(11-07-2011, 01:13 PM)Icaro Wrote: The point in which you continue to prove the other wrong in a long discussion, you are no longer asserting wisdom, but you are dominating the other with orange assertion of the self. You have claimed superiority, and you do not allow the other to be themselves. The argument is no longer centered upon wisdom, but it has turned into a battle of "I'm right you're wrong". Recognizing this is easy, because within you it is felt by absolutely needing to correct the other. If there is resistance to letting the other go along misinformed and own their own opinion, you are reflecting non-acceptance and your motivations are simply self-fulfilling.
yes.
we should instead all 'be ourselves' in an environment in which everyone channels 500 faced 6 horned unicorns and brown interdimensional butterflies, which say that the world has splitted into 500 separate timelines, spanning 6 sub-paraoctaves in the name of lord jesus ezekiah, projecting our holographic realities to make everything a reality and positive negative and negative actually positive if need be, while complementing our conveniences so much that we would not like to hear the answer 'no' or 'you are wrong'.
so, we should not dare challenge people who validate/invalidate things throughout 2 pages when they see the need, and when they see the need to do the opposite, and, * gasp * god forbid that we may insist that they are wrong in their blatant turnaboutness.
why ?
because, doing as such is 'compassionate'. based on the local preferences of a percentage out of a 350 million population of a particular locale.
...........
but then again, there is no point to attempting to share any kind of information in such an environment. everyone can talk anything about anything they want, regardless of how nonsense or misleading they may be, ignoring/refusing/denying any kind of common truth that god forbid may be used in weeding out valuable and usable information.
of course, numerous among you again switched the 'personal truth' switches at the point you read the preceding sentences, and immediately invoked the 'how dare you question my truth' leave aside 'how dare you insist on questioning my truth' knee-jerk reactions again.
an environment in which people gather to exchange/discuss/learn/discover advanced information, leave aside study them, and god forbid something that is important, fundamental, delicate and at times potentially dangerous in many ways like spiritual information, is not a suitable place for people who are seeking self-realization, appeasement, validation through the 'personal truths' they have taken on, regardless of how right, or how wrong they may be. actually this goes valid for any place of learning/exchange. knowledge is not for self-worth and appeasement. people who are afraid of their self truth being questioned or called wrong, should not embark in spiritual voyages, leave aside sit with other people to discuss anything about them.
it doesnt matter whether the distaste for being wrong, or being unable to validate self-worth/value/strength through 'personal truths' that are used to identify with, is conveniently translated into form of demanding 'compassion' through definitions conveniently created from local social political correctness. it is still the same act. if something is wrong, it is wrong continually, until the situations surrounding it changes. if that does not happen throughout the course of an internet discussion (it very rarely does), it means that something that was wrong 2 pages ago, flying in the face of basic spiritual information which everyone is SUPPOSEDLY subscribing to, remains wrong for the remainder of the discussion. and no - 'reinterpreting' the basic spiritual information that everyone uses as common ground, PERSONALLY, does not help either - its just the practice of manufacturing 'personal truth' as convenient. there has been a lot of examples of that throughout a lot of discussions here.
there is endless amount of spiritual material that is channeled for serving the people who have such needs. from bartholomew to silver birch, these offer the precise remedy to self worth and validation necessities.
going after a material which talks about archetypes of mind, structures of pyramids, and then expecting love/worth/self validation over and for PERSONAL 'truths', is, wrong. someone who needs self validation/love/worth from outside, should not pursue advanced spiritual information.
advanced spiritual information is no joke, and no comfort/sunday reading. however, thanks to the modern popularization of spiritual material, a lot of people do that.
i am sure some of you will again loop back and pose the question 'how dare he claim that he knows who is for comfort, who is for real here' the moment you read the above paragraph. posing of that question in your mind, after the paragraphs you read above, would be an obvious reason to conclude what i have concluded - for, the answer to that already have been present in the above paragraphs. if you still are confused what i expressed in regard to this at this particular point, just go back to the earlier paragraphs and read again.
(11-07-2011, 04:52 PM)yossarian Wrote: So I'm assuming that in Turkey you don't around telling people "you dont know $hit"
The American polite version is just longer. The Japanese polite version is even longer than the US version.
Basically the American version is something like:
"I don't see things that way, and if it's okay with you I'd like to show you a conflicting idea that I believe could benefit you. That idea is <blah blah blah>"
In Japan it would be something like:
"I am humbly honoured to speak with you, and glad to hear your views. Are you acquainted with the alternative explanation that <blah blah blah>"
If you are engaging in impolite behaviour on purpose it's not a surprise that you offend people. It isn't necessarily linked to their ideas being threatened, because it could easily just be that by not conforming to the standards of politeness you are insulting them.
I mean based on your statement that it's considered polite to say "you are wrong" in Turkish, it sounds like you just aren't respecting the politeness norms of the English audience you're speaking to on this forum.
By the way, as an English speaker, it is my opinion that writing in lower case with poor grammar and sentence construction communicates to English audiences that you don't value their time. This is often forgiven when the speaker is obviously ESL, but that doesn't make it easy.
If you just use proper capitalization you would instantly seem more respectful. Replacing the "you are wrong" statements with something more polite would also go a long way.
At the end of the day you're right that people identified with their ideas are threatened by conflicting ideas. Can't help with that. But by failing to use the polite forms, your message is not just literally "you are wrong" your message also includes the statement "and I have no respect for you, you are inferior to me, and you aren't valuable enough to be treated politely."
We live in a hierarchical society here in the Anglosphere. If you communicate to someone that they are lower on the hierarchy than you and they should obey you for that reason they are not going to feel good. This is just reality and has nothing to do with them identifying with their views. Based on your most recent posts I've concluded that your issue on this forum is that you know the polite forms of English and choose not to use them, offending all the Anglo cultured people with your rudeness. That makes a lot sense. Adding the natural threat they perceive when being corrected just makes it worse.
bir bok bilmiyorum
should i respond to your rant, after the last sentence you have typed - after ALL you have railed about grammar nazizm, polite versions of this, that in english, in japanese, and so on ? contradicting all of what you have railed with you last sentence ?
why should i mop up the above contradictions for you in all that angst .