Law of Attraction as Viewed Thru the Law of One

[Ali Quadir]

Individuality is an illusion.

Only in the sense that the individuality of the shell, albumen and yolk of an egg are illusion, or in the sense that the individual physical nature of earth, ocean and sky are illusion. I don't see this as illusion, really; I believe the perception of individuality is valid, on many levels, regardless of whether there is acknowledgment or awareness of the whole. This may not resonate with you, and it's ok with me that you perceive individuality as an illusion; but 'illusion' does not define my reality. Different, equally valid perceptions.

I'm not calling your experience illusion. I would not dare I only called individuality an illusion. It is true like you say that there is a thing we can point at that we can call an individual. But it's not true that this individual is so separated from others that it would be able to exist truly isolated from those others.

The shell of the egg is after all defined by the egg. If it weren't it would not be able to surround the egg as well as it does.

The point imho is to just have fun and adventure. In whatever way you consider most resembling your highest joy and ideals.

Again, this may be the point for you, but it's only a small portion of the point for me. I don't think it's realistic to attempt to apply such statements to everyone, when you only know for sure that they're true for you. My highest joy and ideals encompass more than fun and adventure, and the emphasis placed on those things are much lower on my personal priorities list. Again, both valid perceptions, but not the same, and certainly neither can be applied universally.

I thought I made a pretty "catch all" statement here..

What do you think your highest joy and ideals encompass that does not fall under the category of fun and adventure?

We have some very dissimilar (but equally valid) ways of perceiving things... which is also evident in your perception of 'the point' having an addictive quality. This is simply not true for me. And I'll say again that I should have used the term "experience" instead of "learn" in terms of my purpose here. I am here (and anywhere else I might be at any given time) for the "experience" -- all of it, not just the fun, adventurous stuff. Some of the things I've experienced in this lifetime could not, by any stretch, be described with those terms. "Valuable" is a good descriptor, though.

Do you wish for these experiences? Or would you wish to avoid them?

I'm asking because if they're desired, then perhaps there's more joy in them than at first sight is to be expected. Maybe not in the moment of the experience, but certainly afterwards.

I live on this planet too. I know "good" and "bad" experiences too. If you go on vacation you'll end up with sunburn, jellyfish bites and blisters... Is that a reason not to go?

I've been rejected and picked on as a child. I've been beaten. I've lost loved ones. I've had my heart broken. And I've made mistakes that hurt both me and my loved ones. All in all it wasn't too bad. And I'd do my life again even if it means experiencing the same things again.

If it gets bad we might lose morale and call our experiences bad and equate them to suffering.. But when you're suffering in my opinion you fell for the trap of believing you're this thing that suffers as opposed to the totality in which there is suffering.

I just want to put in an alternative interpretation.

I just believe that as a wanderer.. My path is to be here. To be human. Including all the flaws that come with it..

This is good. That's part of what makes discussion such a wonderful thing (us non-individuals who have very different POVs, hee). Where I get stuck is when things are stated as, "it's not this, it's that" in a way that semantically denies the validity of the experience and understanding of others, stating one perception of spiritual reality as true over another. Yes. It does often come down to semantics, but I'd posit that there are underlying perceptions that influence how thoughts are phrased (often in the form of an emotional sense of 'right' versus 'wrong'), and it's telling when a statement of perception (or experience, etc) semantically invalidates perceptions that differ.

I agree to a certain level. We're all entitled to our opinion and our own interpretation of experience... However, I don't think we allowed to invent facts. I'm not saying you do this. I'm just saying that the liberty to believe whatever you want to believe free from other peoples opinion does not extend into objective measurable reality.

There are people who believe for example that all muslims are extremists. There are people who believe all religion is inherently violent. There are people who believe that dark skinned people are lazy. There are people who believe that the moon landings never happened. They're wrong. No matter what their subjective experience says. They're wrong.

I have no difficulty stating that people are wrong and giving the reasoning behind why this is. I would hope others would do the same for me. There was a time I believed like many these days do that spirituality is somehow above natural law... However it's not, it's part of it. Meaning that spiritual claims that contradict natural law are unmasked every day and the believers in such claims are ridiculed and proven wrong.

This is not to say that spiritual beliefs that are not provable by science are wrong. I mean to say that spiritual beliefs that are contradicted by reality could very well be wrong no matter how noble or resonant they feel.

And I can't tell how my tone of voice is coming across here, so I want to clarify that I'm not writing out of anger or frustration. I'm actually enjoying this exchange, and - like I said - I can't tell how it sounds outside of my head. My intent is to make some distinctions regarding the validity of differing perceptions/experiences and how they're stated (as one's own, or as applying to all). This is, to me, a distinction that goes deeper than simple semantics.

I have felt absolutely no ill will from you. You have your own opinion. And that's perfectly right. Likely if we explore opinions a bit further we'll figure out that we're not that different, we just started our reasoning from a different vantage point.

Please understand that the same goes for me. I can be direct in saying what I believe. But even if I state that something is exactly how I say it is. It's just a short step for you to add "But that's what he believes", do not hesitate to do so. I do that all the time. I'm not perfect. I don't intend or pretend to be. I would appreciate it if everyone would just pick from my words what they like and ignore or explain what they don't like. Lets not get defensive about it. It's perfectly all right to disagree with Ali.. My best friends do this all the time.

My narcissism is strong enough not to be bothered by that