of it.

I think it is well to be interested in all these things, polarity is plain a natural aspect of your experience that is there but it always does seem distorted to make it your prime focus.

There is this quote I've used many times in the past:

Ra: I am Ra. To give this query a simple answer would be nearly impossible.

We shall simplify by concentrating upon what we consider to be the central idea towards which you are striving. We have, many times now, spoken about the relative importance of balancing as opposed to the relative unimportance of maximal activation of each energy center. The reason is as you have correctly surmised. Thusly the entity is concerned, if it be upon the path of positive harvestability, with the regularizing of the various energies of experience. Thus the most fragile entity may be more balanced than one with extreme energy and activity in service to others due to the fastidiousness with which the will is focused upon the use of experience in knowing the self. The densities beyond your own give the minimally balanced individual much time/space and space/time with which to continue to refine these inner balances.

What I was saying is that unity is the mean to find balance and healing and for a lot there is little to no focus there and instead a belief that what is important is a maximal activation of their energy centers. Unity is found in all these concepts, yet they are made use of without focus on unity and this yields distortions and confusion.

So to stretch it one last time. Talking about harvest and polarity was not an issue, but it gave the mean for these concepts to be distorted by confused individuals. The Law of One, the core of what they say they want to share, does not negate having polarity, nor advancing upon the STO path, but it offers the key to not be stuck in paradoxes and thus be more effective about that polarization. I think there is clear lesson regarding being confused about one's own intent in the story about the two negatively polarizing wanderers. For some others though, knowing about harvest brings them about just fear of reincarnating instead of bringing them to focus on the love of acceptance.

So to go back on what I was saying in this thread, you can do whatever action you want to do in your desire to be of service, but be mindful of the color of the energy you put into it because this is what has an effect and your balance is your own responsability. Polarity without balance is the negative path, because it holds on blockages to work and it is a seeking of power upon your external reality instead of seeking to find to love.

[Minyatur]

I don't think anyone can get solid proof of being a wanderer.

Confusion is an effect of being veiled and the veil is semi-permeable, so there's many things you can pierce the forgetting and gain knowledge of in your seekings.

[Louisabell]

I don't think anyone can get solid proof of being a wanderer.

Confusion is an effect of being veiled and the veil is semi-permeable, so there's many things you can pierce the forgetting and gain knowledge of in your seekings.

I agree to an extent. There's a lot of knowledge I inuit that I work with. However, I like to be very sure of what I absolutely know as fact and what information cannot be objectively validated, even if I find this information useful or likely to be true. I have found that keeping this disciplined grounding approach to be beneficial in balancing an overactive indigo (my fault for overactivating it in the first place).

In my opinion, knowledge that one is a wanderer is transient information. We are all human now, through and through.

[Minyatur]

I don't think anyone can get solid proof of being a wanderer.

Confusion is an effect of being veiled and the veil is semi-permeable, so there's many things you can pierce the forgetting and gain knowledge of in your seekings.

I agree to an extent. There's a lot of knowledge I inuit that I work with. However, I like to be very sure of what I absolutely know as fact and what information cannot be objectively validated, even if I find this information useful or likely to be true. I have found that keeping this disciplined grounding approach to be beneficial in balancing an overactive indigo (my fault for overactivating it in the first place).

In my opinion, knowledge that one is a wanderer is transient information. We are all human now, through and through.

I agree the information is transient, are we not all the things afterall?

The idea should not be a tool to separate, but can still be an effective tool in seeking to know oneself. The most powerful, beautiful and real experiences I've had all related to seeing clearly my own nature as spirit and Creator. Because while I am a human with a mind and a body, the spirit portion of myself is where the magic really lies.

I found this bit I had forgot that touches how I see it:

The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere.

I'd say in my experience, to remember what you are, is the effective and balanced approach. The purpose then is why what you are is where it is. In my case my seeking was driven by pure curiosity to know what I am, what others are and what everything is and I found that to be in alignment with the Octave and opening many doors.

[redchartreuse]

It does not change the fact that this is still the density of sleep and forgetting. You were not born remembering all your incarnations upon this plane, it was veiled just like what's in between.

Eh?  OK I think either we are talking about two different things, or have come to an impasse.  Your response, again while overall quite agreeable to me, appears to be responding to everything but the central point.   I'm just not sure whether this is intentional or not at this point!  You seem earnest enough to me, however I am not sure why you are avoiding the main point.

Perhaps it is because we are at an impasse.  Which is fine.  

It appears that you believe people who are spiritually asleep within their incarnation are choosing to do so.  I believe they have been unwittingly manipulated into such a state.

Perhaps it is a bit of both.  But in any case, I feel that the remainder of what we both have been saying makes total sense, and quite logically follows from our basic premise.

The thing is we don't appear to agree on the basic premise.  Which is fine, and I don't even think one of us needs to be "right" here and one of us needs to be "wrong."

If we put ourselves back in that little Trekky scene I shared earlier, it is as if you and I, two equal ranking officers on the ship, have different views on whether or not we would be breaking the Prime Directive by taking a particular action.

I see your points.  I do not agree with your assessment that people are choosing to sleep within their incarnations.  If I did, I think I would be right there with you about everything else.

And that is great!  Thank you for being here.  I do very much enjoy exploring the borders and fringes of various philosophies.

It is our own responsibility to balance ourselves and an avoidance of doing so in attempting to balance others is a distorted endeavor. I'm not denying its purpose, I'm just saying what it is in response to your questionings.

It is no more or less distorted than attempting to balance one self.  

The positive polarity attempts to see through the illusion to the Creator in each mind/body/spirit complex, but for the greater part is concerned with behaviors and thoughts directed towards other-selves in order to be of service. This attitude in itself is full of the stuff of your third-density illusion.

We of the positive polarity must needs interact with other selves.  We cannot do their work for them, not because it would be "right or wrong" to do so, but because we simply cannot do it.   It is not possible for us.

And this is why telling somebody "this or that" about themselves, or giving them feedback on their opinions that may have not been explicitly asked for.... this is not doing their work for them.  It is simply an attempt at communication.

What needs to be understood is that free will is in truth unbound to every other law, certain things only make sense later in time and one gets to see why they had to not see.

Fair enough.   I would only add for the possibility of also, later in time, to see that what appeared to have been a free will choice at one level, was not at another level.

And indeed, that type of "detuning" process... we could also call it "brainwashing" or "mind hacking"... or for example in the cases of child molestation we might call "grooming" is most definitely a favorite toy of those on the negative path.  It's all about manipulating others bit by bit... step by step drawing them away from their center, all the while being very careful to make sure that the victim "agrees" with each step they are taking.

Taking action to nudge somebody toward their center, is a different type of action.

I'm not sure why you are so concerned with polarity and harvest.

The thing with the material is that there was a clear intent on the purpose of sharing the Law of One, but the questioning derailed from there for the vast majority of the work.

I'm not primarily concerned with that.  As I previously mentioned, my interest is in the communications about this creation being experimental in nature.  And discussing how changing various parameters and conditions of the experiment might produce different results.  Polarity and harvest just so happen to be two of the outcomes of these experiments that can be measured and compared.

Yet, since we find ourselves poorly equipped to measure polarity from within the illusion, we cannot make many claims about individual cases, however we may generalize across the whole.  It is not ideal, but it is what we are given to work with.

Ra says (if we are to take them at their word) that the purpose of incarnation is to spiritually grow and evolve, and that the various Logoi have set themselves about to create various environments where this spiritual growth is to occur.

I am not going to take the time to repeat these points again here, so by all means keep participating.  However, if you choose to persist in drawing me off the central point, and making me repeat myself over and over, then I will just stop responding here.  If that happens, please take no personal offense.

[Sacred Fool]

Talking about harvest and polarity was not an issue, but it gave the mean for these concepts to be distorted by confused individuals. The Law of One, the core of what they say they want to share, does not negate having polarity, nor advancing upon the STO path, but it offers the key to not be stuck in paradoxes and thus be more effective about that polarization. I think there is clear lesson regarding being confused about one's own intent in the story about the two negatively polarizing wanderers. For some others though, knowing about harvest brings them about just fear of reincarnating instead of bringing them to focus on the love of acceptance.

I do agree that balance is a key factor, and I like your point in the last sentence above about "harvest" bringing about fear of reincarnation for some.  (Honestly, every time I type that word "harvest" in this context I feel like I'm in a low budget Sci-Fi film.)

Regarding the passion for polarity many people who have passed through here have expressed, I've come to see much of that, along with the perennial fascination with rubbing shoulders with STS groups, as a nascent form of power distortion such as occurred with the Egyptians and others.  They might disagree, but I've seen very few say explicitly, "I wish to know in order to serve."

  

[Minyatur]

I'm not primarily concerned with that.  As I previously mentioned, my interest is in the communications about this creation being experimental in nature.  And discussing how changing various parameters and conditions of the experiment might produce different results.  Polarity and harvest just so happen to be two of the outcomes of these experiments that can be measured and compared.

Yet, since we find ourselves poorly equipped to measure polarity from within the illusion, we cannot make many claims about individual cases, however we may generalize across the whole.  It is not ideal, but it is what we are given to work with.

Ra says (if we are to take them at their word) that the purpose of incarnation is to spiritually grow and evolve, and that the various Logoi have set themselves about to create various environments where this spiritual growth is to occur.

I am not going to take the time to repeat these points again here, so by all means keep participating.  However, if you choose to persist in drawing me off the central point, and making me repeat myself over and over, then I will just stop responding here.  If that happens, please take no personal offense.

I think we mainly disagree in how we see the nature of the experience. Like how I said I think although there is talk about rapid growth in using the veil, the point of it is more about offering a satisfactory variety and vividity of experience to the experiencer(Creator). So then sped up growth is less the goal and more of an effect.

I had shared my view of the Logoic work with you in another thread, but I think it is directly tied to infinity and so their aim is to manifest a literal allness of experience.

That entities are with free will is something I've found in my own seekings and something which I want to offer the faith of to others' seeking. I am fine with agreeing to disagree.

[Louisabell]

I don't think anyone can get solid proof of being a wanderer.

Confusion is an effect of being veiled and the veil is semi-permeable, so there's many things you can pierce the forgetting and gain knowledge of in your seekings.

I agree to an extent. There's a lot of knowledge I inuit that I work with. However, I like to be very sure of what I absolutely know as fact and what information cannot be objectively validated, even if I find this information useful or likely to be true. I have found that keeping this disciplined grounding approach to be beneficial in balancing an overactive indigo (my fault for overactivating it in the first place).

In my opinion, knowledge that one is a wanderer is transient information. We are all human now, through and through.

I agree the information is transient, are we not all the things afterall?

The idea should not be a tool to separate, but can still be an effective tool in seeking to know oneself. The most powerful, beautiful and real experiences I've had all related to seeing clearly my own nature as spirit and Creator. Because while I am a human with a mind and a body, the spirit portion of myself is where the magic really lies.

I found this bit I had forgot that touches how I see it:

The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere.

I'd say in my experience, to remember what you are, is the effective and balanced approach. The purpose then is why what you are is where it is. In my case my seeking was driven by pure curiosity to know what I am, what others are and what everything is and I found that to be in alignment with the Octave and opening many doors.

Indigo understandings pulled from violet are based in unity consciousness, not as sentiment, but as self evident. I know myself to be a microcosm of infinity. There is no limit to my consciousness. Everything I perceive, I am, because it is I that have projected it and given it life in my mind's eyes. As time progresses, my perceptions only become more subtle in nature. I am as yet to find out if there are any limits to this. I have found all catalyst in my life to be acted upon love, making me an embodiment of love. This is what I know myself to be.

Details such as if one is a wanderer or past lives or pre-incarnative missions are well protected as to not infringe on the freewill experienced in the incarnation. This information can be inuited, but that is not the same as knowing beyond all doubt. Doubt is important in strengthening faith.

Let me put it another way. I act as though I am a wanderer because my faith inspires me to do so. I do not act as though I know I am a wanderer because I would not be so bold. I try not to place limits on my intuition. Think of the polarity that believing in something brings. When x and y cannot co-exist, believing in x means that you believe y is impossible. So when one chooses to believe in something as absolute fact, think of what other possibilities you are now choosing to exclude. This only narrows one's intuitive potential.

It is uncomfortable not to know. I have spent a lot of time and energy resisting this, to no avail. But through my intense struggles I have come to accept this.

16.39 ▶ Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

I hope you have come to see me, and perhaps learn a little about who I am and how I see the world.

[flofrog]

I have found all catalyst in my life to be acted upon love, making me an embodiment of love. This is what I know myself to be.

I was so moved when I read this Louisabell because this is so perfectly what I perceive too. Thank you. Same as when you write a little further

' Doubt is important in strengthening faith.

When I found this forum and read posts for about a week before I became a member, I thought everyone was probably a wanderer, since everyone was so knowledgeable about Ra. Then I learned a bit, today I would not even intuit that I am one, but I am ready to act as one.. lol Thank you Louisabell it felt really good to read you.

[redchartreuse]

So I have concluded that the main reason of the Ra material is to act as a guide/user manual for wanderers (and some 3d souls further along), to speak to their deep memory and awaken what they already know. In this way wanderers can (relatively) quickly activate green ray, making them positive harvestable and capable of tending to 3d souls in order to aid in planetary harvest.

I would only add to what you have said here in seeing the through the lens of my own biases and distortions, it appears that Ra also made it quite clear that they are still here- first and foremost- in an attempt to balance the great harm to human development on earth that they inadvertently caused by being naive and heavily unbalanced in their bias toward love and compassion, and away from wisdom and understanding.

They spoke of themselves while in such a state of unbalanced love, of having allowed themselves to be placed in a hypocritical position.

There are three observations I have around this:

First, that their allusions to their own propensity for making errors, not only in their past actions, but in the making of the material at hand as well, appear to be overlooked by many who read, perhaps, with the sort of bias that is leaning in the same direction as Ra's.

Second, that when discussions come up around the great folly in being too heavily biased toward love, things tend to get real squirrely, real quick.  Seems to trigger a lot of people off.  And same goes for discussions around whether Ra may have actually misspoke at times and NOT had it corrected in a later session.  Or whether our Solar Logos, itself, may have actually inadvertently caused unneeded suffering in its sub-Logoi, out of a similar bias as experienced by Ra.

Thirdly, that the addition of the vibrations of wisdom and understanding do not take away from those of love and compassion.  One does not need to sacrifice their loving or compassionate nature, in order to engage in the embracing of wisdom.  Just like one does not need to sacrifice their emotional nature, in order to embrace the intellect.  

All that needs to be placed upon the inner altar of sacrifice in order for love and compassion to be balanced with wisdom and understanding, is the desire for martyrdom.

Well, perhaps another thing, if we consider it to be a different thing.  But it is the need for outer acknowledgment of one's piousness and the need of the ego to be recognized by others as "one of the good guys."  

[Glow]

I find this thought pattern of no one knowing if they are a wanderer or not interesting.
It is clearly known that the 3 who channeled the material knew themselves to be wanderers and Ra confirmed this to them yet you do not think it is possible to know if we are wanderers or not.

It’s I believe more accurate that many will not to know if they are a wanderer but also that many will know, and that is also as it is meant to be. The confusion is plentiful regardless.

I knew as a small child before I even had words that I wasn’t from here.
I would stare out the windows and up and yearn for home though I had no idea what or where it was I knew this place/energy wasn’t what I was used to feeling.
I saw ghosts, as naturally as seeing a painting hung on the wall had a very bizarre awareness since early childhood of things at this time I am without words to explain. The societal programming of fear took most of that away for a long stretch of time but it wasn't a question.

It is possible to know, especially since the original 3 who channeled the material knew before it was confirmed to them.
As to ego how can there be ego in it when there is no higher/lower, goodguy/bad guy. We are all one.
To have a intrinsic knowledge that this "place"/state of separation isn't the truth is all it means to be a wanderer.
Awareness of oneness, and the discomfort of the world of separation doesn't leave room for ego, that is a belief of separation.

There is plenty of confusion without that question, one can know that and still be plenty confused.

[Louisabell]

It is possible to know, especially since the original 3 who channeled the material knew before it was confirmed to them.

Well think about it like this. If the 3 of them knew without any doubt, then why ask Ra in the first place? It would be like asking if the sky was blue. Or think of a situation where you did a good job. When someone compliments us, we don't respond with "yeah, I know". Instead we say something like, "well I thought so, but I'm very glad to have outside confirmation".

We can always reject/ignore our intuition. We don't have to believe in the information channelled by Ra. We can wake up tomorrow and just think everything we thought up until now was nonsense. Actually I've done this a few times because I would get sick of a wave of negative greeting, and it would make it stop.

I want to make it perfectly clear. I am not here to tell anyone that they're not a wanderer! I think it's likely you are a wanderer Glow. I think it's likely that many people here are wanderers. My opinion is that while I can't say you are a wanderer, if you're not one, then I don't know who would be! Who else fits the M.O. as well? And if you say you know, then that is great. I have no qualms about it.

I'm just trying to highlight the function of faith in our lives. Faith is our spiritual powerhouse. When everything is falling down around us, and everything is pointing to disaster, it is faith that allows us to power through. It is faith that makes us hold to our principles when everyone around us is corrupt. It is faith which makes us impervious to the physic attack of others because whatever they do, they can't break us.

So I'm very proud that I don't know these things, but that I still chose to act as though they are true anyway, because it says a lot more about me as a person.

There are some situations however where people do end up knowing for sure, namely some powerful NDE experiencers. These people say how the other-side was so hyper-real that it makes this life the dream. They can't discount it as an overactive imagination and come back as completely different people and devote their whole lives to service. Below is an account I find especially inspiring:



But note what he says after 41:30. Here are some quotes - "I have no faith ... when I died, god took belief from me ... to me only god is real and this is the place of passage and illusion."

I find that super interesting. It's like he's turned into a messenger of god, and he is no longer a spiritual being undergoing a normal incarnation where the faculties of love and faith need to be developed under a veil.

[Louisabell]

Second, that when discussions come up around the great folly in being too heavily biased toward love, things tend to get real squirrely, real quick.  Seems to trigger a lot of people off.

I think the main trigger point here is people's respect for the freewill of others. Love freely given can be freely rejected. There is no opposition to freewill in love. Wisdom not so much, only when it is asked, which is why many spiritual traditions base their teachings on a student question and teacher answer format.

All that needs to be placed upon the inner altar of sacrifice in order for love and compassion to be balanced with wisdom and understanding, is the desire for martyrdom.

Martyrdom resulting in physical death is the most extreme expression, but there are many inner deaths. How many of us were taught as children not to express our needs or preferences so as to not 'inconvenience' the adults around us. Who among us learnt to become just that little bit more invisible as to not step on the toes of others? Who learnt to be placid as to not trigger the rage of others?

The balance of wisdom and love is not so simple.

Love tells us the other is perfect. Wisdom tells us that we must also assert our own perfection, not for our sakes, but because it is not loving to allow an abuser to abuse. They are hurting themselves just as much in the long run.

[Glow]

So in that case I have had near deaths. Not true near deaths where you get all the way to some heaven experience but enough close to death experiences where you are out of your body and experience the other side.

Perhaps that is partially why I don’t feel a conflict.
Since I was a kid and also in my contact with the other side it is clear this is the illusion.

As usual though I do not think one way is better or worse just different awarenesses.
I unfortunately do not really benifit from knowing. It still feels like a masquerade I do not wish to be part of.
Like cognative disonence in every moment of experienced separation. Always some new experience for the creator I guess.

[AnthroHeart]

But note what he says after 41:30. Here are some quotes - "I have no faith ... when I died, god took belief from me ... to me only god is real and this is the place of passage and illusion."

I find that super interesting. It's like he's turned into a messenger of god, and he is no longer a spiritual being undergoing a normal incarnation where the faculties of love and faith need to be developed under a veil.

I've listened to about half of the sermon. I love anecdotal evidence because in those stories you hear about genuine human life.
I am watching the rest now.

[Louisabell]

But note what he says after 41:30. Here are some quotes - "I have no faith ... when I died, god took belief from me ... to me only god is real and this is the place of passage and illusion."

I find that super interesting. It's like he's turned into a messenger of god, and he is no longer a spiritual being undergoing a normal incarnation where the faculties of love and faith need to be developed under a veil.

I've listened to about half of the sermon. I love anecdotal evidence because in those stories you hear about genuine human life.
I am watching the rest now.

Me to. I love seeing the non-verbal communication that comes through as well. The emotion, the inspiration, the energetic connection. It's like I'm right there experiencing it with him. Glad you're enjoying it!

[redchartreuse]

I think the main trigger point here is people's respect for the freewill of others.

So do you also believe- while acknowledging that we are speaking in generalities- that spiritually sleeping people are choosing to sleep?

Love freely given can be freely rejected.

It is no different for wisdom.  The evidence for this is the fact that all the wisdom of the sages of the ages still lay there, quite freely given, and quite freely rejected by the vast majority of the populace.

Do you really think that I- or anybody- has the ability to fully "awaken" another person at our own will?  At the time of our own choosing?   Because we would need to actually have that ability, before we set about to "violate other's free will" with it.    

Martyrdom resulting in physical death is the most extreme expression, but there are many inner deaths. How many of us were taught as children not to express our needs or preferences so as to not 'inconvenience' the adults around us. Who among us learnt to become just that little bit more invisible as to not step on the toes of others? Who learnt to be placid as to not trigger the rage of others?

How many of us have learned to quietly subvert our own intentions for our own lives- indeed our own will- so that we may be of loving service to another self that continues to stumble while sleepwalking?

Sleeping people... it is not like they are of no consequence to others.  Those of us who are awake (to whatever varying degree individually and collectively) find ourselves near continuously (during our wakeful moments) in the position of compassionately cleaning up the messes which our sleeping selves leave as a trail of pain and suffering.

Seems to me- Sleeping selves violate the free will of those intending to awaken more than the other way around.

The reason for this is that the purpose of taking an incarnation is to spiritually grow.  And in order to spiritually grow, one must needs take on the garment of a body.  

Therefore, if a soul comes forth according to the "seniority system of incarnation" and is placed into incarnation on ultra-late third density earth, and proceeds to not grow or spiritually evolve, they are not only (in)acting against their own free will, but they are in violation of the free will of other souls who wanted to come here, but found that the last space had been taken, metaphorically speaking.

So to step forth in front of another and say, "I will go!  I will do it." and then go and not do it... not do the thing that you agreed you were going to go do... seems like a pretty big violation of free will to me.  For both self and other-self.

And keeping in mind- the thing that you were to go do... was simply to grow.  No more, no less. The incarnated entity is completely at its own free will to choose the direction and velocity of growth.  

It's the attitude toward growth that counts.  

Having a negative attitude toward spiritual growth and evolution- seeing it as a harm toward the other-self.  As something that needs to be defended against and shielded from.  Not holding each other in the space where we lovingly accept each other in the moment, with the full expectation and understanding that the only way forward is to actually get over ourselves and each other, and get back on the growth wagon.

I wonder if this is what Ra meant by "inappropriate compassion."

Love tells us the other is perfect.

A seed is perfectly a seed, whether or not it bears fruit.  A fruit is also perfect, whether or not it bears seed.  

Yet- What lofty poetries that love would offer as platitudes are often empty of true meaning in the higher light of wisdom.

In other words, yes, but so what?   Growth and evolution are part of that perfection.  They don't stand outside of it.  They are not "opposed" to it.  

Fully acknowledging the perfection- the greatness- of another human being must needs include their tremendous potential for spiritual growth and evolution, along with a positive enthusiasm for the other self to reach out and embrace that potential.

It is not patting another on the head and saying, "There there, dear, you are perfect just the way you are.  Don't you ever change!"

[Diana]

I don't feel jugment for you and instead attempt to point out the paradox I see in your queries.

Yes, this exactly!  Which is why I put it in quotes.  You are attempting to point out the paradox you see in my queries.  I assuming you wish to do this for my benefit, and to help move me closer to my previously stated goal of understanding.  Yes?

The difference is that we are all here in discussion. Presumably, we accept the idea, since we are here to discuss, that others' opinions may be given.

The other difference is attachment to outcome. If Minyatur speaks of what he sees, I'm fairly certain he is not attached to an outcome; he is expressing what he notices. A Zen slap, from what I can gather from this discourse, comes with an attachment—that the person being slapped "gets" whatever it is that the person doing the slapping tells them. This is control. When offering insights, one's own filters and paradigms might be considered when "knowing" what someone else "needs." On the other hand, it is always, in my opinion, okay to speak your truth as long as there is no attachment to outcome.

Additionally, if one feels judged, one can look within to find out why. It doesn't do much good to look out at the judge in my experience.

[redchartreuse]

The difference is that we are all here in discussion. Presumably, we accept the idea, since we are here to discuss, that others' opinions may be given.

I really don't see us all being here incarnated on Earth circa 2019 and "crossing paths" as any different than us all "being here in a discussion forum" in terms of the level of consent required to use the spoken or written word in the presence of other selves.

The other difference is attachment to outcome.

Certainly, becoming attached to outcomes is a potential hazard of interacting with others.  But I'm not sure why you see this as a difference between myself and Minyatur, or why you would choose to insert yourself into this perceived difference- unasked for- to ostensibly make a point of how important the asking is.

If Minyatur speaks of what he sees, I'm fairly certain he is not attached to an outcome; he is expressing what he notices.

As far as I am aware, Minyatur has not authorized you to speak on their behalf.  And so I can only accept this comment to the degree in which your offering of it gives me information about you , and not about Minyatur.

A Zen slap, from what I can gather from this discourse, comes with an attachment—that the person being slapped "gets" whatever it is that the person doing the slapping tells them.

It's not clear to me how you have gathered this from the discourse at hand, however yes I would say if one gets hung up on the other person "getting something" in particular then that would be problematic.

Maybe sharing a story about a person I am close to was confusing, because yes in that particular instance I was/am feeling attached to them "getting something" because their behaviors were/are infringing on my personal space, as well as that of a child entrusted to my care.  Probably not a great example, in retrospect.

On the other hand, it is always, in my opinion, okay to speak your truth as long as there is no attachment to outcome.

Yes- I think in the case of what would otherwise be a "random" interaction with another, it is relatively easy to hold a space of non-attachment.

[Minyatur]

If Minyatur speaks of what he sees, I'm fairly certain he is not attached to an outcome; he is expressing what he notices.

As far as I am aware, Minyatur has not authorized you to speak on their behalf.  And so I can only accept this comment to the degree in which your offering of it gives me information about you , and not about Minyatur.

Like I said I want to offer the faith of what I have found in my own seekings.

I can't just convince anyone, but for myself, times and times again when I am stuck in the illusion of separation and distress is at bay in how I cannot resolve a meaning to what I see happening, I seek and touch that truly all is well and find to see the meanings that were hidden to me.

So more than wanting to convince someone, I want to offer my own faith that this direction can be explored. That Free Will is and that truly in the Law of One all paradoxes are resolved. I don't believe everyone has to realize Infinity and Unity, nor that this would even be any well, but it is what I have made the choice to want to offer and do so when I feel drawn to. The perk of being an online poster is that I do not need a disclaimer that says "take what resonates with you", because I think that is already what anyone will do in this setting.

So the statement does seem like a valid evaluation based on repeating patterns of interaction over years. I tend to get stuck in debates but that is more because I find them stimulating and fruitful, than because I want any outcome. I believe myself to be all the things in quite the literal fashion.

[Diana]

The difference is that we are all here in discussion. Presumably, we accept the idea, since we are here to discuss, that others' opinions may be given.

I really don't see us all being here incarnated on Earth circa 2019 and "crossing paths" as any different than us all "being here in a discussion forum" in terms of the level of consent required to use the spoken or written word in the presence of other selves.

To me, there is a difference. When I come here, and I see threads with subject lines, I assume these threads are created for the purpose of discussion. Out in the world, this is not the case. People go about their business, shopping, working, taking care of their families, and all the things people do. They don't necessarily want to discuss anything, so this is not a given in the world of human interaction. Many are asleep, as you point out, so evolving is not usually a conscious goal. I do think evolving is an innate imperative, but most people resist that which points out the need to change or grow. So I don't think there is any level of consent one can assume with human interaction in general. But here, on this forum, there is a level of consent (unless I am completely misled on this point).

The other difference is attachment to outcome.

Certainly, becoming attached to outcomes is a potential hazard of interacting with others.  But I'm not sure why you see this as a difference between myself and Minyatur, or why you would choose to insert yourself into this perceived difference- unasked for- to ostensibly make a point of how important the asking is.

I don't need to be asked by anyone to participate in any discussion here. I can see that maybe you feel I singled you out. That was not my intention. I was just expressing my thoughts on the subject—which are not rigid by the way. I reserve the right to change and evolve my perceptions.

If Minyatur speaks of what he sees, I'm fairly certain he is not attached to an outcome; he is expressing what he notices.

As far as I am aware, Minyatur has not authorized you to speak on their behalf.  And so I can only accept this comment to the degree in which your offering of it gives me information about you , and not about Minyatur.

Fair enough.

I was responding to the posts, but I have known Minyatur for a number of years now through these boards. In truth I was using his (presumed) standpoint as a basis of comparison.

A Zen slap, from what I can gather from this discourse, comes with an attachment—that the person being slapped "gets" whatever it is that the person doing the slapping tells them.

It's not clear to me how you have gathered this from the discourse at hand, however yes I would say if one gets hung up on the other person "getting something" in particular then that would be problematic.

Maybe sharing a story about a person I am close to was confusing, because yes in that particular instance I was/am feeling attached to them "getting something" because their behaviors were/are infringing on my personal space, as well as that of a child entrusted to my care.  Probably not a great example, in retrospect.

The OP seemed to me to reflect the idea that you wanted to make (anyone) asleep get your messages. But that was an assumption on my part. Apologies if I was wrong about that.

On the other hand, it is always, in my opinion, okay to speak your truth as long as there is no attachment to outcome.

Yes- I think in the case of what would otherwise be a "random" interaction with another, it is relatively easy to hold a space of non-attachment.

I'm not so sure. Most people are attached to outcomes in a number of ways—at least that's my observation. And becoming aware of, and learning to rise above, attachment, is not easy. Maybe in an inconsequential interaction such as a random greeting or casual conversation where there is nothing to attach to this is true (and might be what you mean?). But I find that detachment is rare in this world—detachment that derives from knowledge of free will, self-responsibility and accountability, and unconditional love.

[Cainite]

@redchartreuse,

While I like many things u say, I have to disagree about yoru ideas concerning ''freewill''.

But yeah.. only the person who's burning will know the heat of the fire, the effects of unloving ways.
Many think this heat doesn't even exist... because it's not happening to them....yet.

There are people who think racism is not really a problem.. until they become a victim of it.

I'm sure you have things to teach the peoples. I actually appreciate it.

[redchartreuse]

Like I said I want to offer the faith of what I have found in my own seekings.

Yes, that sounds perfectly natural to me.  It is natural to want to share what was found within the self with others- really that is a cornerstone of being of service to others.

I can't just convince anyone, but for myself, times and times again when I am stuck in the illusion of separation and distress is at bay in how I cannot resolve a meaning to what I see happening, I seek and touch that truly all is well and find to see the meanings that were hidden to me.

It seems to me that you are seeking to share 7D vibrations and philosophy in a 3D/4D environment.  Which is well, and just as acceptable and permissible as attempting to share 5D/6D vibrations of wisdom and understanding.

Let's try this:  Imagine a world where people must ask permission to smile at another person, due to the presence of a small percentage of the population who feel threatened and intimidated by the baring of teeth.

OK, now let's become aware that, in infinity, such a world exists.  Now let's imagine it is one possible future for earth.  Is that the one you would choose?

I tend to get stuck in debates but that is more because I find them stimulating and fruitful, than because I want any outcome.

Me too.  

I was looking forward to seeing if there were any stimulating responses to the question of whether some people are truly choosing to sleep, or whether it is more like they have been drugged and put to sleep.

So far, I would say the overall weight of opinion in this thread is sharply biased toward the first option.  However, little has been offered in terms of any real consideration of the second option.