Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

[Confused]

Sure, and you (and others) have my permission to continue to use me, as you have been doing, to help understand yourself better.

I always knew you were a martyr deep down inside, zenmaster. I was not wrong

---

The layout of four sacred sites around the center of the city closely correspond to the configuration of the four central stars in Cygnus. However, they are also similar to the Southern Cross. [See attachments 1 and 2]

The next pic [attachment 3] is a view of the sky from Q'oricancha on 28 Oct 11 (the Calleman end date) at 11:11pm. The circular halo represents the horizon, featuring Cygnus, Sirius, and the Galactic Center.

The last one [attachment 4] is a view of the sky from Q'oricancha on 21 Dec 12 (the Arguelles end date) at 11:11pm. In this configuration, the Southern Cross and Cassiopaea appear on the horizon. Orion is directly overhead.

Do they have any significance? Do they mean anything in terms of Harvest and that date of October 28, which is so close by the way.

[Raman]

With all due respect, this is as BS of an interpretation as anything else. The beginning of something discrete can be instantaneous, while the effects gradual.

"this is correct' 'this is incorrect'. Some interpretations are correct some are not. Is not like 'anything else'...

You ask for honesty and then you get upset when people are honest expressing their feelings opinions if do not agree with your point of view?

Reminds me of the temper tantrum you had about Calleman's views. Although maybe you were just being honest expressing your views. But no need to <demand> 'honesty' which I find kind of interesting.

errr...End of story!

The 'temper-tantrum idea' and idea of being 'upset' is allowed through your dishonesty, as these are your projections. Any agreement or disagreement with my point of view, or my expression of satisfaction is irrelevant unless you really need some kind of confirmation of your own biases. Those that are honestly expressing their feelings and opinions are of course the 'victims' in your drama. Gotta love it.

And to think that for a brief moment I thought you were going to click the 'LIKE' button...

[zenmaster]

begins to cease (BEGINS to cease, instead of CEASES being) being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

If they want something to happen a certain way, who is to deny them this fantasy?

[Tenet Nosce]

Do they have any significance? Do they mean anything in terms of Harvest and that date of October 28, which is so close by the way.

Well, I don't really know if it is significant or not. It seems an unlikely coincidence. I kind of stumbled across the idea when Google Earth came out and I was trying out the image overlay feature. When I had visited Cuzco, I noted that these four sites (they are all Catholic churches now) were situated in a cross... but was thinking that the lines were at right angles to each other originally like a Christian cross. Only later did I realize it looks more like the asterism of the Southern Cross. And only later still did I realize that it also bears similarity to the asterism of the Northern Cross.

First thing that struck me numerologically speaking is that the latitude of Q'oricancha (this was the main Inca temple in Cuzco) is exactly 13 degrees 31 minutes 13 seconds. So 13 31 13.

Then I was playing around with the Stellarium software, and I wondered what the sky would look like on 12/21/12 as that was the Mayan calendar end date I was familiar with. I had heard about Calleman's date at that period, but didn't know anything more about it.

Just for fun I plugged in 11:11:11 as the time and, much to my surprise the Southern Cross is rising at just that exact moment. So we have 11:11:11 on 12/21/12 at 13 31 13. It just seemed too bizarre to be mere coincidence.

Then it was just a few weeks ago I came across an article talking about how the pyramids at Giza are not actually aligned to Orion's belt, but instead to Cygnus. (The Northern Cross makes up part of Cygnus) I immediately recognized a similar pattern, so I overlaid the map and it matched.

But then when I looked at the sky chart in the Stellarium software, there wasn't anything noticeable regarding Cygnus. Then Calleman's date popped into my mind. I plugged it in, and behold Cygnus is rising at just that moment on 28 October 2011.

So, what does it mean? All I can say is that if it means anything at all, it is meant to be an indicator that somebody was taking great efforts to draw our attention to this particular time period. It just so happens that the Ra material refers to contact being made in both Egypt and South America where structures have been built that refer to these precise moments in time.

It is possible that whomever built these structures also had precognition that there would eventually be two "End Dates" as the time arrived. Perhaps both are significant after all. Maybe the two dates are flagging the beginning and end of the Harvest period.

Maybe it is all mumbo-jumbo and I am just seeing something because I "want" to see it there. But the thing is, I wasn't particularly wanting to see it there. Rather it was something I stumbled into. And it really has no practical purpose, other than to offer some kind of evidence which corroborates what Ra communicated regarding the time period that we are now moving into.

[Confused]

Then it was just a few weeks ago I came across an article talking about how the pyramids at Giza are not actually aligned to Orion's belt, but instead to Cygnus. (The Northern Cross makes up part of Cygnus) I immediately recognized a similar pattern, so I overlaid the map and it matched.

Tenet Nosce, please accept my thanks for posting in such a detailed manner. Great research on your part. With respect to Cygnus, I think there is evidence for that from the Ra material, in connection with the block of quote from your post (quoted above). From LOO 2.6:

The instrument at this time should be in trance. The proper alignment is the head pointed twenty degrees north-by-northeast. This is the direction from which the newer or New Age distortions of love/light, which are less distorted, are emanating, and this instrument will find comfort therein. This is a sensitive instrument, by which we mean the distortions which enter her mind/body/spirit complex come from any of her senses.

Does not Cygnus lie in that direction with respect to earth, i.e., north-by-northeast? I should also say that it is a brilliant original hypothesis on your part to indicate that October 28, 2011, could be the start of the Harvest season, with 2012 December being the close of the window. Whether true of not is another story. It is brilliant original and scientific thinking. Thanks.

[Bring4th_Austin]

begins to cease (BEGINS to cease, instead of CEASES being) being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

If they want something to happen a certain way, who is to deny them this fantasy?

Despite the heat the debate seems to have garnered, I am still outrageously curious about harvest. Even though I know I won't find a clear answer, I enjoy finely combing through the material scouring for little clues. I'll present what I've managed to perceive, and others can use it how they wish, or not at all. I certainly hope that no one here would let me deny them their chosen fantasy.

[Tenet Nosce]

All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease (BEGINS to cease, instead of CEASES being) being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

Ceasing is an act which takes place in a moment. It is a discontinuity. You don't begin to cease enslaving others, gradually liberating them over many generations. You cease to enslave them. All at once, in the same moment. If the 3D sphere is no longer useful to anybody, why would they continue to be incarnated here afterwards? Why would any soul want to be born into such a world?

But I do think this quote is good, and even better when placed back into the original context:

6.14 Questioner: I think that it would be appropriate to discover how the Law of One acts in this transfer of beings to our planet and the action of harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

This quote tells us exactly about the process of harvest. Those present at the end of the cycle will be separated by their own choice. This is what Ra says, not what I made up about what Ra says because it is my chosen fantasy.

6.15 Questioner: What is the length, in our years, of one of these cycles?

Ra: One major cycle is approximately 25,000 of your years. There are three cycles of this nature during which those who have progressed may be harvested at the end of three major cycles. That is, approximately between 75 and 76,000 of your years. All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

It would appear to me that Ra was referring to the precession cycle which is approximately 25,765. Though the exact length is unknown, the cycle does end and all are harvested. Saying there is a thousand year "winding down" phase only delays the fact that it will end. One minute it is there, the next minute it is not. It ends. That's what Ra is saying here.

6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

In 1981, this sphere was already in fourth-dimension vibration. So how can the sphere begin to transition to 4D in 2011/2012 when it was already in 4D in 1981?

6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately 30, thirty, of your years.

And then it will stop, due to harvest.

6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Of course it is so, because they had just asked if the earth was already a 4D planet two queries ago. So yes, it will still be 4D after this period of thirty years, which brings us to 2011. Not thirty-ish years, or maybe a thousand, who really knows?

6.19 Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless.

6.20 Questioner: Does the fact that we are in this transition period now have anything to do with the reason that you have made your information available to the population?

Ra: I am Ra. We have walked among your people. We remember. We remember sorrow. We have seen much. We have searched for an instrument of the proper parameters of distortion in mind/body/spirit complex and supporting and understanding group of mind/body/spirit complexes to accept this information with minimal distortion and maximal desire to serve for some of your years. The answer, in short, is yes. However, we wished you to know that in our memory we thank you.

In our memory we thank you. Now that's an odd way of putting it.

---

How about these ones?

11.12 Questioner: Where are these three entities now?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are in the dimension known to you as fourth. Therefore the space/time continua are not compatible. An approximation of the space/time locus of each would net no actual understanding. Each chose a fourth-density planet which was dedicated to the pursuit of the understanding of the Law of One through service to self, one in what you know as the Orion group, one in what you know as Cassiopeia, one in what you know as Southern Cross; however, these loci are not satisfactory. We do not have vocabulary for the geometric calculations necessary for transfer of this understanding to you.

Cassiopeia, Orion, and the Southern Cross! Heh.. I knew there was something in LOO about the Southern Cross, but I didn't know it also Ra mentioned Cassiopeia in the same sentence.

62.16 Questioner: Are there other groups of those who are on the service-to-self path joined with those of the Orion constellation, for instance those of Southern Cross, presently working for the same type of harvest with respect to Earth?

Ra: I am Ra. These you mention of Southern Cross are members of the Orion group. It is not, shall we say, according to understood wording that a group from various galaxies should be named by one. However, those planetary social memory complexes of the so-called Orion constellation have the upper hand and thus rule the other members. You must recall that in negative thinking there is always the pecking order, shall we say, and the power against power in separation.

Scientists just discovered oxygen in Orion... how timely!

---

Does not Cygnus lie in that direction with respect to earth, i.e., north-by-northeast?

Turns out Cygnus in on the horizon right at this very moment! But it looks like it is north-by-northwest. It probably varies by place and time of year..? Although another strange coincidence, I have a table and chairs on my deck that are at an angle. Well, actually it would be more accurate to say that the table and chairs face north, but my house is at an angle. Anyhow I was sitting in one of the chairs facing north and I looked up into the sky through a rectangular patch framed by two trees. Suddenly I wondered what stars were there. It was daylight, but I used Google Sky Maps on my phone to see what was there, and it was Cygnus!

[Bring4th_Austin]

All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease (BEGINS to cease, instead of CEASES being) being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

Ceasing is an act which takes place in a moment. It is a discontinuity. You don't begin to cease enslaving others. You cease to enslave them. All at once, in the same moment. If the 3D sphere is no longer useful to anybody, why would they continue to be incarnated here afterwards? Why would any soul want to be born into such a world?

Now it's certainly possible for "ceasing" to be a discontinuity, but that's not universal. Something can gradually phase out...when it starts phasing out, it "begins to cease," and when it's done phasing out, it has ceased. You can apply this example to countless things. The 3D vibes "began to cease" years ago, yet they haven't completely ceased yet. It could mean either, yet when the phrase "begins to cease" is used, I'd bet that it means that it only begins to cease, and doesn't completely cease until later. There's no telling whether this statement was about the actual mechanism of harvest or the transition from 3D to 4D anyways.

I would imagine that 3D work is basically done here as it is, and 3D entities are no longer incarnating. Dual bodied entities are 4D entities incarnating into a "less dense body." So I agree, I doubt any 3D entity would want to incarnate here after 3D vibes cease to stream, but I don't think the 3D plane will simply disappear, and thought-forms will hold it together until purged.

This quote tells us exactly about the process of harvest. Those present at the end of the cycle will be separated by their own choice. This is what Ra says, not what I made up about what Ra says.

Possibly within incarnation, possibly after their incarnation has ended either because of some harvest mechanism or through natural death.

6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

In 1981, this sphere was already in fourth-dimension vibration. So how can the sphere begin to transition to 4D in 2011/2012 when it was already in 4D in 1981?

I don't think that's very clear...it's possible that simply 3D vibes will completely cease to instream at that point, but that doesn't mean that they'll be gone from space/time. We know that it's going to be a gradual shift to the 4D sphere and to 4D bodies, that is one thing Ra was rather clear about:

63.27 Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

It makes sense to me that as 3D vibes cease to steam from the Logos, "new" 3D thoughts may not be possible, but existing 3D thought-forms will linger until we as a society have rid ourselves of them and replaced them with new 4D thoughts.

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately 30, thirty, of your years.

And then it will stop, due to harvest.

Here's some tricky wording which definitely offers some room for interpretation. Ra says "continue unabated." Unabated means without reduction in intensity. So it's very possible Ra was saying that the intensity of the inconveniences will continue for 30 years then gradually slow down, or possibly stop completely. "Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

[unity100]

In 1981, this sphere was already in fourth-dimension vibration. So how can the sphere begin to transition to 4D in 2011/2012 when it was already in 4D in 1981?

nice find. indeed.

And then it will stop, due to harvest.

or, it will stop due to the planet aligning itself to 4d instreamings, despite the society on it had not.

All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease (BEGINS to cease, instead of CEASES being) being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

Ceasing is an act which takes place in a moment. It is a discontinuity. You don't begin to cease enslaving others. You cease to enslave them. All at once, in the same moment. If the 3D sphere is no longer useful to anybody, why would they continue to be incarnated here afterwards? Why would any soul want to be born into such a world?

Now it's certainly possible for "ceasing" to be a discontinuity, but that's not universal. Something can gradually phase out...when it starts phasing out, it "begins to cease," and when it's done phasing out, it has ceased. You can apply this example to countless things. The 3D vibes "began to cease" years ago, yet they haven't completely ceased yet. It could mean either, yet when the phrase "begins to cease" is used, I'd bet that it means that it only begins to cease, and doesn't completely cease until later. There's no telling whether this statement was about the actual mechanism of harvest or the transition from 3D to 4D anyways.

the ceasing here is meant for the planet ceasing to be useful for lower levels of vibrations of 3d. it is the continual frequency increase effect we talked about earlier, like in venus, etc - ie, planet becoming a 4d planet, then a 4d/5d, then a 5d, then 5d/6d etc. just like that, apparently there is a moment where a planet becomes a 3d/4d planet - so, this would mean that the planet would go up in vibration spectrum, and would not be usable for lower levels of vibration within 3d, spectrum being shifted. eventually it would totally become a 4d planet which would not provide any usability for 3d, with that rate.

I don't think that's very clear...it's possible that simply 3D vibes will completely cease to instream at that point, but that doesn't mean that they'll be gone from space/time. We know that it's going to be a gradual shift to the 4D sphere and to 4D bodies, that is one thing Ra was rather clear about:

3-4d entities do not need gradual. their bodies are capable of withstanding 4d.

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

there is no obligation of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact, as the entities harvested prior to the cycle prove. tho majority of these have harvested themselves in negative fashion, since during a time in which sufficient energies are not available, these entities could only amass the energy needed for contact by being negative. however, these entities have not only contacted infinite intelligence in negative way, but they are also incarnate. (some of them were told to be still incarnated in 1981). this means, the did not die for infinite intelligence contact to happen.

now this is harvest time, and energies are available. this time positives will be able to contact intelligent infinity too. and they would not have to die for that to happen, just like how negatives have not.

"Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

im at a loss to understand how this 'harvest is gradual' thing still going on, after all the quotes have been given. it seems definitely necessary for people to understand that harvest, and entry into a certain vibrations by the planet, are different things.

[zenmaster]

Harvest is a time/space phenomenon, meaning we die first. This makes sense as any particular genetic distortions we've chosen as catalyst for learning, or any particular earth-bound circumstances, would not affect awareness. No need to create things like higher-self of a planet making decisions. No need to 'ascend' (a la DW). Lacking a global event, like magnetosphere fading, this is a gradual process and one which could take quite a while. During this time, society (as a whole) may start noticing a 'new breed' as 4D abilities are discovered and exercised. Eventually, all are 'harvested'.


The concept of the injustice of remaining in a '3D prison' any longer than necessary, is just another 3D projection.

---

im at a loss to understand how this 'harvest is gradual' thing still going on, after all the quotes have been given. it seems definitely necessary for people to understand that harvest, and entry into a certain vibrations by the planet, are different things.

But we do understand they are different things. This time they are coincident because there will be lack of yellow-ray support. Once we pass on to time/space we assess further incarnational needs. If you have lower-vibrational work then you go to another locus.

[unity100]

Harvest is a time/space phenomenon, meaning we die first. This makes sense as any particular genetic distortions we've chosen as catalyst for learning, or any particular earth-bound circumstances, would not affect awareness. No need to create things like higher-self of a planet making decisions. No need to 'ascend' (a la DW). Lacking a global event, like magnetosphere fading, this is a gradual process and one which could take quite a while. During this time, society (as a whole) may start noticing a 'new breed' as 4D abilities are discovered and exercised. Eventually, all are 'harvested'.

you are incorrect. as i explained earlier :

there is no obligation of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact, as the entities harvested prior to the cycle prove. tho majority of these have harvested themselves in negative fashion, since during a time in which sufficient energies are not available, these entities could only amass the energy needed for contact by being negative. however, these entities have not only contacted infinite intelligence in negative way, but they are also incarnate. (some of them were told to be still incarnated in 1981). this means, the did not die for infinite intelligence contact to happen.

now this is harvest time, and energies are available. this time positives will be able to contact intelligent infinity too. and they would not have to die for that to happen, just like how negatives have not.

moreover, harvest is not something that lasts for a whopass 500 years. if it was, there would be no need to do all this rush PRIOR to harvest happening. or, say that lengthening lifespans of entities did not matter anymore circa 1981. even Ra material is 30 years old. if you say it took 30 years in preparation before that, 15 Ra material work could be squeezed into a whopping period of 500 years.

500 years of infinite intelligence availability is no joke.

The concept of the injustice of remaining in a '3D prison' any longer than necessary, is just another 3D projection.

noone harvested has to stay in a 3d prison. as said, they can leave at any given moment by using infinite intelligence.

though.

as it was said 'the pull on individuals is constant' about a negative planet, it is likely that due to this society's rather negative tendencies, there is also some measure of pull on entities, including harvested ones. therefore, it may be less easy for an entity to want and leave this planet through infinite intelligence. ie, reducing their desire to leave, through any kind of effect you can name.

But we do understand they are different things. This time they are coincident because there will be lack of yellow-ray support. Once we pass on to time/space we assess further incarnational needs. If you have lower-vibrational work then you go to another locus.

yellow ray support going low is something that would happen gradually, as the vibratory rate of the planet proceeds. this also could mean that the planet will be going out of support for a measure of 2d, soon. like it happened in venus.

again, a good amount of the entities which contacted infinite intelligence in this last 50 years, have not died.

[zenmaster]

you are incorrect. as i explained earlier :

there is no obligation of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact, as the entities harvested prior to the cycle prove. tho majority of these have harvested themselves in negative fashion, since during a time in which sufficient energies are not available, these entities could only amass the energy needed for contact by being negative. however, these entities have not only contacted infinite intelligence in negative way, but they are also incarnate. (some of them were told to be still incarnated in 1981). this means, the did not die for infinite intelligence contact to happen.

now this is harvest time, and energies are available. this time positives will be able to contact intelligent infinity too. and they would not have to die for that to happen,

I'm incorrect because there is no necessity of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact? You do realize that intelligent infinity is contacted for various reasons? For example, healing. So of course there is no obligation to be disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact?

just like how negatives have not.

They contacted intelligent infinity, due to polarization, then died. And?

[Tenet Nosce]

Now it's certainly possible for "ceasing" to be a discontinuity, but that's not universal. Something can gradually phase out...when it starts phasing out, it "begins to cease," and when it's done phasing out, it has ceased. You can apply this example to countless things. The 3D vibes "began to cease" years ago, yet they haven't completely ceased yet. It could mean either, yet when the phrase "begins to cease" is used, I'd bet that it means that it only begins to cease, and doesn't completely cease until later.

That is all well and good, but EVEN IF it were true, all it does is put off the event until later, when the "3D vibes" completely cease. There is still a final moment, now it is just punted into the future. When the final moment arrived, we would be in the exact same position we find ourselves now with respect to a final parting of ways.

And so, there has to be some mechanism by with this separation is achieved. Some say the only possible mechanism is normal physical death. Well, OK, that's fine I guess. I'm not sure why it is so upsetting to consider other possibilities, but IF IN FACT it is true, then the only viable conclusion is that, at the end of the supposed "phase" or winding down, everybody who is left must perish in a global cataclysm.

Population Earth: 7 billion... 6 billion... 2 billion... 1 billion... 100 million... 1 million... 1 hundred thousand... 1 thousand... 1 hundred, ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one........ ZERO.

The gradualist argument doesn't circumvent the fact that 3D earth will cease to exist at some point. All it does it add a somewhat absurd end phase where babies mysteriously stop being born, and the population "naturally" dwindles down to the last ten survivors frantically running around the planet looking for food.

I would imagine that 3D work is basically done here as it is, and 3D entities are no longer incarnating. Dual bodied entities are 4D entities incarnating into a "less dense body." So I agree, I doubt any 3D entity would want to incarnate here after 3D vibes cease to stream, but I don't think the 3D plane will simply disappear, and thought-forms will hold it together until purged.

Until purged? What is this purging of which you speak?

I don't think that's very clear...

I don't know how it could be stated any clearer. I think you are making apples out of bananas here.

it's possible that simply 3D vibes will completely cease to instream at that point, but that doesn't mean that they'll be gone from space/time. We know that it's going to be a gradual shift to the 4D sphere and to 4D bodies, that is one thing Ra was rather clear about

Nothing about this quote changes the fact that there will be a moment when the 3D sphere "completely" ceases to exist.

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

Certainly, there are several unknowns. However it is known that the contact with intelligent infinity CAN be made within incarnation, as Ra stated that those who contact intelligent infinity can be harvested at will at any time during the cycle.

Here's some tricky wording which definitely offers some room for interpretation. Ra says "continue unabated." Unabated means without reduction in intensity. So it's very possible Ra was saying that the intensity of the inconveniences will continue for 30 years then gradually slow down, or possibly stop completely. "Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

We shall see. However, I still don't see a reason for things to continue going on for very long post-harvest. This is a planetary-wide event. Human beings are like microbes living in the membranous film on the surface of the planet. When it goes, we go.

A gradualist view is very human-centric. We think that the universe somehow cares that little Timmy will never get the chance to grow up and become a baseball star, or that Jane won't ever get to have her fairy-tale princess wedding, or that Gandalf the cat didn't quite make it to the next level. So because we can't imagine that there is more to life outside of our own little dramas, we would rather lie to ourselves and believe that the whole entire universe is going to wait for every last person to get their act together.

Harvest is a gift. To view it as an act of heartless cruelty on the part of the universe because we will be separated from our loved ones says a lot about where somebody's head it at. It kind of flies in the face of everything Ra is talking about in the Law of One.

We are All One. But the time has come for a parting of the ways. This is a good thing, and normal, though fetched with some minor inconveniences. All is well. When it is all said and done, everybody will be in an environment which is much more conducive to growth based upon where they are at in the process.

Right now we have a mixed class where the gifted kids, the mentally challenged kids, and the normal kids are all thrown in together. The end result is nobody learns much of anything, but simply gets more and more frustrated with each other as time goes on. It is a sad truth that perhaps some good friendships will be lost when the class gets broken up, but it is in the best interest of all to part ways and allow each to learn with others that are at their own level.

Though the school year may be "winding down", and though there might still be a few lessons to be learned, the day will come that will be the last day, and after that day class is over.

[zenmaster]

Certainly, there are several unknowns. However it is known that the contact with intelligent infinity CAN be made within incarnation, as Ra stated that those who contact intelligent infinity can be harvested at will at any time during the cycle.

After death...

---

Population Earth: 7 billion... 6 billion... 2 billion... 1 billion... 100 million... 1 million... 1 hundred thousand... 1 thousand... 1 hundred, ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one........ ZERO.

What about the transitional bodies?

[Bring4th_Austin]

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

there is no obligation of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact, as the entities harvested prior to the cycle prove. tho majority of these have harvested themselves in negative fashion, since during a time in which sufficient energies are not available, these entities could only amass the energy needed for contact by being negative. however, these entities have not only contacted infinite intelligence in negative way, but they are also incarnate. (some of them were told to be still incarnated in 1981). this means, the did not die for infinite intelligence contact to happen.

There's no obligation, sure, but that doesn't mean it will be forced up incarnated entities. It could, or it couldn't.

"Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

im at a loss to understand how this 'harvest is gradual' thing still going on, after all the quotes have been given.

I can't help you very much there. You have the idea already in your head what you think harvest is, but you can't expect people to agree with you when there are other interpretations on the matter. The quotes you've provided, in my eyes, are not conclusive in the least. And like I've said, just because you don't agree with other interpretations doesn't mean they don't exist.

---

Now it's certainly possible for "ceasing" to be a discontinuity, but that's not universal. Something can gradually phase out...when it starts phasing out, it "begins to cease," and when it's done phasing out, it has ceased. You can apply this example to countless things. The 3D vibes "began to cease" years ago, yet they haven't completely ceased yet. It could mean either, yet when the phrase "begins to cease" is used, I'd bet that it means that it only begins to cease, and doesn't completely cease until later.

That is all well and good, but EVEN IF it were true, all it does is put off the event until later, when the "3D vibes" completely cease. There is still a final moment, now it is just punted into the future. When the final moment arrived, we would be in the exact same position we find ourselves now with respect to a final parting of ways.

At the final moment of ceasing, it could be a seamless gradual shift or a major, noticeable shift. The idea that it has to be "punted" into the future is your own.

And so, there has to be some mechanism by with this separation is achieved. Some say the only possible mechanism is normal physical death. Well, OK, that's fine I guess. I'm not sure why it is so upsetting to consider other possibilities, but IF IN FACT it is true, then the only viable conclusion is that, at the end of the supposed "phase" or winding down, everybody who is left must perish in a global cataclysm.

I don't think it's upsetting to consider other possibilities. The idea that one side of this debate is denying the other because it is upsetting to them is presumptuous on both sides. It seems to be a fallback tactic of projecting ideas on the other side to help justify their stance in your mind. It's rather easy for me to imagine a scenario where there is no instant shift or global cataclysm. It's a possible scenario, not the scenario I have concluded harvest will be like: children being born now are dual bodied, all 3D entities alive now die naturally in the next 70-80 years, now or some point in the future all disincarnate entities are offered intelligent infinity to decide whether to be harvested, and those entities which die in the near future will be offered the same thing upon their passing. The dual bodies continue to incarnate, and continue to manifest 4D sphere/bodies/society, and at some point in the next 100-700 years (Ra's own estimation), 3D has been gradually phased out without any instant, noticeable event.

It's not the only possible scenario, but it fits in with Ra's words.

Population Earth: 7 billion... 6 billion... 2 billion... 1 billion... 100 million... 1 million... 1 hundred thousand... 1 thousand... 1 hundred, ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one........ ZERO.

What about 4D Earth, which is already inhabited by the dual bodied individuals (who also inhabit 3D Earth)? Those people have to be around to create 4D bodies.

The gradualist argument doesn't circumvent the fact that 3D earth will cease to exist at some point. All it does it add a somewhat absurd end phase where babies mysteriously stop being born, and the population "naturally" dwindles down to the last ten survivors frantically running around the planet looking for food.

Not at all

I would imagine that 3D work is basically done here as it is, and 3D entities are no longer incarnating. Dual bodied entities are 4D entities incarnating into a "less dense body." So I agree, I doubt any 3D entity would want to incarnate here after 3D vibes cease to stream, but I don't think the 3D plane will simply disappear, and thought-forms will hold it together until purged.

Until purged? What is this purging of which you speak?

Dual bodied individuals transform our 3D ways and thought-forms to better fit a 4D society, eventually society has become a 4D society through the efforts of 4D individuals incarnating in dual bodies. At that point, 4D bodies are done evolving and society has successfully rid itself of 3D ways.

I don't think that's very clear...

I don't know how it could be stated any clearer. I think you are making apples out of bananas here.

You yourself were questioning it. I was agreeing with you.

it's possible that simply 3D vibes will completely cease to instream at that point, but that doesn't mean that they'll be gone from space/time. We know that it's going to be a gradual shift to the 4D sphere and to 4D bodies, that is one thing Ra was rather clear about

Nothing about this quote changes the fact that there will be a moment when the 3D sphere "completely" ceases to exist.

But you are automatically assuming that moment will be a grand event instead of a seamless and unnoticeable happening. Ra never said that.

I don't think that is what the main debate between gradual and instant is about though. The gateway to intelligent infinity will open, somehow, someway, for all to access at a given point. Whether this means it becomes available to them in passing to time/space (through mechanism of harvest or naturally), or within incarnation, or some way we can't comprehend, is unknown.

Certainly, there are several unknowns. However it is known that the contact with intelligent infinity CAN be made within incarnation, as Ra stated that those who contact intelligent infinity can be harvested at will at any time during the cycle.

Just because it can be doesn't mean that it will be forced upon people. It's possible it will be available in space/time, or that it will be made available upon the entities transition into time/space.

Here's some tricky wording which definitely offers some room for interpretation. Ra says "continue unabated." Unabated means without reduction in intensity. So it's very possible Ra was saying that the intensity of the inconveniences will continue for 30 years then gradually slow down, or possibly stop completely. "Due to harvest," yes, it's possible that if harvest is instant, these inconveniences will simply stop and things will be fine, or if harvest is gradual, the increasing harmony among the society complex will gradually cause the inconveniences to end.

We shall see. However, I still don't see a reason for things to continue going on for very long post-harvest. This is a planetary-wide event. Human beings are like microbes living in the membranous film on the surface of the planet. When it goes, we go.

A gradualist view is very human-centric. We think that the universe somehow cares that little Timmy will never get the chance to grow up and become a baseball star, or that Jane won't ever get to have her fairy-tale princess wedding, or that Gandalf the cat didn't quite make it to the next level. So because we can't imagine that there is more to life outside of our own little dramas, we would rather lie to ourselves and believe that the whole entire universe is going to wait for every last person to get their act together.

You are again projecting ideas onto the other side of the debate, assuming that every person who believes it to be a gradual event has arrived there because of some mindset. You don't know every single one personally, and you don't know their reasons. Some probably do care that Timmy will never get the chance to grow up, but that's not the only logical reason one could arrive at that conclusion. It's possible they've simply interpreted Ra's words that way, or listened to Q'uo (if Q'uo could be brought into this debate, it would be over in moments and "gradualists" would win).

Harvest is a gift. To view it as an act of heartless cruelty on the part of the universe because we will be separated from our loved ones says a lot about where somebody's head it at. It kind of flies in the face of everything Ra is talking about in the Law of One.

I seriously don't think anyone here feels that way. They may. But you are definitely assuming a lot of things here and projecting ideas onto the other side of the debate. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have some bias in place preventing them from doing so.

[Tenet Nosce]

After death...

Whomever said that it doesn't involve death? Certainly not me. The only thing I am throwing out there is the possibility that death could become a conscious and voluntary process for those who are harvested.

What about the transitional bodies?

The 3D portion of the body ceases to exist, and the 4D portion joins the rest of 4D, already in progress. Perhaps you are overlooking the fact that 4D is currently ongoing and populated, graciously refraining from physically manifesting itself before the cycle comes to an end.

[zenmaster]

After death...

Whomever said that it doesn't involve death? Certainly not me. The only thing I am throwing out there is the possibility that death could become a conscious and voluntary process for those who are harvested.

Why would someone choose suicide? Makes no sense.

What about the transitional bodies?

The 3D portion of the body ceases to exist, and the 4D portion joins the rest of 4D, already in progress. Perhaps you are overlooking the fact that 4D is currently ongoing and populated, graciously refraining from physically manifesting itself before the cycle comes to an end.

I'm not overlooking it as this is another example of a premise that does not make sense - it's yet another unnecessary contrivance. 4D has to learn a skill in order to not physically manifest in 3D. This could take quite a while. And the few 4D transitionals that are incarnated is unskilled, early 4D.

[Bring4th_Austin]

What about the transitional bodies?

The 3D portion of the body ceases to exist, and the 4D portion joins the rest of 4D, already in progress. Perhaps you are overlooking the fact that 4D is currently ongoing and populated, graciously refraining from physically manifesting itself before the cycle comes to an end.

63.14 Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

Also

63.28 Questioner: Then are these entities of whom we have spoken, the third-density harvestable who have been transferred, the ones who then will, by bisexual reproduction, create the fourth-density complexes that are necessary?
Ra: I am Ra. The influxes of true color green energy complexes will more and more create the conditions in which the atomic structure of cells of bodily complexes is that of the density of love. The mind/body/spirit complexes inhabiting these physical vehicles will be, and to some extent, are, those of whom you spoke and, as harvest is completed, the harvested entities of this planetary influence.

This means these dual bodied individuals alive today will help produce 4D bodies by bisexual reproduction...dual bodies continue until they are evolved to 4D by reproduction.

Also, as Zenmaster pointed out earlier, "as harvest is completed" hints that harvest could be a process.

[zenmaster]

Yes. Basically, as the unharvestable 3D entities die, we get more and more non-local pre-harvested to be born into transitional bodies. And the locally harvested will join in their next incarnation. Because there are a lot of non-locally harvested joining the incarnation, it would seem like a very diverse population is upon us - more diverse, possibly, that what we have now in many respects.

[3DMonkey]

..... If you like to argue what Ra was talking about regarding harvest for days on end....... You might be a wanderer...

[Bring4th_Austin]

..... If you like to argue what Ra was talking about regarding harvest for days on end....... You might be a wanderer...

I was scolded in my dream last night for spending so much time talking and thinking about how we will experience harvest. It goes against the idea of living in the moment and accepting things as they happen. What harvest means is incredibly unimportant, what is important is NOW.

Still, my curiosity persists. It's been my downfall my entire life. I'm too curious.

[Tenet Nosce]

Why would someone choose suicide? Makes no sense.

I've already said multiple times that there might be other ways of going about death which are not normally available, and which might become more widely available post-harvest. If you want to believe that is impossible, it is fine with me.

I'm not overlooking it as this is another example of a premise that does not make sense - it's yet another unnecessary contrivance. 4D has to learn a skill in order to not physically manifest in 3D. This could take quite a while. And the few 4D transitionals that are incarnated is unskilled, early 4D.

4D is not currently empty. It is populated, and not everybody is what you or I would consider to be "human". As I said, those coming from 3D earth will be joining events already in progress.

[AnthroHeart]

Tenet, do you think the 4D earth would grow to a population of billions like it is now? And I wonder if space is no longer a consideration, if two people can occupy the same space so to speak.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'm not overlooking it as this is another example of a premise that does not make sense - it's yet another unnecessary contrivance. 4D has to learn a skill in order to not physically manifest in 3D. This could take quite a while. And the few 4D transitionals that are incarnated is unskilled, early 4D.

4D is not currently empty. It is populated, and not everybody is what you or I would consider to be "human". As I said, those coming from 3D earth will be joining events already in progress.

Ra says the ones populating 4D earth are the transitional body people, so they are existing in both 3D and 4D earth. Why do you say there are non-humans on 4D earth? All we know from Ra is that this plane is populated by humans, humans we see in 3D.

[Conifer16]

Ra said that the people that were harvested in the last harvest cycle are currently populating 4d earth. So I think that is what tenet is saying.(everytime I see your name I think about David tenet )

[Bring4th_Austin]

Ra said that the people that were harvested in the last harvest cycle are currently populating 4d earth. So I think that is what tenet is saying.(everytime I see your name I think about David tenet )

None were harvested in the last cycle. Where does Ra say this? To my knowledge, the only time inhabitants of our 4D sphere are spoken of is here:

63.21 Questioner: Are there any inhabitants at this time of this fourth-density sphere who have already gone through this process. Is it now being populated?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct only in the very, shall we say, recent past.

63.22 Questioner: I would assume that this population is from other planets since the harvesting has not yet occurred on this planet. It is from planets where the harvesting has already occurred. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

63.23 Questioner: Then are these entities visible to us? Could I see one of them? Would he walk upon our surface?
Ra: I am Ra. We have discussed this. These entities are in dual bodies at this time.

[unity100]

I'm incorrect because there is no necessity of being disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact? You do realize that intelligent infinity is contacted for various reasons? For example, healing. So of course there is no obligation to be disincarnate for intelligent infinity contact?

the contacting of intelligent infinity for healing, and during harvest, are of different intensity.

just like how negatives have not.

They contacted intelligent infinity, due to polarization, then died. And?

you are just remembering the named ones who died.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#5

35.5 Questioner: Thank you. That is an important example I believe. I was wondering if any of those who were subordinate to Adolf at that time were able to polarize in a harvestable nature on the negative path?

Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only of two entities who may be harvestable in a negative sense, others still being in the physical incarnation: one known to you as Hermann; the other known, as it preferred to be called, Himmler.

it is possible that some of these may still be alive at this point in time.

Certainly, there are several unknowns. However it is known that the contact with intelligent infinity CAN be made within incarnation, as Ra stated that those who contact intelligent infinity can be harvested at will at any time during the cycle.

After death...

your continued insistence despite the clear evidences pointed to, and coming in a totally un-argumented or rationalized form, is logic defying.

before you attempt to go slap a 2 words reply in someone's post without any logic or reason again, i am going to reiterate this :

35.5 Questioner: Thank you. That is an important example I believe. I was wondering if any of those who were subordinate to Adolf at that time were able to polarize in a harvestable nature on the negative path?

Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only of two entities who may be harvestable in a negative sense, others still being in the physical incarnation: one known to you as Hermann; the other known, as it preferred to be called, Himmler.

there is no obligation of dying, for harvest.

Population Earth: 7 billion... 6 billion... 2 billion... 1 billion... 100 million... 1 million... 1 hundred thousand... 1 thousand... 1 hundred, ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one........ ZERO.

The gradualist argument doesn't circumvent the fact that 3D earth will cease to exist at some point. All it does it add a somewhat absurd end phase where babies mysteriously stop being born, and the population "naturally" dwindles down to the last ten survivors frantically running around the planet looking for food.

now come to think of it, indeed, even if for the 3d population to cease even at the end of 700 years, even in the smoothest way, the world population needs to not only totally stop increasing now, but also start immediately decreasing by 10 million every year. if transition takes 100 years, this has to go up to 70 million a year. even if we say that there are 100 million or so 3-4d incarnates. (that would be a rather high amount tho, even Ra's population at the end of their journey in this octave is 60 million, with all that joined, their harvest was 6.5 out of 30 million or so).

i havent thought about this up till this point.

There's no obligation, sure, but that doesn't mean it will be forced up incarnated entities. It could, or it couldn't.

unfortunately, at this point in time, it seems there is : 'at the end of last cycle, all are harvested regardless of progress'.

I can't help you very much there. You have the idea already in your head what you think harvest is, but you can't expect people to agree with you when there are other interpretations on the matter. The quotes you've provided, in my eyes, are not conclusive in the least. And like I've said, just because you don't agree with other interpretations doesn't mean they don't exist.

actually, the 'idea in my head' is different than how i would like to happen. despite this, due to the evident conclusions in the given information, i am concluding what i explained.

i am at a loss to see exactly that - endless amount of pointers ranging from harvest being told to be going to HAPPEN in 2011 to 'all are harvested regardless of progress' to people in incarnation contacting intelligent infinity and getting harvested and so on was reiterated. yet, still, 'it is unclear'.

and there is one person who reiterates 2 word replies to something that is already having been cleared, without providing any arguments.

i cant conclude anything else about these than 'personal bias' at this point.

I don't think it's upsetting to consider other possibilities. The idea that one side of this debate is denying the other because it is upsetting to them is presumptuous on both sides. It seems to be a fallback tactic of projecting ideas on the other side to help justify their stance in your mind. It's rather easy for me to imagine a scenario where there is no instant shift or global cataclysm. It's a possible scenario, not the scenario I have concluded harvest will be like: children being born now are dual bodied, all 3D entities alive now die naturally in the next 70-80 years, now or some point in the future all disincarnate entities are offered intelligent infinity to decide whether to be harvested, and those entities which die in the near future will be offered the same thing upon their passing. The dual bodies continue to incarnate, and continue to manifest 4D sphere/bodies/society, and at some point in the next 100-700 years (Ra's own estimation), 3D has been gradually phased out without any instant, noticeable event.

It's not the only possible scenario, but it fits in with Ra's words.

first of all, tenet is right - there are mechanics planned by infinite intelligence which act regardless of what happens due to free will in some locale. the very things that make life go around actually.

so very possibly, there is indeed a mechanism for depopulation of a planet too, along with harvest.

it is naive to exaggerate 3-4d transitionary entities being born. the numbers of these entities were told to be low, and it was told to be a recent phenomenon.

currently world population is GROWING at a rate of approx 1% per year. notice - not babies being born, but population GROWING. birth rate is close to 2%, decline rate is close to 1%. this means, 60 million entities are being born, at the least.

first, it is impossible for these all to be 3-4d harvested entities here for 4d experience - 60 million is a whopass number. estimating a 'good' harvest rate of 10% (even Ra's successful harvest was around only 5%), this means there has to be a 600 million crowded planet somewhere, giving 60 million positive harvest for every one of our years. this is a phenomenal number.

second, even if that was as such, and 60 million harvested 4d entities in dual bodies were being born every year, the world would have already turned into a paranormal circus due to the feats these entities are able to manifest thanks to the 3-4d situation of their body and their remembering of 4d vibrations due to harvestee status. we dont have such a situation.

third, we were told that a lot of entities were coming here, for the harvest occasion, and this was happening in seniority order. this neglected piece of information completes the above, which concludes as the majority of those being born on this planet being harvest-nearing 3d senior entities.

which would necessitate them to be in 3d bodies for sure, since they would not be able to handle the 4d aspects of a 3-4d body.

What about 4D Earth, which is already inhabited by the dual bodied individuals (who also inhabit 3D Earth)? Those people have to be around to create 4D bodies.

they will. however their numbers can be nowhere near 60 million being born every year.

Dual bodied individuals transform our 3D ways and thought-forms to better fit a 4D society, eventually society has become a 4D society through the efforts of 4D individuals incarnating in dual bodies. At that point, 4D bodies are done evolving and society has successfully rid itself of 3D ways.

wow. unfortunately i have to say that this is too much wishful thinking.

you cannot 'transform' souls. a 3d soul, is still a 3d soul as it is. only its advancement through lived lives and experiences changes that. if it was too easy for placing 100-300 million 4d entities in dual bodies or other bodies in the middle of 7 billion 3d entities and having the former 'transform' the other into '4d ways', everything ranging from the transition you speak of to harvest, even the advancement of the soul would be too easy.

a 3d entity is a 3d entity. as long as he is vibrating in 3d frequencies in mind/spirit, he is going to produce 3d thoughts and thought forms.

you cannot 'transform' 7 billion souls. souls are not chickens in a coop. each one of them have their own grand path to follow.

Just because it can be doesn't mean that it will be forced upon people. It's possible it will be available in space/time, or that it will be made available upon the entities transition into time/space.

again, 'all are harvested regardless of progress at the end of last cycle'. 'made available' doesnt fit in with this. going through harvest is not an optional choice at the last harvest of a planet.

What harvest means is incredibly unimportant

you people still havent grasped what 'contact with intelligent infinity' means ...

it is something that cannot be attained until towards end of 7d as a manifestation. you can contact intelligent infinity increasingly as the densities progress, but, apparently a continuous unison type of contact does not happen until 7d end.

therefore, for any entity 6d and lower, the harvest event which opens a gate to intelligent infinity, is a great opportunity.

[Conifer16]

Oh. I thought that there are three harvest opportunities throughout the 75,000 years of 3rd density and I thought that the second harvest had something like 150 people who were harvested and I thought that Ra said they currently live In 4th density on earth. So that is what I was referring to. Was that not stated in the Ra material?

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet, do you think the 4D earth would grow to a population of billions like it is now? And I wonder if space is no longer a consideration, if two people can occupy the same space so to speak.

Sure, I don't see why not. We know that there is variable physicality, at least. Also I don't foresee overpopulation being as big of a deal as entities will no longer be forced to consume inordinate amounts of resources in order to survive.

---

Here is Ra's attempt at describing fourth density experience. I am very sorry if I am sounding rude, but to assert that the change will be so gradual as to be unnoticeable seems to fly in the face of what Ra is describing here. It would appear that some folks think they are disagreeing with me, when in fact they are disagreeing with Ra. Which is fine, but then let's call a spade a spade.

16.44 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a short description of the conditions in the fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thought of other-selves; it is a plane wherein one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

As for the population of fourth density:

Questioner: Do any of the UFOs presently reported at this time come from other planets, or do you have this knowledge?

Ra: I am one of the members of the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. There are approximately fifty-three civilizations, comprising approximately five hundred planetary consciousness complexes in this Confederation. This Confederation contains those from your own planet who have attained dimensions beyond your third. It contains planetary entities within your solar system, and it contains planetary entities from other galaxies. It is a true Confederation in that its members are not alike, but allied in service according to the Law of One.

Questioner: Thank you very much. I would like to say again that we consider it a great honor, privilege, and duty to be able to do this particular work. I would like to reiterate that some of my questions may seem irrelevant at times, but I am trying to ask them in a manner so as to gain a foothold into the application of the Law of One.

We are now in the fourth density. Will the effects of the fourth density increase in the next thirty years? Will we see more changes in our environment and our effect upon our environment?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is a vibrational spectrum. Your time/space continuum has spiraled your planetary sphere and your, what we would call galaxy, what you call star, into this vibration. This will cause the planetary sphere itself to electromagnetically realign its vortices of reception of the in-streaming of cosmic forces expressing themselves as vibrational webs so that the Earth thus be fourth-density magnetized, as you may call it.

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy patterns within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

Those who remain in fourth density upon this plane will be of the so-called positive orientation. Many will come from elsewhere, for it would appear that with all the best efforts of the Confederation, which includes those from your peoples’ inner planes, inner civilizations, and those from other dimensions, the harvest will still be much less than this planetary sphere is capable of comfortably supporting in service.

---

(everytime I see your name I think about David tenet )

Which David?

---

A lot of people think they're interpretation is the only one which can be correct and they have (as we see) pages and pages of logical arguments to support their opinion, which like I said, I feel is derived from bias.

First of all, as hogey11 specifically requested the other thread to NOT be argumentative, I am going to respond to your sideways jab back over here.

Who are "a lot of people"? Myself and unity100? You appear to have a fundamental difficulty discerning between what was said, and an interpretation of what was said.

For my part, I have never, not once, anywhere in this forum given a description of "how 4D is going to be" and then declared that my view was the "one and only true way" of seeing things. So quit acting like an adolescent and be a grown up. If you want to accuse people of things, do it to their faces.

Yours and my difference of opinion is NOT because we each have interpreted Ra's words in a different light, but rather because YOU allow for such a high degree of subjectivity in interpretation, that is somehow makes sense to interpret a statement as meaning the OPPOSITE of what it actually says.

[unity100]

Tenet, do you think the 4D earth would grow to a population of billions like it is now? And I wonder if space is no longer a consideration, if two people can occupy the same space so to speak.

Sure, I don't see why not. We know that there is variable physicality, at least. Also I don't foresee overpopulation being as big of a deal as entities will no longer be forced to consume inordinate amounts of resources in order to survive.

you are thinking only in terms of 3d necessities. you arent taking into account the harvest rates issues.

even with Ra's harmonious harvest the harvest rate was only 5%. this would mean that harvest rates would be lower for mixed harvests.

population a newly 4d planet with 1 billion 4d souls, would mean 1 billion starter 4d souls. this would necessitate there being recent harvests happened on any number of 3d planets with populations totaling 40 billion entities, if you take 5% harvest rate of Ra.

billion is not a normal number, and the population number we see on this planet in the magnitude of 6-7 billion would not be attainable in a planet of this size without inordinate amounts of technology being given to the society living there, like it happened here. for that, a mass wanderer wave toiled for approx 200 years. we can be sure that this thing is not the norm, because as the maldek, mars incidents prove, this amount of technology being given to 3d societies can cause grand scale mishaps.

therefore a planet which has not received such excessive technology wouldnt support billions of entities comfortably. moreover, not all logi choose 3d lifeforms that can manipulate the environment - there are sea based bodies, there are trees, there are all kinds of bodies. so, a normal 3d planet would support lower levels of populations, depending on its size.

even this planet sported only 345,000 entities at the end of 2nd cycle.

if we take Ra's numbers of 30 million, and increase it considering venus's size, even ten times a planet the size of venus with ten times resources would sport 300 million. even if you go far to adjust this for other factors and ramp up, and go to 500 million, you still would need 80 average 3d planets having had harvests of their total populations in order to populate this planet with these numbers, right at this time and hour.

AND, all of these harvestees need to be compatible with this logos' archetype, and the conditions and spiritual biases on this planet. even the fact that the spiritual mass of an entity evolved as a giant sea creature would be much bigger than an entity which evolved as a small ape and the incompatibility that would result from these two living in a body or the sea creature living in a body that lies far below its mind/spirit can handle would be a hint.

as you can see, numbers as great as these, do not hold as the densities progress upward. there are even more entities in all kinds of sizes and varieties in 2d than there are in 3d. the 3d population of 6 billion of this planet, cannot be even compared to the numbers of entities or near entities in 2d. however, as you can see, the number of entities also gets reduced from 2d to 3d. and if we consider that Ra is only at 60 million at this point, despite any/all entities which joined them during 4, 5 and 6th densities, the proposition gets stronger.

in short, higher densities are not as populated as some of you seem to believe.