Poll about cancer "cure"

[Tenet Nosce]

8. Detoxification. Many cancers are exacerbated by environmental poisons. (As evidenced by increased cancer rates in certain areas or after toxic spills, radiation, etc.)

Oops! Forgot that one! Thanks!

9. Spiritual/Use of Catalyst. We know from Ra that cancer can be a manifestation of unresolved anger. We also know that everything is catalyst.

Yes, I sort of implied that as a subset of 7. but it is most certainly deserving of special consideration.

[zenmaster]

Predictably, the zealots surface with their handwaving about alternative treatments, ignoring the actual question.

Calling people names is a violation of guideline #1.

Regardless of how you want to frame it, soapbox for alternative treatments was opened due to bursting at the seams with huge bias, when in fact the question had nothing to do with it.

Ever hear of Chemotherapy? It's like you have no idea that cancer can be completely cured. Hundreds of thousands completely cured in the ultimate sense of the word. Yep, with money paid.

That's despite chemo, not because of it.

Um, no Monica. It does in fact cure cancer, in the strictest sense of the word.
"chemotherapy destroys cancer cells to the point that your doctor can no longer detect them in your body and they will not grow back." Yep, that'd be a cure.

Chemo is the established 'treatment' by the established medical monopoly only,

Both a treatment and a cure, all in one. Just imagine that? It seems that someone needs to speak up around here in order to counter all of the false information. Of course, lying is not against the forum rules.

[BrownEye]

It does in fact cure cancer, in the strictest sense of the word.
"chemotherapy destroys cancer cells to the point that your doctor can no longer detect them in your body and they will not grow back." Yep, that'd be a cure.

This was the prescription for elimination of Gnosticism as well as other alternative forms of spirituality.

To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth? "Doctor can no longer detect" is a pretty funny thought right there as well.

So we have allopathy which kills beyond detection, and holistic which just allows it to go back to a non manifest state?

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I find that funny because exactly the same behavior as believing leeches/bloodletting helped your health somehow during the Middle Ages.

It actually can be helpful with the right understanding. I would say similar in function to fasting to remove toxic thought forms. Consciously you would be able to direct the thought forms to the area of the leech, then remove the leech and its accumulation of thought forms. I don't know if that is what they did, but it would work if done in that way.

[zenmaster]

To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth?

Yes, as testified by thousands of treated cancer patients.

[Monica]

Regardless of how you want to frame it, soapbox for alternative treatments was opened due to bursting at the seams with huge bias, when in fact the question had nothing to do with it.

Your subjective perception of the opinions of others isn't a justification for calling them derogatory names.

Um, no Monica. It does in fact cure cancer, in the strictest sense of the word.
"chemotherapy destroys cancer cells to the point that your doctor can no longer detect them in your body and they will not grow back." Yep, that'd be a cure.

You are choosing to not address the points I made and the links I provided.

Chemo is the established 'treatment' by the established medical monopoly only,

Both a treatment and a cure, all in one. Just imagine that? It seems that someone needs to speak up around here in order to counter all of the false information. Of course, lying is not against the forum rules.

So now you are saying those with different opinions are lying.

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To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth? "Doctor can no longer detect" is a pretty funny thought right there as well.

Yeah, beyond funny...absurd, really...being that they aren't addressing the root issues, but focusing on a particular area of the body. I suppose when that same person gets cancerous tumors elsewhere in the body, that doesn't count, eh?

It actually can be helpful with the right understanding. I would say similar in function to fasting to remove toxic thought forms. Consciously you would be able to direct the thought forms to the area of the leech, then remove the leech and its accumulation of thought forms. I don't know if that is what they did, but it would work if done in that way.

Interesting idea. I kinda don't think that's how they did it, though. And, surely there are easier, less messy ways of removing energetic nasties!

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To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth?

Yes, as testified by thousands of treated cancer patients.

Ah, then, by that logic alternative treatments are actually cures.

and, since thousands of cancer patients DID get cancer again, doesn't that sorta cancel out the ones who didn't?

Whereas, those who healed using alternative methods, typically don't have a recurrence. (Generally speaking...there are no absolutes of course.)

[BrownEye]

To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth?

Yes, as testified by thousands of treated cancer patients.

To look at this honestly, how do we compare the percentage that died from the treatments to the percentage that died from natural "treatments"?

I personally knew 13 people that died from cancer treatment compared to zero for natural methods. I have a relative that gained another 30 years (still counting) after being given 6 months (not to his knowledge).

[zenmaster]

Regardless of how you want to frame it, soapbox for alternative treatments was opened due to bursting at the seams with huge bias, when in fact the question had nothing to do with it.

Your subjective perception of the opinions of others isn't a justification for calling them derogatory names.

It's zealotry - bias. When contents of the unconscious surface only according to specific considerations

Um, no Monica. It does in fact cure cancer, in the strictest sense of the word.
"chemotherapy destroys cancer cells to the point that your doctor can no longer detect them in your body and they will not grow back." Yep, that'd be a cure.

You are choosing to not address the points I made and the links I provided.

They are irrelevant to the question - which serves to further reinforce my comments. I already know chemo can cause cancer - I don't need a link to tell me that.

Chemo is the established 'treatment' by the established medical monopoly only,

Both a treatment and a cure, all in one. Just imagine that? It seems that someone needs to speak up around here in order to counter all of the false information. Of course, lying is not against the forum rules.

So now you are saying those with different opinions are lying.

No. Knowingly telling untruths or hiding truth is lying. Very simple.

[Monica]

To look at this honestly, how do we compare the percentage that died from the treatments to the percentage that died from natural "treatments"?

I personally knew 13 people that died from cancer treatment compared to zero for natural methods. I have a relative that gained another 30 years (still counting) after being given 6 months (not to his knowledge).

Brilliant idea, Pickle! I too have met many people who healed using natural methods, and many who died using allopathic methods. But the reverse isn't true. In most cases, those who healed using natural methods were already given up on by the allopathic doctors.

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It's zealotry - bias. When contents of the unconscious surface only according to specific considerations

They are irrelevant to the question - which serves to further reinforce my comments. I already know chemo can cause cancer - I don't need a link to tell me that.

No. Knowingly telling untruths or hiding truth is lying. Very simple.

[zenmaster]

Even the allopathic medical community doesn't call chemo a 'cure.'

Which doesn't make it a true statement Monica. In grounded reality, they do now, and have done so for many years Monica. Very simple. American Cancer Society (The relevant agency promoting awareness of the condition from the standpoint of the allopathic medical community):

"...The body is made up of millions of normal healthy cells. Cancer starts when something causes a normal cell to become a cancer cell. This cancer cell then grows out of control and makes more cancer cells. Each type of cancer affects the body in different ways. If cancer is not treated, it can spread and affect the rest of your body.

Your doctor may suggest chemo to cure your cancer..."

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of course, those with some experience with alternative healthcare treatments, (despite?) knowing better, will attempt to modify history in an attempt to promote their huge bias.

[Monica]

Your doctor may suggest chemo to cure your cancer..."

Well, how about that! They do indeed refer to it as a cure! I stand corrected!

Gosh, they're even more audacious than I thought!

of course, those with some experience with alternative healthcare treatments, (despite?) knowing better, will attempt to modify history in an attempt to promote their huge bias.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. Now I know you've been joking all along. Have a nice day, zen!

[Patrick]

There are so many ways to exit an incarnation. Cancer is just a popular way right now. The plague was more popular once, but it's not in fashion it seems.

[reeay]

It sure is popular... #2 leading cause of death after heart disease in the U.S.

[Tenet Nosce]

To say they will not grow back, is that considered a truth?

Yes, as testified by thousands of treated cancer patients.

Ah, then, by that logic alternative treatments are actually cures.

I don't think Western medicine's "cure rate" is determined by testimonials. Otherwise, yes many alternative treatments would be considered equal or better cures.

Now on the other hand, if an alternative treatment were investigated using the same kinds of studies used to evaluate chemo, radiation, and surgery, and found to have comparable improvements in the same end points, they could legally be called "cures" as well.

Only problem is the level of research needed often does not command the actual dollars to perform it. The treatments aren't nearly as profitable, nor nearly as potentially dangerous.

An important principle for both "sides" here is that lack of evidence doesn't equal evidence of lack. That is to say: It is unfair to summarily dismiss alternative treatments simply because certain studies haven't been done. Especially when there is enough scientific evidence to strongly suggest a benefit of certain alternative treatments.

On the other hand, it is also unfair to summarily dismiss chemo, radiation, and surgical methods. They do have more scientific evidence for outcomes. The risks are often higher, but known. At the same time, when a tumor is excised out of the body, it is physically gone. Assuming the surgeon did a good job that is.

With alternative treatments the main risk is the propensity for cancer to progress while a misguided approach fails to produce the desired result. Although a great many cancers progress fairly slowly. For example, many men diagnosed with prostate cancer are advised to do nothing past a certain age, as the symptoms are not too severe and chances are they will die of something else first.

To look at this honestly, how do we compare the percentage that died from the treatments to the percentage that died from natural "treatments"?

I personally knew 13 people that died from cancer treatment compared to zero for natural methods. I have a relative that gained another 30 years (still counting) after being given 6 months (not to his knowledge).

Brilliant idea, Pickle! I too have met many people who healed using natural methods, and many who died using allopathic methods. But the reverse isn't true. In most cases, those who healed using natural methods were already given up on by the allopathic doctors.

Pickle has the right question, but we don't know the answer to that. There's no way to separate "death from cancer" and "death from cancer treatment." Also, the mainstream treatments are as wildly different as the cancers themselves.

But the reverse isn't true.

A good friend of mine named Bill was diagnosed with stage 4 colorectal cancer at age 62. He was also high-strung, ate a primarily meat and potatoes diet, and smoked heavily. In addition to this, he was a consummate "conspiracy theorist" to the point that he spent much effort stockpiling goods in anticipation of a total collapse of society, followed by wars with the "alien reptoids."

It didn't really "come out of nowhere" as Bill had been having progressively worse digestive symptoms that he had never really attended to. Over time, the tumor grew to occlude the entire colon, and eventually he couldn't pass any more stool.

They immediately put in a colostomy bag and began discussing surgery, chemo and radiation options. Bill did not want any of them. He was set on curing the cancer naturally.

Bill started doing alternative treatments recommended by people he knew from all over the country and in the alternative health media. Black salve, infrared sauna, a Rife machine, colloidal silver, LEDs. You name it, he probably did it. And the more "fringe" the better.

He also made a reasonable attempt at diet, but IMO there was still too much sugar and flour going into the system.

In my discussions with Bill I knew that he really wanted to beat the cancer naturally, so it could be an example to the world. Often times, he asked me what I thought he should do about it.

My opinion at the time was that he should get a large bowel resection done, and gather more information about the radiation and the chemo they were offering. Just to be informed. Then watch closely and see what happens.

In the meantime, continue with the alternative treatments. Although I personally questioned the basis of some of them. But Bill wanted nothing to do with any conventional treatments. He really believed that some combination of these alternative treatments was going to somehow reverse a stage 4 tumor and unblock his colon!

Granted I new less then about digestive health than I know now. But even today, if I were faced with the same type of case I would probably say the same thing. There are many alternative treatments which would probably reduce the chances of recurrence, but not a "cure" in any sense of the word. Needless to say, Bill is no longer here to use my services.

Bottom line: Society is still here and the "reptoids" have not invaded. My friend Bill, however, died of colon cancer. The alternative treatments did not work, and the mainstream ones couldn't have killed him, since he didn't accept any.

The thing is, we're probably less likely to hear about these kinds of stories, as their surviving friends and family are less likely to broadcast them.

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It sure is popular... #2 leading cause of death after heart disease in the U.S.

From some angles, it would make more sense to break the category up into subcategories, as some cancers are very different from one another.

... and if I had it my way, I would combine heart disease, stoke, and diabetes all together under "Diabesity". I might also combine accidents with suicide under "Wrongful Death". Kind of gives the "Leading Causes of Death" list an interesting twist.

#1 Diabesity 796,960
#2 Cancer: 567,628
#3 Wrongful Death: 154,930

The "Pro Life" version is based on abortion statistics since 1973. Looks like about a million a year. So that's 40 million people, plus their kids and grandkids makes 120 million more Americans we would have right now. Just accounting for those born since 1973.

But there's a whole two centuries of abortions going on in America before 1973 to account for! I can only imagine how huge the population would be right now, had none of those abortions occurred.

Worldwide, the numbers get even more crazy! According to my calculations, there'd be another 4 billion of us here accounting from 1973 onward. Taking into account the whole of human history, the number of people we would have would be pushing a quadrillion!

I wonder if Mother Earth was built to sustain that much human life?

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"...The body is made up of millions of normal healthy cells..."'

Millions? Try a quadrillion. And 90% of them aren't human cells!

I wonder what will happen once we are able to detect cancer down to a single cell. Seeing as how cells turn cancerous every day, we would have to come up with some kind of threshold before making a diagnosis, or declaring a "cure."

For example:

Detection, Analysis of 'Cell Dust' May Allow Diagnosis, Monitoring of Brain Cancer

ScienceDaily (Nov. 11, 2012) — A novel miniature diagnostic platform using nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) technology is capable of detecting minuscule cell particles known as microvesicles in a drop of blood. Microvesicles shed by cancer cells are even more numerous than those released by normal cells, so detecting them could prove a simple means for diagnosing cancer.

[reeay]

Most doctors from the western medical establishment use the term 'remission' instead of 'cure.'
http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimne...remission/

Is there a difference?

The author of the book Heart's Code (Paul Pearsall, a neuropsychologist) wrote about his journey of healing using his inner guidance to detect and treat cancer. While undergoing chemo and radiation, he was guided by his inner guidance to adjust the dosages/intensity of the treatment. I think perhaps, this is the difficulty with allopathic treatment - that they treat each body as the same, while each body has its own unique needs for healing.

I don't see why a person 'should' go one way or another, that is the person's choice, given that the options are clear (as far as I know, from my experience with working with cancer patients).

[Goldenratio]

"I wonder if Mother Earth was built to sustain that much human life?"

She has a heart of nickle and iron. Shes a tough old broad.

[Conifer16]

D.R Fritz Albert Popp.

Maybe?

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@goldenratio
how do you know that The earth has a heart of Nickel and iron? :-P

[zenmaster]

Most doctors from the western medical establishment use the term 'remission' instead of 'cure.'
http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimne...remission/

Is there a difference?

http://www.ehow.com/way_5673148_differen...-cure.html

[Monica]

Most doctors from the western medical establishment use the term 'remission' instead of 'cure.'

The medical establishment has and does use whatever term they like, but don't allow others to do the same. They have declared themselves the authority and routinely censors anyone offering alternative treatments. They use the term 'cured' to describe someone who managed to stay cancer-free for x number of years, but only if that person used conventional treatments. If the person has been cancer-free for that same number of years or even much longer but used alternative treatments, and then tries to share what worked for them, the medical establishment tries to shut them down, calls them quacks, or even puts them in jail.

So it sounds to me like the use of the term has much more to do with profits, than anything else.

[reeay]

If the person has been cancer-free for that same number of years or even much longer but used alternative treatments, and then tries to share what worked for them, the medical establishment tries to shut them down, calls them quacks, or even puts them in jail.

So it sounds to me like the use of the term has much more to do with profits, than anything else.

Could you share specific incidences where these situations you described occurred?

The medical establishment is a system, a paradigm. They make their own definitions, their own rules/standards, and their own way of measuring success. So alternative modes of care may overlap but is usually not in congruence with the medical paradigm. They have limited capacity to say whether alternative modes of care works or does not work due to certain levels of 'incompatibility' in defining & measuring illness/health.... therefore they are barred thru their ethical code to make definitive statements or recommendations about/for alternative modes of care (because everything they push has to clear their own system and rules of determining success... a.k.a. clinical trials).

They have not found a cure for cancer, only treatment methods that have proven to reduce or eliminate some or all symptoms of cancer. That's why they use the term 'remission.' If they said cure, they would get loads of medical malpractice suits and go bankrupt.

It is a corrupt and imperfect system for sure.

Cancer is rather a wide and complex field of understanding... what is 'cancer'?

[Monica]

Could you share specific incidences where these situations you described occurred?

There are lots. Here are some, for starters:

Dr. Ann Wigmore, Dr. Eva Snead, Dr. Lorraine Day, Dr. Christopher, Dr. Schulze, Dr. Bernardo, Gerson...off the top of my head.

Dr. Lorraine Day Harrassed for daring to share how she cured her cancer after the medical establishment left her for dead <<== warning: contains graphic images of tumors

http://healingtools.tripod.com/drsch_nhc.html

We have watched them pass more and more laws restricting our rights, they have made many healing herbs, foods and even nutrients illegal. Natural health professionals that flourished a few decades ago are now barred by law to practice, and Natural Doctors, Holistic Healers, Health Food Store Owners and even family members of the sick have been arrested and jailed for using natural remedies. If you disagree with your doctor regarding the medical treatment of your children, they can be taken away from you, put in a foster home, and you can be arrested for endangering the health and welfare of your child. There are many people jailed every year, put there for disagreeing with medical doctors and their policies. Organized medical crime has gone so far, they have outlawed words for other health professionals to use such as Diagnose and Cure. Just by using these words you can be arrested for "Practicing Medicine Without a License."

Orthodox medical treatment would be put in its place if people had a more visible and available choice. The majority of the people in this country would rather choose prevention and a Natural Doctor, than wait for the disease to surface and be poisoned, burned and mutilated in the name of science. It is estimated that if people had a choice, lack of demand would shrink Doctors and Drugs to less than 10% of it's current size, with the remainder almost entirely related to trauma medicine. That would be a $ 900,000,000,000.00 (nine hundred BILLION dollar) loss to them. They are not going to take this loss without a good fight.
Hoxsey was constantly harassed by the A.M.A. and the F.D.A. and arrested on numerous. occasions, even though he proved his herbal cancer formula worked. One of our great teachers, Dr. John Christopher was arrested 6 times and Dr. Schulze has been arrested and is constantly harassed.

Cancer is Serious Business <<== Watch up to 3:30 to see testimony about child dying from the treatment, though her body was cancer-free from alternative methods - (Note: Dr. Burzynski's techniques are only effective for certain types of cancers, not all...but his work is very well documented.)

http://dcawatch.com/fda-and-state-author...-remedies/

A decade’s-long dispute between a highly respected physician/scientist and the State of California ended with the elderly doctor, Bruce Halstead, on criminal probation and stripped of his license to practice medicine.

In light of this and other recent actions taken by state governmental authorities in cooperation with such U. S. institutions as the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the FTC (Federal Trade Commission), the government appears to be engaged in a concerted war against a domain of the healing arts known as alternative medicine. This war, ostensibly for the protection of American citizens from unscrupulous “quacks,” has apparently moved into a new phase. The FDA’s pursuit of medical “public enemies” is no longer restricted primarily to non-MD practitioners not trained at established medical schools–those the general public largely considers the unorthodox fringe of the medical world. These federal agencies are now engaging the force of the government’s legal machinery in the prosecution of physicians practicing “conventional medicine”–those who have dared to recognize and even incorporate into their practices the efficacy of holistic natural remedies.
ARTICLES
Proof that the cancer industry doesn’t want a cure – even if it’s a pharmaceutical
The Big Business of Breast Cancer Gold Mine for Pink Profiteers
Chemotherapies that target angiogenesis can increase metastasis threefold- Cancer Cell Journal
Surgery – Biopsies Cause Metastasis – New Study finds

Persecuted (& murdered) doctors, health professionals <<=== see this

Just a few in a long list. You can't run a medical monopoly without harassing and suppressing alt med practitioners. This ranges from prosecution (Hadwen, Issels), medical Kangaroo court (Wakefield, Blakemore-Brown), forcing out of the country (Gerson, Burton), removing licence to practice (Durrant-Peatfield, Roehrich), to experiencing jail (Issels, Hamer, McCabe, Wainright, Forrest), attempted murder (Nkuba), or murder (Reich, Rife, Johnson Taylor Gerson)

"After presenting a rather effective lecture on cancer…the windshield was shot out of my car on the road back to San Francisco. The next night the glass window in the tail gate was shot out (300 miles removed from the first shooting). The police said, 'maybe someone is trying to tell you something'. The late Arthur Harris, M.D. was threatened by two men with assassination if he continued to use laetrile. Since that time we have de-centralised the work so that, if any two of us are shot out of the saddle, it will have only a slight negative effect on the program."---Dr. Krebs

The medical establishment is a system, a paradigm. They make their own definitions, their own rules/standards, and their own way of measuring success. So alternative modes of care may overlap but is usually not in congruence with the medical paradigm.

Yes, it is a paradigm. But it shouldn't be a monopoly. People ought to be able to choose freely. The medical establishment fights any challenge to its tightly controlled monopoly.

They have limited capacity to say whether alternative modes of care works or does not work due to certain levels of 'incompatibility' in defining & measuring illness/health.... therefore they are barred thru their ethical code to make definitive statements or recommendations about/for alternative modes of care (because everything they push has to clear their own system and rules of determining success... a.k.a. clinical trials).

I don't think that's it. There is a huge amount of clinical evidence for alternative methods. Alternative practitioners don't generally have an ethical dilemma, though certainly not all of them are ethical. The main problem is censorship by the medical establishment of anything outside their paradigm.

They have not found a cure for cancer, only treatment methods that have proven to reduce or eliminate some or all symptoms of cancer. That's why they use the term 'remission.' If they said cure, they would get loads of medical malpractice suits and go bankrupt.

'They' meaning the medical establishment? They haven't found a pharmaceutical cure, but they are certainly aware of numerous methods that facilitate healing. They don't embrace those methods; rather, they censor them. Bad for business!

There are so many alternative methods for helping the body heal cancer, it would fill a book. Oh wait! make that numerous books!

I would be remiss though if I didn't mention the lowly weed:

ALL cancers cured in 6 weeks by alkalizing etc.

and

For the record, juicing raw cannabis has NO psychoactive effects. It is very powerful!

Power of Raw Cannabis

It is a corrupt and imperfect system for sure.

It's great for broken bones, gunshot wounds and car accidents!

Cancer is rather a wide and complex field of understanding... what is 'cancer'?

Dr. Otto Warburg proved back in 1931 that cancer can only live in an acidic environment. So 'they' have had a cure for cancer for 81 years! Many alternative practitioners know from clinical experience that any patient who consistently keeps their pH above 7 will see results. Here is one of them:

Dr. Bernardo on cancer

These and many other doctors are harassed and even put in jail for sharing what has worked for hundreds or thousands of their patients. Dr. Bernardo and Dr. Budwig both had a 95+ % success rate with advanced stage cancer patients. Chemo is a joke by comparison. A very sick joke!

[Tenet Nosce]

So it sounds to me like the use of the term has much more to do with profits, than anything else.

Dietary supplements are no small business, but it's true they are eclipsed by pharmaceutical sales!

Industry impact is nearly triple U.S. consumer sales

A new study funded by the Natural Products Foundation has found the total economic contribution of the dietary supplement industry to the U.S. economy is more than three times annual consumer sales, or $61 billion dollars per year. The study also showed that the dietary supplement industry has enough activity throughout production and sales to support more than 450,000 jobs, while industry concerns paid more than $10 billion dollars in taxes in 2006.

A problem with the money argument is that it applies to both sides. That doesn't make it a wrong argument, just one that has a tendency to fall flat.

For example, I make money off of the supplements I recommend. However, I use a distributor that carries thousands of products so it's not like I am restricting my recommendations to one or two brands for profit motives. I actually review comparable products to see what represents the best value for the quality. Plus- if people want to buy stuff on their own that is no skin off of my nose.

At the end of the day, making medical purchases is "buyer beware" just like anything else. Look at how many people purchase a cell phone or a car based on branding and style, rather than functionality.

Much of the business of medicine is a direct result of having created a system whereby responsibility for choices made is abdicated by the consumer. That and making things appear as if they are "free" when they really aren't.

For example, did you know that the cash price for lab tests is often half of what would be billed to insurance for the exact same thing?

I don't think anything is going to really change until the masses move past the stage of authoritarian value memes. So long as patients are looking for somebody to "tell me what to do" there will be practitioners telling them that X is "the one true way."

These memes transcend any dualistic characterizations at play. There are both patients and practitioners that subscribe to authoritarianism. And there are both conventional and alternative practitioners that do so.

[Monica]

Dietary supplements are no small business, but it's true they are eclipsed by pharmaceutical sales!

Very true! Nutritional supplements/health foods industry is big business, no doubt about it. And certainly there is much room for greed and abuse, poor quality products being hyped, etc. But, overall, I see that growth of the health foods industry as a good thing, because it's showing that more and more people are questioning the medical establishment and seeking out alternatives. There is some bad along with the good, but overall I think it's a good thing that they are rising in popularity.

And, as you said, they have a looooooonnnnng way to go to even come close to the massive drug industry!

I remember reading that if you look at the top 10 pharmaceutical corporations in the Fortune 500. their combined profits exceeds that of the remaining 490 corporations put together!!!

That's mind-blowing! Especially when you consider that the remaining 490 includes all of Big Oil!

A new study funded by the Natural Products Foundation has found the total economic contribution of the dietary supplement industry to the U.S. economy is more than three times annual consumer sales, or $61 billion dollars per year.

Do you have the numbers handy for Big Pharma? mercola would probably have the figures somewhere.

[quote='Tenet Nosce' pid='104503' dateline='1352820160']
I make money off of the supplements I recommend. However, I use a distributor that carries thousands of products so it's not like I am restricting my recommendations to one or two brands for profit motives. I actually review comparable products to see what represents the best value for the quality. Plus- if people want to buy stuff on their own that is no skin off of my nose.

I'm very glad to hear that! I've met a lot of alternative practitioners who sell only certain brands, and automatically promote all the products from their chosen company. I don't respect that. Those practitioners also tend to be very closed-minded about anything new.

It is a sign of integrity to seek out the best products for that particular patient, regardless of brand or how much profit the practitioner makes, instead of fitting the patient into a mold. Nice to meet a practitioner with integrity!

For example, did you know that the cash price for lab tests is often half of what would be billed to insurance for the exact same thing?

Yes, very true. I learned that when I was trying to sell health insurance. (I say "trying" because I was miserably bad at it! I can't sell something I'm not passionate about.) People who have the cash can negotiate with doctors and hospitals and get the costs drastically cut. Most people aren't aware of this!

I don't think anything is going to really change until the masses move past the stage of authoritarian value memes. So long as patients are looking for somebody to "tell me what to do" there will be practitioners telling them that X is "the one true way."

Agreed! Same with religion.

These memes transcend any dualistic characterizations at play. There are both patients and practitioners that subscribe to authoritarianism. And there are both conventional and alternative practitioners that do so.

Yup! I just think it's more prevalent in conventional, because virtually all conventional doctors subscribe to that mentality - it's how they were taught - whereas there are many, many alternative practitioners who don't.

[reeay]

Thank you Monica, I'll read thru those resources.

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Much of the business of medicine is a direct result of having created a system whereby responsibility for choices made is abdicated by the consumer. That and making things appear as if they are "free" when they really aren't.

For example, did you know that the cash price for lab tests is often half of what would be billed to insurance for the exact same thing?

I don't think anything is going to really change until the masses move past the stage of authoritarian value memes. So long as patients are looking for somebody to "tell me what to do" there will be practitioners telling them that X is "the one true way."

These memes transcend any dualistic characterizations at play. There are both patients and practitioners that subscribe to authoritarianism. And there are both conventional and alternative practitioners that do so.

There's interestingly a parallel process occurring between how 'the system' works and how we are approaching the issue.

It's interesting to see how this authoritarian system has it's polar counterpart in the reactionary movements. Now we have both side, that seem like polar opposites, doing exactly the same thing - which is, don't use the other system, they are wrong/we are right. This is not 'balancing' polarities, it's a creation of a catalyst that is maybe related to orange/yellow ray issue or blue/orange/green vMeme.

Like with the medical system, we also utilize the modernist thinking that the observed is independent of the observer. There appears to be a need to separate ourselves from what we are thinking about, and that creates dichotomies (e.g., victim-perpetrator, powerful-powerless) - this is linear, first tier meme thinking/being.

From a systemic perspective, there is no separation between observer and observed, and no victim-perpetrator or powerful-powerless. The doctor and patient come together around a problem, and creates their own little system. Within the system, there is reciprocal dynamics of control and power.

So the powerless, passive patient exercises his/her power in a different way, but is none-the-less exerting his/her power through choices and behaviors related to his/her choice. Power/authority has a circular cause-effect.

So in thinking about medical establishment, we are not objective observers. We're actually one.. part of the problem. In order to innovate or come to resolution, we have to be able to observe ourselves in how we understand and accept the problem at hand.

Or else we'll be going on about this problem forever, and just have lots of conflict towards each other :p.

[Monica]

It's interesting to see how this authoritarian system has it's polar counterpart in the reactionary movements. Now we have both side, that seem like polar opposites, doing exactly the same thing - which is, don't use the other system, they are wrong/we are right.

Very true! I was stunned to hear an herbalist friend tell me she would never take her child to the ER for snakebite. (She lived in rattlesnake country.) She would handle it with herbal medicine.

I thought she was nuts! Or maybe she has Native American secrets I don't know about...

When I planned a home birth but ended up with an emergency C-section due to unforeseen complications, I felt embarrassed around some of my holistic friends. How crazy is that! I wouldn't feel that way now, but back then I did.

Emergency trauma is where conventional medicine shines! I am very grateful to modern medicine for saving my life and my child's life.

They just suck at treating degenerative (lifestyle-related) conditions.

[Tenet Nosce]

Now we have both side, that seem like polar opposites, doing exactly the same thing - which is, don't use the other system, they are wrong/we are right. This is not 'balancing' polarities, it's a creation of a catalyst that is maybe related to orange/yellow ray issue or blue/orange/green vMeme.

Exactly. That's the irony about all these instances of "polar opposites"- on the surface people think they are so different from those of the "opposite camp"- but under the hood they are basically the same and applying the same faulty thought process to the situation.

---

Very true! I was stunned to hear an herbalist friend tell me she would never take her child to the ER for snakebite. (She lived in rattlesnake country.) She would handle it with herbal medicine.

I thought she was nuts! Or maybe she has Native American secrets I don't know about...

There are herbal remedies for snakebites. I know an herbalist out in the Superstition Mountains that uses echinacea for snakebites. But personally, I would go with the anti-venom if available.

When I planned a home birth but ended up with an emergency C-section due to unforeseen complications, I felt embarrassed around some of my holistic friends. How crazy is that! I wouldn't feel that way now, but back then I did.

Glad to hear it turned out OK! I hope your holistic friends didn't give you too much flack. That wouldn't be very "holistic" of them seeing as how that word implies an "all of the above" approach!

Emergency trauma is where conventional medicine shines! I am very grateful to modern medicine for saving my life and my child's life.

Yes.

They just suck at treating degenerative (lifestyle-related) conditions.

Exactly. To their credit, I don't see too many Western docs claiming great success with these.

[Monica]

There are herbal remedies for snakebites. I know an herbalist out in the Superstition Mountains that uses echinacea for snakebites. But personally, I would go with the anti-venom if available.

Personally, I'd do both, and actually have done both! The anti-venom remedies I know of are Echinacea, Plantain, digestive enzymes, homeopathics, and Bluegreen Algae.

I used Plantain on a spider bite near my eye. I had a huge welt. I kept plastering mashed plantain on it and it showed rapid improvement, and after 3 days was gone.

My 130-lb. dog got bitten by a baby rattler (who have even more venom) hiding in a manhole cover when we were out for a walk. We were only a few houses down the street so I was able to get him home quickly. I poured out a handful of bluegreen algae tablets, thinking it would just help stabilize him until I got him to the emergency vet. (Naturally it was on the weekend!)

Normally, he would turn his nose up at it. The stuff is strong! But this time he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I dumped out more...he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I kept dumping more and he ended up eating almost a whole bottle of Algae!

Then I took him to the vet. (This was about 15 years ago and I didn't think to use Echinacea, though I did use that herbs for colds and flus.)

They were astonished! He definitely had gotten a strong dose of venom, and his face did swell up, but he never needed any anti-venom medication!

Later, I talked with a vet who uses bluegreen Algae in her practice. She told me it was the live enzymes in it that broke down the venom, and that her normal protocol was to use digestive enzymes in cases of snakebite.

I don't know...I just know it worked! He probably would have done fine without even going to the vet.

Still, until I get better educated about how to monitor a snakebite situation, I would go to the ER for follow-up...after taking a large amount of natural anti-venom remedies of course!

Tenet, do you happen to know what is in a medical anti-venom med? Just curious!

Glad to hear it turned out OK! I hope your holistic friends didn't give you too much flack. That wouldn't be very "holistic" of them seeing as how that word implies an "all of the above" approach!

Nah, they didn't. It was really more just me feeling self-conscious. Although, I did run into a 30-something mom at some event who had the audacity to tell me that no one should ever use medical intervention in such cases, but that mother and baby should be left to die...survival of the fittest!

I didn't know that person and didn't care to. That had to be one of the most extremist individuals I've ever met!

Exactly. To their credit, I don't see too many Western docs claiming great success with these.

Not sure what you mean by that. They continue to dole out meds, implying that the meds are viable 'treatments.' They continue to scoff at alternative methods.

[Monica]

There are herbal remedies for snakebites. I know an herbalist out in the Superstition Mountains that uses echinacea for snakebites. But personally, I would go with the anti-venom if available.

Personally, I'd do both, and actually have done both! The anti-venom remedies I know of are Echinacea, Plantain, digestive enzymes, homeopathics, and Bluegreen Algae.

I used Plantain on a spider bite near my eye. I had a huge welt. I kept plastering mashed plantain on it and it showed rapid improvement, and after 3 days was gone.

My 130-lb. dog got bitten by a baby rattler (who have even more venom) hiding in a manhole cover when we were out for a walk. We were only a few houses down the street so I was able to get him home quickly. I poured out a handful of bluegreen algae tablets, thinking it would just help stabilize him until I got him to the emergency vet. (Naturally it was on the weekend!)

Normally, he would turn his nose up at it. The stuff is strong! But this time he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I dumped out more...he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I kept dumping more and he ended up eating almost a whole bottle of Algae!

Then I took him to the vet. (This was about 15 years ago and I didn't think to use Echinacea, though I did use that herbs for colds and flus.)

They were astonished! He definitely had gotten a strong dose of venom, and his face did swell up, but he never needed any anti-venom medication!

Later, I talked with a vet who uses bluegreen Algae in her practice. She told me it was the live enzymes in it that broke down the venom, and that her normal protocol was to use digestive enzymes in cases of snakebite.

I don't know...I just know it worked! He probably would have done fine without even going to the vet.

Still, until I get better educated about how to monitor a snakebite situation, I would go to the ER for follow-up...after taking a large amount of natural anti-venom remedies of course!

Tenet, do you happen to know what is in a medical anti-venom med? Just curious!

Glad to hear it turned out OK! I hope your holistic friends didn't give you too much flack. That wouldn't be very "holistic" of them seeing as how that word implies an "all of the above" approach!

Nah, they didn't. It was really more just me feeling self-conscious. Although, I did run into a 30-something mom at some event who had the audacity to tell me that no one should ever use medical intervention in such cases, but that mother and baby should be left to die...survival of the fittest!

I didn't know that person and didn't care to. That had to be one of the most extremist individuals I've ever met!

Exactly. To their credit, I don't see too many Western docs claiming great success with these.

Not sure what you mean by that. They continue to dole out meds, implying that the meds are viable 'treatments.' They continue to scoff at alternative methods.

---

Confessions of a Pharmaceutical Drug Pusher

[Tenet Nosce]

Personally, I'd do both, and actually have done both! The anti-venom remedies I know of are Echinacea, Plantain, digestive enzymes, homeopathics, and Bluegreen Algae.

"All of the above"? Now that's holistic! I think it is interesting how that word has been co-opted by the natural health community to mean "anything BUT Western medicine."

I used Plantain on a spider bite near my eye. I had a huge welt. I kept plastering mashed plantain on it and it showed rapid improvement, and after 3 days was gone.

Hmm... plaintain fruit? I've heard of using Desert Plaintain (which is an herb) as a poultice. But... whatever works!

Normally, he would turn his nose up at it. The stuff is strong! But this time he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I dumped out more...he gobbled it up and wanted more! So I kept dumping more and he ended up eating almost a whole bottle of Algae!

It's always been fascinating to me how animals know which plants to eat, and will even change their preferences when they are ill.

Algae as anti-venom, eh? Interesting... I found...

Antilonomic effects of Brazilian brown seaweed extracts.

These finding indicate that marine algae may be used as antivenoms or may contribute to the development of compounds with antilonomic effects.

In vitro snake venom detoxifying action of some marine algae of Gulf of Mannar, south-east coast of India.

The extract of the brown seaweed Padina boergesenii and the red seaweed Hypnea valentiae was found to detoxify (in vitro) the venom of Naja nigricollis.

These are about brown algae, not blue-green algae (Which are actually cyanobactera. Confusing I know.) but still very interesting! I wonder if some of the toxic protective chemicals produced by marine life were the precursors to snake venom.

Later, I talked with a vet who uses bluegreen Algae in her practice. She told me it was the live enzymes in it that broke down the venom, and that her normal protocol was to use digestive enzymes in cases of snakebite.

Hmm... that's strange seeing as how some venoms are actually digestive enzymes themselves. Maybe it depends on the type of venom?

I also found: http://www.markusrothkranz.com/freebies/snakebite.pdf

Here he says: "Protease neutralizes protein (poison)." But that, of course, is a gross oversimplification, seeing as how:

1. Most proteins are not poison, and
2. All proteases are proteins.

Also, to my understanding, a great many poisonous substances actually work by interfering with enzyme proteins in the body.

Incidentally, this is also how most drugs work. That doesn't mean all drugs are poisons, but probably a great many are if taken in sufficient amounts.

Tenet, do you happen to know what is in a medical anti-venom med? Just curious!

I'm pretty sure they are just antibodies. Like some vaccines originally were before they started adding toxic preservatives and adjuvants. But you probably won't like how they are made, as I think it involves injecting an animal with the venom and then harvesting the antibodies from their blood.

Although, I did run into a 30-something mom at some event who had the audacity to tell me that no one should ever use medical intervention in such cases, but that mother and baby should be left to die...survival of the fittest!

I didn't know that person and didn't care to. That had to be one of the most extremist individuals I've ever met!

Hmm. My guess would be she was also a religious nut. (I would say "zealot" but I know we disagree over what that term means! )

Not sure what you mean by that. They continue to dole out meds, implying that the meds are viable 'treatments.' They continue to scoff at alternative methods.

I think a great many doctors are acutely aware of the limitations of Western medicine. I think a lot of them are sort of embarrassed with themselves, but don't know what else to do. Remember, an MD is legally bound by "standard of care." Actually, so is a licensed ND but there is a different "standard of care." Point being- MDs can't simply do whatever and expect to keep their license.

Remember, doctors are people too. So, they can be found all along the spiral of development. They're not all of the "authoritarian" ilk that believe that acknowledging limitation is a "sign of weakness." I think a lot of the younger ones are more evolved and recognize the limits of Western medical practice.

In my opinion, the biggest barrier to a fruitful union of Western and "alternative" medical approaches are the authoritarian types in all camps. Since they believe that their way is the "one true way" they refuse to consider another practitioner's point of view.

Interestingly, I would personally consider a refusal to consider another view as a display of a lack of compassion although I'm sure most of these authoritative types (especially the natural health ones) would consider themselves to have an abundance of compassion.

I think once 5SD becomes the dominant vibration in the population, these authoritarian types will either upgrade their view, fall by the wayside, or croak. I'm rather looking forward to it as there is much to teach/learn on all sides.

[Monica]

"All of the above"? Now that's holistic! I think it is interesting how that word has been co-opted by the natural health community to mean "anything BUT Western medicine."

Not so fast! It's important to distinguish all of the above in a traumatic, acute, emergency situation from all of the above in a chronic, degenerative disease condition.

For emergencies, allopathic medicine shines, so of course the smart thing to do is to utilize their skill. An herbalist or ND can't put back together someone who just had a car accident! Not even the most hardcore holistic people among us would forego a trip to the ER in such a situation! (Only the religious fanatics would.) Maybe for snakebite, but not for a car accident!

But, for degenerative diseases like cancer, arthritis, diabetes, etc. no way in hell would I ever do all of the above! In fact I think that's precisely why people often think alternative methods fail - because they tried to do the alternative route while doing toxic drugs too!

The methods are mutually exclusive; they work against each other. Chemo poisons the body and tears down the immune system, and is totally focused on killing. Whereas, alternative methods of healing cancer work by detoxifying the poisons that contributed to the cancer in the first place, building up the immune system, and allowing the body to balance itself; ie. it focuses on life.

Every day I hear about people who had a much easier time with the chemo - didn't get sick, hair didn't fall out, etc. - when the also drink our medically-certified ionized water at the same time. So I know for a fact that the water helps offset the toxic effects of the chemo.

But I also hear of people who already did the chemo/radiation and it failed, and they were given 2 months to live, were literally on their deathbeds, on a feeding tube, dying, left for dead by the medical establishment, and then they started drinking the water, got alkaline, and lo and behold 2 weeks later they're out of bed and 6 months later they are declared cancer-free!

These aren't 1-in-a-thousand stories, but the norm. I hear these stories frequently.

The very fact that they were dying after doing the conventional treatment, then healed with the alternative treatment - in this case the water, but there are of course others as well - shows that the 2 treatments weren't working together for a common goal! The alternative treatment is what healed them. In these cases, it's quite obvious that the allpathic treatment failed.

I contend that, across the board, the person would have gotten waaaaay better results - and for many that means they'd still be alive - if they had just gone the alternative route to begin with!

(Note: By allopathic treatments I'm referring to the barbaric methods of chemo/radiation, and other drug-based treatments, for other diseases as well. NOT referring to acute life-saving treatment of a sudden heart attack, or surgery to remove a mass...both of which have their place.)

My point is that I think all of the above works well in emergency situations, but is usually a detour, if not outright mistake, in chronic, degenerative disease conditions.

(Yes yes there are no mistakes, ultimately, from a spiritual perspective...but I'm talking about from a 3D perspective.)

Hmm... plaintain fruit? I've heard of using Desert Plaintain (which is an herb) as a poultice. But... whatever works!

The herb, not the fruit. (Really ridiculous that they have the same name!)

It's a very powerful and useful herb. It grows in most areas of the country, though its appearance can vary wildly. The Native Americans used it for snakebite. What you do is crush or chew the leaves, and apply the paste directly on the wound, as a poultice, then cover with a gauze, and leave it on for a few hours. Then do it again with fresh.

I also juiced the leaves when I had the spider bite. I hadn't heard of anyone juicing it before, but it made perfect sense to me! The young leaves are edible, though the older leaves can be quite tough.

Here's a thread about it:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...t=plantain

The only problem with relying on plantain as a first-aid treatment is that it's not available year-round. But, herbal lore says that if anyone has a need, the remedy will be right nearby, growing. We just have to ask the plant devas to direct us to it. (Herbal lore also says that if a weed is growing prolifically in our yard, then someone in the household needs it for medicine.)

It's always been fascinating to me how animals know which plants to eat, and will even change their preferences when they are ill.

True. But sometimes they can be stupid too. My Lab was a total glutton...his philosophy in life was "eat first, ask questions later." He once grabbed a foil-wrapped taco from my hands before I had a chance to unwrap it! Gobbled it up, foil and all!

Another time he gobbled up some radishes from a relish tray before he realized he didn't like radishes. You should have seen the look on his face!

His gluttony killed him in the end. He gobbled up a toad, and died.

(This is the same dog who survived the snakebite.)

The extract of the brown seaweed Padina boergesenii and the red seaweed Hypnea valentiae was found to detoxify (in vitro) the venom of Naja nigricollis.

These are about brown algae, not blue-green algae (Which are actually cyanobactera. Confusing I know.) but still very interesting!

I'm into various types of algae, but the blue-green in particular. They all have different properties. But yes, that is a good find! I hadn't read that before; I just intuitively gave my dog algae because...well I'd seen it work for so many other conditions, it just seemed to be the thing to do!

I wonder if some of the toxic protective chemicals produced by marine life were the precursors to snake venom.

I have no idea. I'll leave it to you to figure out why it works. I just know it does!

Hmm... that's strange seeing as how some venoms are actually digestive enzymes themselves. Maybe it depends on the type of venom?

I dunno. She did say she had gotten great results in her practice, but she might have been guessing/theorizing about the why.

I also found: http://www.markusrothkranz.com/freebies/snakebite.pdf

Here he says: "Protease neutralizes protein (poison)." But that, of course, is a gross oversimplification,

Markus tends to do that.

seeing as how:

1. Most proteins are not poison, and
2. All proteases are proteins.

Also, to my understanding, a great many poisonous substances actually work by interfering with enzyme proteins in the body.

Incidentally, this is also how most drugs work. That doesn't mean all drugs are poisons, but probably a great many are if taken in sufficient amounts.

Yes. Like with minerals; we need most minerals in tiny, trace amounts, and others in large amounts, but if certain minerals are taken in large amounts they become toxic.

I'm pretty sure they are just antibodies. Like some vaccines originally were before they started adding toxic preservatives and adjuvants. But you probably won't like how they are made, as I think it involves injecting an animal with the venom and then harvesting the antibodies from their blood.

Ah, makes sense.

Hmm. My guess would be she was also a religious nut.

Yes, she was a religious nut, but her religion was science. She was such a hardcore atheist that she thought the physical reality was the end-all, and humans were wrong to let such ridiculous things as love and compassion interfere with natural selection.

(I would say "zealot" but I know we disagree over what that term means! )

I think a great many doctors are acutely aware of the limitations of Western medicine. I think a lot of them are sort of embarrassed with themselves, but don't know what else to do. Remember, an MD is legally bound by "standard of care." Actually, so is a licensed ND but there is a different "standard of care." Point being- MDs can't simply do whatever and expect to keep their license.

Remember, doctors are people too. So, they can be found all along the spiral of development. They're not all of the "authoritarian" ilk that believe that acknowledging limitation is a "sign of weakness." I think a lot of the younger ones are more evolved and recognize the limits of Western medical practice.

In my opinion, the biggest barrier to a fruitful union of Western and "alternative" medical approaches are the authoritarian types in all camps. Since they believe that their way is the "one true way" they refuse to consider another practitioner's point of view.

Interestingly, I would personally consider a refusal to consider another view as a display of a lack of compassion although I'm sure most of these authoritative types (especially the natural health ones) would consider themselves to have an abundance of compassion.

I think once 5SD becomes the dominant vibration in the population, these authoritarian types will either upgrade their view, fall by the wayside, or croak. I'm rather looking forward to it as there is much to teach/learn on all sides.

Agreed on all points. Remembering that the doctors are human too, helps to have compassion for them. I don't feel compassion for the abstract, intangible, yet monstrous medical industry, but I certainly do feel compassion for the individual doctors, nurses, and other workers who are employed by that industry. It must be very difficult for them, to face the reality of the industry that is their livelihood. They went to school for so many years, worked so hard, and probably had a desire to help people...gosh, such a strong structure of belief that is now being challenged by the holistic community.

Much like the religious people, getting challenged by New Age thought, UFOs, science disproving their holy book, etc. It must be very scary for them! So it's no wonder so many dig in their heals and shut their minds...

I'm not sure what the mechanism is that keeps so many holistic practitioners closed to other products and treatments. You'd think they'd be more open, right? In some cases, yes, but in most cases, no. You are correct that many of them can be just as locked into their paradigm as the allopathic doctors.

It's usually the ones who have a vested interest in their particular line of products, or healing protocol. They just invested $20k in a Rife machine, or $10k in one of those energy testing devices, or devoted 5 weekends to Enzymatic Research seminars over the past year (and who are they to question Enzymatic Research? After all, they train the whole field of chiropractors, NDs, etc.!), or, the one I find particularly galling, given my business, is that they already bought another brand of ionizer machine, so they aren't open to being told that they are leaching toxic heavy metals into the water, and some of their patients might be dying who otherwise might have healed, had they had medical-grade water. Or, worse, they have been earning income from selling RO units for the past 10 years, or their reputation is on the line because they've been such a proponent for distilled water...their entire practice built on the premise that it is the best detoxifier and healthy for long-term use...how could they now admit they were wrong?

Come to think of it, now that I just made that list, all based on my own personal experience, I retract my earlier statement that alternative practitioners were generally less closed-minded than their allopathic counterparts. Now that I really think it through, I realize you are probably closer to the truth on that point than I was. Sure, these are all generalizations, but I'm actually finding a hard time thinking of alternative practitioners I've met who were readily receptive to new information.

That might be because who am I? I'm not in their league. I have no credentials, so why would they be open to anything I offer to them? Maybe they are more open to other practitioners. Still, it shows an 'authoritarian/expert' mentality, just as with the MDs. Despite being in a field that is largely unregulated, with advances being made all the time by people without conventional credentials (or any at all), they have still locked themselves into a box.

[Daydreamin]

Yes and no. You can cure cancer in those whose soul wish it to be cured. You cannot cure those whose soul do not wish it to be cured.

Pretty much agree. I have found out that some people do not want help and you can't save everyone. Only those who want to be helped. I have learned that trying to impose remedies for ailments normally is not received very well. But when they come to you then it's on!

But yes I fully believe cancer is curable and preventable. Half the problem may be disinformation we've been fed all these years. Things like skin cancer which I believe is more from putting all that sunscreen in your pores. And yes the whiter you are normally the more you put on. So it's a chicken and egg thing in a way.