So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?

[zenmaster]

I don't get your differentiation between 'actual' and 'real'. It seems you are trying to make a distinction, but you really aren't doing so.

There is not an actual crown chakra. Applying the concept has an actual effect thus making it real. You will never find the crown chakra. It doesn't exist outside the conceptual persona that makes up what you are now.

The Council of Saturn isn't actually there, on the planet Saturn, or the rings of Saturn. It is a concept pertaining to the reality that the what-you-are envisions for itself.

Wisdom is a concept a human applies to why the matter known as an apple is an apple rather than a gecko.

@Azrael. I can only tell you once more- I have believed until I was blue in the face. The symbols are not the actual reality, they are for learning purposes.

---

@zenmaster. Believing you talk to angels during meditation is the same as hoping for disclosure to knock at your front door. Which makes me surprised at your words. Everyone, of course, draws a line somewhere.

Think you got the @'s switched. There are different aspects of one reality (e.g. physical, empirical, emotional, mental, historical, symbolic, mythical, ethical, spiritual, etc). Each aspect has its own limitations, context and practicality. Oftentimes (especially on these forums) we erroneously attempt to over extend one aspect at the expense of another or we may confuse one aspect with another, but each can have its own, very real, viability. Each aspect can bridge and support another - i.e. mental and philosophical, philosophical and physical or philosophical and ethical, or emotional and physical, or mythical and spiritual.

But it is important to understand the physical is by no means a primary reality (it may only seem so due to our constant dependency on that aspect due to survival concerns). So when we say that something doesn't exist 'there', what are we really saying? We are trying to distinguish between these aspects and within one aspect in order that their utility can be recognized.