How does Infinity simply 'become' aware.

[Shin'Ar]

Instead of trying to keep up with both GWV in Siren in different posts I am going to attempt to end this in one post if that is acceptable and not offending. After reading both of your posts thoroughly I am left asking these questions and I will then elaborate on why?

Is there a difference between love and Intelligence?
Intelligent Infinity in my thinking more describes intelligent energy than it does The Source. Would you say that there exists intelligence in unawareness?
If awareness is the state upon which creation begins, than would you acknowledge that in the state of unawareness, prior to awareness, that there is no intelligent energy?
Also would you acknowledge that if intelligence, results from awareness and will, than it should be evolving just like everything else that proceeds from that origin? In other words does intelligence gain in intelligence as it experiences and creates?

This "blackness" is the infinite potential of Intelligent Infinity. The reason why there is light is because "I" am the THOUGHT/FOCUS of it. This is what Love does: it creates light from infinite potential.

I believe this statement has cleared up the glitch between our thought processes. What you are saying is that where you /god exists, that very existence/focus/love simultaneously creates light, where otherwise there would be darkness, or absence of light. You are saying that because you are there, there is light. If you were not there then there would be an absence of light.

Does this not imply then that you are light, that your very presence is light. Would it be wrong for me to say that you/god are light.

And if you are infinitely there, then that light that results from your presence is also infinitely there.
And this leads to my line of thinking above where I ask you, ‘is there intelligence where there is no awareness. Because from what you are saying, light is the result of your existence, which is infinite therefore light is infinite.

So the question remains to define the state of existence so we can determine the point of origin of light.

And that seems to lie within this aspect of ‘awareness versus unawareness’ and exactly when intelligence begins.

I will have satisfied my own intelligent estimate of a method of knowing myself. And then, finally, I shall dissolve once more into the One and All, into Nothingness, into Infinity.

Here you seem to define The One, and Infinity, as ‘nothingness’. Hence, our differences, and the reason for what I believe to be our confusion. Which leads us to how GWV also defines it.


GWV,
It seems that what you are saying is that the makeup of the canvas is the void. But is that not something created? Would this not be more akin to that which science is now discovering as dark matter which they also allude to as the building material of the universe, or that which the universe is actually painted upon?
Is a galaxy that appears as a face, or eyes, or anything, not light in what you describe as blackness? How can you say that it is utter blackness if you see light, whether it is in the form of galaxies or not.
So I have to assume that you are speaking of this ‘background’ when you say void, and that only leads me to further ask, what is this background made of ‘if it is capable of containing matter/light’.
To that Siren will answer ‘potential’. What would be your answer?

Also I note that you both describe this nothingness as ever expanding. How does nothing expand? How does nothing do anything at all if it’s virtually nothing at all.

Ah and here it is as I read further,

the Creator is the void; you may say that peering into outer space is taking a gander at its innards, and the only light emanate from the galaxies or rather collectively from every celestial sphere contained in all galaxies. The void is the canvas of blackness, and it is ever expanding, and as it creates new "empty space", more creations manifest to fill that space, the arena of these creations being their own galaxies.

Once again you and Siren have clearly acknowledged the void as the actual creator, which makes sense given your accounting and your effort to describe it.

When I ask you to consider that your experience was not a point of creation but rather observing a point within creation, then now your expression of it begins to make sense because you pinpoint the origin as the void, as well as the void being its own origin. You are ‘covering all of the bases’ so to speak in an attempt to support your description of your experience.

So when I say that the origin is Infinite Light/The Source, to that you say the origin is the Void/Potential.
And so we say the same thing except that you seem to suggest that light did not exist in the void/origin until awareness/intelligence/energy, even though you declare that light was there purely as a result of your existence and awareness of that existence/ self.

And so once again we have to ask at what point does unawareness become intelligence/love/will from which flows the Light?

And in my thinking the void is not the background for all of this process/being, for that is simply creation in motion.
The void would be that which existed prior to awareness, the stillness and emptiness of any presence or intelligence. That would be the true plenum.

The void is not an intelligently creating background canvas which spawns light. That is simply creation in action, not the void.
The void would be the absence of anything at all taking place. The absence of thought, being, intelligence or awareness.

The void is unawareness of anything. That does not mean nothingness, it just means unawareness.

And this does fall into line with your thinking as you have both expressed that it is by ‘awareness’ that both the presence of light, and what you have acknowledged as the void, come into being.

It seems, just as I thought, that you do not go back far enough to the origin in your description of Creation.
That which you would call the void, is not thinking back to the previous state of unawareness, which is what I would acknowledge as the void.
This begins to make sense and It has vastly helped me to understand GWV’s experience a great deal better. I thank you both for your patience with me.

Lol, I am responding paragraph by paragraph as I read through these posts and GWV always amazes me as he seems to answer my thinking one step ahead of me.
As I read on he actually affirms that which I just stated above as he earlier responded with this remark.

I would actually suggest that I experienced the Creator as It 'currently' is, and am not placing any particular frame of time or estimating what phase I bore witness to. I do not believe that my experience breached the foetal stages of creation. I do know that I observed the One as it is at the moment which we are having this discussion, and I am content knowing that I have seen the original form of all forms of life, what observes through us all, and what precedes, sustains and follows all things.

And so we have our difference in that you acknowledge the Void as the Source/Creator, whereas I would acknowledge the void as that which exists in which the awareness of the source happens.
The paradox remains in that in both estimations we fall victim to how there can be anything, whether Source or void, where nothing was yet created.

This is what I call Infinite Mystery.
And it is what you evade by declaring the void as the creator.

It is like we are at the starting point of creation where you all take a step forward to see what happens next, and I am taking a step backward to see what was there before. And this is the nature of Thoth in that It is always seeking the Mystery as infinitely unattainable. Whereas, the Goddess simply seeks to create, being divinely connected, inseparably, to The Source as Its Intelligent energy.

Or in other words, there is Intelligent Energy/The Goddess , intelligent energy which cannot be separated as distinct from The Source, which energetically seeks to create as thought vibration and consciousness./awareness, and there is the field of consciousness created by that process which, because of its intelligent design, seeks to know its origin. This would be the field of Thoth, and all fields created by that process of being.
GWV, this is the difference between us. You are the energy seeing that which you have made, which is you. And I am the process of that energy seeking to know its origin. We are One process of Being.

And again you precede my thinking by answering my thoughts before I can write them where you say,

I see where the confusion is present. You're taking void to mean "nil" or containing nothing, while I'm using void as I would abyss or as an infinite sea of blackness. The One is the void and the Source, yet I'd assumed that you also were using the term Source to imply the state of infinity before it directed itself into manifesting the Creator.

No I would not imply that the void is nothingness, that seems to be what Siren suggests. I refuse to define the void as anything, it is Infinite Mystery.

Yes, the One to me is Infinity, which contains All that exists since the origin, which is why I often refer to It as The One Consciousness. Reference to It as the Source is as the source of all that results from intelligent energy becoming aware within a state of Infinite nature. That Infinite nature is the void and the Mystery, wherein you would say that when awareness takes place light is the result. Therefore do we acknowledge The Source as Infinite Light.

Here you say ,

Light may have been the essence of infinity pre-creation, but I will reiterate that the One Infinite Creator is itself not a vast being of light. As I've tried to clear up above, the only sources of light which I observed were those of the galaxies which littered Its form, a form which is an abyss of immense proportions. Is what we consider outer space made of light? We can account for much, much more darkness comprising space than of light, which largely emanates from stars, planets, suns. Before those planetary bodies gave off light, they were formed in the void of outer space through natural processes. Remember, that we exist within the Creator at this very moment. We are Its cells. What we call outer space should be properly considered "inner space", the inner space of the Creator. It is the container of the cosmos. Before those planetary bodies gave off light, they were formed in the void of outer space through natural processes

You seem to say here that the only light that exists is that given off by the cosmic bodies, and yet it is your premise that these were created by light.

Shin'Ar, your perception is such that it encompasses a much more intricate understanding of the fluidity and sublimity of being which surpasses the perspectives of this veiled illusion. You see all as one fluid wave and rather than accounting for each individual ripple as appearing and coalescing back into the ocean, prefer to understand that the beginning and ending of all ripples occurs in a sea which knows neither and experiences only progression.

This statement would be accurate GWV. My understanding as you know is the result of my field and its information, as well as the guidance of ‘my gods/higher fields’. I cannot comprehend a Mystery of Infinity being able to know its beginning or its future Mystery because that is also infinite, and therefore it can only know its process of being.
However it would be inaccurate to say that I am not accounting for the fragmented consciousness of temporal experience, for that is what we experience now, and that is what I define clearly as the Process of Being..

Ultimate simultaneity doesn't entail that events are played out side by side, such as a marathon and the viewing of a movie by the same being in parallel lives are happening at once, although this is so. It more properly refers to the notion that every individual moment that occurs, even with our perception of linear time and a distinct passage of time linking one event to the next, exist within the eternal moment which the Creator experiences. For instance, I perceive myself typing out this response from you. From my awareness, this is a specific event which is happening at a "different time" than the dinner I had last night. I can choose to section off each experience as "dinner beginning, dinner ending" or "post beginning, post ending", although this would be silly. I do not divide up each experience, as it is the same awareness undergoing each experience, and each experience befalls one continuum of awareness. We are thrust into individual happenings with their own set and setting. Yet, if linear time is only an illusion, why do we experience events in a certain sequence? We do, and this is ephemeral truth for us, because we are currently experiencing lower awareness, where we directly experience ourselves as temporary forms of flesh, not grand beings of light.
From the awareness of the Creator, the birth and death of our specific current incarnations has happened already. The specific moments which any of us graduated school, began a career, and signed up to the Bring4th.org forums, are all experiences which the Creator is experiencing simultaneously. It is experiencing them simultaneously because while it may have been "different people" having these experiences at "different times", It is every person undergoing every experience, and all time is experienced by It. It is not bound by any such restraints. Past, present, and future, are not concepts which have any bearing on Its complete awareness. All linearity is within it, occurring simultaneously, and the trillions upon trillions of different experiences happening every moment in the Creation are known to It with immediacy and ease.

I would agree with all of this except when you or anyone attempts to include the future within that simultaneous experience of the One process. Simultaneity can be described as One experience of the process taking place and unfolding into Mystery, but it cannot be described as including an ‘already completed future’. When that is added to the description it redefines Infinity as something that has an end and a beginning. And I cannot get away from that fact by any other supposition proposed here.
I know that you both must tire of this exhausting process of thought but I continue to hand on your every word looking for anything that helps to clarify my own thinking. That has already been accomplished in this process and I thank you both for your tolerance and effort.

This is the reason I remain in this community.