6D Wanderers: 3D Lessons?

[unity100]

'walking the steps of light' has been the harvest method pre-veil. and it is probably employed in planets that dont employ a veil. this is a planet that has heavy veiling, and hence the polarity harvest method applies here. it isnt even certain that walking steps of light method is used anymore, after the invention of the veil and the other 3d harvest method. we are just assuming, in nonveil planets, it may be used.

judging from what we have been told, there isnt a 'one size fits all' harvest. there are separate harvests and harvest standards for each density, just like how each density has its own distinct nature.

[βαθμιαίος]

'walking the steps of light' has been the harvest method pre-veil.

it isnt even certain that walking steps of light method is used anymore, after the invention of the veil and the other 3d harvest method.

What is your source for these claims? Walking the steps of light is Ra's description of our current harvest. It's a way of measuring polarity.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

[carrie]

hi unity,
where did you get your information from?

[unity100]

Here

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

82.29 Questioner: You have stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize more than 50% service-to-others to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#14

What is your source for these claims? Walking the steps of light is Ra's description of our current harvest. It's a way of measuring polarity.

that is incorrect. you are missing an important difference.

in pre veil method, steps of light were created, each of which carried a certain nature of light. the place entity stopped, was to be the entity's level.

in post veil method (for 3d at least), a line of light is created, and, the entity stops according to the strength of light. not, the certain quality. that defines whether it is polarized and how much it is polarized, like in the quote you referenced below :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#14

6.14 Questioner: I think that it would be appropriate to discover how the Law of One acts in this transfer of beings to our planet and the action of harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

so,

in pre-veil harvest method (for at least 3rd density harvest), steps of light were created, each with a certain QUALITY of light, and the place entity stopped was determining its particular density.

in post-veil harvest method (for at least 3rd density harvest, but probably for 3d harvest, because others do not depend on polarity as a mandatory qualification), how close an entity gets to the light defines its situation. in short, INTENSITY of light defines the entity's polarity.

therefore, they are fundamentally different. pre-veil harvest method of walking steps of light, is not applicable, on this veiled planet. intensity of light along a line method, is used for harvest on a veiled 3d planet. at least, on this planet.

..................

if we think on it, at the first, pre-veil harvest method, probably law of attraction was used to determine entity's density, and in second, polarity is measured against a certain, refined source of light strength.

---

the harvest method of 'strength of light along a line of light' for 3d on this planet, is an important reason why any kind of higher density harvest cannot be done with that method of harvest. for 4d, 5d, 6d harvests, leave aside the requirement for presence of society complex in 4d and 6d harvests, polarity is not a direct factor in regard to harvest. especially, apparently for harvest from 4d, to 5d.

[ricdaw]

in pre-veil harvest method (for at least 3rd density harvest), steps of light were created, each with a certain QUALITY of light, and the place entity stopped was determining its particular density.

in post-veil harvest method (for at least 3rd density harvest, but probably for 3d harvest, because others do not depend on polarity as a mandatory qualification), how close an entity gets to the light defines its situation. in short, INTENSITY of light defines the entity's polarity.

therefore, they are fundamentally different. pre-veil harvest method of walking steps of light, is not applicable, on this veiled planet. intensity of light along a line method, is used for harvest on a veiled 3d planet. at least, on this planet.

Unity, this is an amazing discernment! I had not noticed a difference in the two descriptions and had blended them together into one. This needs some more pondering on my part. Thank you for sharing this insight!

[unity100]

actually, for a very long time, i have also thought the same. ie 'steps of light' harvest was in practice, and this harvest on this planet was a harvest in which anyone from any density could get harvested to whatever density they were going to. moreover, i also had mixed the two, bringing the polarity into the equation, and thinking that i had to polarize in order to do anything regarding higher vibrations, rather than balancing.

[βαθμιαίος]

So you're distinguishing quality of light from intensity of light? I think that may be reading to much into it. In the quote you give from session 82, Ra uses the term intensity in reference to both pre- and post-veil harvests: "The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator." I think the steps of light example they give there is still relevant now. They just gave it so that Don could think about harvest in a way other than the 50% STO/5% STS rubric.

It's still steps in the sense of a graduated scale, and there's still resistance at the boundary.

See for instance "32.12 The nature of vibration is such that it may be seen as having mathematically straight or narrow steps. These steps may be seen as having boundaries. Within each boundary there are infinite gradations of vibration or color. However, as one approaches a boundary, an effort must be made to cross that boundary."

Also, Ra does mention steps in regards to our current harvest when they say, "51.1 The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light."

[unity100]

first of all, if it had been otherwise (ie no difference in between quality of light and intensity of light), there wouldnt be two separate harvest methods for pre and postveil 3d harvests, and we wouldnt even be talking on them. there wouldnt be a need to employ two different harvest methods, and just the same method used pre-veil would be in practice here and now. but, it isnt. there are clearly separate harvest methods, clearly identified as being pre-veil and post-veil, therefore, there IS difference among them. the differences, we gleam from the description of Ra, as they told there. its the quality-imbuing of steps of light in another, the intensity of light on a straight line on another.

"51.1 The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light.

you are still missing the underlined while quoting for reference.

'steps of light' in the first preveil method, has QUALITY of light in each step. in the second 3d harvest method, post veil, STRENGTH of light increases as you go along a line.

just having 'steps' or 'steps of light' wordage in each identificator does not mean that they are the same. actually we are told that the two methods differ.

now, lets make a hasty analysis into the part you quoted :

postveil method : entity enters harvest. it goes along a line. as it goes forth, the strength of light increases. the entity, depending on the quality/vibration/whatever of light, or its surroundings, or, its own biases/mental conditionings/confusion, may stumble and fall away. for that, entities of confederation stand by the 'steps of light', holding those who fall for any reason and enabling them to fall away or stop only due to strength of light.

the place they stop, or fall away, in an increment along the line, may fall in between 50% to 50% positive category. OR, it may fall in between 95% to 99% negative category.

now lets examine the harvest method preveil :

there are steps of light, each imbued with a quality of light. not the strength. they may all be in equal strength even.

entity walks among them towards 8 (probably), and, stops at the step of light on which it cant go any further, due to quality of light. apparently there is no relevance in polarization in this category.

...............

naturally there would be considerations in regard to violet ray balance, or red ray strength. but what is certain is that, as Ra says, there are two different harvest methods employed pre and post veil, and their differences are explained.

i dont think it is even worth debating that whether these are the same or not. they are not the same. it is explained to us, how they differ. they do differ, and not the same.

[carrie]

I'm sorry.

Did you have any near death experiences to quantify your arguments?

I did walk on the steps of light and see no difference between the two things you mentioned. I think they are both same/similar.

[unity100]

as a simple example ;

a 4d society complex may be 95% positively polarized, but, may be ready for 5d harvest according to 5d criteria. another, may be 99% positively polarized, but may not still qualify for harvest in regard to 5d criteria.

if you put these society complexes to the postveil method used here, the 99% polarized one would stop closer to the light source than the 95% polarized one. if you put these on the preveil method, however, the 95% polarized one would stop in a further step than the 99% polarized one.

intensity/strength of light != vibration/frequency/quality.

this is why, the harvest method here cant be applied to higher density entities, which do not have polarization as a fundamental in their harvests. (leave aside society complex requirement). and since, there are no society complexes undergoing harvest on this planet atm, there cant be any harvest but 3d be done. (an exception here may be 5d harvest into 6d, but we have no information on that other than that it can be done individually, and polarity is not a factor).

the one exception is that, ra had said that they have came here from venus, 'wanting to be of service' (details unknown), and has remained in the 5d of this planet (earth) ever since then. however, as far as what we know, they are not undergoing harvest of their own. (6d).

---

I'm sorry.

Did you have any near death experiences to quantify your arguments?

I did walk on the steps of light and see no difference between the two things you mentioned. I think they are both same/similar.

i didnt have any near death experiences relevant to this subject to quantify my arguments. my arguments are based on what Ra said, as referenced above. you may have walked the steps of light. however, the harvest here, as explained, are being done according to strength of light in a straight line. this line, may be stepped. (actually it should be stepped, since intervals are trying to be determined in regard to polarization). however what is being measured, is the strength of light.

i have other experiences which may be parallel to these. however, they are personal and subjective, just like any personal experience, and cannot be shown/put forth as an argument to prove a point, against the material we have.

moreover, and more importantly, interpretation/subjective understanding of the experience would further complicate the problem.

you have walked the 'steps of light'. but, were you measured against the strength of light ? you went close to the light, and you have felt such abundant love and that. but, you would feel that love regardless of whether you were being placed on preveil quality of light steps, or, postveil strength of light line. because, if you are of love vibration, what you would feel, would be love, in either of the cases. subjectively, there may not be difference from the perspective of the entity at all. regardless of it is a step, or a light source, the entity will vibrate with the quality of energy it takes in. it is not a measure of polarity strength. (or strength of light that is).

lets say you have walked the quality of light steps. have you walked those steps on this planet ? how are you sure that, it did not happen a long time ago in a nonveiled planet, or, on another planet in the galaxy that doesnt employ a veil still ?

moreover, are you sure that, it was your own unique experience, unique in that you, as an individual fragment of your 7d totality, was the one experiencing it in this universe and reality, than, another carrie living in another parallel reality, in another universe ? ( one can refer to the subject of a 7d mind/body/spirit complex totality experiencing parallel existences as much as it needs according to its particular balance needs in Ra material - the more balanced the 7d totality is, the less need for experiencing parallel realities/universes).

no, we cant be really sure about that, because the experiences of self, are subjective and elusive. and cant be put forth as definite bulwarks to analyze.

that is why i am not dispensing any personal experiences.

---

it is also possible that, if you have been thinking that harvest is steps of light, your subconscious may have allowed the experience to slip to your conscious in the manner you would understand as such, or, it may have gotten automatically shaped as such while leaking.

[βαθμιαίος]

You didn't address the fact that Ra used the term intensity of light in regards to the pre-veil harvest.

I don't think Ra did talk about two different types of harvest. The steps of light quote from session 82 is basically just a restatement of the intensity of light quote from session 6.

Furthermore, your argument is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The requirements for harvest are set by the Logos, not by the sub-Logos. The sub-Logoi can decide to veil or not to veil in their design of third density, but it whether they veil or not doesn't change the nature of the harvest. As Ra said, "the requirements of harvest are set." (89.45) And again, "the biasing mechanisms cannot change the requirements for achieving harvestability either in the positive or in the negative sense." (90.23). I couldn't quickly find a quote to this effect, but it's clear that just as the biasing mechanisms can't change the requirements for achieving harvestability, neither can the veiling or lack thereof.

You seem to have formed the idea that the lessons of third density were different before the veil from what they are now. This is incorrect. From session 82:

"The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density."

And again:

"Your queries seem to be pursuing the possibility/probability that the mechanisms of experience in third density are different if a mind/body/spirit is attempting them rather than a mind/body/spirit complex. The nature of third density is constant. Its ways are to be learned the same now and ever. Thusly, no matter what form the entity facing these lessons, the lessons and mechanisms are the same."

And again:

"82.21 Questioner: Then even though, from our point of view, there was great evolutionary experience it was deemed at some point by the evolving Logos that an experiment to create a greater experience was appropriate. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and may benefit from comment. The Logos is aware of the nature of the third-density requirement for what you have called graduation. All the previous, if you would use this term, experiments, although resulting in many experiences, lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; that is, polarization. There was little enough tendency for experience to polarize entities that entities repeated habitually the third-density cycles many times over. It was desired that the potential for polarization be made more available."

[unity100]

You didn't address the fact that Ra used the term intensity of light in regards to the pre-veil harvest.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

i dont see 'intensity' anywhere here.

I don't think Ra did talk about two different types of harvest. The steps of light quote from session 82 is basically just a restatement of the intensity of light quote from session 6.

if they were just the same and a 'restatement', the two harvests wouldnt be differentiated. they are clearly are. i dont know how differently this can be put into words. you dont talk about different harvests, a differentiation, if there is not a difference.

i dont even know how to respond. 'restatement' ?

Furthermore, your argument is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The requirements for harvest are set by the Logos, not by the sub-Logos. The sub-Logoi can decide to veil or not to veil in their design of third density, but it whether they veil or not doesn't change the nature of the harvest. As Ra said, "the requirements of harvest are set." (89.45) And again, "the biasing mechanisms cannot change the requirements for achieving harvestability either in the positive or in the negative sense." (90.23). I couldn't quickly find a quote to this effect, but it's clear that just as the biasing mechanisms can't change the requirements for achieving harvestability, neither can the veiling or lack thereof.

there is no difference in between logos or sub logos, what we know is, what one discovers is available to all of them. and what we know is, there are still planets close to galactic core that do not employ veils.

it is possible that these planets too, now employ the intensity of light, postveil harvest method.

however what we know for sure is, at some point, veil was discovered, and new methods were developed.

i dont see how this is relevant to there being two different in any case.

veiling can change a lot of things, however. before the veil, ra says there was a very long 3d, a very long 4d, and 'when the entities started seeing the creator', a very fast (comparably) route to 8d. now, there are 3, 4, 5th, 6th densities that take their due time.

apparently, veil changed a lot of things.

You seem to have formed the idea that the lessons of third density were different before the veil from what they are now. This is incorrect. From session 82:

"The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density."

And again:

"Your queries seem to be pursuing the possibility/probability that the mechanisms of experience in third density are different if a mind/body/spirit is attempting them rather than a mind/body/spirit complex. The nature of third density is constant. Its ways are to be learned the same now and ever. Thusly, no matter what form the entity facing these lessons, the lessons and mechanisms are the same."

And again:

"82.21 Questioner: Then even though, from our point of view, there was great evolutionary experience it was deemed at some point by the evolving Logos that an experiment to create a greater experience was appropriate. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and may benefit from comment. The Logos is aware of the nature of the third-density requirement for what you have called graduation. All the previous, if you would use this term, experiments, although resulting in many experiences, lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; that is, polarization. There was little enough tendency for experience to polarize entities that entities repeated habitually the third-density cycles many times over. It was desired that the potential for polarization be made more available."

well, i didnt 'form' this idea. according to the quotes we have, there are two different harvest methods for preveil and postveil. had there been no change, they wouldnt have explained to us as being different, and there would be NO need to differentiate in between preveil and postveil harvest.

im missing your point. what exactly are you proposing ? despite Ra has explained that there are two different harvest methods for postveil and preveil, you are saying that there isnt ?

and, for that end, taking the postveil harvest as a 'restatement' of the preveil, and, equating intensity of light, with quality (vibration or frequency) of light ?

it seems so, and lets say that it is as such. then, there would be no need to classify harvests as preveil, and postveil. ra does this classification. there would be no need to explain them differently, because they would be the same.

however they arent.

moreover, the red underlined part, is important, and answer to your individual quotes of the last part - the difference of preveil and postveil experience, is emphasis on polarization. there hasnt been a negative polarization preveil, there is now. thus, apparently, the harvest method has been arranged as such, if we are seeking for any reason for the both being different. note that, im not saying they might not be different, they are clearly different, because it is differentiated in the material clearly as preveil and postveil.

[βαθμιαίος]

You omitted the first paragraph that mentions intensity:

"The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service."

Polarization, or to put it another way, the "ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator" is the requirement for third-density harvest. The reason for the introduction of the veil was that entities were not polarizing and, hence, not being harvested. It didn't change the nature of the harvest; it was an attempt to better prepare entities for harvest.

[unity100]

You omitted the first paragraph that mentions intensity:

"The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service."

Polarization, or to put it another way, the "ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator" is the requirement for third-density harvest. The reason for the introduction of the veil was that entities were not polarizing and, hence, not being harvested. It didn't change the nature of the harvest; it was an attempt to better prepare entities for harvest.

i dont understand what you are trying to mean. are you aware that, what you say above, supports what i have been saying ?

ra answers to don's question about the difference in between veil, and preveil harvest requirements.

answer starts as thus :

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

you are concluding from the 2nd sentence that both preveil and postveil harvests require intensity of light, and therefore, the steps of light quality method should have been measuring intensity/strength of light, and therefore it is also the same now, and therefore both should be the same. despite there is no pointer, or link in that paragraph or entire q/a or its follow up, to it being about the preveil situation. that is way out of proportion conclusion due to numerous reasons, leave aside two harvests methods being explicitly told to be different. i mentioned this, now ill just touch the specific parts relating to the above :

the above describes the polarization concept ; entities are required to receive, accept, and use a certain strength, intensity of light. that is polarization. and because the criteria is now dependent on that (polarization - except of course a minimum violet ray balance), now service to self graduation and its polarity is possible.

this does not mean that the entities are not required to have a certain vibration or appreciation and understanding of a certain quality of light, even now. however, now, as it is said numerous times in regard to preveil and postveil situations in material, the emphasis, and criteria is on the POLARITY concept. the entire reason for veil, is to enable and magnify this polarity concept. therefore, the harvest method for 3d is different now. preveil, the emphasis was not on polarity.

hence, the difference in 3d harvest methods for preveil and postveil.

[βαθμιαίος]

Polarization was the requirement before the veil, too. As you quoted, "All the previous, if you would use this term, experiments, although resulting in many experiences, lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; that is, polarization."

[unity100]

now, if you take a look at the quote, you quoted, it says, previous experiments resulting in many experiences, LACKED what was considered the crucial ingredient, that is, polarization'.

i am in the impression that you are taking polarization as positive polarity, and concluding that it existed before the veil.

but, apparently the polarization that is being talked about here is the situation of there being both a positive, and negative polarity, and moreover, there being polarity minimums for both. ie, 51% positive, and 95% negative.

that is probably why, it is told that the previous experiences LACKED polarization, as a crucial ingredient.

[βαθμιαίος]

Before the veil, entities lacked polarization and therefore were not harvested. They had to repeat third density many, many times before the could generate the necessity polarity to get past the resistance at the boundary.

The lessons of third density are the same before and after the veil. The test to determine if an entity has learned the lessons is the same. The difference is in the curriculum that the entity studies in order to learn the lessons.

[unity100]

We are not told that entities were not harvested because they lacked polarization. before veil, there was a long 3d, and similarly long 4d. there was indifference.

the test to determine if an entity has learned the lessons, is not the same. we are told that it is not the same.

[βαθμιαίος]

We are not told that entities were not harvested because they lacked polarization.

That's incorrect. "82.21 There was little enough tendency for experience to polarize entities that entities repeated habitually the third-density cycles many times over."

the test to determine if an entity has learned the lessons, is not the same. we are told that it is not the same.

We are not told that the test is not the same. The same test is described in two different ways.

[ricdaw]

the test to determine if an entity has learned the lessons, is not the same. we are told that it is not the same.

We are not told that the test is not the same. The same test is described in two different ways.

How true should we be to the text? Do we give Ra the same leeway that we give each other when we describe something? Where we use different words to describe the same thing at different times? Or do we assume that 6th density Ra knew exactly what he was saying, and that when he used different words, the differences were purposeful?

It kinda matters here.

The Stairways of Light (82.29) metaphor does very much seem to be the same as the Line of Light (6.14) metaphor.

However, the context of the former is in response to a direct question about whether the pre-veil harvest was the same as the current post-veil harvest. Rather than saying “Harvest is the same” Ra actually said, “The query is not answered easily.” This suggests caution about concluding that the two harvests have the same mechanism.

The absolute test is: “The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator.” (82.29)

But the mechanism to grade souls pre-veil is more than just about “stairs” vs. “a line.” And more than just “quality” of light vs “intensity” of light.

Ra, in the context of pre-veil harvest said this:

Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross.

There is a act of “faith or will” involved in pre-veil harvest that is not mentioned in any post-veil harvest description. That suggests that an entity on the steps between 3rd and 4th density (pre-veil) could cross the resisting threshold by an act of “faith or will” during the test. There is a requirement to “seek past the boundary of third density.”

The post-veil descriptions describe walking the line until the intensity gets too great. If an entity stops right at the edge of 3rd, there is no suggestion that a post-veil soul could still manage to cross over into 4th by “will or faith.” There is no suggestion (post-veil) that “seeking” is required at all. Souls that have 4th dimensional characteristics go to 4th unless they actively choose to stay in 3rd. In other words, nowadays (post-veil) wanting, seeking, willing or faithing (sorry, had to say that to make it parallel) does not apply, but Ra suggests they were important pre-veil.

You’ll need to use your own discernment here.

Ra might have used different words intending to describe different harvest mechanisms. I’ve described some of the context above that suggests just that concept.

Ra might have used different words to describe the same harvest mechanism, with the new words clarifying and expanding upon the earlier description, but without intending to describe a new and different harvest mechanism.

For those of you who think that the pre and post veil harvest mechanisms are the same, what do you make of the “faith/will” language? What do you do with “in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary” language? (Post veil the 10%/51% has no seeking requirement in it whatsoever.) Do you think there is a difference between the words “quality” and “intensity”? Why did Ra use different words?

I personally am of two minds about the different descriptions of the harvest mechanisms. It doesn’t seem to make sense that the harvest mechanism would be different pre-veil vs post veil. And yet, Ra did use different words.

Which is more perilous? To paraphrase Ra, or to be strictly literal?

[βαθμιαίος]

Seeking is very much part of our current harvest. For instance, "14.14 There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex."

---

Also, Ra did use the word intensity in the general description of harvest that preceded the paragraph about pre-veil harvest. That general description clearly applies to all third-density harvests. I don't know, but they may have used the word "quality" for no other reason than that they had just used "intensity" in the previous paragraph and were searching for a synonym.

All throughout session 82 Ra explained to Don again and again that pre-veil third-density lessons are not different than post-veil third-density lessons. They both need to polarize. Think about what polarizing means. What is it but moving more and more into the light?

Also, Ra says several times that the requirements for harvest are set. They are not set by the sub-Logos but rather by the Logos. The sub-Logos designs the course of study for the third-density entities, but it cannot change the examination.

Ra also does use the concept of resistance at the boundary in reference to our current harvest. I posted the link earlier.

Please forgive me for the terseness of this post. I have only a couple of minutes to write it before my next meeting.

[carrie]

For those of interest:

the boundary between 3rd and 4th is like moving between chilly weather where you cannot feel the warmth of the Infinite creator to being in intense sunlight (four or five times hotter than the hottest day in Summer) and the loving warmth of maybe, ten thousand hugs.

I only thank those (there) I could come back instead of repeating.

[unity100]

It kinda matters here.

The Stairways of Light (82.29) metaphor does very much seem to be the same as the Line of Light (6.14) metaphor.

However, the context of the former is in response to a direct question about whether the pre-veil harvest was the same as the current post-veil harvest. Rather than saying “Harvest is the same” Ra actually said, “The query is not answered easily.” This suggests caution about concluding that the two harvests have the same mechanism.

The absolute test is: “The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator.” (82.29)

But the mechanism to grade souls pre-veil is more than just about “stairs” vs. “a line.” And more than just “quality” of light vs “intensity” of light.

well said and well put. indeed, ra doesnt just say 'harvest is the same'. if it has been the same, ra could say the same. if it had only minor differences, ra could say there are only minor differences.

instead, they gave a detailed, intricate explanation of mechanics with actual differences in it.

There is a act of “faith or will” involved in pre-veil harvest that is not mentioned in any post-veil harvest description. That suggests that an entity on the steps between 3rd and 4th density (pre-veil) could cross the resisting threshold by an act of “faith or will” during the test. There is a requirement to “seek past the boundary of third density.”

The post-veil descriptions describe walking the line until the intensity gets too great. If an entity stops right at the edge of 3rd, there is no suggestion that a post-veil soul could still manage to cross over into 4th by “will or faith.” There is no suggestion (post-veil) that “seeking” is required at all. Souls that have 4th dimensional characteristics go to 4th unless they actively choose to stay in 3rd. In other words, nowadays (post-veil) wanting, seeking, willing or faithing (sorry, had to say that to make it parallel) does not apply, but Ra suggests they were important pre-veil.

important observation. i missed these. these have important implications.

according to these important details, there had to be a conscious, or subconscious intent, a desire and the will to accompany it, to graduate to 4d from 3d PREveil. that means, the resistance could be passed by that will.

in postveil, conscious seeking, as we know from endless descriptions and cases, do not apply. even so that, it doesnt matter what an entity is doing, as long as the entity is polarized positive or negative enough. this polarization is deemed (and it is) the potential to do work (positive or negative). the entity just walks the line, and stops when the light is too strong.

I personally am of two minds about the different descriptions of the harvest mechanisms. It doesn’t seem to make sense that the harvest mechanism would be different pre-veil vs post veil. And yet, Ra did use different words.

it doesnt make sense ? thats even not worthy of debate :

preveil and postveil galaxy is QUITE different. in one, there is 1, 2, 3, 4, with 3 and 4 being rather long, and then a quite speedy route to 8th, suggesting that the activity in the 5,6,7th densities take too little time compared to now. this is normal, because, if we remember what Ra told about the time spent in a density, or the imbalance of a density's overemphasis, they had to spend more time in 5th, to balance the extreme compassion they gained in 4th. moreover, in regard to preveil and postveil experiences, and now very short (75,000 year) 3d, we are told that the RATIOS always remain the same. so, if 3rd d is too short, the subsequent densities will take their due time. comparably, if 3d is too long, densities following it will take less time. of course, the length/ratios of the following densities will also matter.

this easily leads us to the fact that, because there were too long 3d and 4d preveil, there were fast 5,6,7 densities preveil. actually, we dont need to be led to it, we are told as such, directly.

in postveil world, there is a VERY short 3d. so much that, it doesnt even constitute a normal incarnation duration of a 4d entity ? its very short, and it is described as 'making the choice in the blink of an eye' in book 4 studies. so, it IS short. it is no metaphor.

moreover, we have two polarities instead of one compared to preveil. one is quite separated, and acting differently, functioning differently from the other.

these are no minor differences. these are major differences.

it is only normal for the harvest methods for the VERY density, causing these major changes to be different. it is 3rd density.

actually i dont even know why we are discussing this. ra, describes the two harvest methods, DIFFERENT.

strength/intensity cannot be same with quality. such grand synonymization in between words ..... beyond reasoning.

then lets just synonymize positive and negative too. what difference does it make. in the end, dont they both serve intelligent infinity ....

Seeking is very much part of our current harvest. For instance, "14.14 There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex."

---

you are missing the meaning there.

that is an answer to a question about a machine that someone is building somewhere, that was supposed to give longer life to entities. in turn, ra says that, there is NOT at this time ANY reason to include efforts toward longevity, and instead efforts should be spent to invoke conscious seeking. that is because little time left. as it unfolds in the preceding and following parts of that subject in q/as.

since there is little time, those entities who havent created a natural, developing polarity up till this date, can speed up and catch the required level with conscious seeking.

it doesnt say that seeking is part of harvest requirement today. not in that part, not before, not after.

We are not told that the test is not the same. The same test is described in two different ways.

that is your interpretation. and it is a quite far flung one. steps of light with quality of light imbued at each step, a straight line with increasing strength of light as you go towards a light source.

the only thing you are using to justify them being the same, is confederation entities standing by the line's sides to hold those who fall down.

you are even equating words strength and quality.

Also, Ra did use the word intensity in the general description of harvest that preceded the paragraph about pre-veil harvest. That general description clearly applies to all third-density harvests. I don't know, but they may have used the word "quality" for no other reason than that they had just used "intensity" in the previous paragraph and were searching for a synonym.

violet ray balance of an entity, will be important in all harvests, leave aside preveil, leave aside 3d. for 4, 5, 6d harvests, actually any act in this universe, will be relevant to violet ray.

its as if you are assuming that itll be either this, or that. no, whether you give polarization, strength of light as a requirement, or, quality of light as a requirement, the entity will have to meet a minimum balance of violet ray in order to graduate from density to density, depending on the density being graduated.

the EMPHASIS is important.

now, 3d harvest hinges on polarity. you may not know anything, you may be totally oblivious to life, but, if you are polarized enough and have a minimum balance of violet for that density, you graduate.

strength and quality, never become synonymous, regardless of whatever context you put them into. only, strength can be a variable IN the quality, if you push it too hard.

All throughout session 82 Ra explained to Don again and again that pre-veil third-density lessons are not different than post-veil third-density lessons. They both need to polarize. Think about what polarizing means. What is it but moving more and more into the light?

apparently it isnt, since Ra is continuing their seeking without polarity, as they inform us. and they are in late 6d.

Also, Ra says several times that the requirements for harvest are set. They are not set by the sub-Logos but rather by the Logos. The sub-Logos designs the course of study for the third-density entities, but it cannot change the examination.

that has no relevance. the mechanisms and blueprints of anything that can happen in this octave, was set by infinite intelligence before.

yet, veil was not known and employed before. however, it is now discovered, and employed.

in short, there are things that can be discovered, and they can change things.

however, relevantly, the mechanism of harvest to be used for 3d planets employing the veil was also set before, by infinite intelligence. it was there, but was not discovered and employed by the central sun (and its nodes) in this universe.

............................

it seems more to me that, this insistence, to the extent of equating words 'strength' and 'quality' is due to an underlying desire to get harvested on this planet, nomatter what, ON polarity.

i cant even begin to understand this.

[Monica]

How true should we be to the text? Do we give Ra the same leeway that we give each other when we describe something? Where we use different words to describe the same thing at different times? Or do we assume that 6th density Ra knew exactly what he was saying, and that when he used different words, the differences were purposeful?

It kinda matters here.

The Stairways of Light (82.29) metaphor does very much seem to be the same as the Line of Light (6.14) metaphor.

However, the context of the former is in response to a direct question about whether the pre-veil harvest was the same as the current post-veil harvest. Rather than saying “Harvest is the same” Ra actually said, “The query is not answered easily.” This suggests caution about concluding that the two harvests have the same mechanism.

The absolute test is: “The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator.” (82.29)

But the mechanism to grade souls pre-veil is more than just about “stairs” vs. “a line.” And more than just “quality” of light vs “intensity” of light.

Ra, in the context of pre-veil harvest said this:

Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross.

There is a act of “faith or will” involved in pre-veil harvest that is not mentioned in any post-veil harvest description. That suggests that an entity on the steps between 3rd and 4th density (pre-veil) could cross the resisting threshold by an act of “faith or will” during the test. There is a requirement to “seek past the boundary of third density.”

The post-veil descriptions describe walking the line until the intensity gets too great. If an entity stops right at the edge of 3rd, there is no suggestion that a post-veil soul could still manage to cross over into 4th by “will or faith.” There is no suggestion (post-veil) that “seeking” is required at all. Souls that have 4th dimensional characteristics go to 4th unless they actively choose to stay in 3rd. In other words, nowadays (post-veil) wanting, seeking, willing or faithing (sorry, had to say that to make it parallel) does not apply, but Ra suggests they were important pre-veil.

You’ll need to use your own discernment here.

Ra might have used different words intending to describe different harvest mechanisms. I’ve described some of the context above that suggests just that concept.

Ra might have used different words to describe the same harvest mechanism, with the new words clarifying and expanding upon the earlier description, but without intending to describe a new and different harvest mechanism.

For those of you who think that the pre and post veil harvest mechanisms are the same, what do you make of the “faith/will” language? What do you do with “in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary” language? (Post veil the 10%/51% has no seeking requirement in it whatsoever.) Do you think there is a difference between the words “quality” and “intensity”? Why did Ra use different words?

I personally am of two minds about the different descriptions of the harvest mechanisms. It doesn’t seem to make sense that the harvest mechanism would be different pre-veil vs post veil. And yet, Ra did use different words.

Which is more perilous? To paraphrase Ra, or to be strictly literal?

Ricdaw, what an excellent analysis! You have clearly defined the issues being discussed and the crux of the debate.

I had never caught some of these fine nuances of meaning before. I had assumed that such seemingly minor differences in terminology didn't matter. I didn't even think about whether they mattered or not.

With Ra being so meticulous about terminology, to the point of the text itself being so verbose that many people find it difficult to read, I highly doubt that Ra would have used synonyms. Ra chose words so very carefully. We know this. Thus, it seems obvious to me that the words were chosen for very specific reasons. It would have been out of character for Ra to do otherwise.

[unity100]

With Ra being so meticulous about terminology, to the point of the text itself being so verbose that many people find it difficult to read, I highly doubt that Ra would have used synonyms. Ra chose words so very carefully. We know this. Thus, it seems obvious to me that the words were chosen for very specific reasons. It would have been out of character for Ra to do otherwise.

that ...

[βαθμιαίος]

Here is the actual quote that has caused so much debate:

Questioner: You have stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize more than 50% service-to-others to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

Almost all of that answer applies to harvest pre- and post-veil. Don is trying to understand how polarization was measured before the veil, given that it now can be measured by the percentages of service. Ra explains how polarization was measured in a different way.

All of these statements in that answer, in my opinion, apply to harvest both now and then:

• The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator.
  
• There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density.
  
• The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density.
  
• Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross.
  

All those statements are in the present tense. They are all, as I understand it, still relevant to post-veil third-density harvest.

Third-density harvest is a measurement of an entity's polarization. That's the same now as it was then. To get caught up in lines vs. stairs and intensity vs quality is missing the forest for the trees.

[unity100]

'missing forest for the trees' would be what i'd call taking words strength and quality synonymous ...

[βαθμιαίος]

You mean intensity? I didn't use the word strength.

[unity100]

strength of light passes in description of postveil harvest in q/a. steps of light passes in preveil description. you have said that they both rephrase the same thing, in your earlier posts.

[carrie]

unity100,
what's the difference?

The irony is that we're here into a serious discussion about whether or not it is post-veil or pre-veil, but nobody ever bother to check what other people (other than me) who had NDE (Near Death Experiences) had to say about it.

The more serious question to ask is:
- are you actually gathering enough polarity that you can actually graduate?
- are you sharing the love and light of the infinite creator with everyone else?
- are we living the Law of One in our lives?
- Law of One is not religion with dogma or doctrines of faith.
- What are we doing to change other people's lives and make ourselves better?

Of course, we can spend another 75,000 years discussing about this on another Earth-like planet. I just hope they have the equivalent of the Internet and PCs there.